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Performance Area => Strength, Power, Reactivity, & Speed Discussion => Topic started by: PointerRyan on May 11, 2012, 11:28:38 am
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Hey peeps. well I see how people like frank yang, and even those strength standard charts that you can lift more in deadlifts than squat. Was wondering whats the norm .
For me, i'm squatting slightly above parallel to parallel , 92.5kg x5, and RDL about 82.5kgx9 .
I find deadlift much harder than RDL, and deadlift much harder than squats? I really feel my lower back during deadlifts, probably my pchain is weak?
cheers
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of course if you're not full squatting it may be heavier than the deadlift
my full squat was higher than my DL for about 2-3 years, but that's because I didn't deadlift. now my DL is higher after just 3 months of doing it.
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Deadlift.
Although deadlift strength might be masked by weak forarms/upperback for some people, I think it's safe to assume they'd be deadlifting more than they are squatting if they were to use straps for the deadlifts (thus being able to express their actual strength in the deadlift)
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Deadlift 335, squat 295
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Most people that do both exercises have a higher deadlift by quite a margin. The differential often gets smaller for more advanced lifters.
Some people are just shitty deadlifters. I am a pretty extreme example with >25 kg in favor of the full squat. But especially for guys like me deadlifts, or heavy pulls in general, are pretty important to develop adequate back strength. If I could change my training of the last 2 years, this is the biggest thing that I would change - focus a lot more on a strong pull.
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Parallel squat PR : 5x236.5
RDL PR : 8x253
Regular DL : unknown , havent tried for ages.
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also, @Pointer: When you half-squat 95 kg x 5 you won't even full-squat 80 kg x 5. So don't worry about your deadlift too much. Worry about your squat form instead...
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My Deadlift is heavier as i am keeping my RDL weight as same as my squat.
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My deadlift is almost 200lbs heavier than my squat. Whenever my squat increases my deadlift automatically increases.
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of course if you're not full squatting it may be heavier than the deadlift
my full squat was higher than my DL for about 2-3 years, but that's because I didn't deadlift. now my DL is higher after just 3 months of doing it.
ah well my feet are pretty narrow that's probabyl why goign below parllel is problem
Deadlift.
Although deadlift strength might be masked by weak forarms/upperback for some people, I think it's safe to assume they'd be deadlifting more than they are squatting if they were to use straps for the deadlifts (thus being able to express their actual strength in the deadlift)
I do use straps. my middle back is the weak link though. Also, many people say that as long your knees bend a little it's coutned a deadlift, and romanian deadlift is legs straight. Thats not how i see it though. A deadlift is like a 90degree knee bend right? rom at most a quarter squat knee bend?
Deadlift 335, squat 295
Parallel squat PR : 5x236.5
RDL PR : 8x253
Regular DL : unknown , havent tried for ages.
My Deadlift is heavier as i am keeping my RDL weight as same as my squat.
sweet
Most people that do both exercises have a higher deadlift by quite a margin. The differential often gets smaller for more advanced lifters.
Some people are just shitty deadlifters. I am a pretty extreme example with >25 kg in favor of the full squat. But especially for guys like me deadlifts, or heavy pulls in general, are pretty important to develop adequate back strength. If I could change my training of the last 2 years, this is the biggest thing that I would change - focus a lot more on a strong pull.
also, @Pointer: When you half-squat 95 kg x 5 you won't even full-squat 80 kg x 5. So don't worry about your deadlift too much. Worry about your squat form instead...
I see btw I have been doing shoulder width feet pointing out at most 15degree or less. doing a really narrow feet closwe to straight stance which makes it harder to go below parallel yeah?
oh yeah side note:
it's been a couple of times my middle back gave up in squats too below the other muscles. that was proabbly cause i lost focus or something. and went forward
cheers
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Parallel squat PR : 5x236.5
RDL PR : 8x253
Regular DL : unknown , havent tried for ages.
Did regular deadlifts today after 3 years.
PR back then was 4x268
Did 3x264 and 1x286 today, rather easy, no straps , not even gloves.
Long legs + short torso + long hands = shitty full squat / good DL/RDL.
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Also, many people say that as long your knees bend a little it's coutned a deadlift, and romanian deadlift is legs straight. Thats not how i see it though. A deadlift is like a 90degree knee bend right? rom at most a quarter squat knee bend?
Deadlift starts from the floor, romanian does not.
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Parallel squat PR : 5x236.5
RDL PR : 8x253
Regular DL : unknown , havent tried for ages.
Did regular deadlifts today after 3 years.
PR back then was 4x268
Did 3x264 and 1x286 today, rather easy, no straps , not even gloves.
Long legs + short torso + long hands = shitty full squat / good DL/RDL.
ah long legs really? hmm people with logn femur have trouble lifting more in squats , didnt thought deadlift too was like that.
weird though since the back angle for ppl with long femur will be more compared to ppl with short femur/long torso, whose back would be more upright. so confusing. I guess my body is proportional
Also seeing u did 253x8 for RDL and 1x286for deadlift, i assume ppl can lift more in RDL than deadlift yeah? ROM is less thats my guess.
Also, many people say that as long your knees bend a little it's coutned a deadlift, and romanian deadlift is legs straight. Thats not how i see it though. A deadlift is like a 90degree knee bend right? rom at most a quarter squat knee bend?
Deadlift starts from the floor, romanian does not.
hmm i start from the floor first rep but the rest i o down to a fe w inches below knee level.
and i read some where about how u start from a deep squat position in deadlift? gosh so many statements hard to tell what is a regular deadlift. i always thought it was frmo the floor, a deep squat position. where as a back angle closer to parallel to the ground is a romanian, as well as with little to no knee bend and weights doesnt touch the floor.
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Long legs + short torso + long hands = shitty full squat / good DL/RDL.
ah long legs really? hmm people with logn femur have trouble lifting more in squats , didnt thought deadlift too was like that.
man ur reading comprehension is killing me
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^LOL
Also im not sure what i said is correct, re arms/legs/toro lengths.
I remember Lance saying that long legs and short torso harm the squat form , create forward lean etc , making it harder in other words. But for deadlift it was just a chat in here , about mutumbo's huge deadlift.
As for RDL/DL , i was the only one that voted RDL and i am changing it too. I did 1x286 after not regular DLing for 3 years and with my left quad injured, while the 8x253 RDL PR was achieved after a couple of months of weekly progressive overloading.
Edit:
My explanation about hands/torso lengths:
In regular deadlifts, for a given back position , the longer hands and shorter torso you have, the higher 'squat position' your legs will be in the deadlift start, it's like turning the DL to 'half' DL ( in an analogy with squats/half squats ). It is the same ROM but the starting body setup is more advantageous to produce strength.
For RDLs, longer hands reduce the ROM since the end of the movement is standard ( below knee ) while the starting point is lower with long hands.
Nothing to back those thoughts up though, just pulling them out of my hairy ass! :D
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A regular deadlift is easier than a RDL because you also get quad power in a regular deadlift, whereas in the RDL you don't. Even though the RDL has a shorter ROM and also has a eccentric period of amortization (that should potentiate you a bit). At least that's how I feel.
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^LOL
Also im not sure what i said is correct, re arms/legs/toro lengths.
I remember Lance saying that long legs and short torso harm the squat form , create forward lean etc , making it harder in other words. But for deadlift it was just a chat in here , about mutumbo's huge deadlift.
As for RDL/DL , i was the only one that voted RDL and i am changing it too. I did 1x286 after not regular DLing for 3 years and with my left quad injured, while the 8x253 RDL PR was achieved after a couple of months of weekly progressive overloading.
Edit:
My explanation about hands/torso lengths:
In regular deadlifts, for a given back position , the longer hands and shorter torso you have, the higher 'squat position' your legs will be in the deadlift start, it's like turning the DL to 'half' DL ( in an analogy with squats/half squats ). It is the same ROM but the starting body setup is more advantageous to produce strength.
For RDLs, longer hands reduce the ROM since the end of the movement is standard ( below knee ) while the starting point is lower with long hands.
Nothing to back those thoughts up though, just pulling them out of my hairy ass! :D
yeah makes sense, but how about leg length? i'm guessing long legs dont help u in deadlifts or squats yeah?
\A regular deadlift is easier than a RDL because you also get quad power in a regular deadlift, whereas in the RDL you don't. Even though the RDL has a shorter ROM and also has a eccentric period of amortization (that should potentiate you a bit). At least that's how I feel.
gosh that weird. i have problem with deadlifts. it's easier when i push my hips up first making it more like a RDL, or i cant lift the weight.
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RDL is not about how straight you keep your legs. it's about starting at the top of the movement and only going through part of the range of motion of a full dead lift.
i haven't dead lifted in ages but i did a single while goofing around a little while ago, so:
full squat PR: 350
dead lift PR: 360
RDL: never done them
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gosh that weird. i have problem with deadlifts. it's easier when i push my hips up first making it more like a RDL, or i cant lift the weight.
This is how a technically very good deadlift looks like. I bet yours is very different. Figure it out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=44OAhh9n7l4#t=214s
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gosh that weird. i have problem with deadlifts. it's easier when i push my hips up first making it more like a RDL, or i cant lift the weight.
This is how a technically very good deadlift looks like. I bet yours is very different. Figure it out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=44OAhh9n7l4#t=214s
I cannot believe my eyes. That form was insanely good for a max attempt...
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It was? I thought that was kinda bad, probably not a max attempt either.
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It was? I thought that was kinda bad, probably not a max attempt either.
lol
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It was? I thought that was kinda bad, probably not a max attempt either.
lol
lol x2
strong girl is strong
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DL 550
Squat 424
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DL 550
Squat 424
Whoa. You were beyond those a month or 2 ago, even without the suit (I think)....what happened?
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DL 550
Squat 424
Whoa. You were beyond those a month or 2 ago, even without the suit (I think)....what happened?
Nah man. These are my raw PRs. Had 484 squat with knee wraps and belt and 605 DL in suit.
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DL 550
Squat 424
Whoa. You were beyond those a month or 2 ago, even without the suit (I think)....what happened?
Nah man. These are my raw PRs. Had 484 squat with knee wraps and belt and 605 DL in suit.
Yeah but where's your abz at bro?
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DL 550
Squat 424
Whoa. You were beyond those a month or 2 ago, even without the suit (I think)....what happened?
Nah man. These are my raw PRs. Had 484 squat with knee wraps and belt and 605 DL in suit.
Yeah but where's your abz at bro?
They're hidden :D
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DL 550
Squat 424
Wow. I'm almost identical. 545, 415.
Seems like no matter whether I focus on squat, front squat, bandsquats or deadlift.... my deadlift is about 70 pounds over parallel squat, which is 70 pounds over my squat, which is about 70 pounds over my front squat, which is about 70 pounds over my bench and powerclean. I'm literally +/- 10 pounds from 550/480/410/340/270. And I had really similar ratios even when squatting 315...
Haven't tried just benching though to see if that brings everything else up....
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DL 550
Squat 424
Wow. I'm almost identical. 545, 415.
Seems like no matter whether I focus on squat, front squat, bandsquats or deadlift.... my deadlift is about 70 pounds over parallel squat, which is 70 pounds over my squat, which is about 70 pounds over my front squat, which is about 70 pounds over my bench and powerclean. I'm literally +/- 10 pounds from 550/480/410/340/270. And I had really similar ratios even when squatting 315...
Haven't tried just benching though to see if that brings everything else up....
Probably has to do with your leverages. Nice numbers btw.