Adarq.org
Performance Area => Strength, Power, Reactivity, & Speed Discussion => Topic started by: lamp on February 24, 2011, 11:17:11 pm
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One thing thats often said is it is a lot easier to jump high when you have high cut calves.
I have found generally this is true....BUT
I first noticed this when I was watching a stefan holmes (high jumper) hurdle vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZG3_I3zFB0U
Watch this video twice-- the first time to see how awesome he is and how easy he makes head-height hurdles look.
The second time skip to 23sec-32sec where you can clearly see his lower limb structure.
His calves are clearly not low cut-- his achilles is not very long at all. especially at 31 sec they look frankly low-cut :o
how could this be? He is one of the best high jumpers (at least was) and successful on an elite level yet structurally he doesn't appear built for it.
This piqued my curiosity so I looked at the structure of other elite high jumpers:
(http://s.v3.tvp.pl/images/c/6/9/uid_c69ef6103a2e0ce91e0efc96a2a12bca1250886319539_width_700_play_0_pos_3_gs_0.jpg)
(http://cache4.asset-cache.net/xc/89991934.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=77BFBA49EF878921CC759DF4EBAC47D04899279CACE8DBD0BA75FE189BEE7B12FC21E8E5ECCA1BD1E30A760B0D811297)
(http://www.globerunner.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/ukhov_ivan.jpg)
In fact the only elite high jumper who I found had high-calves was the bahamanian donald thomas (who also was the only high jumper not of european descent)
(http://i.pbase.com/o6/82/592282/1/93027741.ajmlKzJQ._MG_5667.jpg)
i just thought it was interesting that these athletes who excel in jumping especially from a reactive point of view (their rvjs are much higher than their cmvjs) do not have high-cut calves
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interesting! gives me hope lol. i feel like most people that are 2 foot jumpers and jump ridic high are the ones that have high calves... vince carter, jus fly, etc
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Nightfly has similar calves to these guys ^^^ and jumps over 40 off one leg. Maybe a shorter tendon might be thicker and get stiff easier? At the same time, a longer, bigger calf muscle has a chance of getting even bigger than a shorter muscle (more hypertrophy potential).
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Nightfly has similar calves to these guys ^^^ and jumps over 40 off one leg. Maybe a shorter tendon might be thicker and get stiff easier? At the same time, a longer, bigger calf muscle has a chance of getting even bigger than a shorter muscle (more hypertrophy potential).
Yeah but hypertrophy isn't really the key here. Those dudes' calves aren't really THAT big.
I'm with dreyth, that shit gives me and my low-cut calves hope of actually being springy one day.
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Well yeah, that's why I said "at the same time", because I made another point before the calf size potential point, that being "Maybe a shorter tendon might be thicker and get stiff easier"
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Nightfly has similar calves to these guys ^^^ and jumps over 40 off one leg. Maybe a shorter tendon might be thicker and get stiff easier? At the same time, a longer, bigger calf muscle has a chance of getting even bigger than a shorter muscle (more hypertrophy potential).
the thicker part was what I was thinking too.
shorter tendon=thicker and stiffer tendon perhaps...
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um, what about no calves??
justin darlington:
(http://www.dunkingandjumping.com/images/justin%20darlington.jpg)
Now I feel like a longer flatter calf or something can stretch and rebound better and is better suited for jumping.
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I wonder if calf length and tendon length affects ankle ROM.
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Bret Contreras just posted a whole series of practical applications of recent studies. This was one of them:
Interpretation of previous work showing long compliant tendons were better suited for jumping should take into account that during the quick jump situations often observed in sport that tendon length may actually diminish rather than enhance performance, and thus decrease the importance of AT-length for talent identification. Optimal muscle architecture appears to be dependent on both the eccentric load and the phase of jump. While both strength and plyometric training have been shown to increase FL only heavy strength training has been shown to increase P. Thus when a high eccentric load or multiple jumps are required for sport heavy strength training should be used to allow for early force production during jumping.
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From strictly a structural perspective there is no advantage to having high cut calves. In fact I could make a pretty strong argument (and an observable one) that low cut calves give an advantage during initial acceleration and certain types of jumps if other key ingredients are in place...more potential force and force absorption. ** However, it's not all about that one body-part. Pay attention and observe people - high cut calves correlate with other positive athletic qualities such as narrow hips, longer legs, better nervous system, more fast twitch muscle, broaders shoudlers and lower body-fat...typical pit bull build. Those things all combine to make better athletes.
Plus it's an innate west african characteristic and for that reason alone will tend to correlate with athletic success.
Low cut calves correlate with whiteness. wider hips, shorter legs, bottom heavy lower body (quad vs glute dominance), slower nervous system, heavy build, etc.
So it's all the other things accompanying low cut calves that make them disadvantageous IMO. Doesn't mean you can't become an explosive athlete because of that one quality.
Take a look at samoans for example - a group that usually combines naturally low cut calves with other postivie physiological athletic qualities...you're not gonna have a difficult time finding explosively athletic samoans.
**One of the things I've observed is noticeable in that clip of Holme above - the landing is extremely smooth and quiet like a feather hitting a pillow. The foot deforms a bit more than a typical "high cut" calf person, but you can see more initial acceleration off of footstrike. Holm also has extremely long femurs and very narrow hips which you won't often find on someone with that type of lower leg build.
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Could narrow hips be detrimental to a standing VJ? I'm thinking you can bend less with narrow hips until you need to compensate by bending forward and all that. So I think it's both detrimental to squatting and standing vertical jumping (less ROM to apply force).
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Perhaps only because people with narrow hips aren't always very strong and having wide hips isn't nearly as detrimental for SVJ as it is for speed. I'm just speaking generally - narrower relative hip structure is a good trait for athleticism. I think for strictly vert purposes (bilateral or unilateral), relative femur length trumps most other stuff wrt to structure.
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Kelly's idea makes the most sense to me
I've always been told that reactive people have High cut calves, narrow joints, and long legs.
Most sprinters have high cut calves, probably due to the reason kelly said. They have a better build overall usually. But I know that I have decently high calves, and I've always felt a tendency to being reactive.
(http://lazarusdodge.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/tyson-gay.jpg)
(http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42068000/jpg/_42068876_powell416.jpg)
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/07/24/article-0-05D599E9000005DC-968_468x316.jpg)
Usain Bolt is said to be one of the MOST reactive people ever...He has high cut calves
High jumpers only have to do one jump during their event....sprinters have a longer time of effort....there might be something in that
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here is one sub 10 second 100m runner that has low cut claves
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Uk9D4K89244/TFFtSsr-ZCI/AAAAAAAAACg/vWg9Yg4y44E/s1600/Christophe-Lemaitre-006.jpg)
In the attachmets, the pic shows 3 guys with low cut calves, both decently muscular..with one guy who is very skinny, with high cut calves
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Usain's calves look really weird. Under his calf you can see there's another lump... that's a big soleus alright.
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Usain's calves look really weird. Under his calf you can see there's another lump... that's a big soleus alright.
(http://speedendurance.speedenduranceco.netdna-cdn.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/usain-bolt-sideview-200-meters-blocks.JPG)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_2k8wcKbr1VU/StIH7ZarACI/AAAAAAAAAFM/TLhwHWzOlz8/s320/oly_g_bolt3_sq_300.jpg)
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A tendon can absorb forces like a rubber band, and then return that energy (due to collagen)
What rubber band is going to give you more force when you stretch it, a long one or a short one?
That is why a longer tendon is superior to a shorter one. At least that is my view on it.
Just because it is a passive structure does not mean it can help a lot in a vertical jump!
I think that if you can compensate a bit with your muscles for the elastisity you lose by having strong calf muscles, however, then you are using an active structure instead of a passive one.
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What if you have a longer but more compliant tendon vs a shorter but stiffer tendon?
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What if you have a longer but more compliant tendon vs a shorter but stiffer tendon?
Don't matter, you still need strong thighs to have a high vert/sprint. Which is a bigger muscle? Glutes,hamstrings,quads..or just calves?
Why worry about what type you have. You can strengthen your leggs and achieve a high vertical still. As one can see from the pics, both types have had some success at vert and sprinting(or whatever explosive thing you do)
(http://www.marunde-muscle.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1154&stc=1)
(http://www.everybodysucksbutus.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/cool_olympic_shoes_01.jpg)
(http://www.crossfitoakland.com/old_site/dimas.jpg)
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_jKrQrrAH3Xg/S8ZEUcSRaGI/AAAAAAAAAlg/_A4vq36J_LE/s1600/Stoistov+BUL+77M.jpg)
(http://www.kettlebellblogger.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/o-lifting.jpg)
I don't see many high cut calves do olympic lifting tho...but low cut calves usually give a build for strength lifiting i think
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Oh yeah, I know, I don't worry about that or anything, it's just nice to know and decipher the intricasies of human structure and all that.
Some coaches use high cut calves as signs of possible track stars so... it has a possible practical application/effect.
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Oh yeah, I know, I don't worry about that or anything, it's just nice to know and decipher the intricasies of human structure and all that.
Some coaches use high cut calves as signs of possible track stars so... it has a possible practical application/effect.
I think those coaches are dumb. I have a coach like that, let's just say he is not a brain surgeon and leave it at that.
Anyone can become faster, more explosive, and stronger if they train right. Most people are not genetically good enough to be
olympic lifters or olympic sprinters..but many people can come alot closer than those type of coaches think.
I'm not a coach, I just have my own ideas about training and stuff
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High calves are gonna help with top speed and endurance running moreso than they will vert and early acceleration IMO. The tendons help save energy and spare muscular effort at a given work rate moreso than they contribute to positive concentric force. A good example of this is the difference between Kenyan runners and everyone else. They don't go faster, they just go forever without trying.
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High calves are gonna help with top speed and endurance running moreso than they will vert and early acceleration IMO. The tendons help save energy and spare muscular effort at a given work rate moreso than they contribute to positive concentric force. A good example of this is the difference between Kenyan runners and everyone else. They don't go faster, they just go forever without trying.
They cannot help with concentric force at all since they don't have sarcomeres.
I agree that they cannot help with acceleration, but why not with a vertical jump? And by that i especially mean a running vertical jump. Why would a running vertical jump be a purely concentric, voluntary movement? Imo tendons absorb the force and return it, just like an elastic. And the longer the elastic, the more force it can produce.
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High calves are gonna help with top speed and endurance running moreso than they will vert and early acceleration IMO. The tendons help save energy and spare muscular effort at a given work rate moreso than they contribute to positive concentric force. A good example of this is the difference between Kenyan runners and everyone else. They don't go faster, they just go forever without trying.
this would explain it perfectly...the high jump and olympic lifts are just one quick movement...so it does not really matter which one the person would have
yet the sprinters need to do mulitple efforts, so the high cut calves would help...not saying that they are the only ones that can be sprinters
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High calves are gonna help with top speed and endurance running moreso than they will vert and early acceleration IMO. The tendons help save energy and spare muscular effort at a given work rate moreso than they contribute to positive concentric force. A good example of this is the difference between Kenyan runners and everyone else. They don't go faster, they just go forever without trying.
They cannot help with concentric force at all since they don't have sarcomeres.
I agree that they cannot help with acceleration, but why not with a vertical jump? And by that i especially mean a running vertical jump. Why would a running vertical jump be a purely concentric, voluntary movement? Imo tendons absorb the force and return it, just like an elastic. And the longer the elastic, the more force it can produce.
The general them of more current research is the role of pure tendon contribution to plyometric movements has been overstated in years past. If that weren't the case you wouldn't see the things talked about in page 1 of this thread.
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High calves are gonna help with top speed and endurance running moreso than they will vert and early acceleration IMO. The tendons help save energy and spare muscular effort at a given work rate moreso than they contribute to positive concentric force. A good example of this is the difference between Kenyan runners and everyone else. They don't go faster, they just go forever without trying.
They cannot help with concentric force at all since they don't have sarcomeres.
I agree that they cannot help with acceleration, but why not with a vertical jump? And by that i especially mean a running vertical jump. Why would a running vertical jump be a purely concentric, voluntary movement? Imo tendons absorb the force and return it, just like an elastic. And the longer the elastic, the more force it can produce.
The general them of more current research is the role of pure tendon contribution to plyometric movements has been overstated in years past. If that weren't the case you wouldn't see the things talked about in page 1 of this thread.
ok that's very interesting, any links on that research? Thanks for the explenation
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Yeah here are a few relevant to the topic:
Why is countermovement jump height greater than squat jump height?
Bobbert MF, Gerritsen KG, Litjens MC, Van Soest AJ.
Institute for Fundamental and Clinical Movement Sciences, Amsterdam, The Netherlands. M_F_Bobbert@fbw.vu.nl
Abstract
In the literature, it is well established that subjects are able to jump higher in a countermovement jump (CMJ) than in a squat jump (SJ). The purpose of this study was to estimate the relative contribution of the time available for force development and the storage and reutilization of elastic energy to the enhancement of performance in CMJ compared with SJ. Six male volleyball players performed CMJ and SJ. Kinematics, kinetics, and muscle electrical activity (EMG) from six muscles of the lower extremity were monitored. It was found that even when the body position at the start of push-off was the same in SJ as in CMJ, jump height was on average 3.4 cm greater in CMJ. The possibility that nonoptimal coordination in SJ explained the difference in jump height was ruled out: there were no signs of movement disintegration in SJ, and toe-off position was the same in SJ as in CMJ. The greater jump height in CMJ was attributed to the fact that the countermovement allowed the subjects to attain greater joint moments at the start of push-off. As a consequence, joint moments were greater over the first part of the range of joint extension in CMJ, so that more work could be produced than in SJ. To explain this finding, measured and manipulated kinematics and electromyographic activity were used as input for a model of the musculoskeletal system. According to simulation results, storage and reutilization of elastic energy could be ruled out as explanation for the enhancement of performance in CMJ over that in SJ. The crucial contribution of the countermovement seemed to be that it allowed the muscles to build up a high level of active state (fraction of attached cross-bridges) and force before the start of shortening, so that they were able to produce more work over the first part of their shortening distance
Strength Cond Res. 2010 Mar;24(3):722-9.
Lower-body muscle structure and its role in jump performance during squat, countermovement, and depth drop jumps.
Earp JE, Joseph M, Kraemer WJ, Newton RU, Comstock BA, Fragala MS, Dunn-Lewis C, Solomon-Hill G, Penwell ZR, Powell MD, Volek JS, Denegar CR, Häkkinen K, Maresh CM.
Human Performance Laboratory, Department of Kinesiology, University of Connecticut, Storrs, Connecticut, USA.
Erratum in:
J Strength Cond Res. 2010 Jun;24(6):1705. Joseph, M [added].
Abstract
The purpose of this study was to examine the relationship between lower-body muscle structure and vertical jump performance. Twenty-five resistance-trained men (age, 23.3 +/- 3.2 years; height, 176.1 +/- 7.4 cm; and weight, 86.2 +/- 11.6 kg) took part in both anatomical and jump performance testing. Muscle fascicle thickness, fascicle length, and pennation angle were analyzed for the vastus lateralis (VL) and the lateral gastrocnemius (LG). Jump height and both relative and absolute power were measured for the squat jump (SJ), countermovement jump (CMJ), and depth drop jump (DDJ). Regressions were used to determine if jump performance could be predicted using the aforementioned structures. No VL measurements were significantly correlated with any of the jump measures. Lateral gastrocnemius pennation angle was a significant but weak predictor of jump height for all 3 jump types (SJ: r2 = 0.212, p = 0.021; CMJ: r2 = 0.186, p = 0.018; DDJ: r2 = 0.263, p = 0.005). When comparing jump height at increasing preloads, none of the variables of interest could significantly predict the jump height differences between CMJ and SJ. However, LG fascicle length had a weak but significant inverse relationship with DDJ-CMJ (r2 = 0.152; p = 0.031). Lateral gastrocnemius thickness was the strongest predictor of absolute power for all jump types and between jump types (SJ: r2 = 0.181, p = 0.034; CMJ: r2 = 0.201, p = 0.014; DDJ: r2 = 0.122, p = 0.049; CMJ-SJ: r2 = 0.201, p = 0.014; DDJ-CMJ: r2 = 0.146, p = 0.034). Lateral gastrocnemius pennation angle was also the best predictor of relative power for all 3 jump types and between jump types (SJ: r2 = 0.172, p = 0.038; CMJ: r2 = 0.416, p = 0.000; DDJ: r2 = 0.167, p = 0.024; CMJ-SJ: r2 = 0.391, p = 0.000; DDJ-CMJ: r2 = 0.136, p = 0.039). Results for jump performance differ from those previously found for sprinting in that greater pennation and shorter fascicles, positively predicting jumping ability at increased prestretch loads reinforcing the need for training specificity. Our findings in resistance-trained men indicate that where jumping is vital to athletic success one can benefit from developing LG muscle architecture along with addressing eccentric strength.
Mechanical and muscular factors influencing the performance in maximal vertical jumping after different prestretch loads.
Voigt M, Simonsen EB, Dyhre-Poulsen P, Klausen K.
Department of Medical Anatomy, Panum Institute, University of Copenhagen, Denmark.
Abstract
The objective of the present work was to study the interaction between the tendon elasticity, the muscle activation-loading dynamics, specific actions of the biarticular muscles, preloading and jumping performance during maximal vertical jumping. Six male expert jumpers participated in the study. They performed maximal vertical jumps with five different preloads. The kinematics and dynamics of the jumping movements were analysed from force plate and high speed film recordings. The amount of elastic energy stored in the tendons of the leg extensor muscles was calculated by a generalised tendon model, and the muscle coordination was analysed by surface EMG. The best jumping performances were achieved in the jumps with low preloads (counter movement jumps and drop jumps from 0.3 m). A considerable amount of the energy imposed on the legs by prestretch loading was stored in the tendons (26 +/- 3%), but the increased performance could not be explained by a contribution of elastic energy to the positive work performed during the push off. During the preloading, the involved muscles were activated at the onset of the loading. Slow prestretches at the onset of muscle activation under relatively low average stretch loads, as observed during counter movement jumps and drop jumps from 0.3 m, prevented excessive stretching of the muscle fibres in relation to the tendon length changes. This consequently conserved the potential of the muscle fibres to produce positive work during the following muscle-tendon shortening in concert with the release of the tendon strain energy. A significant increase in the activity of m. rectus femoris between jumps with and without prestretch indicated a pronounced action of m. rectus femoris in a transport of mechanical energy produced by the proximal monoarticular m. gluteus maximus at the hip to the knee and thereby enhanced the transformation of rotational joint work to translational work on the mass centre of the body. The changes in muscle activity were reflected in the net muscle powers. Vertical jumping is like most movements constrained by the intended direction of the movement. The movements of the body segments during the prestretches induced a forward rotation and during the take off, a backward rotation of the body. A reciprocal shift in the activities of the biarticular m. rectus femoris and m. semitendinosus indicated that these rotations were counteracted by changes in the direction of the resultant ground reaction vector controlled by these muscles.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 400 WORDS)
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what are some achilles tendon to calf length ratios for some elite jumpers and sprinters? what ratio would be considered "high cut" calves?
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if i read the 2nd study posted correctly, does that mean that calf strength is important?
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what are some achilles tendon to calf length ratios for some elite jumpers and sprinters? what ratio would be considered "high cut" calves?
Would high cut calves count as the calf being less than the tendon length?
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what are some achilles tendon to calf length ratios for some elite jumpers and sprinters? what ratio would be considered "high cut" calves?
Would high cut calves count as the calf being less than the tendon length?
nah, it's like porn.
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what are some achilles tendon to calf length ratios for some elite jumpers and sprinters? what ratio would be considered "high cut" calves?
Would high cut calves count as the calf being less than the tendon length?
WTF? :ninja:
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???
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Wow, this thread gave me uber-hope. I've always wondered about this topic, but never thought about discussing it.
IMO a high-calve would be one that is or shorter than 1/3 of the length of the leg/tendon.
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my take on it is this: i personally don't care one bit because there's nothing I can do about it.
higher calfs = longer tendons = more spring = more impressive athletic performance
nothing for anyone to worry about UNLESS you are into recruiting/picking out talent etc.
in the end, doesn't matter what kind of calfs you have or tendon length you have, you can still perform insane on jumping/sprinting regardless of the build.. i've seen jumper's with huge calfs/shorter tendons who are all power and just fly.
peace
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KellyB just posted an article about it:
http://www.higher-faster-sports.com/shortachillescurse.html
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my take on it is this: i personally don't care one bit because there's nothing I can do about it.
higher calfs = longer tendons = more spring = more impressive athletic performance
nothing for anyone to worry about UNLESS you are into recruiting/picking out talent etc.
in the end, doesn't matter what kind of calfs you have or tendon length you have, you can still perform insane on jumping/sprinting regardless of the build.. i've seen jumper's with huge calfs/shorter tendons who are all power and just fly.
peace
adarq.
for me at least this topic was engineered towards wife selection... :D
just kidding ;D
but i agree 1000000000000000000%
everyone has to play with the cards they are dealt, no sense worrying about what "could have been"
btw kelly the article is really good. You have a knack for simplifying and elucidating what is often confusing and complicated.
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my take on it is this: i personally don't care one bit because there's nothing I can do about it.
higher calfs = longer tendons = more spring = more impressive athletic performance
nothing for anyone to worry about UNLESS you are into recruiting/picking out talent etc.
in the end, doesn't matter what kind of calfs you have or tendon length you have, you can still perform insane on jumping/sprinting regardless of the build.. i've seen jumper's with huge calfs/shorter tendons who are all power and just fly.
peace
adarq.
for me at least this topic was engineered towards wife selection... :D
just kidding ;D
you're not kidding, admit it.......... hahahahah
that's funny
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ha ha ha
i was just imagining meeting a girl with this in mind.
Me: Ok so could you just turn around
Girl: um ok...
Me: nice, nice...oh :(
Girl: what ???
Me: its just your calves
Girl: huh?
Me: they are too low and large
Girl: (starts thinking to herself: pervert...)
Me: Yeah I would prefer someone with higher cut calves but it was nice meeting you... Its a shame really, you were preselected for this date by your ass-- it really indicates an excellent ability to recruit the gluteus maximus but other parts of you were a letdown. Bye
Girl: :pissed:
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ha ha ha
i was just imagining meeting a girl with this in mind.
Me: Ok so could you just turn around
Girl: um ok...
Me: nice, nice...oh :(
Girl: what ???
Me: its just your calves
Girl: huh?
Me: they are too low and large
Girl: (starts thinking to herself: pervert...)
Me: Yeah I would prefer someone with higher cut calves but it was nice meeting you... Its a shame really, you were preselected for this date by your ass-- it really indicates an excellent ability to recruit the gluteus maximus but other parts of you were a letdown. Bye
Girl: :pissed:
I have conversations like this with myself sometimes. I'm pretty sure I'll end up having kids with a girl who is physically attractive at the time we decide to have kids; also as (or more) intelligent/high-achieving as I am. I simply can't envision it being any other way. But will she be athletic, or have athletes in her family? Will I care at that point? At the moment I'm sure I'd like my kids to be more athletic than I am and having kids with a chick with better athletic genes can't hurt there.
Current GF is beautiful and is smart and high-achieving as hell but isn't an athlete (used to be a ballet dancer, pretty good but not pro quality). Marriage/kids with her highly unlikely but these thoughts do enter my mind sometimes.
I know you were kidding, but I'm kind of serious...
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ha ha ha
i was just imagining meeting a girl with this in mind.
Me: Ok so could you just turn around
Girl: um ok...
Me: nice, nice...oh :(
Girl: what ???
Me: its just your calves
Girl: huh?
Me: they are too low and large
Girl: (starts thinking to herself: pervert...)
Me: Yeah I would prefer someone with higher cut calves but it was nice meeting you... Its a shame really, you were preselected for this date by your ass-- it really indicates an excellent ability to recruit the gluteus maximus but other parts of you were a letdown. Bye
Girl: :pissed:
Sticky thread/post material.
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ha ha ha
i was just imagining meeting a girl with this in mind.
Me: Ok so could you just turn around
Girl: um ok...
Me: nice, nice...oh :(
Girl: what ???
Me: its just your calves
Girl: huh?
Me: they are too low and large
Girl: (starts thinking to herself: pervert...)
Me: Yeah I would prefer someone with higher cut calves but it was nice meeting you... Its a shame really, you were preselected for this date by your ass-- it really indicates an excellent ability to recruit the gluteus maximus but other parts of you were a letdown. Bye
Girl: :pissed:
I have conversations like this with myself sometimes. I'm pretty sure I'll end up having kids with a girl who is physically attractive at the time we decide to have kids; also as (or more) intelligent/high-achieving as I am. I simply can't envision it being any other way. But will she be athletic, or have athletes in her family? Will I care at that point? At the moment I'm sure I'd like my kids to be more athletic than I am and having kids with a chick with better athletic genes can't hurt there.
Current GF is beautiful and is smart and high-achieving as hell but isn't an athlete (used to be a ballet dancer, pretty good but not pro quality). Marriage/kids with her highly unlikely but these thoughts do enter my mind sometimes.
I know you were kidding, but I'm kind of serious...
i concur, lbss's current gf is ridiculously hot.
lbss, it doesn't matter, with proper training your kid will become a beast regardless of the parent's genetics.. i can't imagine how impressive athletically i would be right now if i had proper guidance growing up, with my work ethic + starting young and training properly, it would be ridiculous... i just didn't have any guidance and no "natural power", but the work ethic is there.
but ya athletic women are more attractive to me, sprinter's especially.. i don't know if it's even possible, currently or in the future, for me to have a gf/wife who isn't a dedicated athlete, it just wouldn't work with my athletic obsession :F
pc
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ha ha ha
i was just imagining meeting a girl with this in mind.
Me: Ok so could you just turn around
Girl: um ok...
Me: nice, nice...oh :(
Girl: what ???
Me: its just your calves
Girl: huh?
Me: they are too low and large
Girl: (starts thinking to herself: pervert...)
Me: Yeah I would prefer someone with higher cut calves but it was nice meeting you... Its a shame really, you were preselected for this date by your ass-- it really indicates an excellent ability to recruit the gluteus maximus but other parts of you were a letdown. Bye
Girl: :pissed:
I have conversations like this with myself sometimes. I'm pretty sure I'll end up having kids with a girl who is physically attractive at the time we decide to have kids; also as (or more) intelligent/high-achieving as I am. I simply can't envision it being any other way. But will she be athletic, or have athletes in her family? Will I care at that point? At the moment I'm sure I'd like my kids to be more athletic than I am and having kids with a chick with better athletic genes can't hurt there.
Current GF is beautiful and is smart and high-achieving as hell but isn't an athlete (used to be a ballet dancer, pretty good but not pro quality). Marriage/kids with her highly unlikely but these thoughts do enter my mind sometimes.
I know you were kidding, but I'm kind of serious...
i concur, lbss's current gf is ridiculously hot.
lbss, it doesn't matter, with proper training your kid will become a beast regardless of the parent's genetics.. i can't imagine how impressive athletically i would be right now if i had proper guidance growing up, with my work ethic + starting young and training properly, it would be ridiculous... i just didn't have any guidance and no "natural power", but the work ethic is there.
but ya athletic women are more attractive to me, sprinter's especially.. i don't know if it's even possible, currently or in the future, for me to have a gf/wife who isn't a dedicated athlete, it just wouldn't work with my athletic obsession :F
pc
Adarq.org, Supports genetically Superior mate selection
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I have conversations like this with myself sometimes. I'm pretty sure I'll end up having kids with a girl who is physically attractive at the time we decide to have kids; also as (or more) intelligent/high-achieving as I am. I simply can't envision it being any other way. But will she be athletic, or have athletes in her family? Will I care at that point? At the moment I'm sure I'd like my kids to be more athletic than I am and having kids with a chick with better athletic genes can't hurt there.
Current GF is beautiful and is smart and high-achieving as hell but isn't an athlete (used to be a ballet dancer, pretty good but not pro quality). Marriage/kids with her highly unlikely but these thoughts do enter my mind sometimes.
I know you were kidding, but I'm kind of serious...
If that's the largest reservation you have about this chick then get the fuck over it :headbang: Also, don't try and force your future kids into being super athletic. Encourage them to try as many things as possible and do what they like to do as well as they can.
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I have conversations like this with myself sometimes. I'm pretty sure I'll end up having kids with a girl who is physically attractive at the time we decide to have kids; also as (or more) intelligent/high-achieving as I am. I simply can't envision it being any other way. But will she be athletic, or have athletes in her family? Will I care at that point? At the moment I'm sure I'd like my kids to be more athletic than I am and having kids with a chick with better athletic genes can't hurt there.
Current GF is beautiful and is smart and high-achieving as hell but isn't an athlete (used to be a ballet dancer, pretty good but not pro quality). Marriage/kids with her highly unlikely but these thoughts do enter my mind sometimes.
I know you were kidding, but I'm kind of serious...
If that's the largest reservation you have about this chick then get the fuck over it :headbang: Also, don't try and force your future kids into being super athletic. Encourage them to try as many things as possible and do what they like to do as well as they can.
don't be such a pussy..everybody is doing it...all males select better females so they can have superior children...get that beta idea shit outa adarq.org
lol JK
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Genetically different baby!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkeRP6PGvIQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFRPH8StsSY
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I have conversations like this with myself sometimes. I'm pretty sure I'll end up having kids with a girl who is physically attractive at the time we decide to have kids; also as (or more) intelligent/high-achieving as I am. I simply can't envision it being any other way. But will she be athletic, or have athletes in her family? Will I care at that point? At the moment I'm sure I'd like my kids to be more athletic than I am and having kids with a chick with better athletic genes can't hurt there.
Current GF is beautiful and is smart and high-achieving as hell but isn't an athlete (used to be a ballet dancer, pretty good but not pro quality). Marriage/kids with her highly unlikely but these thoughts do enter my mind sometimes.
I know you were kidding, but I'm kind of serious...
If that's the largest reservation you have about this chick then get the fuck over it :headbang: Also, don't try and force your future kids into being super athletic. Encourage them to try as many things as possible and do what they like to do as well as they can.
haha, if this were the biggest reservation i had then i'd be worried about myself. reservations that come before that one (by no means a complete list):
1. we're both 24, MUCH too young to get married IMO
2. she's about to start medical school in another city and i don't want to go back to an LDR
3. i have no long-term stability, nor any desire to have it
3a. there's a solid chance i'll be living overseas in the next couple of years
3b. there's a solid chance i'll be in grad school in the next couple of years
4. the sex is good but i've had better (especially from my now-fundamentalist christian ex, lol) and i can't imagine settling before i've had a bunch more of it
5. i just don't wanna
believe me, i'm not going to force my kids into sports and once they play i'm not gonna be a crazy driving parent living vicariously through my children's athletic success. those parents are pathetic. but, barring disabilities, you can be damn sure those kids are gonna be running around and playing outside as soon as they can stumble forward without falling down. i want them to be physically confident. that doesn't come from 1000 forehands and backhands a day from age 4 on up, it comes from doing just what you said. letting them be kids and encouraging them when they find something they like to do.
them being more athletic than me is just a secondary dream.
/hijack
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Wow I just HOPE my son is really into basketball, I'll turn him into a damn star. I mean with the knowledge that I know now, imaging applying it to an 8 year old in stead of an 18 year old, and the potential rises just so much more. And how knows how much more knowledge we'll all have by the time we have kids? Better protein, better training philosophies, etc.
I mean I'll have him play with toy basketballs when he's a baby and stuff and watch basketball games with him, hoping that he'll have an interest for it, but I don't think I should force it down his throat if he doesn't like it. Like if he falls in love with soccer, then I'll help him like crazy with whatever I know about it.
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Wow I just HOPE my son is really into basketball, I'll turn him into a damn star. I mean with the knowledge that I know now, imaging applying it to an 8 year old in stead of an 18 year old, and the potential rises just so much more. And how knows how much more knowledge we'll all have by the time we have kids? Better protein, better training philosophies, etc.
I mean I'll have him play with toy basketballs when he's a baby and stuff and watch basketball games with him, hoping that he'll have an interest for it, but I don't think I should force it down his throat if he doesn't like it. Like if he falls in love with soccer, then I'll help him like crazy with whatever I know about it.
yup. daughter, too, if i have a daughter. and if the kids don't turn out to be into sports at all, well, that's cool, too. but i'll be damned if they run, throw and jump like idiots.
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if i read the 2nd study posted correctly, does that mean that calf strength is important?
Of the things they looked at yeah the adaptations typically brought about by heavy strenght training (muscule thickness and increased pennation angle) correlated with power, but they weren't looking at stuff like hip strength etc. The main thing is other studies have shown the inherent structure of the calf more important than the strength adaptations for things like 100 meter sprinting, which is the opposite of that study and fits with the overall theme of this thread. The more intense and powerful the activation (jumps, accelerations, changes of directions etc.) the more likely you are to benefit from calf strength or at least not be hurt by having a shitty structure (low insertion points) when compared to less intense rhythmic activities like speed endurance or distance running.