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Performance Area => Strength, Power, Reactivity, & Speed Discussion => Topic started by: Gary on June 18, 2011, 08:58:06 am
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I respond poorly to linear periodization, but respond incredibly well to concentrated loading. I've been banging my head against almost 2xBW high bar squat for months now so I'm trying a full Smolov+Feduleyev to get beyond that and hit almost 2.5xBW.
I also recently discovered the benefits of jump training and made surprising gains in just a few weeks. Smolov+Feduleyev restricts the jump training to the switching phase between the base phase and the intensive phase. I'm a little worried about doing too much besides squatting during the other phases, but I've kept in the low intensity jump stuff. I figured this would be a good time to incorporate easy unilateral jumping into my squat warm up. I either do unilateral cone/obstacle hops or unilateral tuck jumps.
Are there any other recommendations? Other drills that I could be doing now? Input on what should happen during the switching phase is also welcome.
I've gained 50 lbs and 40 lbs from the base phase before. But I never bothered with the switching phase or with jump training at all. Now I want to do the base, switching and intensive with the intention of getting at least 80 lbs all together. That would put me in the 2.5xBW range and I'd like my hops to have increased along with my squat.
Note: I'm not really doing anything else in training right now. I may bench and pull up once per week, but that's about it. I want to devote as much recovery as possible to squatting.
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damn, you have freakishly long arms.
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damn, you have freakishly long arms.
Yet I can do this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aXO_1oO__U
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My arms would go forward form the 1st inch of squat descent.
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My arms would go forward form the 1st inch of squat descent.
I managed a triple with that weight the next day too. It's balance and flexibility right now as opposed to "core strength". If you balance right, the torso stays inline and the abs and low back don't have to work especially hard to keep you from toppling. I find it reinforces good movement patterns for maintaining a near-vertical torso in the high bar and front squats. It also promotes upper back and shoulder flexibility. Great warm up move.
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So does anyone have any ideas about that switching phase? How many days per week? How much volume?? Which movements? I was thinking...
Monday:
SVJ w/ Power Jumper x 3 reps for 3 sets
SBJ w Power Jumper x 3 reps for 3 sets
Wednesday:
Unilateral Cone Hops
Unilateral Bounding over distance
Friday:
Depth Jumps to height target x 4 reps for 3-5 sets
(either from 18" or from 12" with a jumper band like JackW recommended)
Weighted Jumps
I like both unilateral and bilateral tuck jumps as warm ups. I probably won't have barbell access, but if I do I think some heavy eccentric would be good too.
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One thing that works very well with the power jumper is complexing jumps with it on, then off, so you get the immediate potentiation effect from the added resistance. You could easily keep the same set up you have there, but add a set of unloaded jumps in between each set, after a brief rest. These sets should be higher than normal, giving you a better training effect overall.
Another thing that works well during the switching phase of smolov, especially when jumping is the goal, is to use depth drops in place of the heavy eccentric work. You can play with the volume to suit your needs, but thats a heck of an eccentric overload, just more applicable to the goal of a higher vertical jump.
Thats a great job on that clean grip over head squat btw.
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Just a note, if I were you Gary, I would absolutely continue squatting during the switching phase, maybe 3x a week.
Of course I mean light squatting
But 15 days of no squatting in a row (base cycle ends on a saturday, next cycle starts 3 mondays later) will DEFINITELY make you lose a lot of neural strength in the squat, especially after getting in 12 high-volume squat sessions in just 3 weeks.
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I respond poorly to linear periodization, but respond incredibly well to concentrated loading. I've been banging my head against almost 2xBW high bar squat for months now so I'm trying a full Smolov+Feduleyev to get beyond that and hit almost 2.5xBW.
same, all of my best jumping has come during/after concentrated loading blocks... linear periodization is bad bad bad, i wrote some simple blog article for people, "the ratio method", which is supposed to help get people out of that mindset, introduces more of a concurrent system in simpler terms.
concentrate/high frequency blocks are the best ways to put on serious strength imo.. brozknowz is a great example of it... this forum has plenty of success stories from high frequency training, including myself/arowe/lance/dreyth/tychver/damienz etc list goes on.
I also recently discovered the benefits of jump training and made surprising gains in just a few weeks. Smolov+Feduleyev restricts the jump training to the switching phase between the base phase and the intensive phase. I'm a little worried about doing too much besides squatting during the other phases, but I've kept in the low intensity jump stuff. I figured this would be a good time to incorporate easy unilateral jumping into my squat warm up. I either do unilateral cone/obstacle hops or unilateral tuck jumps.
great, don't be one of those people to take out "impact work".. you need impacts in order to be good at, well, impacts... just keep them mostly low intensity for now, ie light rebounding exercises like jump rope, lateral barrier jumps (MR), MR halftucks, and definitely sprints... some good unilateral rebounding work comes from "light single leg sprints", any time you go real vertical, ie uni-tucks, you're going to experience alot of force so, just be careful to do it when you feel like you're firing properly, you don't want any "shutdown" occurring while trying to stabilize unilaterally, you can get away with it with bilateral rebounds though.
Are there any other recommendations? Other drills that I could be doing now? Input on what should happen during the switching phase is also welcome.
well, if you're really interested in jumping, i would incorporate it AT LEAST 1x/week.. but it doesn't have to be max right now.. save that for switch phase and beyond.. some simple submax jumping will help you maintain that efficiency better than no jumping at all.. but if you feel great, go for some max jumps.. one thing i've found is that alot of people sell themselves short on high freq/concentrated blocks, they think it's going to just kill them etc, when in fact, jumping can improve quite a bit... some of my best jumps have come on days where i didn't feel too great during a high freq/concentrated block, but I always force max jumps, not the wisest thing but im addicted so, submax dont cut it for me... so ya just get in some submax jumps 1x/week, if you feel great though, get some good jumps in...
i like to split them into multiple sessions if im going to get actual jumping in, for example:
day 1: session 1: jumping, submax or max whatever.. quality session, not quantity
day 1: session 2: rebounding/light sprint warmup etc, low level reactive work is done here, quantity and to break that sweat........ then lifting
so ya those exercises i mentioned before are good, just use alot of variety to keep yourself from feeling stale etc.. mix it up and have fun, but i'd always warmup with some impact work before the smolov sessions.. it loosens you up, reduces risk of injury, but also wakes you up better for a more productive smolov session.
I've gained 50 lbs and 40 lbs from the base phase before. But I never bothered with the switching phase or with jump training at all. Now I want to do the base, switching and intensive with the intention of getting at least 80 lbs all together. That would put me in the 2.5xBW range and I'd like my hops to have increased along with my squat.
Note: I'm not really doing anything else in training right now. I may bench and pull up once per week, but that's about it. I want to devote as much recovery as possible to squatting.
that's cool, just no straining on pullups/bench, that taps into your recovery for smolov.. use more of a 'submax effort' method with upper.. straining with upper body exercises causes more cns fatigue than lower body imo.
cool man get those gains.. just stay consistent with the reactive/impact work, one of the biggest aspects of jumping is "overall fitness", have to stay in shape and easily absorb those forces during the plant/landings etc..
peace man
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Just a note, if I were you Gary, I would absolutely continue squatting during the switching phase, maybe 3x a week.
Of course I mean light squatting
But 15 days of no squatting in a row (base cycle ends on a saturday, next cycle starts 3 mondays later) will DEFINITELY make you lose a lot of neural strength in the squat, especially after getting in 12 high-volume squat sessions in just 3 weeks.
x2, never go 72 hours without squatting imo.. submax/rep effort is better than no effort, that's for sure..
neural gains are still physiological, people forget that..
dreyth is a smolov expert, so his advice is highly respected :F
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Just a note, if I were you Gary, I would absolutely continue squatting during the switching phase, maybe 3x a week.
Of course I mean light squatting
But 15 days of no squatting in a row (base cycle ends on a saturday, next cycle starts 3 mondays later) will DEFINITELY make you lose a lot of neural strength in the squat, especially after getting in 12 high-volume squat sessions in just 3 weeks.
x2, never go 72 hours without squatting imo.. submax/rep effort is better than no effort, that's for sure..
neural gains are still physiological, people forget that..
dreyth is a smolov expert, so his advice is highly respected :F
haha lol, did smolov jr for 9 weeks straight and i'm planning on doing it again after the summer.
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Is it Smolov JR the "Smolov program - Base mesocycle" in here http://joeskopec.com/smolov.html ?
Anyway, did you put in your real 1RM with the program or a little less than your true 1RM? For example, if I'm to use it, I think I'll insert a lower 1RM number than my real 1RM (say - 135 instead of 140-145).
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What is the average gain / week for any smolov cycle? Experiences?
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http://kbforum.dragondoor.com/showthread.php?t=34110&p=153212
http://tnation.t-nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_strength/smolov_experience_thread_for_all
With the actual Smolov base phase I went from 245 to 295 back when I weighed 160 and before I ever tried a belt or knew what low bar was. Then I used Smolov a few months later to take me from 335 low bar + belt to 375 while still weighing under 170.
When people talk about the full Smolov, they mean the actual Smolov four-week base phase plus the switching plus the five-week Feduleyev peaking phase. Poor Feduleyev's name is rarely ever mentioned though according to Pavel's seminal article (http://www.dragondoor.com/articles/another-russian-super-cycle/default.aspx) Feduleyev is the one who designed the last phase. I tend to call it the Smolov-Feduleyev when I'm talking about both phases. There is an intro phase that is optional and recommended for those coming off a layoff (I tend to lose 10-15% if I don't squat for a few weeks myself, but get that back within three weeks of squatting).
From what I've read base phase yields 40 lbs +/- 10 lbs and intensive phase yields 40 +/- 20.
According to Pavel:
...the base mesocycle delivers a 10-30kg gain for big boys and 5-7,5kg for lighter lifters.
The intense mesocycle is another cruel and unusual stretch of four weeks. It is good for another 15-20kg squat gain
So ~20-65 lbs in the base or 10-15 lbs if you're tiny (thought I gained 50 lbs when I was 160 squatting 245). ~30-45 lbs in the intensive phase. I've never done the whole thing, but 80-100 lbs gain seems to be normal for those who have.
I want to point out that this type of concentrated loading is the only thing that's worked for me since I made my noobie gain from 135 squat to 245. This leads me to believe that at least in my case it's best to do this kind of thing once per year and then just work on maintaining that strength, bringing up other qualities and then making another big gain the following year.
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And thank you very much for the feedback.
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Is it Smolov JR the "Smolov program - Base mesocycle" in here http://joeskopec.com/smolov.html ?
Anyway, did you put in your real 1RM with the program or a little less than your true 1RM? For example, if I'm to use it, I think I'll insert a lower 1RM number than my real 1RM (say - 135 instead of 140-145).
I used a tested 1RM, 2 days prior to starting the program.
Smolov JR = Smolov Base Mesocyle with a slightly different rep scheme to make it slightly easier.
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Is it Smolov JR the "Smolov program - Base mesocycle" in here http://joeskopec.com/smolov.html ?
Anyway, did you put in your real 1RM with the program or a little less than your true 1RM? For example, if I'm to use it, I think I'll insert a lower 1RM number than my real 1RM (say - 135 instead of 140-145).
I used a tested 1RM, 2 days prior to starting the program.
Smolov JR = Smolov Base Mesocyle with a slightly different rep scheme to make it slightly easier.
Smolov Sr.
4s x 9r/s = 36 reps
5s x 7r/s = 35 reps
7s x 5r/s = 35 reps
10s x 3r/s = 30 reps
Smolov Jr.
6s x 6r/s = 36 reps
7s x 5r/s = 35 reps
8s x 4r/s = 32 reps
10s x 3r/s =30 reps
Jr. doesn't take you into as high a rep range, but gets you to the same or very close to the same volume. I found Jr does not work nearly as well for squats, but works great for bench. 9-rep and 7-rep sets are great for legs, not so much for upper body. I gained twice with Sr. for squats and failed to gain with Jr. for squats, even though I made it through the program. But Jr. worked twice for bench and failed to get through Sr. for bench.
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same, all of my best jumping has come during/after concentrated loading blocks... linear periodization is bad bad bad, i wrote some simple blog article for people, "the ratio method", which is supposed to help get people out of that mindset, introduces more of a concurrent system in simpler terms.
concentrate/high frequency blocks are the best ways to put on serious strength imo.. brozknowz is a great example of it... this forum has plenty of success stories from high frequency training, including myself/arowe/lance/dreyth/tychver/damienz etc list goes on.
High frequency training is awesome. There's a couple of really successful clubs produced a lot of good junior weightlifters in NZ based on russian/german programming and high frequency. They have the kids doing double sessions 3-4 days a week (5-6 days in total) in the school holidays after a few months training.
great, don't be one of those people to take out "impact work".. you need impacts in order to be good at, well, impacts... just keep them mostly low intensity for now, ie light rebounding exercises like jump rope, lateral barrier jumps (MR), MR halftucks, and definitely sprints... some good unilateral rebounding work comes from "light single leg sprints", any time you go real vertical, ie uni-tucks, you're going to experience alot of force so, just be careful to do it when you feel like you're firing properly, you don't want any "shutdown" occurring while trying to stabilize unilaterally, you can get away with it with bilateral rebounds though.
With Smolov, don't do any high intensity stuff beyond a a few decent SVJ/RVJ attempts on the off days. However, low impact explosive work in the warmup is absolutely essential if you're not just a lifter. Hell, for the powerlifters Feduleyev prescribed high catch powersnatches and low impact explosive work as warmup.
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Are there any other recommendations? Other drills that I could be doing now? Input on what should happen during the switching phase is also welcome.
Lots of submax jumping and explosive lifting. Once you've bounced back a bit get some more serious jump training in and move into shock training.
i like to split them into multiple sessions if im going to get actual jumping in, for example:
day 1: session 1: jumping, submax or max whatever.. quality session, not quantity
day 1: session 2: rebounding/light sprint warmup etc, low level reactive work is done here, quantity and to break that sweat........ then lifting
Yah it's often split like that in weightlifting too. Or a lighter session in the morning to loosen up slash prime for a later bigger session.
so ya those exercises i mentioned before are good, just use alot of variety to keep yourself from feeling stale etc.. mix it up and have fun, but i'd always warmup with some impact work before the smolov sessions.. it loosens you up, reduces risk of injury, but also wakes you up better for a more productive smolov session.
Yup. I basically did random jumping drills, mostly RFI stuff, quick dynamic warmup, an oly lift up to a submax single, SMOLOV SETS, puke :D
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You need to eat something every like three hours or so when going balls out with a high frequency and high volume lifting routine. PWO nutrition is more impotant. The window for rapid absorbtion after training is something like 30-60 minutes long. Take food or a shake with carbs in to the gym unless you're ABSOUTELY sure you're going to be able to eat when you get home. A lot of serious lifters end up snacking between exercises!
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I've been alternating unilateral cone hops with unilateral tuck jumps to combine unilateral work with some reactive work in my warm ups. I also do bilateral tuck jumps every session.
I find that the day of triples makes me increasingly pumped as I go through the sets. I think that would be a good day to add some standing vertical jumps. Last time by the fifth set I felt like I could jump through the roof. I usually do unilateral leg curls after the squats, but the triples day comes right after the last squat day with no break. May be good to jump instead of doing leg curls again.
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About the post wo nutrition... it takes about an hour for a significant amount of whey protein (and even casein) to enter your bloodstream after ingesting it. Therefore, it would make sense to take it at the start of you workout, and then when your finished (presumably in about an hour), it begins recovering your muscles pretty much immediately.
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Interesting, although I had protein powder coming through my esophagus while squatting, so...
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I actually will have a three-week block during which I'll be traveling immediately after the Base Phase Test Day. So my switching period will be three weeks instead of the prescribed two. I can easily bring along my power jumper on the road and concentrate on jumping and a few plyo drills while traveling. But three weeks is a bit of a long time between the base and intensive. So I'm guessing I should definitely find a place to squat when I can and get in at least one squat session per week.
During one of those weeks I'll be in Las Vegas on business. I hope to be able to hit up Average Broz for a session.