Adarq.org
Performance Area => Strength, Power, Reactivity, & Speed Discussion => Topic started by: flyingthunder on July 24, 2012, 09:17:23 am
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Hey I´m about to build a new workout routine but I don´t know how many exercises I should put in.
How many strenght and plyometric exercises I should use ?
About me : just look at my signature ;)
So what you suggest ?
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OP, i think you mean "size" in your sig there.
and the answer is all of the exercises. or, in other words, your question is completely useless without more information. take a look around the forum, there's a thread somewhere about baseline information. fill that out and post it. then see where you're at.
EDIT: found that form for you.
AGE:
HEIGHT:
REACH:
WEIGHT:
SLEEP SCHEDULE:
BODY TYPE:
GOALS:
CURRENT ABILITY:
INJURY HISTORY:
TRAINING HISTORY & ACHIEVEMENTS:
CURRENT ACTIVITY LEVEL AND/OR TRAINING PROGRAM:
BRIEF OVERVIEW OF CURRENT DIET:
IMPORTANT ACTIVITIES:
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what is your specific goal?
my goal is getting more atlethic und faster to be better in basketballOP, i think you mean "size" in your sig there.
and the answer is all of the exercises. or, in other words, your question is completely useless without more information. take a look around the forum, there's a thread somewhere about baseline information. fill that out and post it. then see where you're at.
EDIT: found that form for you.
AGE: 17
HEIGHT: 186cm
REACH: 237cm
WEIGHT: 72kg
SLEEP SCHEDULE: getting about 7-8 hours of sleep
BODY TYPE: natural skinny but got pretty muscular since i´m lifting
GOALS:dunking, getting faster, be a better baller, 35 inches RVJ
CURRENT ABILITY:RVJ about 29 inches
INJURY HISTORY:had some knee problems but they´re gone since I my growth ended
TRAINING HISTORY & ACHIEVEMENTS:weightlifting since a year, some plyometrics
CURRENT ACTIVITY LEVEL AND/OR TRAINING PROGRAM: did a routine of the Vertical jump bible for 3 months, lifting 3-4 times a week, some pick up games
BRIEF OVERVIEW OF CURRENT DIET: trying to eat healthy end getting a lot of protein
IMPORTANT ACTIVITIES:
sorry if my language is bad, English isn´t my mothertongue :wowthatwasnutswtf:
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:welcome:
Choice #1 :
http://www.adarq.org/forum/performance-training-blog/an-introductory-block/
Choice #2 :
http://www.adarq.org/forum/program-review/jackm-split/
Choice #3 :
http://www.higher-faster-sports.com/theultimatesplit.html
Choice #4 :
http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/Starting_Strength_Wiki
With your age and experience , they will all work.
If i were you, at this point i would choose a more strength oriented program ( choices 2 and 4 ). You will have to worry about explosive lifts and RFD much later.
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Thanks for the tips. So does that mean that i shouldn't Do mich plyos till i am able to squat 1.5 of my bodyweight ?
From what i've read in the vjb it's most effective to use plyos and weighttraining at the same time.
I have found a strenght based routine in the vjb which incloudes 3-4 plyos would that be ok ?
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what do you mean by "plyos"?
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Plyometrics
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Plyometrics
He means what exercises are you referring to as "plyos". If youre doing things like stiff leg ankle hops and line hops, thats fine for you. If youre doing things like depth jumps and high intensity bounding, youre not ready for that yet.
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I'm playing on a team. How long should I only go for strenght ? When I have my Max squat on 115 kg ? That would be1.5 of my Bodyweight
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As long as you're balling somewhat regularly, the most important thing for you is to get bigger (put on weight) and to increase your squat numbers. Get big, get strong, jump high.
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ok thanks to all of you. So I´m going to squat 2 times a week and put in 2-3 light plyometrics
How long do you think will it take to get my squat high enough for more heavy plyometrics and how long to reach my goal of 35 inches ?
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Nobody can really say. Some people can just look at a squat rack and they'll be squatting 2x their bw in no time. For others (like myself) it can take months, maybe even years to be able to squat 2x bw. The point is just to try and get as strong as you possibly can while keeping your bodyfat low.
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Hello OP,
to squat 115 kg should be a matter of weeks for you if your squat is currently at 90 kg x 6. It certainly should not take you longer than 5 weeks. The 2 x bw squat should also be much more of a mid-term goal than long-term. If as an athlete it takes you years to get there, as mutumbo seems to indicate, something went very wrong along the way.
It is btw. impossible to predict how much it takes for you to be able to jump 35. Some never get there. All one can really do is train correctly.
I want to emphasize that time is precious. A goal like this has a decay meter. For most people a large percentage of the progress in vertical happens in a relatively compact time frame. The reason for this is to a degree a psychological one, but age can a play a role as well. Momentum is a largely underestimated factor in training in general. This is why cycling between strength and power phases, between gaining weight and losing weight, between program X and program Y is a huge waste of time and should, if possible, be minimized. A sub-goal like squat 2x should also be dealt with ASAP, not adjourned over and over in favor of some other stuff. Once you are decently strong in the squat and deadlift and can powerclean an adequate amount, you can fine tune stuff with snatch variations and plyometrics. But really, before you are strong, you do not need to worry. For as long as it works, which differs with individuals, increasing your squat generates the most reliable and easy to get progress in VJ there is.
I recommend you to read this book btw., if you are serious about your training. It will do you a ton of good and put some of the stuff you read on forums into perspective: http://aasgaardco.com/store/store.php?crn=199&rn=413&action=show_detail
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ok so with the 1.5 of my bodyweight squat I got my goal for the holidays :D
Never did any deadlifting cause of lower back problems but I will try in the next weeks. So thanks for all the good advice hopfully I´m able to throw done regullary at the end of my holidays :ibjumping:. Now sometimes it works and sometimes not
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^ focus on lifting form more than anything else. with proper food.rest.sleep, the poundage will always improve. go as low as your flexibilty allows - if its above parallel, work on your flexibility and buy some decent shoes.
do some jumping every now and then but don't get crazy on the plyo/jumping volumes. almost all jump trainess fail here - they get hurt, usually with some form of knee or joint injury of some kind.
here's me at 92" reach (1" shorter than yours) doing my routine jump drills post squats - if you prefer to squat your way to a high 30s/low 40s SVJ.. i took the easy way to jumping high.. squat.jump.lowBF. good luck!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDScwmqe1kk
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Ok, so I might be crazy or overly optimistic that you don't have ridiculously poor genetics, but for a 17 year old 6'1 160lb guy with a 29" vert looking to increase his vert 6" and run faster, I'm thinking that you don't even need to hit the weight room, all you need is a decent size box or a park bench and 2 jugs of water or a bookbag full of books.
If I were in your shoes I'd do the following:
1. Stretch daily 10-15 min
2. Before playing basketball perform 2-3 sets of 10 rim jumps and practice/attempt to dunk if you'd like
3. Perform Sprints & BW movements 3 mornings a week. Ex:
3-4 sets of 6-8 1 leg BW squats (i.e. sit on the box/chair/park bench and stand up using only the power of 1 leg)
3-4 sets explosive box step ups
3-4 sets of SL and DL box jumps
3-4 sets of Lunges (forward & lateral)
If/once any of those get easy, hold the jugs of water and do them
4. Do 6-10 40yd sprints 2-3x a week.
Once you've reached a point where the above BW movements are too easy for you to continue making gains, then I'd look into joining a gym but for now w/those numbers I don't see the need. And as Kingfish said eat well and get proper sleep.
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Ok, so I might be crazy or overly optimistic that you don't have ridiculously poor genetics, but for a 17 year old 6'1 160lb guy with a 29" vert looking to increase his vert 6" and run faster, I'm thinking that you don't even need to hit the weight room, all you need is a decent size box or a park bench and 2 jugs of water or a bookbag full of books.
If I were in your shoes I'd do the following:
1. Stretch daily 10-15 min
2. Before playing basketball perform 2-3 sets of 10 rim jumps and practice/attempt to dunk if you'd like
3. Perform Sprints & BW movements 3 mornings a week. Ex:
3-4 sets of 6-8 1 leg BW squats (i.e. sit on the box/chair/park bench and stand up using only the power of 1 leg)
3-4 sets explosive box step ups
3-4 sets of SL and DL box jumps
3-4 sets of Lunges (forward & lateral)
If/once any of those get easy, hold the jugs of water and do them
4. Do 6-10 40yd sprints 2-3x a week.
Once you've reached a point where the above BW movements are too easy for you to continue making gains, then I'd look into joining a gym but for now w/those numbers I don't see the need. And as Kingfish said eat well and get proper sleep.
And why would you have him do something ineffective and unproductive that most don't succeed with rather than something that works well for most people?
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And why would you have him do something ineffective and unproductive that most don't succeed with rather than something that works well for most people?
Your "something that works well for most people" is to lift weights and get stronger. My "something ineffective and unproductive that most don't succeed with" is to to use BW for as long as it provides enough resistance to make the movements difficult. In my experience working out w/teenage basketball players w/similar thin frames, BW is sufficient resistance. Not to mention more convenient than relying on mom or dad for a ride to the gym and coming up with $ for gym fees. Hence my recommendation.
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steven miller:
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5t6-Ob1cM_Q/S-Ni2qYdETI/AAAAAAAABeI/qV1mntck49c/s1600/pic%20of%20person%20with%20hammer.gif)
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I´ve done some training to get to the 29 inches 2 months of lifting and plyometrics. And I´ve got a gym membership so thats no problem at all ;) I think training my jumping technique could give me a few inches, too cause I think my form is not that good :D
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And why would you have him do something ineffective and unproductive that most don't succeed with rather than something that works well for most people?
Your "something that works well for most people" is to lift weights and get stronger. My "something ineffective and unproductive that most don't succeed with" is to to use BW for as long as it provides enough resistance to make the movements difficult. In my experience working out w/teenage basketball players w/similar thin frames, BW is sufficient resistance. Not to mention more convenient than relying on mom or dad for a ride to the gym and coming up with $ for gym fees. Hence my recommendation.
It is certainly more convenient, I will give you that, and it is also a waste of time. BW will stop to appear as sufficient resistance once you work with a group of people that do not automatically get stronger by maturing. Otherwise players in my former volleyball teams would actually have improved their verticals over time - which obviously never happened. And those coaches thought they were doing strength training...
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lol at chrisbro1's caveman/air alert work out. That is a good recipe for bad knees/joints in the future. Thats for ppl trying to be somewhat athletic
or you can start your journey on being an elite athlete= powerlifting + intense bball games + great food/nutrition
when you get real strong and bball skills real nice, then you focus on the intense plyo's / explosiveness bball drills like resistance band stuff and full contact drills
Actually a decent program, and OP would probably experience gains from it. There's no reason why he can't add weights to it, though.
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In all honesty, neither is what you prescribed, hyper. Intense b-ball games won't help this dude as much as an actual program set around max effort jumping and sprinting and squats.
At any rate, thunder, you say you've been working out, both lifting and plyometrics. What exactly have you been doing?
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hyperdunk, for someone who constantly asks endless questions on here, you sure do spit out lots of "knowledge" and "advice" as if you know so well.
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I´ve done squat´s leg curls and split squats as strenght exercises and a plyometric routine out of the vertical jump bible with 6-7 exercises. By doing that I felt overtrained so after every 4 week a took a week off. So my question about the volume and stuff was cause of that
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I´ve done squat´s leg curls and split squats as strenght exercises and a plyometric routine out of the vertical jump bible with 6-7 exercises. By doing that I felt overtrained so after every 4 week a took a week off. So my question about the volume and stuff was cause of that
you have not yet, in a single post except maybe the one where i gave you a form to fill out, provided enough information for anyone to give you a meaningful response.
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BW will stop to appear as sufficient resistance once you work with a group of people that do not automatically get stronger by maturing.
I disagree with this (w/out going into detail, we have plenty of mature adults on this site using BW exercises such as GHR, dips, pullups etc to increase strength) and also, the OP is 17 which still has him in that maturing stage.
Anyway, my reply was just a suggestion as I strongly believe in looking to BW as resistance first for people who are new to training.
lol at chrisbro1's caveman/air alert work out. That is a good recipe for bad knees/joints in the future. Thats for ppl trying to be somewhat athletic
or you can start your journey on being an elite athlete= powerlifting + intense bball games + great food/nutrition
when you get real strong and bball skills real nice, then you focus on the intense plyo's / explosiveness bball drills like resistance band stuff and full contact drills
(http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/24003251.jpg)
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I´ve done squat´s leg curls and split squats as strenght exercises and a plyometric routine out of the vertical jump bible with 6-7 exercises. By doing that I felt overtrained so after every 4 week a took a week off. So my question about the volume and stuff was cause of that
you have not yet, in a single post except maybe the one where i gave you a form to fill out, provided enough information for anyone to give you a meaningful response.
What informations exactly are missing ? Trying to pu them all together now
AGE:17
HEIGHT:6.1
REACH:237cm
WEIGHT:72kg, bodyfat about 6%
SLEEP SCHEDULE: 7-8 hours
BODY TYPE:natural skinny but I put on some muscle
GOALS:35 inches vertical RVJ
CURRENT ABILITY:squat 6x90kg, 29 inches RVJ
INJURY HISTORY:some knee problem cause of my growth done since half a year
TRAINING HISTORY & ACHIEVEMENTS:Lifting weights since a year more intence leg training since 3 months with squats, split squats and leg curls(before that mostly upper body training with bench pressn incline bench press, chin ups, rows, shoulder press,reverse flyes, dips curls and some core stabilasation) playing basketball since 3 years training 2 times a week for 6 weeks from now on no training
CURRENT ACTIVITY LEVEL AND/OR TRAINING PROGRAM:the above strenght workout for 3 months+the beginners plyometrics out of the vertical jump bible(6-7 exercises per workout)
BRIEF OVERVIEW OF CURRENT DIET:trying to eat good and healthy and get as mucxh protein as possivle
IMPORTANT ACTIVITIES:some pickup games, weight lifting
I hope that´s all the information you need if not just tell me
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ok thanks to all of you. So I´m going to squat 2 times a week and put in 2-3 light plyometrics
How long do you think will it take to get my squat high enough for more heavy plyometrics and how long to reach my goal of 35 inches ?
A long time if you're squatting twice a week only. Even longer to get to 35".
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ok thanks to all of you. So I´m going to squat 2 times a week and put in 2-3 light plyometrics
How long do you think will it take to get my squat high enough for more heavy plyometrics and how long to reach my goal of 35 inches ?
A long time if you're squatting twice a week only. Even longer to get to 35".
- Squatting twice is a week is fine. Sure some people respond well to three times a week, but for some people respond better to twice a week. By "only" are you implying even squatting four times a week? Again, there's no basis on telling him he can't get his strength optimally up fast if he doesnt squat 3-4x a week. 2x a week works fine for most, if it's not already the best for them.
- He weighs 72kg and reps 90kg 6 times. Provided with correct training + optimum diet, he can get to 1.5x+ BW squat fairly quickly I would say. Of course like I hinted at earlier, everyone is so different so no way of telling. At over 1.5x BW with a low BF as he has (6%), he should be able to get into high intensity plyo's provided his overall fitness is fine.
- 29" to 35" is a lot. You still never know though. With his weak relative strength which can potentially go up quickly, and assuming he is a double leg jumper (not saying this won't work for single leg jumpers), and being only 17 years old and potentially having his body go through more maturing, in the best case scenario he can get those 6" quickly. Not saying it will happen, but don't just shut it down so easily.
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I think I´m not able to squat more than 2 times a week when I´m doing that with 5x5 and playing a few times a week some ball my legs would be totally fucked up :D
I could jump single leged and double leged but my single leged is a bit better. But I got some technical issues with my double leged jump