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Performance Area => Strength, Power, Reactivity, & Speed Discussion => Topic started by: Flander on April 24, 2012, 03:30:48 am
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Hi guys. Need your infinite wisdom.
Ive thrown the hammer for nearly 13 years now and even though I love to throw the hammer, its time for change. So either by the end of june or medio september, I want to mix things up.
I need your help, because I have a hard time deciding what to do now and a new view on things might help.
Ive considered the following:
1) Train for decathlon. Focus will be on sprinting and jumping. Ill need to loose ~20kg of bw and try to keep my strength as much as possible.
2) Change to powerlifting for a while and build more strength. Slowly cut fat and jump/spring on the side.
I really like to jump and would like to do the decathlon. To do this I really need to loose weight as its to damn hard on my joints to jump and run at my current bw.
I also really like to lift and I think I have a chance to set a danish record in powerlifting and maybe go to an international championship. But this would force me to remain heavy.
Whats you view on this. Do you see a solution I dont or have an amazing idea. Feel free to share it.
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CHASE POWERLIFTING RECORD. you'll probably never be an olympic decathlete, but having a chance to set a national record is too good to pass up. give it a year and then re-assess.
then, decathlon.
for the fats:
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/the-rapid-fat-loss-handbook (http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/the-rapid-fat-loss-handbook)
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/a-guide-to-flexible-dieting (http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/a-guide-to-flexible-dieting)
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Thanks for your reply man. Appriciate your thoughts and the links to the books. Will take a look at them.
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Powerlifting!
You have the chance to set a record?!?!
Do it man.
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Powerlifting!
You have the chance to set a record?!?!
Do it man.
Yeah Im fairly close to the national record in DL for my weightclass. If I focus my training on gaining strength rather than throwing, I think I can take it.
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60+ reads and two comments. Does this mean everyone agrees on powerlifting?
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60+ reads and two comments. Does this mean everyone agrees on powerlifting?
Yup. You're a beast man, see how beastly you can be as a pure powerlifter.
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What about World's Strongest Men? I had a very fat guy who bragged around for deadlifting 240 kg with pretty bad form... and I think relatively he was just deadlifting 2x. And he bragged around for participating int he local World's Strongest Men competition. They FIRST thought that came to my mind was "damn, Flander would kick this guy's ass any second and you don't see him brag about being "World's Strongest".
So... who knows, right?
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What about World's Strongest Men? I had a very fat guy who bragged around for deadlifting 240 kg with pretty bad form... and I think relatively he was just deadlifting 2x. And he bragged around for participating int he local World's Strongest Men competition. They FIRST thought that came to my mind was "damn, Flander would kick this guy's ass any second and you don't see him brag about being "World's Strongest".
So... who knows, right?
Theyre absolute beasts in WSM. Most have 380+ kg DL. Wont get to that ever.
60+ reads and two comments. Does this mean everyone agrees on powerlifting?
Yup. You're a beast man, see how beastly you can be as a pure powerlifter.
Thanks man.
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Powelifting, definitely.
If you had to choose between the two, try powelifting first, then do decathlon.
Much easier transition and you won't have to regain all that muscle you're going to have to lose if you would choose decathlon first.
Go get it!
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Hey Flander,
From my perspective those two options couldn't be more different, so it really depends on what you value most. I've always thought that decathletes are the best overall athletes. They do so many things at close to elite levels, and could probably be put into just about any physical/athletic situation and come out on top. Personally, these guys are closest to the physical ideal. But if you have a chance to be elite at something, than that factors in independently. I've never been in a situation where I had a chance to be the cream of the crop at something, so I can't speak to how important and motivating that is.
I understand why everyone is urging you towards powerlifting here, going for glory and all that, but even though you might not reach the same pinnacle of sport in decathlon, the training would probably set you up to be a much better athlete for a long time (if that is what is important to you.) The training would also be more varied, and possibly more fun, depending on what you like.
A little bit obvious I'm sure, but that's my two cents. Decathletes are badass.
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If it were me it would easily be the decathlon just because your window of opportunity is much wider in powerlifting than it is as a decathlete. Depending on your competition (I assume you'll primarily be local), you can be a competitive powerlifter well into your 40s or 50s, but competitive in the decathlon only until maybe your mid 30s. I think you're 29 now so if you choose powerlifting and regret it in 2 years, your decathlete option is pretty much out the window as it would take you a while to drop the additional weight and develop the skills. If you choose the decathlon and want to switch in 2 years, you still have 10-15 years to become a solid powerlifter.
I also wouldn't overlook the health and quality of life benefits from dropping 20kg from your frame even if for only a few years.
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Thanks all. Appreciate all you opinions. Youve voiced most of my own thoughts. Ill have to think this over. Either way, Ill continue with the hammer untill at least june, so have some time yet.
What I boil your and my thoughts down to is the following:
If I want reknown, the way to go is powerlifting. I dont stand a chance in decathlon nationally nor internationally.
For better health and a more comfortable body, I should loose weight. If youve never tried to be heavy, let me tell you, its hard. Sore joints and getting winded faster. Hurts to run or jump, ei. play ball.
If I wanted to become the strongest I could, powerlifting is the way.
As someone wrote, powerlifting I can do for years to come. To succeed just a little bit in decathlon I need to get a move on since Im already 29.
And more. My gf has a view as well, no wonder.
Thanks again all.
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What about male pole dancing?
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What about male pole dancing?
Its "pole vaulting" and yeah, I think its part of the decathlon.. so good point. :P
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What about male pole dancing?
Its "pole vaulting" and yeah, I think its part of the decathlon.. so good point. :P
no, really, I was talking about pole dance
(http://poledancingplay.com/images/pole_dancingmen2.jpg)
since flander is asking for something to focus on I just gave him and idea
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What about male pole dancing?
Its "pole vaulting" and yeah, I think its part of the decathlon.. so good point. :P
no, really, I was talking about pole dance
(http://poledancingplay.com/images/pole_dancingmen2.jpg)
since flander is asking for something to focus on I just gave him and idea
Hahaha ;D
That would not only be extremely cool and different, but also gay :D
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Well why don't you do the "trendy" american teenage rebel thing these days by "exploring new things" and "finding out about yourself?"
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Bodybuilding
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From what videos I've seen of you, and how you look, def powerlifting; It would seem hard/close to impossible for a guy with your body composition to look like : (http://alt.coxnewsweb.com/shared-blogs/austin/golden/upload/2012/04/_i_got_a_chance/trey-hardee-2009-8-20-17-41-3.jpg) You know yourself better, but my opinion is, you can't go wrong with powerlifting.
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Well why don't you do the "trendy" american teenage rebel thing these days by "exploring new things" and "finding out about yourself?"
Huh?
Bodybuilding
Nah. I would like 20inch bicpes though ;)
From what videos I've seen of you, and how you look, def powerlifting; It would seem hard/close to impossible for a guy with your body composition to look like : (http://alt.coxnewsweb.com/shared-blogs/austin/golden/upload/2012/04/_i_got_a_chance/trey-hardee-2009-8-20-17-41-3.jpg) You know yourself better, but my opinion is, you can't go wrong with powerlifting.
Never said I had the built to be an decathlete, I just like to do more than one disciline. Though I am naturally lighter and more lean than my current self. To get to this size has cost alot of food. :)
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I like to make choices so that failure still results in some measure of improvement.
I originally got back to into sprinting 18 months ago to get back in shape and see if I could beat my old PRs. I wanted to run 10.4. I haven't come close since deciding to train again, in fact i've only been sub 11 once in the last year. Still... compared to a year ago my life is immeasurably better thanks to sprinting. I'm 30 pounds lighter and I can step on the field and play a mean game of flag football or soccer. The general increase to my athleticism is amazing, even if I haven't rediscovered what my definition of success is as a 100m sprinter....
That's why I favor the decathalon over powerlifting. Sure you might become a powerlifting champ. But if not you will be an overweight fat looking guy who can lift a decent amount of iron but can't chase his kids around the house because he get's out of breath too quickly!
You also might not be a great decathalete. But you will have a remarkable level of general fitness, learn all kids of new skills like hurdling, javelin, running and be able to beat your avg guy in a sprint, a middle distance race, and a long race. You will be able to enjoy team sports and recreation much better and be healthier for it.
Sorry, to get on the soapbox. Obviously, I'm a big fan of track and field. But there is a reason why you guy's call it athletics in Europe! It's the mother of all sport. And the decathalon is the granddaddy of all events. Also, you are lucky if you currently have access to all the implements (ie. hurdles, pole vault, etc.)... If I had access I'd probably train to be a decathlete too! Powerlifting equipement is much easier to come by!
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I like to make choices so that failure still results in some measure of improvement.
I originally got back to into sprinting 18 months ago to get back in shape and see if I could beat my old PRs. I wanted to run 10.4. I haven't come close since deciding to train again, in fact i've only been sub 11 once in the last year. Still... compared to a year ago my life is immeasurably better thanks to sprinting. I'm 30 pounds lighter and I can step on the field and play a mean game of flag football or soccer. The general increase to my athleticism is amazing, even if I haven't rediscovered what my definition of success is as a 100m sprinter....
That's why I favor the decathalon over powerlifting. Sure you might become a powerlifting champ. But if not you will be an overweight fat looking guy who can lift a decent amount of iron but can't chase his kids around the house because he get's out of breath too quickly!
You also might not be a great decathalete. But you will have a remarkable level of general fitness, learn all kids of new skills like hurdling, javelin, running and be able to beat your avg guy in a sprint, a middle distance race, and a long race. You will be able to enjoy team sports and recreation much better and be healthier for it.
Sorry, to get on the soapbox. Obviously, I'm a big fan of track and field. But there is a reason why you guy's call it athletics in Europe! It's the mother of all sport. And the decathalon is the granddaddy of all events. Also, you are lucky if you currently have access to all the implements (ie. hurdles, pole vault, etc.)... If I had access I'd probably train to be a decathlete too! Powerlifting equipement is much easier to come by!
I thank you for your opinion. Obviously I love track as well. Has done it for 14 years now.
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I think you should become a bodybuilder, you'd find it a nice change of pace and it might be fun for a while. Do it for 12 weeks then go back to your training feeling nice and fresh and ready to tackle some new PRs.
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I think you should become a bodybuilder, you'd find it a nice change of pace and it might be fun for a while. Do it for 12 weeks then go back to your training feeling nice and fresh and ready to tackle some new PRs.
I actually had something like this in mind. Not BB, but just lifting weights for a couple of months to get my strength up a bit. Ive done this before, but only to throw better. This time it would be for pure strength gains and nothing else. Could be awesome for a period.
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I think you should become a bodybuilder, you'd find it a nice change of pace and it might be fun for a while. Do it for 12 weeks then go back to your training feeling nice and fresh and ready to tackle some new PRs.
I actually had something like this in mind. Not BB, but just lifting weights for a couple of months to get my strength up a bit. Ive done this before, but only to throw better. This time it would be for pure strength gains and nothing else. Could be awesome for a period.
if you are not sure what to do, then this is the best thing to keep you busy. remember, strength gains (even with proven methods) take the longest to develop.
nothing is more helpful than getting the backbone of most of the athletic movements stronger while you procrastinate deciding what to do next.
good luck!
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I think you should become a bodybuilder, you'd find it a nice change of pace and it might be fun for a while. Do it for 12 weeks then go back to your training feeling nice and fresh and ready to tackle some new PRs.
I actually had something like this in mind. Not BB, but just lifting weights for a couple of months to get my strength up a bit. Ive done this before, but only to throw better. This time it would be for pure strength gains and nothing else. Could be awesome for a period.
if you are not sure what to do, then this is the best thing to keep you busy. remember, strength gains (even with proven methods) take the longest to develop.
nothing is more helpful than getting the backbone of most of the athletic movements stronger while you procrastinate deciding what to do next.
good luck!
Thanks man. Ya I agree. Im fairly sure what I want to do now, but its still 1½ months of, so I can still change my opinion.
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I say you work for relative strength for a while:
Improve strength for the reasons Kingfish said
But also cut some of that fat and get lean. Maybe you'll taking a liking to bodybuilding when you look better, who knows? In addition it'll get you lighter in the case you do train for the dec. or maybe you'll want to increase your vertical again.
Just another idea.
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I say you work for relative strength for a while:
Improve strength for the reasons Kingfish said
But also cut some of that fat and get lean. Maybe you'll taking a liking to bodybuilding when you look better, who knows? In addition it'll get you lighter in the case you do train for the dec. or maybe you'll want to increase your vertical again.
Just another idea.
Dont like BB much. But who knows.
Anyways, my plan so far is loose ~10kg and then increase strength, without gaining more weight. So yeah that would increase my relative strength. Will add in some sprints once a week I think, to get my body used to sprinting again. Will probably try out some new program Ive been thinking up. Very exciting.
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I'd say go with power lifting, if it doesnt take too long for you to beat that national record or something. The n you can go for deca. it'd be fun.
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I would do whichever sport I'd be most competitive in and where I see the most potential for improvement as well. But that might not be why YOU do sports. I could see why you like both sports. Powerlifting is probably a sport where you can improve hugely over time though. Do not know whether the same is true for deca.
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Probably ballet
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I would do whichever sport I'd be most competitive in and where I see the most potential for improvement as well. But that might not be why YOU do sports. I could see why you like both sports. Powerlifting is probably a sport where you can improve hugely over time though. Do not know whether the same is true for deca.
I fully understand that view and thats probably part of the reason why powerlifting is so appealing to me. I believe I have greater potential in powerlifting/strongman or that kind of event, compard to other sports. But due to my height, I have to keep a high bw to compete in these and tbh I dont like the feel of my body anymore. Its to bulky, stiff and unathletic.
Im also considering the fact that I have a tiny daughter now, and I want to be able to play with her, without getting winded or breaking something due to my size.
I know that I wont be able to succeed in decathlon. Im to old and not explosive enough by nature. But it will improve my athleticism and Ill be able to do alot of different sports on the side, play ball, do parkour and stuff.
Bottim line, Ive probably decided to go for the loose weight, keep lifting and start jumping/sprinting again plan. It just seems more prudent right now.
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I fully understand that view and thats probably part of the reason why powerlifting is so appealing to me. I believe I have greater potential in powerlifting/strongman or that kind of event, compard to other sports. But due to my height, I have to keep a high bw to compete in these and tbh I dont like the feel of my body anymore. Its to bulky, stiff and unathletic.
Im also considering the fact that I have a tiny daughter now, and I want to be able to play with her, without getting winded or breaking something due to my size.
I know that I wont be able to succeed in decathlon. Im to old and not explosive enough by nature. But it will improve my athleticism and Ill be able to do alot of different sports on the side, play ball, do parkour and stuff.
Bottim line, Ive probably decided to go for the loose weight, keep lifting and start jumping/sprinting again plan. It just seems more prudent right now.
A lot of athletes that had to have a high bodyweight to be competitive in their respective sports eventually don't want to be THAT big anymore. And I can understand this very well. However, when being competitive is not a primary consideration right now ("I wont be able to succeed in decathlon"), then you could also compete in powerlifting in a lower weight class. Sure, you would be way better, and probably quite good, in the big-boys-classes, but that is not relevant. Your focus would be to improve by a significant margin in the weight class you choose and the nature of the lifts will make improvements and feelings of accomplishment possible for many years to come.
I don't want to persuade you btw. Your plan as it is right now sounds absolutely fine to me. I just wanted to share this perspective with you because I do not think that bodyweight or height should be a limitation for your decision IF things like "being the best", "becoming a champion" and other stuff young guys dream about, are not even the primary focus right now.
Anyways, regardless your decision, I wish you best of luck with it. I am sure you will pick what is best for YOU and what will make you happy.
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I fully understand that view and thats probably part of the reason why powerlifting is so appealing to me. I believe I have greater potential in powerlifting/strongman or that kind of event, compard to other sports. But due to my height, I have to keep a high bw to compete in these and tbh I dont like the feel of my body anymore. Its to bulky, stiff and unathletic.
Im also considering the fact that I have a tiny daughter now, and I want to be able to play with her, without getting winded or breaking something due to my size.
I know that I wont be able to succeed in decathlon. Im to old and not explosive enough by nature. But it will improve my athleticism and Ill be able to do alot of different sports on the side, play ball, do parkour and stuff.
Bottim line, Ive probably decided to go for the loose weight, keep lifting and start jumping/sprinting again plan. It just seems more prudent right now.
A lot of athletes that had to have a high bodyweight to be competitive in their respective sports eventually don't want to be THAT big anymore. And I can understand this very well. However, when being competitive is not a primary consideration right now ("I wont be able to succeed in decathlon"), then you could also compete in powerlifting in a lower weight class. Sure, you would be way better, and probably quite good, in the big-boys-classes, but that is not relevant. Your focus would be to improve by a significant margin in the weight class you choose and the nature of the lifts will make improvements and feelings of accomplishment possible for many years to come.
I don't want to persuade you btw. Your plan as it is right now sounds absolutely fine to me. I just wanted to share this perspective with you because I do not think that bodyweight or height should be a limitation for your decision IF things like "being the best", "becoming a champion" and other stuff young guys dream about, are not even the primary focus right now.
Anyways, regardless your decision, I wish you best of luck with it. I am sure you will pick what is best for YOU and what will make you happy.
Thanks Steven.
Ive considered competing in powerlifting in a lower weightclass and perhaps I might even be able to break the national record in DL in one of those classes as well. But I really want to work on relative strength more now and become beast explosive.