Author Topic: Squat Narrow vs Wide stance and Vertical/speed  (Read 1536 times)

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fast does lie

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Squat Narrow vs Wide stance and Vertical/speed
« on: September 26, 2017, 04:37:20 am »
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So I realized that the reason I can barely squat 365 now compared to 2 months ago I hit 375 - 380 lb, is because I made a conscious effort to go narrow stance; within shoulder width.

And it might be the reason why my knees are aching.

So how will wide stance affect vertical and speed?

I think narrow stance hits the quads more and we all know the quads are the king of speed and vertical jump followed by posterior chain.

Now i must go to a wider stance like at least shoulder width so my knees won't ache all the time.
33yrs | 24in SVJ | >45% BF | 227LB | 5'9 | 7'5 reach | 400lb max squat paused | 5'8 wingspan | 26in RVJ

Coming back from 2 years of inactivity!

Goal: Maintain 385-405lb squat while cutting down to 165 LB

LBSS

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Re: Squat Narrow vs Wide stance and Vertical/speed
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2017, 04:56:58 am »
+3
squatting is GPP for jumping and running. use the stance that is most comfortable. there's nothing inherently superior about a narrower stance. having aching knees will have a much greater impact on your speed and jumping ability than small changes in recruitment caused by your feet being closer together or farther apart.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

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maxent

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Re: Squat Narrow vs Wide stance and Vertical/speed
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2017, 07:27:19 am »
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It's something bodybuilders do to get their quad sweep. They're not stupid about it tho, they reduce weight down to like 80-100kg and use that. The only reason to use it for athleticism is if you listen to Raptor and are looking for an injury
Making a new strength setpoint of 75/100/150 on OHP/BP/BS.

fast does lie

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Re: Squat Narrow vs Wide stance and Vertical/speed
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2017, 08:26:47 am »
+1
Also, why is it that, as of right now, my knees feel more achy on back squats than front squats? Shouldn't it be the other way around?
33yrs | 24in SVJ | >45% BF | 227LB | 5'9 | 7'5 reach | 400lb max squat paused | 5'8 wingspan | 26in RVJ

Coming back from 2 years of inactivity!

Goal: Maintain 385-405lb squat while cutting down to 165 LB

Joe

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Re: Squat Narrow vs Wide stance and Vertical/speed
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2017, 08:57:49 am »
+1
Also, why is it that, as of right now, my knees feel more achy on back squats than front squats? Shouldn't it be the other way around?

Probably just because there's more force on your knees doing back squats because the weight is heavier. For most people upper back is more of a limit than leg strength on fronts
"i threaten to kill myself whenever my parnets tell me to get a job" - bjpenn

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Re: Squat Narrow vs Wide stance and Vertical/speed
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2017, 03:36:56 pm »
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Also, why is it that, as of right now, my knees feel more achy on back squats than front squats? Shouldn't it be the other way around?

Probably just because there's more force on your knees doing back squats because the weight is heavier. For most people upper back is more of a limit than leg strength on fronts

Sorry, you lost me on this phrase. Also I thought front squats put more force on the quads/knees.
33yrs | 24in SVJ | >45% BF | 227LB | 5'9 | 7'5 reach | 400lb max squat paused | 5'8 wingspan | 26in RVJ

Coming back from 2 years of inactivity!

Goal: Maintain 385-405lb squat while cutting down to 165 LB

Joe

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Re: Squat Narrow vs Wide stance and Vertical/speed
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2017, 03:46:42 pm »
+1
Also, why is it that, as of right now, my knees feel more achy on back squats than front squats? Shouldn't it be the other way around?

Probably just because there's more force on your knees doing back squats because the weight is heavier. For most people upper back is more of a limit than leg strength on fronts

Sorry, you lost me on this phrase. Also I thought front squats put more force on the quads/knees.

Relative to the amount of load involved, yeah, but front squats are done lighter. Front squats a a little less p-chain and a little more squads because you're more upright/knees forward than with back squats. However, because the loads are lower for front squats (because back strength is a big limiter) you could easily end up with less total knee forces.
"i threaten to kill myself whenever my parnets tell me to get a job" - bjpenn

fast does lie

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Re: Squat Narrow vs Wide stance and Vertical/speed
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2017, 06:59:48 pm »
+1
Also, why is it that, as of right now, my knees feel more achy on back squats than front squats? Shouldn't it be the other way around?

Probably just because there's more force on your knees doing back squats because the weight is heavier. For most people upper back is more of a limit than leg strength on fronts

Sorry, you lost me on this phrase. Also I thought front squats put more force on the quads/knees.

Relative to the amount of load involved, yeah, but front squats are done lighter. Front squats a a little less p-chain and a little more squads because you're more upright/knees forward than with back squats. However, because the loads are lower for front squats (because back strength is a big limiter) you could easily end up with less total knee forces.

The weird thing is that just bar (45lb) back squat caused  knee cap ache, but 185lb FS didn't cause that achy sensation.

I've pinpointed the origin of the knee pain though, it was because I switched to a much narrow stance.
33yrs | 24in SVJ | >45% BF | 227LB | 5'9 | 7'5 reach | 400lb max squat paused | 5'8 wingspan | 26in RVJ

Coming back from 2 years of inactivity!

Goal: Maintain 385-405lb squat while cutting down to 165 LB

adarqui

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Re: Squat Narrow vs Wide stance and Vertical/speed
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2017, 09:46:40 pm »
0
Also, why is it that, as of right now, my knees feel more achy on back squats than front squats? Shouldn't it be the other way around?

Probably just because there's more force on your knees doing back squats because the weight is heavier. For most people upper back is more of a limit than leg strength on fronts

Sorry, you lost me on this phrase. Also I thought front squats put more force on the quads/knees.

Relative to the amount of load involved, yeah, but front squats are done lighter. Front squats a a little less p-chain and a little more squads because you're more upright/knees forward than with back squats. However, because the loads are lower for front squats (because back strength is a big limiter) you could easily end up with less total knee forces.

The weird thing is that just bar (45lb) back squat caused  knee cap ache, but 185lb FS didn't cause that achy sensation.

I've pinpointed the origin of the knee pain though, it was because I switched to a much narrow stance.

that's the mistake we all make - switching up something (even things like shoes, socks etc) and maintaining intensity. such a recipe for disaster, but so damn hard to be patient. I don't recall you having a break in period so, apologies if I missed that.

but ya, don't push through pain in the weight room if your goals are on the court etc. The only people who should be pushing through pain in the weight room are strongmen, powerlifters, and olympic weightlifters. :ninja:

fast does lie

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Re: Squat Narrow vs Wide stance and Vertical/speed
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2017, 12:27:43 am »
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Yep, switched to wider stance squat today, and knee felt pretty good. I definitely went too far by doing narrow stance and pausing at bottom at heavy weight.

Did some SVJs though, and according to Kelly Baggets calculator I should have a 29 in SVJ, but I'm way below that at like 22 in lol
33yrs | 24in SVJ | >45% BF | 227LB | 5'9 | 7'5 reach | 400lb max squat paused | 5'8 wingspan | 26in RVJ

Coming back from 2 years of inactivity!

Goal: Maintain 385-405lb squat while cutting down to 165 LB

fast does lie

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Re: Squat Narrow vs Wide stance and Vertical/speed
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2017, 11:50:15 am »
+1
So it seems like if I do SVJ starting from the bottom ATG pause then jump up, I jump just as high or even HIGHER than the normal SVJ of going down then up.

WTF does that mean?
33yrs | 24in SVJ | >45% BF | 227LB | 5'9 | 7'5 reach | 400lb max squat paused | 5'8 wingspan | 26in RVJ

Coming back from 2 years of inactivity!

Goal: Maintain 385-405lb squat while cutting down to 165 LB

adarqui

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Re: Squat Narrow vs Wide stance and Vertical/speed
« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2017, 10:44:37 am »
+1
So it seems like if I do SVJ starting from the bottom ATG pause then jump up, I jump just as high or even HIGHER than the normal SVJ of going down then up.

WTF does that mean?

could mean a few things:
1. You're engaging the primary muscle groups (especially your glutes) for jumping better when you use the static squat jump form.
2. You're not engaging your glutes with a normal SVJ
3. You're rate of force development is "slow", so a static squat jump allows you to produce more force over a longer time span, including the tension built up from getting into position.
4. Your SVJ and static squat jump form are very different.
6. Your ability to generate tension during the eccentric (negative) phase of the SVJ is lacking.
7. You're not driving yourself down explosively during the negative phase of the SVJ.
8. You're simply more strength dominant right now (and in general), relying primarily on force created by muscle, with not much contribution from elastic/reactive components.
9. does it seem like that, or do you actually jump higher from a static hold than with a countermovement? perception is not always reality. have you measured?


so, nothing wrong with a higher static squat jump than SVJ, if SVJ is your goal. For basketball however, you'd want your SVJ to improve closer to your squat jump, especially at less depth - since you rarely hit depth during a game of basketball. Having a high squat jump usually also indicates your RVJ will use a similar form.. again, good if goal is jumping/dunking, worse (but not as worse as slow SVJ) if you also have goals of using that vert in games etc.

peace!

LBSS

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Re: Squat Narrow vs Wide stance and Vertical/speed
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2017, 03:37:33 am »
+2
does it seem like that, or do you actually jump higher from a static hold than with a countermovement? perception is not always reality. have you measured?
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

handstand + backflip + flag

adarqui

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Re: Squat Narrow vs Wide stance and Vertical/speed
« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2017, 10:22:58 am »
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does it seem like that, or do you actually jump higher from a static hold than with a countermovement? perception is not always reality. have you measured?

added as #9 .. lmao!

that's a good one.. there's tons of stuff that'll do that, especially things like vest on then vest off jumps/sprints, sled drag sprints then normal sprints, isometrics then dynamic movements, etc.. always feel more explosive/faster afterwards, but not necessarily supported by the actual measurements.

fast does lie

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Re: Squat Narrow vs Wide stance and Vertical/speed
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2017, 11:01:35 am »
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does it seem like that, or do you actually jump higher from a static hold than with a countermovement? perception is not always reality. have you measured?

seems like that....  ;D have not actually measured
33yrs | 24in SVJ | >45% BF | 227LB | 5'9 | 7'5 reach | 400lb max squat paused | 5'8 wingspan | 26in RVJ

Coming back from 2 years of inactivity!

Goal: Maintain 385-405lb squat while cutting down to 165 LB