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Performance Area => Strength, Power, Reactivity, & Speed Discussion => Topic started by: $ick3nin.v3nd3tta on June 28, 2011, 03:34:01 pm

Title: Max Out on Squats Every Day: John Broz Method?.
Post by: $ick3nin.v3nd3tta on June 28, 2011, 03:34:01 pm
Max Out on Squats Every Day
by Bret Contreras – 6/28/2011.


Can't argue with the results.


Original Link: http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/max_out_on_squats_every_day


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6mRbQG-PL4



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WK7m6I5m6gY



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxqquz4WeTk



Anyone have any thoughts on this 'balls to the wall' training method?.
Title: Re: Max Out on Squats Every Day: John Broz Method?.
Post by: Gary on June 28, 2011, 04:24:36 pm
I wanted this to work for me so bad. But it didn't.

Every single day may have simply been too much for me. I've succeeded a couple times with Smolov, which is high intensity and volume, but "only" squatting four times per week, not six or seven.

I've actually taken a page from Broz's method and preceded my Smolov volume by working up to a heavy single, then using the Smolov portion as the back off volume. Normally I'd consider combining such methods suicide, but when I thought about it, it made sense to try.

It's been working great. I've been setting fairly easy PRs on the warm up heavy single twice per week! I'm in my last week of the Smolov base phase and today I just set an all-time totally raw (no belt or wraps) high bar squat. And it moved fast!

So the principles are probably sound, but you may want to tweak frequency based on age. I probably just jumped into all too fast the last time I tried it. Might have done great if I just squatted every other day and kept it at that frequency for a while. Like John Broz says about Smolov, there's nothing magical about the exact number of sets and reps; it's just the volume and intensity and frequency are headed in the right direction.

I would add that volume, intensity and frequency should probably all be waved throughout the year with only occasional bouts during which all three are insanely high.
Title: Re: Max Out on Squats Every Day: John Broz Method?.
Post by: $ick3nin.v3nd3tta on July 18, 2011, 01:42:58 pm
Heavy Lifting, No Rest, Candy: the Bulgarian Method.



Original Link: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304070104576397543601842556.html
Title: Re: Max Out on Squats Every Day: John Broz Method?.
Post by: LBSS on July 18, 2011, 01:45:04 pm
Heavy Lifting, No Rest, Candy, Steroids: the Bulgarian Method.



Original Link: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304070104576397543601842556.html

fixed.
Title: Re: Max Out on Squats Every Day: John Broz Method?.
Post by: LBSS on July 18, 2011, 01:46:17 pm
can't argue with the results. also can't argue with high-quality one-on-one coaching, selecting cream-of-the-crop athletes and perfecting technique before embarking on anything that intense.
Title: Re: Max Out on Squats Every Day: John Broz Method?.
Post by: LanceSTS on July 18, 2011, 04:45:12 pm

  Excellent training method, auto regulation and high frequency combined rather than pre determined percentages that dont work.  It takes a while to adapt, especially for lifters who havent been training for a good while and even then it can be modified to suit individual needs.  Dont copy the exact program, take some of the principles and use them according to individual capabilities.

  Alternating days of maxing on front squat and back squat so that each is done 3x a week, and taking one complete day off has worked very well for me in the past, the only issue is it doesnt leave a lot of time for other accessory work like upper body.  But if increasing your squat in a hurry is a big priority, it can serve you well.

  Simply ramping up to a max and backing off for a few sets of 2-5 reps is an excellent way to train the big lifts regardless, even if its done 3x a week, youre doing what you are capable of that day which is areg in itself.  Beginners will have a hard time with it and would be better served with something more pre determined, mostly because they dont know their abilities well enough yet to make the volume/ weight decisions on their own in a  day to day plan.
Title: Re: Max Out on Squats Every Day: John Broz Method?.
Post by: LBSS on July 18, 2011, 05:42:40 pm
and, if i could just add, beginners will have a hard time with that because beginners' (and many intermediates', i'm certainly included in this) form is unstable at best and shitty at worst.

working up to a max can be dangerous, i see nasty-looking shit all the time with people at my gym, even trying for heavy sets of five or whatever.

not disagreeing with lance, just saying, don't be stupid and know your limits before you try to push them.
Title: Re: Max Out on Squats Every Day: John Broz Method?.
Post by: RJ Nelsen on July 18, 2011, 08:18:17 pm
I wouldn't recommend maxing out every day, but working with 80-85% for triples and doubles is definitely doable, provided you eat, sleep, and pace yourself. I've been training my overhead press daily for a few months now and the results have been spectacular. That having been said, I'd dinged myself up pretty good in the process. My words of advice to anyone who wanted to train daily would go something like this:

-Eat plenty and sleep 8 hours per night
-Do 10-20 total reps @ 80-85% per day
-Don't go to failure
-Stretch at least once per day
-Prepare to work around minor injuries/tweaks
-Take a day off if you really need to

Once you get past the first couple of months, training becomes as automatic as breathing. 
Title: Re: Max Out on Squats Every Day: John Broz Method?.
Post by: adarqui on July 18, 2011, 11:28:55 pm
maxing every day is fine imo, but, you have to define "maxing".. true maxes, psyched up? nope.. our maxes fluctuate slightly, every day, even varying depending on the time of day etc. As long as you "stay relaxed" & workup to training maxes, not "competition level maxes" (psyche ups/grinders etC), then it's fine imo. So the max lifts need to be done in a "relaxed environment", with emphasis on decent rep speed to avoid grinding the reps which causes too much cns fatigue.

how long a block you do, maxing every day, is the question.. I was able to go 2 months pretty consistent, either working up to a max single or hitting heavy rep work (5-20 reps), each day.. after 2 months though, I was pretty fried.. i'm starting to rebound out pretty well from april/may and half of june, which were highly concentrated.
 
oh sh*t RJ posted WTF.

 :wowthatwasnutswtf:
Title: Re: Max Out on Squats Every Day: John Broz Method?.
Post by: Raptor on July 19, 2011, 05:17:09 am
I kind of work up to a daily max in the squat every day, but one day I'm doing it with the belt on (+10 kg or so) and the other without the belt on. I never go to a true 1RM just probably ~90%. Then I do only one back off set for 5 reps with a heavy weight one day and the other I do two sets with half of that daily max for speed (2 sets of 8 reps).

And so far I haven't felt overtrained or burned (I would be if I was playing a lot of ball in the park while doing all this though).
Title: Re: Max Out on Squats Every Day: John Broz Method?.
Post by: $ick3nin.v3nd3tta on July 19, 2011, 11:57:08 am
Just thought I would post this.

Crazy.


From NYT:

Quote
The concept of “old” is mutable in many of the sports we follow. The swimmer Michael Phelps, perhaps the greatest U.S. Olympian ever, climbed out of the water after a race a couple of months ago and said to reporters, “I feel like an old man coming out of the pool sometimes.” Phelps, who turns 26 at the end of the month, is indeed past his prime, but mainly because of the course he and his coach set. Phelps trained six consecutive years over one period without taking a single day off, a regimen that produced 16 medals at the last two summer Olympics, including eight golds in 2008 in Beijing. He is stronger than he has ever been and just about as lean — 197 pounds as opposed to the 193 he weighed at his first Olympics, when he was 15. If all it took was physical attributes, Phelps could probably match his accomplishments from Beijing. But he can no longer summon the focus and motivation to train like he did. Phelps plans to swim in London in 2012, but in fewer events. “There’s a volitional and psychological window,” Phelps’s coach, Bob Bowman, told me. “It closes. A lot of it has to do with the effort you put in up to that point.”

A version of the same syndrome — in the vernacular, “burnout” — may be afflicting Tiger Woods, who looks like a very old 35-year-old in a sport in which 35 isn’t that old. Yes, Woods has suffered numerous injuries as well as an incalculable impact on his performance from chaos in his personal life. But it is also true that he has been hyperfocused on golf for an unusually long time — in essence, a professional since he was 2, when he carried a tiny golf bag onto the set of “The Mike Douglas Show” and, with Bob Hope looking over his shoulder, demonstrated his swing. Lots of things are no doubt troubling Woods, but 33 years of high-intensity golf in 35 years of life is quite likely part of the problem.
Title: Re: Max Out on Squats Every Day: John Broz Method?.
Post by: adarqui on July 19, 2011, 01:32:08 pm
Just thought I would post this.

Crazy.


From NYT:

Quote
The concept of “old” is mutable in many of the sports we follow. The swimmer Michael Phelps, perhaps the greatest U.S. Olympian ever, climbed out of the water after a race a couple of months ago and said to reporters, “I feel like an old man coming out of the pool sometimes.” Phelps, who turns 26 at the end of the month, is indeed past his prime, but mainly because of the course he and his coach set. Phelps trained six consecutive years over one period without taking a single day off, a regimen that produced 16 medals at the last two summer Olympics, including eight golds in 2008 in Beijing. He is stronger than he has ever been and just about as lean — 197 pounds as opposed to the 193 he weighed at his first Olympics, when he was 15. If all it took was physical attributes, Phelps could probably match his accomplishments from Beijing. But he can no longer summon the focus and motivation to train like he did. Phelps plans to swim in London in 2012, but in fewer events. “There’s a volitional and psychological window,” Phelps’s coach, Bob Bowman, told me. “It closes. A lot of it has to do with the effort you put in up to that point.”

A version of the same syndrome — in the vernacular, “burnout” — may be afflicting Tiger Woods, who looks like a very old 35-year-old in a sport in which 35 isn’t that old. Yes, Woods has suffered numerous injuries as well as an incalculable impact on his performance from chaos in his personal life. But it is also true that he has been hyperfocused on golf for an unusually long time — in essence, a professional since he was 2, when he carried a tiny golf bag onto the set of “The Mike Douglas Show” and, with Bob Hope looking over his shoulder, demonstrated his swing. Lots of things are no doubt troubling Woods, but 33 years of high-intensity golf in 35 years of life is quite likely part of the problem.

ya of course intense training over such a long period can shorten your athletic lifespan, but, in regards to burnout, alot of it is just mental.. i mean when you are so successful, winning so many gold medals/championships etc, it's hard to maintain that drive you had prior to winning - i imagine.. takes a very special athlete to keep winning, year after year, and approaching the game/event with the same intensity as they did when they were "hungry" and thirsting for respect/becoming a champion..

federer and jordan come to mind.. even though they had their setbacks/obstacles, their drive to win every single time they go out, puts them on that next level..

if you want to become great at basketball, you practice every day.. if you want to achieve peak potential at distance running, you run every day.. if you want to become great at producing force, you practice it every day in some form or another. Sure you can utilize less frequent strength training ideologies but, at some point, in order to take that next step, you'll have to dabble in the high frequency realm, it separates the men from the boys.
Title: Re: Max Out on Squats Every Day: John Broz Method?.
Post by: Raptor on July 19, 2011, 02:26:22 pm
Just thought I would post this.

Crazy.


From NYT:

Quote
The concept of “old” is mutable in many of the sports we follow. The swimmer Michael Phelps, perhaps the greatest U.S. Olympian ever, climbed out of the water after a race a couple of months ago and said to reporters, “I feel like an old man coming out of the pool sometimes.” Phelps, who turns 26 at the end of the month, is indeed past his prime, but mainly because of the course he and his coach set. Phelps trained six consecutive years over one period without taking a single day off, a regimen that produced 16 medals at the last two summer Olympics, including eight golds in 2008 in Beijing. He is stronger than he has ever been and just about as lean — 197 pounds as opposed to the 193 he weighed at his first Olympics, when he was 15. If all it took was physical attributes, Phelps could probably match his accomplishments from Beijing. But he can no longer summon the focus and motivation to train like he did. Phelps plans to swim in London in 2012, but in fewer events. “There’s a volitional and psychological window,” Phelps’s coach, Bob Bowman, told me. “It closes. A lot of it has to do with the effort you put in up to that point.”

A version of the same syndrome — in the vernacular, “burnout” — may be afflicting Tiger Woods, who looks like a very old 35-year-old in a sport in which 35 isn’t that old. Yes, Woods has suffered numerous injuries as well as an incalculable impact on his performance from chaos in his personal life. But it is also true that he has been hyperfocused on golf for an unusually long time — in essence, a professional since he was 2, when he carried a tiny golf bag onto the set of “The Mike Douglas Show” and, with Bob Hope looking over his shoulder, demonstrated his swing. Lots of things are no doubt troubling Woods, but 33 years of high-intensity golf in 35 years of life is quite likely part of the problem.

ya of course intense training over such a long period can shorten your athletic lifespan, but, in regards to burnout, alot of it is just mental.. i mean when you are so successful, winning so many gold medals/championships etc, it's hard to maintain that drive you had prior to winning - i imagine.. takes a very special athlete to keep winning, year after year, and approaching the game/event with the same intensity as they did when they were "hungry" and thirsting for respect/becoming a champion..

federer and jordan come to mind.. even though they had their setbacks/obstacles, their drive to win every single time they go out, puts them on that next level..

if you want to become great at basketball, you practice every day.. if you want to achieve peak potential at distance running, you run every day.. if you want to become great at producing force, you practice it every day in some form or another. Sure you can utilize less frequent strength training ideologies but, at some point, in order to take that next step, you'll have to dabble in the high frequency realm, it separates the men from the boys.


Thank you sir. My thoughts exactly.
Title: Re: Max Out on Squats Every Day: John Broz Method?.
Post by: LBSS on July 19, 2011, 02:37:24 pm
long-term steady-state training and technique training are nothing like strength training. it's very, very different to swim every day or to make 1000 jumpers than to work up to a daily max squat.

if you want to get fast, do you think you should sprint ME every day? i mean, i defer to adarq and lance on this because they know 80 billion times more than i do, but that shit doesn't make sense.
Title: Re: Max Out on Squats Every Day: John Broz Method?.
Post by: LanceSTS on July 19, 2011, 03:20:08 pm
  I think the hard part to get around is the "one rep max" thing, it sounds much more intensive than it really is.  Its not a competition maximum, and to be done at a good speed as should all of the compound lifts, but thinking in terms of "progressively heavier singles" would really be more accurate. 

 I have done all kinds of different things in training and programs like smolov that have no degree of autoregulation at all are much more draining and fatiguing than working up to a daily max and backing off for a few rep sets.  There are construction workers, loggers, etc. whose daily requirements would make this program seem like a cake walk, its just a matter of time and adaptation. 

  imo its just a matter of trimming off all the fat and getting to the meat of what you really want to accomplish.  When you cut out tons of assistance exercises, tons of sub maximal work, and other things that dont contribute as directly to your goal, you have a lot more room for recovery from something like this. I have run 5x5 templates that were harder to recover from than training this way, and not nearly as effective at increasing 1rm.  much more stress to the tissue with the 5x5 and much better hypertrophy gains. 


 One more thing, when training this way, its not like you come in each day and pr, that may happen very early on but what Ive seen is you hit a pr of say 450, then the next day you work up to ~450 again, the next day, 450 again etc.   Finally in a week or so, you hit 460.  You have been squatting at very near this poundage almost like a habitual event, its not a "dangerous" or rare event, that you have to get nervous or amped up about.  I really think that is somewhat safer to train this way if training in a lower rep range and 1rm are important to you, people who get hurt maxing out are people who dont do it much and arent prepared for it.  This was always one of Louie Simmons big pet peeves with other pl training methods, even though they would rotate the exercise, he strongly believed that you needed to do heavy singles to be able to lift heavy singles safely.


 Best thing to do is,( a. if you have been training long enough to even consider this and cant still make linear day to day progress on a 3x a week full body schedule), try it for a while, just start out eeeeeeeaasy.  I have some of my athletes go up to a single, then do back offs with trips, but they train 3-4 a week, so I add a rep set at the end.  IMO that is even more effective for a majority of team sport athletes, as hypertrophy is important for them as well.