Author Topic: Age vs VO2max  (Read 970861 times)

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vag

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Re: Age vs Vertical
« Reply #3555 on: June 07, 2018, 07:05:26 am »
+1
6 June 2018

Bodyweight@session : ?
Soreness :  glutes, quads, lats, chest, all minor
Injuries/aches : none

-RUN 2.5km ( ~6'20''/km pace )
-Walk 500m
C1a: Sprint 300m @ 80-90%
C1b: Walk 200m
C1 info: 4 rounds
-RUN 2km ( ~7'/km pace )

Decided to shorten my interval distance to 300m and walking recovery to 200m ( instead of 500-500 ) . Seems like a good choice, this is more sprint for me, i can go 100% on the entire duration, 500m was above my abilities. Might bring 500s back when i master the 300s.
6'20'' pace was very easy at warmup distance. Also last 2 km were a little faster than 7'/km and totally relaxed despite being right after the intervals and 5 km total in my back already, which is awesome!
Looks like everything is improving. Good shit.

TOTAL : 7km in 48'13''


Target training paces (min/km), calculated from 5K PR 22:49 :
Easy run : 5:48
Tempo run : 4:50
VO2-max run :4:21
Speed form run : 4:02

---

it's the biggest trick in the run game.. go slow to go fast. it doesn't make sense until it smacks you in the face and you're like ....... wtf?

vag

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Re: Age vs Vertical
« Reply #3556 on: June 08, 2018, 04:43:50 am »
+1
7 June 2018

Bodyweight@session : 87,5kg, season high
Soreness : glutes more today, chest & lats still but barely
Injuries/aches : none

RDL ( tempo 1:1:4 ):
10@20kg
8@60kg
8@80kg
8@95kg ( +5 kg )
8@105kg ( +5 kg )
-Very strong, awesome form & control, love it.

DB LUNGES ( tempo 1:1:3 ):
-Skipped again, glutes are fried.

UPRIGHT BB ROW ( tempo 1:1:4 ):
10@30kg
10@30kg
10@30kg
10@30kg
-Much much better control. Missed the tempo only at last 2 reps of last set, previous time i was losing it in all sets around rep 7.

DUMBELL LATERAL RAISES: ( new exercise )
12@10kg each hand ( +2 kg each hand )
12@10kg each hand ( +2 kg each hand )
12@10kg each hand ( +2 kg each hand )
-Very hard. Kept form solid but could barely do that.

BICEPS Z-BAR CURL ( tempo 1:1:4 ):
10@32,5kg ( +2,5 kg )
10@32,5kg ( +2,5 kg )
10@32,5kg ( +2,5 kg )
8@32,5kg ( +2,5 kg ) , ( -2 reps )
-Very strong, expected to lose more reps from upping weight.

TRICEPS PUSH DOWN ( tempo 1:1:4 ):
10@150lbs
10@150lbs
10@150lbs
10@150lbs
-I don't feel i can up here, so i focus on making form and control even more strict.

Very strong day.
Target training paces (min/km), calculated from 5K PR 22:49 :
Easy run : 5:48
Tempo run : 4:50
VO2-max run :4:21
Speed form run : 4:02

---

it's the biggest trick in the run game.. go slow to go fast. it doesn't make sense until it smacks you in the face and you're like ....... wtf?

vag

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Re: Age vs Vertical
« Reply #3557 on: June 12, 2018, 08:45:38 am »
+4
Mass log update:

8 June 2018

RUN 7.5km in 51minutes:9seconds

-Kept it comfortable. I was hoping this comfy run would end up having average pace around 6'30''/km. It was a bit slower, but still faster than 7'/km.
I am more than ok with it, since this run was lifetime distance  :personal-record: and lifetime duration :personal-record:





9 June 1028

Bodyweight@session : ~87.5kg, season high
Soreness : none
Injuries/aches : none

HALF SQUAT ( tempo 1:1:4 ):
10@20kg
8@60kg
8@90kg ( +10 kg )
8@105kg ( +5 kg )
8@115kg ( +5 kg )
8@125kg ( +5 kg )
-Very nice.

DIPS ( tempo 1:1:4 ):
10@BW
10@BW
10@BW ( +1 rep )
10@BW ( +1 rep )
10@BW ( +1 rep )
-Very very strong.

CHINUP GRIP LAT-PULLDOWN ( tempo 1:1:4 ):
10@120lbs
10@140lbs ( +10 lbs )
10@160lbs ( +20 lbs )
10@150lbs
10@160lbs
DEAD HANG CHINUPS ( tempo 1:1:4 ):
7@BW
7@BW
-Same change with pullups, switching to the real thing. Slow tempo is a killer here too.

DB SHRUGS ( tempo 1:1:4 ):
Skipped, may dump them, RDL + upright rows already stress traps enough.



11 June 2018

Bodyweight@session : ~86.5kg , weirdly light
Soreness : none
Injuries/aches : none

ATG SQUAT ( tempo 1:1:4 ):
8@20kg
8@40kg
8@60kg
8@70kg
6@80kg
-Top set still too hard, bar is not heavy but legs die from TUT at a high RM percentage.

INCLINE BENCH PRESS ( tempo 1:1:4 ):
10@20kg
10@40kg
10@50kg
10@50kg ( +2 reps )
10@50kg ( +2 reps )
-Good improvement for 2nd time.

WIDE GRIP LAT PULLDOWN ( tempo 1:1:4 ):
10@120lbs
10@140lbs
10@160lbs
DEAD HANG PULLUPS ( tempo 1:1:4 ):
8@BW ( +1 rep )
6@BW
-Slow eccentric pullups still a killer.

Target training paces (min/km), calculated from 5K PR 22:49 :
Easy run : 5:48
Tempo run : 4:50
VO2-max run :4:21
Speed form run : 4:02

---

it's the biggest trick in the run game.. go slow to go fast. it doesn't make sense until it smacks you in the face and you're like ....... wtf?

adarqui

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Re: Age vs Vertical
« Reply #3558 on: June 13, 2018, 12:24:55 am »
+2
PAUSED STANDING CALF RAISE MACHINE ( tempo 1:2:4 ):
-Forgot. I notice that now that I am running regularly, I am slowly losing interest in working out calves. I feel they get a very good stimulus already.

seems kind of natural to ditch them when running/sprinting. I for one, seem to always end up hurting them easier when I do both. Calf raises seem to alter something, or just fatigue them more (which is odd when you think about it), just making them easier to tweak, or make achilles/ankle achier etc. dno it's weird.

congrats on that distance PR!

vag

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Re: Age vs Vertical
« Reply #3559 on: June 13, 2018, 05:59:06 am »
+1
12 June 2018

Bodyweight@session : ?
Soreness :  quads, hamstrings, abductors
Injuries/aches : none

-RUN 2.5km @ 13'45'' ,  :personal-record: by 17 seconds. ( 2km split: 11'9'' ,  :personal-record: by 5 seconds )
-Walk 500m
C1a: Sprint 300m
C1b: Walk 200m
C1 info: 3 rounds
-JOG 500m

2.5 km was not 100% but pretty close to that. Very happy with the PRs. But then the sprints were too hard, felt destroyed after third round so jogged 500m to relax and called it a day.
Those 300m sprints are done in a fashion i didn't mention: I can alternate gradient, the even ones are uphill and the odd ones are downhill.
So during the downhill second one I got a speed PR, 16.8km/h ( previous was 16.4 lol )  :personal-record:
BTW does anyone have objections towards downhill sprints? It is not steep, I am talking about 10-15m of drop in 300m, with plenty of room to break slowly.

Total : 5km in 32'44''


« Last Edit: June 13, 2018, 06:00:43 am by vag »
Target training paces (min/km), calculated from 5K PR 22:49 :
Easy run : 5:48
Tempo run : 4:50
VO2-max run :4:21
Speed form run : 4:02

---

it's the biggest trick in the run game.. go slow to go fast. it doesn't make sense until it smacks you in the face and you're like ....... wtf?

Mikey

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Re: Age vs Vertical
« Reply #3560 on: June 13, 2018, 08:33:22 am »
+1
PAUSED STANDING CALF RAISE MACHINE ( tempo 1:2:4 ):
-Forgot. I notice that now that I am running regularly, I am slowly losing interest in working out calves. I feel they get a very good stimulus already.

seems kind of natural to ditch them when running/sprinting. I for one, seem to always end up hurting them easier when I do both. Calf raises seem to alter something, or just fatigue them more (which is odd when you think about it), just making them easier to tweak, or make achilles/ankle achier etc. dno it's weird.

congrats on that distance PR!

Calf raises are good for rehab but that's where it stops for me. I never train calves. I think they get enough stimulation just through everyday activity and running/training. 
"IMO, It didn't happen if it's not on vid/official"- adarqui

It's easier to keep up than it is to catch up...

adarqui

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Re: Age vs Vertical
« Reply #3561 on: June 13, 2018, 03:22:09 pm »
+1
12 June 2018

Bodyweight@session : ?
Soreness :  quads, hamstrings, abductors
Injuries/aches : none

-RUN 2.5km @ 13'45'' ,  :personal-record: by 17 seconds. ( 2km split: 11'9'' ,  :personal-record: by 5 seconds )
-Walk 500m
C1a: Sprint 300m
C1b: Walk 200m
C1 info: 3 rounds
-JOG 500m

2.5 km was not 100% but pretty close to that. Very happy with the PRs. But then the sprints were too hard, felt destroyed after third round so jogged 500m to relax and called it a day.
Those 300m sprints are done in a fashion i didn't mention: I can alternate gradient, the even ones are uphill and the odd ones are downhill.
So during the downhill second one I got a speed PR, 16.8km/h ( previous was 16.4 lol )  :personal-record:
BTW does anyone have objections towards downhill sprints? It is not steep, I am talking about 10-15m of drop in 300m, with plenty of room to break slowly.

Total : 5km in 32'44''



sick! good stuff.

Quote
BTW does anyone have objections towards downhill sprints? It is not steep, I am talking about 10-15m of drop in 300m, with plenty of room to break slowly.

i'd rather sprint them uphill... :D yea i'm not much of a fan of downhill overspeed. It's really intense. I'd rather hit that same decline, as an incline, and bulldoze my way up it. I feel like that is 10000x safer & actually more effective. My 2cents on it!




PAUSED STANDING CALF RAISE MACHINE ( tempo 1:2:4 ):
-Forgot. I notice that now that I am running regularly, I am slowly losing interest in working out calves. I feel they get a very good stimulus already.

seems kind of natural to ditch them when running/sprinting. I for one, seem to always end up hurting them easier when I do both. Calf raises seem to alter something, or just fatigue them more (which is odd when you think about it), just making them easier to tweak, or make achilles/ankle achier etc. dno it's weird.

congrats on that distance PR!

Calf raises are good for rehab but that's where it stops for me. I never train calves. I think they get enough stimulation just through everyday activity and running/training. 

yea.

vag

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Re: Age vs Vertical
« Reply #3562 on: June 15, 2018, 04:55:55 am »
+1
^^^ Agreed with both about calf raises. Not sure about downhill sprints, it is very convenient because the long straight is 500m, so repeating 300-run-200-walk uphill and downhill is ideal. Might keep in mind to do the downhill run buffered.



14 June 2018

Bodyweight@session : 86kg, whaaaat?
Soreness : some hamstrings
Injuries/aches : none

RDL ( tempo 1:1:4 ):
10@20kg
8@60kg
8@80kg
8@95kg
8@105kg
-Hamstrings were sore, didn't want to advance, this feels like a good weight scheme to stay for a while.

UPRIGHT BB ROW ( tempo 1:1:4 ):
10@30kg
10@30kg
10@30kg
10@30kg
-Awesome control, could have upped.

DUMBBELL LATERAL RAISES:
12@10kg each hand
12@10kg each hand
12@10kg each hand
-Much stronger than last time.

BICEPS Z-BAR CURL ( tempo 1:1:4 ):
10@32,5kg
10@32,5kg
10@32,5kg
10@32,5kg ( +2 reps )
-Very strong, amazed myself.

TRICEPS PUSH DOWN ( tempo 1:1:4 ):
10@150lbs
10@150lbs
10@150lbs
10@150lbs
-Very slowly improving, not ready to up though.

Very strong, especially at arms.
Target training paces (min/km), calculated from 5K PR 22:49 :
Easy run : 5:48
Tempo run : 4:50
VO2-max run :4:21
Speed form run : 4:02

---

it's the biggest trick in the run game.. go slow to go fast. it doesn't make sense until it smacks you in the face and you're like ....... wtf?

LBSS

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Re: Age vs Vertical
« Reply #3563 on: June 15, 2018, 07:45:06 am »
+1
run up the hill instead. unambiguously good for you, less risk of injury.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

black lives matter

vag

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Re: Age vs Vertical
« Reply #3564 on: June 15, 2018, 11:40:44 am »
+4
i always run the hill up. The thing is, the 'hill' is 500m long. So when i was doing 500m sprints, i would run it up and then walk back down to start point (bottom ) for recovery, i never sprinted downhill.
Now that i am doing 300m, it is very convenient ( there are roads at exactly 300m up AND down, plus the times are great , ~1 min run - 2 mins walk ) to go like:
-Run 300m uphill
-Walk the remaining 200m uphill
-Reached top
-Run 300m downhill.
-Walk the remaining 20mm downhill
-Reached bottom.
-Repeat.
Of course i can just use the first 300m section and walk it back down and repeat forever. But i also like that now every iteration is a square number ( 500m ). but that's just my stats&maths OCD... oh well , let's sum it up: i asked advice for downhill sprints, you guys jumped in to go against them so it is pretty clear that i should just shut up and ditch them, end of story. :D :D :D
« Last Edit: June 15, 2018, 11:43:16 am by vag »
Target training paces (min/km), calculated from 5K PR 22:49 :
Easy run : 5:48
Tempo run : 4:50
VO2-max run :4:21
Speed form run : 4:02

---

it's the biggest trick in the run game.. go slow to go fast. it doesn't make sense until it smacks you in the face and you're like ....... wtf?

vag

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Re: Age vs Vertical
« Reply #3565 on: June 18, 2018, 07:53:45 am »
+1
16 June 2018

Bodyweight@session : ~85.5kg, AM and unfed but WTF, too low
Soreness : none
Injuries/aches : none

HALF SQUAT ( tempo 1:1:4 ):
HANG POWER CLEAN ++ PUSH PRESS:
5++5@20kg
5++5@30kg
5++5@40kg
5++3@45kg
3++1@50kg
3++0@55kg
3++0@55kg
1++0@60kg
5++5@40kg
-Bored of half squats, decided to bring back o-lifts.
Sooooo much more fun, love them. Tempted to ditch normal squats too, or skip volume, i am tired of legs being stressed from weights all the time.
This ++ denotes that at the same rep i am cleaning and then i am pushpressing it, not 5 cleans and then 5 presses.

DIPS ( tempo 1:1:4 ):
10@BW
10@BW
10@BW
10@BW
10@BW
-I feel i can advance to weighted now.

CHINUP GRIP LAT-PULLDOWN ( tempo 1:1:4 ):
10@120lbs
10@140lbs
10@160lbs
DEAD HANG CHINUPS ( tempo 1:1:4 ):
8@BW ( +1 rep )
7@BW
-Controlled eccentric chins/pulls are a nightmare. Hits the back damn hard though!

DB SHRUGS ( tempo 1:1:4 ):
-Bye bye shrugs, 9 sets of cleans are enough.



17 June 2018

Bodyweight@session : ???
Soreness : lats mostly, some deltoids and traps too but minor
Injuries/aches : none

RUN 5km @ 29'41''

Second time in my life going under 30'. Actually just 50'' away from my PR , yet it was not a max effort 5K, I didn't even warmup. I was going uptempo, but actively buffering a bit. Only pushed it maximally at the last 750m as you can see on the graph too because i saw i was able to break 30' so i went for it. Not bad at all. Now gotta reduce smoking, i have relaxed a bit too much with it.





In other news, as I mentioned in LBSS's journal earlier, i intend to run a re-composition for a while. Nothing too fancy or obsessed. So for diet I will be reducing carbs, except from the weight days post-workout. I will be trying to break even ( TDEE-vs-food ) or even on a surplus on weight days but with most of the calories and carbs post-workout, while being on a deficit all other days. Training wise i will try to have as less missed running days as possible. Must change my mindset to make running days more important than lifting days, but i am finding difficulties to do that, i want my 3 gym days per week. Summer is also an enemy, increased social life, less free time, more alcohol and cigar smoke in my system. Oh well, ill keep grinding.
Target training paces (min/km), calculated from 5K PR 22:49 :
Easy run : 5:48
Tempo run : 4:50
VO2-max run :4:21
Speed form run : 4:02

---

it's the biggest trick in the run game.. go slow to go fast. it doesn't make sense until it smacks you in the face and you're like ....... wtf?

adarqui

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Re: Age vs Vertical
« Reply #3566 on: June 18, 2018, 08:47:16 am »
+1
i always run the hill up. The thing is, the 'hill' is 500m long. So when i was doing 500m sprints, i would run it up and then walk back down to start point (bottom ) for recovery, i never sprinted downhill.
Now that i am doing 300m, it is very convenient ( there are roads at exactly 300m up AND down, plus the times are great , ~1 min run - 2 mins walk ) to go like:
-Run 300m uphill
-Walk the remaining 200m uphill
-Reached top
-Run 300m downhill.
-Walk the remaining 20mm downhill
-Reached bottom.
-Repeat.
Of course i can just use the first 300m section and walk it back down and repeat forever. But i also like that now every iteration is a square number ( 500m ). but that's just my stats&maths OCD...

makes sense but, don't let your stats/maths OCD result in tendinitis... :D

Quote
oh well , let's sum it up: i asked advice for downhill sprints, you guys jumped in to go against them so it is pretty clear that i should just shut up and ditch them, end of story. :D :D :D

hah.

well, it's worth debating/discussing, BUT there's a reason you don't usually hear about elites doing downhill speed work. It's pretty much entirely uphill. Downhill speed is just too risky. You mentioned "buffering it" etc, but that would change mechanics and might cause you to "break" more each stride. So even though you are going down "fast", those breaking mechanics are triggered each stride, and the knee extensor tendons can become over stressed.

Think about "buffering" uphill. Just the thought of it, you can feel the difference, to me at least. Buffering uphill = toning down the acceleration, Buffering downhill = breaking the speed - since you are falling.

It'd be something you'd consider if you were just looking at the sports science of it, ie some kind of "super method" in a Verkhoshansky protocol etc. I'd have considered it back then @ a very small grade, that's for sure.

But in practice, uphill is safer + more effective. In a weightlifting analogy, uphill is like adding concentric resistance. It's easier on the joints, and harder on the muscles concentrically. Downhill is harder on the joints, changes mechanics from accelerating to breaking, and harder on the muscles eccentrically.

Regarding overspeed:

The best "overspeed" is using the wind.. That's what i've found in practice. If you want to maintain mechanics and experience forces greater than you can generate on your own, the wind takes care of that. Nature FTW. Nature ftw with hills as well :F

You're not doing overspeed but just throwing that out there.

Anecdotal but, I remember after the coral springs half marathon, my right knee had healed from tendonitis/ITBS, I went fast on a small downhill and it reinjured *instantly*.

Now when I do hills, I basically "walk down", but using a slow-af jog form.

my 2cents on it!

pc!!

adarqui

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Re: Age vs Vertical
« Reply #3567 on: June 18, 2018, 08:52:39 am »
+1
16 June 2018

Bodyweight@session : ~85.5kg, AM and unfed but WTF, too low
Soreness : none
Injuries/aches : none

HALF SQUAT ( tempo 1:1:4 ):
HANG POWER CLEAN ++ PUSH PRESS:
5++5@20kg
5++5@30kg
5++5@40kg
5++3@45kg
3++1@50kg
3++0@55kg
3++0@55kg
1++0@60kg
5++5@40kg
-Bored of half squats, decided to bring back o-lifts.
Sooooo much more fun, love them. Tempted to ditch normal squats too, or skip volume, i am tired of legs being stressed from weights all the time.
This ++ denotes that at the same rep i am cleaning and then i am pushpressing it, not 5 cleans and then 5 presses.

DIPS ( tempo 1:1:4 ):
10@BW
10@BW
10@BW
10@BW
10@BW
-I feel i can advance to weighted now.

CHINUP GRIP LAT-PULLDOWN ( tempo 1:1:4 ):
10@120lbs
10@140lbs
10@160lbs
DEAD HANG CHINUPS ( tempo 1:1:4 ):
8@BW ( +1 rep )
7@BW
-Controlled eccentric chins/pulls are a nightmare. Hits the back damn hard though!

DB SHRUGS ( tempo 1:1:4 ):
-Bye bye shrugs, 9 sets of cleans are enough.



17 June 2018

Bodyweight@session : ???
Soreness : lats mostly, some deltoids and traps too but minor
Injuries/aches : none

RUN 5km @ 29'41''

Second time in my life going under 30'. Actually just 50'' away from my PR , yet it was not a max effort 5K, I didn't even warmup. I was going uptempo, but actively buffering a bit. Only pushed it maximally at the last 750m as you can see on the graph too because i saw i was able to break 30' so i went for it. Not bad at all. Now gotta reduce smoking, i have relaxed a bit too much with it.





In other news, as I mentioned in LBSS's journal earlier, i intend to run a re-composition for a while. Nothing too fancy or obsessed. So for diet I will be reducing carbs, except from the weight days post-workout. I will be trying to break even ( TDEE-vs-food ) or even on a surplus on weight days but with most of the calories and carbs post-workout, while being on a deficit all other days. Training wise i will try to have as less missed running days as possible. Must change my mindset to make running days more important than lifting days, but i am finding difficulties to do that, i want my 3 gym days per week. Summer is also an enemy, increased social life, less free time, more alcohol and cigar smoke in my system. Oh well, ill keep grinding.

nice!!!

Running helps to reduce smoking, haha. Lungs/heart are now tools, to which you want to make stronger, not weaker. Good stuff :D

With lifting + occasional basketball, it's "not as important". But now with running, lungs/heart are now performance engines, so you naturally begin to think about them from a new perspective. :ibrunning: :ibrunning: :ibrunning: :highfive:

vag

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Re: Age vs Vertical
« Reply #3568 on: June 18, 2018, 01:23:20 pm »
+1

nice!!!

Running helps to reduce smoking, haha. Lungs/heart are now tools, to which you want to make stronger, not weaker. Good stuff :D

With lifting + occasional basketball, it's "not as important". But now with running, lungs/heart are now performance engines, so you naturally begin to think about them from a new perspective. :ibrunning: :ibrunning: :ibrunning: :highfive:

Nailed it. This, combined with the existing will to cut it ( or drastically reduce it to keep it real ) might make it happen.
As for overspeed, fuck it, i wasn't into it anyway. Was convenient as i already said, plus I got tempted from the speed PRs id hit. But i don't really care, better safe than sorry, AELS FTW!!!
Target training paces (min/km), calculated from 5K PR 22:49 :
Easy run : 5:48
Tempo run : 4:50
VO2-max run :4:21
Speed form run : 4:02

---

it's the biggest trick in the run game.. go slow to go fast. it doesn't make sense until it smacks you in the face and you're like ....... wtf?

adarqui

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Re: Age vs Vertical
« Reply #3569 on: June 18, 2018, 09:19:59 pm »
+1

nice!!!

Running helps to reduce smoking, haha. Lungs/heart are now tools, to which you want to make stronger, not weaker. Good stuff :D

With lifting + occasional basketball, it's "not as important". But now with running, lungs/heart are now performance engines, so you naturally begin to think about them from a new perspective. :ibrunning: :ibrunning: :ibrunning: :highfive:

Nailed it. This, combined with the existing will to cut it ( or drastically reduce it to keep it real ) might make it happen.
As for overspeed, fuck it, i wasn't into it anyway. Was convenient as i already said, plus I got tempted from the speed PRs id hit. But i don't really care, better safe than sorry, AELS FTW!!!

yup. nice.

AELS ftw for sure. it's really helped me alot over the years.. when I remember it. When I forget it, I pay the price. :ninja: