Author Topic: Age vs VO2max  (Read 960569 times)

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Flander

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Re: vag's journal : Age vs Vertical
« Reply #390 on: June 13, 2010, 11:56:30 am »
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Still got that pain in your leg?

Yes , just woke up and its still there , 2nd day ( Saturday ). I think it bugs less today. I described it wrong , its 5'' above ancle , not 3''
Anyway , lets see how it goees
Thanks...

Considered rolling it on a tennisball?

vag

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Re: vag's journal : Age vs Vertical
« Reply #391 on: June 13, 2010, 02:17:53 pm »
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Still got that pain in your leg?

Yes , just woke up and its still there , 2nd day ( Saturday ). I think it bugs less today. I described it wrong , its 5'' above ancle , not 3''
Anyway , lets see how it goees
Thanks...

Considered rolling it on a tennisball?

Nah... i probably should though. I generally just let those things go away. I am not gifted at speed or strength or power , but i am gifted in injury proneness , i am almost 36 and all the injuries i had was was an ankle sprain. I mean EVER! :D
I did ice it hardcore yesterday ( Saturday ) , it improved a lot , today ( Sunday ) i was barely feeling it and i got to swim in the sea too , so it should be allright.
Drinking a redbull before dunking currently , ill see there how it really is! :D
Thanks for asking/recommending !
Target training paces (min/km), calculated from 5K PR 22:49 :
Easy run : 5:48
Tempo run : 4:50
VO2-max run :4:21
Speed form run : 4:02

---

it's the biggest trick in the run game.. go slow to go fast. it doesn't make sense until it smacks you in the face and you're like ....... wtf?

vag

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Re: vag's journal : Age vs Vertical
« Reply #392 on: June 13, 2010, 04:19:18 pm »
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13 June 2010

Vertical jump testing / dunks session

Interesting elements of this session:
- I was wearing my hyperdunks instead of nike frees.
- Weight@session : 201,5 , i need to reduce my calorie intake , i thought i did this week but i obviousely failed.
- 6 hours before the session i drunk like 500ml wine

- 15' dynamic warmup + bunch of low/medium effort jumps.

Jumps on 9'10'' :
1x4 SVJs : 28''
1x3 2 step lead in jumps : ~31''
1x3 full runup jumps ~32''
Lights there were broken , light was too low so running jumps were holding back.
SVJs were awesome , i had the REA squat feeling doing them , blasting up , great shit!

10' rims were taken so i went to the 9'8'' rim that had lights so i could film

SVJ : 28'' here too
2-steps RVJ : 32+''
full runup RVJ : 33'' , hitting rim 4'' below wrist.

Then i had to leave , got only 2 dunk attempts on 9'8'', both 2 handers with only 2 steps , way too easy.
Awesome session , 201lbs + wine + no caffeine + 33'' , WTF !!!  :o  ;D
Ok , big statement : next time i get the 10' rim free , ill dunk it! :D

Target training paces (min/km), calculated from 5K PR 22:49 :
Easy run : 5:48
Tempo run : 4:50
VO2-max run :4:21
Speed form run : 4:02

---

it's the biggest trick in the run game.. go slow to go fast. it doesn't make sense until it smacks you in the face and you're like ....... wtf?

adarqui

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Re: vag's journal : Age vs Vertical
« Reply #393 on: June 13, 2010, 04:36:42 pm »
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13 June 2010

Vertical jump testing / dunks session

Interesting elements of this session:
- I was wearing my hyperdunks instead of nike frees.
- Weight@session : 201,5 , i need to reduce my calorie intake , i thought i did this week but i obviousely failed.
- 6 hours before the session i drunk like 500ml wine

- 15' dynamic warmup + bunch of low/medium effort jumps.

Jumps on 9'10'' :
1x4 SVJs : 28''
1x3 2 step lead in jumps : ~31''
1x3 full runup jumps ~32''
Lights there were broken , light was too low so running jumps were holding back.
SVJs were awesome , i had the REA squat feeling doing them , blasting up , great shit!

10' rims were taken so i went to the 9'8'' rim that had lights so i could film

SVJ : 28'' here too
2-steps RVJ : 32+''
full runup RVJ : 33'' , hitting rim 4'' below wrist.

Then i had to leave , got only 2 dunk attempts on 9'8'', both 2 handers with only 2 steps , way too easy.
Awesome session , 201lbs + wine + no caffeine + 33'' , WTF !!!  :o  ;D
Ok , big statement : next time i get the 10' rim free , ill dunk it! :D



sick!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 10' dunks coming up.

btw, don't just reduce caloric intake across the board, zigzag it.. lower cal days, higher cal days.. before anything important eat big the day before, but on other days you can eat alot lighter.

peace man

vag

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Re: vag's journal : Age vs Vertical
« Reply #394 on: June 13, 2010, 04:50:02 pm »
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sick!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 10' dunks coming up.

btw, don't just reduce caloric intake across the board, zigzag it.. lower cal days, higher cal days.. before anything important eat big the day before, but on other days you can eat alot lighter.

peace man

I do zig-zag but I do it differently , the days that i work out ( at 9pm )  i eat a little big at lunch ( 1pm ) and like a pig post-workout. All the other days i go light. Is this wrong?

Target training paces (min/km), calculated from 5K PR 22:49 :
Easy run : 5:48
Tempo run : 4:50
VO2-max run :4:21
Speed form run : 4:02

---

it's the biggest trick in the run game.. go slow to go fast. it doesn't make sense until it smacks you in the face and you're like ....... wtf?

adarqui

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Re: vag's journal : Age vs Vertical
« Reply #395 on: June 13, 2010, 05:28:57 pm »
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sick!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 10' dunks coming up.

btw, don't just reduce caloric intake across the board, zigzag it.. lower cal days, higher cal days.. before anything important eat big the day before, but on other days you can eat alot lighter.

peace man

I do zig-zag but I do it differently , the days that i work out ( at 9pm )  i eat a little big at lunch ( 1pm ) and like a pig post-workout. All the other days i go light. Is this wrong?



well, in my opinion, i'd do it the other way.. doing it your way, your big lunch is really STILL in you on your jumping day, being digested, all of that yet to be digested food + fecal matter in there weighing you down 2-3 lb :D lol

if you eat big the day prior, you are ensured that food is digest come tomorrow at 9pm, plus you get to shit all of the undigested material out, because as you eat light during that jumping day (with fibrous food), you're still keeping your blood sugar levels proper, but stimulating your body to empty that excess food..

for example, say i weight 158 on wednesday morning, i eat big the day, weight in at night around 161 or so, wakeup next day 159 with food pretty much digested, eat small sandwhich + banana, take a bunch of craps, then maybe do that again + caffeine around 7pm, take more shits.. by the time im jumping im like 157-158 still instead of 161.. i know its only a few pounds but it does make a difference.. plus eating a ton of food THAT DAY can sometimes put your cns to sleep..

eating lighter helps maintain much higher arousal levels imo..



PARDON THE DISCUSSION ABOUT FECES ETC FOLKS, BUT IT HAS 2 B DONE.

:)



so my ideal strategy is:
- eat big + clean day before, NO junk/no crappy sugars
- eat light + very fibrous material day of, plus optionally caffeine+ginsing etc

that way:
- glycogen reserves are full
- arousal levels are higher
- you actually weight ~3-4 lb lighter than if you had eaten big on jump day
- etc


sometimes im pretty hungry come jumping, usually im not, but when i am hungry yet i have eaten light but nice during the day, im extremely irritable, which actually I think helps me jump even better.. like im just naturally more aggressive and pissed off if i havn't eaten alot prior to sprinting/jumping..

i dno their are some evolutionary mechanisms at play..

peace man, off to movies!

vag

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Re: vag's journal : Age vs Vertical
« Reply #396 on: June 13, 2010, 06:28:34 pm »
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Agreed , very interesting...
As for the shit talk , come oooon , shit talk is funny/cool , keep it rollin'! :D

What i was always curious , the million dollar question : "how long is the energy you eat available?"
Im not talking any energy , im talking carbs from rice, pasta or whole grain bread , thats my main energy income.
I used the same-day aproach coz i was afraid it would be wasted if i eat it the previous day.
Probably i must use the same-day approach for bulking and the prev-day aproach for explosive/sport events.
So now that im done with bulking , it should be 100% your aproach...
Nice , always like trying something new.
Thanks for the tips! :D
Target training paces (min/km), calculated from 5K PR 22:49 :
Easy run : 5:48
Tempo run : 4:50
VO2-max run :4:21
Speed form run : 4:02

---

it's the biggest trick in the run game.. go slow to go fast. it doesn't make sense until it smacks you in the face and you're like ....... wtf?

cowed77

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Re: vag's journal : Age vs Vertical
« Reply #397 on: June 14, 2010, 11:15:55 am »
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damn... i think once u start losing the flubber ur gonna be a beast!!
BW: 74kg
Ht: 174cm, 5'8
reach: 220cm

vag

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Re: vag's journal : Age vs Vertical
« Reply #398 on: June 14, 2010, 12:44:48 pm »
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damn... i think once u start losing the flubber ur gonna be a beast!!

lol , thanks , i'll give it a try for sure... ;)
Target training paces (min/km), calculated from 5K PR 22:49 :
Easy run : 5:48
Tempo run : 4:50
VO2-max run :4:21
Speed form run : 4:02

---

it's the biggest trick in the run game.. go slow to go fast. it doesn't make sense until it smacks you in the face and you're like ....... wtf?

bball2020

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Re: vag's journal : Age vs Vertical
« Reply #399 on: June 14, 2010, 04:14:37 pm »
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all good points, most good preworkout supps/ energy drinks normally say to take on empty stomache

I like to take cytosports fast twitch...hard to find sometimes but it has a good combo of alot of caffeine(200 mg per serving) + L tyrosine and creatine n maybe some other stuff, and taste good


Kellyb

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Re: vag's journal : Age vs Vertical
« Reply #400 on: June 14, 2010, 04:44:47 pm »
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Quote
What i was always curious , the million dollar question : "how long is the energy you eat available?"
Im not talking any energy , im talking carbs from rice, pasta or whole grain bread , thats my main energy income.
I used the same-day aproach coz i was afraid it would be wasted if i eat it the previous day.

This is an interesting topic. You have 3 sources for glucose:

1. Muscular glycogen: capacity ~300-500grams - Once it gets stored it doesn't leave until you exercise, and it takes a LOT of exercise to even come close to using it up.  300 grams of muscle glycogen is 1200 calories worth, so you'd have to be doing something that burns a TON of calories to even come close to depleting all your muscle glycogen.

2. Liver glycogen: capacity ~50-75 grams - This is what supplies your mental energy needs on a daily basis.

3. Blood sugar: <~10 grams - This is the sugar floating around in your blood either from a recent meal or that which has been released from your liver.

Your liver glycogen and blood sugar is most strongly affected by what you've eaten today.  The glycogen in your muscles doesn't impact your mental energy. It will be used as fuel by the exercising muscles. Your immediate mental energy comes from sugar in your blood (a couple of teaspoons worth) and that which is stored in your liver.  If you run out of liver glycogen you feel like shit mentally ( unless you're in ketosis) so you need enough carbs on a daily basis for that (50-100 grams or so). Your muscular glycogen really comes from the previous days eating.  

However, unless you're engaged in really high volume exercise muscle glycogen isn't likely to be much of a limiting factor.  In fact, I've seen some positive things with regard to vertical jump in the middle of a carbohydrate depletion cycle. It was a specific form of bulking and cutting I was playing around with a few years back. You take several days and do lots of high volume exercise and low carb eating to deplete the muscles of glycogen, then follow that up with several days of the opposite approach.  What I noticed was 3 or 4 days into it (when I was just about fully depleted) my sprints were a little quicker and jumps a little higher.  I'm not sure how replicable this is for everyone, but each gram of glycogen has 3 grams of water with it. If you deplete most of the glyocgen out of your muscles you'll also deplete 3 x that much in water, which will likely be over 5 lbs worth. You'll be weaker due to the impact that muscle glycogen has on leverage in your muscles,  but that will likely be offset by the reduced water and bodyweight you're carrying around.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2010, 04:55:00 pm by Kellyb »

adarqui

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Re: vag's journal : Age vs Vertical
« Reply #401 on: June 14, 2010, 05:35:59 pm »
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Quote
What i was always curious , the million dollar question : "how long is the energy you eat available?"
Im not talking any energy , im talking carbs from rice, pasta or whole grain bread , thats my main energy income.
I used the same-day aproach coz i was afraid it would be wasted if i eat it the previous day.

This is an interesting topic. You have 3 sources for glucose:

1. Muscular glycogen: capacity ~300-500grams - Once it gets stored it doesn't leave until you exercise, and it takes a LOT of exercise to even come close to using it up.  300 grams of muscle glycogen is 1200 calories worth, so you'd have to be doing something that burns a TON of calories to even come close to depleting all your muscle glycogen.

2. Liver glycogen: capacity ~50-75 grams - This is what supplies your mental energy needs on a daily basis.

3. Blood sugar: <~10 grams - This is the sugar floating around in your blood either from a recent meal or that which has been released from your liver.

Your liver glycogen and blood sugar is most strongly affected by what you've eaten today.  The glycogen in your muscles doesn't impact your mental energy. It will be used as fuel by the exercising muscles. Your immediate mental energy comes from sugar in your blood (a couple of teaspoons worth) and that which is stored in your liver.  If you run out of liver glycogen you feel like shit mentally ( unless you're in ketosis) so you need enough carbs on a daily basis for that (50-100 grams or so). Your muscular glycogen really comes from the previous days eating.  

However, unless you're engaged in really high volume exercise muscle glycogen isn't likely to be much of a limiting factor.  In fact, I've seen some positive things with regard to vertical jump in the middle of a carbohydrate depletion cycle. It was a specific form of bulking and cutting I was playing around with a few years back. You take several days and do lots of high volume exercise and low carb eating to deplete the muscles of glycogen, then follow that up with several days of the opposite approach.  What I noticed was 3 or 4 days into it (when I was just about fully depleted) my sprints were a little quicker and jumps a little higher.  I'm not sure how replicable this is for everyone, but each gram of glycogen has 3 grams of water with it. If you deplete most of the glyocgen out of your muscles you'll also deplete 3 x that much in water, which will likely be over 5 lbs worth. You'll be weaker due to the impact that muscle glycogen has on leverage in your muscles,  but that will likely be offset by the reduced water and bodyweight you're carrying around.

great post man!

yeah, i have some experience as well on these issues as I have played around with it also, here's what I've found:

When it comes to "depleting glycogen", to lose that extra water weight etc, my results have been very inconsistent. For example, at times I was able to drop 5-7 lb by depleting, but I couldn't get that "pop" every session. Sometimes I'd deplete and my legs would feel so shaky and weak, even though my mental arousal is through the roof. Other times I'd be on point, jumping at least 2" higher than if I hadn't depleted, every jump feeling so explosive. When depleting, I'd deplete for 2-3 days prior, and eat lots of bananas etc. Day of, i'd eat bananas and very light meals. It really didn't seem like what I ate THAT DAY was causing the problems when the "shaky legs" feelings persisted. Sometimes when my legs felt shaky, i'd actually jump great, but most often i'd jump normal or slightly worse. I did set alot of PR's that way though on those good jump sessions, so I definitely got it to work, it's just the consistency that would bother me.

I've only recently been eating big the day before jumping sessions, and then light day of. So i'm not sure yet in terms of PR's etc how well it effects, but one thing is for sure, I always feel good. My legs ALWAYS feel strong, I don't get that shaky feeling. So basically, all that's really changed is how much I eat the day before.

For example, yesterday I ate:
- stir fry + egg omelette
- tacos + taco chips
- big smoothie
- ice cream cup
- whole milk - 4 glasses
- 7 bananas + turkey & cheese sandwhich

Today I've eaten, and will eat:
- turkey and cheese sandwhich + coffee drink (starbucks bottled)
- iced tea + lemon + arizona ice tea packet (with ginsing) (1 glass already, another glass 1 hour before session)
- 2-3 bananas 2 hours before session

so, huge yesterday, very light today.. I woke up at 158.8 and after some bathroom duty i hit 156.. we're talking MAJOR bowel contractions from all of those bananas.. so here I ate a ton yesterday but I really think I get rid of nearly all of the excess due to all of those bananas.

so far today, my blood sugar feels great, legs feel so strong getting up out of chair/bed/walking around etc.. by the time I actually start dunking I should be around 156.. so almost 3 lb lost while staying energy-balanced.

One thing i've noticed, even though I'm loading up more glycogen on the day prior to jumping, come day of, while im eating light, im actually pissing a TON.. that calorie/diet fluctuation really has you pissing alot.

Regardless of both strategies, eating light DAY OF jumping/important training really has me feeling mentally arroused/100% mentally.. if i eat alot DAY OF, i usually feel to content mentally.. alot harder for me to get amp'd.. i have less "twitch".



So i dno, i think both can work for sure, it's just the consistency of eating big the day prior that is leading me towards this approach. This guy Dynamo on TVS was trying to get 40 RVJ, he was close like 38-39 for a while, I told him to eat very big the day before his jump session and he hit 40 right after doing this.. He had been eating very light the day prior etc. I mean of course that's only one case.

My diet is basically, light as hell on jumping days and heavy before jumping.. Sometimes i'll eat light prior to jumping just to create a more negative caloric balance during the week, but if I want to jump very good the next day, i've been WANTING to eat big prior to that session.. it's becoming a sort of adaptation.



On another topic, I really think this approach im doing is working nice..

Day 1: short workout: sprint focus
Day 2: short workout: dunk/plyo focus

If I keep the volume light on sprint days, I am so much more activated in all musculature involved in RVJ. KellyB, remember when I was running just one 400 prior to those huge PR dunk sessions I was having? Seems like I'm getting that effect again. I've noticed people do nothing the day before jumping sometimes, to try and be 100% ready, i'd honestly always recommend some short sprints the day prior, very low volume, just to fire everything up.. low volume short sprints shouldn't cause any fatigue imo.

The only "wrench" ive thrown into my jumping routine is my high frequency PMGHR's... I can sacrifice a bit right now though to focus on that, my hamstrings are just way too weak.. so far with this high frequency approach on pmghr ive made some nice progress very fast, and it doesn't seem to be effecting my jumping.



Ok, end long post. :D

peace

vag

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Re: vag's journal : Age vs Vertical
« Reply #402 on: June 15, 2010, 04:19:43 am »
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Kelly , Andrew , great posts! :D
Target training paces (min/km), calculated from 5K PR 22:49 :
Easy run : 5:48
Tempo run : 4:50
VO2-max run :4:21
Speed form run : 4:02

---

it's the biggest trick in the run game.. go slow to go fast. it doesn't make sense until it smacks you in the face and you're like ....... wtf?

vag

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Re: vag's journal : Age vs Vertical
« Reply #403 on: June 15, 2010, 02:30:44 pm »
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STRENGTH BLOCK A   :  2:1:0  :  STRENGTH - STRENGTH - EXPLOSIVE
STRENGTH BLOCK B   :  2:1:0  :  STRENGTH - STRENGTH - EXPLOSIVE
EXPLOSIVE BLOCK A  :  1:2:0  :  STRENGTH
- EXPLOSIVE - EXPLOSIVE
EXPLOSIVE BLOCK B  :  1:2:0  :  STRENGTH - EXPLOSIVE - EXPLOSIVE
PEAK BLOCK               :  0:0:X  :  MSEM - MSEM - MSEM - MSEM - MSEM
GREEN = DONE


15 June 2010
EXPLOSIVE BLOCK A,  strength workout , modified : reduced volume.

Weight@session: ~197. Nice , it started dropping finally!

SQUATS:
1x2@209
1x2@253
1x4@275 , ( PR , previous was MSEM 3x1@275 )
209 was ATG and a bit explosive , 253 was parallel and 275 was ~2'' above parallel.

BSS :
1x5@176
1x5@198
1x5@220

CALVE RAISES:
1x15@308
1x15@330
1x15@374
Target training paces (min/km), calculated from 5K PR 22:49 :
Easy run : 5:48
Tempo run : 4:50
VO2-max run :4:21
Speed form run : 4:02

---

it's the biggest trick in the run game.. go slow to go fast. it doesn't make sense until it smacks you in the face and you're like ....... wtf?

vag

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Re: vag's journal : Age vs Vertical
« Reply #404 on: June 16, 2010, 02:23:33 pm »
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16 June 2010

Conditioning/recovery workout
Weight@session : ~198

- 10' dynamic workout.

- 3 mins rest

INTERVALS:
- 10x80m sprints at ~60%
- 5 mins rest
- 10x40m sprints at ~80%
Rest was ~40sec both for 40m and 80m sprints.

-5 min rest

JUMPS:
- Jumping on concrete , 10' rim.
- 1x3 SVJs                     : ~26''
- 1x3 2-steps DLRVJs    : ~30''
- 1x3 full runup DLRVJs : ~30''

- "7 Days Vertical Jump Cure" routine without the glutes excercises.
- My usual lower body stretch routine.

Target training paces (min/km), calculated from 5K PR 22:49 :
Easy run : 5:48
Tempo run : 4:50
VO2-max run :4:21
Speed form run : 4:02

---

it's the biggest trick in the run game.. go slow to go fast. it doesn't make sense until it smacks you in the face and you're like ....... wtf?