Author Topic: Vertical Jump enthusiast trying to dunk  (Read 21603 times)

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ChrisM

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Re: Vertical Jump enthusiast trying to dunk
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2016, 09:15:44 am »
+1
Start the strength training. You will fix the imbalances you have quicker with weight training than you will just waiting.
Insert motivational quote here...

FP

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Re: Vertical Jump enthusiast trying to dunk
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2016, 06:00:32 pm »
0
Also, my right leg is weak as fuck compared to my left leg so any ideas on how to balance them out? Thanks!

You should figure out exactly where your biggest imbalances lie; "one leg is stronger than the other" is not specific enough. I know that my left calf is stronger than my right but my right quad is stronger than my left. Since you were injured, probably all of your muscles are imbalanced, but some will be more imbalanced than others. Those are the ones you should focus on.

You should try to test your strength for right and left leg on different movements and compare the differences.
-single-leg machine extension for quads
-single-leg hip thrust or BSS (with correct form) for glutes
-single-leg machine leg curl for hamstrings
-single-leg calf raises for calves (hold onto something for balance)

If you only do bilateral movements, your imbalances are not going to disappear and might get worse. This happened to me on my squat, and now I'm over reliant on my right quad to do most of the work in the lift. If you play any kind of sport, your imbalances will put you at a significant risk of injury.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2016, 06:04:18 pm by Final Phenom »

LBSS

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Re: Vertical Jump enthusiast trying to dunk
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2016, 07:56:49 pm »
+1
start now!
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

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alestor91

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Re: Vertical Jump enthusiast trying to dunk
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2016, 11:22:49 pm »
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Also, my right leg is weak as fuck compared to my left leg so any ideas on how to balance them out? Thanks!

You should figure out exactly where your biggest imbalances lie; "one leg is stronger than the other" is not specific enough. I know that my left calf is stronger than my right but my right quad is stronger than my left. Since you were injured, probably all of your muscles are imbalanced, but some will be more imbalanced than others. Those are the ones you should focus on.

You should try to test your strength for right and left leg on different movements and compare the differences.
-single-leg machine extension for quads
-single-leg hip thrust or BSS (with correct form) for glutes
-single-leg machine leg curl for hamstrings
-single-leg calf raises for calves (hold onto something for balance)

If you only do bilateral movements, your imbalances are not going to disappear and might get worse. This happened to me on my squat, and now I'm over reliant on my right quad to do most of the work in the lift. If you play any kind of sport, your imbalances will put you at a significant risk of injury.

Thanks! So after I do these tests what exercises should I do? The ones that I'm weaker in?

alestor91

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Re: Vertical Jump enthusiast trying to dunk
« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2016, 07:03:00 pm »
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Also, any ideas why my SVJ was affected a LOT more by my weak ankle than my RVJ?

Also, I tested my single leg running vert and it's about 34-35"  :o. That's higher than my RVJ right now... It used to be about 30" prior to my surgery when I was heavier. My right leg has an 18" single leg running vert tho.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2016, 07:07:10 pm by alestor91 »

vag

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Re: Vertical Jump enthusiast trying to dunk
« Reply #20 on: February 23, 2016, 05:32:06 am »
+1
Too many questions asked, too little weights lifted. Get started already!!!
woot

gukl

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Re: Vertical Jump enthusiast trying to dunk
« Reply #21 on: February 23, 2016, 06:06:22 am »
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I discolated my ankle too a few years back - never got surgery though.

Although I went from Oct 14 2010 when I dislocated it to dunking again on 29th jan 2011 - whole process is in my old log in journal graveyard on here.

like the others have said - start something! My 'weak leg' kind of just fixed itself without too much focus on addressing specific strength deficits in it compared to the other. i saw it as in, say a bilateral squat, it's easy for the good leg, hard for the bad leg...therefore your bad leg has a much greater training stimulus + response so other time it will catch up. Maybe complete b.s. But makes sense to me. i did completely smash the generic ankle rehab stuff though - band stuff/zillions of calf raises/wobble board/sl hopping stuff for months after.

FP

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Re: Vertical Jump enthusiast trying to dunk
« Reply #22 on: February 23, 2016, 12:54:23 pm »
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I discolated my ankle too a few years back - never got surgery though.

Although I went from Oct 14 2010 when I dislocated it to dunking again on 29th jan 2011 - whole process is in my old log in journal graveyard on here.

like the others have said - start something! My 'weak leg' kind of just fixed itself without too much focus on addressing specific strength deficits in it compared to the other. i saw it as in, say a bilateral squat, it's easy for the good leg, hard for the bad leg...therefore your bad leg has a much greater training stimulus + response so other time it will catch up. Maybe complete b.s. But makes sense to me. i did completely smash the generic ankle rehab stuff though - band stuff/zillions of calf raises/wobble board/sl hopping stuff for months after.

I tend to kind of compensate a little for my imbalance on the squat and lean my torso to the right slightly to put more weight on my right leg, I feel it more in the right quad afterwards. But I guess I could fix that if I thought about it..

You're probably right though, maybe the reason for my persisting imbalance is how much unilateral movement there is in Ultimate, the sport I play. It's hard to say.

I agree with what everybody says, you don't want to be one of those "analysis paralysis" people, go lift some weight

alestor91

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Re: Vertical Jump enthusiast trying to dunk
« Reply #23 on: February 25, 2016, 04:53:51 am »
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Guys, how does my single leg jumping form look? This is a one step jump, so it's only like 26" jump.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3d4AmHVzhU

alestor91

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Re: Vertical Jump enthusiast trying to dunk
« Reply #24 on: February 25, 2016, 04:55:02 am »
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I discolated my ankle too a few years back - never got surgery though.

Although I went from Oct 14 2010 when I dislocated it to dunking again on 29th jan 2011 - whole process is in my old log in journal graveyard on here.

like the others have said - start something! My 'weak leg' kind of just fixed itself without too much focus on addressing specific strength deficits in it compared to the other. i saw it as in, say a bilateral squat, it's easy for the good leg, hard for the bad leg...therefore your bad leg has a much greater training stimulus + response so other time it will catch up. Maybe complete b.s. But makes sense to me. i did completely smash the generic ankle rehab stuff though - band stuff/zillions of calf raises/wobble board/sl hopping stuff for months after.

I tend to kind of compensate a little for my imbalance on the squat and lean my torso to the right slightly to put more weight on my right leg, I feel it more in the right quad afterwards. But I guess I could fix that if I thought about it..

You're probably right though, maybe the reason for my persisting imbalance is how much unilateral movement there is in Ultimate, the sport I play. It's hard to say.

I agree with what everybody says, you don't want to be one of those "analysis paralysis" people, go lift some weight

Thanks! I appreciate it. I started squatting with light weights (112 lbs) for 3 sets of 5 and plan to continue! I'm also doing pistols with my right leg onto a box to add some extra stimulus to that lagging limb.

alestor91

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Re: Vertical Jump enthusiast trying to dunk
« Reply #25 on: February 26, 2016, 04:50:50 am »
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Is this a good program that I've come up with?

Mon-
Depth jumps: 2x3
Max effort running jumps: 3x5
Squat: 3x5
Deadlift:1x5
Weighted calf raises: 3x20

Wed-
Max effort SVJs: 3x5
Speed box squats with bands: 2x3
Squats: 3x5
Weighted calf raises: 3x20

Fri-
Depth jumps: 2x3
Max effort running jumps: 3x5
Squat: 3x5
Deadlift: 1x5
Weighted calf raises: 3x20

Merrick

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Re: Vertical Jump enthusiast trying to dunk
« Reply #26 on: February 26, 2016, 07:13:43 am »
+1
-   If JUMPING is your goal, personally I think deadlifts suck.  You'd be better off with RDL's and with more volume.  Your current routine consists of 10 total reps of posterior chain work with 0 eccentric training for a WHOLE WEEK

-   Also, what is your goal?  SL jump or DL jump?  This routine (if you replace deadlifts with a better p-chain exercise) is fine for DL jumping but not for SL jumping. 

-  You can do sets and reps for Max jumping.  But, I (and many others) personally like to just have 1 set of doing X jumps and stopping at performance drop off, resting ~45 seconds between jumps.

-  With 3x / week 3x5 squatting, you better be eating enough.
 
-  I prefer doing max jumps before depth jumps.  If you stop jumping at drop off, you will still be relatively fresh and properly warmed up for depth jumps and be able to put in quality work on them.  Just take your time getting properly warmed up for the jump session.  Either way can work though.

-   You can also take out the calf raises on Wednesday.  I think 2x a week of 3x20 is plenty.

-  So yeah, main thing is replace the deadlifts.  You might want to reduce squatting volume (which is fine since frequency is high) to accomodate higher volume of p-chain stuff (whichever exercise you decide to do). 

-  If your goal is SL jumping, you gotta change a lot more things lol

LBSS

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Re: Vertical Jump enthusiast trying to dunk
« Reply #27 on: February 26, 2016, 10:19:44 am »
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agree with most of what merrick said, except slightly disagree about DLs. you're such a newbie that i feel like they can help. general system strength is what you're going for. don't reduce squatting volume, 3x/week of 3x5 is good. and don't drop the DLs. but i would add some more supplemental exercises. for example:

Mon-
Max effort running jumps: until performance drop-off of >10%
Depth jumps: 2x5
Squat: 3x5
Deadlift:1x5
GHR or hyper: 2x10
Weighted calf raises: 3x20

Wed-
Max effort running jumps: until performance drop-off of >10%
Speed box squats with bands: 2x3
Squats: 3x5
DB BSS: 2x10/leg
Weighted calf raises: 3x20

Fri-
Max effort running jumps: until performance drop-off of >10%
Depth jumps: 2x5
Squat: 3x5
Deadlift:1x5
GHR or hyper: 2x10
Weighted calf raises: 3x20

you should warm up very thoroughly before the ME jumps. play a game of pickup, for example. the point is to work up a good sweat and have your CNS be excited.

also, you can do more targeted prehab/rehab stuff for your imbalanced legs. cribbed this routine from t0ddday, intensity is low enough that you should be able to do it without it interfering with the main workouts. start with 3x/week, done anytime except right before a main workout. take fairly minimal rest between sets and exercises, a minute or less:

- warm up (doesn't have to be as thorough as for gym workouts)
- hip and torso mobility work (scorpions, bird-dogs, leg swings, ankle dorsiflexion work)
- prone SL glute thrust 2x10/leg
- SL SVJ 2x5/leg
- SL pogo 2x10/leg
- pistol 2x5/leg
- shrimp squat 2x10/leg
- BSS ISO hold 1x60s/leg
- hollow position leg raises 2x20
- stretch
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

handstand + backflip + flag

Dreyth

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Re: Vertical Jump enthusiast trying to dunk
« Reply #28 on: February 26, 2016, 10:38:55 am »
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should he be doing depth jumps at this level?
i think just playing some pick up ball and lifting 3x a week is enough for now. max effort running jumps are a great idea. he needs movement efficiency. What does everyone think?
I'm LAKERS from The Vertical Summit

Merrick

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Re: Vertical Jump enthusiast trying to dunk
« Reply #29 on: February 26, 2016, 10:56:21 am »
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I would agree with LBSS about keeping the squats the way it is too but deadlifts IMO just plain suck at vert training (they don't suck, there's just much more efficient tools).  Its true he is a beginner so he may benefit, but as a beginner he would also waste a lot of valuable time learning to do it properly (90% of people do them low back dominantly and just screw up motor patterns).  There's just simply way too many other p-chain dominant exercises that'll benefit him more than deadlifts IMO

I also agree with Dreyth that you don't need depth jumps at all right now.  Just get some proper max effort jump sessions in.

But yeah, you gotta know if you are training primarily SL or DL jump.  If it's DL jump you can easily just use BSS like LBSS suggested as a supplementary exercise.  They not only hit the hams/glutes hard if you place the foot out far, but has good carryover to DL jumps and your squats.