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Performance Area => Strength, Power, Reactivity, & Speed Discussion => Topic started by: fast does lie on September 07, 2017, 08:29:57 pm

Title: I am going kamikaze in this.....
Post by: fast does lie on September 07, 2017, 08:29:57 pm
Since i have a hip groin issue thag acts up only during hard cuts, jumps, and lateral movements.

I plan on just squat and deadlift until i reach 425 full squat regularly or until injury.

Will not stop until 425 or injury.

Please object or root for my quads/posterior chain, ty

edit- going to just lift as hard as I can Squat and Deadlift until I reach 425 full squat. Will not rest much in between. Will not care if I get injury or not. Invested too much into this now.....

Title: Re: I am going kamikaze in this.....
Post by: fast does lie on September 08, 2017, 03:51:38 am
My guess is I've invested the equivalence of $30,000 in equipment and time last 6 months trying to see what my full athletic potential actually is. I have good technique on jump and good brain for it, imo, and that right there is some confidence.

I just turned 33 now, no joke, time is not on my side.

This is my Mt Everest. I have never been sub 15% bf since 16 yrs old

Maybe I need to take some kind of growth hormone to offset my age, to really see what my true athletic potential is had I been training at 22 yrs old .....
Title: Re: I am going kamikaze in this.....
Post by: LBSS on September 08, 2017, 06:28:03 am
you need to lose some fat. doesn't cost $30,000, does cost a lot of willpower. will be more effective at boosting your athleticism than any equipment or most training, really.
Title: Re: I am going kamikaze in this.....
Post by: maxent on September 08, 2017, 06:41:07 am
It also brings your hormonal profile closer to an athletic one.
Title: Re: I am going kamikaze in this.....
Post by: adarqui on September 08, 2017, 03:42:41 pm
My guess is I've invested the equivalence of $30,000 in equipment and time last 6 months trying to see what my full athletic potential actually is. I have good technique on jump and good brain for it, imo, and that right there is some confidence.

I just turned 33 now, no joke, time is not on my side.

This is my Mt Everest. I have never been sub 15% bf since 16 yrs old

Maybe I need to take some kind of growth hormone to offset my age, to really see what my true athletic potential is had I been training at 22 yrs old .....

I agree with maxent & LBSS.



pharmaceutical cheat codes are dangerous. if you're even considering that, at this stage, i'd say you've definitely stumbled on to the "wrong track".

if you were already in "peak athletic condition", and were contemplating PED's/pharma to push yourself past your limits, that would be more understandable. That's when you contemplate something like that (if you aren't anti PED), not when you can make tons of gains the simple way.

losing fat is easier, the more you have.

gaining muscle is easier, the less you have.

improving fitness, is easier the less you have.

improving vert & speed, is easier the more detrained you are.

you have most of those things in your favor right now .. focus on the basics & make progress. People look towards everything but the basics, when trying to make progress. It's really incredible when you think about it. I'm on another forum where there's tons of "bodybuilder" types, and it's incredible how much sh*t people consider without first considering proper training. They are interested in all kinds of pharma when simple cardio or high frequency lifting in comnination with a proper diet, would do the job. It's mind blowing to me.

I personally would never take anything that risks my health or threatens to shorten life span, just to gain muscle, lose fat, or improve performance. To me, that is "disordered". It's interesting to me that the "substance abuse bodybuilding" crowd is not considered disordered - I think because it's such a huge money making market. Here, people are shortening their life spans by many years, dealing with all kinds of adverse health effects, taking all kinds of crazy chemical concoctions, just to change their appearance. Most of these people utilize this stuff way too early - hard training & proper diet would have given them the same & better results. It's incredible how many people fall for this pharma garbage IMHO. I mean to each their own, but, I personally respect natural bodybuilders & such who achieve their physics by just eating clean, lifting hard, and staying healthy. Somewhat of a rant, but, I just feel like resorting to things like TRT/hGH & such is usually considered way too early, which sounds all kinds of alarms to me.

Same thing goes for the performance crowd. You just have to be so careful. What if taking steroids/hgh caused you to really grow fast, but your tendons lagged behind & you end up wrecking one? That's the age old story about PED use and performance: muscles grow fast, tendons/ligaments don't .. injury risk sky rockets. So that's a major concern, among many others.

Also, "will not stop until 425 or injury" sounds self destructive. That was basically my advice/warning to you in your journal, I can see you doing stuff like this. Everyone on here admires determination, but if determination is really kamikaze self destruction, it's not determination. It's hard to snap out of this mindset, so not sure how to convince you to be more patient and/or work on weaknesses while dealing with your current injury. I mean in the end that's your decision. But, I guess I also speak with alot of experience in that department, so it's easier for me to recognize when people are going down that path.

One thing I think more people need to realize is, the "want it now motivation" is *usually* a recipe used by those who are unsuccessful. These are usually the people who want to transform themselves at some point, but are just so impatient, they want to achieve it as soon as possible. The flip side is the elite/pro/dedicated athlete who seems to understand it's a very slow grind that will take many years of extremely hard, focused, dedicated training.

beyond that, health #1
Title: Re: I am going kamikaze in this.....
Post by: fast does lie on September 08, 2017, 09:15:26 pm
Sorry: did not mean to annoy people with this post.... because: My hip/groin issue keeps acting up during my main source of cardio/plyos: bball high intensity training. And I had some free time.

LBSS: yeah losing fat will inevitably happen imo, I'm trying to make my strength, flexibility, knowledge, top notch as I'm losing the fat.

Adarq: No I am not contemplating using drugs; it was just kind of a hypothetical statement wondering IF using growth hormone NOW would be a simulation of say had I started training at age 22..... like IF using drugs now would be equivalence of training at age 22.....

The reason i come off as having the "I want it now" mentality is because I just turned 33, and I'm working against father time a little bit....
Title: Re: I am going kamikaze in this.....
Post by: fast does lie on September 12, 2017, 04:16:00 pm
It also brings your hormonal profile closer to an athletic one.

Oh yeah losing fat increases good hormone levels right?

I keep not be able to lose fat because i get scared of losing strength. Cause seems like strength is so important..... like kingfish doing a 2 handed dunk from standstill lol at 5'10 thats fuckin impressive man.......
Title: Re: I am going kamikaze in this.....
Post by: adarqui on September 12, 2017, 05:48:13 pm
It also brings your hormonal profile closer to an athletic one.

Oh yeah losing fat increases good hormone levels right?

I keep not be able to lose fat because i get scared of losing strength. Cause seems like strength is so important..... like kingfish doing a 2 handed dunk from standstill lol at 5'10 thats fuckin impressive man.......

what was kingfish's body fat % when he did that? I never recall him having too much fat on him .. also, losing too much fat can actually be bad for hormone levels, but that's in the <= 5% range I imagine.. a safe body fat % for pretty much any male is 8-10%. Getting too low can be a problem, but, if you have to worry about that problem you're probably in a good spot or have an eating disorder etc. So don't worry about anything until you hit 10% for example.

also, lots of strength loss while losing fat, is temporary. If you lose a considerable amount of muscle, then ya it's real. If you're losing fat slowly while performing maintenance lifting (~3 x ~10-12) to maintain muscle mass, strength comes back fast when you start fueling up again. Also, you could always just refuel once in a while to have a really good strength workout.

there's a bunch of trade offs that one must weigh & choose between. All I know, from experience, is once I get lean, I can regain strength fast .. and I don't really lose too much strength anyway as im getting lean, because I do it over such a long period of time.

peace
Title: Re: I am going kamikaze in this.....
Post by: fast does lie on September 12, 2017, 06:08:03 pm
Yeah you're totally right. I need to start walk the walk and start shedding the fat and pounds and start to make an effort to eat less and more clean.....

But honestly, like right now, I just trained in the morning for 2.5 hrs, than went to play bball for another 1 hour (tried to do all the intangibles and let the in shape guards do their thing) .... so now im finally relaxed ready to call it a day......

And I really don't feel like eating clean, i want to just max out on some comfort food like chicken pot pie, potatoes and a whoel bunch of tasty meats like meatloaf, burger, wings, ribs, steaks, alfredo etc

and get nice long sleep to train again tomorrow...... just hard to lose fat for me..... i could literally eat a 5000 kcal meal right now, not even joking lol.....
Title: Re: I am going kamikaze in this.....
Post by: arnoud on September 13, 2017, 04:35:06 am
Dude,

I'm 36. Still jumping as high as when I was 25. Only difference is that I'm a lot heavier, and need to drop a lot of fat (I was heavy squatting in the Rippetoe era). Don't worry about age. Keep training, but don't force it, it will only lead to injury, I've been down that road. As long as you keep training, vert will improve. But take your time!

Also, in my humble opinion, full squatting isn't the only way to jump really high. There are tons of other exercises to achieve the same.

Keep it up
Title: Re: I am going kamikaze in this.....
Post by: fast does lie on September 13, 2017, 05:38:23 am
Dude,

I'm 36. Still jumping as high as when I was 25. Only difference is that I'm a lot heavier, and need to drop a lot of fat (I was heavy squatting in the Rippetoe era). Don't worry about age. Keep training, but don't force it, it will only lead to injury, I've been down that road. As long as you keep training, vert will improve. But take your time!

Also, in my humble opinion, full squatting isn't the only way to jump really high. There are tons of other exercises to achieve the same.

Keep it up

Thanks, what are the tons of other exercises.... I know stuff like boingvert and air alert are pretty bad and unscientific.

Edit- why i even ask that question..... forgot about this site: https://www.just-fly-sports.com/
Title: Re: I am going kamikaze in this.....
Post by: fast does lie on September 13, 2017, 06:02:58 am
Thanks for the care, support, and input from everyone.....

Part of this post was just me steaming about not being able to keep up with some of the just out of college young bball players at 22-25 yrs old, who never lift, eat like crap, smoking and drinking now, and still flying.

I keep forgetting I have tons of improvement and gains to make, since I am so fat and heavy, so no wonder I'm going to be sore everyday and feel slow.
Title: Re: I am going kamikaze in this.....
Post by: seifullaah73 on September 13, 2017, 06:10:15 am
As much as I agree with arnoud there are tons of workout, but as I adarq said in the sprint thread that simplicity is key, all you need are the basic strength workouts to develop strength, then power workouts to transfer that strength to power by doing plyometric or explosive workouts. But avoid being creative and doing any fancy workouts.
Title: Re: I am going kamikaze in this.....
Post by: fast does lie on September 13, 2017, 06:28:41 am
As much as I agree with arnoud there are tons of workout, but as I adarq said in the sprint thread that simplicity is key, all you need are the basic strength workouts to develop strength, then power workouts to transfer that strength to power by doing plyometric or explosive workouts. But avoid being creative and doing any fancy workouts.

Hmmm interesting, Joel Smith does come up with many fancy workouts .....
Title: Re: I am going kamikaze in this.....
Post by: Joe on September 13, 2017, 07:20:40 am
As much as I agree with arnoud there are tons of workout, but as I adarq said in the sprint thread that simplicity is key, all you need are the basic strength workouts to develop strength, then power workouts to transfer that strength to power by doing plyometric or explosive workouts. But avoid being creative and doing any fancy workouts.

Hmmm interesting, Joel Smith does come up with many fancy workouts .....

Fancy workouts are good too when you need them. You almost certainly don't need them yet, though.
Title: Re: I am going kamikaze in this.....
Post by: arnoud on September 13, 2017, 07:36:56 am
As much as I agree with arnoud there are tons of workout, but as I adarq said in the sprint thread that simplicity is key, all you need are the basic strength workouts to develop strength, then power workouts to transfer that strength to power by doing plyometric or explosive workouts. But avoid being creative and doing any fancy workouts.

I mentioned other exercises, not fancy workouts. Trap bar deadlifts, bulgarian split squats, box squats, half squats all achieve the same.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXVs3B5WAgI
Title: Re: I am going kamikaze in this.....
Post by: arnoud on September 13, 2017, 07:44:45 am
Different dude, huge bulgarian split squat

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eB24oz56yLw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VGmqdlb9Bg
Title: Re: I am going kamikaze in this.....
Post by: Kingfish on September 13, 2017, 08:07:36 am
^ he also uses the secret helicopter armswing that adds inches to your jump.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgkCxnSHV7w
Title: Re: I am going kamikaze in this.....
Post by: arnoud on September 13, 2017, 08:49:33 am
I forgot to mention the helicopter swing...
Title: Re: I am going kamikaze in this.....
Post by: fast does lie on September 13, 2017, 09:56:19 am
^ he also uses the secret helicopter armswing that adds inches to your jump.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgkCxnSHV7w

Very nice, but this wasn't 100% SVJ, he took a tiny hop before the jump which helped propel him a bit higher imo.
Title: Re: I am going kamikaze in this.....
Post by: adarqui on September 13, 2017, 02:19:22 pm
Dude,

I'm 36. Still jumping as high as when I was 25. Only difference is that I'm a lot heavier, and need to drop a lot of fat (I was heavy squatting in the Rippetoe era). Don't worry about age. Keep training, but don't force it, it will only lead to injury, I've been down that road. As long as you keep training, vert will improve. But take your time!

Also, in my humble opinion, full squatting isn't the only way to jump really high. There are tons of other exercises to achieve the same.

Keep it up

nice!! and x2



As much as I agree with arnoud there are tons of workout, but as I adarq said in the sprint thread that simplicity is key, all you need are the basic strength workouts to develop strength, then power workouts to transfer that strength to power by doing plyometric or explosive workouts. But avoid being creative and doing any fancy workouts.

x2 x2



As much as I agree with arnoud there are tons of workout, but as I adarq said in the sprint thread that simplicity is key, all you need are the basic strength workouts to develop strength, then power workouts to transfer that strength to power by doing plyometric or explosive workouts. But avoid being creative and doing any fancy workouts.

Hmmm interesting, Joel Smith does come up with many fancy workouts .....

x2 .. he utilizes some stuff from Schroeder, inno-sport, WGF, & gait guys, but he's not a full blown brainwashed cult member that's for sure. Joel seems to sprinkle some of those "fancy" exercises which he finds most effective, on top of the basics, which is why he will most likely continue to be successful. It's when people dive into the "magic" empty pool head first where they get destroyed. It's the reason I left the DB Hammer forum so long ago. I realized that forum was toxic poison, people becoming convinced of some system by some "artificial coach", training humans like they are intricate machines, using tons of protocols & exercises which have not been fully vetted or refined. Plus much of it drew from ideas created by Jay Schroeder and such. I'm sorry but I personally have a very hard time digesting ideas & concepts from someone who is a compulsive liar, no matter how good they sound. That DB Hammer forum was one of the worst things that happened to my brain as an athlete and at the time, a coach. /rant

The WGF Forum was even worse. That's where that LDISO fake coach promoted 5 minute isos all day long.

One day we'll probably uncover a plot by Putin to ruin American athletics, and his bread & butter: variations of isometrics & snakeoil salesmen. :ninja:

I'm curious to see what Joel does with "overthehilldunker". The first video he dropped, looked very inno, which worries me a bit. But we'll see.. Hoping for success obviously.



As much as I agree with arnoud there are tons of workout, but as I adarq said in the sprint thread that simplicity is key, all you need are the basic strength workouts to develop strength, then power workouts to transfer that strength to power by doing plyometric or explosive workouts. But avoid being creative and doing any fancy workouts.

Hmmm interesting, Joel Smith does come up with many fancy workouts .....

Fancy workouts are good too when you need them. You almost certainly don't need them yet, though.

x2

some advanced fancy stuff like drops, high box depth jumps, single leg bounds, banded/chain accommodating resistance, can be very effective. Some less fancy stuff like low level reactive work can be very effective also, such as stiff leg pogos, MR tuck jumps, double leg bounds, line hop drills, med ball throw variations, plate swings, etc.

most people wouldn't even consider that fancy, because people are just inundated with fanciness everywhere. But to me, even those things fit somewhere in the fancy category. The basics for athletes, runners, jumpers, and sprinters are sport specific skill training (if applicable), basic lifts/strength exercises (bilateral lower body push (back/front squat), unilateral lower body push (lunge/bss/stepup), upper body push (bench/overhead press/dips), upper body pull (rows/pullups-chins-etc), and some assistance rdl/curl/calf raises etc), cardio, running, sprinting, jumping, and focusing on things like body composition, nutrition, sleep, progress tracking, nutrition timing, training timing, flexibility/mobility etc.. so, just some fundamentals and learning how to put them together for ones self & ones life constrained to things like school, job, family, responsibilities etc. A good coach can definitely help, but most of us on forums like this don't have a coach and probably don't want one, there's a "figuring it out" aspect that lots of people enjoy. Also, obviously there is room for adjustment and inclusion/exclusion of some things in the exercise department, specific to ones sport/goals etc, but to dive into routines which comprise a majority of "fancy stuff" without having a good understanding of improving these basics, is a major problem IMHO.

so when I speak about fancy stuff, it's pretty much anything that falls out of that tiny core framework. The thing is, that core framework is so important. People want to rush into the "fancy stuff" without addressing their sleep patterns, nutrition, timing, core lifts, etc. This is where S&C falls apart in my opinion. That core framework has so much potential for growth it's incredible. Really drilling down on it and figuring out how things fit together, per individual, is just so incredibly important. Everyone wants to do the fun stuff, but IMHO, from what i've seen and experienced, it's the mastery of the mundane which gets you the real results. Monotony, mundane, boring, those are important attributes of good routines it seems.

edit: I'm guilty of many of the things I mentioned above!! I've also gotten it "right" a few times, and when I get it right, it's usually pretty simple (definitely monotonous) with nearly everything falling in to place.



dno went off on some tangents.

pc!
Title: Re: I am going kamikaze in this.....
Post by: adarqui on September 13, 2017, 02:25:59 pm
lol @ helicopter arms

^ he also uses the secret helicopter armswing that adds inches to your jump.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgkCxnSHV7w

Very nice, but this wasn't 100% SVJ, he took a tiny hop before the jump which helped propel him a bit higher imo.

tried to find a vid of him not hopping, there's a few videos of him, but he takes that little slight hop before each one. can't really tell in this one but i'm sure he did it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8eeG-i8jX0

dude gets up disgusting.
Title: Re: I am going kamikaze in this.....
Post by: fast does lie on September 14, 2017, 09:22:20 am
Just had the worst possible workout possible.

Got 7 hours of sleep, went to the gym. Felt tight. Tried to loosen up for 1 hour. Could not even full squat 135, 225 felt like 500 lb.

I think I gain pure fat on bulks and lose pure muscle on cuts.

In 2 years I will be nothing but a blob of fat.

All this quad muscle I think is SLACK, just there, not doing anything. I try not to be a muscle builder, but all i've done is built leg muscles that do NOTHING. I should be able to lift at least 405, but nope, not even 225 imo.

(https://i.gyazo.com/4554567e29d93e11a71c0ff89f4f6a61.png)
Title: Re: I am going kamikaze in this.....
Post by: LBSS on September 14, 2017, 12:44:15 pm
https://www.bodyrecomposition.com/the-rapid-fat-loss-handbook

https://www.bodyrecomposition.com/a-guide-to-flexible-dieting
Title: Re: I am going kamikaze in this.....
Post by: fast does lie on September 14, 2017, 05:09:06 pm
https://www.bodyrecomposition.com/the-rapid-fat-loss-handbook

https://www.bodyrecomposition.com/a-guide-to-flexible-dieting

Have to pay for available info... nah.

I know how to rapid fat loss, but I'm scared of losing quad/posterior chain strength...... anything too rapid will hurt strength extremely
Title: Re: I am going kamikaze in this.....
Post by: LBSS on September 14, 2017, 11:45:43 pm
you just copped to spending $30,000 on equipment and whatever else. those two books together are excellent and cost less than $100. yes most of the info in them is available online for free but you have to search for it and put it together yourself. the whole point of lyle's books is to help people lose weight without losing strength, or to gain weight without getting overfat. so while your experience is what it is, you don't have to lose all strength while cutting quickly or slowly.

just sayin', priorities...
Title: Re: I am going kamikaze in this.....
Post by: adarqui on September 15, 2017, 08:05:56 am
you just copped to spending $30,000 on equipment and whatever else. those two books together are excellent and cost less than $100. yes most of the info in them is available online for free but you have to search for it and put it together yourself. the whole point of lyle's books is to help people lose weight without losing strength, or to gain weight without getting overfat. so while your experience is what it is, you don't have to lose all strength while cutting quickly or slowly.

just sayin', priorities...

I must say, the $30k point, is quite epic. :wowthatwasnutswtf:

Also FWIW, ya Lyle has tons of free information out there, so if FDL checks out some of those resources and likes what he sees, those books might be a good purchase. I personally don't follow Lyle much so, no real opinion on his stuff.