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Performance Area => Strength, Power, Reactivity, & Speed Discussion => Topic started by: scoobychau on August 12, 2013, 02:57:59 am
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I thought some one might benefit from this, so I copy and paste this from my journal.
130807 Q&A Session with Jack W & Joel S on facebook:
ScoobyC:
i have been training for vert for 6 yrs. Able to squat and deadlift just over 2x BW. Also completed ur program for both in season and off season. My vert did increase. However i am still missing 1~2 inch in order to get my first dunk. I am a 2 foot jumper. And recently i note that my 2 step approch 2 foot jump have the same height as my 4 steps full run approach. I figure something is wrong in my jump. I am not able to gain any height from the extra run up. Could u give me some suvgestion on how to go from here? All I need is that extra inch or 2.
i am getting old at 33 yrs old with a body fat of about 14%
Joel Smith:
Scooby, I would need to see a video of your jump, but I am guessing two things might be the case:
1 you are more of a power jumper, with a BF of 14%,
and also, you might lack the ability/skill to properly lower and convert your center of mass from horizontal to vertical over high speed. basically, there is a speed threshold where you can no longer convert horizontal speed to vertical effectively
this may mean that you utilize more of a jump stop style takeoff than a sweeping left/right or right/left takeoff. you will have to spend more time practicing off of a longer approach to improve your long approach jump. you will also want to practice jumping using intentionally more speed than you can handle, so long as you keep your technique together
Jack Woodrup:
Scooby, Nearly missed you there.
My thoughts on what you have said. One, 14% bodyfat could be dropped down to 8-9% through diet changes and maybe some sprint intervals which would definitely help. Strength doesn't seem to be a problem but from what you describe your reactive strength or technique is holding you back (and you are right, based on your picture you are damn close). Without knowing your exact program I would look at adding in some more skipping based drills such as 123 jumps etc to your workout to help you get more efficient off the run, as well as more dunk practice of course. You should definitely be getting more inches off the run up so that suggests that is where your extra inches will come.
ScoobyC:
Thanks joe and jack. I am uploading that video as i type this. thanks for both of ur suggestion. i would like to add that when i preform two foor jump. i tend to take a little hop into a jump. aften i feel like i am using gravity as a force to load my leg before take off. i feel that if i am using gravity instead of activly pulling myself down to load up my jump, it will limit my max vert. would that be a reason?
Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVBNMIYBBGs
Joel Smith:
ScoobyC, you do have more of a jump stop mechanism as I expected. This will often tend to typecast someone as a "power jumper", in order to really get up off of a longer approach, you are going to have to work on perfecting how to lower your center of gravity in a jump. Instead of waiting for the last step to lower, you will want the process ot begin 2-3 steps out... sometimes more. This is the case with Olympic long jumpers. they will lower the most drastically in the last step, but the process begins with a few strides to go.
Scooby Conclusion:
Same as dropping a rubber ball from a height, with only gravity helping, the ball can not get high. If the ball can be thrown hard downward with additional force, the ball will shoot much higher.
Now, due to my jump stopping before the jump approach, the only additional power is from Gravity itself, the more free I am able to drop myself into a jump, the higher I get, but there is only so much gravity avaliable. So, here is what Joel suggested.
(http://www.hk-kicks.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=55267&stc=1&d=1376030659)
PS. After initial test of this approach, I try to keep my chest upand slowly lower myself into the jump.... so I thought I did that, but after video review, I notice I am still leaning forward, right when I decide to RUN toward the rim during my first step.... testing will continue.
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We're you 14% body fat in that video? Because it didn't look like it.. Nice jump!!
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1 or 2 inches? Come on man, it's an inches game. Nice work. Have you tried doing any banded kb/plate swings and then jumping? The one time i tried, it gave me a coupla inches immediately.
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We're you 14% body fat in that video? Because it didn't look like it.. Nice jump!!
i would agree with this. the vid is low-res but you look closer to 11-12% to me. what lyle mcdonald would call an "athletic" bf %.
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Idk about that, by most calculators I'm around 12% and my abs are decently visible without flexing. I don't see any definition in scoobs midsection. Just my opinion of course but I think he definitely has a few inches to gain dropping BF%.
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QOTD: DOES SCOOB HAVE VISIBLE ABS OR DOES HE NOT?
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Lol! Pic pic pic!!!
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here come the Abs photo...
i have access to both the Hand Grip BF machine and the Weight Scale type BF machine....
I guess I will try to test with both tonight and see the average.
(http://www.hk-kicks.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=55456&stc=1&d=1376373804)
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Looks like 10-11% bodyfat to me.
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Ehhh. Idk, but we'll see what Scoob says later. My money is still on ~14%.
I maintain this because if I'm wrong and hes already 10% then it'll be harder for me to go down further BF% wise. lol
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Looks like 10-11% bodyfat to me.
no way, I agree with chris
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yep, i'd go 12-14%.
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So has it turned into a cutting game for Scoob now... To get those last couple of inches
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So has it turned into a cutting game for Scoob now... To get those last couple of inches
nope. wrist on the rim on a max jump without the ball is not going to cut it specially with those tiny hands. its going to look like rip's dunk attempts but a few inches lower.
:trollface:
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So has it turned into a cutting game for Scoob now... To get those last couple of inches
nope. wrist on the rim on a max jump without the ball is not going to cut it specially with those tiny hands. its going to look like rip's dunk attempts but a few inches lower.
:trollface:
Agree with u Kingf, i do have tiny hands not able to palm a ball,
so how many inches additional, do u think i should be aiming at?
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So has it turned into a cutting game for Scoob now... To get those last couple of inches
nope. wrist on the rim on a max jump without the ball is not going to cut it specially with those tiny hands. its going to look like rip's dunk attempts but a few inches lower.
:trollface:
Agree with u Kingf, i do have tiny hands not able to palm a ball,
so how many inches additional, do u think i should be aiming at?
your single hand reach at 89" is ~ my double hand reach of 90". here is a clean dunk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGSq-YOYOmw
128-89 = 39" Jump without ball = 40"+ with ball
i'm at 445/170lb BW peak at this time, usually in the mid 170s with a routine 425-440lb paused squat.
the vertical jump becomes exponentially harder to improve after you get to the mid 30s"..
sorry buddy, your max 370lb is not going to cut it. you got a lot more steaks and eggs to eat.
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your single hand reach at 89" is ~ my double hand reach of 90". here is a clean dunk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGSq-YOYOmw
128-89 = 39" Jump without ball = 40"+ with ball
i'm at 445/170lb BW peak at this time, usually in the mid 170s with a routine 425-440lb paused squat.
the vertical jump becomes exponentially harder to improve after you get to the mid 30s"..
sorry buddy, your max 370lb is not going to cut it. you got a lot more steaks and eggs to eat.
I am hearing you, did a 367lbs squat easily yesterday, and go right to a 399 where I failed.
U mentioned 440lbs PausedSquat, that is quite extreme man.
Able to do 440Paused probably mean u can squat 500lb with out pause? and RAW?
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It doesn't work that way. Usually, being able to do paused squats well doesn't mean you're going to use a much higher weight doing squats without a pause.
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I am hearing you, did a 367lbs squat easily yesterday, and go right to a 399 where I failed.
U mentioned 440lbs PausedSquat, that is quite extreme man.
Able to do 440Paused probably mean u can squat 500lb with out pause? and RAW?
i use the paused squat to build strength while using the least amount of weight that will still get the job done.
no need to bounce with near max weight on the squat to strengthen the connective tissues. i have jump squats and plyos for that.
build max strength with the least amount of resistance that gets the job done. wraps, belts, suits doesn't fit that.
It doesn't work that way. Usually, being able to do paused squats well doesn't mean you're going to use a much higher weight doing squats without a pause.
i get at least +20-30lbs if i don't kill the momentum.
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i get at least +20-30lbs if i don't kill the momentum.
When is the last time you tried it?
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i just went to to do a weight N body fat check (GRIP checker)
179lb 13.6% body fat for upperbody
not bad not bad!!! but cant compare to KingF at all
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i just went to to do a weight N body fat check (GRIP checker)
179lb 13.6% body fat for upperbody
not bad not bad!!! but cant compare to KingF at all
Meaningless. Those things are notoriously unreliable, they have an error of ±10%. You couldn't have picked a worse method of testing bodyfat. Go get a dunk test or a DEXA scan. If you can't do those, get waist measurement and 7 site caliper readings. Actually none of these methods will help you much because they won't be the true value either. They're all approximations. The solution will be the same regardless of the results. Lose 5 pounds. Post another pic. Lean enough to be clearly 10%? If yes, stop. If no, repeat the whole process again: lose another 5 pounds, post a pic.
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Talk about not accurate. Did the Weight scale test today.
The upper Grip test show 13.8%
and the the Weight scale test show 17.6%
average.... 15.7% + or - 10% is still on the high side..
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Talk about not accurate. Did the Weight scale test today.
The upper Grip test show 13.8%
and the the Weight scale test show 17.6%
average.... 15.7% + or - 10% is still on the high side..
Still flat-out ignoring advice I see. You can measure your body fat in 100 different ways and the answer will be the same: you have fat to lose!
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Talk about not accurate. Did the Weight scale test today.
The upper Grip test show 13.8%
and the the Weight scale test show 17.6%
average.... 15.7% + or - 10% is still on the high side..
Still flat-out ignoring advice I see. You can measure your body fat in 100 different ways and the answer will be the same: you have fat to lose!
"is still on the high side"
He admits right there that he has fat to lose.
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Talk about not accurate. Did the Weight scale test today.
The upper Grip test show 13.8%
and the the Weight scale test show 17.6%
average.... 15.7% + or - 10% is still on the high side..
Still flat-out ignoring advice I see. You can measure your body fat in 100 different ways and the answer will be the same: you have fat to lose!
"is still on the high side"
He admits right there that he has fat to lose.
Yes but he is basing that on the average of two methods of measuring bf% which, as already stated, are unreliable and can give completely different results. If the weight scale had come back with 7.6% instead of 17.6% he'd probably be saying something different. Entropy already told him what he should do and he shouldn't worry about trying to find the exact number. Just go start counting those calories scooby!
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Regarding to drinking milk Powder drink and diarrhea. It just happened to me yesterday again!
Ate a full breakfast with 2 egg, one small steak, some noddles with a ham at 10-11am
Skipping lunch to play basketball and practice jump.
Prior to gym at 6pm, I pour myself 20 scope of skim milk powder and drank it before gym.
End up having bad diarrhea and lot of gas.
so I Google lactose intolerance and found out that, may be i never have this problem before at younger age, it can be developed at older age...
may be i can eat chess and ice cream no problem but my stomach might not be able to handle sudden load up of lactose.....
now i am thinking.
instead of drinking FULL load cup of concentrated milk piror to gym, may be i should dilute it and drink small portion per hours.
(i need the protein, and in my office, skim milk powder is the closest thing available. There were also Coffie Powder, Milo ovaltine and horlicks... which is probably not as good as skim milk ...)
| Horlicks | Milo | Ovaltin |
| Energy: 90 calories | Energy: 60 calories | Energy: 40 calories |
| Protein: 3 g | Protein: 2 g | Protein: 0 g |
| Carbs: 18 g | Carbs: 9 g | Carbs: 10 g |
| Fat: 1 g | Fat: 1 g | Fat: 0 g |