Adarq.org
Performance Area => Strength, Power, Reactivity, & Speed Discussion => Topic started by: Flip on August 25, 2011, 03:30:29 pm
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Raptor can vouch for that. Let me tell you the story: It was Sunday, and my legs were very tired (DOMS) because of BSS, whenever I do BSS the soreness in my legs is huge and it stays like that for up to 5 days. It's a killer exercise for me... but enough about that, I went in "student park" with nightfly and raptor, nightfly jumped over the car and sheet, and i felt pretty tired but i did something like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ps1QROaii10. Anyway after some kind of dunk session I was more tired than before. But i went in "titan" park and just stayed there, after an hour of loitering, i started slowly making some layups and shot at a 9'9'' rim. Than I asked raptor for the no. 5 basketball and started dunking off 2 feet ( i'm jump considerably more off 1 foot but i was too tired to do that) raptor immediately noticed that i'm plating my legs different, even though i was still going slow and lazy towards the basket part because i was tired and part because that's how i roll. Than i got warmed up, i couldn't feel soreness anymore and i started going almost full speed and plating LR and dunking, i was jumping about 10 cm (4 inches) more than usual. There's an "anger" factor, as raptor calls it that I was using for the first time in my life. I can't use it as well of 1 foot because i can't slow myself down to jump and i run into the fence or some shit like that. Maybe once in my life I had dunked a regular size ball off 2 feet at a 10 foot rim. that happend 4-5 months ago, after that whenever I tried i couldn't not even with the small ball. After my short session on the lower rim in which i threw some tomahawks, 180, 360, all off 2 feet, i went to the 10 foot rim and could dunk easy because i was using that "anger" factor just going full speed and really planting my legs into the ground like i wanted to stomp something, i could dunk easily off 2 feet at a regular size rim. Next day I dunked off 2 feet with 2 hand with a regular size ball on a regular size rim, I wanted to do that from the first day since i started playing basketball, and i thought i was so far from achieving that, but i realized that my calm attitude in general hurt me when i was dunking, 2 legged jumpers you need do be angry, go max speed and plant hard, that shown amazing results for me. I don't know if this helps anyone, I surely hope it does. I just wanted to share with the forum
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yup
when i jump/dunk my best, im always angry.. when im passive/bored/relaxed, i most often stink it up..
i try and tap into that anger too, to get higher.. ipod really helps, havnt listened to one while dunking for a few months, need to get back on that.
i usually grunt/grind my teeth and think about a few things that piss me off.
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@Flip: Really awesome with the 4" PR, that's pretty crazy!
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Interesting, a 4 INCH IMPROVEMENT from being 'angry' lol..
I am pretty much getting the concept of what happened, but would this work for single leg jumping too?
Because whenever I try to accelerate hard and fast in my last 2-3 steps, sometimes on my plant, I feel like I'm hammering my plant down HARD, but this causes me to jump un-smooth. I was thinking, since single leg jumping is less dependent on strength/force transferred into the ground, wouldn't forcefully trying to add extra 'oomph' in the plant on a SLRVJ be useless? Or am I wrong?
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Flip is at a point now that he won't gain too much from improving his approach. He was far away from this point in the past but improved I'd say dramatically (this is not a big word by any means - it's real) in the last week or so. You really need to "power" yourself in a two-leg jump. Obviously, you need great movement efficiency and strength to prevent your knees from collapsing if you do it though.
I could try the same thing Flip did and my knees would collapse and mess my jump up. :ibjumping:
So at this point, besides some better approach (a bit more speed under control if anything) - he's going to be limited by maximal strength. Increase that and Flip will dunk in games on the regular rim no problems.
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@steven: thank you very much
Interesting, a 4 INCH IMPROVEMENT from being 'angry' lol..
I am pretty much getting the concept of what happened, but would this work for single leg jumping too?
Yes it would, i am a single leg jumper, i would love to apply that to my single leg jump, but like I said I feel the need to slow down in order to jump and I can't jump coming very angry and at full speed off 1 leg, but that can change with some plyometrics.
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I think in the one-leg jump it's harder to just "change" your approach speed and power since you're more likely to collapse at the knee if you do it.
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@steven: thank you very much
Interesting, a 4 INCH IMPROVEMENT from being 'angry' lol..
I am pretty much getting the concept of what happened, but would this work for single leg jumping too?
Yes it would, i am a single leg jumper, i would love to apply that to my single leg jump, but like I said I feel the need to slow down in order to jump and I can't jump coming very angry and at full speed off 1 leg, but that can change with some plyometrics.
True, single leg bounding and sprints seem like they'll help a lot. I'm pretty sure you have all seen Kadour Ziani's http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GszNJ1NCWo dunk video. I can't help but marvel at how AGGRESSIVE and FAST his approach is. He just levers over his plant leg like crazy. My dream dunk is Kadour Ziani's SL 360 windmills.
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I could come like that in my plant when I was 17-18 years old. No power, but I could use that speed. I was 67 kg in weight.
Here's a sample of my former speed, although it isn't my best by any means, at 0:09
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RC1-0g3_Xnc
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That's a nice approach Raptor.
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I had 66 kg (145lbs) my lowest, but still had a belly (wtf is up with that) and back than i could feel i was faster when jumping off 1 leg, weight is definitely a factor..
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i apply the "anger approach" to slrvj also... a good example is today, my best dunk came right after this manager came and told me to stop recording... i asked him for one more dunk, he said ok, and as you see him walking towards the door i just smash it down nasty.... i was "legit mad" that he told me to stop recording, i didn't show it to him of course, because im polite, but that anger helped get me to launch on my slrvj.
unless you're a bouncy freak, you're going to have to try and recruit those extra MU's just like you would in a double leg jump.. with double or single, you're not "tightening up" when you use anger of course.. anger is just going to cause a greater release of corticosteroids etc, increase mu output, so it works for single or double.
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I had 66 kg (145lbs) my lowest, but still had a belly (wtf is up with that) and back than i could feel i was faster when jumping off 1 leg, weight is definitely a factor..
Do you guys think, me being 5'8", 5'9" with shoes weighing up to 160 lbs will have a direct negative affect on my SLRVJ assuming relative strength stays the same?
I weigh 151ish right now, and want to bulk up to 160. I know bulking up is not the best thing when it comes to SLRVJ, but of course I won't go past 160.
Basically what I'm asking is,
2 single leg jumpers that are 5'9". One weighs 160 and the other weighs 150. Equal body fat%, relative strength, equal everything else. They will probably jump the same in a DLRVJ, but will there be other factors coming into play performing a SLRVJ with 10 extra pounds of weight that will make the 150lb guy jump higher?
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I had 66 kg (145lbs) my lowest, but still had a belly (wtf is up with that) and back than i could feel i was faster when jumping off 1 leg, weight is definitely a factor..
Do you guys think, me being 5'8", 5'9" with shoes weighing up to 160 lbs will have a direct negative affect on my SLRVJ assuming relative strength stays the same?
I weigh 151ish right now, and want to bulk up to 160. I know bulking up is not the best thing when it comes to SLRVJ, but of course I won't go past 160.
Basically what I'm asking is,
2 single leg jumpers that are 5'9". One weighs 160 and the other weighs 150. Equal body fat%, relative strength, equal everything else. They will probably jump the same in a DLRVJ, but will there be other factors coming into play performing a SLRVJ with 10 extra pounds of weight that will make the 150lb guy jump higher?
if it's mostly lower body mass it shouldn't hurt.. it would probably help most people, as most people muscle up their slrvj's.
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I had 66 kg (145lbs) my lowest, but still had a belly (wtf is up with that) and back than i could feel i was faster when jumping off 1 leg, weight is definitely a factor..
Do you guys think, me being 5'8", 5'9" with shoes weighing up to 160 lbs will have a direct negative affect on my SLRVJ assuming relative strength stays the same?
I weigh 151ish right now, and want to bulk up to 160. I know bulking up is not the best thing when it comes to SLRVJ, but of course I won't go past 160.
Basically what I'm asking is,
2 single leg jumpers that are 5'9". One weighs 160 and the other weighs 150. Equal body fat%, relative strength, equal everything else. They will probably jump the same in a DLRVJ, but will there be other factors coming into play performing a SLRVJ with 10 extra pounds of weight that will make the 150lb guy jump higher?
if it's mostly lower body mass it shouldn't hurt.. it would probably help most people, as most people muscle up their slrvj's.
If most of the 10 pound gain came from upper body, will it hurt the vertical?
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I had 66 kg (145lbs) my lowest, but still had a belly (wtf is up with that) and back than i could feel i was faster when jumping off 1 leg, weight is definitely a factor..
Do you guys think, me being 5'8", 5'9" with shoes weighing up to 160 lbs will have a direct negative affect on my SLRVJ assuming relative strength stays the same?
I weigh 151ish right now, and want to bulk up to 160. I know bulking up is not the best thing when it comes to SLRVJ, but of course I won't go past 160.
Basically what I'm asking is,
2 single leg jumpers that are 5'9". One weighs 160 and the other weighs 150. Equal body fat%, relative strength, equal everything else. They will probably jump the same in a DLRVJ, but will there be other factors coming into play performing a SLRVJ with 10 extra pounds of weight that will make the 150lb guy jump higher?
if it's mostly lower body mass it shouldn't hurt.. it would probably help most people, as most people muscle up their slrvj's.
If most of the 10 pound gain came from upper body, will it hurt the vertical?
it should, a little, maybe 2" or so.. if you're adding considerable muscle weight to everything else except the prime movers (hip/knee/ankle musculature), then expect slightly decreases in performance unless you get alot stronger in the prime movers.. it comes down to relative strength after all.
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You might move differently. Your last step might also lengthen as you will automatically (as you increase strength with that weight) search for more voluntary power and more ROM if you will.
If that's good or bad, I don't know. But as I've seen, you have a pretty short last step so it shouldn't be too bad in your particular situation.
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I think you gotta be aggressive and smooth at the same time when you go on leg.
p.s.: I sometime ask my cousin (the guy who throws me lobs) to insult me in order to ignite the anger. and he is pretty good at that. just sayin'.
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I was throwing down HUGE dunks yesterday after I had an argument with a retard while playing 3 on 3. Did standing vertical jump dunks as well which are pretty hard, even at the low rim.
So yeah, increased aggressiveness = increased neural drive = increased performance. It's like the CNS battery emits more voltage for your body. Level 7 baby!
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Flip was saying he currently sucks at squatting.
He came in and did two sets of 120x3 half squats without a belt AFTER 4 sets of BSSs with 22.5 kg dumbbells. He was saying 100 kg feels heavy with a belt on a week or so ago and he comes in today and does this ^^^
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Flip was saying he currently sucks at squatting.
He came in and did two sets of 120x3 half squats without a belt AFTER 4 sets of BSSs with 22.5 kg dumbbells. He was saying 100 kg feels heavy with a belt on a week or so ago and he comes in today and does this ^^^
sounds like flip caught a good wave, keep ride'n that sh*t flip.
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Congrats,
SO it sounds like you took extra steps and 'pounded' your feet harder?
If I take extra steps, beyond 1 step, I can't jump as high. I just gotta work on it, but I jump highest off of a one step, maybe a skip then one step.
Raptor:
I've seen you talk about your approach in the past and how you think there was more speed. But from the looks of it your legs move fast, but you don't cover much ground at all in each stride, therefore it's not really that fast. THere's a lot more to it, if you look at Kadour, he moves is legs fast but achieves considerable extension in each stride which you do not so that's not true speed I suppose, maybe ground contact time is less but approach velocity can'tbe too fast:
D4: It depends on the GRFs. In triple jumping GRFs can reach 22 tmes BW. 10 lbs times 22 = 220 extra pounds, or 100 kg. Ouch. In SVJ it's like 5 (?no too sure), so 10 extra pounds wouldn't make much of a dif if it contributed.
Then there's bone density, getting bigger I think could help provide a bigger stimulus for bone growth during one leg jump practice or bounding drills. Bone density can reach a limit thogh I think, trabecular density can at least bu tother adaptations will occur. I'm about your size, 155 right now, what I notice is that it's how my CNS is activated that tells me how big or fast I am.
If I lift slowly, I feel slow. If I lift fast, even with upperbdy, I feel lighter and faster and my upperbody doesn't feel like it's weighing anyhting down.
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I never could understand this fetish of your with bones. Kind of brings back J-DUB quotes in my mind.