Author Topic: Strenght not correlating with jump....  (Read 12402 times)

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Dreyth

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Re: Strenght not correlating with jump....
« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2012, 11:40:30 am »
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You are too far to the right. (edit: you are the heavy resistance trained line). Jump squats <50%, cleans, and depth jumps/pogos/broadjumps for 3 weeks. Deload for 1wk if necessary. Full ROM deep jump squats with 60-80% to maintain strength in all ROM, box squats, and continued depth jumps for another 3 weeks after a deload. You'll go up a few inches.

asstarded, do not do this.

LOL i thought nothing was wrong... til i realized he was talking about jump squats





also,




atg jump squats  :ninja:
I'm LAKERS from The Vertical Summit

Raptor

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Re: Strenght not correlating with jump....
« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2012, 01:23:04 pm »
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Barbell Avishek drops - you drop from 40 inches with a 1RM loaded barbell on your back, go full (none of this sissy "quick jumping" depth jumps - go full OR ELSE) and jump up. It really loads up the legs nicely.

MattA

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Re: Strenght not correlating with jump....
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2012, 01:42:38 pm »
-1
Barbell Avishek drops - you drop from 40 inches with a 1RM loaded barbell on your back, go full (none of this sissy "quick jumping" depth jumps - go full OR ELSE) and jump up. It really loads up the legs nicely.

Dude why the fuck do you make so many of these pointless empty posts. You're not funny and think you're smarter than most of the people on this forum. You know everything about training for jumping, have 5000 posts, yet cant dunk a regulation hoop with a normal sized ball. I'd bet 100 dollars you've never been laid in your pathetic life.

Raptor

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Re: Strenght not correlating with jump....
« Reply #18 on: March 06, 2012, 02:12:01 pm »
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Can't dunk on ten feet?

 ;)

No need to get laid, I have plenty of porn. Heck, it never says no to my double clicking.

MattA

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Re: Strenght not correlating with jump....
« Reply #19 on: March 06, 2012, 03:27:22 pm »
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So you can dunk now? Can you post the link? Props if this is true, but still, you make countless unneeded posts that make it seem like you have no life other than on internet forums

steven-miller

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Re: Strenght not correlating with jump....
« Reply #20 on: March 06, 2012, 03:55:12 pm »
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You are too far to the right. (edit: you are the heavy resistance trained line). Jump squats <50%, cleans, and depth jumps/pogos/broadjumps for 3 weeks. Deload for 1wk if necessary. Full ROM deep jump squats with 60-80% to maintain strength in all ROM, box squats, and continued depth jumps for another 3 weeks after a deload. You'll go up a few inches.

asstarded, do not do this.

One can only recommend such silliness if one has never squatted with heavy weights which means that 80% means sub 100 kg. Pathetic.

Kingfish

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Re: Strenght not correlating with jump....
« Reply #21 on: March 06, 2012, 04:57:57 pm »
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I disagree with the analysis above. A few points:
1)While indeed an individual with lower limit strength may jump higher because of exactly what is shown ( the explosive trained one is stronger at the 0.2 seconds that a VJ takes place ) , we do NOT know ruso's curve.
2)This figure it evidently ( and imo deliberately ) wrong because the heavy resistance trained person's limit strength is ~20% bigger than the untrained one's and ~10% bigger than the explosive trained. Redraw the heavy resistance trained curve so that the peak strength is 2-3 times higher than the untrained force and put the explosive trained curve somewhere in the middle. Even at 0.2seconds the heavy resistance trained force will be higher than both others.
3)I hate that myth/obsession with ballistic training. Heavy resistance training is always made look like it's all about squatting power-lifting style with 8 seconds grinders, that is not the case. The truth is that lifting heavy for low reps while maintaining jumping efficiency will never fail. I don't bash explosive work , i implement it too , but it's just a helping tool , not the solution.
4) kingfish!!!

Yes. Explosive heavy squats + jumps is the simplest and most effective training for the standing jump... that and a solid diet... u cant really mess that up. 

just remember that on the full squat.. you explode with all you got at the beginning of the concentric.. and let that momentum carry you to the lockout.. if u hand to grind.. you're using too much weight.. if you're sub 2BW.. you need to eat more cows.
5'10" | 210lbs | 39 yrs
reach - 7'8" (92") |paused full squat - 545x1| standing VJ - 40"|

absolute unit

Daily Squats Day 1 - Aug 30, 2011 and still going.

Raptor

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Re: Strenght not correlating with jump....
« Reply #22 on: March 06, 2012, 05:02:52 pm »
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you need to eat more cows.

Unless:

1) You live in India
2) You hate cow meat

ruso15

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Re: Strenght not correlating with jump....
« Reply #23 on: March 06, 2012, 08:26:46 pm »
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Yes. Explosive heavy squats + jumps is the simplest and most effective training for the standing jump... that and a solid diet... u cant really mess that up.  

just remember that on the full squat.. you explode with all you got at the beginning of the concentric.. and let that momentum carry you to the lockout.. if u hand to grind.. you're using too much weight.. if you're sub 2BW.. you need to eat more cows.


you think training with doubles or triples on the front squat would do the trick?
couse my back squat kinda sucks, i cant go on full rom
« Last Edit: March 06, 2012, 08:30:29 pm by ruso15 »

ruso15

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Re: Strenght not correlating with jump....
« Reply #24 on: March 06, 2012, 08:29:59 pm »
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also i have always trained with full front squats and i feel they go hard on my glutes as well as my quads.
dont feel much ham activity do

Dreyth

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Re: Strenght not correlating with jump....
« Reply #25 on: March 06, 2012, 09:34:57 pm »
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also i have always trained with full front squats and i feel they go hard on my glutes as well as my quads.
dont feel much ham activity do

should supplement that with some RDL's. I've neglected my hams for years and now I'm hit with tendonitis. Sucks not jumping for over a month.
I'm LAKERS from The Vertical Summit

Kingfish

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Re: Strenght not correlating with jump....
« Reply #26 on: March 06, 2012, 10:11:49 pm »
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you think training with doubles or triples on the front squat would do the trick?
couse my back squat kinda sucks, i cant go on full rom

no. front squats taxes the upperbody too much to make it an efficient leg mass builder IMO. your torso stabilizing muscles will be giving out way before you even get your legs some decent resistance.


5'10" | 210lbs | 39 yrs
reach - 7'8" (92") |paused full squat - 545x1| standing VJ - 40"|

absolute unit

Daily Squats Day 1 - Aug 30, 2011 and still going.

TKXII

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Re: Strenght not correlating with jump....
« Reply #27 on: March 06, 2012, 10:50:51 pm »
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I disagree with the analysis above. A few points:
2)This figure it evidently ( and imo deliberately ) wrong because the heavy resistance trained person's limit strength is ~20% bigger than the untrained one's and ~10% bigger than the explosive trained. Redraw the heavy resistance trained curve so that the peak strength is 2-3 times higher than the untrained force and put the explosive trained curve somewhere in the middle. Even at 0.2seconds the heavy resistance trained force will be higher than both others.
4) kingfish!!!
Can you elaborate on point two? It sounds to me like you're trying to move the heavy resistance training curve to the left. This is exactly what some jumps/ballistic training will do; they shift the heavy resistance trained athlete to an "explosive-ballistic trained" athlete, with the newfound ability to produce more force in smaller time frames.

I won't say any names here but there are so many examples of individuals who lift heavy, yet cannot produce force quickly, i.e. many strong people, who are slow and don't jump high at all, and don't see improvements despite getting stronger. All I recommended were some exercises that shift the curve to the left, which Kingfish also recommended, and pretty much everyone else who provided training advice.

About kingfish, is there any evidence that he is producing more relative power than ballistically-trained individuals in 0.2s? All the videos I've seen are standing vertical jumps, which are very impressive, but also much longer in duration than 0.2s. So I'm afraid, kingfish is not your answer to this problem. Kingfish only provides us clues about SVJ, but not other measures of power. His curve therefore will look similar to the heavy strength trained athlete's. I'd be interested in seeing Kingfish drop the daily squats, and focus on some deep jump squats suing 2-3 plates. 

About heavy deep squat jumps, it's really not that hard. And I recommend it as a transition into real ballistic training, since jumping straight into cleans and jump squats and sprints is very awkward when your RFD is far to the right and your CNS is used to slower movements. It's very good. The nay sayers don't really have any half-witted rationale for their arguments against deep jump squats. It's very good.
"Performance during stretch-shortening cycle exercise is influenced by the visco-elastic properties of the muscle-tendon units. During stretching of an activated muscle, mechanical energy is absorbed in the tendon structures (tendon and aponeurosis) and this energy can subsequently be re-utilized if shortening of the muscle immediately follows the stretching. According to Biscotti (2000), 72% of the elastic energy restitution action comes from tendons, 28% - from contractile elements of muscles.

http://www.verkhoshansky.com/Portals/0/Presentations/Shock%20Method%20Plyometrics.pdf

ruso15

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Re: Strenght not correlating with jump....
« Reply #28 on: March 06, 2012, 11:09:26 pm »
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<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTFt6TAUXPk" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTFt6TAUXPk</a>

ruso15

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Re: Strenght not correlating with jump....
« Reply #29 on: March 06, 2012, 11:13:07 pm »
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<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AbumKKN59Q" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AbumKKN59Q</a>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g25_xqnHNLg" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g25_xqnHNLg</a>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxzOvfuUNP8" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxzOvfuUNP8</a>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1O7gsFvhQk" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1O7gsFvhQk</a>

So i think that with this and some other data i will start my log
Thanks for the feedback!!!, i invite you to go retarded overanalasing my videos hehe