Adarq.org
Performance Area => Strength, Power, Reactivity, & Speed Discussion => Topic started by: D4 on July 26, 2011, 12:10:29 pm
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So I am a HUGE NBA fan, and I always seem to notice they're training habits as well. For one, they train way different than most of us do here on adarq.org. Obviously this is the case because their training is more injury-prevention/endure a grinding season/have a longer career-oriented.
But I see other things too. Like this summer, the skinny as hell Brandon Jennings says he will do boxing and martial arts to get stronger. Now If I was a new guy to come here on adarq.org and I said, I am a quick and athletic basketball player and I need to get stronger as it is holding me back, I don't think anyone here would advise me to do boxing or martial arts, and I wouldn't advise anyone with that either. Sure it'll help, but wouldn't a dedicated weight training routine be the best way?
I also never see NBA players training for vert/athleticism, when it can help so much for some players. And when I do see some doing lower body lifting, they leg press over squatting.
There are more examples but I cannot think right now. I know these NBA players are athletically gifted, and it is not their job to know these things even though they THINK they know (example, Air Up There thinks jumping high is all abs, and no legs), but shouldn't these professional trainers the NBA organizations hire know what the fuck to do? Or are they no different from the average personal trainer at 24 hour fitness who don't know jack shit neither?
P.S. I know AUT is not an NBA player, but you get the idea.
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Air Up There is one of the best dunkers on the planet.
Why the hate?.
No hate at all. I love his dunks. I'm possibly hating on the athletic trainers in the NBA. I used AUT as an example that these superior athletes are usually born with great genes and can jump so high without proper training, but they would rather think that they WORKED to get those hops. AUT seems to think he got his amazing hops from doing crunches or something.
Now don't get me wrong, I am not discrediting AUT or NBA players hard work ethics. They worked hard as hell to get to where they are now. It's just in the athleticism department, where I feel like it was great genetics, not their training.
My main rant was aimed at NBA trainers. If they knew what they were doing, shouldn't their clients like Brandon Jennings be in the weight room, and not in a boxing ring? And wouldn't we see players squatting, not leg pressing?
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When Air Up There thinks jumping high is all abs, and no legs I don't think he's trying to mislead anyone. Why don't you believe him?. Why would he lie about that?.
He's not lying or trying to mislead anyone. I'm saying he's mis-informed. Some guy who don't know anything possibly once told him the importance of your abs, and he prolly did a million crunches a day, and thinks his hops are a direct result of that.
If NBA players can dunk through great genetics I don't see the need for squats?.
A lot of them dunk through height. Even if they can dunk, or even if they are athletic as hell, why not enhance that even more? Why not go from a 34" to a 38" and become stronger and quicker in the process which will lead to improvements in every aspect of your game?
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He's not lying or trying to mislead anyone. I'm saying he's mis-informed. Some guy who don't know anything possibly once told him the importance of your abs.
He's mis-informed?.
Wait a minute. I just said he was one of the best dunkers in the world.
A lot of them dunk through height. Even if they can dunk, or even if they are athletic as hell, why not enhance that even more? Why not go from a 34" to a 38" and become stronger and quicker in the process which will lead to improvements in every aspect of your game?
If they can already dunk maybe they feel they don't need to enhance that ability any further. Why do that when they can be out doing better things & enjoying themselves?. They will get stronger, the question, just how strong do you need to be?. Squatting for upperbody?. They will get faster (to an extent/it's not the be all end all believe you me), the question, just how fast do you need to be?.
If he believes abs are the end all be all for jumping high, yes he is mis-informed as you will agree with as well. I know all you said was he was one of the best dunkers in the world. I never disputed anything you said, except that you assumed I thought he was lying to us about his ab claims. I was just clarifying my point.
How fast do you need to be? How strong do you need to be? When going up against the best basketball players in the world, the stronger the better. The faster the better. I just feel like a training mentality used on this site can be adopted by the NBA trainers.
And the main back up I used was, Brandon Jennings. Instead of boxing and learning martial arts, wouldn't time in the weight room be a better way to achieve his goals of becoming stronger? He would be in the weight room if the trainers at the NBA professional level knew what they are doing. Maybe they do know what they are doing? That is what I'm partially asking.
MY MAIN POINT IS, elite athletes like NBA players and AUT, accept what is usually given to them, and believe they can express their elite athleticism because of what they did, when usually, it's their genes. This is not their fault. Their job is to ball and dunk. It is the trainer's faults. I believe these trainers can enhance the NBA player, or todays TFB/AUT dunkers even further, but they don't.
My question is: why not? Are these trainers no different than your typical 24 hour fitness trainers?
And Sick, lol no offense but you seem to not be understanding any point I'm trying to make. So if you're an NBA player making millions of dollars and your job is to be the best player you can be, just because you can already dunk, you shouldn't spend a couple hours a day enhancing yourself to be a better player because you can be out "enjoying yourself"? That wasn't even the point I was trying to make neither.
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If he believes abs are the end all be all for jumping high, yes he is mis-informed as you will agree with as well.
If he's all abs & genetics, there is no need to put in the extra effort (legs) if he's already got hopz.
If I was in the NBA I would want to be more powerful. Boxers & martial artists certainly carry a lot power & speed. They some do weights, but it's not the be all end all to producing power.
I believe the trainers know exactly what there doing. No need for Louie Simmons in any camp.
Okay, amazingly you have failed to understand the point I attempted to make in each of your responses.
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Okay, amazingly you have failed to understand the point I attempted to make in each of your responses.
MY MAIN POINT IS, elite athletes like NBA players and AUT, accept what is usually given to them, and believe they can express their elite athleticism because of what they did, when usually, it's their genes. This is not their fault. Their job is to ball and dunk. It is the trainer's faults. I believe these trainers can enhance the NBA player, or todays TFB/AUT dunkers even further, but they don't.
My question is: why not? Are these trainers no different than your typical 24 hour fitness trainers?
Your not making any sense.
NBA players CAN ALREADY ball & dunk through genes. Why go over that?.
:uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm:
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quote] :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm:
That is no reply or argument.
My next response would have been, no NBA team needs Louie Simmons telling them how to increase strength, no NBA team needs Usain Bolt telling them how to increase speed.
NBA players CAN ALREADY ball & dunk through genes.
They don't need those guys.
You are continuing to completely miss my point.
No NBA team needs someone to tell them how to increase strength? So why is Brandon Jennings trying to become stronger before the next season by boxing? Sure it can help, but not as efficiently as a proper weight training routine. He's not gonna need to uppercut people in the NBA.
YES THEY HAVE GREAT GENES AND CAN ALREADY DUNK AND BALL WELL. So what? That means there's no point of improving that even further? So what if an NBA jumps high, jumping even higher won't help? I jump high at 38", just because I jump high I should stop? Training to get my vert higher, will help me in so many more ways in basketball than just the vertical part.
I never said, they need real trainers to get them dunking :uhhhfacepalm: I said they need real trainers so they can become even greater than they already are. Without real trainers, these athletes are clueless, hence Brandon taking boxing lessons, and AUT thinking his hops are all abs.
So yes, they DO need those guys. Unless you promote complacency with what you've already got.
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So yes, they DO need those guys. Unless you promote complacency with what you've already got.
No they don't cos they call already ball, run & dunk. They already have the attributes, there already great players.
They don't need GREAT speed. They don't need Andy Bolton strength.
Usain Bolt speed + Andy Bolton strength = Greatness?.
Nope.
No way am I promoting athleticism over SKILL in basketball.
Brandon Jennings is a great player already.
Brandon Jennings with added strength = greater player.
Pau Gasol arguably best PF.
Pau Gasol with athleticism = unarguably best PF.
Forget it, we'll agree to disagree. You promote complacency if you're already good. I promote being the best you possibly can be. End.
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So I am a HUGE NBA fan, and I always seem to notice they're training habits as well. For one, they train way different than most of us do here on adarq.org. Obviously this is the case because their training is more injury-prevention/endure a grinding season/have a longer career-oriented.
But I see other things too. Like this summer, the skinny as hell Brandon Jennings says he will do boxing and martial arts to get stronger. Now If I was a new guy to come here on adarq.org and I said, I am a quick and athletic basketball player and I need to get stronger as it is holding me back, I don't think anyone here would advise me to do boxing or martial arts, and I wouldn't advise anyone with that either. Sure it'll help, but wouldn't a dedicated weight training routine be the best way?
boxing will get the upper body stronger, mma training will get the entire body stronger.. as far as increased muscle mass goes, neither will provide a large enough stimulus to pack on a decent amount of lean mass.. both will get you in very good shape, but neither will get your lower body MORE explosive needed for the game of basketball, except for very small gains resulting from increased overall fitness.
I also never see NBA players training for vert/athleticism, when it can help so much for some players. And when I do see some doing lower body lifting, they leg press over squatting.
you've never seen kobe squatting? there's video of him squatting and benching with chains..
but ya, for the most part, nba players do sissified training.
There are more examples but I cannot think right now. I know these NBA players are athletically gifted, and it is not their job to know these things even though they THINK they know (example, Air Up There thinks jumping high is all abs, and no legs), but shouldn't these professional trainers the NBA organizations hire know what the fuck to do? Or are they no different from the average personal trainer at 24 hour fitness who don't know jack shit neither?
P.S. I know AUT is not an NBA player, but you get the idea.
AUT promotes "abs and stretching".
as for nba s&c coaches, they are more worried about injuring someone than making them better athletes.. if they injure a multi-million dollar athlete, they are gone.. that's why they don't do anything above "beginner level exercises" for the most part.. for example, they stick to physioball single arm db bench press rather than regular DB/BB bench press.. they do db squatting rather than barbell etc.. they do lots of balance/"functional training movements", some of which can be good for the ankles/knees/hip stability etc, but mostly are a waste of time.
if you want to see s&c coaches train basketball players, look at the collegiate level, not pro.. same goes for NFL.. collegiate s&c programs are worried about the program, and to give them a better chance at winning in their conference/whatever, they need to actually employ REAL s&c methods, such as squat, bench, hang clean, lunges, rows/pullups etc.. the same goes for NFL..
NFL athletes who are serious about their performance, go to facilities in the off-season.. they do not train with their club.. they seek out training at dedicated performance facilities who push the envelope.. so the same applies for nfl as with nba, s&c coaches dealing with multi-million dollar athletes simply do not "risk" utilizing more effective training methods, instead they stick to "functional (bullshit) training" and machines for the vast majority of the trainers.
alonzo mourning for example would workout after every game, he was pretty jacked.. same with ben wallace.. those guys love lifting.. the point is though, that to lift the way they wanted, with actual exercises, they need to do it on their own.. otherwise, they just get the league-fluff.
nba/nfl s&c is more about "injury prevention" and maintenance of abilities, not pushing the envelope to create freaks.. collegiate & private s&c is where they push the envelope.
a good example of this, is those records they keep for each lift/test/whatever on the walls in collegiate/private s&c facilities...... ie, the bench record, squat, p-clean, whatever records.. they have the record, date, and by whom achieved it.. you don't see that on the pro level..
pc
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Brandon Jennings with added strength = greater player.
Not necessarily.
Brandon Jennings with added power I might agree with.
I mean he adds 100lbs to his squat over the off-season?.
Huh?. Can't he already dunk.
ARE YOU SERIOUSSSSS?!?!
So if Brandon got stronger, you don't agree he'll be better? I never said SQUAT BTW. And if he did add 100lbs to his squat then GREAT. He'll possibly jump a few inches higher, be a little quicker, absorb my contact, and overall be a better player......
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if you want to become a better athlete in a sport you need to:
1. improve skill in sport
2. improve overall fitness
3. minimize stressors (proper sleep, diet, etc)
4. improve relative strength in compound movements & strength in individual muscle groups, both specific/important to the sport
5. ...
here's a small example:
#1. basketball is a sport than needs power/quickness, but is dominated by actual skill & natural advantages such as height etc.. Improving power will result in improved vert/speed/first step quickness etc, which will have an undoubtedly positive effect on ones skill game.
#2. competitive shotput is dominated by power/strength. One cannot compete at the elite level simply by throwing the shot & improving technique. They instead need to work on technique while getting stronger in the weight room.
this is why people such as john stockton, steve nash, gary payton, or even player's like steve kerr can compete with athletes who are superior in the power/speed department, and even dominate them.. an example of a powerful point guard would be kevin johnson or derrick rose..
you're not going to find weak shot putters at the elite level... you will however, find weak basketball players at the elite level, in fact, many of whom can actually dominate the sport due to other aspects of the sport (reaction time, perception, decision making, skill) etc.
so, in a sport like basketball, you can get by, without dedicating your life to strength..
in a sport such as shotput, you cannot get by, without dedicating your life to strength..
if basketball players want to jump higher, run faster, and thus gain an edge on their competition, they need to dedicate their life to strength... instead, most dedicate their life to skill.. most people cannot dedicate themselves to both, so they will favor one over the other, but to become the best athlete you can possibly be, both issues need to be addressed.
pretty much anyone in the nba, except the players who are already freaks (not many), could increase their athleticism considerably.. these players aren't going to achieve considerable gains in athleticism by utilizing exercises that do not address maximal strength & thus explosive strength... you aren't going to improve max strength on a bosu ball or using kettlebells or using balance exercises or using secret society medball exercises.
pc
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if you want to become a better athlete in a sport you need to:
1. improve skill in sport
2. improve overall fitness
3. minimize stressors (proper sleep, diet, etc)
4. improve relative strength in compound movements & strength in individual muscle groups, both specific/important to the sport
5. ...
here's a small example:
#1. basketball is a sport than needs power/quickness, but is dominated by actual skill & natural advantages such as height etc.. Improving power will result in improved vert/speed/first step quickness etc, which will have an undoubtedly positive effect on ones skill game.
#2. competitive shotput is dominated by power/strength. One cannot compete at the elite level simply by throwing the shot & improving technique. They instead need to work on technique while getting stronger in the weight room.
this is why people such as john stockton, steve nash, gary payton, or even player's like steve kerr can compete with athletes who are superior in the power/speed department, and even dominate them.. an example of a powerful point guard would be kevin johnson or derrick rose..
you're not going to find weak shot putters at the elite level... you will however, find weak basketball players at the elite level, in fact, many of whom can actually dominate the sport due to other aspects of the sport (reaction time, perception, decision making, skill) etc.
so, in a sport like basketball, you can get by, without dedicating your life to strength..
in a sport such as shotput, you cannot get by, without dedicating your life to strength..
if basketball players want to jump higher, run faster, and thus gain an edge on their competition, they need to dedicate their life to strength... instead, most dedicate their life to skill.. most people cannot dedicate themselves to both, so they will favor one over the other, but to become the best athlete you can possibly be, both issues need to be addressed.
pretty much anyone in the nba, except the players who are already freaks (not many), could increase their athleticism considerably.. these players aren't going to achieve considerable gains in athleticism by utilizing exercises that do not address maximal strength & thus explosive strength... you aren't going to improve max strength on a bosu ball or using kettlebells or using balance exercises or using secret society medball exercises.
pc
So you would agree with me when I say that a considerable amount of NBA players can really enhance their games if they worked on strength/power/athleticism without neglecting skill work? And that if the trainers didn't have to worry so much about injuring star players, and they made them do real work in the weight room, many great players will become even greater?
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if you want to become a better athlete in a sport you need to:
1. improve skill in sport
2. improve overall fitness
3. minimize stressors (proper sleep, diet, etc)
4. improve relative strength in compound movements & strength in individual muscle groups, both specific/important to the sport
5. ...
here's a small example:
#1. basketball is a sport than needs power/quickness, but is dominated by actual skill & natural advantages such as height etc.. Improving power will result in improved vert/speed/first step quickness etc, which will have an undoubtedly positive effect on ones skill game.
#2. competitive shotput is dominated by power/strength. One cannot compete at the elite level simply by throwing the shot & improving technique. They instead need to work on technique while getting stronger in the weight room.
this is why people such as john stockton, steve nash, gary payton, or even player's like steve kerr can compete with athletes who are superior in the power/speed department, and even dominate them.. an example of a powerful point guard would be kevin johnson or derrick rose..
you're not going to find weak shot putters at the elite level... you will however, find weak basketball players at the elite level, in fact, many of whom can actually dominate the sport due to other aspects of the sport (reaction time, perception, decision making, skill) etc.
so, in a sport like basketball, you can get by, without dedicating your life to strength..
in a sport such as shotput, you cannot get by, without dedicating your life to strength..
if basketball players want to jump higher, run faster, and thus gain an edge on their competition, they need to dedicate their life to strength... instead, most dedicate their life to skill.. most people cannot dedicate themselves to both, so they will favor one over the other, but to become the best athlete you can possibly be, both issues need to be addressed.
pretty much anyone in the nba, except the players who are already freaks (not many), could increase their athleticism considerably.. these players aren't going to achieve considerable gains in athleticism by utilizing exercises that do not address maximal strength & thus explosive strength... you aren't going to improve max strength on a bosu ball or using kettlebells or using balance exercises or using secret society medball exercises.
pc
So you would agree with me when I say that a considerable amount of NBA players can really enhance their games if they worked on strength/power/athleticism without neglecting skill work? And that if the trainers didn't have to worry so much about injuring star players, and they made them do real work in the weight room, many great players will become even greater?
yup 100%
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I remember Vince training with a NFL friend back in his prime athletic days. Also, Blake Griffin is kind of doing conditioning work but I haven't seen much explosive work from him.
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I cannot fathom how much sickenvendetta missed your point, ineedtodunk.
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I cannot fathom how much sickenvendetta missed your point, ineedtodunk.
LOL
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Remember they can already play ball & dunk already.
and?
There accomplished athletes.
oh really? they all have multiple nba championships? mvp status? hall of fame? etc?
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Remember they can already play ball & dunk already. There accomplished athletes.
:uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm:
I am seriously astonished at how badly you are still not comprehending my arguments. So if an NBA player can dunk, there's no use of him squatting anymore? So the added squat strength which can help one jump higher, be quicker on O and D, and absorb more contact cannot help a player be even better? Is dunking the end goal? Is being able to dunk the final stage in athletic development?
If somehow you answer yes to that question, I will stop posting on here.
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Is being able to dunk the final stage in athletic development?
Kenny George was such a great athlete. He could dunk without jumping!
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There is no way a human being can possibly consistently continue to fail to comprehend the points being attempted to make.
and?
And I'm trying to workout what the benefits of adding 100lbs to your squat would be?. And how this would further increase a bballers existing potential since he can already play ball & dunk.
oh really?.
There all athletes. Can't sit & watch & TV all day man.
^^^ And that, is getting me suspicious. Are you just trolling, trying to mess with me? Cause I can't believe to the degree of ridiculousness your replies are heading towards.
A zillion things can make you quicker on O and D, don't need to squat.
Absorb more contact?. Wouldn't martial arts & boxing be more beneficial?.
I used squat as an example because YOU brought up squatting. So basically you're saying squat DOES help absorb more contact and make you quicker, but other things can do so better? You just proved my point buddy.
Well since he can already dunk, how much higher does he need to jump?.
Dwight Howard can get his mouth on the rim. So if he decreased his vertical by about 25 inches so that he can just barely dunk, he would be the same player he is today?
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and?
And I'm trying to workout what the benefits of adding 100lbs to your squat would be?.
improved athleticism?
And how this would further increase a bballers existing potential since he can already play ball & dunk.
so by your twisted logic, why would a player do anything other than maintenance because they can "already play ball & dunk".. why push yourself, you can already "play ball and dunk".. don't work on your jumper, strength, conditioning, etc.. YOU CAN ALREADY "PLAY BALL AND DUNK" aka you're an "accomplished athlete".
once you reach that accomplished athlete status, no need to push yourself anymore.. just coast!
strong outlook.
oh really?.
There all athletes. Can't sit & watch & TV all day man.
what? your reply to my comment makes no sense.
Remember they can already play ball & dunk already.
and?
There accomplished athletes.
oh really? they all have multiple nba championships? mvp status? hall of fame? etc?
what does already accomplished mean? being in the nba makes you accomplished? what if you're on the bench but still in the nba? what if you never win a title? what if you never make the allstar team?
seems to me you don't know what being an athlete is about? athletes are constantly trying to improve their game, but they get bad guidance in terms of power/speed. the majority of them spend all day in the BASKETBALL-gym working on their game, but then neglect the weightroom.
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I am seriously astonished at how badly you are still not comprehending my arguments. So if an NBA player can dunk, there's no use of him squatting anymore? So the added squat strength which can help one jump higher, be quicker on O and D, and absorb more contact cannot help a player be even better? Is dunking the end goal? Is being able to dunk the final stage in athletic development?
If somehow you answer yes to that question, I will stop posting on here.
Well since he can already dunk, how much higher does he need to jump?.
A zillion things can make you quicker on O and D, don't need to squat.
Absorb more contact?. Wouldn't martial arts & boxing be more beneficial?.
name some, other than skill work?
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name some, other than skill work?
Road cycling, pulling back on the pedal stroke increases the power in your hip flexors/turnover of your legs.
LMFAO.
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name some, other than skill work?
Road cycling, pulling back on the pedal stroke increases the power in your hip flexors/turnover of your legs.
Increase the speed of your arm action.
Okay, just come out and say it, you're trolling me.
If not, doesn't matter, you just proved my point. Let's say there are lots of things better at improving quickness than squat, as there very well could be, my whole point was that, NBA players DO WHATEVER IT IS TO MAKE THEM QUICKER (improve their athleticism), and you told me "WHY? THEY CAN BALL AND DUNK ALREADY"
YOU PROMOTE COMPLACENCY, GOOD JOB!
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Didn't you used to have Bruce Lee as your avatar? Didn't Bruce Lee say "Never be satisfied"
You're basically saying, if you can dunk and ball, BE SATISFIED LOL
Adarq, you can already dunk, STOP SQUATTING lol...
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name some, other than skill work?
Road cycling, pulling back on the pedal stroke increases the power in your hip flexors/turnover of your legs.
LMFAO.
That proves your a troll.
ROFLMFAO.
hey guys, if you want to become faster in an impact based movement, you should utilize non-impact based systems which do not improve maxS or exS such as road cycling, pulling back on the pedal stroke.
make sure to go to a bicycle shop to get your seat height adjusted properly or it won't transfer as much to basketball movements!!!
also, wear bicycle shorts while playing basketball, the compressive nature of the shorts increases stiffness and temperature of muscle resulting in more force. Get rid of those baggy shorts!!
(http://images.childcostumes.com/clown-horn.jpg)
finally, I advise mounting one of these on your shoulder in case someone is setting a pick on you, just give it a nice honk and they should move immediately.
ROFLMFAOOMGROFL.
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Didn't you used to have Bruce Lee as your avatar? Didn't Bruce Lee say "Never be satisfied"
You're basically saying, if you can dunk and ball, BE SATISFIED LOL
Adarq, you can already dunk, STOP SQUATTING lol...
true, i'm going to stop squatting and pick myself up one of these:
(http://images.childcostumes.com/clown-horn.jpg)
going to honk in the plant to cause a fight or flight response and jump 10" higher.
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Didn't you used to have Bruce Lee as your avatar? Didn't Bruce Lee say "Never be satisfied"
You're basically saying, if you can dunk and ball, BE SATISFIED LOL
Adarq, you can already dunk, STOP SQUATTING lol...
You going off on completely different tangents man.
If Adarq wants to increase his vert, that's him, not NBA players that can already dunk & may not feel like the need to increase there verts.
HOLY SHIT YOU CONTINUE TO AMAZE ME BRO!
I gotta admit, I'm laughing my ass off from this thread. Good thing I started it, lots of laughs, whether you're trolling me or not.
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Didn't you used to have Bruce Lee as your avatar? Didn't Bruce Lee say "Never be satisfied"
You're basically saying, if you can dunk and ball, BE SATISFIED LOL
Adarq, you can already dunk, STOP SQUATTING lol...
You going off on completely different tangents man.
If Adarq wants to increase his vert, that's him, not NBA players that can already dunk & may not feel like the need to increase there verts.
michael jordan was never content.
if he could find a way to improve his athleticism even microscopically, he would do it.. same with kobe.. same with all of the "killers".
you are basically advocating that athletes should be content, which is polar opposite of being an athlete.
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ROFLMFAOOMGROFL.
But you have never felt the burn that you get in the hip flexors from pulling back on the pedal stroke, you have never done the exercise in your life.
Squatting ain't doing shit for your hip flexors blu.
LOL!!!!!!!!!!
btw, explain to me why "pulling back on the pedal stroke" would utilize the hip flexors as the prime movers?
doesn't make much sense...........................................
HAHAH!!!!!!!!!!
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That proves your a troll.
That proves your a troll.
That proves your a troll.
That proves your a troll.
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That proves your a troll.
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Didn't you used to have Bruce Lee as your avatar? Didn't Bruce Lee say "Never be satisfied"
You're basically saying, if you can dunk and ball, BE SATISFIED LOL
Adarq, you can already dunk, STOP SQUATTING lol...
You going off on completely different tangents man.
If Adarq wants to increase his vert, that's him, not NBA players that can already dunk & may not feel like the need to increase there verts.
michael jordan was never content.
if he could find a way to improve his athleticism even microscopically, he would do it.. same with kobe.. same with all of the "killers".
you are basically advocating that athletes should be content, which is polar opposite of being an athlete.
Exactly SickeninVendetta, I was trying to make a point saying NBA players can be so much more, but you're counter arguing against me saying "why should they be so much more, they can already dunk and ball"
I'm just going to assume you're trolling my ass off right now. If so, good job, it was HILARIOUS (seriously)
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That proves your a troll.
That proves your a troll.
That proves your a troll.
That proves your a troll.
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That proves your a troll.
just laughed my fucking ass off at the increasing text size.......
check my sig in like 2minutes from time of posting this.
roflmaomsofmasofalmamao
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Nice quote on ur sig adarq, anyways doesn't this thread deserve to get into the Topic Hall of Fame?
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michael jordan was never content.
if he could find a way to improve his athleticism even microscopically, he would do it.. same with kobe.. same with all of the "killers".
you are basically advocating that athletes should be content, which is polar opposite of being an athlete.
So tell me what the weight room/100lb squat increase would achieve?.
an increase in relative strength? the ability to produce/handle 100 lb more of tension? the ability to move previously intense weights at a faster speed due to the increase? the ability to voluntarily tap into more motor units? the possibility that significant hypertrophy has occurred? the transfer of this strength to jumping is very high considering the specificity of the exercise? the increases in testosterone/igf-1/hGH that has occurred during the process of such training, yielding plenty of benefits in not only the training itself, but the recovery process and overall arousal of the athlete for practices & sport?
now it's your turn to explain to me how "pulling back on the pedal stroke" somehow targets the hip flexors hard? because "pulling back" and "hip flexor" are polar opposites.
explain?
LMAO DYING.
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btw, explain to me why "pulling back on the pedal stroke" would utilize the hip flexors as the prime movers?
doesn't make much sense.
You just have to try it man. It's the most intense hip flexor exercise there is.
you're gonna have one hell of a hangover tomorrow morn breh
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btw, explain to me why "pulling back on the pedal stroke" would utilize the hip flexors as the prime movers?
doesn't make much sense.
You just have to try it man. It's the most intense hip flexor exercise there is.
you're gonna have one hell of a hangover tomorrow morn breh
I just thought he might be trolling, never thought of the possibility he might be high or drunk right now.
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an increase in relative strength? the ability to produce/handle 100 lb more of tension? the ability to move previously intense weights at a faster speed due to the increase? the ability to voluntarily tap into more motor units? the possibility that significant hypertrophy has occurred? the transfer of this strength to jumping is very high considering the specificity of the exercise? the increases in testosterone/igf-1/hGH that has occurred during the process of such training, yielding plenty of benefits in not only the training itself, but the recovery process and overall arousal of the athlete for practices & sport?
Can't really see how this would make a player all that much better?.
He can already play ball, run & dunk.
He's already an accomplished athlete from what he's already doing.
I refuse to take that quote seriously anymore. You know which quote.
He can already play ball, run & dunk.
He's already an accomplished athlete from what he's already doing.
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btw, explain to me why "pulling back on the pedal stroke" would utilize the hip flexors as the prime movers?
doesn't make much sense.
You just have to try it man. It's the most intense hip flexor exercise there is.
it's more intense than direct hip flexor training, which actually targets the hip flexors as prime movers?
sure you are hip flexing during cycling, but "pulling back on the pedal stroke" is mentioning something that is hamstring/glute dominant, not hip flexor... your hip flexors work in sprinting also, but they aren't the prime movers, they help assist the prime movers through the cross flexion/extension reflex, but they are not doing the mechanical work on the ground causing locomotion.
regardless, you're advocating an exercise that has 091204912% less transfer than squatting would be to improving basketball speed/quickness/vert.
since when do the hip flexors matter much anyway in basketball? it's a game of short acceleration, there's no MAX-VELOCITY, it's not like you're going to need maximal turnover speed over 10-20 yards... instead however, you will need to learn how to produce alot of force, fast, at the very early portions of acceleration, which is determined by knee extension & hip extension, as well as powerful thigh abduction/adduction for defensive slide movements..
very powerful/fast hip flexion is going to influence max velocity of a sprint, not movements in basketball.
ok you mentioned their are a zillion things you can do, name some more?
pc
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I just thought he might be trolling, never thought of the possibility he might be high or drunk right now.
You never pulled back on the pedal stroke.
How do you know it don't work?.
I never said it don't work.
I conclude. The weight room won't make him that much a better player.
He can already play ball, run & dunk. :P
Weight room cannot make an NBA player that much better? Gotcha
Tell that to Brandon Jennings and Kevin Durant so you can limit their potential. Tell Dwight Howard his physical superiority over his counterparts did not come from his dedication to the weight room.
I know Dwight is naturally gifted, but he enhanced it by working in the weight room, because he didn't become complacent/satisfied, which lead to him being 3x defensive player of the year in a row.
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an increase in relative strength? the ability to produce/handle 100 lb more of tension? the ability to move previously intense weights at a faster speed due to the increase? the ability to voluntarily tap into more motor units? the possibility that significant hypertrophy has occurred? the transfer of this strength to jumping is very high considering the specificity of the exercise? the increases in testosterone/igf-1/hGH that has occurred during the process of such training, yielding plenty of benefits in not only the training itself, but the recovery process and overall arousal of the athlete for practices & sport?
Can't really see how this would make a player all that much better?.
everything i mentioned above relates to producing more force relative to ones bodyweight, which means more power, which means better first step quickness, acceleration, jumping ability, change of direction, etc.
i explained to you how it would, now you explain to me how it won't? explain to me how adding 100 lb to ones squat would not benefit them athletically, given bodyweight & rep speed remains relatively the same.
He can already play ball, run & dunk.
cool story.
He's already an accomplished athlete from what he's already doing.
yet another cool story.
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very powerful/fast hip flexion is going to influence max velocity of a sprint, not movements in basketball.
ok you mentioned their are a zillion things you can do, name some more?
pc
Ah man.
When you push forwards your working the mainly the glutes/quads.
Pulling back hits your hip flexors. Like I said man, you need to go out & train it.
Never felt any soreness in my hip flexors from squatting, nor did they make them very powerful. Anyone who cycles & pulls back on the pedal stroke will seriously increase there first step explosion.
There is no point me naming anymore, you shoot everything down. You HAVE to do the exercise( s) man. THEN shoot it down if it don't work.
why are hip flexors important for basketball performance?
no one said squatting should target your hip flexors.
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everything i mentioned above relates to producing more force relative to ones bodyweight, which means more power, which means better first step quickness, acceleration, jumping ability, change of direction, etc.
i explained to you how it would, now you explain to me how it won't? explain to me how adding 100 lb to ones squat would not benefit them athletically, given bodyweight & rep speed remains relatively the same.
But realistically I can't see how much an elite NBA player would gain by adding 100lbs to his squat considering since he can already play ball, run & dunk to a high enough standard which already possesses.
Even if it gave the elite NBA player a marginal improvement in athleticism, I believe he should do it. If he's a real competitor he would.
So realistically, you can't how an NBA player who by adding 100 lbs to his squat, can't get better, when it will make him quicker, faster, stronger, jump higher?
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everything i mentioned above relates to producing more force relative to ones bodyweight, which means more power, which means better first step quickness, acceleration, jumping ability, change of direction, etc.
i explained to you how it would, now you explain to me how it won't? explain to me how adding 100 lb to ones squat would not benefit them athletically, given bodyweight & rep speed remains relatively the same.
But realistically I can't see how much an elite NBA player would gain by adding 100lbs to his squat considering since he can already play ball, run & dunk to a high enough standard which already possesses.
elite basketball doesn't imply elite athlete....
so tony parker wouldn't benefit from increasing his squat 100 lb?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRwzNubPUc0
he's obviously not accomplished then, he can't dunk.. even tho he got rings.
what about this guy?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMmDh4nVJ7Y
he can actually dunk though, just had a bad jump, he's more accomplished than tony parker.
would increasing ones squat 100 lb yield to any improvements in athleticism? if no, why not?
pc
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very powerful/fast hip flexion is going to influence max velocity of a sprint, not movements in basketball.
ok you mentioned their are a zillion things you can do, name some more?
pc
Never felt any soreness in my hip flexors from squatting
cuz that's ALL THAT MATTERS...right?
(https://mlkshk.com/r/QN)
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why are hip flexors important for basketball performance?
They will increase your stride rate/turnover/first step explosion. It's the hip flexors that connect your legs to your body (the core) which is where all the power stems from.
not much hip flexion in a first step... not much hip flexion in really quick short distance movements..
not much stride frequency going on in short distance movements....
stride frequency is less in accel than in max V, not much max V going on in basketball...
i just dont see how da hip flexors create so much splosion?
Think of the cycling action. Your legs spinning, with every backward rep your increasing that burn/power/strength in the hip flexors.
all the power comes from the core? news to me..
explain how all of the power comes from the core? is there some kind of magic going on that i don't know about? holdup, must be that boing vert secret society shit.
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would increasing ones squat 100 lb yield to any improvements in athleticism?
If he put 100lbs on his squat I still couldn't see realistically a big increase in there performances.
if no, why not?
if no, why not?
if no, why not?
if no, why not?
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very powerful/fast hip flexion is going to influence max velocity of a sprint, not movements in basketball.
ok you mentioned their are a zillion things you can do, name some more?
pc
Never felt any soreness in my hip flexors from squatting
rect fem/vl also act as hip flexors, squat works them.. hip flexion isn't restricted to illiopsoas..
i was wondering if you would catch my "squat doesn't work hip flexors" a few posts back.. but you didn't.
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would increasing ones squat 100 lb yield to any improvements in athleticism?
If he put 100lbs on his squat I still couldn't see realistically a big increase in there performances.
if no, why not?
if no, why not?
if no, why not?
if no, why not?
x2, educate us sickenin.
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if no, why not?
It's like saying what would 100lbs+ do for running performance, sprint performance, soccer performance etc...
Very little.
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if no, why not?
It's like saying what would 100lbs+ do for running performance, sprint performance, soccer performance etc...
Very little.
WHY WOULD IT BE VERY LITTLE?
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WHY WOULD IT BE VERY LITTLE?
Because there is so much more to increasing overall athletic performance.
Squatting alone won't make you elite.
yes, but it is one of the prime factors in increasing amount of force, which is equal to more force on the ground, which is equal to FASTER AND MORE EXPLOSIVE ATHLETES.
in b4 'but they can run and dunk'
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i was wondering if you would catch my "squat doesn't work hip flexors" a few posts back.. but you didn't.
Too many posts man, lol.
i thought you were a pro, i am disappoint.
not much hip flexion in a first step... not much hip flexion in really quick short distance movements..
Hip flexors fire the knees.
how do they fire the knees?
Do a pedal stroke. Your on the back portion. Your knees move forwards.
what.
do a sprint, knee moves forward also while in recovery phase, but it's not actively extending.
all the power comes from the core? news to me..
explain how all of the power comes from the core? is there some kind of magic going on that i don't know about? holdup, must be that boing vert secret society shit.
Yup, core muscles fire before extremities.
Weak at the core, huge power leaks.
[/quote]
the "core" is just a copout for not knowing how to train people.. the core is highly overrated in jumping.. people's cores are sufficiently strong enough to handle the force in the plant, unless you see round back/caving going on, the person is fine, and it will have no bearing on "power leaks".
"oh bro u got a power leak" -> translation -> "oh bro i dno what im talking about so i just talk out of my ass when in reality you have to get a fuckload stronger in your legs/glutes/calves"
if you can't squat 2.5xBW+ on legit half or deep, the power leak is that you have weak legs, has nothing to do with core unless you're caving over in your squat, which you shouldn't be if you're progressing your lift over time, core will be sufficiently strong.
bbl, doing secret core/stretching/medball boingvert secret society exercises, aka dog park.
pc
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if no, why not?
It's like saying what would 100lbs+ do for running performance, sprint performance, soccer performance etc...
Very little.
it would do alot actually...
bbl
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WHY WOULD IT BE VERY LITTLE?
Because there is so much more to increasing overall athletic performance.
Squatting alone won't make you elite.
Good God.
I would even argue, that squatting alone CAN significantly improve some NBA athletes. A lot of NBA players get a lot of basketball specific plyometric work and jumping work from there schedule. So being able to apply more force into those movements they repeat over and over on a daily basis will have them being more explosive in all of them. And that more force to apply will come from that 100lb+ squat.
Unfortunately, I have some work to do for class tomorrow, so I cannot post anymore in hopes of getting more hilarious replies from you.
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btw before i go, sickenin, you ever do an intense shakewieght phase? i'm in one right now and it's really mind blowing how effective it is, i'm astonished, i thought it would be crap..
anyway, hit me up if you want the details to my shakeweight intensification block im doing right now.
and lmfao don't knock it until you try it.
pc
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You guys are overrating squatting.
It ain't all that.
Squatting 2.5BW doesn't make you elite.
it is a key factor to producing the force output required to become elite.
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it is a key factor to producing the force output required to become elite.
Yeah but there's so much more to becoming a complete player/athlete than squatting.
Mark my words, my man adarqui won't reach his goal of 47' through squatting alone. He will just plateau out at 40'.
He's need to do other things man, work on different area's then his gains will increase much quicker.
Nobody said squatting ALONE.
If Adarqui plateau's at 40 feet, I'd say that's impressive.
Regardless, squatting is not ALL he does bro.
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Take the strongest guy in the NBA.
Is he better than Kobe?.
I would argue that Joey Graham is at least as good as Kobe.
All jokes aside, you're response was simply amazing.
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That proves your a troll.
That proves your a troll.
That proves your a troll.
That proves your a troll.
.
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That proves your a troll.
Fine, but use proper grammar the next time. Your =/= you're. Your sweater is yellow =/= You're a troll. The " ' " takes place for the "a". So you're = you are. You're a troll = You are a troll. :rant:
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Take the strongest guy in the NBA.
Is he better than Kobe?.
when is this question mentioned in OP?
is Kobe with +100lb on squat/DL, +100lb on bench/press a better athlete then he is right now, assuming his fat%, etc are the same?
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Hey sickening, I'm the boss of an NBA team and you're my hired trainer.
And I'm not happy with my white and weak (1x squat) white rookie I just drafted and I want to get him quicker (note - I haven't said stronger). I want him to run a bit faster. Faster than retired center Greg Ostertag. He beats my guy in a 30m footrace.
Here's Greg:
(http://theringbball.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/ostertag_1024_0304.jpg)
Greg's a bit old now at 40+, but still, he kicks my guy's ass.
So how are you going about into making my rookie player faster? What are you going to do? The deadline is one year.
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So how are you going about into making my rookie player faster? What are you going to do? The deadline is one year.
I would want him him to increase his relative strength/lower bodymass. I have always found the lighter I am, the faster I can accelerate.
Run bunches of 10m/20m/30m/40m/50m sprints & work on his flexibility.
Hit the entire posterior chain, mainly the glutes (horizontal muscle fibers), increasing strength, overcoming inertia far easier, while not adding on mass.
The calves (achilles tendon)/shins can provide an additional 20% to 25% of the power needed for an explosive start putting emphasis on plantarflexion/ankle-joint extension strength/exercises. Work on isolated foot strengthening exercises (advanced). Plyo's. Tell him to wear Vibram 5 fingers everywhere.
Getting his hip flexors & arm action to be as explosive as possible & work in coordination with each other. Anyone on court who has both those firing will have insane first step explosion.
Increase core stability as the inner core (generator/power) fires before the extremities (legs/arms) which is crucial to help build & transfer power from the core to the arms. It is clear that explosive leg movements are predetermined by explosive arm movements. Faster you move your arms, the faster the legs will follow. Core is vital to powerful arm action.
Practice relaxation & sound running technique. The more muscle relaxed, the greater the muscle contraction, the faster the body will move.
You know I could get into some real advanced stuff involving the use of the head, counter-rotation of the upper-lowerbody (increases elasticity), using your spinal engine, using the spine as whip like a cheetah, spiralling techniques, breathing techniques which increase acceleration/power etc... Not gonna go there.
...and what are you going to tell him to use/do to improve this? ;)
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You guys are overrating squatting.
It ain't all that.
you are UNDERRATING the squat, as a test, not an exercise.. it is simply a test of how much force you can produce bilaterally in that movement, which takes a very small amount of time to learn, so it is a great test to assess lower body strength..
you simply fail to understand that if one can squat 1.5xBW vs 2.5xBW, 2.5xBW has far more potential to excel athletically.
it's all about producing force.. someone squatting 1.5xBW vs 2.5xBW, all things the same (conditioning/skill etc), 2.5xBW will destroy 1.5xBW in tests of power/speed.
since you're infatuated with core strength, 2.5xBW squat requires far more core strength than 1.5xBW squat.
relative strength going up with the same rep speed yields gains in athleticism.. there's no such thing as relative strength improvements in a bosu ball single leg squat, or a MR btl medball exercise.
Squatting 2.5BW doesn't make you elite.
duh
but what does not being able to squat 2.5xBW make you?
weak.
it is a key factor to producing the force output required to become elite.
Yeah but there's so much more to becoming a complete player/athlete than squatting.
Mark my words, my man adarqui won't reach his goal of 47' through squatting alone. He will just plateau out at 40'.
i hate when people use that as an example...
you're looking at someone who is trying to go from 27" RVJ to 47" RVJ, not 38" RVJ to 47" RVJ......... 27 to 47.. legit 20" gain is basically unheard of, it's extremely rare.. 27" to 40" was relatively "easy".. 40 to 47" will be astronomical, and it requires me to be able to produce 3x+BW half squat, that which my body cannot handle right now without breaking down, and plus im nearing 30.
again, it's easy for you to say something as simple as this: "Mark my words, my man adarqui won't reach his goal of 47' through squatting alone. He will just plateau out at 40'."
that's easy to say.. what you want me to do, pull back on the pedal stroke? will that get me from 40 to 47?
what will get me to 47?
explain in detail what i need to do to reach 47" RVJ, thanks.
if i lack the strength to be able to produce a 47" RVJ, how am I going to achieve 47? through magic?
He's need to do other things man, work on different area's then his gains will increase much quicker.
right, because there's such thing as "quick gains" after you've gained ~13" on your running vert.. maybe I should buy the instant inches program from linkenauger.. i need 7 instant inches to get from 40 to 47.
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So how are you going about into making my rookie player faster? What are you going to do? The deadline is one year.
I would want him him to increase his relative strength/lower bodymass.
what do you think i've been doing for the last 6 months?
405 pin squat @ 150.
I have always found the lighter I am, the faster I can accelerate.
Run bunches of 10m/20m/30m/40m/50m sprints & work on his flexibility.
i stopped running sprints, i stretch multiple times per day, i can easily bring heel to butt and get chest to knee on standing hamstring stretches.. i agree i should be running more short sprints.
Hit the entire posterior chain, mainly the glutes (horizontal muscle fibers), increasing strength, overcoming inertia far easier, while not adding on mass.
i hit my glutes through half squatting, hypers, glute bridges, reverse hypers...
The calves (achilles tendon)/shins can provide an additional 20% to 25% of the power needed for an explosive start putting emphasis on plantarflexion/ankle-joint extension strength/exercises. Work on isolated foot strengthening exercises (advanced). Plyo's.
i'm Mr. Reactive work, i'm always doing MR halftucks/pogos/double leg bounds etc.. I do tons of calve raises, bodyweight or barbell.
Tell him to wear Vibram 5 fingers everywhere.
i wear nike zoom waffle racers, they are better than vibrams for developing the feet.
Getting his hip flexors & arm action to be as explosive as possible & work in coordination with each other. Anyone on court who has both those firing will have insane first step explosion.
i don't work my hip flexors, but i do plate swings for arm swing.
Increase core stability as the inner core (generator/power) fires before the extremities (legs/arms) which is crucial to help build & transfer power from the core to the arms. It is clear that explosive leg movements are predetermined by explosive arm movements. Faster you move your arms, the faster the legs will follow. Core is vital to powerful arm action.
direct core work is overrated, i get enough core work through all of the other crap i do.
i do plate swings/bodyweight upper for arm swing/shoulder power.
Practice relaxation & sound running technique. The more muscle relaxed, the greater the muscle contraction, the faster the body will move.
uh what....
You know I could get into some real advanced stuff involving the use of the head, counter-rotation of the upper-lowerbody (increases elasticity), using your spinal engine, using the spine as whip like a cheetah, spiralling techniques, breathing techniques which increase acceleration/power etc... Not gonna go there.
please don't, our heads will explode.....
thanks for the advice though, perhaps now i will reach 47" after you have affirmed what i'm already doing.. i guess the missing ingredient is vibram 5 finger's and core work.
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Take the strongest guy in the NBA.
Is he better than Kobe?.
ya that's a bad way of looking at things.. it seems sickenin just doesn't get it..
is Kobe with +100lb on squat/DL, +100lb on bench/press a better athlete then he is right now, assuming his fat%, etc are the same?
correct way of looking at things ^^
pc
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sickenin, what are some of the key differences between NFL athletes and NBA athletes, which explains their different levels of strength/power?
i'm curious as to what you think is responsible for nfl athletes having far better standing vert's than NBA (at comparable heights/bodyweight), same for RVJ, 40 yard dash, broad jump etc?
the squat is apart of every football weightroom in america, from high school to college to nfl.... the squat is hardly apart of basketball weight rooms... does this have anything to do with the differences in power between nba and nfl athletes? is it all genetics/limb leverages?
what is it?
why is the nba bench press test 185, not 225 like nfl? is this simply due to longer arms or what? most point guards in nba can barely rep out 185 for anything impressive, yet defensive back's in nfl can rep 225 out 20+ times.. why is this?
what i'm asking is, why are nfl athletes so much more impressive than nba athletes for the vast majority?
thanks in advance for your detailed response, peace.
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This thread made me lol my head off, thanks guys. What it boils down to is some people dont want to hear that they just simply arent strong enough, they want to believe in magic and find some super secret extreme iso upside tuba playing tai chi meditation reverse grip fleshlight hold that will make them better. If you look around long enough there will be SOMEBODY out there agreeing with you, then when they get on the hamster wheel and dont improve, they give up and usually quit training.
squatting isnt even close to EVERYTHING there is to performance training, no one says that, it DESTROYS pedaling a bicycle, holding planks sideways, and jumping with medicine balls between the legs though. Its a great exercise to work a very large number of the muscles that need to be extremely strong and powerful for jumping and speed.
and lol at using kobe bryant as an example against squatting............
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdfrOa6spYI
11 seconds in, I missed the bike riding clip pulling up with the hip flexors as a primary focus (lmfao) though Im sure he does lots of those to focus on the most important performance muscles, the hip flexors.
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i found this extremely funny... irclog :F
[9:12pm] aiir: no homo
[9:12pm] adarq: sickenin is just getting raped
[9:12pm] adarq: so hard
[9:12pm] adarq: "i'd tell adarqui to improve his relative strength" -- sickenin
[9:12pm] adarq: derp
[9:12pm] adarq: no shit fuckface
[9:12pm] adarq: lmao
[9:13pm] aiir: lolol
[9:13pm] aiir: that was the whole point
[9:13pm] aiir: of the thread
[9:13pm] adarq: yup
[9:12pm] adarq: "i'd tell adarqui to improve his relative strength" -- sickenin
[9:13pm] aiir: that was the whole point
[9:12pm] adarq: "i'd tell adarqui to improve his relative strength" -- sickenin
[9:13pm] aiir: that was the whole point
[9:12pm] adarq: "i'd tell adarqui to improve his relative strength" -- sickenin
[9:13pm] aiir: that was the whole point
[9:12pm] adarq: "i'd tell adarqui to improve his relative strength" -- sickenin
[9:13pm] aiir: that was the whole point
[9:12pm] adarq: "i'd tell adarqui to improve his relative strength" -- sickenin
[9:13pm] aiir: that was the whole point
[9:12pm] adarq: "i'd tell adarqui to improve his relative strength" -- sickenin
[9:13pm] aiir: that was the whole point
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This thread made me lol my head off, thanks guys. What it boils down to is some people dont want to hear that they just simply arent strong enough, they want to believe in magic and find some super secret extreme iso upside tuba playing tai chi meditation reverse grip fleshlight hold that will make them better. If you look around long enough there will be SOMEBODY out there agreeing with you, then when they get on the hamster wheel and dont improve, they give up and usually quit training.
squatting isnt even close to EVERYTHING there is to performance training, no one says that, it DESTROYS pedaling a bicycle, holding planks sideways, and jumping with medicine balls between the legs though. Its a great exercise to work a very large number of the muscles that need to be extremely strong and powerful for jumping and speed.
and lol at using kobe bryant as an example against squatting............
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdfrOa6spYI
11 seconds in, I missed the bike riding clip pulling up with the hip flexors as a primary focus (lmfao) though Im sure he does lots of those to focus on the most important performance muscles, the hip flexors.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
btw lance, how did you miss the bicycle clip it's in there at 5.5-5.57 seconds.. quick frames, u need a quick eye.
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hah, no i saw it , thats why i said, im sure the reason hes doing it is to improve his hip flexor power because thats super important to him. Its not because in the offseason tons of nba guys get on the stationary bike since they are getting less court time.
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hah, no i saw it , thats why i said, im sure the reason hes doing it is to improve his hip flexor power because thats super important to him. Its not because in the offseason tons of nba guys get on the stationary bike since they are getting less court time.
what is your opinion on adding chains to the stationary bike? accommodating resistance for more explosion?
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hah, no i saw it , thats why i said, im sure the reason hes doing it is to improve his hip flexor power because thats super important to him. Its not because in the offseason tons of nba guys get on the stationary bike since they are getting less court time.
what is your opinion on adding chains to the stationary bike? accommodating resistance for more explosion?
It basically makes or breaks the exercise. Same with those squats, it is painfully obvious that the only benefits he is receiving is from the correctly hung chains, nothing to do with the 365lbs on the bar. Basically, if it isnt extremely complicated, it doesnt work. Rumor has it that was a boing vert session and everything was just a pre cursor to the med ball btl's though, they always hide the good shit.
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to the original poster. Basketball doesnt really have a weight lifting environment. With football every body wonders your bench, squat, and power clean. With basketball if you can bump it in the post/jump really high/dunk/look jacked/quick/explosive/etc. than no one really worries about the weight room. Yes some people can do this without really training too much for it.
for example: this kid at a park i play ball at can: dunk all kinds of ways at 5'8, is jacked and is quick as hell. ALL WITHOUT TRAINING.
for someone like me, I have to train for that.
Also with basketball you have to remember the hours needed for practice and playing trying to gain experience. ITs not like football where you don't practice as much. If you have the option of improving your athleticism or basketball iq/skills and both are decent at the nba level, I would always go for the skill and bball iq.
No one mentions it but ANDRE FUCKING MILLER. He is not an athlete but he is a BASKETBALL player.
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to the original poster. Basketball doesnt really have a weight lifting environment. With football every body wonders your bench, squat, and power clean. With basketball if you can bump it in the post/jump really high/dunk/look jacked/quick/explosive/etc. than no one really worries about the weight room. Yes some people can do this without really training too much for it.
for example: this kid at a park i play ball at can: dunk all kinds of ways at 5'8, is jacked and is quick as hell. ALL WITHOUT TRAINING.
for someone like me, I have to train for that.
Also with basketball you have to remember the hours needed for practice and playing trying to gain experience. ITs not like football where you don't practice as much. If you have the option of improving your athleticism or basketball iq/skills and both are decent at the nba level, I would always go for the skill and bball iq.
No one mentions it but ANDRE FUCKING MILLER. He is not an athlete but he is a BASKETBALL player.
That's what I thought until I saw this a while back.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etSJam5VgH8
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to the original poster. Basketball doesnt really have a weight lifting environment. With football every body wonders your bench, squat, and power clean. With basketball if you can bump it in the post/jump really high/dunk/look jacked/quick/explosive/etc. than no one really worries about the weight room. Yes some people can do this without really training too much for it.
for example: this kid at a park i play ball at can: dunk all kinds of ways at 5'8, is jacked and is quick as hell. ALL WITHOUT TRAINING.
for someone like me, I have to train for that.
Also with basketball you have to remember the hours needed for practice and playing trying to gain experience. ITs not like football where you don't practice as much. If you have the option of improving your athleticism or basketball iq/skills and both are decent at the nba level, I would always go for the skill and bball iq.
No one mentions it but ANDRE FUCKING MILLER. He is not an athlete but he is a BASKETBALL player.
That's what I thought until I saw this a while back.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etSJam5VgH8
what im saying is that he is not overly athletic or explosive. think of it this way, his skills/bball iq are GREATER than his athleticism and his playing career is longer than iverson a more athletic player
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I can assure you your hip flexors will get far more explosive on a bike (dedicating to it) than doing squats. It hits those hard. Try wearing ankle weights on a stationary bike and revving it fast for 10-20mins & use 1kg/2.5kg plates with your arm swings (20sec repeats). No way are you gonna be the slowest guy on court.
Try it.
Explosive hip flexors/explosive arm action & you will be blazin' to your first 5-10m. Gotta keep dedicated though.
For an elite bball player that can already run, ball & dunk who puts 100lbs on his squat in the off-season won't be coming back the new Kobe, lol.
LMFAO!!!
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sickenin, I noticed you have no log around here.... out of curiosity, what are your stats, and what is your training regimen?
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sickenin, I noticed you have no log around here.... out of curiosity, what are your stats, and what is your training regimen?
Nah, I don't have a log. I'm a sprinter man.
Love this forum for my lolz & lulz & the personalities round here.
what is your vertz?
(http://www.goathork.com/~brose/soapbox/uploaded_images/gaycyc1-715842.jpg)
strong hip flexor development.
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pictured above, pulling the pedal stroke back?
or no?
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sickenin, I noticed you have no log around here.... out of curiosity, what are your stats, and what is your training regimen?
do I really have to do this every time?
what are your stats, and what is your training regimen?
what are your stats, and what is your training regimen?
what are your stats, and what is your training regimen?
what are your stats, and what is your training regimen?
what are your stats, and what is your training regimen?
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If there's anything that catched my eye, it's Lance talking about a fleshlight some posts back. Can we please get back to that?
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How anyone failed to see Sickenin was trollin after his ~3rd reply is beyond me.
Got it to 8 pages tho? Good job, bruh.
I think the original post is quite interesting, these trainers obv know training in cycles of strength/power while maintaining balance would be a better option then just the functional stuff they're doing right now, I also think Andrew was right on the money in his first reply, so was Lance.
I absolutely do think safety and the $ are involved to a certain degree, which is a shame, 'cause proper training could further enhance the game and reduce injuries. However you'd think these trainers could teach a squat properly and know it's advantages so their reasoning would still be weird to me. These trainers get paid thousands of dollars and are (supposedly) highly educated, it just doesn't make any sense to not add serious strength and power to your athlete just because of safety, there has to be more to it.
One reason, I think, is not just safety, but also optimum basketball performance and longevity.
We have to keep in mind these guys routinely play 30-40 game minutes of extremely intense basketball for about 80/120 times a year. Highlighting game minutes, because I know the difference between an all out 3 hour practise session and 20 minutes of playing time all too well (ie. game time being more stressfull on the body; I'm absolutely dead after a game and can train twice a day for hours at a time easily, trainig-intensity obv varies, game-time not so much).
Keeping these guys light would make it easy on the joints and might help in the long run, furthermore, keeping them highly conditioned (not necesarily ox strong) iwhile keeping them effective is a top priority. Extra muscle, extra power might (again, MIGHT) wear on an athlete throughout the season. Implementing highly intense weight sessions after that season is over and before they go right into training-camp might seem like an overkill to the joints.
I'm not saying this reasoning is right for every situation, but I could understand it under some circumstances.
I also think it's a shame and it's probably also the reason we don't see huge transformations in player. For instance, I don't think Kevin Durant will pack muscle before the age of 29/30, the age he's likely to lose a step and is going to need another advantage.
What's amazing though, when that kind of need is there, with hungry athletes, you suddenly see a huge change (Think of the extra muscle Jordan was carrying after his return, think Kobe kobe packing 30 lbs over a single summer, losing it all the season after because of his knees).
The knowledge and capacity to change athletes is there, the need however, is not.
Can't say I agree, but I think I do understand.
PS, saw some comments on basketball and athleticism earlier.
In high level basketball, athleticism should not be underrated, pretty sure John stockton was a beast athlete, dude could defend guys twice his size, that's not just basketball IQ.
Only guy I could think of right now that wasn't a certified athlete that played in the NBA is Steve Kerr (6'3/175?) but he's one of the greatest shooters EVER. Height/weight is definately a HUGE aspect of being athletic. Just because a guy is kinda fat/slow, dude can still be effective athletically because of his height and mass.
Being able to utilize your specific athleticism creates a huge advantage over someone that does not poses the same kind of ability.
Long post n all over the place, not sure if I'm right, it's all speculation.
Hope it does push this discussion into the right direction though.
Pce
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to the original poster. Basketball doesnt really have a weight lifting environment. With football every body wonders your bench, squat, and power clean. With basketball if you can bump it in the post/jump really high/dunk/look jacked/quick/explosive/etc. than no one really worries about the weight room. Yes some people can do this without really training too much for it.
for example: this kid at a park i play ball at can: dunk all kinds of ways at 5'8, is jacked and is quick as hell. ALL WITHOUT TRAINING.
for someone like me, I have to train for that.
Also with basketball you have to remember the hours needed for practice and playing trying to gain experience. ITs not like football where you don't practice as much. If you have the option of improving your athleticism or basketball iq/skills and both are decent at the nba level, I would always go for the skill and bball iq.
No one mentions it but ANDRE FUCKING MILLER. He is not an athlete but he is a BASKETBALL player.
Jesus Christ, are you telling me anything I don't know or haven't said myself?
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to the original poster. Basketball doesnt really have a weight lifting environment. With football every body wonders your bench, squat, and power clean. With basketball if you can bump it in the post/jump really high/dunk/look jacked/quick/explosive/etc. than no one really worries about the weight room. Yes some people can do this without really training too much for it.
for example: this kid at a park i play ball at can: dunk all kinds of ways at 5'8, is jacked and is quick as hell. ALL WITHOUT TRAINING.
for someone like me, I have to train for that.
Also with basketball you have to remember the hours needed for practice and playing trying to gain experience. ITs not like football where you don't practice as much. If you have the option of improving your athleticism or basketball iq/skills and both are decent at the nba level, I would always go for the skill and bball iq.
No one mentions it but ANDRE FUCKING MILLER. He is not an athlete but he is a BASKETBALL player.
That's what I thought until I saw this a while back.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etSJam5VgH8
what im saying is that he is not overly athletic or explosive. think of it this way, his skills/bball iq are GREATER than his athleticism and his playing career is longer than iverson a more athletic player
WTF, Andre Miller came in the NBA 11 years ago. Iverson came in 15 years ago. How does that mean Miller's playing career is longer. Iverson has had unarguably a WAY BETTER CAREER. Iverson would still be in the league if it wasn't for his ego. Not his reliance on athleticism. His skills nd bball iq > Andre anyways so it doesn't even matter.
People think athletic players are low bball iq, and slow and steady players high bball iq. If you have Derrick Rose athleticism, it's SMARTTTTT to explode all over the freakin court. If your Iverson quick, it's SMART to take advantage of it all the time. Doesn't mean their bball IQ/skills are not up to par.
Your bringing up a point everyone here including me has already confirmed, we agree skills > athleticism in basketball. BUT that is hardly the topic being discussed. Way to not contribute to the discussion at hand.
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How anyone failed to see Sickenin was trollin after his ~3rd reply is beyond me.
Got it to 8 pages tho? Good job, bruh.
Great comments Jard.
That is what I was meant to say from ~3rd reply.
(http://chzmemebase.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/memes-loses-argument1.jpg)
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So... Waffle racers better for developing feet than Vibrams, why? :)
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If Louie put 1000lbs on a average player's squat in the off-season, they ain't coming back no Kobe.
Well no, they wouldn't, because it takes skill to be Kobe. It depends on what you're talking about: athleticism or basketball skill. Different things, although related.
Also, regardless of how strong you make a guy, he's still going to have the same structure, limb lenghts, tendons, so on and so forth, but strength is an alterable quality and helps with athleticism.
So you have to bear that in mind.
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Loses argument.
Which argument?.
All I was saying was that having guys like Louie Simmons, Usian Bolt or the top conditioners on the planet on board in your coaching staff doesn't necessarily mean your going to start winning championships.
If Louie put 1000lbs on a average player's squat in the off-season, they ain't coming back no Kobe.
However you'd think these trainers could teach a squat properly and know it's advantages so their reasoning would still be weird to me.
Cos most of them are already genetically gifted (for there position) with either height/spring/mass/strength/speed or a combo they already have in there arsenals to play the game.
That is STILL not the point being made in this thread. Post anywhere you want, but please just stop posting in here, you have somehow been counter-arguing my main points with completely UN-RELATED stuff for 9 PAGES NOW jeezus...
Funny thing is, everyone reading this thread seems to know what kind of discussion I'm trying to bring up, and what points I'm trying to make, EXCEPT YOU, ONLY YOU... It is not a difficult thing to understand.
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Damn...I mean, seriously....just wow. :-\
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Cliffs?
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Cliffs?
(http://images.uulyrics.com/cover/g/guillemots/album-from-the-cliffs.jpg)