Author Topic: Suggestions needed! Weight 188 to 168lbs completed! Time to get serious!  (Read 2662 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

scoobychau

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 780
  • Respect: +273
    • View Profile
Dear fellow vert trainers,

I would like some advice in scheduling/planing ... As i plan to do the following weekly.

- 2 x jump to rim x20 1hr (lunch or morning but prefer lunch as my cns sucks at 8am)
- 2 x olift toward 5x5 squat 45min (morning only)
- 2 x hiit 100m x10 1hr (morning or lunch, prefer morning)
- 2 x upper body circuit 45min (lunch only)

Per week.
2 time slot avaliable per day. Morning and lunch.
If u were me, how would you spread them out to avoid overtrain and be effective?

I have decided to quite my basketball team and fully focus in trying to dunk on 10'.

I mean, at 168lbs... I don know when will be the next time i am as lean as now... May be when i am 70 yrs old and weak?

I need to eat drink sleep vertical with 100 percent focus!

Ur suggestion will he greatly appreciated.

Sun - 10-11am olift to squat is here with my girl singing class
Mon -
Tue -
Wed -
Thu -
Fri -
Sat -

« Last Edit: May 26, 2016, 08:19:38 am by scoobychau »
BIY - believe in yourself
Born 1980
190 lbs
Reach 7'5" (89")
2 legs leap 28"@06, 33"@11, 34.5"@2012, 37"@2013
Ankle Surgery - Dec 14, 07
Dunk Goal - Nov 11, 2012 (Daughter's 1 yrs old Bdays)

~SACRIFICE~
IF YOU WANT SOMETHING YOU'VE NEVER HAD...
YOU MUST BE WILLING TO DO SOMETHING
YOU'VE NEVER DONE! (by Thomas Jefferson)

acole14

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1547
  • Respect: +1034
    • View Profile
First you can build a time machine and go back to last year when you had a 40'' vertical!!!! I mean....god damn. You were there!

Do you really need two dedicated UB sessions? Could just throw in some pullups, dips, heavy DB rows, bench press etc. on the squat day. If you insist on that then you could do this:

Sun - Squat 1 (morning)
Mon - HIIT 1 (morning)
Tue - UB 1 (lunch)
Wed - Jump 1 (lunch)
Thu - Squat 2 (morning)
Fri - HIIT 2 (morning)
Sat - Jump 2 followed by UB 2 anytime in the day when you fire best. This could be a ME session whereas the weekly jumps session could be <ME. This is assuming you don't have time restrictions on Saturday as you aren't at work; if you are, Jumps 2 in the morning and UB 2 at lunch.

Where are you doing the HIIT?

scoobychau

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 780
  • Respect: +273
    • View Profile
I found a parking lot 15min away from home

So i jog stretch 15 min to the parking lot. And do 10x full speed sprint.
This is the only safe way for not running into anyone.

After 10 run. Is about 30min. And need 15 min to walk back.
So an hours.

At least i am not suffering foot pain or core pain now. Crossing my finger.

The upperbosy is optional i guess. Or when it rain and i can not do any outdoor activity... Uppbody is there.

Thanks for ur fees back.
BIY - believe in yourself
Born 1980
190 lbs
Reach 7'5" (89")
2 legs leap 28"@06, 33"@11, 34.5"@2012, 37"@2013
Ankle Surgery - Dec 14, 07
Dunk Goal - Nov 11, 2012 (Daughter's 1 yrs old Bdays)

~SACRIFICE~
IF YOU WANT SOMETHING YOU'VE NEVER HAD...
YOU MUST BE WILLING TO DO SOMETHING
YOU'VE NEVER DONE! (by Thomas Jefferson)

LBSS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11247
  • plugging away...
  • Respect: +5734
    • View Profile
    • Email
acole's plan looks reasonable. but why are you doing the HIIT? if you're trying to peak vert as fast as possible, why tire yourself out any more than necessary? HIIT isn't gonna make you jump higher in the short term.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

handstand + backflip + flag

scoobychau

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 780
  • Respect: +273
    • View Profile
i do the HIIT to lose wegith.
i was doing like 30min jog every 2nd day.. and after like 30 jog or so..
it never worked. my weight remain the same.

then i do this HIIT 100M x 10.. and Bam  after 2 session i see my weight start to go down (along with eating clean)
and i just completed my 5th session this morning.

I am at 169lbs now. I am not sure if i should continue to do HIIT and may be it will get me even more lean.

but i can tell that this sprinting hiit  HIT my body in ways i never experienced.

my core, my oblique, my glute was sore in a way that I had nevere experienced in my 8 yrs of training.
(and i mean.. i had done all kind of plyo, deadlift, squat variation, olift)
but never did my Oblique and glute got so sore to a point that.. touching it is painful and have trouble sleeping at night.

HOWEVER, i got thru it and i think my body adapted to it now...
so... I wil stop HIIT.... right after my body got adapted to it... i feel it is kind of a waste... if u know what i mean.

so if u ask me.. what is HIIT for...
it is for further Fat burn, and for those added training stimulation that i did not have with my other training.. (not sure if the benefit can outweight the negative here)
BIY - believe in yourself
Born 1980
190 lbs
Reach 7'5" (89")
2 legs leap 28"@06, 33"@11, 34.5"@2012, 37"@2013
Ankle Surgery - Dec 14, 07
Dunk Goal - Nov 11, 2012 (Daughter's 1 yrs old Bdays)

~SACRIFICE~
IF YOU WANT SOMETHING YOU'VE NEVER HAD...
YOU MUST BE WILLING TO DO SOMETHING
YOU'VE NEVER DONE! (by Thomas Jefferson)

Dreyth

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2776
  • Respect: +821
    • View Profile
    • Email
Calories in vs calories out is what makes you lose weight. Not HIIT.

You can even lay in bed all day and lose weight, as long as you burn more calories than you eat (in this example your calories will be burned by just your metabolism/BMR).

For that reason, i would recommend to not do HIIT as LBSS said. You can jog, or do what i do and just walk a lot. Dont do whatever will get in the way of your strength gains too much. However, if you see some benefits in sprinting during HIIT (aside from "fat loss") then by all means still do some of it!
I'm LAKERS from The Vertical Summit

Kingfish

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1816
  • Respect: +867
    • View Profile
scoob,

if you like the HIIT style of training for weight loss and conditioning, do HIIT exercises that will improve your jump. sprinting improves sprinting.

jump ropes, loaded jump squats, even stair climbs (stadium stairs are toughest) will have better carryover to your jumping.

i personally cut weight/lean out by caloric deficit alone. adding more exercise and eating less  almost always leads to a burnout.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2016, 05:58:25 am by Kingfish »
5'10" | 202bs | 36 yrs
reach - 7'8" (92") |paused full squat - 475x1| standing VJ - 40"|

That which that does not kill us, makes us stronger.
- Friedrich Nietzsche

Daily Squats Day 1 - Aug 30, 2011 and still going.

scoobychau

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 780
  • Respect: +273
    • View Profile
thanks to all who replied.
It is actually mu first time doing HIIT in Sprinting form.

I try to do HIIT with heartrate monitor doing buerpee lunge jump indoor, and my heart rate never got that high or i guess the intensity is never as HARDCORE as a 100m sprint style.

actually.. Both Adarq and Andy Nicholson (44 yrs dunker) suggested jump rope.  Boxer style speed rope.  (i did try to jump rope 2 times, but It would take some learning / coordination work to get good at speed rope jumping)

I thought speed rope jumping is more on the Cardio side.... so i never got serious about it.  However. the Hiit Sprint... the intensity, every Single Stride require full triple extension from Glute all the way down to the ground...

i thought that is the best explosive training.... as each stride is probably more loaded compare to any jump squat or olift i had done..
at least that is how it felt to my body...
« Last Edit: May 27, 2016, 03:44:29 am by scoobychau »
BIY - believe in yourself
Born 1980
190 lbs
Reach 7'5" (89")
2 legs leap 28"@06, 33"@11, 34.5"@2012, 37"@2013
Ankle Surgery - Dec 14, 07
Dunk Goal - Nov 11, 2012 (Daughter's 1 yrs old Bdays)

~SACRIFICE~
IF YOU WANT SOMETHING YOU'VE NEVER HAD...
YOU MUST BE WILLING TO DO SOMETHING
YOU'VE NEVER DONE! (by Thomas Jefferson)

Raptor

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14464
  • Respect: +2393
    • Yahoo Instant Messenger - raptorescu
    • View Profile
    • Email
You could do kettlebell swings intervals - great for both power, hip recruitment and fat loss.

scoobychau

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 780
  • Respect: +273
    • View Profile
no access to kettle ball, But i did try to do those hip thrust swing with 30 lbs dumbell before.
like i said..b4
nothing compare to Sprinting 100% effort the force output intensity.  (i guess it take much lesser skill or brain juice for coordination sake)

but i like what Kingfish said,  may be stair climbs in stadium will have similar if not BETTER result.

U know, It took me a few weeks to find the Perfect Safe place to do my 100m Sprint... as where i live is  crowded and people will pop up around the corner leading in to a Crash. 

(take me 15 min to walk to the parking lot (with only 1 entrance) so it must be safe to sprint.  )

But I believe there is a outdoor football field with spectator stance which i can do stay climb with :)
i will go site check tonight :)

this is good progress, thanks for the suggest from everybody.
BIY - believe in yourself
Born 1980
190 lbs
Reach 7'5" (89")
2 legs leap 28"@06, 33"@11, 34.5"@2012, 37"@2013
Ankle Surgery - Dec 14, 07
Dunk Goal - Nov 11, 2012 (Daughter's 1 yrs old Bdays)

~SACRIFICE~
IF YOU WANT SOMETHING YOU'VE NEVER HAD...
YOU MUST BE WILLING TO DO SOMETHING
YOU'VE NEVER DONE! (by Thomas Jefferson)

scoobychau

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 780
  • Respect: +273
    • View Profile
Checked the distance of the so call small spectator stance of the small football field close to home.
from google map, the depth of the stance is only 27ft, 8.3m long.  Not sure about the height.
but i think is safe to says it is too short for stair running especially for explosive development?


So I asked this question to a few person.
- Andy the 44 yrs old dunker
- Olifting Coach
- and Adarq Bro

And there is how they answer: 
(7 1 2 3 4 5 6 are days)

44 old:  7lift/run 1rest 2upper 3jump 4lift/run 5rest 6jump
(Key: suggested to do Sprint after a heavy leg lift, only have 1 upper, and have 2 days rest @7sessions with 2days of 2 session)

Olifter:   7lift/jump 1run/upper 2rest 3lift/jump 4rest 5run/upper 6rest
(Key: suggest to jump after morning lift, rest day before lift for better form development, 3 rest day @8 sessions with 4days of 2 session)

acole14: 7lift 1run 2upper 3jump 4lift 5run 6jump/upper
(key: no rest day, 1 session per day except for 1 day)


Now. i am thinking.
i already started this week with
7 Lifting
1 Morning HIIT + Lunch Upper

now i am seriously thinking.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2016, 04:20:21 am by scoobychau »
BIY - believe in yourself
Born 1980
190 lbs
Reach 7'5" (89")
2 legs leap 28"@06, 33"@11, 34.5"@2012, 37"@2013
Ankle Surgery - Dec 14, 07
Dunk Goal - Nov 11, 2012 (Daughter's 1 yrs old Bdays)

~SACRIFICE~
IF YOU WANT SOMETHING YOU'VE NEVER HAD...
YOU MUST BE WILLING TO DO SOMETHING
YOU'VE NEVER DONE! (by Thomas Jefferson)

T0ddday

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1343
  • Respect: +1114
    • View Profile
    • Email
+3
Calories in vs calories out is what makes you lose weight. Not HIIT.

You can even lay in bed all day and lose weight, as long as you burn more calories than you eat (in this example your calories will be burned by just your metabolism/BMR).

For that reason, i would recommend to not do HIIT as LBSS said. You can jog, or do what i do and just walk a lot. Dont do whatever will get in the way of your strength gains too much. However, if you see some benefits in sprinting during HIIT (aside from "fat loss") then by all means still do some of it!

This has been discussed before but calories in calories out is about weight loss - NOT LEANING out.

Most people cannot lay in bed all day and get sufficiently lean.  If you double digit bodyfat - sure you don't need to do any system work to get leaner.  But the leaner you get the harder it is to continue to lean out (lose fat while preserving muscle/strength) without system work.  There is some individual variation and it's a lot harder for women than men - female sprinters have to do tempo work to get adequately lean to perform in the sprints while some men get away with much less. 

But don't fool yourself into thinking you can peak your athleticism without system work - there is a reason that bodybuilders (essentially the experts in body composition) perform cardio work.  Despite its negative affects on muscle building, despite being on tons of steroids, no bodybuilders can achieve precontest leanness without cardio - sitting in bed all day long at a caloric deficit wouldn't make an already lean bodybuilder lose any fat. 

Scooby is already lean. It's not gonna be easy for him. 

scoobychau

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 780
  • Respect: +273
    • View Profile
Thanks T0ddday.  The respectable founder of T0ddday method

my weight is up and down at the 170 mark. As I resumed upperbody, I am not sure if gaining upperbody muscle is a good thing. I was as low as 168.5lbs.. but now back to 172lbs... when I skip a meal.. or after some cardio, i can go back to 170-171.... 

the target goal of 165lbs. seems not easy, or should it say. it may not even be necessary.

but i will try my best to eat clean and workout...  back to the original question. (cross posted from my journal)

=========================================
I guess the Key question to me is..
Do i need a Rest day... (Dumb question?)

Before... when i have more time and when i am younger, i workout with longer session. 1hr+, I recall there is a time when I do not need rest day, as I work out like, Upper day Lower day upper day lower day....    later on I have plan like, 1.5 hrs Lifting day, 1.5 hrs Jumping Day rest day and repeat.  I still have rest day...

Now... I am waking up at 8am in the morning to have a short 45min-1hr session, and a 45min session at lunch.  Instead of having longer individual session with full rest day... I am stuck with shorter session spreaded out in more days.  At the same time, I am older..with slower recovery, not to mention i have worse sleep, often wake up at 4 or 5am mid night and stayed up for 30min to 1 hr....

Like today Tuesday, I woke up at 5:50am.. and I could not sleep, so i look up this post and thinking what i should do when i wake up in 2 hrs or so.
Last Sunday I did 45 min heavy olift-squat session in the morning and some added core/chest/jumping around when i was at the beach.
Yesterday Monday, I did 30min HIIT run in the morning and Upperbody Circuit at lunch.
This morning....i feel muscle soreness all around, not extreme, but is there... I was thinking.. may be i should rest it out.. or may be, i should stretch for an hour may be?   


at the end.. i decide to go do some jogging. slow jog. 30min.  I googled at 5am.. about using jog to enhance muscle soreness recovery just to make myself feel better.

I don't want to overtrain... so i just jog slow.. 3.27km in 30min with avg HR at 147bpm.  Sweat alot even though I am just bouncing fwd slowly.
I will stretch for 45min at lunch i guess (which is now).  Consider this a Active Rest day may be?

still need to finalize my schedule.  Which i should do now... during my stretch  (which is now)
BIY - believe in yourself
Born 1980
190 lbs
Reach 7'5" (89")
2 legs leap 28"@06, 33"@11, 34.5"@2012, 37"@2013
Ankle Surgery - Dec 14, 07
Dunk Goal - Nov 11, 2012 (Daughter's 1 yrs old Bdays)

~SACRIFICE~
IF YOU WANT SOMETHING YOU'VE NEVER HAD...
YOU MUST BE WILLING TO DO SOMETHING
YOU'VE NEVER DONE! (by Thomas Jefferson)

T0ddday

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1343
  • Respect: +1114
    • View Profile
    • Email
+2
Your questions are a little fragmented and all over the place so I think it's best you stick with facts and focus on your goals when you do your programming, here's the key points where your understanding is perhaps incomplete and where you should focus on your program design:

1) Weight/Fat Loss.  First of all - do you even need to achieve more weight loss or is 165-170 weight range sufficiently light to maximize your jump performance?   This is something you have to figure out - the only way to know for sure is to lose weight slowly until performance suffers - right before this point is when you are the ideal weight.  This is highly individual and involves a lot endocrinology and morphological variation.  One piece of advice to keep in mind is to not dogmatically stick to any recommendation about bw - even one given to you by Kadour Ziani.  KZ is obviously a great leaper but he is also a single leg jumper with a traditional North African body type - short torso and very long lean legs.  You have a long torso, short legs and jump off two feet.  In general your body type will be heavier at the same level of leanness.  Don't use this as an excuse to be fat but keep it in mind. 

1b). If you do decide to lose weight - realize that you have already done the easy part.  You are already lean.  There isn't much more you are gonna get from losing additional weight - but then again the last inch or two can be what makes your dunk happen.  At your leanness levels some type of system work will be paramount to weight loss.  I like your idea of using your active recovery to kill two birds with one stone and speed up weight loss while recovering.  Slow steady state cardio isn't bad but I would mix in some more tempo work as well.  Just remember that if you are using running to recovery to stay off flat hard surfaces if possible.  Try to find a soft surface or at least a hill to keep shock down. 

2) Upper body.  Here is my only strong recommendation for you.  Drop the upper body day.  In fact drop the the "lower body day".  I don't know what your training split it as far as weight training but in general you need to drop the body part split.  This isn't to say you are precluded from upper body lifts or training completely.  IMO aside from core work you don't need to do much upper body training for vertical jump performance BUT if your coaches suggest pull-ups or push press or some upper body movements you can include them in your training but they don't need their own day.  You can do 3 lower body movements and one core and upper body movement when you train - you certainly don't need an upper body day.

3) Jump.  Finally, you need to always remember that you are a jumping athlete now.  Understand that the bulk of your energy needs to be put toward jumps.  Jumps w various steps, surfaces, weighted, unweighted, resisted, etc.  Also to dunk you must start practicing spending a great deal of time w a basketball!

Dreyth

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2776
  • Respect: +821
    • View Profile
    • Email
+1
I wasn't suggesting he lay in bed all day...not at all... i recommended jogging over HIIT, though, since HIIT may get in the way of his short term goals.

I also said walking a lot may be fine too. Eating 2.5k burning 3k may lean you out better than eating 1.5k burning 2k.
I'm LAKERS from The Vertical Summit