Poll

Should I continue with 3x8 or should I switch to 3x5?

Continue with 3x8 then later on switch to 3x5
5 (62.5%)
Switch now to 3x5 since that's enough volume for proper hypertrophy
3 (37.5%)

Total Members Voted: 8

Author Topic: 3x8 or 3x5?  (Read 22441 times)

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adarqui

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Re: 3x8 or 3x5?
« Reply #15 on: October 31, 2010, 06:20:16 am »
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Nah, I'm going to stick with what you outlined. It makes more sense to wave a bit the volume and intensity of the workouts.

cool, it's going to turn out good.

I just remembered, allstarnz had stalled for quite a while on his squat, i told him to rotate 4x10, 2-3x8, & 1x5, if you remember he blew up doing that setting lots of PR's.. rotating is just the way to go.

peace man

Raptor

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Re: 3x8 or 3x5?
« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2010, 06:38:45 am »
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Yeah I think he got from 80 kg for his work sets to about 100 if I remember right.

Kellyb

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Re: 3x8 or 3x5?
« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2010, 01:09:15 pm »
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Raptor what's your routine look like and what exercises are you using?  Have you ever trained specifially for hypertrophy with a higher volume routine like 10 x 10 or anything crazy like 20 rep squats?  If not, you might consider a higher volume alternating intensification/volume format. For example,  on your high volume day go something like 5 x 5, 1 x 15-20.  On your lower volume day go something like 5 x 1-3, 1 x 8-10. 

My hunch is you probably don't grow well in your legs off low rep stuff so some high reps and/or volume will probably do you good.

Raptor

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Re: 3x8 or 3x5?
« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2010, 02:33:34 pm »
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I'm using squat + one-leg straight leg deadlifts all the way to the floor (they're great at targeting my glutes) supersetted with leg curls (I won't ever do GHRs again since they destroy my knees) in workout A, and squat + lunges++leg curls (++ = supersetted) in workout B.

And no, never did that. The most I did was 5x5 work sets with heavy weights in the past (like 2 years ago or so). I tend to quickly lose my mental focus and form when I do high reps per set... it's like I can't maintain my mind into doing the exercise.

You're probably right about the low rep stuff. Last winter I did my own 8-7-6-5 with the same weight as work sets.

So basically if I had 100 as my weight, I'd do 100x8, 100x7, 100x6 and 100x5 as my last set. That ensured I can maintain my mental focus during the sets, since I knew I had to do less and less reps as I went by with my sets. It worked pretty good.

When I stalled I took away one of the sets and continue on getting the weight up. So I might go with 8-7-6 or 7-6-5 (top rep set or low rep set eliminated) and go on with that. I wrote about this in the evo blog.

adarqui

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Re: 3x8 or 3x5?
« Reply #19 on: October 31, 2010, 03:45:29 pm »
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Raptor what's your routine look like and what exercises are you using?  Have you ever trained specifially for hypertrophy with a higher volume routine like 10 x 10 or anything crazy like 20 rep squats?  If not, you might consider a higher volume alternating intensification/volume format. For example,  on your high volume day go something like 5 x 5, 1 x 15-20.  On your lower volume day go something like 5 x 1-3, 1 x 8-10.  

My hunch is you probably don't grow well in your legs off low rep stuff so some high reps and/or volume will probably do you good.

i'm in total agreement for people who are dead-set on hypertrophy (or a dedicated hypertrophy block), 20 rep squats have put so much mass on me 1.5 years ago it was ridiculous.. My legs became monstrous (relatively) by the time I hit 225 x 20, I couldn't jump for shit, but I put on a ton of mass.. I remember going from 170 to 180 or so on my 3-4 week 20 rep squat block.

10 x 10 is solid too.

In raptor's case though, with his aches/injuries/knee issue, I wouldn't do 20 rep/10x10. It would probably make him so sore + cause that knee so achy that he would literally kill himself. HEH

peace

steven-miller

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Re: 3x8 or 3x5?
« Reply #20 on: October 31, 2010, 04:18:43 pm »
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What's up Raptor, you got into bodybuilding mode now or what's the deal? Why the focus on hypertrophy suddenly instead of strength?

Raptor

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Re: 3x8 or 3x5?
« Reply #21 on: October 31, 2010, 04:37:39 pm »
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Because I feel like I've kinda maxed up neurally for the amount of muscle I have right now. So I need more muscle and then further on, less fat (a lot less fat if I want to jump well, especially off one leg). Obviously at my strength levels and time spent with strength work (which has been pretty solid in the last years though) I can't really have maxed out neurally, but I just feel the need for more hypertrophy for a while, and then switch to lower rep schemes to improve neurally on that added muscle (strength work).

I want more posterior chain muscle specifically. Maybe I should go with more reps in my assistance exercises and keep the reps kind of low in the squats? Like for lunges/one-leg RDLs etc go for 8-12, and for squats go with 3x8 and 3x5?

LanceSTS

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Re: 3x8 or 3x5?
« Reply #22 on: October 31, 2010, 05:13:01 pm »
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  I wouldnt reccomend the 20 rep squats (or even a "hypertrophy block") in your case Raptor, you are constantly having issues with the bar hurting your shoulders/wrists, your knees hurt, etc.  A good set of 20 rep squats will likely be very painful regarding your issues and cause you to not complete the sets with adequate loading.  

  Sets of 5, sets of 6, sets of 3, etc. are going to be more about what you PUT INTO THE REP than how many reps you actually perform.  Alot of athletes can focus much better on form, speed, tightness, etc. during a lower rep range and will gain more strength and hypertrophy from this range than they would doing a higher rep set where a high number of reps get sloppy and slow due to different forms of fatigue, irrelevant to your actual goal.  

 I agree that rotating set/rep ranges is the way to go, I just wouldnt put an exact number on it such as 5 and 8, I would do 4 x 3-5, and 3 x 8-10, or something of that nature.  That gives you some room for the days when youre stronger than normal to go up a couple of reps as well as when your not feeling well to still make the rep range.  

 Its just my personal experience but going into a set "hypertrophy block" for an athlete wanting strength and jumping gains has never worked out well.  The switching period is always too long going back to an explosive/speed emphasis and often the CNS is firing on very low levels.  But I would never have an athlete do a session that didnt always include some type of explosive strength or reactive type movements in it either.  Movement effeciency, cns effeciency, etc. should always be maintained to some degree imo.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2010, 05:20:16 pm by LanceSTS »
Relax.

Raptor

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Re: 3x8 or 3x5?
« Reply #23 on: October 31, 2010, 05:25:00 pm »
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I could go with Kelly's money sets as well... like a set of up to say 6 reps with a weight followed by some volume sets. I just feel it's too complicated. I want to have a hypertrophy block right now for a while and then switch to lower rep ranges. 3x8 works pretty good at the moment (except the elbow and wrist pain) and I'm upping up in weight. I'm using low weights right now (like ~60-70%) and keep on getting them up. Right now I'm at 90 kg for 3x8 and I should plateau at about 105 from what I feel I'm currently capable of.

I don't really like staying at a weight and keep on trying to improve on that weight... if I stall I usually reset to a lower weight by like 10% or so and start going up again.

So maybe going with 3x8@90 tomorrow and 3x5@100 Thursday, then 3x8@92.5 and 3x5@102.5 etc etc etc until I stall is what I'll do.

Raptor

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Re: 3x8 or 3x5?
« Reply #24 on: November 01, 2010, 04:21:52 am »
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Oh and about the hypertrophy stuff: if you look at Shannon Brown, he's having massive posterior chain muscle mass... yet he jumps 45+ off one leg. You can see he voluntarily generates the force to get up there.

adarqui

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Re: 3x8 or 3x5?
« Reply #25 on: November 01, 2010, 05:29:54 am »
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Oh and about the hypertrophy stuff: if you look at Shannon Brown, he's having massive posterior chain muscle mass... yet he jumps 45+ off one leg. You can see he voluntarily generates the force to get up there.

what do you mean yet? massive hamstring muscle is going to aid in dlrvj/slrvj, but it's also a sign that shannon brown simply is explosive & carries a bit more muscle than the average person, in the right places, im sure his glutes and quads are equally massive, similar to what you would see in most sprinters.

peace man

Raptor

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Re: 3x8 or 3x5?
« Reply #26 on: November 01, 2010, 06:04:33 am »
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What I meant by "yet" is that people tend to say that in order to jump well off one leg you need to be rail-skinny... and that going for hypertrophy (I see Shannon as being "too big" to consider him a great one leg jumper the first time I ever see him/not knowing if he's able to jump or not) is going to kill your one-leg jump (even if the hypertrophy occurs in the "right" places).

Same goes for D Wade, LeBron and other people. They might have thin ankles etc but they have "big" muscles in the upperlegs/butt.

LanceSTS

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Re: 3x8 or 3x5?
« Reply #27 on: November 01, 2010, 06:24:59 am »
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Oh and about the hypertrophy stuff: if you look at Shannon Brown, he's having massive posterior chain muscle mass... yet he jumps 45+ off one leg. You can see he voluntarily generates the force to get up there.

Yes, and if werent for his hypertrophy blocks he would never have built those glutes and hams.  Years of bodybuilding training was his ticket to the pros.  I would never say you need to be skinny to jump off one leg, never ever ever ever.  I strongly believe that you have to train specifically for it though if single leg jumping is the primary goal, none of which involve a "hypertrophy" block.  GPP block yes, but your gpp for jumping involves alot more than purely strength work.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2010, 06:28:28 am by LanceSTS »
Relax.

Raptor

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Re: 3x8 or 3x5?
« Reply #28 on: November 01, 2010, 07:03:20 am »
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So a 8RM rep scheme is a bodybuilding rep scheme? 8RM is decent for strength gains and more towards hypertrophy than a 5RM rep scheme is... I don't think there's a huge difference. 12-15 reps would be.

I mean, do you find anything wrong going with 8 rep sets in a workout and 5 rep sets in another?

LanceSTS

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Re: 3x8 or 3x5?
« Reply #29 on: November 01, 2010, 07:24:01 am »
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 Absolutely not, 8 reps is just fine and so is 10 and so is 2, what my concern was you set on a "hypertrophy phase" which is essentially abandoning speed strength and power specific work altogether.  The rep ranges are all fine in most cases, in yours I would definitely lean towards the lower rep range due to your specific situations with different nagging injuries and pains.  The rep range is not nearly as important as what you put into each rep anyway. 
Relax.