Adarq.org
Performance Area => Strength, Power, Reactivity, & Speed Discussion => Topic started by: thugpoet on June 05, 2009, 03:59:12 am
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I was hoping to get this on the site but I will post this on the forum to see go easy on me guys :>)
Strength training for athletes
Max S has received a major increase in popularity in the past 10 years or so and rightfully so, Max S work has given athletes all over the world a chance “fly like a bird” or run like a cheetah” or whatever other metaphor you choose to use Max S work has had a huge impact on the performance community
So what I am about to say may shock a few, Traditional Max S work (as in work above 90% of one rep max) is NOT optimal for athletes
Let me explain myself Max S work has its own neurological impulses which means that heavy lifting (90% and above) doesn’t transfer to running or jumping as well as sub maximal styles (around the 80% rep range )
Max S work has minimal effects on Hypertrophy which has been shown that after a certain period of training (that all elite athletes have long since past) is needed in order to continue seeing strength gains
Which brings me to my next point; traditional Max S work has its place, particularly in the training of beginners. The Neural adoptions will yield in strength increases but after a certain point it’s far easier to increase strength by gaining size in the correct muscle cross sectional areas
Also traditional Max S work increases the chance of burn out, when accompanied by other High Intensity work (max Velocity sprints, Max effort Jumps, playing your sport) which is yet another reason that traditional Max S strength work is not needed
You have to ask yourself why you are trying to get stronger, if you are trying to get stronger for lets set a power lifting contest then true Max S work is more up your alley (since the only neural impulses you will need come from true max S) however if you are training for any other athlete competition (basketball, football ect) training should include work with sub maximal loads
This raises yet another question how does one gains as much strength as possible if he isn’t using max loads – the answer loading with uni lateral movements
Split squats, lunges, Single leg dead lifts, and all not included have the potential to load the muscles far greater than their bi lateral counter parts.
Let’s dig a bit deeper:
Let’s take the squat for example I can squat 235 for 5 reps on a traditional squat if you factor in the BW I am lifting 85% of my body weight (140) I am squatting 354 divide that by 2 legs and you get 177 per leg
Now let’s look at the split squat. 155 x 5 reps BW factored in 248 per leg! That’s 71 pounds of pressure more than the bi lateral squat even though the weight itself was far greater.
Working with uni lateral movements allow for gains to be made in strength even though the loads are much lighter because of the per leg load. Strength comes down to load and Time under Tension. Uni lateral movements give both (split squats do give a shorter range of motion that can be fixed with iso as the end of each rep)
Uni lateral movements also include a balance factor or the stumble reflex, in which the extension of one thigh potentates the flexion of the other, and vice versa sprinting, jumping, cutting, all take advantage of the reflex.
To summarize:
Work done with and around 80% of your 1 rep max has shown size increases in muscle cross sectional area which points to…
Increases in muscle CSA also results in an increase in strength (and strength potential)
You have to ask yourself why you are trying to get stronger, if you are trying to get stronger for lets set a power lifting contest then true Max S work is ok however for athletes who need to spend more time with other things (skill work, running, jumping ) it will cause burnouts over time
Working with uni lateral movements allow for gains to be made in strength even though the loads are much lighter because of the per leg load
-tp
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hey man, it's really cool that you took the time to write something up for our site.. as of now we wouldn't publish it in articles -> <your name> -> article.. instead, we would publish it in articles -> members research -> <yourname> -> article..
if that is acceptable to you, then we need to revise your article slightly... just the normal grammar/spelling etc, and then add some citations... after we do that I can give you your own section under "members research"
we would need your section name to be under your real name, not "thug poet" though, unfortunately ;)
so, if you're cool with all of that, then read it over a few times, fix any grammar / spelling errors, and add/remove any content.. then paste it back over.. then we'll go over it / add citations.
would be nice to point out a traditional Max S program that you disagree with, and modify it to your specifications (new % 1RM, introduction of heavier unilateral work etc)..
example:
"Max Strength (Max S) has received a major increase in popularity in the past ~10 years, and rightfully so. Max S work has given athletes all over the world a chance “fly like a bird” or "run like a cheetah” or whatever other metaphor you choose to use, Max S work has had a huge impact on the performance community"
peace man
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i agree with alot you said about max strength..80% is not what i would call sub maximul..anything over 80% is max strength work imo..but i think working in the 70% to 85% for power athletes is better than 90%..
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hey man, it's really cool that you took the time to write something up for our site.. as of now we wouldn't publish it in articles -> <your name> -> article.. instead, we would publish it in articles -> members research -> <yourname> -> article..
if that is acceptable to you, then we need to revise your article slightly... just the normal grammar/spelling etc, and then add some citations... after we do that I can give you your own section under "members research"
we would need your section name to be under your real name, not "thug poet" though, unfortunately ;)
so, if you're cool with all of that, then read it over a few times, fix any grammar / spelling errors, and add/remove any content.. then paste it back over.. then we'll go over it / add citations.
would be nice to point out a traditional Max S program that you disagree with, and modify it to your specifications (new % 1RM, introduction of heavier unilateral work etc)..
example:
"Max Strength (Max S) has received a major increase in popularity in the past ~10 years, and rightfully so. Max S work has given athletes all over the world a chance “fly like a bird” or "run like a cheetah” or whatever other metaphor you choose to use, Max S work has had a huge impact on the performance community"
peace man
yea man its all good yea i'll look it over again and add make some changes i would perfer it under my real name anyway he he should I repost it here or in a PM to you?
-tp
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cool man..
repost it here..
peace
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Strength training for athletes
Max S has received a major increase in popularity in the past 10 years or so and rightfully so, Max S work has given athletes all over the world a chance “fly like a bird” or run like a cheetah” or whatever other metaphor you choose to use Max S work has had a huge impact on the performance community
So what I am about to say may shock a few, Traditional Max S work (as in work above 90% of one rep max) is NOT optimal for athletes
The problem is programs like WSB have you playing your sport, running, and you’re jumping around your lifting when in reality your lifting should take a back seat to the formers. If you are maxing out on a regular basis (ie every week) it takes a major toll on the CNS disrupting the rest of our training. Max S work does not transfer to running and jumping as much as we think.
Let me explain myself Max S work has its own neurological impulses which means that heavy lifting (90% and above) doesn’t transfer to running or jumping as well as sub maximal styles (around the 80% rep range )
Max S work has minimal effects on Hypertrophy which has been shown that after a certain period of training (that all elite athletes have long since past) is needed in order to continue seeing strength gains
Which brings me to my next point; traditional Max S work has its place, particularly in the training of beginners. The Neural adoptions will yield in strength increases but after a certain point it’s far easier to increase strength by gaining size in the correct muscle cross sectional areas
Also traditional Max S work increases the chance of burn out, when accompanied by other High Intensity work (max Velocity sprints, Max effort Jumps, playing your sport) which is yet another reason that traditional Max S strength work is not needed
You have to ask yourself why you are trying to get stronger, if you are trying to get stronger for lets set a power lifting contest then true Max S work is more up your alley (since the only neural impulses you will need come from true max S) however if you are training for any other athlete competition (basketball, football ect) training should include work with sub maximal loads
This raises yet another question how does one gains as much strength as possible if he isn’t using max loads – the answer loading with uni lateral movements
Split squats, lunges, Single leg dead lifts, and all not included have the potential to load the muscles far greater than their bi lateral counter parts.
Let’s dig a bit deeper:
Let’s take the squat for example I can squat 235 for 5 reps on a traditional squat if you factor in the BW I am lifting 85% of my body weight (140) I am squatting 354 divide that by 2 legs and you get 177 per leg
Now let’s look at the split squat. 155 x 5 reps BW factored in 248 per leg! That’s 71 pounds of pressure more than the bi lateral squat even though the weight itself was far greater.
Working with uni lateral movements allow for gains to be made in strength even though the loads are much lighter because of the per leg load. Strength comes down to load and Time under Tension. Uni lateral movements give both (split squats do give a shorter range of motion that can be fixed with iso as the end of each rep)
Uni lateral movements also include a balance factor or the stumble reflex, in which the extension of one thigh potentiates the flexion of the other, and vice versa sprinting, jumping, cutting, all take advantage of the reflex.
No article on strength training would be complete without a sample workout – so here it is two full body sessions every 2-4 days
Session 1
Dumbbell press 8 -12 reps
Vert pulling 8-12 reps
Iso HF abs 20-30 sec holds
Split squats 8-12 reps (with 5 sec holds at the bottom)
Rotational style
Session 2
Dumbbell bench press 8-12 reps
Dumbbell rows 8-12 reps
Iso HF abs 20-30 reps
Iso SL deadlifts 15-20 secs holds
Rational style
To summarize:
Work done with and around 80% of your 1 rep max has shown size increases in muscle cross sectional area which points to…
Increases in muscle CSA also results in an increase in strength (and strength potential)
You have to ask yourself why you are trying to get stronger, if you are trying to get stronger for lets set a power lifting contest then true Max S work is ok however for athletes who need to spend more time with other things (skill work, running, jumping ) it will cause burnouts over time
Working with uni lateral movements allow for gains to be made in strength even though the loads are much lighter because of the per leg load
Any questions?
-tp
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hey.. you're always on late !
im just about to sleep.. ill check it out tmw & get members section setup on site.
peace man
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hey.. you're always on late !
im just about to sleep.. ill check it out tmw & get members section setup on site.
peace man
lol yea man I am a night owl :)
ypu live in the FLA? what part
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bleh.. my head is all messsed up right now.. btw i need your real name man! hehe
high correlation between MAX S and jumping/sprinting etc............. so all u need to do is reference that.. then, reference something that uses 70-85% 1RM as being beneficial to increasing max S.. and ur gold..
then you have the fatigue factor you mentioned.. will be ez to find those studies.
my mind is all messed up.. find a 70-85% lifting study that supports increased max strength (or increased max S through hypertrophy) and everything fits together perfect..
i was supposed to do all of this today but my day got wrecked due to other factors (check my log)..
ill check on stuff tomorrow.
peace
max S and performance:
Strong correlation of maximal squat strength with sprint performance and vertical jump height in elite soccer players
The Effects of Varying Resistance-Training Loads
on Intermediate– and High–Velocity-Specific
Adaptations
How much strength is necessary?
Physical Therapy in Sport, Volume 3, Issue 2, Pages 88-96
intensities & hypertrophy/strength gain:
The Role of Resistance Exercise Intensity on Muscle Fibre Adaptations.
Review Article
Sports Medicine. 34(10):663-679, 2004.
Fry, Andrew C
Abstract:
Although many training variables contribute to the performance, cellular and molecular adaptations to resistance exercise, relative intensity (% 1 repetition maximum [%1RM]) appears to be an important factor. This review summarises and analyses data from numerous resistance exercise training studies that have monitored percentage fibre type, fibre type cross-sectional areas, percentage cross-sectional areas, and myosin heavy chain (MHC) isoform expression. In general, relative intensity appears to account for 18-35% of the variance for the hypertrophy response to resistance exercise. On the other hand, fibre type and MHC transitions were not related to the relative intensity used for training. When competitive lifters were compared, those typically utilising the heaviest loads (>=90% 1RM), that is weightlifters and powerlifters, exhibited a preferential hypertrophy of type II fibres when compared with body builders who appear to equally hypertrophy both type I and type II fibres. These data suggest that maximal hypertrophy occurs with loads from 80-95% 1RM.
Psychological States Following Resistance Exercise of Different Workloads
This experiment was designed to examine the effect of resistance exercise of different workloads on subsequent psychological states. Participants, 54 undergraduate students (34 male, 20 female), were randomly assigned to one of three groups: (a) low workload resistance exercise (50% of 1 RM), (b) high workload resistance exercise (80% of 1RM), or (c) a no exercise control. Resistance exercise consisted of three sets of five repetitions for three free-weight exercises: the bench press, overhead press, and dumbbell row. Psychological state was indicated by the Exercise-Induced Feeling States Inventory (Gauvin & Rejeski, 1993) and was assessed prior to exercise and at 10, 25, and 40 min post exercise. Data were analyzed via a 3 (group) x 4 (time) ANOVA with repeated measures on the second factor. All exercise participants experienced an increased sense of revitalization, which persisted for a greater extent in low rather than high workload participants. None of the groups reported changes over time in positive engagement or tranquility. In addition, while exercise groups did report a reduction in physical exhaustion during recovery, this improvement did not differ from no exercise controls nor did it differ between exercise groups. Thus, weight lifting appears to result in a sense of revitalization, an effect whose duration may be impacted by exercise workload.
Progression Models in Resistance Training for Healthy Adults.
SPECIAL COMMUNICATIONS
Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise. 34(2):364-380, February 2002.
This pronouncement was written for the American College of Sports Medicine by: William J. Kraemer, Ph.D., FACSM (Chairperson); Kent Adams, Ph.D.; Enzo Cafarelli, Ph.D., FACSM; Gary A. Dudley, Ph.D., FACSM; Cathryn Dooly, Ph.D., FACSM; Matthew S. Feigenbaum, Ph.D., FACSM; Steven J. Fleck, Ph.D., FACSM; Barry Franklin, Ph.D., FACSM; Andrew C. Fry, Ph.D.; Jay R. Hoffman, Ph.D., FACSM; Robert U. Newton, Ph.D.; Jeffrey Potteiger, Ph.D., FACSM; Michael H. Stone, Ph.D.; Nicholas A. Ratamess, M.S.; and Travis Triplett-McBride, Ph.D.
Abstract:
SUMMARY: American College of Sports Medicine Position Stand on Progression Models in Resistance Training for Healthy Adults. Med. Sci. Sports Exerc. Vol. 34, No. 2, 2002, pp. 364-380. In order to stimulate further adaptation toward a specific training goal(s), progression in the type of resistance training protocol used is necessary. The optimal characteristics of strength-specific programs include the use of both concentric and eccentric muscle actions and the performance of both single- and multiple-joint exercises. It is also recommended that the strength program sequence exercises to optimize the quality of the exercise intensity (large before small muscle group exercises, multiple-joint exercises before single-joint exercises, and higher intensity before lower intensity exercises). For initial resistances, it is recommended that loads corresponding to 8-12 repetition maximum (RM) be used in novice training. For intermediate to advanced training, it is recommended that individuals use a wider loading range, from 1-12 RM in a periodized fashion, with eventual emphasis on heavy loading (1-6 RM) using at least 3-min rest periods between sets performed at a moderate contraction velocity (1-2 s concentric, 1-2 s eccentric). When training at a specific RM load, it is recommended that 2-10% increase in load be applied when the individual can perform the current workload for one to two repetitions over the desired number. The recommendation for training frequency is 2-3 d[middle dot]wk-1 for novice and intermediate training and 4-5 d[middle dot]wk-1 for advanced training. Similar program designs are recommended for hypertrophy training with respect to exercise selection and frequency. For loading, it is recommended that loads corresponding to 1-12 RM be used in periodized fashion, with emphasis on the 6-12 RM zone using 1- to 2-min rest periods between sets at a moderate velocity. Higher volume, multiple-set programs are recommended for maximizing hypertrophy. Progression in power training entails two general loading strategies: 1) strength training, and 2) use of light loads (30-60% of 1 RM) performed at a fast contraction velocity with 2-3 min of rest between sets for multiple sets per exercise. It is also recommended that emphasis be placed on multiple-joint exercises, especially those involving the total body. For local muscular endurance training, it is recommended that light to moderate loads (40-60% of 1 RM) be performed for high repetitions (> 15) using short rest periods (< 90 s). In the interpretation of this position stand, as with prior ones, the recommendations should be viewed in context of the individual's target goals, physical capacity, and training status.
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Strength training for athletes
Max S has received a major increase in popularity in the past 10 years or so and rightfully so, Max S work has given athletes all over the world a chance “fly like a bird” or run like a cheetah” or whatever other metaphor you choose to use Max S work has had a huge impact on the performance community
So what I am about to say may shock a few, Traditional Max S work (as in work above 90% of one rep max) is NOT optimal for athletes
The problem is programs like WSB have you playing your sport, running, and you’re jumping around your lifting when in reality your lifting should take a back seat to the formers. If you are maxing out on a regular basis (ie every week) it takes a major toll on the CNS disrupting the rest of our training. Max S work does not transfer to running and jumping as much as we think.
Let me explain myself Max S work has its own neurological impulses which means that heavy lifting (90% and above) doesn’t transfer to running or jumping as well as sub maximal styles (around the 80% rep range )
Max S work has minimal effects on Hypertrophy which has been shown that after a certain period of training (that all elite athletes have long since past) is needed in order to continue seeing strength gains
Which brings me to my next point; traditional Max S work has its place, particularly in the training of beginners. The Neural adoptions will yield in strength increases but after a certain point it’s far easier to increase strength by gaining size in the correct muscle cross sectional areas
Also traditional Max S work increases the chance of burn out, when accompanied by other High Intensity work (max Velocity sprints, Max effort Jumps, playing your sport) which is yet another reason that traditional Max S strength work is not needed
You have to ask yourself why you are trying to get stronger, if you are trying to get stronger for lets set a power lifting contest then true Max S work is more up your alley (since the only neural impulses you will need come from true max S) however if you are training for any other athlete competition (basketball, football ect) training should include work with sub maximal loads
This raises yet another question how does one gains as much strength as possible if he isn’t using max loads – the answer loading with uni lateral movements
Split squats, lunges, Single leg dead lifts, and all not included have the potential to load the muscles far greater than their bi lateral counter parts.
Let’s dig a bit deeper:
Let’s take the squat for example I can squat 235 for 5 reps on a traditional squat if you factor in the BW I am lifting 85% of my body weight (140) I am squatting 354 divide that by 2 legs and you get 177 per leg
Now let’s look at the split squat. 155 x 5 reps BW factored in 248 per leg! That’s 71 pounds of pressure more than the bi lateral squat even though the weight itself was far greater.
Working with uni lateral movements allow for gains to be made in strength even though the loads are much lighter because of the per leg load. Strength comes down to load and Time under Tension. Uni lateral movements give both (split squats do give a shorter range of motion that can be fixed with iso as the end of each rep)
Uni lateral movements also include a balance factor or the stumble reflex, in which the extension of one thigh potentiates the flexion of the other, and vice versa sprinting, jumping, cutting, all take advantage of the reflex.
No article on strength training would be complete without a sample workout – so here it is two full body sessions every 2-4 days
Session 1
Dumbbell press 8 -12 reps
Vert pulling 8-12 reps
Iso HF abs 20-30 sec holds
Split squats 8-12 reps (with 5 sec holds at the bottom)
Rotational style
Session 2
Dumbbell bench press 8-12 reps
Dumbbell rows 8-12 reps
Iso HF abs 20-30 reps
Iso SL deadlifts 15-20 secs holds
Rational style
To summarize:
Work done with and around 80% of your 1 rep max has shown size increases in muscle cross sectional area which points to…
Increases in muscle CSA also results in an increase in strength (and strength potential)
You have to ask yourself why you are trying to get stronger, if you are trying to get stronger for lets set a power lifting contest then true Max S work is ok however for athletes who need to spend more time with other things (skill work, running, jumping ) it will cause burnouts over time
Working with uni lateral movements allow for gains to be made in strength even though the loads are much lighter because of the per leg load
Any questions?
References:
Hakkinen K, Kallinen M, Linnamo V, Pastinen UM, Newton RU, Kraemer WJ (1996) Neuromuscular adaptations during bilateral versus unilateral strength training in middle-aged and elderly men and women. Acta physiologica Scandinavica 158(1): p. 77-88
McCurdy KW, Langford GA, Doscher MW, Wiley LP, Mallard KG (2005) The effects of short-term unilateral and bilateral lower-body resistance training on measures of strength and power. Journal of strength and conditioning research 19(1): p. 9-15
Narici MV, Hoppeler H, Kayser B, Landoni L, Claassen H, Gavardi C, Conti M, Cerretelli P (1996) Human quadriceps cross-sectional area, torque and neural activation during 6 months strength training. Acta physiologica Scandinavica 157(2): p. 175-186
Vandervoort A, Sale D, Moroz J (1984) Comparison of motor unit activation during unilateral and bilateral leg extension. Journal of applied physiology: respiratory, environmental, and exercise physiology 56: p. 46-51
The Role of Resistance Exercise Intensity on Muscle Fibre Adaptations.
Sports Medicine. 34(10):663-679, 2004.
Strong correlation of maximal squat strength with sprint performance and vertical jump height in elite soccer players
- Johnny Johnson
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http://www.pure-dedication.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=70:lab-community-strength-training-for-athletes-by-johnny-johnson&catid=42:lab-community&Itemid=18
what you think
these damn urls are way too big lol..
peace
ps:
whats your email thugp0et, so i can link it in there?
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btw, i searched barbell lunge on google images for pics.. could not find any good pics.. so i used my lunge pic and rj's split squat pic..
i wanted to find a crazy rugged barbell lunge.
peace
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its all good man I never thought too add pics and what not :) lol I am a goober when it comes to adding spice to stuff lol you collage guys always out do me
my email is jr_johnson10@yahoo.com
cool looks my dude thats I am honored to be the first one in the lab :)
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its all good man I never thought too add pics and what not :) lol I am a goober when it comes to adding spice to stuff lol you collage guys always out do me
my email is jr_johnson10@yahoo.com
cool looks my dude thats I am honored to be the first one in the lab :)
ya man thanks for wanting to write something up.. its a cool idea, eventually community lab will grow nicely..
ill add the email in the article shortly..
peace man