Adarq.org
Performance Area => Strength, Power, Reactivity, & Speed Discussion => Topic started by: fast does lie on July 06, 2012, 05:32:39 am
-
I've been pretty much squatting and deadlifting at around 80-90% of RM almost every day for the last month.
Is this near optimal strategy?
-
If you make measurable progress quickly the strategy is good (10-15 lbs per week would be a good bench-mark for you). If not, it is not. Strategies are rarely optimal.
-
Wow, 10-15lb a week is a very tough gain. But i have probably gained 40 lbs in the last 2 months. And that is with a messed up knee.
Did you gain weight?
-
YEah, around 15 lbs of weight in last few months. But I also started taking creatine in the last 2-3 weeks.
Good that you started gaining a couple kilos. However, an average increase of 5 lbs per week with a weight gain and taking creatine tells me that your strategy is everything but optimal. Do less volume and push yourself to PRs more often, at least 2 days per week. And make sure that you are in an optimally recuperated state on those days (enough food, sleep, rest time). Do sets of 5 btw. and keep eating while doing that. You are on your way!
-
Ah I see. My normal routine would go something like this:
Goblet squat as warm up 10 x 55lbs
regular squat 10 x 135, 5 x 185, 3 x 225, 1 x 245, 1 x 255
deadlifts 10 x 135, 7 x 155, 3 x 185, 3 x 205, 2 x 225, 1 x 245
So perhaps I should change it to something like this? :
squat [4 x 135] [4 x 185] [2 x 225] [2 x 245] [1 x 265] [1 x 275] 3-4x per week?
deadlift [5 x 135] [5 x 155] [3 x 185] [1 x 225] [1 x 255]
and striving for PR's atleast 2 sessions?
The reason I focused more on volume was b/c somebody told me that's the way to go if I am more focused on basketball/explosiveness rather than bodybuilding.
Just do 3 work sets with 5 rep with the same weight. Rest a day or two, repeat with 5 lbs more on the bar, rest, repeat...
Training three times per week would be optimal right now.
-
I think we might not be on the same page here regarding the concept of "training".
"Training" is the planned process, by which measurable progress in skill is accomplished over time. In this context every single training session has a definite use. For a novice this definite use should always be to provide a stimulus for adaptation. One then rests until the adaptation has occurred and once this is, one got stronger.
To apply a new training stimulus, one cannot do the same again because the body already adapted to this. Therefore the stimulus needs to be varied in order to force further adaptation. The component of the work-out to vary here is weight on the bar.
Intermediate and advanced trainees cannot per definition make measurable progress in strength with a single work-out. For them work needs to be accumulated over a certain time in order to drive adaptation and make progress. The training stimulus then does not any longer consist of a single training session, but for example a week or even a month of training. They therefore can have a meaningful repetition maximum (rm), that has the attribute of being moderately stable. The same is not true for a novice. A novice does not have a repetition maximum that is moderately stable because every training session induces changes in this rm. Therefore you can forget about this concept altogether because it does not apply to you.
What you need to do is increase weight on the bar every time. And you start with a weight that you can do for 3 sets of 5 reps, in which you do not have to grind out the last set.
-
Ah thank you for the clarification. So i need to figure out what my 3 sets of 5 max is first and go from there?
no.
start with 3 x 5 at a weight you know you can handle with good form. say, 3 x 5 x 165. then add 10 pounds every workout until you can't anymore -- i.e., until you get to a workout where you can't hit all your reps. then start adding 5 pounds every workout. if you miss reps in a workout, repeat that weight in the next workout. work out 3 times a week. eat enough, sleep enough. once you really stall, then think about switching things up.
there's no point in getting cute until you're actually a little bit strong.
-
^ the same goes for DL? Is it better to do DL and squat on same day or alternate?
focus on the squat. if you want to DL, try working up to a set of five (1 x 5) after you're done squatting. maybe every other workout. otherwise, yeah, same. start with a weight you know you can handle with strong form, then add weight gradually.
-
I was able to do 3 x 225 x 5 without too much problem. next will be 3 x 230 x 5.
Say I hit a wall at 3 x 250 x 5, what is my next play?
http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ:The_Program#Stalling.2C_Resetting_and_Progressing
First make sure you did hit a wall:
Simply put, 3 strikes and you're out. We all have off days so if you find yourself missing a rep or two (ie. 200 x 5/5/4) and you suspect it was due to lack of sleep, eating, dog died, etc., add weight normally to the following workout. Less than 5 reps in first set, or, 3 or more missed reps in all 3 sets (ie. 200 x 4/4/4) is considered a “missed attempt.” Keep the weight the same for the following workout. At this point you have 2 more chances to get all your reps. If you get your reps on either of the two following workouts, keep progressing from there. This might also be a signal that you need to start taking smaller jumps (5 lbs vs. 10 lbs.) or you need to microload (2.5 lb vs. 5 lbs.)
If so , next workout use 10% lighter load and then build back up.
Here is an example of getting stalled and reseting:
Squat:
280 x 5/5/5 (bar speed good)
285 x 5/5/5 (bar speed slow)
290 x 5/5/5 (bar speed very slow)
295 x 5/4/4 (two missed reps, bar speed slow, proceed by micro-loading) - note attempt to correct bar speed and missed reps by very small incremental jump
298 x 5/4/4 (3 lb. micro-jump, missed 2 reps, bar speed very slow, proceed with 2 lb. jump)
300 x 5/3/3 (4 missed reps = missed first attempt, bar speed very slow, strike 1) - keep weight the same
300 x 5/4/3 (3 missed reps = missed second attempt, bar speed very slow, strike 2) - again, missed reps with NO boost in weight used, attempt one last time
300 x 4/4/4 (3 missed reps = missed third attempt, strike 3, time for a reset)
Again, remember that we started with 10-lb jumps. We started missing reps shortly after bar speed slowed down. This isn't so much causative as it is indicative. Finally, we obviously hit the wall because we could not reach the 5/5/5 requirement despite using the same weight for 3 consecutive workouts.
How to proceed? Proceed by dropping 10% from your stalled weight
THE RESET
270 x 5/5/5 (10% drop from 300 (30 lb reduction), bar speed good) Proceed from here with ten pound jumps.
280 x 5/5/5 (10 lb. jump, bar speed good)
290 x 5/5/5 (bar speed good) - as we get within 10 lbs of our previous 5RM, only jump 5 lbs or less
295 x 5/5/5 (5 lb. jump, bar speed good) - note reduced weight advancement
300 x 5/5/5 - This is your previous 5RM. You successfully get all 15 reps!
305 x 5/5/5 – congrats, you just broke thorough your plateau and set a new personal record.
310 x 5/5/5 - continue adding 5 lbs, then 2.5 lbs, etc, etc until you stall again.
-
excellent. is it okay to increase 1 rep max in the same way? so say i do 3 x 225 x 5, and then try doing 1 x 280 and next session do 3 x 230 x 5, 1 x 285
It is okay, but I would not advise you to do that. You will quickly realize that you do not have the resources to mess around on this type of program. And messing around it is, because the three work-sets already tell you if you got stronger or not and they are sufficient amount of work to drive further adaptation until the next work-out. Save the singles for when you are done with that linear progression, which will hopefully be far away from now.
Edit: I just checked your log. You are free to do whatever you want, but you are messing up what was good advice in this thread. Deadlifts for 3 sets of 5? Failing to do the required amount of squatting in the second work-out? And the third as well? Maybe you do not have the attention span to follow a program for more than one training session...
-
Also, waht do you mean "deadlifts for 3 sets of 5?" Am I only supposed to do 3 sets of 5 for squat? LBSS said it was okay to do 3 sets of 5 of squat and DL alternating every other day, and no one refuted his post.
It is too much deadlift volume to recover from and completely unnecessary to improve the lift. Just warm-up the lift and do 1 work-set with 5 reps. You should also squat every session, not alternate it with deadlifts.
One other thing, i remember one of the commandments of vertical jump was "thou shall not do over 3 reps" in the just fly training site.
here it is:
V. Thou shalt include olympic lifts in thy vertical training program only if thou has qualified coaching and can perform thy lifts with full hip extension and proper technique. Otherwise thou shall realize that lifts like the hex bar deadlift can be just as effective for increasing thy jumping. If thou performest olympic lifts in thy program, thou would be wise to keep thy reps under 3 for thou sets.
http://justflyperformance.blogspot.com/2012/03/30-commandments-of-vertical-jump.html
You know what, just do whatever you want.
-
Also, waht do you mean "deadlifts for 3 sets of 5?" Am I only supposed to do 3 sets of 5 for squat? LBSS said it was okay to do 3 sets of 5 of squat and DL alternating every other day, and no one refuted his post.
i said it was okay to do 3 x 5 squat every workout, and one set of 5 of DL every other workout, not every other day. rippetoe recommends DL'ing just once a week. what did you think 1 x 5 meant?
-
So I was able to do 5 x 235 x 3, without much problem, besides a little bit of knee discomfort.
I'm wondering how long am I allowed to pause in between sets/reps? I rested about 3 minutes in between the sets, and i think I may have paused anywere from 1-5 seconds in between the reps.
You should rest however long it takes to make all the reps and sets - within limits obviously. You should not get cold in between sets. But other than that, anything goes. Over 10 minutes at the very end of a novice progression is not untypical to be required and usually you will not get cold in that time.
-
Maybe it is too much, for most it would be. But there are always people that can manage even that high a training volume and still make consistent PRs. You will have to find out for yourself.
-
Those pass for half-squats, but not squats. To give a form-check of the exercise in question I would need to see you perform that exercise, not something else. If your knees hurt going low, post a vid of you doing a light weight, but with the best full-squat form you can manage. Post at least 2 sets with multiple reps. One should be straight from the side with your whole body on screen, not higher than shoulder height, not lower than knees. The other should have the camera angle at 45° to your line of vision, from behind and with your whole body on the screen as well.