Author Topic: A shoe specifically for dunking  (Read 7235 times)

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maxent

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Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2016, 11:20:13 am »
+1
Prob important when you're at the cusp of breaking into new territory. Maybe landing your first dunk or windmill or whtaever. But in my experience, there is a difference in where the weight is. Ive done weighted dunks at ~220lb while weighing ~165lb. But if i put on some ankle weights (around 3kg i think), it changes things a lot more than the weight vest did. It's hard to explain though unless you try it out. I think you do want your feet to be as light as possible.
Making a new strength setpoint of 75/100/150 on OHP/BP/BS.

maxent

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Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2016, 11:22:36 am »
+1
Hey i remember reading someone leaving the top holes for shoelaces empty to get mroe dorsifllexion. Has anyone explore that with basketball shoes, more specifically lowtops that are otherwise perfect? I haven't tried it myself, just curious. Having said that, i haven't really analysed my dunking technique to see if it could benefit from more knee bend. maybe.. will look into itt
Making a new strength setpoint of 75/100/150 on OHP/BP/BS.

adarqui

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Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2016, 11:35:21 am »
0
in my exp. the shoe weight makes no difference lol. unless you were wearing something as heavy as hiking boots thats when it counts, but all ball shoes weigh about the same, i guess the only difference is the placebo a light shoe would give you lol.

i'm weak af. when i put on my hyperdunks, i walk around for like 2 seconds, then i take them off. they feel horrible.

shoe weight definitely makes a difference for me.. it could all be mental, but that's still significant. All I know is I wouldn't want to run/sprint/"do plyometrics" in basketball shoes.. i'd rather do that in XC flats.. so if i'd rather "fly" in XC flats, why would I ever want to wear basketball shoes? ... especially since I don't actually play basketball anymore.

so that's why I have this problem with basketball shoes.. they have all of this extra support/protection/weight for playing basketball, which I don't play. If someone made a ~4-5 oz XC flat style shoe but, with a stronger sole for jumping, I think i'd be in heaven.

the lightest shoes I have right now are my NB 5000 v2 running shoes .. which I enjoyed jumping in until I hurt my heel. I kind of think jumping in those shoes was more risky than my XC flats because even thoug they have more heel protection (for running), it's this hard foam-like substance that I think shifted when I planted in my SLRVJ.. which caused some kind of damage to my "heel area'. Now it flares up slightly on occasion when jumping in my XC flats - but never to the initial extent when I injured it in my NB 5000 v2's. My XC flats are more like ~5 oz and have a strong rubber on the bottom, instead of that weird space-age foam material. I think it offers more protection.

I should have designed myself a damn shoe .. i'll do that in the future.  :headbang: :ibrunning: :ibjumping:

I want one shoe I can run, sprint, jump, and dunk in.. :D

adarqui

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Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2016, 11:37:55 am »
0
Prob important when you're at the cusp of breaking into new territory. Maybe landing your first dunk or windmill or whtaever. But in my experience, there is a difference in where the weight is. Ive done weighted dunks at ~220lb while weighing ~165lb. But if i put on some ankle weights (around 3kg i think), it changes things a lot more than the weight vest did. It's hard to explain though unless you try it out. I think you do want your feet to be as light as possible.

lmao.. 10 lb ankle weights on each ankle vs 20 lb. weight vest, wrecked. ;f

ya I think ankle weights shut down the thigh muscles more (because of the extra torque it puts on the knee), during a runup for example. So you get less speed/power/aggressiveness in your approach and THEN you still have more weight on you..

adarqui

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Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
« Reply #19 on: September 04, 2016, 11:41:24 am »
0
Hey i remember reading someone leaving the top holes for shoelaces empty to get mroe dorsifllexion. Has anyone explore that with basketball shoes, more specifically lowtops that are otherwise perfect? I haven't tried it myself, just curious. Having said that, i haven't really analysed my dunking technique to see if it could benefit from more knee bend. maybe.. will look into itt

i did that naturally alot when i played basketball, just hated the laces dig into my ankles.

not sure though.. kind of interesting.

One thing I loved about the way I jumped/dunked 5 years ago was, I never worried about technique at all.. I simply focused on building more horse power, getting lighter, learning how to "stim" myself through MSEM & caffeine & concentrated blocks + deloading etc.. So it's kind of funny how with running and SLRVJ, i've gone on these tangents of analyzing my form etc. I think I had it right the first time........ Though, I am glad i'm changing up my running/SLRVJ form because:

1. my midfoot running form changes will only allow me to go much faster in the future
2. my recent "less heel contact" for my SLRVJ will probably protect my feet/heel more when planting in SLRVJ

so perhaps two good things to come from some overanalysis.. dno yet.

pc!

ADot

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Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
« Reply #20 on: September 04, 2016, 11:47:49 am »
+1
I'm going to get a second pair shoes for dunking,basketball,training. My current basketball shoes are good for basketball. But pretty bad for jumping and training.

ADot

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Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
« Reply #21 on: September 04, 2016, 12:04:39 pm »
+2
Footlocker here I come.

adarqui

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Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
« Reply #22 on: September 04, 2016, 12:20:02 pm »
0
I'm going to get a second pair shoes for dunking,basketball,training. My current basketball shoes are good for basketball. But pretty bad for jumping and training.

Footlocker here I come.

nice!

i've been meaning to order some new Saucony Shay XC 4's .. I think I will do that today actually. I have a worn out pair & a somewhat fresh pair. These shoes feel so incredibly bouncy when they are brand new. They hold up so well with all of the different stuff I do in them. These are my goto shoes right now because I literally do everything in them: run, sprint, jump, dunk, lift. They are very minimal though so, most people wouldn't feel comfortable jumping/dunking in them. They are also the most narrow shoes I have ... which I think is something I love about them. Feel like a glove on my feet.

http://www.adarq.org/shoes/saucony-shay-xc4-flat

T0ddday

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Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
« Reply #23 on: September 04, 2016, 03:14:44 pm »
+1
Prob important when you're at the cusp of breaking into new territory. Maybe landing your first dunk or windmill or whtaever. But in my experience, there is a difference in where the weight is. Ive done weighted dunks at ~220lb while weighing ~165lb. But if i put on some ankle weights (around 3kg i think), it changes things a lot more than the weight vest did. It's hard to explain though unless you try it out. I think you do want your feet to be as light as possible.

First of all...

That's impressive as fuck. 

Doing 220lb dunks at 160 is ridiculous.  I don't know how many inches a dunk is for you but if I assume you need a 30 inch jump to dunk... Then taking off the weight should give you a 41 inch jump... How far is this from truth?

As far as where the weight is... Your totally right, I don't like ankle weights for this reason.  However any added weight should give a minimum boost of weight_vest/bw * weighted jump.  That's where I get the 41 inch jump from.  This is the least you should gain though... Weight hurts in different places besides this.  If your not getting this gain when you take the weight off you need to do "over speed" work.  Basically what sprinters do when we tow them.  Harder to set up for a jump but possible w bands.  Basically you need to work on producing them same force for a "lighter" (accelerating body).

IMO the most challenging weights are thigh weights.  Weight there just kills the jump. 

T0ddday

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Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
« Reply #24 on: September 04, 2016, 03:17:41 pm »
+1
in my exp. the shoe weight makes no difference lol. unless you were wearing something as heavy as hiking boots thats when it counts, but all ball shoes weigh about the same, i guess the only difference is the placebo a light shoe would give you lol.

i'm weak af. when i put on my hyperdunks, i walk around for like 2 seconds, then i take them off. they feel horrible.

shoe weight definitely makes a difference for me.. it could all be mental, but that's still significant. All I know is I wouldn't want to run/sprint/"do plyometrics" in basketball shoes.. i'd rather do that in XC flats.. so if i'd rather "fly" in XC flats, why would I ever want to wear basketball shoes? ... especially since I don't actually play basketball anymore.

so that's why I have this problem with basketball shoes.. they have all of this extra support/protection/weight for playing basketball, which I don't play. If someone made a ~4-5 oz XC flat style shoe but, with a stronger sole for jumping, I think i'd be in heaven.

the lightest shoes I have right now are my NB 5000 v2 running shoes .. which I enjoyed jumping in until I hurt my heel. I kind of think jumping in those shoes was more risky than my XC flats because even thoug they have more heel protection (for running), it's this hard foam-like substance that I think shifted when I planted in my SLRVJ.. which caused some kind of damage to my "heel area'. Now it flares up slightly on occasion when jumping in my XC flats - but never to the initial extent when I injured it in my NB 5000 v2's. My XC flats are more like ~5 oz and have a strong rubber on the bottom, instead of that weird space-age foam material. I think it offers more protection.

I should have designed myself a damn shoe .. i'll do that in the future.  :headbang: :ibrunning: :ibjumping:

I want one shoe I can run, sprint, jump, and dunk in.. :D

Get puma biowebs.

My problem w true flats is that while I jump higher... I'm also shorter.  I'm 5'11 in flats and 6'1 in bball shoes... I jump moderately higher in flats (especially single leg and running jumps) but for drop step dunks I think it's kinda a stalemate... Jump an inch higher or be an inch taller?  What's best?

The ultimate shoe for jumping is a negative heel shoe.  Studies show this is by far the best thing.  Hard to find.  You can however make your own inserts w duct tape and insoles and it can be dramatic.  About half an inch higher at the toe that the heel and you will fly. 

adarqui

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Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
« Reply #25 on: September 04, 2016, 04:07:26 pm »
0
in my exp. the shoe weight makes no difference lol. unless you were wearing something as heavy as hiking boots thats when it counts, but all ball shoes weigh about the same, i guess the only difference is the placebo a light shoe would give you lol.

i'm weak af. when i put on my hyperdunks, i walk around for like 2 seconds, then i take them off. they feel horrible.

shoe weight definitely makes a difference for me.. it could all be mental, but that's still significant. All I know is I wouldn't want to run/sprint/"do plyometrics" in basketball shoes.. i'd rather do that in XC flats.. so if i'd rather "fly" in XC flats, why would I ever want to wear basketball shoes? ... especially since I don't actually play basketball anymore.

so that's why I have this problem with basketball shoes.. they have all of this extra support/protection/weight for playing basketball, which I don't play. If someone made a ~4-5 oz XC flat style shoe but, with a stronger sole for jumping, I think i'd be in heaven.

the lightest shoes I have right now are my NB 5000 v2 running shoes .. which I enjoyed jumping in until I hurt my heel. I kind of think jumping in those shoes was more risky than my XC flats because even thoug they have more heel protection (for running), it's this hard foam-like substance that I think shifted when I planted in my SLRVJ.. which caused some kind of damage to my "heel area'. Now it flares up slightly on occasion when jumping in my XC flats - but never to the initial extent when I injured it in my NB 5000 v2's. My XC flats are more like ~5 oz and have a strong rubber on the bottom, instead of that weird space-age foam material. I think it offers more protection.

I should have designed myself a damn shoe .. i'll do that in the future.  :headbang: :ibrunning: :ibjumping:

I want one shoe I can run, sprint, jump, and dunk in.. :D

Get puma biowebs.

My problem w true flats is that while I jump higher... I'm also shorter.  I'm 5'11 in flats and 6'1 in bball shoes... I jump moderately higher in flats (especially single leg and running jumps) but for drop step dunks I think it's kinda a stalemate... Jump an inch higher or be an inch taller?  What's best?

tbh ... i'll take an inch more vert - i think.. HAH

on that note.. I should start stretching my lats more to give me an extra inch of reach or something.. it can potentially help.



Quote
The ultimate shoe for jumping is a negative heel shoe.  Studies show this is by far the best thing.  Hard to find.  You can however make your own inserts w duct tape and insoles and it can be dramatic.  About half an inch higher at the toe that the heel and you will fly.

are these "negative heel"? I mean, I always feel like im sinking slightly into my heel with them.. you feel it especially when squatting.

i always considered these 0.. but, you can see they have a prominent forefoot architecture to them.


LBSS

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Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
« Reply #26 on: September 04, 2016, 06:39:33 pm »
+2
in my exp. the shoe weight makes no difference lol. unless you were wearing something as heavy as hiking boots thats when it counts, but all ball shoes weigh about the same, i guess the only difference is the placebo a light shoe would give you lol.

don't underestimate placebo.
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maxent

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Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
« Reply #27 on: September 04, 2016, 09:27:24 pm »
+1
Prob important when you're at the cusp of breaking into new territory. Maybe landing your first dunk or windmill or whtaever. But in my experience, there is a difference in where the weight is. Ive done weighted dunks at ~220lb while weighing ~165lb. But if i put on some ankle weights (around 3kg i think), it changes things a lot more than the weight vest did. It's hard to explain though unless you try it out. I think you do want your feet to be as light as possible.

First of all...

That's impressive as fuck. 

Doing 220lb dunks at 160 is ridiculous.  I don't know how many inches a dunk is for you but if I assume you need a 30 inch jump to dunk... Then taking off the weight should give you a 41 inch jump... How far is this from truth?

As far as where the weight is... Your totally right, I don't like ankle weights for this reason.  However any added weight should give a minimum boost of weight_vest/bw * weighted jump.  That's where I get the 41 inch jump from.  This is the least you should gain though... Weight hurts in different places besides this.  If your not getting this gain when you take the weight off you need to do "over speed" work.  Basically what sprinters do when we tow them.  Harder to set up for a jump but possible w bands.  Basically you need to work on producing them same force for a "lighter" (accelerating body).

IMO the most challenging weights are thigh weights.  Weight there just kills the jump.

Damn, didnt you see the vid? pretty sure i put it up haha. I will put it up on my insta @maxentr0py .. check it out later today. It wasn't that special tbh cos form to get a +25kg dunk is like the form when you are straining to get that first tip dunk .. but with me when i get it i was hitting the rim so hard it went thru super hard. take the vest off and dunks become submaxier but so what, not like im getting my head at the rim.. i dont know, i dont think there is much benefit to training at those extremes. i think the best weighted dunks were the ones i got around +5-7kg where i was getting a good workout without changing form too drastically.
Making a new strength setpoint of 75/100/150 on OHP/BP/BS.

T0ddday

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Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
« Reply #28 on: September 05, 2016, 05:00:17 am »
0
Prob important when you're at the cusp of breaking into new territory. Maybe landing your first dunk or windmill or whtaever. But in my experience, there is a difference in where the weight is. Ive done weighted dunks at ~220lb while weighing ~165lb. But if i put on some ankle weights (around 3kg i think), it changes things a lot more than the weight vest did. It's hard to explain though unless you try it out. I think you do want your feet to be as light as possible.

First of all...

That's impressive as fuck. 

Doing 220lb dunks at 160 is ridiculous.  I don't know how many inches a dunk is for you but if I assume you need a 30 inch jump to dunk... Then taking off the weight should give you a 41 inch jump... How far is this from truth?

As far as where the weight is... Your totally right, I don't like ankle weights for this reason.  However any added weight should give a minimum boost of weight_vest/bw * weighted jump.  That's where I get the 41 inch jump from.  This is the least you should gain though... Weight hurts in different places besides this.  If your not getting this gain when you take the weight off you need to do "over speed" work.  Basically what sprinters do when we tow them.  Harder to set up for a jump but possible w bands.  Basically you need to work on producing them same force for a "lighter" (accelerating body).

IMO the most challenging weights are thigh weights.  Weight there just kills the jump.

Damn, didnt you see the vid? pretty sure i put it up haha. I will put it up on my insta @maxentr0py .. check it out later today. It wasn't that special tbh cos form to get a +25kg dunk is like the form when you are straining to get that first tip dunk .. but with me when i get it i was hitting the rim so hard it went thru super hard. take the vest off and dunks become submaxier but so what, not like im getting my head at the rim.. i dont know, i dont think there is much benefit to training at those extremes. i think the best weighted dunks were the ones i got around +5-7kg where i was getting a good workout without changing form too drastically.

I can't tell which are you videos are weighted on ig.  They all look unweighted. 

As far as the optimal weight to use, it's not really an amount in weight.  The optimal amount of weight to use is as much as possible where you can still jump high.  You basically just figure out where you are in carryover to maximize gains.  So, if I load up with 220 lbs of weight I might jump 10 inches.  Then if I take the vest off and create the same power..... I'll just 20 inches.... I can already jump higher than 20 inches.  So, that means just having that much weight inhibits my ability to make power - not worth it. 

However your talking about dunking with 60 lbs of weight on... It's hard to tell how high you get up on your dunks so it would be better if you knew how high you were actually jumping.  What's your actual max jump?  For me I use an absolute maximum of 20lbs reisistance because anything less and I can't jump high enough to dunk, w 20lbs on a I can get 36" on a good day and I can count on that boost to get my 20% more without vest...

Even if your a couple inches taller and your jumping only 34" to dunk... If your 220 w resistance and 160 without... There really is no way you can't hit 40".  I just don't get it.  60 lbs additional to a 160 dude and he still jumps 34??? That guy jumps 40!

maxent

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Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
« Reply #29 on: September 05, 2016, 05:35:30 am »
+1
sorry, insta is annoying, i cant upload directly from pc,cant be bothered with all of that, will just use youtube..

edit, so this is what i put up in my log
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4WgRtg0veg

and this one was done a week later
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnrfyIKbyAU
also have the unweighted dunks after that;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0HDbet8omU

i did heavier than that the following weeks but i dont have that on tape. a nd the last set of weighted dunks i have on tape (days before the comp) but it's full HD and the vid is like 1-4gb .. will take too long to upload unless i edit but i dont have any decent editor available (linux is a ghetto).
« Last Edit: September 05, 2016, 05:53:54 am by maxent »
Making a new strength setpoint of 75/100/150 on OHP/BP/BS.