Author Topic: High frequency "unracking"  (Read 9759 times)

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DamienZ

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Re: High frequency "unracking"
« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2011, 03:36:37 pm »
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I had this crazy idea come to my mind some few days ago: what if you're a guy who has his own squat rack/barbell to himself? Would unracking a 1RM+ barbell, holding it on your back for say 30 seconds, and racking it back, every day, for a few times per day, do anything?

I mean, it could trick your CNS into thinking you're heavier, just like a weight vest would. Now obviously there are a handful of questions arising (is there enough time under the bar to make this adaptation occur? is it too risky on the spine? etc) but I thought it was an interesting experiment to take if someone is willing to do it.

For example, if your squat 1RM is 300 lbs and you unrack a 350 lbs bar 10 times per day (throughout the day) for 30 s each time, you'd end up with 300s of total "unrack" TUT daily, so that' 2100 s each week of having a 1RM+ barbell on your back. That's 35 minutes of stimulation per week with a heavier barbell than usual. Not to mention the core strength benefits.

Again, it comes down to injury risk vs. reward possibility.

well, regardless of whether it tricks your cns into thinking you're heavier or not, dno, but, it would make you stronger in the quads/erectors if you phased it in/out properly, it would definitely make the bar feel lighter.. 10x/day is a bit much possibly, but who knows.. a walkout is not that cns intensive, holding it for time definitely is though.. so there's a variety of things you could do such as hold for time, unrack/walkout/walkback/re-rack, or unrack/rack quickly.

frequency would have to be adjusted based on how you feel, not sure how it would effect jumping, i'd imagine it would very up and down how it effects you... vmo's would probably get really big heh..

#1 thing would be safety, i'd only do it in a rack with high safeties..

you also need some good form gripping the bar, you can't do that if squatting bugs your shoulders in the least.

peace


edit: i like parts of the idea but not the holding for time part, and 10x/day could be too much.. but stuff like that should be effective.

normal squatting would be better for this, especially for squatting

Raptor

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Re: High frequency "unracking"
« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2011, 03:43:27 pm »
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Except for the fact that normal squatting (even 1/4 squats) would give you soreness because of the eccentric portion of the lift. And if you go with concentric only squats, there's still going to be fatigue. I was talking pretty much in terms if CNS adaptations.

DamienZ

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Re: High frequency "unracking"
« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2011, 04:32:41 pm »
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I'm 100% sure that you aren't too weak muscular wise to squat a lot more weight than you can atm! You just need to practice more!

adarqui

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Re: High frequency "unracking"
« Reply #18 on: April 15, 2011, 03:38:49 am »
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i'm starting to love this idea... the "high frequency unracking + walkout + hold for ~5s + re-rack" aspect of it.. not holding for max time or anything.. i feel really good after working up to some heavy unracking weights.. for example last night just unracked 385 on my top set, tonight 405, but just feel so good after.. yesterday i didn't squat, simply did the unracking, legs felt very good today but they were going to anyway, but i felt like i had squatted the day before.. tonight i did 295 x 10 then worked up to the 405 unrack.. really loving this idea.

props

Raptor

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Re: High frequency "unracking"
« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2011, 07:28:01 am »
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Yeah I think people need to find the proper variation to it in terms of time. I mean think about it - if you do 5s unracks that can't possibly "hurt" you (other than maybe if you get injured by using too much weight or something) but what I mean by hurt is having a negative influence on power/strength production. For such a small time window, it's gotta have only a stim effect for the CNS (like "hey, I just got fatter by 400 lbs, how about you give me some extra power to be able to survive" kind of effect).

If you do it often (that's to be discovered, what "often" should mean for anybody) over and over and over in time, then the CNS should be able to "accept" and "consider normal" such a level of sudden electrical output in the body. It's like a depth jump basically (but obviously different in terms of signal speed and amount of time that signal is maintained) but at the other part of the spectrum.

For a depth jump and especially depth drop where you hold the landing, there is a strong signal for a short time, but you have to take into account the shock on the joints/bones etc that's going to be detrimental to health over time.

For an unrack, there is a strong but weaker signal than in a depth drop (but still stronger than what you usually get in your normal life or even strength training) that lasts longer than in a depth drop. Sure, you have to take into account spinal load over time in here as well in terms of health, that's why I said you need to be smart and patient using this.

But, again, if you make the CNS adapt and be able to generate this signal "naturally" as in "at any point in time" then it might help getting the "normal" signal threshold that occurs during lifting and jumping at a higher point than if you were not to use this "system" of high frequency unracking.

Dreyth

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Re: High frequency "unracking"
« Reply #20 on: April 15, 2011, 10:39:59 am »
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Sometimes on tough squatting days I do this unrack thing and it helps.

Also, I always make my final warm up set heavier than my work set. If I'm doing sets of 8, then my final two warm up sets are heavier. The added weight definitely makes the bar feel lighter, thus giving me confidence, but also the fact that I'm repping them (only singles) primes me for the movement as well.

Sometimes, when it's really tough, I'll do something like this:

135x5
185x5
225x3
275x1
315x1
365x1
385x10sec unrack
345x5
345x5
345x5

But I've never thought of the idea of "high frequency unracking." I've only ever thought of it as a way to prime you right before your tough work set.

What's weird though, is how when I do a single at 355 or 365 it feels SOOOO heavy on my back, I cannot possibly imagine how I ever squatted 415. I feel like after a certain point, the feeling of heaviness on your back reaches a threshhold and it doesn't feel that much heaver. 275-->315, not much difference. 315-->365, huge difference in feeling. 365-->405, not much again.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2011, 10:41:34 am by Dreyth »
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Raptor

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Re: High frequency "unracking"
« Reply #21 on: April 15, 2011, 01:26:38 pm »
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275-->315, not much difference. 315-->365, huge difference in feeling. 365-->405, not much again.

Yeah that's really interesting, I think I can relate to that, but I have a narrower spectrum to "work with". For me heavy starts at 110 kg... but from that point on, probably 150 feels very heavy, but 130 or 140 seems "somewhat similar" to 110.

adarqui

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Re: High frequency "unracking"
« Reply #22 on: April 17, 2011, 12:11:18 am »
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Yeah I think people need to find the proper variation to it in terms of time. I mean think about it - if you do 5s unracks that can't possibly "hurt" you (other than maybe if you get injured by using too much weight or something) but what I mean by hurt is having a negative influence on power/strength production. For such a small time window, it's gotta have only a stim effect for the CNS (like "hey, I just got fatter by 400 lbs, how about you give me some extra power to be able to survive" kind of effect).

right, it's a heavy load but is not intense in terms of ROM, so the fatigue it causes is basically 0.. with such low fatigue, and with such heavy weight on your back, it's pretty much ALL stim..

i really love this idea, bigtime.


Quote
If you do it often (that's to be discovered, what "often" should mean for anybody) over and over and over in time, then the CNS should be able to "accept" and "consider normal" such a level of sudden electrical output in the body. It's like a depth jump basically (but obviously different in terms of signal speed and amount of time that signal is maintained) but at the other part of the spectrum.

don't see how it's like a depth jump, but it is just "experiencing" some heavy weight.. makes me feel pretty light/strong after i'm done with it, and i feel pretty amp'd up.. next day i feel good so far, feels like i squatted stim wise, but less leg fatigue..

you definitely can use some very high frequencies with this type of training, though i'm not ready to do that yet.. i don't think you even have to go much higher than your 1RM squat, just feeling that weight on your back limited to your 1RM squat is enough to get you feel really good.. when i stayed at 1RM, felt epic the next day, when i went ~30 lb over, felt a little more fatigued the next day but i did do tons of stretching, so not sure what to attribute it to.

the key phrase there is "electric output in the body".. bottom line, you're moving some heavy weight, even though it's a small rom, it's still heavy weight.. that's going to cause significant stim, but beyond that, i think it's great to use just to make any of your lifts feel lighter.. i honestly think my ng-pullups have gone up just from this unracking shit.. calve raises/ng-pullups/plate swings all feel MUCH lighter after i do the unracking set.. i think it transfers over to any movement, just wakes your CNS up hardcore..

im also loving it because, it's getting me out of my squat multiple times per day mindset.. with this unracking crap, i could squat 1x/day for example, then hit unracking sessions for the other sessions throughout the day.. or if my knees/body is feeling a bit beat up, i could just stick to unracking instead of hitting a squat set, so i get some work in with a heavy bar on my back daily while recovering my legs... one of my issues is, when i take one day off from squat, it feels much heavier the next day.. only one day rest can wreck my squat.. but with this unracking crap, i feel strong under the bar so far, regardless of taking a day off.


Quote
For a depth jump and especially depth drop where you hold the landing, there is a strong signal for a short time, but you have to take into account the shock on the joints/bones etc that's going to be detrimental to health over time.

For an unrack, there is a strong but weaker signal than in a depth drop (but still stronger than what you usually get in your normal life or even strength training) that lasts longer than in a depth drop. Sure, you have to take into account spinal load over time in here as well in terms of health, that's why I said you need to be smart and patient using this.

unracking is 100x less intense than DJ's, that's for sure.. only thing i see it being intense with is shoulders eventually.. but knees/back should be fine imo.. spinal column will take more of a beating depth jumping than unracking, pretty sure of it.

i think an issue would exist if you hold the unracking weight for time.. or try to 'bend the knees' under it.. if it's well over your 1RM, just unrack it, maybe walk out 1 step each, pause, then re-rack.. don't get overzealous and try holding for time or trying to do little 1/8th squats etc... if you use this idea like i said, i think it'll be much safer.. holding for 30seconds etc would really burn you out quick i imagine..

tonight i plan on doing unracking REPS, ie, unrack, walkout, re-rack, walk around relaxing, repeat for a number of reps.. ie a cluster of unracking/reracking.. but i plan on only going 385-405 instead of pushing the weight on it,, way over my 1RM.




Quote
But, again, if you make the CNS adapt and be able to generate this signal "naturally" as in "at any point in time" then it might help getting the "normal" signal threshold that occurs during lifting and jumping at a higher point than if you were not to use this "system" of high frequency unracking.

ya definitely..

i think it's helped my workouts a ton when i've used it.. i've yet to do it BEFORE squatting, though i think i will the next time i squat, tomorrow or monday.. but in the unracking sessions themselves, pullups/calve raises/plate swings/WHATEVER just feels so much lighter and i hit more reps/feel stronger on each lift after the unracking set.

being that i pulled a tendon SLIGHTLY in my left adductor, i need something to help keep my squat strength WITHOUT actually squatting at the frequency i was doing so, this shit came in perfect time.. this is really going to help for sure.. so far, my jumping has been REALLY GOOD the day follow the unracking sessions, so 2/2 have been REALLY GOOD.. good sign so far.. we'll see tomorrow.. if i'm just flying crazy tomorrow, after doing multi-rep unracking tonight, let's all just call raptor g0d.

lmao



edit: one thing as a precaution, definitely want to make sure you're getting hamstring work in (rdl/ghr/45deg hyper/whatever) just in case the high freq unracking training causes some serious imbalances.. as for me, when i unrack a bar, even at that depth, i use my hips pretty good, its not a knee driven movement when i unrack a bar, so that's probably something else that's important.. unracking it using a bit more hip focus, just in case.








Sometimes on tough squatting days I do this unrack thing and it helps.

Also, I always make my final warm up set heavier than my work set. If I'm doing sets of 8, then my final two warm up sets are heavier. The added weight definitely makes the bar feel lighter, thus giving me confidence, but also the fact that I'm repping them (only singles) primes me for the movement as well.

Sometimes, when it's really tough, I'll do something like this:

135x5
185x5
225x3
275x1
315x1
365x1
385x10sec unrack
345x5
345x5
345x5

But I've never thought of the idea of "high frequency unracking." I've only ever thought of it as a way to prime you right before your tough work set.

What's weird though, is how when I do a single at 355 or 365 it feels SOOOO heavy on my back, I cannot possibly imagine how I ever squatted 415. I feel like after a certain point, the feeling of heaviness on your back reaches a threshhold and it doesn't feel that much heaver. 275-->315, not much difference. 315-->365, huge difference in feeling. 365-->405, not much again.

interesting, definitely not like that for me.. the more weight i add, the more i feel it.. there's no threshold really.. i feel the increases very pronounced.

Raptor

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Re: High frequency "unracking"
« Reply #23 on: April 17, 2011, 05:12:06 am »
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Glad it helped, it sure will be interesting what happens next.

as for me, when i unrack a bar, even at that depth, i use my hips pretty good, its not a knee driven movement when i unrack a bar, so that's probably something else that's important.. unracking it using a bit more hip focus, just in case.

That's very interesting. Could this unracking thing make you become more aware of the hips if that makes sense? (like the iso stim does)

$ick3nin.vend3tta

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Re: High frequency "unracking"
« Reply #24 on: April 17, 2011, 10:31:50 pm »
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That's very interesting. Could this unracking thing make you become more aware of the hips if that makes sense? (like the iso stim does).

You not using this ISO stim exercise any more Andrew?.


<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWnDOmi0Gvc" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWnDOmi0Gvc</a>
« Last Edit: April 17, 2011, 10:34:01 pm by $ick3nin.vend3tta »

adarqui

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Re: High frequency "unracking"
« Reply #25 on: April 18, 2011, 01:01:20 am »
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That's very interesting. Could this unracking thing make you become more aware of the hips if that makes sense? (like the iso stim does).

You not using this ISO stim exercise any more Andrew?.


<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWnDOmi0Gvc" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWnDOmi0Gvc</a>

nah im not but it's funny you bring it up, im going to buy a 45 degree hyper i think tomorrow .... i need one at the crib, i could be getting in soOooooooooooooooooo much more hamstring work..

i don't know of an alternative to be honest, nothing feels as good as the 45deg hyper iso.. pmghr iso is just too brutal... i have a pmghr, i should hit some reps on that tonight, ya, i think i will.. i been lazy with hamstring work, setting up rdl is a bitch, no excuses, lazy weak bish i am.

if i had a 45deg hyper, i'd do so much hamstring work it would be insane..

pC

Raptor

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Re: High frequency "unracking"
« Reply #26 on: April 18, 2011, 05:15:42 am »
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Haha you looked so much more ... "different" there. Intellectual vs. caveman.

adarqui

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Re: High frequency "unracking"
« Reply #27 on: April 18, 2011, 06:30:43 am »
+1
Haha you looked so much more ... "different" there. Intellectual vs. caveman.

slave to society with a soul wrapped endlessly in duct tape VS progressively more and more free embracing my true animalistic qualities

tychver

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Re: High frequency "unracking"
« Reply #28 on: April 18, 2011, 06:55:19 am »
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Haha you looked so much more ... "different" there. Intellectual vs. caveman.

slave to society with a soul wrapped endlessly in duct tape VS progressively more and more free embracing my true animalistic qualities

Or alternatively just progressively getting more psychotic and losing touch with reality :P

TheSituation

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Re: High frequency "unracking"
« Reply #29 on: April 18, 2011, 08:40:05 am »
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Haha you looked so much more ... "different" there. Intellectual vs. caveman.

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