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Performance Area => Shoes => Topic started by: adarqui on August 26, 2016, 10:43:33 am

Title: A shoe specifically for dunking
Post by: adarqui on August 26, 2016, 10:43:33 am
I wrote this on NB's facebook today.. curious if I get a response:

Quote
Andrew Darqui cool article. Hey New Balance , when are you going to make a shoe specifically for dunkers? :F The dunk community is constantly growing. We need a shoe that is somewhat like an XC flat, light (~5 oz) & bouncy - helps you spring off your toes easier, but also is a bit stronger in the sole.. maybe has a plate in it. Basketball shoes are too bulky and clunky. We don'' need all of that extra support - it just weighs us down, makes our runups slower, reduces "feel" of the ground. Dunkers need a very light, low top, springy shoe, but with a little bit stronger sole. For what it's worth, I jump/dunk in XC 900 v2's ... if they had a stronger sole, they would probably be perfect. Just a request........ There's a TON of dunk addicts out there who you could target; people literally just train to dunk now because it's so much fun & makes for great videos on youtube etc.
Title: Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
Post by: adarqui on August 26, 2016, 10:44:10 am
(http://i.imgur.com/XWOkz2X.png)
Title: Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
Post by: LBSS on August 29, 2016, 05:49:26 pm
i know i've said it before but IMHO lotto quaranta is currently the best substitute. they're 7.7 ounces -- not quite 5 but still a lot lighter than any other tennis or bball shoe i've ever seen -- have flat and wide soles and are reasonably stiff.

not saying a dunk-specific shoe wouldn't be better but quarantas aren't bad. and they're cheap, ~$40.
Title: Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
Post by: AGC on August 29, 2016, 10:21:50 pm
Bro, APL already made the perfect dunking shoe!  :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm:

(http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.a/6a00d8341c630a53ef01348851da3d970c-pi)

Ha but actually they have some pretty interesting looking shoes now:

http://www.athleticpropulsionlabs.com/mens/athletic-footwear/basketball-shoes.html (http://www.athleticpropulsionlabs.com/mens/athletic-footwear/basketball-shoes.html)

Can't believe how many lines they have though, not only bball shoes but running as well. Such a crowded space.
Title: Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
Post by: maxent on August 29, 2016, 10:36:59 pm
I'm actually pretty happy with my Kobe's they're not heavy at all and lowtop, comparable to my running shoes .. the only problem is, and this is a deal breaker ... is that they're not flexible on the top so i dont get much dorsiflexion (?). if i can find a pair of shoes that have that as well i'll be super happy for a dunking shoe (and general basketball).
Title: Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
Post by: adarqui on August 30, 2016, 09:16:23 pm
i know i've said it before but IMHO lotto quaranta is currently the best substitute. they're 7.7 ounces -- not quite 5 but still a lot lighter than any other tennis or bball shoe i've ever seen -- have flat and wide soles and are reasonably stiff.

not saying a dunk-specific shoe wouldn't be better but quarantas aren't bad. and they're cheap, ~$40.

yo! do you put insoles in them? Both of the pair I bought, the soles ripped out within a week.. and they were this weird cushion material.

I didn't like the "normal pair" too much .. but, maybe that's just because I liked the other pair I bought which was made out of that new bouncier material. I forget the name of it. I never jumped in them.. not sure if i'd enjoy SLRVJ'n in them from what I remember.. DLRVJ would have felt good I imagine.




Bro, APL already made the perfect dunking shoe!  :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm:

(http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.a/6a00d8341c630a53ef01348851da3d970c-pi)

Ha but actually they have some pretty interesting looking shoes now:

http://www.athleticpropulsionlabs.com/mens/athletic-footwear/basketball-shoes.html (http://www.athleticpropulsionlabs.com/mens/athletic-footwear/basketball-shoes.html)

Can't believe how many lines they have though, not only bball shoes but running as well. Such a crowded space.

WTF? they have so many models/designs now.. ha




I'm actually pretty happy with my Kobe's they're not heavy at all and lowtop, comparable to my running shoes .. the only problem is, and this is a deal breaker ... is that they're not flexible on the top so i dont get much dorsiflexion (?). if i can find a pair of shoes that have that as well i'll be super happy for a dunking shoe (and general basketball).

i've never had kobe's.. and i'm still tempted. I think I need to get a stronger shoe for MAX EFFORT slrvj... i can submax in my flats but, max effort, might be risking it a bit.. I just don't want to F up my heel.

pc!
Title: Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
Post by: LBSS on August 31, 2016, 08:58:45 am
haven't used inserts but the soles have been totally fine for me. dunno.
Title: Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
Post by: maxent on August 31, 2016, 10:43:58 am
I'm actually pretty happy with my Kobe's they're not heavy at all and lowtop, comparable to my running shoes .. the only problem is, and this is a deal breaker ... is that they're not flexible on the top so i dont get much dorsiflexion (?). if i can find a pair of shoes that have that as well i'll be super happy for a dunking shoe (and general basketball).

i've never had kobe's.. and i'm still tempted. I think I need to get a stronger shoe for MAX EFFORT slrvj... i can submax in my flats but, max effort, might be risking it a bit.. I just don't want to F up my heel.

pc!

Neither, it's my first pair and i normally wudnt get a name shoe, just dont care about that stuff. KDs stuff looked good to me but i cant be bothered paying the premium for a name. Anyway about the Kobes, i didn't get the highend pair Kobe 12 or whatever they're up to now. But i do wanna know if theyre better in the regard of flexibility up top. Lemme know if you find a good pair - i think Kobe's are close if only for the inflexibilty up top.
Title: Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
Post by: T0ddday on August 31, 2016, 01:47:56 pm
I'm actually pretty happy with my Kobe's they're not heavy at all and lowtop, comparable to my running shoes .. the only problem is, and this is a deal breaker ... is that they're not flexible on the top so i dont get much dorsiflexion (?). if i can find a pair of shoes that have that as well i'll be super happy for a dunking shoe (and general basketball).

i've never had kobe's.. and i'm still tempted. I think I need to get a stronger shoe for MAX EFFORT slrvj... i can submax in my flats but, max effort, might be risking it a bit.. I just don't want to F up my heel.

pc!

Neither, it's my first pair and i normally wudnt get a name shoe, just dont care about that stuff. KDs stuff looked good to me but i cant be bothered paying the premium for a name. Anyway about the Kobes, i didn't get the highend pair Kobe 12 or whatever they're up to now. But i do wanna know if theyre better in the regard of flexibility up top. Lemme know if you find a good pair - i think Kobe's are close if only for the inflexibilty up top.

I jump in Puma biowebs.  I had a deal with them where I got them for nothing and I have 30 pairs.  They are in all my dunk videos.  Highly recommended.
Title: Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
Post by: seifullaah73 on August 31, 2016, 02:14:31 pm
I'm actually pretty happy with my Kobe's they're not heavy at all and lowtop, comparable to my running shoes .. the only problem is, and this is a deal breaker ... is that they're not flexible on the top so i dont get much dorsiflexion (?). if i can find a pair of shoes that have that as well i'll be super happy for a dunking shoe (and general basketball).

i've never had kobe's.. and i'm still tempted. I think I need to get a stronger shoe for MAX EFFORT slrvj... i can submax in my flats but, max effort, might be risking it a bit.. I just don't want to F up my heel.

pc!

Neither, it's my first pair and i normally wudnt get a name shoe, just dont care about that stuff. KDs stuff looked good to me but i cant be bothered paying the premium for a name. Anyway about the Kobes, i didn't get the highend pair Kobe 12 or whatever they're up to now. But i do wanna know if theyre better in the regard of flexibility up top. Lemme know if you find a good pair - i think Kobe's are close if only for the inflexibilty up top.

I jump in Puma biowebs.  I had a deal with them where I got them for nothing and I have 30 pairs.  They are in all my dunk videos.  Highly recommended.

30 pairs!?  :o
Wow it must have been some deal.
Title: Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
Post by: jumperer on September 03, 2016, 04:10:47 am
I'm actually pretty happy with my Kobe's they're not heavy at all and lowtop, comparable to my running shoes .. the only problem is, and this is a deal breaker ... is that they're not flexible on the top so i dont get much dorsiflexion (?). if i can find a pair of shoes that have that as well i'll be super happy for a dunking shoe (and general basketball).

i have the kobe 9's and i don't think i can find a better shoe for dunking indoors than them. they're low to the ground and flat, so they're not like typical basketball shoes where theres too much cushion and it becomes cumbersome for jumping. also the traction on them is literally GOAT lol. i also had the nike zoom streak lt 2's which have really thin cushion. on court theres barely anything separating you from the ground. the traction on them inside wasn't too good though, but if they did have good traction i would've ordered more pairs. i used them outdoors instead and the traction is completely worn out now.

i really like shoes with thin cushion though. might be a placebo, but i feel like i jump higher in them. you really get to transfer that energy straight into the ground instead of having soft cushioning absorb it. also cool how you can pass for a shorter height without wearing shoes with really thick cushion. my height without shoes is in between 5'11 and 6 ft, so i can pass for 5'11 in my zoom streak lt's and be a sub 6 ft dunker lol. i'm like 6/6'1 in my kobe's though, and 6'2 in my kd 7's.
Title: Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
Post by: adarqui on September 03, 2016, 11:19:18 am
great feedback from every1!

i really need to find a place locally that has some kobe's to try on.. i've stopped by some stores occasionally to see if they had them, and they never had any in stock.
Title: Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
Post by: jumperer on September 04, 2016, 06:17:51 am
great feedback from every1!

i really need to find a place locally that has some kobe's to try on.. i've stopped by some stores occasionally to see if they had them, and they never had any in stock.

you'll probably only find kobe 11's at stores now. there's 2 versions, the elite and the EM. i read a lot of reviews, and apparently the elite's traction is trash, while the EM's traction is better, but still not close to kobe 9 level.

think i'm gonna get the nike zoom streak lt 3's next. hope the cushion is as thin as the 2's so i can pass as 5'11 again lol.
Title: Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
Post by: maxent on September 04, 2016, 10:06:39 am
Damn andrew you got me looking for the perfect shoe too. haha. My cursory research suggests that the higher end Kobe shoes possibly weigh more than the budget ones (eg kobe mentality 2). So now im thinking why would i pay more for a heavier shoe? But the problem is there is no standardized way of checking weights .. and all im going by is reviews which means it's subject to error in measurement and also depending on the size of the pair the reviewer used. So it's almost useless. I hate that shoe reviewers are universally retarded and get caught up in the jargon so much so that they forget to actually say something objectively true about the shoe lol.

so it would be cool to have a website that catalogues basketball shoes by weight ... maybe pick a given size (10 or something) and that way you have a useful metric to go by. I hate hate shoe heads for being so useless that they havent even got this basic down. /rant over
Title: Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
Post by: jumperer on September 04, 2016, 10:35:36 am
in my exp. the shoe weight makes no difference lol. unless you were wearing something as heavy as hiking boots thats when it counts, but all ball shoes weigh about the same, i guess the only difference is the placebo a light shoe would give you lol.
Title: Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
Post by: maxent on September 04, 2016, 11:20:13 am
Prob important when you're at the cusp of breaking into new territory. Maybe landing your first dunk or windmill or whtaever. But in my experience, there is a difference in where the weight is. Ive done weighted dunks at ~220lb while weighing ~165lb. But if i put on some ankle weights (around 3kg i think), it changes things a lot more than the weight vest did. It's hard to explain though unless you try it out. I think you do want your feet to be as light as possible.
Title: Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
Post by: maxent on September 04, 2016, 11:22:36 am
Hey i remember reading someone leaving the top holes for shoelaces empty to get mroe dorsifllexion. Has anyone explore that with basketball shoes, more specifically lowtops that are otherwise perfect? I haven't tried it myself, just curious. Having said that, i haven't really analysed my dunking technique to see if it could benefit from more knee bend. maybe.. will look into itt
Title: Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
Post by: adarqui on September 04, 2016, 11:35:21 am
in my exp. the shoe weight makes no difference lol. unless you were wearing something as heavy as hiking boots thats when it counts, but all ball shoes weigh about the same, i guess the only difference is the placebo a light shoe would give you lol.

i'm weak af. when i put on my hyperdunks, i walk around for like 2 seconds, then i take them off. they feel horrible.

shoe weight definitely makes a difference for me.. it could all be mental, but that's still significant. All I know is I wouldn't want to run/sprint/"do plyometrics" in basketball shoes.. i'd rather do that in XC flats.. so if i'd rather "fly" in XC flats, why would I ever want to wear basketball shoes? ... especially since I don't actually play basketball anymore.

so that's why I have this problem with basketball shoes.. they have all of this extra support/protection/weight for playing basketball, which I don't play. If someone made a ~4-5 oz XC flat style shoe but, with a stronger sole for jumping, I think i'd be in heaven.

the lightest shoes I have right now are my NB 5000 v2 running shoes .. which I enjoyed jumping in until I hurt my heel. I kind of think jumping in those shoes was more risky than my XC flats because even thoug they have more heel protection (for running), it's this hard foam-like substance that I think shifted when I planted in my SLRVJ.. which caused some kind of damage to my "heel area'. Now it flares up slightly on occasion when jumping in my XC flats - but never to the initial extent when I injured it in my NB 5000 v2's. My XC flats are more like ~5 oz and have a strong rubber on the bottom, instead of that weird space-age foam material. I think it offers more protection.

I should have designed myself a damn shoe .. i'll do that in the future.  :headbang: :ibrunning: :ibjumping:

I want one shoe I can run, sprint, jump, and dunk in.. :D
Title: Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
Post by: adarqui on September 04, 2016, 11:37:55 am
Prob important when you're at the cusp of breaking into new territory. Maybe landing your first dunk or windmill or whtaever. But in my experience, there is a difference in where the weight is. Ive done weighted dunks at ~220lb while weighing ~165lb. But if i put on some ankle weights (around 3kg i think), it changes things a lot more than the weight vest did. It's hard to explain though unless you try it out. I think you do want your feet to be as light as possible.

lmao.. 10 lb ankle weights on each ankle vs 20 lb. weight vest, wrecked. ;f

ya I think ankle weights shut down the thigh muscles more (because of the extra torque it puts on the knee), during a runup for example. So you get less speed/power/aggressiveness in your approach and THEN you still have more weight on you..
Title: Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
Post by: adarqui on September 04, 2016, 11:41:24 am
Hey i remember reading someone leaving the top holes for shoelaces empty to get mroe dorsifllexion. Has anyone explore that with basketball shoes, more specifically lowtops that are otherwise perfect? I haven't tried it myself, just curious. Having said that, i haven't really analysed my dunking technique to see if it could benefit from more knee bend. maybe.. will look into itt

i did that naturally alot when i played basketball, just hated the laces dig into my ankles.

not sure though.. kind of interesting.

One thing I loved about the way I jumped/dunked 5 years ago was, I never worried about technique at all.. I simply focused on building more horse power, getting lighter, learning how to "stim" myself through MSEM & caffeine & concentrated blocks + deloading etc.. So it's kind of funny how with running and SLRVJ, i've gone on these tangents of analyzing my form etc. I think I had it right the first time........ Though, I am glad i'm changing up my running/SLRVJ form because:

1. my midfoot running form changes will only allow me to go much faster in the future
2. my recent "less heel contact" for my SLRVJ will probably protect my feet/heel more when planting in SLRVJ

so perhaps two good things to come from some overanalysis.. dno yet.

pc!
Title: Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
Post by: ADot on September 04, 2016, 11:47:49 am
I'm going to get a second pair shoes for dunking,basketball,training. My current basketball shoes are good for basketball. But pretty bad for jumping and training.
Title: Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
Post by: ADot on September 04, 2016, 12:04:39 pm
Footlocker here I come.
Title: Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
Post by: adarqui on September 04, 2016, 12:20:02 pm
I'm going to get a second pair shoes for dunking,basketball,training. My current basketball shoes are good for basketball. But pretty bad for jumping and training.

Footlocker here I come.

nice!

i've been meaning to order some new Saucony Shay XC 4's .. I think I will do that today actually. I have a worn out pair & a somewhat fresh pair. These shoes feel so incredibly bouncy when they are brand new. They hold up so well with all of the different stuff I do in them. These are my goto shoes right now because I literally do everything in them: run, sprint, jump, dunk, lift. They are very minimal though so, most people wouldn't feel comfortable jumping/dunking in them. They are also the most narrow shoes I have ... which I think is something I love about them. Feel like a glove on my feet.

http://www.adarq.org/shoes/saucony-shay-xc4-flat
Title: Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
Post by: T0ddday on September 04, 2016, 03:14:44 pm
Prob important when you're at the cusp of breaking into new territory. Maybe landing your first dunk or windmill or whtaever. But in my experience, there is a difference in where the weight is. Ive done weighted dunks at ~220lb while weighing ~165lb. But if i put on some ankle weights (around 3kg i think), it changes things a lot more than the weight vest did. It's hard to explain though unless you try it out. I think you do want your feet to be as light as possible.

First of all...

That's impressive as fuck. 

Doing 220lb dunks at 160 is ridiculous.  I don't know how many inches a dunk is for you but if I assume you need a 30 inch jump to dunk... Then taking off the weight should give you a 41 inch jump... How far is this from truth?

As far as where the weight is... Your totally right, I don't like ankle weights for this reason.  However any added weight should give a minimum boost of weight_vest/bw * weighted jump.  That's where I get the 41 inch jump from.  This is the least you should gain though... Weight hurts in different places besides this.  If your not getting this gain when you take the weight off you need to do "over speed" work.  Basically what sprinters do when we tow them.  Harder to set up for a jump but possible w bands.  Basically you need to work on producing them same force for a "lighter" (accelerating body).

IMO the most challenging weights are thigh weights.  Weight there just kills the jump. 
Title: Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
Post by: T0ddday on September 04, 2016, 03:17:41 pm
in my exp. the shoe weight makes no difference lol. unless you were wearing something as heavy as hiking boots thats when it counts, but all ball shoes weigh about the same, i guess the only difference is the placebo a light shoe would give you lol.

i'm weak af. when i put on my hyperdunks, i walk around for like 2 seconds, then i take them off. they feel horrible.

shoe weight definitely makes a difference for me.. it could all be mental, but that's still significant. All I know is I wouldn't want to run/sprint/"do plyometrics" in basketball shoes.. i'd rather do that in XC flats.. so if i'd rather "fly" in XC flats, why would I ever want to wear basketball shoes? ... especially since I don't actually play basketball anymore.

so that's why I have this problem with basketball shoes.. they have all of this extra support/protection/weight for playing basketball, which I don't play. If someone made a ~4-5 oz XC flat style shoe but, with a stronger sole for jumping, I think i'd be in heaven.

the lightest shoes I have right now are my NB 5000 v2 running shoes .. which I enjoyed jumping in until I hurt my heel. I kind of think jumping in those shoes was more risky than my XC flats because even thoug they have more heel protection (for running), it's this hard foam-like substance that I think shifted when I planted in my SLRVJ.. which caused some kind of damage to my "heel area'. Now it flares up slightly on occasion when jumping in my XC flats - but never to the initial extent when I injured it in my NB 5000 v2's. My XC flats are more like ~5 oz and have a strong rubber on the bottom, instead of that weird space-age foam material. I think it offers more protection.

I should have designed myself a damn shoe .. i'll do that in the future.  :headbang: :ibrunning: :ibjumping:

I want one shoe I can run, sprint, jump, and dunk in.. :D

Get puma biowebs.

My problem w true flats is that while I jump higher... I'm also shorter.  I'm 5'11 in flats and 6'1 in bball shoes... I jump moderately higher in flats (especially single leg and running jumps) but for drop step dunks I think it's kinda a stalemate... Jump an inch higher or be an inch taller?  What's best?

The ultimate shoe for jumping is a negative heel shoe.  Studies show this is by far the best thing.  Hard to find.  You can however make your own inserts w duct tape and insoles and it can be dramatic.  About half an inch higher at the toe that the heel and you will fly. 
Title: Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
Post by: adarqui on September 04, 2016, 04:07:26 pm
in my exp. the shoe weight makes no difference lol. unless you were wearing something as heavy as hiking boots thats when it counts, but all ball shoes weigh about the same, i guess the only difference is the placebo a light shoe would give you lol.

i'm weak af. when i put on my hyperdunks, i walk around for like 2 seconds, then i take them off. they feel horrible.

shoe weight definitely makes a difference for me.. it could all be mental, but that's still significant. All I know is I wouldn't want to run/sprint/"do plyometrics" in basketball shoes.. i'd rather do that in XC flats.. so if i'd rather "fly" in XC flats, why would I ever want to wear basketball shoes? ... especially since I don't actually play basketball anymore.

so that's why I have this problem with basketball shoes.. they have all of this extra support/protection/weight for playing basketball, which I don't play. If someone made a ~4-5 oz XC flat style shoe but, with a stronger sole for jumping, I think i'd be in heaven.

the lightest shoes I have right now are my NB 5000 v2 running shoes .. which I enjoyed jumping in until I hurt my heel. I kind of think jumping in those shoes was more risky than my XC flats because even thoug they have more heel protection (for running), it's this hard foam-like substance that I think shifted when I planted in my SLRVJ.. which caused some kind of damage to my "heel area'. Now it flares up slightly on occasion when jumping in my XC flats - but never to the initial extent when I injured it in my NB 5000 v2's. My XC flats are more like ~5 oz and have a strong rubber on the bottom, instead of that weird space-age foam material. I think it offers more protection.

I should have designed myself a damn shoe .. i'll do that in the future.  :headbang: :ibrunning: :ibjumping:

I want one shoe I can run, sprint, jump, and dunk in.. :D

Get puma biowebs.

My problem w true flats is that while I jump higher... I'm also shorter.  I'm 5'11 in flats and 6'1 in bball shoes... I jump moderately higher in flats (especially single leg and running jumps) but for drop step dunks I think it's kinda a stalemate... Jump an inch higher or be an inch taller?  What's best?

tbh ... i'll take an inch more vert - i think.. HAH

on that note.. I should start stretching my lats more to give me an extra inch of reach or something.. it can potentially help.



Quote
The ultimate shoe for jumping is a negative heel shoe.  Studies show this is by far the best thing.  Hard to find.  You can however make your own inserts w duct tape and insoles and it can be dramatic.  About half an inch higher at the toe that the heel and you will fly.

are these "negative heel"? I mean, I always feel like im sinking slightly into my heel with them.. you feel it especially when squatting.

i always considered these 0.. but, you can see they have a prominent forefoot architecture to them.

(http://i.imgur.com/DLzDCOR.png)
Title: Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
Post by: LBSS on September 04, 2016, 06:39:33 pm
in my exp. the shoe weight makes no difference lol. unless you were wearing something as heavy as hiking boots thats when it counts, but all ball shoes weigh about the same, i guess the only difference is the placebo a light shoe would give you lol.

don't underestimate placebo.
Title: Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
Post by: maxent on September 04, 2016, 09:27:24 pm
Prob important when you're at the cusp of breaking into new territory. Maybe landing your first dunk or windmill or whtaever. But in my experience, there is a difference in where the weight is. Ive done weighted dunks at ~220lb while weighing ~165lb. But if i put on some ankle weights (around 3kg i think), it changes things a lot more than the weight vest did. It's hard to explain though unless you try it out. I think you do want your feet to be as light as possible.

First of all...

That's impressive as fuck. 

Doing 220lb dunks at 160 is ridiculous.  I don't know how many inches a dunk is for you but if I assume you need a 30 inch jump to dunk... Then taking off the weight should give you a 41 inch jump... How far is this from truth?

As far as where the weight is... Your totally right, I don't like ankle weights for this reason.  However any added weight should give a minimum boost of weight_vest/bw * weighted jump.  That's where I get the 41 inch jump from.  This is the least you should gain though... Weight hurts in different places besides this.  If your not getting this gain when you take the weight off you need to do "over speed" work.  Basically what sprinters do when we tow them.  Harder to set up for a jump but possible w bands.  Basically you need to work on producing them same force for a "lighter" (accelerating body).

IMO the most challenging weights are thigh weights.  Weight there just kills the jump.

Damn, didnt you see the vid? pretty sure i put it up haha. I will put it up on my insta @maxentr0py .. check it out later today. It wasn't that special tbh cos form to get a +25kg dunk is like the form when you are straining to get that first tip dunk .. but with me when i get it i was hitting the rim so hard it went thru super hard. take the vest off and dunks become submaxier but so what, not like im getting my head at the rim.. i dont know, i dont think there is much benefit to training at those extremes. i think the best weighted dunks were the ones i got around +5-7kg where i was getting a good workout without changing form too drastically.
Title: Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
Post by: T0ddday on September 05, 2016, 05:00:17 am
Prob important when you're at the cusp of breaking into new territory. Maybe landing your first dunk or windmill or whtaever. But in my experience, there is a difference in where the weight is. Ive done weighted dunks at ~220lb while weighing ~165lb. But if i put on some ankle weights (around 3kg i think), it changes things a lot more than the weight vest did. It's hard to explain though unless you try it out. I think you do want your feet to be as light as possible.

First of all...

That's impressive as fuck. 

Doing 220lb dunks at 160 is ridiculous.  I don't know how many inches a dunk is for you but if I assume you need a 30 inch jump to dunk... Then taking off the weight should give you a 41 inch jump... How far is this from truth?

As far as where the weight is... Your totally right, I don't like ankle weights for this reason.  However any added weight should give a minimum boost of weight_vest/bw * weighted jump.  That's where I get the 41 inch jump from.  This is the least you should gain though... Weight hurts in different places besides this.  If your not getting this gain when you take the weight off you need to do "over speed" work.  Basically what sprinters do when we tow them.  Harder to set up for a jump but possible w bands.  Basically you need to work on producing them same force for a "lighter" (accelerating body).

IMO the most challenging weights are thigh weights.  Weight there just kills the jump.

Damn, didnt you see the vid? pretty sure i put it up haha. I will put it up on my insta @maxentr0py .. check it out later today. It wasn't that special tbh cos form to get a +25kg dunk is like the form when you are straining to get that first tip dunk .. but with me when i get it i was hitting the rim so hard it went thru super hard. take the vest off and dunks become submaxier but so what, not like im getting my head at the rim.. i dont know, i dont think there is much benefit to training at those extremes. i think the best weighted dunks were the ones i got around +5-7kg where i was getting a good workout without changing form too drastically.

I can't tell which are you videos are weighted on ig.  They all look unweighted. 

As far as the optimal weight to use, it's not really an amount in weight.  The optimal amount of weight to use is as much as possible where you can still jump high.  You basically just figure out where you are in carryover to maximize gains.  So, if I load up with 220 lbs of weight I might jump 10 inches.  Then if I take the vest off and create the same power..... I'll just 20 inches.... I can already jump higher than 20 inches.  So, that means just having that much weight inhibits my ability to make power - not worth it. 

However your talking about dunking with 60 lbs of weight on... It's hard to tell how high you get up on your dunks so it would be better if you knew how high you were actually jumping.  What's your actual max jump?  For me I use an absolute maximum of 20lbs reisistance because anything less and I can't jump high enough to dunk, w 20lbs on a I can get 36" on a good day and I can count on that boost to get my 20% more without vest...

Even if your a couple inches taller and your jumping only 34" to dunk... If your 220 w resistance and 160 without... There really is no way you can't hit 40".  I just don't get it.  60 lbs additional to a 160 dude and he still jumps 34??? That guy jumps 40!
Title: Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
Post by: maxent on September 05, 2016, 05:35:30 am
sorry, insta is annoying, i cant upload directly from pc,cant be bothered with all of that, will just use youtube..

edit, so this is what i put up in my log
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4WgRtg0veg

and this one was done a week later
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnrfyIKbyAU
also have the unweighted dunks after that;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0HDbet8omU

i did heavier than that the following weeks but i dont have that on tape. a nd the last set of weighted dunks i have on tape (days before the comp) but it's full HD and the vid is like 1-4gb .. will take too long to upload unless i edit but i dont have any decent editor available (linux is a ghetto).
Title: Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
Post by: seifullaah73 on September 05, 2016, 10:53:40 am
Wow, those dunks just look too easy for you, love the tomahawk dunk, without the weighted vest on first link.
 :ibjumping:
Title: Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
Post by: T0ddday on September 05, 2016, 11:10:49 am
sorry, insta is annoying, i cant upload directly from pc,cant be bothered with all of that, will just use youtube..

edit, so this is what i put up in my log
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4WgRtg0veg

and this one was done a week later
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnrfyIKbyAU
also have the unweighted dunks after that;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0HDbet8omU

i did heavier than that the following weeks but i dont have that on tape. a nd the last set of weighted dunks i have on tape (days before the comp) but it's full HD and the vid is like 1-4gb .. will take too long to upload unless i edit but i dont have any decent editor available (linux is a ghetto).

Hmm... Well I guess dunks are sort of a hard measure to use.  You seem to be pretty proficient at it.  The most important question is... How high are you jumping? 

What it looks like is with 95kg your hardly getting up.  To my eye it looks like about 24 inches off the ground.  Going back to your natural weight of 75kg you would expect a 1.25 boost or a 32 inch jump - maybe you jumping more like 33 in the dunks...

That's what it looks like... What's the actual height?  I mean if I recall you only like 6'2 but honestly the air space in the videos looks off... I mean I don't know guys in that height range that can dunk like you, like the stretch style.   I guess it just requires you to measure arm length and actual vertical...
Title: Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
Post by: maxent on September 05, 2016, 11:23:59 am
Wow, those dunks just look too easy for you, love the tomahawk dunk, without the weighted vest on first link.
 :ibjumping:

thanks. i got lighter and leaner and stronger over the following coupla weeks ... pity i didn't peak my vertical :( was too busy making up for a lack of fitness by tryna do last minute conditioning lol. i did weighted sprint intervals and loads of treadmill running etc. was not good for athleticism. plus in this shoe thread, in that vid im wearing my oversized heavy shoes (for training effect). they fell apart from the weighted dunking tho .. so i cant use that strategy anymore. just as well, i dont think it was worthwhile..
Title: Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
Post by: maxent on September 05, 2016, 11:27:01 am
sorry, insta is annoying, i cant upload directly from pc,cant be bothered with all of that, will just use youtube..

edit, so this is what i put up in my log
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4WgRtg0veg

and this one was done a week later
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnrfyIKbyAU
also have the unweighted dunks after that;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0HDbet8omU

i did heavier than that the following weeks but i dont have that on tape. a nd the last set of weighted dunks i have on tape (days before the comp) but it's full HD and the vid is like 1-4gb .. will take too long to upload unless i edit but i dont have any decent editor available (linux is a ghetto).

Hmm... Well I guess dunks are sort of a hard measure to use.  You seem to be pretty proficient at it.  The most important question is... How high are you jumping? 

What it looks like is with 95kg your hardly getting up.  To my eye it looks like about 24 inches off the ground.  Going back to your natural weight of 75kg you would expect a 1.25 boost or a 32 inch jump - maybe you jumping more like 33 in the dunks...

That's what it looks like... What's the actual height?  I mean if I recall you only like 6'2 but honestly the air space in the videos looks off... I mean I don't know guys in that height range that can dunk like you, like the stretch style.   I guess it just requires you to measure arm length and actual vertical...

yep by comp time i was really profficient. i cud literally jump out of bed cold and do a submax dunk without even trying. i have long thought my dunking is overspecialised, i cud prob benefit from trying different things to mix things up like approaching from the other side of the rim, changing plant, doing SL dunks etc. Just to improve my athleticism. My reach is 98" barefoot. it goes up a little with shoes. but ya im not jumping high on weighted dunks above 85kg. around 95-100kg im llucky to land one, most are misses. but. i think i get more air and more normal form when using about +10kg than i do with more than that. my new weight vest (i left the old one in brisbane after the comp) only goes up to 10kg so that shud keep my addiction to adidng weight in check
Title: Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
Post by: maxent on September 05, 2016, 11:49:02 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8CnejSEQDw

interesting .. this is from 2015, cliffs:

10. Nike Lebron 13
9. Nike Kobe 10
8. Nike Kyrie 1
7. Nike Hyperrev 2015
6. Nike Hyperdunk 2015
5. Nike Kd 8
4. Nike Zoom Lebron Soldier 9
3. Nike KD Trey 5 iii
2. Nike KB Mentality
1. Nike Hyperquickness 2015

mine are 2, kb mentality. and yea i agree they're pretty light but i want lighter lol. and i think (not confirmed) the kb mentality 2 are lighter. may get a pair of those or the kb 11s, not sure which, hmmmm.
Title: Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
Post by: adarqui on September 05, 2016, 01:06:23 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8CnejSEQDw

interesting .. this is from 2015, cliffs:

10. Nike Lebron 13
9. Nike Kobe 10
8. Nike Kyrie 1
7. Nike Hyperrev 2015
6. Nike Hyperdunk 2015
5. Nike Kd 8
4. Nike Zoom Lebron Soldier 9
3. Nike KD Trey 5 iii
2. Nike KB Mentality
1. Nike Hyperquickness 2015

mine are 2, kb mentality. and yea i agree they're pretty light but i want lighter lol. and i think (not confirmed) the kb mentality 2 are lighter. may get a pair of those or the kb 11s, not sure which, hmmmm.

starting at 19oz and ending at 12oz..  :uhhhfacepalm:

crazy. but ya those are bball shoes. The shoes LBSS talks about are ~7-8 oz:

Lotto Men's Quaranta VIP Tennis Shoe

http://www.tennisexpress.com/LOTTO-Mens-Quaranta-VIP-Shoes-Cement-and-Silver-Metal-50035?gclid=Cj0KEQjwr7S-BRD96_uw9JK8uNABEiQAujbffBJyu8D9C1TZbGTh7-9rrxqJVvEltMeQhNiBqPs97CgaAjb78P8HAQ

(https://www.tennisexpress.com/prodimages/59846-DEFAULT-L.jpg)

those VIP's feel pretty good but I never jumped in them.. mostly because I had to put insoles in mine because the "cushion insole" ripped out.
Title: Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
Post by: T0ddday on September 05, 2016, 01:54:29 pm
sorry, insta is annoying, i cant upload directly from pc,cant be bothered with all of that, will just use youtube..

edit, so this is what i put up in my log
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4WgRtg0veg

and this one was done a week later
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnrfyIKbyAU
also have the unweighted dunks after that;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0HDbet8omU

i did heavier than that the following weeks but i dont have that on tape. a nd the last set of weighted dunks i have on tape (days before the comp) but it's full HD and the vid is like 1-4gb .. will take too long to upload unless i edit but i dont have any decent editor available (linux is a ghetto).

Hmm... Well I guess dunks are sort of a hard measure to use.  You seem to be pretty proficient at it.  The most important question is... How high are you jumping? 

What it looks like is with 95kg your hardly getting up.  To my eye it looks like about 24 inches off the ground.  Going back to your natural weight of 75kg you would expect a 1.25 boost or a 32 inch jump - maybe you jumping more like 33 in the dunks...

That's what it looks like... What's the actual height?  I mean if I recall you only like 6'2 but honestly the air space in the videos looks off... I mean I don't know guys in that height range that can dunk like you, like the stretch style.   I guess it just requires you to measure arm length and actual vertical...

yep by comp time i was really profficient. i cud literally jump out of bed cold and do a submax dunk without even trying. i have long thought my dunking is overspecialised, i cud prob benefit from trying different things to mix things up like approaching from the other side of the rim, changing plant, doing SL dunks etc. Just to improve my athleticism. My reach is 98" barefoot. it goes up a little with shoes. but ya im not jumping high on weighted dunks above 85kg. around 95-100kg im llucky to land one, most are misses. but. i think i get more air and more normal form when using about +10kg than i do with more than that. my new weight vest (i left the old one in brisbane after the comp) only goes up to 10kg so that shud keep my addiction to adidng weight in check

Ah ok.  That makes more sense.  Your reach in shoes has you only about 20" away from the rim.  And with your palming ability your really able to dunk without getting up...  I agree that your probably right that being 100kg is far too heavy for you but I wouldn't be surprised if 10kg is overkill as well...  Remember the similarity between running and sprinting that separates elite from the rest - accelerating a light body...  Best results are around 10% of bw for most people and you are lighter than 100kg.

At your level I would just use the formula I mentioned.  Vbw/bw * vested_jump = predicted-jump.  Use the most weight you can until the drop off in predicted jump falls.  Like if your max jump is 35" and your predicted jump w 5kg,6kg,7kg,8kg is 32,33,33,31... You would want 7kg and train to push this up past 35". 

If you are already at the point where a heavy vested jump puts your predicted jump far past your actual jump.... the DO NOT use the weight vest!  Your are so far to the right on the strength curve that you are wasting your time with vested jumps.  This is where I assumed you were but there's a good chance I'm wrong in light of your reach being as high as it is... But if you are here you really don't need to build this motor - making it more powerful when you already don't know how use it will set you back in the long term...  I had a good discussion about this with one of the elite coaches and he talked about how rare this is (most sprinters and jumpers are weak and extremely efficient) but how if you find someone here you need to get them to harness their power asap.
Title: Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
Post by: maxent on September 05, 2016, 09:49:08 pm
Hmm i thought the KB Mentality was around 9 ounces? Which is light for a basketball shoe but it hits the usual areas we need to play with as well as jump. But i do agree 7 sounds a lot better! Hope eventually the technology goes the right way, it's ridiculous how bakwards basketball shoes are. Urgh. Im going to check out some today irl and if i like them will put in an ebay order.
Title: Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
Post by: maxent on September 05, 2016, 09:52:40 pm
sorry, insta is annoying, i cant upload directly from pc,cant be bothered with all of that, will just use youtube..

edit, so this is what i put up in my log
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4WgRtg0veg

and this one was done a week later
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnrfyIKbyAU
also have the unweighted dunks after that;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0HDbet8omU

i did heavier than that the following weeks but i dont have that on tape. a nd the last set of weighted dunks i have on tape (days before the comp) but it's full HD and the vid is like 1-4gb .. will take too long to upload unless i edit but i dont have any decent editor available (linux is a ghetto).

Hmm... Well I guess dunks are sort of a hard measure to use.  You seem to be pretty proficient at it.  The most important question is... How high are you jumping? 

What it looks like is with 95kg your hardly getting up.  To my eye it looks like about 24 inches off the ground.  Going back to your natural weight of 75kg you would expect a 1.25 boost or a 32 inch jump - maybe you jumping more like 33 in the dunks...

That's what it looks like... What's the actual height?  I mean if I recall you only like 6'2 but honestly the air space in the videos looks off... I mean I don't know guys in that height range that can dunk like you, like the stretch style.   I guess it just requires you to measure arm length and actual vertical...

yep by comp time i was really profficient. i cud literally jump out of bed cold and do a submax dunk without even trying. i have long thought my dunking is overspecialised, i cud prob benefit from trying different things to mix things up like approaching from the other side of the rim, changing plant, doing SL dunks etc. Just to improve my athleticism. My reach is 98" barefoot. it goes up a little with shoes. but ya im not jumping high on weighted dunks above 85kg. around 95-100kg im llucky to land one, most are misses. but. i think i get more air and more normal form when using about +10kg than i do with more than that. my new weight vest (i left the old one in brisbane after the comp) only goes up to 10kg so that shud keep my addiction to adidng weight in check

Ah ok.  That makes more sense.  Your reach in shoes has you only about 20" away from the rim.  And with your palming ability your really able to dunk without getting up...  I agree that your probably right that being 100kg is far too heavy for you but I wouldn't be surprised if 10kg is overkill as well...  Remember the similarity between running and sprinting that separates elite from the rest - accelerating a light body...  Best results are around 10% of bw for most people and you are lighter than 100kg.

At your level I would just use the formula I mentioned.  Vbw/bw * vested_jump = predicted-jump.  Use the most weight you can until the drop off in predicted jump falls.  Like if your max jump is 35" and your predicted jump w 5kg,6kg,7kg,8kg is 32,33,33,31... You would want 7kg and train to push this up past 35". 

If you are already at the point where a heavy vested jump puts your predicted jump far past your actual jump.... the DO NOT use the weight vest!  Your are so far to the right on the strength curve that you are wasting your time with vested jumps.  This is where I assumed you were but there's a good chance I'm wrong in light of your reach being as high as it is... But if you are here you really don't need to build this motor - making it more powerful when you already don't know how use it will set you back in the long term...  I had a good discussion about this with one of the elite coaches and he talked about how rare this is (most sprinters and jumpers are weak and extremely efficient) but how if you find someone here you need to get them to harness their power asap.

It explains why i struggle to get eg a windmill, cos my airtime is low i don thave enough time to go thru the motions. That was my working theory anyway! Even on loewr rims i cant land a windmill :(
Title: Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
Post by: T0ddday on September 06, 2016, 01:53:18 am
sorry, insta is annoying, i cant upload directly from pc,cant be bothered with all of that, will just use youtube..

edit, so this is what i put up in my log
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4WgRtg0veg

and this one was done a week later
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnrfyIKbyAU
also have the unweighted dunks after that;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0HDbet8omU

i did heavier than that the following weeks but i dont have that on tape. a nd the last set of weighted dunks i have on tape (days before the comp) but it's full HD and the vid is like 1-4gb .. will take too long to upload unless i edit but i dont have any decent editor available (linux is a ghetto).

Hmm... Well I guess dunks are sort of a hard measure to use.  You seem to be pretty proficient at it.  The most important question is... How high are you jumping? 

What it looks like is with 95kg your hardly getting up.  To my eye it looks like about 24 inches off the ground.  Going back to your natural weight of 75kg you would expect a 1.25 boost or a 32 inch jump - maybe you jumping more like 33 in the dunks...

That's what it looks like... What's the actual height?  I mean if I recall you only like 6'2 but honestly the air space in the videos looks off... I mean I don't know guys in that height range that can dunk like you, like the stretch style.   I guess it just requires you to measure arm length and actual vertical...

yep by comp time i was really profficient. i cud literally jump out of bed cold and do a submax dunk without even trying. i have long thought my dunking is overspecialised, i cud prob benefit from trying different things to mix things up like approaching from the other side of the rim, changing plant, doing SL dunks etc. Just to improve my athleticism. My reach is 98" barefoot. it goes up a little with shoes. but ya im not jumping high on weighted dunks above 85kg. around 95-100kg im llucky to land one, most are misses. but. i think i get more air and more normal form when using about +10kg than i do with more than that. my new weight vest (i left the old one in brisbane after the comp) only goes up to 10kg so that shud keep my addiction to adidng weight in check

Ah ok.  That makes more sense.  Your reach in shoes has you only about 20" away from the rim.  And with your palming ability your really able to dunk without getting up...  I agree that your probably right that being 100kg is far too heavy for you but I wouldn't be surprised if 10kg is overkill as well...  Remember the similarity between running and sprinting that separates elite from the rest - accelerating a light body...  Best results are around 10% of bw for most people and you are lighter than 100kg.

At your level I would just use the formula I mentioned.  Vbw/bw * vested_jump = predicted-jump.  Use the most weight you can until the drop off in predicted jump falls.  Like if your max jump is 35" and your predicted jump w 5kg,6kg,7kg,8kg is 32,33,33,31... You would want 7kg and train to push this up past 35". 

If you are already at the point where a heavy vested jump puts your predicted jump far past your actual jump.... the DO NOT use the weight vest!  Your are so far to the right on the strength curve that you are wasting your time with vested jumps.  This is where I assumed you were but there's a good chance I'm wrong in light of your reach being as high as it is... But if you are here you really don't need to build this motor - making it more powerful when you already don't know how use it will set you back in the long term...  I had a good discussion about this with one of the elite coaches and he talked about how rare this is (most sprinters and jumpers are weak and extremely efficient) but how if you find someone here you need to get them to harness their power asap.

It explains why i struggle to get eg a windmill, cos my airtime is low i don thave enough time to go thru the motions. That was my working theory anyway! Even on loewr rims i cant land a windmill :(

Lol. Maybe.  Or maybe you just really suck at the movement.  I can get drop step windmills on 10ft, I can do a clean 720 on a 8.5 foot rim but I can't even come close to doing BTL off two feet...   Coordination for these things is weird, when I try BTL I bring my arms down and just kill my jump before I even get off the ground, maybe you do the same w your windmills - once you learn to bring the ball up on your rise and then circle it with split legs it gets a lot easier.  Airtime helps of course but I think the coordination is really the problem.
Title: Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
Post by: ADot on September 08, 2016, 12:52:51 pm
I remember adidas used to make super light ball shoes
They were 9 to 10 ounces with its high top. The low tops might of been less.  The current version is chunky like 18 ounces.
Title: Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
Post by: ADot on September 08, 2016, 12:54:32 pm
I might get a racing flat for lifting, bounds and sprints.
Then a low top basketball shoe.
Title: Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
Post by: maxent on October 17, 2017, 05:22:00 am
After my last pair of shoes im done with the whole basketball shoe market. Adidas zero crazy light are heavy and bulky and not worth the money. However i just got a pair of Adidas running shoes and im starting to believe the right solution for dunking will emerge from a running shoe which can pass for basketball/jumping. I dont know why basketball shoes are so completely useless but apparently no one cares, not the players who are too dumb to realise they're using suboptimal shoes (or they are happy to take money and look the other way), not the consumer because apparently they care more about looks than performance. Not the companies because apparently they dont care about building a better performance shoe. Rant over
Title: Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
Post by: AGC on October 17, 2017, 06:15:17 am
I totally agree on bball shoes. I realised after wearing lighter, less bulky shoes that bball shoes (even super low cut) are just too heavy/awkward. I run in the Nike XC waffle racers (best running shoes) and I've found the Nike Metcon 3 (https://www.roguefitness.com/nike-metcon-3-mens-hyper-orange-white-black-chlorine-blue) are a great in-between option, they're essentially running shoes with more structure in the heel for squatting. Great for jumping. lifting and running. Unfortunately it means indirectly supporting crossfit *shudder*...but they really are the best training shoes I've had. Great for basketball too.
Title: Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
Post by: LBSS on October 17, 2017, 08:00:00 am
lotto quaranta iv = greatest dunking shoe. racing-flat light (7-8 ounces), wide/flat sole because designed for tennis (the only issue i had jumping in racing flats was occasionally not feeling enough lateral stability, but that problem vanishes with these), and cheap. only problem is how hard they are to find.

ETA: i have a pair of the quaranta VIP as well -- the exact shoes adarq posted above in fact -- but they're not as good at the iv's. also extremely light but cushier and less firm.
Title: Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
Post by: maxent on October 17, 2017, 02:11:27 pm
I totally agree on bball shoes. I realised after wearing lighter, less bulky shoes that bball shoes (even super low cut) are just too heavy/awkward. I run in the Nike XC waffle racers (best running shoes) and I've found the Nike Metcon 3 (https://www.roguefitness.com/nike-metcon-3-mens-hyper-orange-white-black-chlorine-blue) are a great in-between option, they're essentially running shoes with more structure in the heel for squatting. Great for jumping. lifting and running. Unfortunately it means indirectly supporting crossfit *shudder*...but they really are the best training shoes I've had. Great for basketball too.

nike metcon 3 look like my dream shoe on paper. i would have to try them out but i saw the weight is slightly heavier than my kobes at 11 ounces vs 9. that might be a deal breaker on the ewight front but i do love the idea of one shoe for running, jumping and maybe lifting as well
Title: Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
Post by: AGC on October 18, 2017, 12:36:41 am
I totally agree on bball shoes. I realised after wearing lighter, less bulky shoes that bball shoes (even super low cut) are just too heavy/awkward. I run in the Nike XC waffle racers (best running shoes) and I've found the Nike Metcon 3 (https://www.roguefitness.com/nike-metcon-3-mens-hyper-orange-white-black-chlorine-blue) are a great in-between option, they're essentially running shoes with more structure in the heel for squatting. Great for jumping. lifting and running. Unfortunately it means indirectly supporting crossfit *shudder*...but they really are the best training shoes I've had. Great for basketball too.

nike metcon 3 look like my dream shoe on paper. i would have to try them out but i saw the weight is slightly heavier than my kobes at 11 ounces vs 9. that might be a deal breaker on the ewight front but i do love the idea of one shoe for running, jumping and maybe lifting as well

Yes they're definitely heavier than my other main shoe (Nike XC Zoom Rival) at ~6oz. YMMV but I like them a lot. A bit pricey at $150-$180, but...most bball shoes are around that here.
Title: Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
Post by: maxent on October 18, 2017, 03:18:47 am
I totally agree on bball shoes. I realised after wearing lighter, less bulky shoes that bball shoes (even super low cut) are just too heavy/awkward. I run in the Nike XC waffle racers (best running shoes) and I've found the Nike Metcon 3 (https://www.roguefitness.com/nike-metcon-3-mens-hyper-orange-white-black-chlorine-blue) are a great in-between option, they're essentially running shoes with more structure in the heel for squatting. Great for jumping. lifting and running. Unfortunately it means indirectly supporting crossfit *shudder*...but they really are the best training shoes I've had. Great for basketball too.

nike metcon 3 look like my dream shoe on paper. i would have to try them out but i saw the weight is slightly heavier than my kobes at 11 ounces vs 9. that might be a deal breaker on the ewight front but i do love the idea of one shoe for running, jumping and maybe lifting as well

Yes they're definitely heavier than my other main shoe (Nike XC Zoom Rival) at ~6oz. YMMV but I like them a lot. A bit pricey at $150-$180, but...most bball shoes are around that here.

convinced. ive ordered a pair! I realise a lightweight shoe might be better for getting jumping PRs but for training i dont even mind a slightly heavier one as long as it still lets you get some quality jumps in (anything better than my adidas crazy lights which dont feel right to jump in). Will be interesting to see if they can replace my regular squatting shoes tho, they're getting old now. If they can do that and i can jump rope in them i'll be happy.
Title: Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
Post by: maxent on October 27, 2017, 12:46:59 pm
So if acole recommends something, it's always worth trying it out. The Nike Metcon 3 has already become my all time favourite training shoe. I got them today and used them for training tonight. Feels so good jump in, did some decent depth jumps then loads of RVJs and worked up to a PR level jump (vids on instagram). Did jump rope, felt smooth and easy, could do it all day. In general, it just feels perfect for a shoe for jumping. I'd say it's better than Kobes for basketball too, with Kobes you have to be careful how you land b/c the wrong angle and you can catch the squishy part or something and throw your landing off. Not so with the Metcon 3, all the different angles and i landed safely and securely because there is a uniformity to the shoe's landing regardless of where and how you land. Only hitch is i wouldn't play a full game with them, at least oftne, b/c the harder sole means not as much cushioning. Kobe are prob better for games. Maybe for a final or something i'd just ball in these though.

I think they'd be good for sprinting but i didnt wanna take them on road b/c i think bits of gravel wud get stuck in the grooves - would be fine on grass though. I'll update this when i try them for sprinting.

I didnt squat in them but i did some jump squats with the barbell. Felt fine. I dont think they are going to displace my regular squat shoes tho, the hard sole on those and the metastartisisisi starp just win. But at a pinch, or for a light recovery day, sure cud squat in these.

They look sick too.
Title: Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
Post by: adarqui on October 28, 2017, 12:52:42 pm
damn nice!! thanks for the info!

(http://www.prodirectsoccer.com/productimages/V3_1_Main/152074.jpg)
Title: Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
Post by: AGC on October 29, 2017, 08:34:04 pm
So if acole recommends something, it's always worth trying it out. The Nike Metcon 3 has already become my all time favourite training shoe. I got them today and used them for training tonight. Feels so good jump in, did some decent depth jumps then loads of RVJs and worked up to a PR level jump (vids on instagram). Did jump rope, felt smooth and easy, could do it all day. In general, it just feels perfect for a shoe for jumping. I'd say it's better than Kobes for basketball too, with Kobes you have to be careful how you land b/c the wrong angle and you can catch the squishy part or something and throw your landing off. Not so with the Metcon 3, all the different angles and i landed safely and securely because there is a uniformity to the shoe's landing regardless of where and how you land. Only hitch is i wouldn't play a full game with them, at least oftne, b/c the harder sole means not as much cushioning. Kobe are prob better for games. Maybe for a final or something i'd just ball in these though.

I think they'd be good for sprinting but i didnt wanna take them on road b/c i think bits of gravel wud get stuck in the grooves - would be fine on grass though. I'll update this when i try them for sprinting.

I didnt squat in them but i did some jump squats with the barbell. Felt fine. I dont think they are going to displace my regular squat shoes tho, the hard sole on those and the metastartisisisi starp just win. But at a pinch, or for a light recovery day, sure cud squat in these.

They look sick too.

Good to hear mate! Yes if I had to rank the big three in order with this shoe, it'd be: jumping>>squatting>sprinting. They're not a full-fledged lifting shoe by any means but they're solid enough for me. Also, proper cross country flats are still better for sprinting, but they are totally fine for that as well.
Title: Re: A shoe specifically for dunking
Post by: maxent on October 30, 2017, 03:38:30 am
So if acole recommends something, it's always worth trying it out. The Nike Metcon 3 has already become my all time favourite training shoe. I got them today and used them for training tonight. Feels so good jump in, did some decent depth jumps then loads of RVJs and worked up to a PR level jump (vids on instagram). Did jump rope, felt smooth and easy, could do it all day. In general, it just feels perfect for a shoe for jumping. I'd say it's better than Kobes for basketball too, with Kobes you have to be careful how you land b/c the wrong angle and you can catch the squishy part or something and throw your landing off. Not so with the Metcon 3, all the different angles and i landed safely and securely because there is a uniformity to the shoe's landing regardless of where and how you land. Only hitch is i wouldn't play a full game with them, at least oftne, b/c the harder sole means not as much cushioning. Kobe are prob better for games. Maybe for a final or something i'd just ball in these though.

I think they'd be good for sprinting but i didnt wanna take them on road b/c i think bits of gravel wud get stuck in the grooves - would be fine on grass though. I'll update this when i try them for sprinting.

I didnt squat in them but i did some jump squats with the barbell. Felt fine. I dont think they are going to displace my regular squat shoes tho, the hard sole on those and the metastartisisisi starp just win. But at a pinch, or for a light recovery day, sure cud squat in these.

They look sick too.

Good to hear mate! Yes if I had to rank the big three in order with this shoe, it'd be: jumping>>squatting>sprinting. They're not a full-fledged lifting shoe by any means but they're solid enough for me. Also, proper cross country flats are still better for sprinting, but they are totally fine for that as well.

one thing i might point out is a lot of people (some people??) squat better with a smaller heel than an a typical oly size one. I think Coges might be one of those like me. In that case it's possible that even without the solid heel of an oly shoe, the metcon 3 is a better shoe for those people to squat in. My regular squatting shoes actually have the heel modified to be smaller so i get the best of both worlds. I also squat with oly shoes as as an assistance exercise but if i had to choose oly shoes vs metcon 3 only, im not sure which i'd pick, that would be a harder choice.