Author Topic: Standing Broad Jump  (Read 14654 times)

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LanceSTS

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Re: Standing Broad Jump
« Reply #30 on: July 26, 2010, 01:24:14 am »
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  Yea, and its dangerous as hell to try and improve the landings alot unless your in a long jump pit.  I get alot of college football guys going to arena combines where they use the broad jump instead of the vertical jump so its a priority but otherwise Im really careful about telling the non  triple and long jumpers to work on reaching for more ground and pulling through on the landing.  With the arena guys its important enough that we go to the track and get in the pit where I can work with them safely.
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LanceSTS

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Re: Standing Broad Jump
« Reply #31 on: July 26, 2010, 01:25:14 am »
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Actually on the standing broad jump test I have had several long/triple jumpers do really well, mainly due to the fact that they are so much better at landing mechanics and stay in the air longer than the football/basketball athletes.  (eg hitch kick mechanics etc.) But yea, the actual power production is not as high, they are just better at the test, just like the football guys I have who have mastered the 40yd dash techniques and beat some of the sprinters at the 40, when in reality the sprinters are usually faster (even at the 40) they just arent as good at the skills of the test yet.  After mastering the start and other 40yd specific techniques, they usually dominate the football guys.

as sim would say...beginner gains


NO

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BMully

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Re: Standing Broad Jump
« Reply #32 on: July 26, 2010, 01:32:55 am »
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Actually on the standing broad jump test I have had several long/triple jumpers do really well, mainly due to the fact that they are so much better at landing mechanics and stay in the air longer than the football/basketball athletes.  (eg hitch kick mechanics etc.) But yea, the actual power production is not as high, they are just better at the test, just like the football guys I have who have mastered the 40yd dash techniques and beat some of the sprinters at the 40, when in reality the sprinters are usually faster (even at the 40) they just arent as good at the skills of the test yet.  After mastering the start and other 40yd specific techniques, they usually dominate the football guys.

as sim would say...beginner gains


NO



damn.................why not?? i mean he always say that sprinters could squat alot but they just need to get rid of the beginner gains that separate themselves from their actual potential..same thing right?

LanceSTS

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Re: Standing Broad Jump
« Reply #33 on: July 26, 2010, 01:37:27 am »
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 No, I am talking about collegiate sprinters and football athletes who have been sprinting and lifting for several years.  The corrections in technique and form are 100 percent responsible for the differential.  Once I teach the sprinters how to run the 40, like i have previously taught the football athletes since they get tested on it frequently, they will usually beat them at the 40.   Its a test that can definitely be effected by knowledge of proper techniques.(how to run the 40)
« Last Edit: July 26, 2010, 01:45:41 am by LanceSTS »
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LanceSTS

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Re: Standing Broad Jump
« Reply #34 on: July 26, 2010, 01:39:18 am »
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 Doesnt mean you got faster, just means you got better at the test.
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LanceSTS

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Re: Standing Broad Jump
« Reply #35 on: July 26, 2010, 05:26:07 am »
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Oh, and this is a great exercise along with kipping pull ups to help the pull through on the landing so you can reach a little further with your feet. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDwSSotBp98   (sit up to stand or dynamic/pull through sit ups)


and if you dont want to try those then these are your next best option

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wa-bJezFxM     (atomic sit ups)
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Raptor

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Re: Standing Broad Jump
« Reply #36 on: July 26, 2010, 06:42:00 am »
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You bring up the knee pain from landing deep... but isn't deep squatting doing the same thing to the knees. I really can't get this "a full squat is a safe squat" stuff... I mean, the knee starts to being pulled as into a separation force when the femur gets lower than the knee...

For example, if I try to squat right now with my knee injured it's not that bad until I get lower than parallel. If the glutes would take over etc from that point on, how come my pain increases when lower than parallel? I never got this one.

LanceSTS

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Re: Standing Broad Jump
« Reply #37 on: July 26, 2010, 06:59:35 am »
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 The danger I was talking about is from athletes trying to wait too long to put the feet down, reaching out further than they are capable, and landing on "locked" knees.  There are many cases of this and Ive seen several at combines myself during broad jump tests.

     The reason your squat hurts your knees is because your using so much forward knee travel.  In a properly performed, below paralell squat, the glutes feel like they almost completely take over until about midway up.  You are essentially performing a hip thrust up to that point if you think about it.  Your squatting technique wont permit you to drop the hips low enough below your kneecaps to experience this. When you go lower it requires even more forward knee travel, hence your increased pain.  Ive already tried to explain to you that this "pretty" squat you have in your head that a 4 foot 5  Chinese olympic lifter wearing weightlifting shoes performs is not going to be the optimal squatting position for taller, longer limbed guys like us.  Long legs, short torso, you are going to have to create some forward lean to squat correctly. Its really that simple, long torso/short legs- can stay very upright, short torso/long legs- need some forward lean.  Neither is better and neither is worse.  Whats bad is when a long leg/short torso lifter like you tries to emulate a perfectly upright torso position, causing crazy forward knee travel, or a long torso/short leg lifter tries to lean forward too much causing too much low back activity.  Their torso is a longer lever than ours, they have to keep it upright. 
« Last Edit: July 26, 2010, 07:12:36 am by LanceSTS »
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LBSS

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Re: Standing Broad Jump
« Reply #38 on: July 26, 2010, 10:24:15 am »
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The danger I was talking about is from athletes trying to wait too long to put the feet down, reaching out further than they are capable, and landing on "locked" knees.  There are many cases of this and Ive seen several at combines myself during broad jump tests.

     The reason your squat hurts your knees is because your using so much forward knee travel.  In a properly performed, below paralell squat, the glutes feel like they almost completely take over until about midway up.  You are essentially performing a hip thrust up to that point if you think about it.  Your squatting technique wont permit you to drop the hips low enough below your kneecaps to experience this. When you go lower it requires even more forward knee travel, hence your increased pain.  Ive already tried to explain to you that this "pretty" squat you have in your head that a 4 foot 5  Chinese olympic lifter wearing weightlifting shoes performs is not going to be the optimal squatting position for taller, longer limbed guys like us.  Long legs, short torso, you are going to have to create some forward lean to squat correctly. Its really that simple, long torso/short legs- can stay very upright, short torso/long legs- need some forward lean.  Neither is better and neither is worse.  Whats bad is when a long leg/short torso lifter like you tries to emulate a perfectly upright torso position, causing crazy forward knee travel, or a long torso/short leg lifter tries to lean forward too much causing too much low back activity.  Their torso is a longer lever than ours, they have to keep it upright. 

Good post.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

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https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

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Raptor

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Re: Standing Broad Jump
« Reply #39 on: July 26, 2010, 01:21:51 pm »
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The danger I was talking about is from athletes trying to wait too long to put the feet down, reaching out further than they are capable, and landing on "locked" knees.  There are many cases of this and Ive seen several at combines myself during broad jump tests.

     The reason your squat hurts your knees is because your using so much forward knee travel.  In a properly performed, below paralell squat, the glutes feel like they almost completely take over until about midway up.  You are essentially performing a hip thrust up to that point if you think about it.  Your squatting technique wont permit you to drop the hips low enough below your kneecaps to experience this. When you go lower it requires even more forward knee travel, hence your increased pain.  Ive already tried to explain to you that this "pretty" squat you have in your head that a 4 foot 5  Chinese olympic lifter wearing weightlifting shoes performs is not going to be the optimal squatting position for taller, longer limbed guys like us.  Long legs, short torso, you are going to have to create some forward lean to squat correctly. Its really that simple, long torso/short legs- can stay very upright, short torso/long legs- need some forward lean.  Neither is better and neither is worse.  Whats bad is when a long leg/short torso lifter like you tries to emulate a perfectly upright torso position, causing crazy forward knee travel, or a long torso/short leg lifter tries to lean forward too much causing too much low back activity.  Their torso is a longer lever than ours, they have to keep it upright. 

Good post.

Yeah definitely, what Lance is saying makes a lot of sense so I totally agree with him. But the low bar squat is an enigma to me.

adarqui

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Re: Standing Broad Jump
« Reply #40 on: July 26, 2010, 04:18:17 pm »
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The danger I was talking about is from athletes trying to wait too long to put the feet down, reaching out further than they are capable, and landing on "locked" knees.  There are many cases of this and Ive seen several at combines myself during broad jump tests.

     The reason your squat hurts your knees is because your using so much forward knee travel.  In a properly performed, below paralell squat, the glutes feel like they almost completely take over until about midway up.  You are essentially performing a hip thrust up to that point if you think about it.  Your squatting technique wont permit you to drop the hips low enough below your kneecaps to experience this. When you go lower it requires even more forward knee travel, hence your increased pain.  Ive already tried to explain to you that this "pretty" squat you have in your head that a 4 foot 5  Chinese olympic lifter wearing weightlifting shoes performs is not going to be the optimal squatting position for taller, longer limbed guys like us.  Long legs, short torso, you are going to have to create some forward lean to squat correctly. Its really that simple, long torso/short legs- can stay very upright, short torso/long legs- need some forward lean.  Neither is better and neither is worse.  Whats bad is when a long leg/short torso lifter like you tries to emulate a perfectly upright torso position, causing crazy forward knee travel, or a long torso/short leg lifter tries to lean forward too much causing too much low back activity.  Their torso is a longer lever than ours, they have to keep it upright.

yup great post.. I wish I had more video of eddie squatting. Raptor just tries to be someone he is not, sometimes, kind of like CCJ wanting to be SquatDR. I think it is a very unhealthy mindset, and leads to all types of injuries. For example, I would have raptor just half squatting (comfortably) and working hard on unilaterals. It's the same thing I'd have eddie do, shit, he didn't even get to half squat usually, it was more somewhere between half and quarter. He got so strong though it was insane. His legs were insanely long and his torso was short, so why waste years trying to get him to squat like Zhang Guozheng, like you said.. Too many coaches adopt this mindset.

I'll give a quick analogy.. In high school, I literally was ridiculou at basketball, but I had a major beef with the varsity coach. I was more of a point guard who could create a ton. I could always get to the hoop, to dish, get fouled, or put up some buckets. But my varsity coach RAPED MY MIND by having the team run some Princeton offense: "3 passes before any shot!". So, i'd intuitively just take advantage of a gap in defense and get to the lane etc, creating a play/opportunity, then i'd get benched.................................... "IT'S 3 PASSES BEFORE ANY SHOT!"... So needless to say, my brain got completely fucked and wrecked my passion for basketball at the time. I just couldn't understand that shit.. On JV I didn't start, but I was 6th man off the bench with a few 20 point games and shit, so I mean I wasn't garbage.. The JV coach had a way different style than varsity.. I was allowed to create on JV.. So here I am thinking varsity will be great, everyone thinking i'm going to play, and instead, I end up being forced into positions that are so foreign to me that it wrecked my love for the game.. Now, some people might be saying, "well ya dude that's league level basketball, deal with it", which is totally fine, that's why I quit and played street and got into boxing etc.

That one experience changed the entire course of my life.. if you try and confine me, I adapt... if you try and "get me to squat deep when it is unnatural for me", I adapt.. I don't give a fuck who is telling me to squat deep, my body is not meant for it.. I will not waste my time doing something that doesn't take advantage of my natural leverages or abilities..... we all have unique abilities that introduce little changes into how things should actually be done, rather than just following the norm.

ok sorry for the rant, but that's kind of how I see the whole "do it like this" mindset in s&c.. sure, we need to train with good form, but that form will change based on how we are built, so small changes are necessary.. why box yourself in trying to become something you aren't? Most high jumpers half or quarter squat, they don't really give a shit about ATG :)

peace

LanceSTS

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Re: Standing Broad Jump
« Reply #41 on: July 26, 2010, 04:51:50 pm »
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  Yea good analogy man.  Sorry to hear about your coach, its a shame that kind of power/influence on a kids career in sports is put in the hands of idiots sometimes but it happens alot in high schools. 
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LBSS

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Re: Standing Broad Jump
« Reply #42 on: July 26, 2010, 05:18:06 pm »
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BUT BRO IF YOU DON"T SQUAT DEEP YOU WILL NEVER GET TRUE FUNCTIONAL FULL BODY DEVELOPMENT LIKE THE PROS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1!
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

black lives matter

adarqui

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Re: Standing Broad Jump
« Reply #43 on: July 26, 2010, 06:11:01 pm »
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BUT BRO IF YOU DON"T SQUAT DEEP YOU WILL NEVER GET TRUE FUNCTIONAL FULL BODY DEVELOPMENT LIKE THE PROS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1!

those wimps who whine about ATG can't even barbell lunge/barbell stepup anything impressive.. :D