Adarq.org
Performance Area => Strength, Power, Reactivity, & Speed Discussion => Topic started by: Raptor on August 18, 2013, 01:56:39 pm
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I'm reading through t-nation articles about the subject...
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/front_squats_made_easier
Any other advice? I have very long forearms so the bar would have to sit in the middle of my neck if it is to stay on the fingers... but I'm also unflexible in the upperbody.
So who knows what my problems are.
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I'm reading through t-nation articles about the subject...
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/front_squats_made_easier
Any other advice? I have very long forearms so the bar would have to sit in the middle of my neck if it is to stay on the fingers... but I'm also unflexible in the upperbody.
So who knows what my problems are.
If you have long forearms you just place your hands wider on the bar. That's covered in Starting Strength, I think. Look up the mobility wod stuff for rack position, he's got a bunch of videos about it.
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Many ppl struggle with the FS rack even professional oly dudes. I've heard of SHORT arms being a problem (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVNFuUYBH_s) with a good rack but first time i've heard of long arms being one? I suspect you might be mistaken partly because I have long arms and the rack has never been a problem for me but mostly because people always struggle with mobility, flexibility and comfort when they start doing FS - I think that's pretty much universal. Like Joe suggests a wider grip might be more comfortable to start with it and then slowly over time you can bring your hands in as you gain the mobility. Otherwise try straps.
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Yeah my front squat sucks as well, purely because I'm not comfortable with the rack position. It's annoying because I feel I could squat a decent amount but my arms/shoulders are giving out way before my legs get tired. But I'm gonna keep working at it because the benefits are obvious. Would love to have FS=BS one day.
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Well like I said - if I were to keep the elbows high then my reach with the palms/fingers would be behind my back... somewhere around the trapezius. So that's where the bar should be in order for me to keep the elbows high. It's basically impossible to do with the bar on the shoulders.
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^vid or photo?
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Well like I said - if I were to keep the elbows high then my reach with the palms/fingers would be behind my back... somewhere around the trapezius. So that's where the bar should be in order for me to keep the elbows high. It's basically impossible to do with the bar on the shoulders.
just grip the bar wider, seriously
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Well like I said - if I were to keep the elbows high then my reach with the palms/fingers would be behind my back... somewhere around the trapezius. So that's where the bar should be in order for me to keep the elbows high. It's basically impossible to do with the bar on the shoulders.
just grip the bar wider, seriously
I tried it and it's even worse :P
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Well like I said - if I were to keep the elbows high then my reach with the palms/fingers would be behind my back... somewhere around the trapezius. So that's where the bar should be in order for me to keep the elbows high. It's basically impossible to do with the bar on the shoulders.
It sounds to me like what you think is 'high elbows' is too high. It's just a stupid cue man, stuff white people say for no good reason. The actual goal is to have the elbows perpependicular to your torso, that's all, nothing more. If you take the cue too literally then you'll indeed find it an impossible position to maintain. But without seeing what are doing this thread is kinda pointless so i'm bowing out, you're so frustrating to help man. lol.
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OK, I'll film it now in my home but I don't have an Olympic barbell, just a 10 kg bar. But I guess good enough to picture it.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fQbwkmNXRU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuwPOGXyB_s
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maybe this video can help.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QZFQD9nUP4
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Hey good video. Yeah, I've seen a bunch of similar ones.
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(http://i.imgur.com/2lVUhxr.png)
It appears to me your biceps/triceps might be too tight, you want to close the angle btw your bicep and forearm a lot more. Without the bar, practice bringing your wrist into your shoulder. If it helps push down on your forearm using your other hand. Use the palm against the wall stretch too. Also it's slightly different with an oly bar. I have a steel pipe I use to practice snatches and it's weird to rack cleans with for some reason. You can't wrap your hand around it as much as with the thicker olympic bar. So there is that. The other thing is when you have some weight on there, it will help stretch and adjust your hands better with time. But yea I see nothing wrong with the length of your arms, just flexibility which will improve quickly as you work on it. Good luck!
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Thanks!
Then I guess it's going to be figuring out what to do to maintain a straight, vertical body, since going down will make me lean forward quite a bit (it does right now).
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Maybe you are bring your hip back too much, try bringing hip a little back while keeping upright, don't go to a point where your body leans that means its too far back and then go down.
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any updates on your progress?
I had similar problems when starting front squats but having done them for a while now my wrists feel fine when doing them and I can get in the right position.
one thing though, my upper back tends to ache for a few days afterwards. do you get that? I've looked it up and am having trouble finding the cause.
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I tried today to get into a front rack position... miles away from that. No way it can be done.
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Mybe your anterior pic tilt makes it difficult
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I don't know but the more I think about it... the more I'm starting to believe there's something in my hip mobility/flexibility that is the culprit.
That and general core/lowerab strength. It's the same thing that makes me look at the ground when I jump off two feet. I have to make a conscious effort to stay with a vertical back as in a front or high bar squat. My natural tendency is to look at the ground and bend forward, like in a low bar squat or a deadlift.
It's really depressing because I haven't been able to figure this out in so much time... years basically. I haven't found anybody to give me good ideas and perspectives either.
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Try using the OHS as a diagnostic.
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I can do overhead squats "good enough". I can go all the way down in a full squat with O-lifting shoes on but only with a light bar (10 kg).
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Can you do them with upright arms and flat spine with the bar overhead or does it fly forward to to your toes? It's a good test for mobility. If you can do it reasonably well it means you've got decent mobility. I do them for warming up to squatting. To start with, I have terrible OHS form, but as I work on my mobility it gets better and when I can do a comfortable OHS i'll go on to my FS workout.
edit, so this is my pre-workout mobility sequence
- loosen up my upper and middle back and shoulders with a band stretch. not sure what it's called but draw out the band in front of you with palms out and then take it behind and touch your lower back and repeat it. Usually do about 2 sets of 8 or until I feel freed up
- take a pvc pipe to my traps and behind my neck, that takes seconds, but it's important because it frees up your neck to have a comfortable rack position without choking yourself etc
- roll on a softball against a wall traps, lats that upper mid back area. This is quick too, about 20-30 seconds and done
- work down the back but also take a very painful detour around the obliques (i think) -- rollling here is very painful but if you do it right (arms up in the air), it will do wonders for t-spine mobility
- new one for me is painful but awesome -- rolling on my glutes -- need this to have a decent upright position at the bottom of a squat so it's v. important
- usual kstar bullshit stretches everyone does, so called couch stretch which is a bit useless imho but i do it anyway because everyone raves about it
- roll hips against wall .. i think pirformis? hurts like hell but it's cool
- free up quads, softball roll against wall .. magic for knees
- very important, ankles and calves, have to use pvc pipe for lower leg
- finally weighted ankle stretch, this feels so wrong but i kinda do it anyway, get into a squat position with the empty barbell across your quads near the knee, push down to stretch ankle on each side Then work up to using weight. i usually finish with 60kg on this, no shoes because that seems to help with the stretch
and im sure i'm forgetting some but if i go thru all that, will have decent mobility to do an easy comfortable correct OHS which then tells me i'm ready for FS.
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You don't like the couch stretch? My squats feel so much better if my hip flexors are loosened up.
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You don't like the couch stretch? My squats feel so much better if my hip flexors are loosened up.
This is exactly what I mean. People get so much out of it, i can't help think i'm missing out. I don't get much out of it for hips. I feel my quads being stretched pretty good though. Which is ok i suppose, i just don't see why fuss over a quad stretch .. but that's why i am persisting with it in case something clicks one day.
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Watch the whole video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fN3NhZ5Ifc
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15 minutes of brett contrariness......... no thank you .. would rather watch a lord gomad sermon
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It doesn't matter who brings the message. What matters is if he's right or not.
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It's good to know my structural problems are actually reasons for people to get threads like this going, and point at me showing "how much of a pussy I am" for not being able to do front squats!
Great! You pussies are still not being able to dunk yet?
I don't know but the more I think about it... the more I'm starting to believe there's something in my hip mobility/flexibility that is the culprit.
That and general core/lowerab strength. It's the same thing that makes me look at the ground when I jump off two feet. I have to make a conscious effort to stay with a vertical back as in a front or high bar squat. My natural tendency is to look at the ground and bend forward, like in a low bar squat or a deadlift.
It's really depressing because I haven't been able to figure this out in so much time... years basically. I haven't found anybody to give me good ideas and perspectives either.
Butthurt much :D ? I thought you were cooler than that Raptor! Anyway, you say it's mobility problems holding you back, are you doing any of the excellent mobility exercises that joe, entropy etc have been suggesting to do in the thread to help with these issues? Blaming "structural problems" for not being able to FS is kind of a cop out IMO. It's like if the sub-6ft guys trying to dunk here just giving up because they have the "structural problem" of not being tall enough!
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It doesn't matter who brings the message. What matters is if he's right or not.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRAY4fYtF2Y
I think this video sums him pretty well. Btw he has terrible form himself, don't know why these guys go around claiming to be experts when they can't do a good job on their own lifts!
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I'm actually reading through Kelly's book before deciding what exactly I need/will do. I'm also started watching all his episodes of mobility wod on youtube.