Author Topic: walking lunges vs. box step up?  (Read 41559 times)

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LBSS

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Re: walking lunges vs. box step up?
« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2010, 12:43:19 pm »
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I think adarq recommended squats first because they're the most taxing, especially on your lower back, of any of the lower-body exercises you've been doing. If you do step-ups or lunges first, you've tired out your legs and lower back before doing squats, which can be dangerous (and which might have contributed to that "pop").
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

handstand + backflip + flag

adarqui

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Re: walking lunges vs. box step up?
« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2010, 05:40:04 pm »
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I think adarq recommended squats first because they're the most taxing, especially on your lower back, of any of the lower-body exercises you've been doing. If you do step-ups or lunges first, you've tired out your legs and lower back before doing squats, which can be dangerous (and which might have contributed to that "pop").

yup, exactly..

also ghettoracer, take a nice slow approach with squatting, don't go balls-to-the-wall, health is more important than vert, but being healthier will lead to better vert gains since those little injuries can really screw with your progress.. so ya, if your ATG is good form, then go for it, but make sure form is perfect on it.. half squat can be very effective for some of us more lanky athletes, but still, you don't have to load it up to the max to get an effect.. you can make plenty of gains training around 70-80% of 1RM.

peace man

ghettoracer

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Re: walking lunges vs. box step up?
« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2010, 03:06:11 am »
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i didn't realize lunges and step ups tax the back much.  i guess the pain from hand gripping DB's is distracting me.  my quads actually feel fine after the leg work outs so far.  so i think the weakest link in my lower body when i do squats is might be my lower back?  if that's the case should i do a separate lower back day to train it and bring it up to speed with the rest?  any recommendations?

here's a sample back day that i've done recently:

wide grip chinups 3x4 (yah i'm kinda weak lol)
lateral pull downs (machine) 70lbs 1x12 (warm up), 90lbs 1x12, 100lbs 1x10, 100 lbs 1x8
barbell rows 10lbs? (bare bar) 1x12, 35kg 1x8 (too taxing, breaking my form), 25kg 2x10
one arm db rows 35lbs 2x10, 40 lbs 1x8
standing pulldowns (cable machine) 50-60lbs 7x12 FST7 finishing for the burn

not too much for the lower back i think.  maybe i should add stiff leg dead lift to my back days?  what do you guys think?
current stats: age: 42 :: 5'11" (180cm) :: 180lbs (82kg) bf ~30% :: reach: 90" or 7'6" (230cm) :: wing span: 6" (183cm)
12 week goal(current): SQ 115kg(100), DL 130kg(110), BP 80kg(70), reduce weight to 75kg (165 lbs) and bf to ~25%
status: excellent cardio condition, new 5x5 program, 10' rim touch okay, RVJ ~30"
PR RVJ ~34" 10'5" touch @ age ~25 (worst was ~6" below rim when i was @ 190 lbs ~35% body fat ~23" RVJ in 2007-8

adarqui

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Re: walking lunges vs. box step up?
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2010, 05:27:08 am »
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i didn't realize lunges and step ups tax the back much.  i guess the pain from hand gripping DB's is distracting me.  my quads actually feel fine after the leg work outs so far.  so i think the weakest link in my lower body when i do squats is might be my lower back?  if that's the case should i do a separate lower back day to train it and bring it up to speed with the rest?  any recommendations?

here's a sample back day that i've done recently:

wide grip chinups 3x4 (yah i'm kinda weak lol)
lateral pull downs (machine) 70lbs 1x12 (warm up), 90lbs 1x12, 100lbs 1x10, 100 lbs 1x8
barbell rows 10lbs? (bare bar) 1x12, 35kg 1x8 (too taxing, breaking my form), 25kg 2x10
one arm db rows 35lbs 2x10, 40 lbs 1x8
standing pulldowns (cable machine) 50-60lbs 7x12 FST7 finishing for the burn

not too much for the lower back i think.  maybe i should add stiff leg dead lift to my back days?  what do you guys think?

well that back day is good, but mostly for lats/upper back/rear delt..

for a stronger lower back, i would do hypers, do you have access to a 45 degree hyper? rep it out for 5 sets or so, your lower back strength will improve a ton, as well as hamstring strength. i'd go with hyper over rdl/gm right now, safer/more effective at this point.

peace

ghettoracer

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Re: walking lunges vs. box step up?
« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2010, 08:16:40 am »
0
ahh hypers, haven't done them in a while.  you recommend 5 sets for this exercise?  should i go 8 reps or 12 reps if i really wanna strength it?  in the past i usually only do them as part of my basic body warm ups.   15kg 2x10 usually...

what are:
rdl (something dead lift?)
gm?

add them to the newbie acronym post (probably easier to compile as ppl ask you instead of doing it one time).  :-)
 
« Last Edit: September 28, 2010, 01:19:05 pm by ghettoracer »
current stats: age: 42 :: 5'11" (180cm) :: 180lbs (82kg) bf ~30% :: reach: 90" or 7'6" (230cm) :: wing span: 6" (183cm)
12 week goal(current): SQ 115kg(100), DL 130kg(110), BP 80kg(70), reduce weight to 75kg (165 lbs) and bf to ~25%
status: excellent cardio condition, new 5x5 program, 10' rim touch okay, RVJ ~30"
PR RVJ ~34" 10'5" touch @ age ~25 (worst was ~6" below rim when i was @ 190 lbs ~35% body fat ~23" RVJ in 2007-8

LBSS

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Re: walking lunges vs. box step up?
« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2010, 10:14:47 am »
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ahh hypers, haven't done them in a while.  you recommend 5 sets for this exercise?  should i go 8 reps or 12 reps if i really wanna strength it?  in the past i usually only do them as part of my basic body warm ups.   15kg 2x10 usually...

That seems like a lot for a warm-up! Maybe that's why your back is so tired when you squat? Anyway, in addition to having a strong lower back it's also important for the rest of your core to be strong. During a proper squat, you brace your whole core to maintain a neutral back position. If you're tired, or if part of your core is weak (could be low back, could be abs, could be transverse abdominus, etc.), you can't do the squat.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

handstand + backflip + flag

ghettoracer

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Re: walking lunges vs. box step up?
« Reply #21 on: September 28, 2010, 10:50:22 am »
0
i have not done hypers in a while.  i have never done them as warm ups on any of the leg days yet...  i used to do it as warm ups for my other body parts days though.  15kg 2x10 is considered a lot for warm ups?

when i did had the "pop" the other day, i was kinda of surprised actually.  it was on the 8th rep (last) and although i was straining a little with the 110kg smith squats i wasn't not really struggling.  i'll get some video so u guys and tell me if i'm doing the squats forms correctly.

in the past 3 months there's been 3 or 4 occasions where i've had this uber stiff back which lasts 3-6 days, that's the reason i think maybe it needs to be strengthened.  some of the massage therapist dude said i was not resting enough (balling everyday, which i've cut down quite a bit in last 3 weeks) and/or not stretching enough for the amount of exercises i do...  i miss the hot yoga rooms for sure (105F) the heat really helps stretching in my experience.
current stats: age: 42 :: 5'11" (180cm) :: 180lbs (82kg) bf ~30% :: reach: 90" or 7'6" (230cm) :: wing span: 6" (183cm)
12 week goal(current): SQ 115kg(100), DL 130kg(110), BP 80kg(70), reduce weight to 75kg (165 lbs) and bf to ~25%
status: excellent cardio condition, new 5x5 program, 10' rim touch okay, RVJ ~30"
PR RVJ ~34" 10'5" touch @ age ~25 (worst was ~6" below rim when i was @ 190 lbs ~35% body fat ~23" RVJ in 2007-8

LBSS

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Re: walking lunges vs. box step up?
« Reply #22 on: September 28, 2010, 11:45:07 am »
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i have not done hypers in a while.  i have never done them as warm ups on any of the leg days yet...  i used to do it as warm ups for my other body parts days though.  15kg 2x10 is considered a lot for warm ups?

Oh, misunderstood you, then. My bad. I don't think I'd do hypers at all as part of a general warm-up, though. Too intense.

Quote from: ghettoracer
when i did had the "pop" the other day, i was kinda of surprised actually.  it was on the 8th rep (last) and although i was straining a little with the 110kg smith squats i wasn't not really struggling.  i'll get some video so u guys and tell me if i'm doing the squats forms correctly.

Looking forward to it. Posting vids for form checks has helped me a lot!

Quote from: ghettoracer
in the past 3 months there's been 3 or 4 occasions where i've had this uber stiff back which lasts 3-6 days, that's the reason i think maybe it needs to be strengthened.  some of the massage therapist dude said i was not resting enough (balling everyday, which i've cut down quite a bit in last 3 weeks) and/or not stretching enough for the amount of exercises i do...  i miss the hot yoga rooms for sure (105F) the heat really helps stretching in my experience.


Yeah, heat does help with stretching. Feels so much more loose.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

handstand + backflip + flag

adarqui

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Re: walking lunges vs. box step up?
« Reply #23 on: September 28, 2010, 04:08:44 pm »
0
i have not done hypers in a while.  i have never done them as warm ups on any of the leg days yet...  i used to do it as warm ups for my other body parts days though.  15kg 2x10 is considered a lot for warm ups?

when i did had the "pop" the other day, i was kinda of surprised actually.  it was on the 8th rep (last) and although i was straining a little with the 110kg smith squats i wasn't not really struggling.  i'll get some video so u guys and tell me if i'm doing the squats forms correctly.

in the past 3 months there's been 3 or 4 occasions where i've had this uber stiff back which lasts 3-6 days, that's the reason i think maybe it needs to be strengthened.  some of the massage therapist dude said i was not resting enough (balling everyday, which i've cut down quite a bit in last 3 weeks) and/or not stretching enough for the amount of exercises i do...  i miss the hot yoga rooms for sure (105F) the heat really helps stretching in my experience.


well, no point in even adding weight to the hypers really.. maybe eventually, but for now, you want to hit high rep sets of like 15-20+ reps, really getting in a ton of blood flow.

vid would definitely help

as lbss eluded to, is your breathing right during squatting? i'm finding that alot of people on here don't know how to breathe during squatting.. before going down, breathe in huge through the nose, valsalva, go down, come up, breathe out 3 quarters of the way up.. so you're basically holding your breathe for the rep.

peace

ghettoracer

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Re: walking lunges vs. box step up?
« Reply #24 on: October 08, 2010, 09:07:31 pm »
0
this week i'm busy with work so have not gym at all, also giving the back more rest...  i did play indoor on monday night running with a bunch of college professors.  good hoop iq games are always fun in their own ways, much less athletically challenging but enjoyable when the team understand what (and why) each person is doing.  :-)

after indoor last night (~1.5 hour of solid running full court) i tried a few standing jump and 2 leg running jumps.  i'm happy to report that although i have not weight trained as much as i wanted to (due to the re-occurring stiff back) i have gained about 2" over since i started hitting the weight racks more steadily (started about 3 months ago). now from standing jump i can just barely touch the bottom of a 10 feet rim with my middle finger and my running 2 feet is about 2-2.5" over the rim now. :-) still down from my peak 10 years when i was mid 20's which was ~5" over the rim. but i'm happy to report a slight gain/recovery in vertical.
current stats: age: 42 :: 5'11" (180cm) :: 180lbs (82kg) bf ~30% :: reach: 90" or 7'6" (230cm) :: wing span: 6" (183cm)
12 week goal(current): SQ 115kg(100), DL 130kg(110), BP 80kg(70), reduce weight to 75kg (165 lbs) and bf to ~25%
status: excellent cardio condition, new 5x5 program, 10' rim touch okay, RVJ ~30"
PR RVJ ~34" 10'5" touch @ age ~25 (worst was ~6" below rim when i was @ 190 lbs ~35% body fat ~23" RVJ in 2007-8

adarqui

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Re: walking lunges vs. box step up?
« Reply #25 on: October 09, 2010, 02:49:41 am »
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this week i'm busy with work so have not gym at all, also giving the back more rest...  i did play indoor on monday night running with a bunch of college professors.  good hoop iq games are always fun in their own ways, much less athletically challenging but enjoyable when the team understand what (and why) each person is doing.  :-)

after indoor last night (~1.5 hour of solid running full court) i tried a few standing jump and 2 leg running jumps.  i'm happy to report that although i have not weight trained as much as i wanted to (due to the re-occurring stiff back) i have gained about 2" over since i started hitting the weight racks more steadily (started about 3 months ago). now from standing jump i can just barely touch the bottom of a 10 feet rim with my middle finger and my running 2 feet is about 2-2.5" over the rim now. :-) still down from my peak 10 years when i was mid 20's which was ~5" over the rim. but i'm happy to report a slight gain/recovery in vertical.

good job man, it's coming back!

ghettoracer

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Re: walking lunges vs. box step up?
« Reply #26 on: October 24, 2010, 11:59:20 am »
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back still giving me issues in the past 2 weeks so i have not done any weights  :-(  , just hoop about 4 times a week.   got the back worked on 3 times in the last 2 weeks (1 hour sessions) by a new massage guy.  he seems pretty skilled.  he's able to reduce the stiffness every time he works on it but every day just after an hour or 2 of hard running basketball it still stiffs up.  i've schedule for an xray tomorrow to play it safe.  i decided to get back on the weights (just not gonna squat for a while until i really figure out what the heck is going on with it).

45 deg hyper extensions 3x25
incline db press 40 1x10 (warm up), 60 2x8, 80 1x8 (left outer shoulder still have pain :( )
flat db press 60 1x10 (warm up), 80 3x8, 90 1x8 (+3 reps @ 90 vs. last time)
machine bench press 50 1x10 (warm up), 100 1x8, 110 1x8, 120 1x8 (straining on 120lbs but pushed through)
machine pec flies 70 1x10 (warm up), 100 1x8, 110 1x8, 120 1x8 (also straining @ 120, left outer shoulder pain also shows on this)
alt. incline db curl 15 1x10, 20 1x8, 25 1x2 (too much strain), 20 1x9
barbell curl 18kg 3x8

still some time left for the 1 hour session that i paid so i added 2 back exercise just to work it some.

lat. pull downs 80 1x10 (warm up), 100 1x8, 110 2x8 (+ 10lbs over last time, really tough last 2 reps)
machine rows 50 1x10 (warm up), 80 1x8, 100 1x8, 110 1x8 (used machine instead of barbell.  don't wanna tax the back too much yet)

25 reps of hypers kinda drove me nuts with the number of repetition.  i used to hold a 15kg plate and do 10 reps...  the strain in the last couple of reps feels about the same as high reps with out weight.  is the extra reps with out weight that much better?  just noticed you recommended 5 sets but i only did 3x25.  i will do 5x20 next time.

--

just got back from the doctor the xray shows my spine to be in perfect alignment.  i'm relieved that it's nothing bad like herniated discs or anything like that.  just muscle fatigue or pulled muscle.  the doc recommended muscle relaxers (optional) and rest.  at the local riverbank where i used to ball a lot there's a guy in his early 40's he's a pharmacist and he's mentioned muscle relaxers before.  he said there are no bad side effects and taking it helps a lot of the older 40+ ballers.  is the no side effects part true?  any first hand experience.
 
--

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMpv7L97p6k" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMpv7L97p6k</a>

this video is shot the same day (5pm) as the one i upload few weeks ago (9:30pm after few hours of full court).  it was over the 15 minute limit and i finally got around to chop it to 15 min youtube limit.  as you can see it is way less lazy...
« Last Edit: October 25, 2010, 12:39:38 am by ghettoracer »
current stats: age: 42 :: 5'11" (180cm) :: 180lbs (82kg) bf ~30% :: reach: 90" or 7'6" (230cm) :: wing span: 6" (183cm)
12 week goal(current): SQ 115kg(100), DL 130kg(110), BP 80kg(70), reduce weight to 75kg (165 lbs) and bf to ~25%
status: excellent cardio condition, new 5x5 program, 10' rim touch okay, RVJ ~30"
PR RVJ ~34" 10'5" touch @ age ~25 (worst was ~6" below rim when i was @ 190 lbs ~35% body fat ~23" RVJ in 2007-8

adarqui

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Re: walking lunges vs. box step up?
« Reply #27 on: October 25, 2010, 02:32:36 am »
0
back still giving me issues in the past 2 weeks so i have not done any weights  :-(  , just hoop about 4 times a week.   got the back worked on 3 times in the last 2 weeks (1 hour sessions) by a new massage guy.  he seems pretty skilled.  he's able to reduce the stiffness every time he works on it but every day just after an hour or 2 of hard running basketball it still stiffs up.  i've schedule for an xray tomorrow to play it safe.  i decided to get back on the weights (just not gonna squat for a while until i really figure out what the heck is going on with it).

sucks that your back still acting up :/



Quote

45 deg hyper extensions 3x25
incline db press 40 1x10 (warm up), 60 2x8, 80 1x8 (left outer shoulder still have pain :( )
flat db press 60 1x10 (warm up), 80 3x8, 90 1x8 (+3 reps @ 90 vs. last time)
machine bench press 50 1x10 (warm up), 100 1x8, 110 1x8, 120 1x8 (straining on 120lbs but pushed through)
machine pec flies 70 1x10 (warm up), 100 1x8, 110 1x8, 120 1x8 (also straining @ 120, left outer shoulder pain also shows on this)
alt. incline db curl 15 1x10, 20 1x8, 25 1x2 (too much strain), 20 1x9
barbell curl 18kg 3x8

still some time left for the 1 hour session that i paid so i added 2 back exercise just to work it some.

lat. pull downs 80 1x10 (warm up), 100 1x8, 110 2x8 (+ 10lbs over last time, really tough last 2 reps)
machine rows 50 1x10 (warm up), 80 1x8, 100 1x8, 110 1x8 (used machine instead of barbell.  don't wanna tax the back too much yet)

25 reps of hypers kinda drove me nuts with the number of repetition.  i used to hold a 15kg plate and do 10 reps...  the strain in the last couple of reps feels about the same as high reps with out weight.  is the extra reps with out weight that much better?  just noticed you recommended 5 sets but i only did 3x25.  i will do 5x20 next time.

doesn't matter much, anything in the 15+ rep range is great for blood flow.. so whether it's 3x20 weighted vs 5 x 25-30 non weighted, both are very good for blood flow/rehab.



Quote
--

just got back from the doctor the xray shows my spine to be in perfect alignment.  i'm relieved that it's nothing bad like herniated discs or anything like that.  just muscle fatigue or pulled muscle.  the doc recommended muscle relaxers (optional) and rest.  at the local riverbank where i used to ball a lot there's a guy in his early 40's he's a pharmacist and he's mentioned muscle relaxers before.  he said there are no bad side effects and taking it helps a lot of the older 40+ ballers.  is the no side effects part true?  any first hand experience.
 
--


no first hand experience here, but, every drug has side effects.. so when you get the name of the SMR they are going to give you, paste it here or just google for side effects.. google: "<drugname> side effects" and you'll get a ton of reputable sites.


Quote
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMpv7L97p6k" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMpv7L97p6k</a>

this video is shot the same day (5pm) as the one i upload few weeks ago (9:30pm after few hours of full court).  it was over the 15 minute limit and i finally got around to chop it to 15 min youtube limit.  as you can see it is way less lazy...

jumper still W E T!@$!@

i thought youtube limit was 10min wtf?

peace

ghettoracer

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Re: walking lunges vs. box step up?
« Reply #28 on: October 25, 2010, 09:52:35 am »
0
i have a regular youtube account, it was a stand alone account originally.  not sure if it makes a difference but few months ago i linked it to my google account.  upload limit says 2GB or 15 minutes in length.

yo dre, saw your log where you freaking dipped below 150!!  dammit!  i've been stuck at 70kg (154 lbs) +/- 1kg for MONTHS.  you've motivated me to get below 150 lbs too.  i'm gonna do a major discipline change.  been sleeping late in the last 1.5 months or so (1-3am usually).  going to bed by 11pm and getting up EARLY to soak up some friendly sun in the morning (tan too).  weights every other day to strengthen back, chest, arms for now.  no more squats until the back soreness goes away...  going to Philippines with my bro and his wife in November.  i need to get cut haha.  Pinoy chicks here I come!   :strong:
« Last Edit: October 25, 2010, 10:07:01 am by ghettoracer »
current stats: age: 42 :: 5'11" (180cm) :: 180lbs (82kg) bf ~30% :: reach: 90" or 7'6" (230cm) :: wing span: 6" (183cm)
12 week goal(current): SQ 115kg(100), DL 130kg(110), BP 80kg(70), reduce weight to 75kg (165 lbs) and bf to ~25%
status: excellent cardio condition, new 5x5 program, 10' rim touch okay, RVJ ~30"
PR RVJ ~34" 10'5" touch @ age ~25 (worst was ~6" below rim when i was @ 190 lbs ~35% body fat ~23" RVJ in 2007-8

adarqui

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Re: walking lunges vs. box step up?
« Reply #29 on: October 26, 2010, 06:17:35 am »
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i have a regular youtube account, it was a stand alone account originally.  not sure if it makes a difference but few months ago i linked it to my google account.  upload limit says 2GB or 15 minutes in length.

yo dre, saw your log where you freaking dipped below 150!!  dammit!  i've been stuck at 70kg (154 lbs) +/- 1kg for MONTHS.  you've motivated me to get below 150 lbs too.  i'm gonna do a major discipline change.  been sleeping late in the last 1.5 months or so (1-3am usually).  going to bed by 11pm and getting up EARLY to soak up some friendly sun in the morning (tan too).  weights every other day to strengthen back, chest, arms for now.  no more squats until the back soreness goes away...  going to Philippines with my bro and his wife in November.  i need to get cut haha.  Pinoy chicks here I come!   :strong:

cool, glad i gave you some motivation haha..

ya man get the hunnies.