Author Topic: A shoe specifically for dunking  (Read 10390 times)

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seifullaah73

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Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
« Reply #30 on: September 05, 2016, 10:53:40 am »
0
Wow, those dunks just look too easy for you, love the tomahawk dunk, without the weighted vest on first link.
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T0ddday

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Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
« Reply #31 on: September 05, 2016, 11:10:49 am »
0
sorry, insta is annoying, i cant upload directly from pc,cant be bothered with all of that, will just use youtube..

edit, so this is what i put up in my log
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4WgRtg0veg

and this one was done a week later
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnrfyIKbyAU
also have the unweighted dunks after that;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0HDbet8omU

i did heavier than that the following weeks but i dont have that on tape. a nd the last set of weighted dunks i have on tape (days before the comp) but it's full HD and the vid is like 1-4gb .. will take too long to upload unless i edit but i dont have any decent editor available (linux is a ghetto).

Hmm... Well I guess dunks are sort of a hard measure to use.  You seem to be pretty proficient at it.  The most important question is... How high are you jumping? 

What it looks like is with 95kg your hardly getting up.  To my eye it looks like about 24 inches off the ground.  Going back to your natural weight of 75kg you would expect a 1.25 boost or a 32 inch jump - maybe you jumping more like 33 in the dunks...

That's what it looks like... What's the actual height?  I mean if I recall you only like 6'2 but honestly the air space in the videos looks off... I mean I don't know guys in that height range that can dunk like you, like the stretch style.   I guess it just requires you to measure arm length and actual vertical...

maxent

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Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
« Reply #32 on: September 05, 2016, 11:23:59 am »
0
Wow, those dunks just look too easy for you, love the tomahawk dunk, without the weighted vest on first link.
 :ibjumping:

thanks. i got lighter and leaner and stronger over the following coupla weeks ... pity i didn't peak my vertical :( was too busy making up for a lack of fitness by tryna do last minute conditioning lol. i did weighted sprint intervals and loads of treadmill running etc. was not good for athleticism. plus in this shoe thread, in that vid im wearing my oversized heavy shoes (for training effect). they fell apart from the weighted dunking tho .. so i cant use that strategy anymore. just as well, i dont think it was worthwhile..
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maxent

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Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
« Reply #33 on: September 05, 2016, 11:27:01 am »
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sorry, insta is annoying, i cant upload directly from pc,cant be bothered with all of that, will just use youtube..

edit, so this is what i put up in my log
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4WgRtg0veg

and this one was done a week later
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnrfyIKbyAU
also have the unweighted dunks after that;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0HDbet8omU

i did heavier than that the following weeks but i dont have that on tape. a nd the last set of weighted dunks i have on tape (days before the comp) but it's full HD and the vid is like 1-4gb .. will take too long to upload unless i edit but i dont have any decent editor available (linux is a ghetto).

Hmm... Well I guess dunks are sort of a hard measure to use.  You seem to be pretty proficient at it.  The most important question is... How high are you jumping? 

What it looks like is with 95kg your hardly getting up.  To my eye it looks like about 24 inches off the ground.  Going back to your natural weight of 75kg you would expect a 1.25 boost or a 32 inch jump - maybe you jumping more like 33 in the dunks...

That's what it looks like... What's the actual height?  I mean if I recall you only like 6'2 but honestly the air space in the videos looks off... I mean I don't know guys in that height range that can dunk like you, like the stretch style.   I guess it just requires you to measure arm length and actual vertical...

yep by comp time i was really profficient. i cud literally jump out of bed cold and do a submax dunk without even trying. i have long thought my dunking is overspecialised, i cud prob benefit from trying different things to mix things up like approaching from the other side of the rim, changing plant, doing SL dunks etc. Just to improve my athleticism. My reach is 98" barefoot. it goes up a little with shoes. but ya im not jumping high on weighted dunks above 85kg. around 95-100kg im llucky to land one, most are misses. but. i think i get more air and more normal form when using about +10kg than i do with more than that. my new weight vest (i left the old one in brisbane after the comp) only goes up to 10kg so that shud keep my addiction to adidng weight in check
Training for sub 20 5K & 40" RVJ & 170kg BS @ 85kg bw. log entry template

maxent

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Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
« Reply #34 on: September 05, 2016, 11:49:02 am »
+2
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8CnejSEQDw" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8CnejSEQDw</a>

interesting .. this is from 2015, cliffs:

10. Nike Lebron 13
9. Nike Kobe 10
8. Nike Kyrie 1
7. Nike Hyperrev 2015
6. Nike Hyperdunk 2015
5. Nike Kd 8
4. Nike Zoom Lebron Soldier 9
3. Nike KD Trey 5 iii
2. Nike KB Mentality
1. Nike Hyperquickness 2015

mine are 2, kb mentality. and yea i agree they're pretty light but i want lighter lol. and i think (not confirmed) the kb mentality 2 are lighter. may get a pair of those or the kb 11s, not sure which, hmmmm.
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adarqui

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Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
« Reply #35 on: September 05, 2016, 01:06:23 pm »
0
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8CnejSEQDw" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8CnejSEQDw</a>

interesting .. this is from 2015, cliffs:

10. Nike Lebron 13
9. Nike Kobe 10
8. Nike Kyrie 1
7. Nike Hyperrev 2015
6. Nike Hyperdunk 2015
5. Nike Kd 8
4. Nike Zoom Lebron Soldier 9
3. Nike KD Trey 5 iii
2. Nike KB Mentality
1. Nike Hyperquickness 2015

mine are 2, kb mentality. and yea i agree they're pretty light but i want lighter lol. and i think (not confirmed) the kb mentality 2 are lighter. may get a pair of those or the kb 11s, not sure which, hmmmm.

starting at 19oz and ending at 12oz..  :uhhhfacepalm:

crazy. but ya those are bball shoes. The shoes LBSS talks about are ~7-8 oz:

Lotto Men's Quaranta VIP Tennis Shoe

http://www.tennisexpress.com/LOTTO-Mens-Quaranta-VIP-Shoes-Cement-and-Silver-Metal-50035?gclid=Cj0KEQjwr7S-BRD96_uw9JK8uNABEiQAujbffBJyu8D9C1TZbGTh7-9rrxqJVvEltMeQhNiBqPs97CgaAjb78P8HAQ



those VIP's feel pretty good but I never jumped in them.. mostly because I had to put insoles in mine because the "cushion insole" ripped out.

T0ddday

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Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
« Reply #36 on: September 05, 2016, 01:54:29 pm »
0
sorry, insta is annoying, i cant upload directly from pc,cant be bothered with all of that, will just use youtube..

edit, so this is what i put up in my log
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4WgRtg0veg

and this one was done a week later
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnrfyIKbyAU
also have the unweighted dunks after that;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0HDbet8omU

i did heavier than that the following weeks but i dont have that on tape. a nd the last set of weighted dunks i have on tape (days before the comp) but it's full HD and the vid is like 1-4gb .. will take too long to upload unless i edit but i dont have any decent editor available (linux is a ghetto).

Hmm... Well I guess dunks are sort of a hard measure to use.  You seem to be pretty proficient at it.  The most important question is... How high are you jumping? 

What it looks like is with 95kg your hardly getting up.  To my eye it looks like about 24 inches off the ground.  Going back to your natural weight of 75kg you would expect a 1.25 boost or a 32 inch jump - maybe you jumping more like 33 in the dunks...

That's what it looks like... What's the actual height?  I mean if I recall you only like 6'2 but honestly the air space in the videos looks off... I mean I don't know guys in that height range that can dunk like you, like the stretch style.   I guess it just requires you to measure arm length and actual vertical...

yep by comp time i was really profficient. i cud literally jump out of bed cold and do a submax dunk without even trying. i have long thought my dunking is overspecialised, i cud prob benefit from trying different things to mix things up like approaching from the other side of the rim, changing plant, doing SL dunks etc. Just to improve my athleticism. My reach is 98" barefoot. it goes up a little with shoes. but ya im not jumping high on weighted dunks above 85kg. around 95-100kg im llucky to land one, most are misses. but. i think i get more air and more normal form when using about +10kg than i do with more than that. my new weight vest (i left the old one in brisbane after the comp) only goes up to 10kg so that shud keep my addiction to adidng weight in check

Ah ok.  That makes more sense.  Your reach in shoes has you only about 20" away from the rim.  And with your palming ability your really able to dunk without getting up...  I agree that your probably right that being 100kg is far too heavy for you but I wouldn't be surprised if 10kg is overkill as well...  Remember the similarity between running and sprinting that separates elite from the rest - accelerating a light body...  Best results are around 10% of bw for most people and you are lighter than 100kg.

At your level I would just use the formula I mentioned.  Vbw/bw * vested_jump = predicted-jump.  Use the most weight you can until the drop off in predicted jump falls.  Like if your max jump is 35" and your predicted jump w 5kg,6kg,7kg,8kg is 32,33,33,31... You would want 7kg and train to push this up past 35". 

If you are already at the point where a heavy vested jump puts your predicted jump far past your actual jump.... the DO NOT use the weight vest!  Your are so far to the right on the strength curve that you are wasting your time with vested jumps.  This is where I assumed you were but there's a good chance I'm wrong in light of your reach being as high as it is... But if you are here you really don't need to build this motor - making it more powerful when you already don't know how use it will set you back in the long term...  I had a good discussion about this with one of the elite coaches and he talked about how rare this is (most sprinters and jumpers are weak and extremely efficient) but how if you find someone here you need to get them to harness their power asap.

maxent

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Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
« Reply #37 on: September 05, 2016, 09:49:08 pm »
0
Hmm i thought the KB Mentality was around 9 ounces? Which is light for a basketball shoe but it hits the usual areas we need to play with as well as jump. But i do agree 7 sounds a lot better! Hope eventually the technology goes the right way, it's ridiculous how bakwards basketball shoes are. Urgh. Im going to check out some today irl and if i like them will put in an ebay order.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2016, 09:50:57 pm by maxent »
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maxent

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Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
« Reply #38 on: September 05, 2016, 09:52:40 pm »
0
sorry, insta is annoying, i cant upload directly from pc,cant be bothered with all of that, will just use youtube..

edit, so this is what i put up in my log
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4WgRtg0veg

and this one was done a week later
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnrfyIKbyAU
also have the unweighted dunks after that;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0HDbet8omU

i did heavier than that the following weeks but i dont have that on tape. a nd the last set of weighted dunks i have on tape (days before the comp) but it's full HD and the vid is like 1-4gb .. will take too long to upload unless i edit but i dont have any decent editor available (linux is a ghetto).

Hmm... Well I guess dunks are sort of a hard measure to use.  You seem to be pretty proficient at it.  The most important question is... How high are you jumping? 

What it looks like is with 95kg your hardly getting up.  To my eye it looks like about 24 inches off the ground.  Going back to your natural weight of 75kg you would expect a 1.25 boost or a 32 inch jump - maybe you jumping more like 33 in the dunks...

That's what it looks like... What's the actual height?  I mean if I recall you only like 6'2 but honestly the air space in the videos looks off... I mean I don't know guys in that height range that can dunk like you, like the stretch style.   I guess it just requires you to measure arm length and actual vertical...

yep by comp time i was really profficient. i cud literally jump out of bed cold and do a submax dunk without even trying. i have long thought my dunking is overspecialised, i cud prob benefit from trying different things to mix things up like approaching from the other side of the rim, changing plant, doing SL dunks etc. Just to improve my athleticism. My reach is 98" barefoot. it goes up a little with shoes. but ya im not jumping high on weighted dunks above 85kg. around 95-100kg im llucky to land one, most are misses. but. i think i get more air and more normal form when using about +10kg than i do with more than that. my new weight vest (i left the old one in brisbane after the comp) only goes up to 10kg so that shud keep my addiction to adidng weight in check

Ah ok.  That makes more sense.  Your reach in shoes has you only about 20" away from the rim.  And with your palming ability your really able to dunk without getting up...  I agree that your probably right that being 100kg is far too heavy for you but I wouldn't be surprised if 10kg is overkill as well...  Remember the similarity between running and sprinting that separates elite from the rest - accelerating a light body...  Best results are around 10% of bw for most people and you are lighter than 100kg.

At your level I would just use the formula I mentioned.  Vbw/bw * vested_jump = predicted-jump.  Use the most weight you can until the drop off in predicted jump falls.  Like if your max jump is 35" and your predicted jump w 5kg,6kg,7kg,8kg is 32,33,33,31... You would want 7kg and train to push this up past 35". 

If you are already at the point where a heavy vested jump puts your predicted jump far past your actual jump.... the DO NOT use the weight vest!  Your are so far to the right on the strength curve that you are wasting your time with vested jumps.  This is where I assumed you were but there's a good chance I'm wrong in light of your reach being as high as it is... But if you are here you really don't need to build this motor - making it more powerful when you already don't know how use it will set you back in the long term...  I had a good discussion about this with one of the elite coaches and he talked about how rare this is (most sprinters and jumpers are weak and extremely efficient) but how if you find someone here you need to get them to harness their power asap.

It explains why i struggle to get eg a windmill, cos my airtime is low i don thave enough time to go thru the motions. That was my working theory anyway! Even on loewr rims i cant land a windmill :(
Training for sub 20 5K & 40" RVJ & 170kg BS @ 85kg bw. log entry template

T0ddday

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Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
« Reply #39 on: September 06, 2016, 01:53:18 am »
0
sorry, insta is annoying, i cant upload directly from pc,cant be bothered with all of that, will just use youtube..

edit, so this is what i put up in my log
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4WgRtg0veg

and this one was done a week later
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnrfyIKbyAU
also have the unweighted dunks after that;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0HDbet8omU

i did heavier than that the following weeks but i dont have that on tape. a nd the last set of weighted dunks i have on tape (days before the comp) but it's full HD and the vid is like 1-4gb .. will take too long to upload unless i edit but i dont have any decent editor available (linux is a ghetto).

Hmm... Well I guess dunks are sort of a hard measure to use.  You seem to be pretty proficient at it.  The most important question is... How high are you jumping? 

What it looks like is with 95kg your hardly getting up.  To my eye it looks like about 24 inches off the ground.  Going back to your natural weight of 75kg you would expect a 1.25 boost or a 32 inch jump - maybe you jumping more like 33 in the dunks...

That's what it looks like... What's the actual height?  I mean if I recall you only like 6'2 but honestly the air space in the videos looks off... I mean I don't know guys in that height range that can dunk like you, like the stretch style.   I guess it just requires you to measure arm length and actual vertical...

yep by comp time i was really profficient. i cud literally jump out of bed cold and do a submax dunk without even trying. i have long thought my dunking is overspecialised, i cud prob benefit from trying different things to mix things up like approaching from the other side of the rim, changing plant, doing SL dunks etc. Just to improve my athleticism. My reach is 98" barefoot. it goes up a little with shoes. but ya im not jumping high on weighted dunks above 85kg. around 95-100kg im llucky to land one, most are misses. but. i think i get more air and more normal form when using about +10kg than i do with more than that. my new weight vest (i left the old one in brisbane after the comp) only goes up to 10kg so that shud keep my addiction to adidng weight in check

Ah ok.  That makes more sense.  Your reach in shoes has you only about 20" away from the rim.  And with your palming ability your really able to dunk without getting up...  I agree that your probably right that being 100kg is far too heavy for you but I wouldn't be surprised if 10kg is overkill as well...  Remember the similarity between running and sprinting that separates elite from the rest - accelerating a light body...  Best results are around 10% of bw for most people and you are lighter than 100kg.

At your level I would just use the formula I mentioned.  Vbw/bw * vested_jump = predicted-jump.  Use the most weight you can until the drop off in predicted jump falls.  Like if your max jump is 35" and your predicted jump w 5kg,6kg,7kg,8kg is 32,33,33,31... You would want 7kg and train to push this up past 35". 

If you are already at the point where a heavy vested jump puts your predicted jump far past your actual jump.... the DO NOT use the weight vest!  Your are so far to the right on the strength curve that you are wasting your time with vested jumps.  This is where I assumed you were but there's a good chance I'm wrong in light of your reach being as high as it is... But if you are here you really don't need to build this motor - making it more powerful when you already don't know how use it will set you back in the long term...  I had a good discussion about this with one of the elite coaches and he talked about how rare this is (most sprinters and jumpers are weak and extremely efficient) but how if you find someone here you need to get them to harness their power asap.

It explains why i struggle to get eg a windmill, cos my airtime is low i don thave enough time to go thru the motions. That was my working theory anyway! Even on loewr rims i cant land a windmill :(

Lol. Maybe.  Or maybe you just really suck at the movement.  I can get drop step windmills on 10ft, I can do a clean 720 on a 8.5 foot rim but I can't even come close to doing BTL off two feet...   Coordination for these things is weird, when I try BTL I bring my arms down and just kill my jump before I even get off the ground, maybe you do the same w your windmills - once you learn to bring the ball up on your rise and then circle it with split legs it gets a lot easier.  Airtime helps of course but I think the coordination is really the problem.

ADot

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Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
« Reply #40 on: September 08, 2016, 12:52:51 pm »
+1
I remember adidas used to make super light ball shoes
They were 9 to 10 ounces with its high top. The low tops might of been less.  The current version is chunky like 18 ounces.

ADot

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Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
« Reply #41 on: September 08, 2016, 12:54:32 pm »
+1
I might get a racing flat for lifting, bounds and sprints.
Then a low top basketball shoe.

maxent

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Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
« Reply #42 on: October 17, 2017, 05:22:00 am »
+1
After my last pair of shoes im done with the whole basketball shoe market. Adidas zero crazy light are heavy and bulky and not worth the money. However i just got a pair of Adidas running shoes and im starting to believe the right solution for dunking will emerge from a running shoe which can pass for basketball/jumping. I dont know why basketball shoes are so completely useless but apparently no one cares, not the players who are too dumb to realise they're using suboptimal shoes (or they are happy to take money and look the other way), not the consumer because apparently they care more about looks than performance. Not the companies because apparently they dont care about building a better performance shoe. Rant over
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acole14

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Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
« Reply #43 on: October 17, 2017, 06:15:17 am »
0
I totally agree on bball shoes. I realised after wearing lighter, less bulky shoes that bball shoes (even super low cut) are just too heavy/awkward. I run in the Nike XC waffle racers (best running shoes) and I've found the Nike Metcon 3 are a great in-between option, they're essentially running shoes with more structure in the heel for squatting. Great for jumping. lifting and running. Unfortunately it means indirectly supporting crossfit *shudder*...but they really are the best training shoes I've had. Great for basketball too.

LBSS

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Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
« Reply #44 on: October 17, 2017, 08:00:00 am »
0
lotto quaranta iv = greatest dunking shoe. racing-flat light (7-8 ounces), wide/flat sole because designed for tennis (the only issue i had jumping in racing flats was occasionally not feeling enough lateral stability, but that problem vanishes with these), and cheap. only problem is how hard they are to find.

ETA: i have a pair of the quaranta VIP as well -- the exact shoes adarq posted above in fact -- but they're not as good at the iv's. also extremely light but cushier and less firm.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2017, 08:21:09 am by LBSS »
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

sunday: long very easy run 80+ mins @ 5:40+ (14+ km)
monday: strength/cross training
tuesday: easy run 60+ mins @ 5:20-5:30 (11+ km)
wednesday: fartlek (mostly easy pace with mix of strides, hills, long tempo) 45 mins (8+ km)
thursday: easy run 60+ mins @ 5:20-5:30 (11+ km), strength/cross-training
friday: rest
saturday: short tempo 6-8x500 @ sub-4:00 (7 km)

strength would be:
- hops 2x10
- box jumps or ME SVJ 2x5
- squats 3x6-8 or weighted BSS/lunges 3x10/leg
- RDL/hypers 2x10-12 or SLRDL 2x10-12/leg
- upper push myo-reps or sets to technical failure
- upper pull myo-reps or sets to technical failure
- leg raises, holds, pallof presses