Adarq.org
Performance Area => Strength, Power, Reactivity, & Speed Discussion => Topic started by: D4 on July 10, 2011, 12:51:13 pm
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So what I don't understand is, when I first started squatting, I did quarter/half type squats. I just went down until I felt my glutes burning up. During these squats, I would always be sore in my glutes the next day, no quad soreness.
I switched the parallel squats, and now I feel the burn on each rep on my quads like crazy, but no glutes firing. The next day only slight quad soreness.
Today, I continued my parallel squatting, but for some reason, I felt the burn on my quads AND MY HAMSTRINGS for the first time.
What's going on here?
Also, how come my glutes are NEVER sore now, even if I do dead lifts primarily focusing on using my lower body? I end up sore as hell in my hamstrings the next day when I dead lift but no glutes at all?
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So what I don't understand is, when I first started squatting, I did quarter/half type squats. I just went down until I felt my glutes burning up. During these squats, I would always be sore in my glutes the next day, no quad soreness.
quads weren't "stretched enough under tension" to get sore.
I switched the parallel squats, and now I feel the burn on each rep on my quads like crazy, but no glutes firing. The next day only slight quad soreness.
ya the quads are contracting eccentrically through a greater range of motion.. weird about the glutes though, perhaps you are allowing your knees to travel forward a bit much instead of really pulling those femurs back as you descend.
Today, I continued my parallel squatting, but for some reason, I felt the burn on my quads AND MY HAMSTRINGS for the first time.
quads/hams could still be a bit fatigued from the deep session? dno, i wouldn't imagine quads would be freaking out at parallel or higher if they hadn't before, sounds like they are still fatigued..
What's going on here?
fatigue from previous session probably.
Also, how come my glutes are NEVER sore now, even if I do dead lifts primarily focusing on using my lower body? I end up sore as hell in my hamstrings the next day when I dead lift but no glutes at all?
well hamstrings get sore very easily, especially in such a lengthened position when deadlifting/rdl'n.. as for glutes, they probably have just become "too strong" given the movements you do.. glutes & quads are well adapted, hamstrings are suffering/weak link.. if you want to destroy your glutes, try barbell BSS, deep db or barbell walking lunges, or db single leg 'squat' (not pistols)... your glutes will start getting sore again for sure.
pc
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Don't worry about NOT being sore. There is nothing wrong with not feeling pain in your muscles for days after a work-out.
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Thanks guys, I'll just keep hitting those squats and dead lifts and just get stronger, without worrying too much about the soreness patterns changing.
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Wait a minute, the thing about this is, not only are my glutes not getting sore, but I don't feel it in my glutes at all during my squats or trap bar dead lifts or conventional dead lifts lol. And I am doing the DL's in a lower body dominant way, using my hips, etc..
Also adarq, I try to do my squats sitting back as much as I can.
Does this mean my glutes are not being worked out? I definitely feel it in my quads and hams on each rep, but don't feel shit on my glutes.
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Wait a minute, the thing about this is, not only are my glutes not getting sore, but I don't feel it in my glutes at all during my squats or trap bar dead lifts or conventional dead lifts lol. And I am doing the DL's in a lower body dominant way, using my hips, etc..
Also adarq, I try to do my squats sitting back as much as I can.
Does this mean my glutes are not being worked out? I definitely feel it in my quads and hams on each rep, but don't feel shit on my glutes.
If youre sitting back and not getting the glutes engaged, youre probably over arching the low back, putting more stress on the hams and less on the glutes. Video of your squat would be the easiest way to tell.
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Get yourself over to New Zealand.
Original Link: http://bretcontreras.com/2011/07/21st-century-glute-training-workshop/
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I like doing bodyweight, bouncy-type squats before training, get warmed up, get the stretch reflex going, also a little bit of a pump if you do enough reps.
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Wait a minute, the thing about this is, not only are my glutes not getting sore, but I don't feel it in my glutes at all during my squats or trap bar dead lifts or conventional dead lifts lol. And I am doing the DL's in a lower body dominant way, using my hips, etc..
Also adarq, I try to do my squats sitting back as much as I can.
Does this mean my glutes are not being worked out? I definitely feel it in my quads and hams on each rep, but don't feel shit on my glutes.
If youre sitting back and not getting the glutes engaged, youre probably over arching the low back, putting more stress on the hams and less on the glutes. Video of your squat would be the easiest way to tell.
If someone has an exaggerated lordodic curve could this be a recurring problem, engaging the glutes I mean? I've always had trouble activating the glutes on all the big lifts like old mate above and have a bit of an exaggerated curve happening. I remember after squatting for about 6 months I got accidentally hit a groove on one rep where my glutes really fired. Surprised the hell out of me!
Tried all the stretching etc but can't seem to get rid of it. I only get really good glute input when my torso is bolt upright, which it can't be in squats cause I have looong femurs. Pretty frustrating. I end up turning to hip thrusts etc to feel the glutes work but this is a band aid fix.
Sorry 4 the hijack.
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Wait a minute, the thing about this is, not only are my glutes not getting sore, but I don't feel it in my glutes at all during my squats or trap bar dead lifts or conventional dead lifts lol. And I am doing the DL's in a lower body dominant way, using my hips, etc..
Also adarq, I try to do my squats sitting back as much as I can.
Does this mean my glutes are not being worked out? I definitely feel it in my quads and hams on each rep, but don't feel shit on my glutes.
If youre sitting back and not getting the glutes engaged, youre probably over arching the low back, putting more stress on the hams and less on the glutes. Video of your squat would be the easiest way to tell.
If someone has an exaggerated lordodic curve could this be a recurring problem, engaging the glutes I mean? I've always had trouble activating the glutes on all the big lifts like old mate above and have a bit of an exaggerated curve happening. I remember after squatting for about 6 months I got accidentally hit a groove on one rep where my glutes really fired. Surprised the hell out of me!
Tried all the stretching etc but can't seem to get rid of it. I only get really good glute input when my torso is bolt upright, which it can't be in squats cause I have looong femurs. Pretty frustrating. I end up turning to hip thrusts etc to feel the glutes work but this is a band aid fix.
Sorry 4 the hijack.
yea that groove you hit was just likely closer to "neutral", and put the pelvis in a more optimal position for the glutes to fire.
One thing ive found that helps people in your situation is to actually contract the abdominals isometrically, but not allow the trunk to flex. It sounds strange but if you try it you can understand the position better. The contraction will keep an already exaggerated curve from being as big of a factor, and help you attain a slightly less "bowed" position in your lifts. This is one of the reasons its easier for most people to feel the glutes working during exercises like zercher squats vs traditional.
one thing that really helps is to use pauses at different spots in the lifts, for example pause briefly and hold at the bottom of the squat until you "feel" the glutes firing hard. Practice keeping the abdominals "tensed" without allowing the spine to flex and see if that doesnt solve your issue.
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Wait a minute, the thing about this is, not only are my glutes not getting sore, but I don't feel it in my glutes at all during my squats or trap bar dead lifts or conventional dead lifts lol. And I am doing the DL's in a lower body dominant way, using my hips, etc..
Also adarq, I try to do my squats sitting back as much as I can.
Does this mean my glutes are not being worked out? I definitely feel it in my quads and hams on each rep, but don't feel shit on my glutes.
If youre sitting back and not getting the glutes engaged, youre probably over arching the low back, putting more stress on the hams and less on the glutes. Video of your squat would be the easiest way to tell.
If someone has an exaggerated lordodic curve could this be a recurring problem, engaging the glutes I mean? I've always had trouble activating the glutes on all the big lifts like old mate above and have a bit of an exaggerated curve happening. I remember after squatting for about 6 months I got accidentally hit a groove on one rep where my glutes really fired. Surprised the hell out of me!
Tried all the stretching etc but can't seem to get rid of it. I only get really good glute input when my torso is bolt upright, which it can't be in squats cause I have looong femurs. Pretty frustrating. I end up turning to hip thrusts etc to feel the glutes work but this is a band aid fix.
Sorry 4 the hijack.
yea that groove you hit was just likely closer to "neutral", and put the pelvis in a more optimal position for the glutes to fire.
One thing ive found that helps people in your situation is to actually contract the abdominals isometrically, but not allow the trunk to flex. It sounds strange but if you try it you can understand the position better. The contraction will keep an already exaggerated curve from being as big of a factor, and help you attain a slightly less "bowed" position in your lifts. This is one of the reasons its easier for most people to feel the glutes working during exercises like zercher squats vs traditional.
one thing that really helps is to use pauses at different spots in the lifts, for example pause briefly and hold at the bottom of the squat until you "feel" the glutes firing hard. Practice keeping the abdominals "tensed" without allowing the spine to flex and see if that doesnt solve your issue.
Wonder what happens if he does 1&1/2 squats.
Strangely enough, for me, I had a great glute soreness the first time I did half squats. Interesting.
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Wait a minute, the thing about this is, not only are my glutes not getting sore, but I don't feel it in my glutes at all during my squats or trap bar dead lifts or conventional dead lifts lol. And I am doing the DL's in a lower body dominant way, using my hips, etc..
Also adarq, I try to do my squats sitting back as much as I can.
Does this mean my glutes are not being worked out? I definitely feel it in my quads and hams on each rep, but don't feel shit on my glutes.
If youre sitting back and not getting the glutes engaged, youre probably over arching the low back, putting more stress on the hams and less on the glutes. Video of your squat would be the easiest way to tell.
If someone has an exaggerated lordodic curve could this be a recurring problem, engaging the glutes I mean? I've always had trouble activating the glutes on all the big lifts like old mate above and have a bit of an exaggerated curve happening. I remember after squatting for about 6 months I got accidentally hit a groove on one rep where my glutes really fired. Surprised the hell out of me!
Tried all the stretching etc but can't seem to get rid of it. I only get really good glute input when my torso is bolt upright, which it can't be in squats cause I have looong femurs. Pretty frustrating. I end up turning to hip thrusts etc to feel the glutes work but this is a band aid fix.
Sorry 4 the hijack.
yea that groove you hit was just likely closer to "neutral", and put the pelvis in a more optimal position for the glutes to fire.
One thing ive found that helps people in your situation is to actually contract the abdominals isometrically, but not allow the trunk to flex. It sounds strange but if you try it you can understand the position better. The contraction will keep an already exaggerated curve from being as big of a factor, and help you attain a slightly less "bowed" position in your lifts. This is one of the reasons its easier for most people to feel the glutes working during exercises like zercher squats vs traditional.
one thing that really helps is to use pauses at different spots in the lifts, for example pause briefly and hold at the bottom of the squat until you "feel" the glutes firing hard. Practice keeping the abdominals "tensed" without allowing the spine to flex and see if that doesnt solve your issue.
Wonder what happens if he does 1&1/2 squats.
Strangely enough, for me, I had a great glute soreness the first time I did half squats. Interesting.
well assuming you break at the hips first during a squat, what is the first half of a squat doing? youre sitting the hips back so youre really putting the glutes into a position to fire assuming you dont just push the knees forward.
If you are talking about your "narrow stance" half squats, what COULD have happened was, the soreness was the glute med area over stretching, which will lead to injury alot of times when people with wider hips attempt to squat too narrow. Draw a wider set of hips, then draw the femurs pointing inward to the ground, once you start squatting down, the stretch on the outer portion of the hips gets higher and higher in a very disadvantageous position to the body.
Im not saying that is what happened, Im just saying that its not un common to see those type of injuries happen from guys trying to squat with a stance too close, especially if they have wider hips.
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Nah, I have narrow hips. Probably a good reason why I jump well off one leg. But doing bilateral jumping I'm usually VERY quad dominant (heck, jumping rope I jump it using the quads and bending the knees and pulling my knees to the chest and all that... well nevermind :uhhhfacepalm:) so it was interesting to feel glute soreness (don't think it was glute med, not sure though, it felt in the entire butt).
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As stated befor you are probably dropping out of neutral into lordosis. Most likely the low abs are giving out as you get lower. Low ab work (non-tripod) coupled with squatting just until you lose glute function (ie they turn off) and coming up should lead to better glute recruitment over time.
Also dont get obsessed about parallel. Only go as low as you can properly. Over time you should be able to get deeper and deeper.
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Also dont get obsessed about parallel. Only go as low as you can properly. Over time you should be able to get deeper and deeper.
Alex, I have never understood why you would recommend that to a guy, especially a beginner, over the internet. I can to a degree understand why in group coaching situations with team sport athletes you might not have the time to coach a full squat to everyone. But this person is trying to learn full squats, because they are a better exercise for a beginner, and needs to be introduced to correct form as long as the weights are light. I doubt that doing it wrong now will make it easier to do it correct later. In the process of doing squats high nothing is learned that helps doing squats low later, since in most cases technical problems are the reason for the inability of reaching good depth with reasonable form.
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Also dont get obsessed about parallel. Only go as low as you can properly. Over time you should be able to get deeper and deeper.
Alex, I have never understood why you would recommend that to a guy, especially a beginner, over the internet. I can to a degree understand why in group coaching situations with team sport athletes you might not have the time to coach a full squat to everyone. But this person is trying to learn full squats, because they are a better exercise for a beginner, and needs to be introduced to correct form as long as the weights are light. I doubt that doing it wrong now will make it easier to do it correct later. In the process of doing squats high nothing is learned that helps doing squats low later, since in most cases technical problems are the reason for the inability of reaching good depth with reasonable form.
Do I still qualify as a beginner if I've been squatting for 5 months now?
The issue with my glutes not being activated during squats confuses me because when I first started squatting 5 months ago, I was half squatting. And in doing so, my glutes were primarily getting worked, while I hardly felt anything in my quads. Something I found weird since I assumed half squatting is mainly quads and the lower u go it's the glutes. Right now, I am comfortably doing parallel squats sitting back, but I only feel it in my quads and hams, no glutes.
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I think THE MOST common thing I personally see in people starting to squat and not be able to get lower is the fact that they either:
a) Not have a wide enough stance
and/or
b) Have their feet oriented forward (which usually goes hand in hand with a narrow stance) instead of orienting them a bit to the outside to allow a better "hip opening" while going down into the squat.
So they need to play with that before they address anything more complicated.
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Also dont get obsessed about parallel. Only go as low as you can properly. Over time you should be able to get deeper and deeper.
Alex, I have never understood why you would recommend that to a guy, especially a beginner, over the internet. I can to a degree understand why in group coaching situations with team sport athletes you might not have the time to coach a full squat to everyone. But this person is trying to learn full squats, because they are a better exercise for a beginner, and needs to be introduced to correct form as long as the weights are light. I doubt that doing it wrong now will make it easier to do it correct later. In the process of doing squats high nothing is learned that helps doing squats low later, since in most cases technical problems are the reason for the inability of reaching good depth with reasonable form.
Do I still qualify as a beginner if I've been squatting for 5 months now?
The issue with my glutes not being activated during squats confuses me because when I first started squatting 5 months ago, I was half squatting. And in doing so, my glutes were primarily getting worked, while I hardly felt anything in my quads. Something I found weird since I assumed half squatting is mainly quads and the lower u go it's the glutes. Right now, I am comfortably doing parallel squats sitting back, but I only feel it in my quads and hams, no glutes.
Yes, you are still a beginner, not because you have only squatted 5 months, but because you are far from the point where you couldn't progress your squat several times per week. You are considered an intermediate if that does not work anymore (provided you do other stuff right, like sleeping, eating, being consistent etc.). Also make no mistake, it is a privilege to still be a beginner and have the opportunity to make such fast progress. So it was not meant in a condescending way at all.
I don't understand your worries about your glutes at all. If you use correct form, all the muscles will fire properly. If you are not, you should change that. Post a video if you are uncertain.
I think THE MOST common thing I personally see in people starting to squat and not be able to get lower is the fact that they either:
a) Not have a wide enough stance
and/or
b) Have their feet oriented forward (which usually goes hand in hand with a narrow stance) instead of orienting them a bit to the outside to allow a better "hip opening" while going down into the squat.
So they need to play with that before they address anything more complicated.
Hits the nail in the head. +1000
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Also dont get obsessed about parallel. Only go as low as you can properly. Over time you should be able to get deeper and deeper.
Alex, I have never understood why you would recommend that to a guy, especially a beginner, over the internet. I can to a degree understand why in group coaching situations with team sport athletes you might not have the time to coach a full squat to everyone. But this person is trying to learn full squats, because they are a better exercise for a beginner, and needs to be introduced to correct form as long as the weights are light. I doubt that doing it wrong now will make it easier to do it correct later. In the process of doing squats high nothing is learned that helps doing squats low later, since in most cases technical problems are the reason for the inability of reaching good depth with reasonable form.
Do I still qualify as a beginner if I've been squatting for 5 months now?
The issue with my glutes not being activated during squats confuses me because when I first started squatting 5 months ago, I was half squatting. And in doing so, my glutes were primarily getting worked, while I hardly felt anything in my quads. Something I found weird since I assumed half squatting is mainly quads and the lower u go it's the glutes. Right now, I am comfortably doing parallel squats sitting back, but I only feel it in my quads and hams, no glutes.
Yes, you are still a beginner, not because you have only squatted 5 months, but because you are far from the point where you couldn't progress your squat several times per week. You are considered an intermediate if that does not work anymore (provided you do other stuff right, like sleeping, eating, being consistent etc.). Also make no mistake, it is a privilege to still be a beginner and have the opportunity to make such fast progress. So it was not meant in a condescending way at all.
I don't understand your worries about your glutes at all. If you use correct form, all the muscles will fire properly. If you are not, you should change that. Post a video if you are uncertain.
I didn't take offense to it, I really was curious, but I guess I am an intermediate then? Because for a while now, I'm no longer at the point where I can add 5 lbs every session or so. Takes me about 3 sessions or like a week and a half to add 5 lbs these days.
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I didn't take offense to it, I really was curious, but I guess I am an intermediate then? Because for a while now, I'm no longer at the point where I can add 5 lbs every session or so. Takes me about 3 sessions or like a week and a half to add 5 lbs these days.
You are not an intermediate. You are doing too many sets, your training frequency is too low and you are not eating to recover optimally.
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I didn't take offense to it, I really was curious, but I guess I am an intermediate then? Because for a while now, I'm no longer at the point where I can add 5 lbs every session or so. Takes me about 3 sessions or like a week and a half to add 5 lbs these days.
You are not an intermediate. You are doing too many sets, your training frequency is too low and you are not eating to recover optimally.
And how do you know what my diet is?
What kind of frequency and number of sets would you suggest?
BTW, incase you didn't know, I'm studying abroad in England right now for a total of 8 weeks, and during this time I only have time to go to the gym for 2 days a week, and I figured that was the best schedule I can utilize at this point (if you did look at my routine in my journal). I know training 2 days a week is not much, but I'm in Europe for a once in a lifetime experience, training is not #1 for me right now. However, I do still believe my 2 day a week schedule is more than good enough to train my weakest link right now, which is my strength
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I didn't take offense to it, I really was curious, but I guess I am an intermediate then? Because for a while now, I'm no longer at the point where I can add 5 lbs every session or so. Takes me about 3 sessions or like a week and a half to add 5 lbs these days.
You are not an intermediate. You are doing too many sets, your training frequency is too low and you are not eating to recover optimally.
And how do you know what my diet is?
What kind of frequency and number of sets would you suggest?
BTW, incase you didn't know, I'm studying abroad in England right now for a total of 8 weeks, and during this time I only have time to go to the gym for 2 days a week, and I figured that was the best schedule I can utilize at this point (if you did look at my routine in my journal). I know training 2 days a week is not much, but I'm in Europe for a once in a lifetime experience, training is not #1 for me right now. However, I do still believe my 2 day a week schedule is more than good enough to train my weakest link right now, which is my strength
No need to justify what you are doing. I read your more recent entries and also realized your situation. Given what you do right now with your studies abroad, going for a bit slower progress is absolutely reasonable and it was not my intent to criticize that at all. But that does not make you an intermediate trainee.
I don't know your exact diet, but I can read from your entries in combination with your bodyweight increase from February to mid June that you eat very little for someone who wants to increase his relative strength and is very light to begin with (you gained 5 lbs in those 4 months).
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I didn't take offense to it, I really was curious, but I guess I am an intermediate then? Because for a while now, I'm no longer at the point where I can add 5 lbs every session or so. Takes me about 3 sessions or like a week and a half to add 5 lbs these days.
You are not an intermediate. You are doing too many sets, your training frequency is too low and you are not eating to recover optimally.
And how do you know what my diet is?
What kind of frequency and number of sets would you suggest?
BTW, incase you didn't know, I'm studying abroad in England right now for a total of 8 weeks, and during this time I only have time to go to the gym for 2 days a week, and I figured that was the best schedule I can utilize at this point (if you did look at my routine in my journal). I know training 2 days a week is not much, but I'm in Europe for a once in a lifetime experience, training is not #1 for me right now. However, I do still believe my 2 day a week schedule is more than good enough to train my weakest link right now, which is my strength
No need to justify what you are doing. I read your more recent entries and also realized your situation. Given what you do right now with your studies abroad, going for a bit slower progress is absolutely reasonable and it was not my intent to criticize that at all. But that does not make you an intermediate trainee.
I don't know your exact diet, but I can read from your entries in combination with your bodyweight increase from February to mid June that you eat very little for someone who wants to increase his relative strength and is very light to begin with (you gained 5 lbs in those 4 months).
I see, maybe I do need to eat more. I wasn't saying I'm an intermediate trainee, I don't even know what makes one intermediate, advanced, beginner. I just thought you said I'm a beginner because my current schedule is has too many sets, and too little frequency or something. I misunderstood.
Anyways, if I were to go on a diet where I ate like crazy and get stronger a lot faster, it's gonna have to wait until Aug 27 when I go back home. I can't afford to eat like that while I'm here. Incase you didn't know, this country is so freakin expensive. It costs me $5.75 just to take 1 bus to the supermarket and back, don't get me started on the food prices.
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Anyways, if I were to go on a diet where I ate like crazy and get stronger a lot faster, it's gonna have to wait until Aug 27 when I go back home. I can't afford to eat like that while I'm here. Incase you didn't know, this country is so freakin expensive. It costs me $5.75 just to take 1 bus to the supermarket and back, don't get me started on the food prices.
No need to gain 22 lbs in a week or something crazy, just eating enough to ensure quicker progress than once a week at this point. You want to slowly get to the point where you carry a reasonable amount of muscle mass for an athlete that wants to function to the best of his abilities. For a basketball player your size this won't be 250 lbs bodyweight, but it will not be 160 lbs either.
I know how expensive the UK is and I also know that food is shitty there anyways, so I can understand the objections ;).
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Anyways, if I were to go on a diet where I ate like crazy and get stronger a lot faster, it's gonna have to wait until Aug 27 when I go back home. I can't afford to eat like that while I'm here. Incase you didn't know, this country is so freakin expensive. It costs me $5.75 just to take 1 bus to the supermarket and back, don't get me started on the food prices.
No need to gain 22 lbs in a week or something crazy, just eating enough to ensure quicker progress than once a week at this point. You want to slowly get to the point where you carry a reasonable amount of muscle mass for an athlete that wants to function to the best of his abilities. For a basketball player your size this won't be 250 lbs bodyweight, but it will not be 160 lbs either.
I know how expensive the UK is and I also know that food is shitty there anyways, so I can understand the objections ;).
Yes I forgot to mention the food is no good too. But thanks for the input. I should try to eat at least a little more, I feel as a basketball player I would be ideal at about 165 lbs.
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Wait a minute, the thing about this is, not only are my glutes not getting sore, but I don't feel it in my glutes at all during my squats or trap bar dead lifts or conventional dead lifts lol. And I am doing the DL's in a lower body dominant way, using my hips, etc..
Also adarq, I try to do my squats sitting back as much as I can.
Does this mean my glutes are not being worked out? I definitely feel it in my quads and hams on each rep, but don't feel shit on my glutes.
If youre sitting back and not getting the glutes engaged, youre probably over arching the low back, putting more stress on the hams and less on the glutes. Video of your squat would be the easiest way to tell.
If someone has an exaggerated lordodic curve could this be a recurring problem, engaging the glutes I mean? I've always had trouble activating the glutes on all the big lifts like old mate above and have a bit of an exaggerated curve happening. I remember after squatting for about 6 months I got accidentally hit a groove on one rep where my glutes really fired. Surprised the hell out of me!
Tried all the stretching etc but can't seem to get rid of it. I only get really good glute input when my torso is bolt upright, which it can't be in squats cause I have looong femurs. Pretty frustrating. I end up turning to hip thrusts etc to feel the glutes work but this is a band aid fix.
Sorry 4 the hijack.
yea that groove you hit was just likely closer to "neutral", and put the pelvis in a more optimal position for the glutes to fire.
One thing ive found that helps people in your situation is to actually contract the abdominals isometrically, but not allow the trunk to flex. It sounds strange but if you try it you can understand the position better. The contraction will keep an already exaggerated curve from being as big of a factor, and help you attain a slightly less "bowed" position in your lifts. This is one of the reasons its easier for most people to feel the glutes working during exercises like zercher squats vs traditional.
one thing that really helps is to use pauses at different spots in the lifts, for example pause briefly and hold at the bottom of the squat until you "feel" the glutes firing hard. Practice keeping the abdominals "tensed" without allowing the spine to flex and see if that doesnt solve your issue.
Thanks! I do understand the concept there. I'll brace the core without trying to pin my shoulders back and see how I get on. I'll also try to iso hold on warm up sets and see if that trains my ass to fire better.
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Also dont get obsessed about parallel. Only go as low as you can properly. Over time you should be able to get deeper and deeper.
Alex, I have never understood why you would recommend that to a guy, especially a beginner, over the internet. I can to a degree understand why in group coaching situations with team sport athletes you might not have the time to coach a full squat to everyone. But this person is trying to learn full squats, because they are a better exercise for a beginner, and needs to be introduced to correct form as long as the weights are light. I doubt that doing it wrong now will make it easier to do it correct later. In the process of doing squats high nothing is learned that helps doing squats low later, since in most cases technical problems are the reason for the inability of reaching good depth with reasonable form.
if he can only squat to 70 degrees without going into lumbar flexion or hyperextension then going any lower will only make teaching him to squat properly even more harder and longer
if he does either of these when he squats then all he's doing going to parallel (if he can't do it properly) is reinforcing bad technique, motor patterns and muscle activation sequencing
experienced or beginner, its better to do something right over a short of motion then wrong over a long range of motion
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if he can only squat to 70 degrees without going into lumbar flexion or hyperextension then going any lower will only make teaching him to squat properly even more harder and longer
if he does either of these when he squats then all he's doing going to parallel (if he can't do it properly) is reinforcing bad technique, motor patterns and muscle activation sequencing
experienced or beginner, its better to do something right over a short of motion then wrong over a long range of motion
What I said was that with proper technique nearly everybody can squat below parallel correctly. I have nowhere said that anyone should do anything wrong.
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Also dont get obsessed about parallel. Only go as low as you can properly. Over time you should be able to get deeper and deeper.
Alex, I have never understood why you would recommend that to a guy, especially a beginner, over the internet. I can to a degree understand why in group coaching situations with team sport athletes you might not have the time to coach a full squat to everyone. But this person is trying to learn full squats, because they are a better exercise for a beginner, and needs to be introduced to correct form as long as the weights are light. I doubt that doing it wrong now will make it easier to do it correct later. In the process of doing squats high nothing is learned that helps doing squats low later, since in most cases technical problems are the reason for the inability of reaching good depth with reasonable form.
If he is spilling into his low back, quads , and hamstrings then he is not squatting correctly (if performance is your goal, squatting for OLY or PL is different). He needs to be getting to his glutes. Depth has nothing to do with this, proper movement does. So why not move properly. The OP said he no longer gets his glutes going in squats and loads his erector spinae and hams during DL's, thus It seems safe to conclude he is losing position or form.
I recently saw a few McGill presentations in person and he echoed the same points. Going to parallel for parallel's sake in the face of bad technique (not getting to the glutes) will lead to injury. He also asked people "Why do you need to get to parallel?" Everyone said the sme thing "P-chain..." His response was that if that is the reasn you have never seen a properly conducted EMG study or have a very poor understanding of functional anatomy. I sat there and wondered how many heads his presentation was fling over at that moment.
So in summary only do what you can do with perfect form and over time proper strength development may open up new ROM's
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Also dont get obsessed about parallel. Only go as low as you can properly. Over time you should be able to get deeper and deeper.
Alex, I have never understood why you would recommend that to a guy, especially a beginner, over the internet. I can to a degree understand why in group coaching situations with team sport athletes you might not have the time to coach a full squat to everyone. But this person is trying to learn full squats, because they are a better exercise for a beginner, and needs to be introduced to correct form as long as the weights are light. I doubt that doing it wrong now will make it easier to do it correct later. In the process of doing squats high nothing is learned that helps doing squats low later, since in most cases technical problems are the reason for the inability of reaching good depth with reasonable form.
If he is spilling into his low back, quads , and hamstrings then he is not squatting correctly (if performance is your goal, squatting for OLY or PL is different). He needs to be getting to his glutes. Depth has nothing to do with this, proper movement does. So why not move properly. The OP said he no longer gets his glutes going in squats and loads his erector spinae and hams during DL's, thus It seems safe to conclude he is losing position or form.
I recently saw a few McGill presentations in person and he echoed the same points. Going to parallel for parallel's sake in the face of bad technique (not getting to the glutes) will lead to injury. He also asked people "Why do you need to get to parallel?" Everyone said the sme thing "P-chain..." His response was that if that is the reasn you have never seen a properly conducted EMG study or have a very poor understanding of functional anatomy. I sat there and wondered how many heads his presentation was fling over at that moment.
So in summary only do what you can do with perfect form and over time proper strength development may open up new ROM's
I really would like my squatting to get to my glutes. I'm not doing parallel for doing parallel's sake. I like the depth and am comfortable with it. Like I mentioned, my glutes were the main muscles firing when I first started squatting (half squats). Can you tell me what you MIGHT think is the issue with my technique that can potentially be the reason why my glutes are not firing? Like what are the possibilities, so I can see which one might be the case.
Thanks.
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If he is spilling into his low back, quads , and hamstrings then he is not squatting correctly (if performance is your goal, squatting for OLY or PL is different). He needs to be getting to his glutes. Depth has nothing to do with this, proper movement does. So why not move properly. The OP said he no longer gets his glutes going in squats and loads his erector spinae and hams during DL's, thus It seems safe to conclude he is losing position or form.
I agree and proper movement can be observed with your eyes and COACHED with the help of words so that the person squatting corrects his technique and hence performs the exercise in the proper way afterwards. Please tell me where squatting high is involved in this.
I recently saw a few McGill presentations in person and he echoed the same points. Going to parallel for parallel's sake in the face of bad technique (not getting to the glutes) will lead to injury. He also asked people "Why do you need to get to parallel?" Everyone said the sme thing "P-chain..." His response was that if that is the reasn you have never seen a properly conducted EMG study or have a very poor understanding of functional anatomy. I sat there and wondered how many heads his presentation was fling over at that moment.
So in summary only do what you can do with perfect form and over time proper strength development may open up new ROM's
Again, I never said anywhere that anyone should use bad form. What I say is that GOOD form can be coached to nearly everyone in 1-2 sessions and that this should be done instead of recommending high squats when full squats are the goal.
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Just like you never said to squat with bad form I never said to "never squat to parallel". All I was saying was a couple key points
1. Based on his Squat and DL remarks it sounds as if he is losing neutral spine (aka bad form)
2. He should only squat as low as he can while maintaining neutral (perfect form) regardless of depth.
If he is loading his ES and hams then he is probably in lordosis/anterior tilt. Low ab strengthening should help along with going as low as possible while using perfect technique. If you recall I also said that OVER TIME he should be able to get deeper and deeper.
He shouldn;t get to parallel just to get to parallel, he should get there while getting the right muscles to fire while doing the right job
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How do you strengthen the low abs? Are they being stimulated with ab wheel rollouts?
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If you recall I also said that OVER TIME he should be able to get deeper and deeper.
Yes, that is what I disagree with. I propose that he can go below parallel with proper form in one session if he was coached into it. Many people have also been able to figure proper form out themselves in a few sessions once they knew what the problem was. I disagree with the idea that "going as low as possible with proper form" solves the actual issues. If his stance is shit and that is the reason why he cannot go below parallel without doing stuff with his lower back then this will still be the case in the future regardless of what he does in the meantime because no one is telling him to adjust his stance the way it needs to be. Same thing with other possible issues.
Edit: Also, telling him not to over-arch would be a useful cue. But we still don't know what actually happens because we have not seen his squat, have we?
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How do you strengthen the low abs? Are they being stimulated with ab wheel rollouts?
YES< IF you pull in with the knees if youre doing them kneeling, or pull with the feet if youre doing them standing. most people dont do this and they miss out on some awesome low ab /hf work.
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How do you strengthen the low abs? Are they being stimulated with ab wheel rollouts?
YES< IF you pull in with the knees if youre doing them kneeling, or pull with the feet if youre doing them standing. most people dont do this and they miss out on some awesome low ab /hf work.
That's exactly what I'm doing. Not only they help with the abs but also the hip flexors strength which I need for a powerful knee drive in my one leg jumps.
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How do you strengthen the low abs? Are they being stimulated with ab wheel rollouts?
YES< IF you pull in with the knees if youre doing them kneeling, or pull with the feet if youre doing them standing. most people dont do this and they miss out on some awesome low ab /hf work.
That's exactly what I'm doing. Not only they help with the abs but also the hip flexors strength which I need for a powerful knee drive in my one leg jumps.
what did u think that /hf stood for?
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Hip Flexor. I wanted to emphasize that thing with the hip flexors because really, most people don't even know it's possible to train them well with the ab wheel.
In what variant do you think the hip flexors get better stimulation: the standing ab wheel rollout or the kneeling one?
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Definitely "feel" it more standing and focusing on kicking into floor as hard as possible, but idk, they go through a good rom in the kneeling version, and since its easier you may actually be able to use more hf/low ab to dominate the movement. I still think standing roll outs using the wall as a spotter to turn you around as far out as you can go, while focusing on driving the feet into the floor is the king of core movements for athletes.
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I watched a video of a guy who progressed into standing and even decline ab wheel rollouts and he recommended against the "wall" thing. Instead, he said you need to do your standing ab wheel rollouts in the beginning on an incline surface or on certain incline benches in the gym.
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I watched a video of a guy who progressed into standing and even decline ab wheel rollouts and he recommended against the "wall" thing. Instead, he said you need to do your standing ab wheel rollouts in the beginning on an incline surface or on certain incline benches in the gym.
I watched a video of air up there recommending against lower body strength training. Instead he said to stretch the lower body and do abdominal exercises. Must be true cuz he can dunk really well.
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I watched a video of a guy who progressed into standing and even decline ab wheel rollouts and he recommended against the "wall" thing. Instead, he said you need to do your standing ab wheel rollouts in the beginning on an incline surface or on certain incline benches in the gym.
I watched a video of air up there recommending against lower body strength training. Instead he said to stretch the lower body and do abdominal exercises. Must be true cuz he can dunk really well.
Yeah but this guy progressed towards that ab wheel rollout prowess.
BRB, training c0r3.
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havent read through the whole thread but, usually on a squat day i do glute activation exercises in the warm up. one time i forgot to do them went to squat and my hip flexors were on fire. i then rememered i hadnt done them so i spent 5minutes doing some glute brides etc and squatted twice as easily which i found interesting!
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Interesting ^^^
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BTW guys, I'm the OP and it seems like I just needed some straight up glute exercises to reactivate them or something?
I did BSS on Saturday which got my glutes sore. All of a sudden I started feeling it in my glutes during my dead lifts today, AND a LITTLE bit on my squats lol. Like 4 of the 20 total reps I felt it. I'll keep BSS as a supplementary exercise to keep my glutes active.
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BTW guys, I'm the OP and it seems like I just needed some straight up glute exercises to reactivate them or something?
I did BSS on Saturday which got my glutes sore. All of a sudden I started feeling it in my glutes during my dead lifts today, AND a LITTLE bit on my squats lol. Like 4 of the 20 total reps I felt it. I'll keep BSS as a supplementary exercise to keep my glutes active.
Thank you sir.
I'd personally go even further and make the BSS as the MAIN lift in one of my days. I just love it too much right now.
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BTW guys, I'm the OP and it seems like I just needed some straight up glute exercises to reactivate them or something?
I did BSS on Saturday which got my glutes sore. All of a sudden I started feeling it in my glutes during my dead lifts today, AND a LITTLE bit on my squats lol. Like 4 of the 20 total reps I felt it. I'll keep BSS as a supplementary exercise to keep my glutes active.
Thank you sir.
I'd personally go even further and make the BSS as the MAIN lift in one of my days. I just love it too much right now.
I don't love it THAT much
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Haha, I know, what I love with BSS is that I can overload the legs without necessarily overloading my back. I can also play with stance length to get different recruitment levels.
Think about it - doing BSS with 40 kg dumbbells (80 kg in total) is like doing bilateral squats with 160 kg in terms of leg stimulation. Now I realize it's more to that than just weight but still, it's just a great thing to do.
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Haha, I know, what I love with BSS is that I can overload the legs without necessarily overloading my back. I can also play with stance length to get different recruitment levels.
Think about it - doing BSS with 40 kg dumbbells (80 kg in total) is like doing bilateral squats with 160 kg in terms of leg stimulation. Now I realize it's more to that than just weight but still, it's just a great thing to do.
The back leg side still contributes significantly in the BSS AFAIK.
Might want to check out the EMG study mentioned here though:
http://billhartman.net/blog/2010/02/14/two-leg-squats-vs-modified-single-leg-squats/
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Haha, I know, what I love with BSS is that I can overload the legs without necessarily overloading my back. I can also play with stance length to get different recruitment levels.
Think about it - doing BSS with 40 kg dumbbells (80 kg in total) is like doing bilateral squats with 160 kg in terms of leg stimulation. Now I realize it's more to that than just weight but still, it's just a great thing to do.
The back leg side still contributes significantly in the BSS AFAIK.
Might want to check out the EMG study mentioned here though:
http://billhartman.net/blog/2010/02/14/two-leg-squats-vs-modified-single-leg-squats/
Yeah it does, just by putting your leg out there you're taking out some of the weight off the working leg.