Adarq.org
Performance Area => Strength, Power, Reactivity, & Speed Discussion => Topic started by: Harvey on April 03, 2012, 02:47:07 am
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All the elite jumpers, i.e. MJ, ACB Jr, Leonel have one major thing in common. They have a ridiculously low BFP. Someone told me that MJ was considered clinically anorexic with his BFP of 3% at one stage (obviously wasn't...).
I think there's a lot of emphasis on strength and reactivity training and not enough about getting ripped. There's this guy I train with. Same height. Same reach. Weaker than me. I weigh 80kg he weighs 72kg. He gets up higher than I do because he's skinny as. I have a higher muscle percentage but also a higher BFP.
I think people need to be aiming for <9% if they're serious about getting to 40-50".
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All the elite jumpers, i.e. MJ, ACB Jr, Leonel have one major thing in common. They have a ridiculously low BFP. Someone told me that MJ was considered clinically anorexic with his BFP of 3% at one stage (obviously wasn't...).
I think there's a lot of emphasis on strength and reactivity training and not enough about getting ripped. There's this guy I train with. Same height. Same reach. Weaker than me. I weigh 80kg he weighs 72kg. He gets up higher than I do because he's skinny as. I have a higher muscle percentage but also a higher BFP.
I think people need to be aiming for <9% if they're serious about getting to 40-50".
Of course low bodyfat % is important, but the example you gave does not support this at all...
There can be numerous reasons why the guy you train with jumps higher than you.... It can be because of the body fat, but I'm 100% sure many other factors come into play. And you can't have a higher muscle mass % AND a high body fat %.... If you're BF% is higher than his, than his lean mass % is higher than yours... His relative strength is very likely higher than yours, resulting in a higher vertical. Even if his relative strength is lower than yours, it can still be better reactive strength, RFD, millions of things.
Being skinny and being lean are two different things.
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Another example is when I weigh in before testing at 78kg as opposed to 81kg. I know I'm in for a PR or close to it since I'm only 3kg lighter. I know that could be muscle, fat or water weight, but essentially, the lighter you are, the higher you're going to jump.
At the elite level, having next to no fat is probably one of the best ways to optimise your power output, I'm guessing...
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Another example is when I weigh in before testing at 78kg as opposed to 81kg. I know I'm in for a PR or close to it since I'm only 3kg lighter. I know that could be muscle, fat or water weight, but essentially, the lighter you are, the higher you're going to jump.
At the elite level, having next to no fat is probably one of the best ways to optimise your power output, I'm guessing...
I'm not arguing that the lower your body fat %, the higher you will jump (most of the time).
But none of your examples make any fucking sense.
"the lighter you are, the higher you're going to jump?" WTF does that even mean? I'm lighter than Derrick Rose, so I will jump higher than him? Fundamentally, it comes down to power to bodyweight ratio... Jeezus :uhhhfacepalm:
And if you did that test, and weighed in 3kg lighter, you probably just lost water weight. Of course losing water weight will help you jump higher since you're not losing muscle/strength. But why don't you just go by your theory and diet and keep losing more weight, without regards to strength. Since, "the lighter you are, the higher you're going to jump". If those 3kg loss was muscle, you would not jump higher. It was water weight, which you will easily put back on.
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"the lighter you are, the higher you're going to jump?" WTF does that even mean?
Obviously I'm talking proportionally to yourself. One day I'm 100kg, next day I'm 95kg. If I lost 5kg of fat, I'm going to jump higher. Therefore I'm lighter and will jump higher.
The toughest thing for athletes is losing fat and gaining strength/muscle. This is actually something I'm going to be doing this year. I don't believe it's beneficial to bulk/cut for what I'm after, so I'm going to have to adjust my diet accordingly to support both sides.
I'm personally going for 8-9% BFP as well as strength/muscle gains.
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"the lighter you are, the higher you're going to jump?" WTF does that even mean?
Obviously I'm talking proportionally to yourself. One day I'm 100kg, next day I'm 95kg. If I lost 5kg of fat, I'm going to jump higher. Therefore I'm lighter and will jump higher.
WOW I feel like I'm talking to sickenin vendetta again like last year in the NBA training thread...
When the hell did you say losing FAT? Never. If you're arguing (which you never remotely did) that fat loss = higher jumps, then.... No shit.
And of course you'll jump higher, but it's not because you're "lighter" (except some unilateral jumpers cases), it's because your relative power increased.
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The whole fucking thread is about "IMPORTANCE OF LOW BODY FAT PERCENTAGE". What the fuck are you on about? I made one example about someone who HAS LESS FAT than I do being able to jump higher than me. Yeah, sure, we can talk about him being more reactively equipped but it's highly likely that he gets up higher because he's relatively strong and WEIGHTS 8 KILOGRAMS LESS THAN ME. Of those 8kg, probably half of them will be fat.
Fat, fat, fat. Leonel Marshall had no fat. Michael Jordan had no fat. Kadour Ziani has no fat.
All anyone ever talks about is relative power. RELATIVE power is POWER RELATIVE TO BODY WEIGHT. BODY WEIGHT is muscle vs FAT.
I'm trying to steer away from the relative power/strength/lifting bullshit for a change and talk about fat. And yet you're bringing up something completely different and saying that I'm not talking about fat.
So let me ask you this, do you think jumping athletes focus enough on fat reduction? Do you think there should be more emphasis on fat reduction?
For the thread's sake, please don't go on about relative power.
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You were talking about bodyweight loss and fat loss synonymously idiot. You can't just use one term as a synonym for the other. They're completely different.
I made one example about someone who HAS LESS FAT than I do being able to jump higher than me. Yeah, sure, we can talk about him being more reactively equipped but it's highly likely that he gets up higher because he's relatively strong and WEIGHTS 8 KILOGRAMS LESS THAN ME. Of those 8kg, probably half of them will be fat.
That part I bold/italicized, is another example of your poor arguing abilities. What does him weighing 8kg less than you have ANYTHING to do with him jumping higher than you, if you already stated he has more relative strength?
The part I underlined, you never said he has less fat than you dumbass. You just said he's lighter than you. How the fuck should I know if he's not 72kg of fatness? A 25%BF 72kg man will have more fat than a 12% 80kg man.
LOL, of those 8kg, probably half of them will be fat? WTF DOES THAT EVEN MEAN?! So if he gained 8kg of bodyweight, it's not possible for him to gain 7kg muscle and 1 kg fat? If you lost 8kg to match his BW, it's not possible for you to lose 7kg fat and 1kg muscle?
So let me ask you this, do you think jumping athletes focus enough on fat reduction? Do you think there should be more emphasis on fat reduction?
I think jumping athletes should focus on fat reduction if they are above 12%. And if they are at 12% and are already over 2xBW on there full squat, I think they should pursue single digit BF%.
I think single leg jumpers should pursue single digit BF% well before 2xBW.
Other than that, I think focusing on strength/power is more important, provided that you're not a fatass to begin with.
For the thread's sake, please don't go on about relative power.
You're idiotic reasonings make it hard for people to steer the topic away from what you want. Like your smolov tip thread where you got sad cause people didnt give tips, but told you to not to do smolov instead.
Learn to intellectually make arguments please.
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I think single leg jumpers should pursue single digit BF% well before 2xBW.
Why.
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Yeah low body fat is essential coz fat is just dead weight. Most of the elite jumpers are pretty skinny guys yet still incredibly powerful e.g t-dub, darlington, guy dupuy, kadour ziani, holm, etc. I wreckon where relative strength helps out the most is with standing vertical. Once you get a higher standing vert you can transfer those gains over to running though. The only trouble with getting down to low body fat is if you're not naturally a low bodyfat kind of guy. I mean everybody can get down to low bodyfat with excessive dieting but is the dieting worth it?
With me I'd rather follow D4 advice and just get down and maintain around 12% bf while substancially increasing my strength because my lack of leg strength is my main liability atm. For somebody who has already got the strength (e.g Scooby) perhaps losing fat and even bodyweight would be the best possible thing they could do for their vertical improvement. Just depends on the individual and where they're at imo.
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^^^ do you misspell "reckon" intentionally? you do it very consistently and to be honest, it looks kind of awesome with the "w." like you're gonna wreck something with all your reckoning.
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Nah i'm just a retard that can't spell :uhhhfacepalm: I always thought it had a 'w' haha. Now i know it doesn't lol.
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I think single leg jumpers should pursue single digit BF% well before 2xBW.
Why.
Single leg jumping has more to do with leverage and a lighter and leaner frame will only help that. It has less to do with overall strength/power compared to a double leg jump.
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When I weigh 300 lbs with 25% bodyfat and powersnatch 900 lbs, where do you think that puts my SVJ? Right, probably a lot higher than Harvey's.
VJ height is multi-causally influenced by different things. Explosive strength (ES) and bodyweight (BW) are two important determinants but in isolation they won't be great predictors. Maybe the ratio ES/BW is the most pragmatic number to optimize during VJ training. What that means is that you can either increase ES or decrease BW. Often one will have to increase both just making sure that ES/BW gets higher. And that is all there is to it. There is nothing special about a low BF percentage except that young men, strangely enough, crave to look like the protagonists of Twilight which results in their irrational fear of putting on useful body mass.
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When I weigh 300 lbs with 25% bodyfat and powersnatch 900 lbs, where do you think that puts my SVJ? Right, probably a lot higher than Harvey's.
VJ height is multi-causally influenced by different things. Explosive strength (ES) and bodyweight (BW) are two important determinants but in isolation they won't be great predictors. Maybe the ratio ES/BW is the most pragmatic number to optimize during VJ training. What that means is that you can either increase ES or decrease BW. Often one will have to increase both just making sure that ES/BW gets higher. And that is all there is to it. There is nothing special about a low BF percentage except that young men, strangely enough, crave to look like the protagonists of Twilight which results in their irrational fear of putting on useful body mass.
Steven, I agree with everything you said but am interested in if you think the exact same thing for single leg jumpers?
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When I weigh 300 lbs with 25% bodyfat and powersnatch 900 lbs, where do you think that puts my SVJ? Right, probably a lot higher than Harvey's.
meh. There's a point of diminishing returns from what I understand. Obviously you're being sarcastic with the weight but that's not the point. Nobody on this site is anywhere near that point though, so don't think I'm saying stay weak and skinny Raptor.
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When I weigh 300 lbs with 25% bodyfat and powersnatch 900 lbs, where do you think that puts my SVJ? Right, probably a lot higher than Harvey's.
meh. There's a point of diminishing returns from what I understand. Obviously you're being sarcastic with the weight but that's not the point. Nobody on this site is anywhere near that point though, so don't think I'm saying stay weak and skinny Raptor.
I think we do not disagree.
Steven, I agree with everything you said but am interested in if you think the exact same thing for single leg jumpers?
In principal it does. It might be that single leg jumpers have different priorities, but they still would want to be really powerful in relation to their bodyweight, right?
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Steven, I agree with everything you said but am interested in if you think the exact same thing for single leg jumpers?
In principal it does. It might be that single leg jumpers have different priorities, but they still would want to be really powerful in relation to their bodyweight, right?
Well, if added bodyweight does not bode well for single leg jumping, shouldn't adding more mass than necessary not be a focus for single leg jumpers? Since power/strength doesn't correlate with jumping high as much as it does compared to double leg jumping?
I mean of course I agree a single leg jumper should try to improve there power/BW ratio as much as possible, but I would think they should try to do so without gaining too much weight, while a double leg jumper can ignore this and gain more weight without worrying about it as long as the weight is muscle.
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Steven, I agree with everything you said but am interested in if you think the exact same thing for single leg jumpers?
In principal it does. It might be that single leg jumpers have different priorities, but they still would want to be really powerful in relation to their bodyweight, right?
Well, if added bodyweight does not bode well for single leg jumping, shouldn't adding more mass than necessary not be a focus for single leg jumpers? Since power/strength doesn't correlate with jumping high as much as it does compared to double leg jumping?
I mean of course I agree a single leg jumper should try to improve there power/BW ratio as much as possible, but I would think they should try to do so without gaining too much weight, while a double leg jumper can ignore this and gain more weight without worrying about it as long as the weight is muscle.
There is going to be an optimal bodyweight for every individual and jump type. Higher will be worse, lower will be worse as well. The mean optimal bodyweight is going to be lower for single leg jumpers I believe. But you do not want to "minimize" bodyweight as Harvey indirectly suggested (see wording "anorexic"). You want to be around that "optimal" spot, where your body can function properly, where you can train and recover properly and where you are really powerful and strong.
I want to ask you a different but related question though. You said strength/power does not correlate high with single leg jump height. Regardless of whether this is true or not, what do you suggest single leg jumpers to train then? You don't suggest to add leg length, do you? ;-)
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Steven, I agree with everything you said but am interested in if you think the exact same thing for single leg jumpers?
In principal it does. It might be that single leg jumpers have different priorities, but they still would want to be really powerful in relation to their bodyweight, right?
Well, if added bodyweight does not bode well for single leg jumping, shouldn't adding more mass than necessary not be a focus for single leg jumpers? Since power/strength doesn't correlate with jumping high as much as it does compared to double leg jumping?
I mean of course I agree a single leg jumper should try to improve there power/BW ratio as much as possible, but I would think they should try to do so without gaining too much weight, while a double leg jumper can ignore this and gain more weight without worrying about it as long as the weight is muscle.
There is going to be an optimal bodyweight for every individual and jump type. Higher will be worse, lower will be worse as well. The mean optimal bodyweight is going to be lower for single leg jumpers I believe. But you do not want to "minimize" bodyweight as Harvey indirectly suggested (see wording "anorexic"). You want to be around that "optimal" spot, where your body can function properly, where you can train and recover properly and where you are really powerful and strong.
I want to ask you a different but related question though. You said strength/power does not correlate high with single leg jump height. Regardless of whether this is true or not, what do you suggest single leg jumpers to train then? You don't suggest to add leg length, do you? ;-)
I agree on the whole finding your optimal weight idea.
I never said strength/power does not correlate high with single leg jumping lol. I am a single leg jumper and am working hard to get to 2xBW squat. I said it does not correlate high AS MUCH as it does for a double leg jump which I believe you will agree with as well. We all know double leg jumping relies more on power than leverage and the vice versa is true for single leg jumping.
You just seemed like you were a huge advocate of gaining muscle mass to improve power output, so I was wondering if you had any alterations to that idea when it comes to single leg jumping when too much mass/weight can hurt more than in double leg jumping.
However, I took your words wrong and now see that you aren't really saying "gain as much muscle mass/weight as possible because it = more power/strength", but instead you're just simply saying don't be scared to gain some weight/muscle, as long as you don't go past your optimal range.
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... but instead you're just simply saying don't be scared to gain some weight/muscle, as long as you don't go past your optimal range.
Exactly!
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irrational fear of putting on useful body mass.
That's just it. Fat isn't useful body mass. Is there any way we can increase strength/power/elasticity and remove body fat efficiently?
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irrational fear of putting on useful body mass.
That's just it. Fat isn't useful body mass. Is there any way we can increase strength/power/elasticity and remove body fat efficiently?
(http://dianabol.net/images/about-dianabol1.jpg)
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irrational fear of putting on useful body mass.
That's just it. Fat isn't useful body mass. Is there any way we can increase strength/power/elasticity and remove body fat efficiently?
Remove fat = change your diet
Increase strength/power/elasticity = train
Obviously while doing the former, the latter will slow down, or get weaker, all depending on your current levels of body composition and strength and training history...
You can improve both at the same time, depending on your current levels if you eat right and get your macro ratios on target.
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irrational fear of putting on useful body mass.
That's just it. Fat isn't useful body mass. Is there any way we can increase strength/power/elasticity and remove body fat efficiently?
Remove fat = change your diet
Increase strength/power/elasticity = train
Obviously while doing the former, the latter will slow down, or get weaker, all depending on your current levels of body composition and strength and training history...
You can improve both at the same time, depending on your current levels if you eat right and get your macro ratios on target.
That's what I wanted to hear. Would you recommend doing so or taking the easy option?
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irrational fear of putting on useful body mass.
That's just it. Fat isn't useful body mass. Is there any way we can increase strength/power/elasticity and remove body fat efficiently?
Remove fat = change your diet
Increase strength/power/elasticity = train
Obviously while doing the former, the latter will slow down, or get weaker, all depending on your current levels of body composition and strength and training history...
You can improve both at the same time, depending on your current levels if you eat right and get your macro ratios on target.
That's what I wanted to hear. Would you recommend doing so or taking the easy option?
Would I recommend doing what? And whats the easy option..? Be more clear.
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irrational fear of putting on useful body mass.
That's just it. Fat isn't useful body mass. Is there any way we can increase strength/power/elasticity and remove body fat efficiently?
Remove fat = change your diet
Increase strength/power/elasticity = train
Obviously while doing the former, the latter will slow down, or get weaker, all depending on your current levels of body composition and strength and training history...
You can improve both at the same time, depending on your current levels if you eat right and get your macro ratios on target.
That's what I wanted to hear. Would you recommend doing so or taking the easy option?
Would I recommend doing what? And whats the easy option..? Be more clear.
Trying to lose fat and gain muscle/strength/etc. Or 'easy way' being disregard losing fat and focus more on muscle/strength/etc.
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One way is not the "easy way" Both require hard and dedicated work.
Dude, I already posted my advice on this situation in an earlier post..... I said if you are over 12% BF, get to ~12% first then get your strength up. If you're over 2xBW squat, then try to get even leaner.... If you're a single leg jumper, get to ~10% ASAP and then build up your strength. This is all just my opinion.
In your terms, the "hard way" of losing fat and building muscle is only going to be possible if your within certain body fat and strength levels as I already have stated... If you're 7% BF, you're not going to get leaner while getting stronger. If you're 20%BF it's pretty easy to build muscle and lose fat simultaneously. But if this 20%BF guy has a 3xBW squat and 2xBW Bench, he probably won't gain much muscle/strength, if at all, if he's trying to lose fat.
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Who will jump higher (same person so same body structure):
Same guy at 250 lbs and 500 lbs squat
Same guy at 150 lbs and 300 lbs squat
Off one leg ^^^
What about this:
Same guy at 200 lbs and 400 lbs squat with 15% bodyfat (less lean body mass but more powerful neural signals)
Same guy at 200 lbs and 400 lbs squat with 10% bodyfat (more lean body mass but less powerful neural signals)
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What about this:
Same guy at 200 lbs and 400 lbs squat with 15% bodyfat (less lean body mass but more powerful neural signals)
Same guy at 200 lbs and 400 lbs squat with 10% bodyfat (more lean body mass but less powerful neural signals)
This is something I've wondered about myself for a long time. Is bodyfat just simply dead weight? Or does it also affect posture/leverage/etc.. enough to the point of higher or lower jump heights.
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irrational fear of putting on useful body mass.
That's just it. Fat isn't useful body mass. Is there any way we can increase strength/power/elasticity and remove body fat efficiently?
Why do you think fat is not useful? A certain amount of body-fat IS useful and necessary. The question is rather where the optimum range for a given individual and goal is.
The problem you have, and that is where "irrational" comes into play, is that you want to LOOK lean as well as perform, train and recover well. Recognize the capital wording of "look" - that is to emphasize that this is a rather different goal from improving sports performance. If you weren't heavily concerned about your abs you would aim to optimize the ES/BW ratio slowly and steadily over time, regardless of which body composition comes along in the process. Instead you for some reason think that you can avoid optimization problems between opposing goals, which you cannot.
Also realize the high probability that optimal BF-levels differ between individuals depending on many factors. For example gender - women will probably perform best with higher BF% compared to men. Hormonal differences between individuals are also very likely to be an influence, as are a plethora of other things.
Finding which level YOU perform best at is going to be an iterative process and right now you probably are not able to come to a valid judgment. Train heavy for a while, make steady progress in your lifts and other athletic tasks, and don't worry too much about your bodyweight. You don't need to eat "unhealthy" or stuff yourself if you do not want to, but eat enough to recover at a normal rate for your degree of training advancement (read: very fast recovery and a lot more food than you eat when not training). Doing that correctly you will quickly understand that gaining bodyweight in the process is not going to do hinder your progress - quite the contrary is often true, especially with guys like you.
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Who will jump higher (same person so same body structure):
Same guy at 250 lbs and 500 lbs squat
Same guy at 150 lbs and 300 lbs squat
Off one leg ^^^
What about this:
Same guy at 200 lbs and 400 lbs squat with 15% bodyfat (less lean body mass but more powerful neural signals)
Same guy at 200 lbs and 400 lbs squat with 10% bodyfat (more lean body mass but less powerful neural signals)
First situation, assuming they have the same bodyfat percentage, the 250 pounder is much stronger than his squat is showing (he's also on tons of hormones), so he will jump higher off 2 legs. 1 leg has too many variables to have an answer for. Lebron jumps off one leg and he's not "skinny".
Second, it's the same thing. The guy with 10% is actually stronger, he is just worse at the squat. Neural signals for squatting may have a carryover for jumping, but it's not a direct correlation, so the 2nd guy is jumping higher.
And LBSS, d-bol isn't good for that. Tren/hgh is good if you want to burn fat and put on tons of muscle.
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Just wrote an article about this (actually, more 1-leg jump related):
http://evolutionaryathletics.com/blogs/raptor/2012/04/04/bodyweight-and-the-one-leg-jump/
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Same guy at 200 lbs and 400 lbs squat with 15% bodyfat (less lean body mass but more powerful neural signals)
Same guy at 200 lbs and 400 lbs squat with 10% bodyfat (more lean body mass but less powerful neural signals)
At the end of the day, I'm putting money on the latter being able to jump higher. Firstly, you said it's the same guy so how could he have different neural signals? But let's go with the fact they do have different NS. There's no real information supporting the difference in jump height when looking at neural signal strength. The solid information is that these people are equally as strong and one has less fat and is therefore lighter and will produce more power for body weight.
If you weren't heavily concerned about your abs you would aim to optimize the ES/BW ratio slowly and steadily over time, regardless of which body composition comes along in the process.
It's not about looks at all. It's about what will get me jumping higher, quicker. Right now I'm about 12% BFP and not very strong. I believe if I were to get down to 8% BFP and get a little stronger by the end of the year, I'd be jumping higher than if I were 12% BFP and considerably stronger.
On a side note, as a volleyballer there's something I've noticed recently. After a tournament (3+ days), EVERYONE jumps higher. Last time I got a PR running vertical was directly after a 7 day volleyball tournament (involving lots of jumping). Last night I went back to the gym after several weeks off weight training due to being at a tournament. I was able to jump a near PR (higher than I was prior to the tournament anyway). What does this tell us? The focus needs to be less weight-related and more jump-orientated, I think.
I don't think doing plyometrics 24/7 is going to be a lasting training regime and one will plateau, but I think people are too concerned with strength gains and don't focus on jumping enough. Completely off-topic, I know.
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Same guy at 200 lbs and 400 lbs squat with 15% bodyfat (less lean body mass but more powerful neural signals)
Same guy at 200 lbs and 400 lbs squat with 10% bodyfat (more lean body mass but less powerful neural signals)
The solid information is that these people are equally as strong and one has less fat and is therefore lighter and will produce more power for body weight.
how the hell is he lighter? they're both 200lbs
It's not about looks at all. It's about what will get me jumping higher, quicker. Right now I'm about 12% BFP and not very strong. I believe if I were to get down to 8% BFP and get a little stronger by the end of the year, I'd be jumping higher than if I were 12% BFP and considerably stronger.
On a side note, as a volleyballer there's something I've noticed recently. After a tournament (3+ days), EVERYONE jumps higher. Last time I got a PR running vertical was directly after a 7 day volleyball tournament (involving lots of jumping). Last night I went back to the gym after several weeks off weight training due to being at a tournament. I was able to jump a near PR (higher than I was prior to the tournament anyway). What does this tell us? The focus needs to be less weight-related and more jump-orientated, I think.
There's so many other variables as to why you may have jumped higher or your teammates or whatever... This is the worst analysis I've ever fuckin read... Maybe all you and your volleyball buddies have a lot of strength built up but the potential has never been utilized with lack of jumping... There are a million maybes. Don't claim this little story tells us ALL that we should focus mroe on jump-oriented training, when everybody is different and has different needs....
I don't think doing plyometrics 24/7 is going to be a lasting training regime and one will plateau, but I think people are too concerned with strength gains and don't focus on jumping enough. Completely off-topic, I know.
Where are you even getting your information from???
Most jump programs out there are more plyometric focused... On this FORUM, everybody advises frequent jumping WITH strength training... WTH are you even talking about?
Every single one of your posts have been proven to be retarded... Now if you're weak and around 12%BF, and a double leg jumper, go get stronger would be my advice, and I would bet most other people's as well. If not, so be it. Stop trying to analyze and prove all kinds of retarded things and just go train. You are obviously one of those people who think too much cause they don't know. When you do know, you won't be thinking and talking about random shit and you will be DOING, not THINKING.
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Harvey, it seems like you're trying to find an excuse to not squat and strength train, when you are obviously not strong. You just want an excuse to jump and diet to look good. Maybe I'm wrong, but you'd definitely benefit from focusing on strength training while still jumping 1-3x a week.
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Harvey, it seems like you're trying to find an excuse to not squat and strength train, when you are obviously not strong. You just want an excuse to jump and diet to look good. Maybe I'm wrong, but you'd definitely benefit from focusing on strength training while still jumping 1-3x a week.
It's just because recently I've been doing a lot of squat/DL work with minimal jump work and saw virtually no VJ results. Yeah, I got stronger, but that's not what I'm after at the end of the day. I can't afford to squat for months on end with no VJ improvement. From what I've noticed, more plyometrics AS WELL AS squatting regularly will get me the results as well as some strength gains.
Currently, I'm planning on doing this:
No. Plyo Sessions 4
No. Strength Sessions 3
No. Power Sessions 1
No. Core Sessions 3
No. Flexibility Sessions 6
No. Recovery Sessions 6
I don't want an excuse to jump. I don't care how I look. The low BFP simply was common in virtually all good jumpers. Looks is a bonus. If jumping and losing fat is going to get me results now, then that's what I'm after.
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A low bodyfat is an indicator for some other stuff that helps, endocrine efficiency, better CNS and so on and so forth. So when you see a guy with a low bodyfat being athletic, there are more reasons behind that than just the low bodyfat alone.
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@Harvey: You can do whatever you want. The fact that you are willing to do what others have tried with little success instead of what others have tried with lots of success tells a lot about either the quality of your thinking or your priorities. I wish you good luck either way.
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A guy with a 265 pound max squat is saying squatting didn't help him?
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A guy with a 265 pound max squat is saying squatting didn't help him?
Maybe he weighs 100 lbs.
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I think an important point is being missed in so far as single leg vs double leg jumping is concerned.
It's commonly stated that squat/bw ratios are less important for single leg jumping and that low bodyweight is of more importance for single leg jumping.
Realize this comparison is usually made between STANDING double leg jumping and RUNNING single leg jumping.
If we compared standing single leg jumping vs standing double leg jumping the difference would go away.
In laymans terms we can remember that any running jump involves (a) absorbing/translating force (speed) and (b) making force/speed quickly. A standing jump starts with speed==0 and thus only has part (b).
Obviously, the approach needs to produce speed and thus also requires strength. Indeed strength/bw will help more in for a 2-step approach single leg jump than a 4-step and 6-step and so forth. However, if you don't constrain the run-in length on a single leg jump you remove one of the benefits of strength/bw from the single leg approach jump. We recently submitted a paper on the optimal atmospheric long jump model.... essentially it's a sprint model with the parameter for drive phase removed. Because this parameter is removed it's not surprising that more athletes who have a more sleight build tend to perform well in the approach single leg jump. Don't make the mistake of assuming it's necessary to forgo strength and focus on losing body-weight to achieve a high single leg approach jump.... Sleight builds succeed, but success does not necessarily make a sleight build. Additionally, you can find great counterexamples in the decathlon, athletes of all build who achieve near elite marks in all types of jumps.
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As far as weight loss, I advise most athletes against long-term significant weight manipulation. Obviously, being obese is a bad idea. But if you are training hard and have any type of energy system work in your training (volleyball games, basketball games, sprinting tempo work, etc) you should achieve a manageable weight without intentionally restricting food, with the one caveat that you shouldn't eat complete junk sweets or drink alcohol. Athletes with no energy system work (Olympic lifters, jumpers who don't also run the 4x100) might have to eat slightly under their appetite to achieve optimal weight, but that depends on the individual.
Short term weight manipulation definitely has advantages for all athletes (a semi-fast the night before high-jump competition and a little dehydration the day of the event can pay dividends in a competition; especially when foolish competitors do silly things like carb-load the day before), but trying to lose substantial amounts of bodyweight can have unintended consequences that usually outweigh the benefits. Essentially, if you are fat, train hard, or don't eat completely horrible, then theirs a 95% chance you will lose weight. When you stop losing weight from that prescription then it's time to get stronger.
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A standing jump starts with speed==0 and thus only has part (b).
That simply is not true. It would be true for a paused standing VJ. But in a regular one, when you quickly bend down you HAVE to amortizate that as well. So it's not completely 0 speed.
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A standing jump starts with speed==0 and thus only has part (b).
That simply is not true. It would be true for a paused standing VJ. But in a regular one, when you quickly bend down you HAVE to amortizate that as well. So it's not completely 0 speed.
Layman's terms. Speed == Horizontal speed. It's a long jump model.