Author Topic: Calfs  (Read 20891 times)

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Samwell

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Re: Calfs
« Reply #30 on: March 23, 2011, 01:24:51 am »
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$ick3nin.vend3tta

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Re: Calfs
« Reply #31 on: March 23, 2011, 02:41:54 am »
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i'd do 5 (or more) sets of calf raises to fatigue on days you really train them, using a weight heavy enough to fatigue them by 20-25 reps.. they respond better to higher rep training imo.

make them stronger and you will jump higher/run faster.

adarqui, Do you think calf/achilles training reacts better to dynamic or isometric work the best?, specifically in the weight room. Or a combo of both?.

Just found this: http://jap.physiology.org/content/107/4/1181.short


What you reckon?.

It states: Isometric contractions reduce plantar flexor moment, Achilles tendon stiffness, and neuromuscular activity but remove the subsequent effects of stretch.

Isn't that a good thing?. Reducing achilles tendon stiffness?.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2011, 03:18:02 am by $ick3nin.vend3tta »

adarqui

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Re: Calfs
« Reply #32 on: March 23, 2011, 03:26:44 am »
+1
i'd do 5 (or more) sets of calf raises to fatigue on days you really train them, using a weight heavy enough to fatigue them by 20-25 reps.. they respond better to higher rep training imo.

make them stronger and you will jump higher/run faster.

adarqui, Do you think calf/achilles training reacts better to dynamic or isometric work the best?, specifically in the weight room. Or a combo of both?.

Just found this: http://jap.physiology.org/content/107/4/1181.short


What you reckon?.

It states: Isometric contractions reduce plantar flexor moment, Achilles tendon stiffness, and neuromuscular activity but remove the subsequent effects of stretch.

Isn't that a good thing?. Reducing achilles tendon stiffness?.

i hate isometrics with a passion, i love quasi-isometrics (heavy lifting).. much of very heavy lifting are a series of isometric contractions, in a sense. the problem with purely isometric contractions is that, whether yielding or overcoming, their specificity/transfer just plain old sucks.. overcoming isos hit the tendons hard, yielding hits the muscles hard, but they both have horrible transfer to actual dynamic movements imo.. for example, a calf raise iso, you'd be better off just repping out the calf raises on a bar and improving strength through as much of the rom as possible, rather than working different iso angles and hoping it transfers.

isometrics are the devil in disguise.. hardly anyone, anywhere, has ever utilized them to achieve significant gains..

you want to improve strength in the calves/achilles with more transfer to sport/jump/sprint? hit them hard with regular barbell/db calve raises, standing (and possibly seated), and make sure you progress that strength over time.. like i said before, a 1xBW calve raise vs 2xBW calve raise works the exact same as 1xBW squat vs 2xBW squat in regards to jumping/sprinting etc..

regardless of muscle stiffness, tendon compliance, and all that minutia, you want to improve your measurables on the simple isotonic lifts, that's it, nothing fancy.. then you want to jump, sprint, do rebounds, and eat good.. no substitute for that.

isos are a devil in disguise because they seem fancy, are backed by a ton of 'clinical research', but they have no substantial application in ACTUAL performance enhancement, don't care what the inno sport huggers say.

pC hope that helps.. lol








and lol @ axel's nut comment, i love that quote.

Raptor

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Re: Calfs
« Reply #33 on: March 23, 2011, 06:57:54 am »
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Would you use isos at a certain point of collapse (say as in that "knee collapse" angle in a one-leg jump)?

$ick3nin.vend3tta

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Re: Calfs
« Reply #34 on: March 23, 2011, 07:13:03 am »
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and lol @ axel's nut comment, i love that quote.

Where's this?.  

adarqui

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Re: Calfs
« Reply #35 on: March 23, 2011, 12:44:38 pm »
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Would you use isos at a certain point of collapse (say as in that "knee collapse" angle in a one-leg jump)?

nope, isos are mental masturbation.. if you're going to incorporate isos like that, they are SUPER SUPPLEMENTARY ASSISTANCE, you can't put any of your eggs in that basket thinking it will yield gains, you have to just perform them and if they give you gains good, if not, it's because they are isos.. so don't make them a primary part of your program because they usually lack any significant impact which would transfer to sport. i know i'm probably pissing alot of people off with those comments but, "traditional training" is far more effective than isos, it should be the primary type of training one uses to achieve gains, isos are just "fun little toys you try and hope they work".

you could do bodyweight iso work daily, multi daily, etc, hoping to improve some motor patterns/firing patterns, that's about all their good for imo.






and lol @ axel's nut comment, i love that quote.

Where's this?. 

here:
Quote from: Axel
Try to hit yourself in the balls with a hammer. Then jump. You won't get very high.

lmao

btw your avatar looks f'n beast as hell.. perfectly cropped, looks sick.

pr0pz :D

JackW

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Re: Calfs
« Reply #36 on: March 23, 2011, 08:53:05 pm »
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Hi Andrew

I agree about thge use of isos from a performance point of view as being limited. This is my experience as well. However, and I appreciate I am getting off topic here, I have found weighted split squat isos to be beneficial in a warm up to help get the muscles activated. I know the guys I train seem to feel better and from my own experience I beleive they help alleviate knee pain because my quads and glutes work better afterwards.

Jack

bball2020

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Re: Calfs
« Reply #37 on: March 23, 2011, 11:11:55 pm »
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Jack, do you view them superior to other forms of glute activation pre workout (glute bridge holds etc)?

What duration do you normally do them for/weight?

adarqui

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Re: Calfs
« Reply #38 on: March 23, 2011, 11:16:30 pm »
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Hi Andrew

I agree about thge use of isos from a performance point of view as being limited. This is my experience as well. However, and I appreciate I am getting off topic here, I have found weighted split squat isos to be beneficial in a warm up to help get the muscles activated. I know the guys I train seem to feel better and from my own experience I beleive they help alleviate knee pain because my quads and glutes work better afterwards.

Jack

thanks for the input jackW






Jack, do you view them superior to other forms of glute activation pre workout (glute bridge holds etc)?

What duration do you normally do them for/weight?

the only problem with those, for me personally, would be that they would stretch out my quads too much before dunking etc.. i've done them before prior to sprints/dunks and it wrecks how my quads feel, it's odd.. for stuff before dunking/sprinting, i like the prone glute/prone rev hyper stuff..

that's my 2cents on that..

pC

tychver

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Re: Calfs
« Reply #39 on: March 23, 2011, 11:25:40 pm »
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the only problem with those, for me personally, would be that they would stretch out my quads too much before dunking etc.. i've done them before prior to sprints/dunks and it wrecks how my quads feel, it's odd.. for stuff before dunking/sprinting, i like the prone glute/prone rev hyper stuff..

that's my 2cents on that..

pC

Ja I found the best way were slow alternating lunges holding a hip flexor stretch for 5-10 seconds each time and then air squats holding onto something. Too much hip flexor streching or glute bridges totally killed my performance.

$ick3nin.vend3tta

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Re: Calfs
« Reply #40 on: March 24, 2011, 10:45:19 am »
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I have found weighted split squat isos to be beneficial in a warm up to help get the muscles activated. I know the guys I train seem to feel better and from my own experience I believe they help alleviate knee pain because my quads and glutes work better afterwards.


How do you employ the weight, dumbells?, weighted vest? & for what duration?.




Doing them for time/bodyweight alone (60secs+) seems kinda tough.


<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otBgoY3l2Ts" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otBgoY3l2Ts</a>

$ick3nin.vend3tta

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Re: Calfs
« Reply #41 on: March 24, 2011, 10:49:08 am »
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Overcoming isos hit the tendons hard, yielding hits the muscles hard, but they both have horrible transfer to actual dynamic movements imo.. for example, a calf raise iso, you'd be better off just repping out the calf raises on a bar and improving strength through as much of the rom as possible, rather than working different iso angles and hoping it transfers.

adarqui, Is there any links/studies you can provide which backs that up "Overcoming isos hit the tendons hard".


dirksilver

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Re: Calfs
« Reply #42 on: March 24, 2011, 11:34:11 am »
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the only iso i ever do is this iso i saw lance post a while back that basically mimics a single leg jump at full extension...and the only reason i do it is i feel it helps get my glutes,hams and calves firing properly...so yeah i do isos only for firing patterns

adarqui

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Re: Calfs
« Reply #43 on: March 24, 2011, 12:04:31 pm »
+2
Overcoming isos hit the tendons hard, yielding hits the muscles hard, but they both have horrible transfer to actual dynamic movements imo.. for example, a calf raise iso, you'd be better off just repping out the calf raises on a bar and improving strength through as much of the rom as possible, rather than working different iso angles and hoping it transfers.

adarqui, Is there any links/studies you can provide which backs that up "Overcoming isos hit the tendons hard".



probably a ton on google scholar, but just think about it, if you are pushing/pulling against an immovable object, the muscles can't really change length, so the tendons will deform more, you're pushing/pulling against something that won't move, with intense effort, this is going to cause a ton of "strain" on the tendons.. in a yielding iso, the muscle is constantly changing length (very slightly) as you stabilize yourself/yield position (think about holding a lunge iso and then think about how you slowly drop lower more and more, or at least, have the urge/ability too).

pc

Raptor

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Re: Calfs
« Reply #44 on: March 24, 2011, 02:40:47 pm »
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What about a basketball "aggresive" defensive stance? If I really really play defense and hold that defensive stance, I get sooo tired in the quads and calves... it's really weird. I basically stay in that defensive stance position more or less isometric in nature, with just a small knee/hip angle variation. It's interesting what you guys think about that?