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Performance Area => Strength, Power, Reactivity, & Speed Discussion => Topic started by: $ick3nin.v3nd3tta on April 23, 2011, 07:18:37 pm

Title: The Vertical Jump Formula By Chad Wesley Smith
Post by: $ick3nin.v3nd3tta on April 23, 2011, 07:18:37 pm
The Vertical Jump Formula.
By Chad Wesley Smith

Original Link: http://www.jtsstrength.com/articles/2011/03/21/the-vertical-jump-formula/



A great vertical jump is a quality that is coveted by many athletes, particularly basketball, volleyball and football players. This demand for big vertical jumps has caused many trainers to resort to gimmicks in search of a quick fix for a lagging vertical. This haze created by plyometric platform shoes, increase-your-vert-by-a-foot-in-a-month online programs and other gimmicks, has clouded people’s view of what is necessary to jump higher.

A vertical jump is a simple expression of several basic principles of physics, most notably Newton’s 2nd (Force=Mass x Acceleration) and 3rd (For Every Action There is an Equal and Opposite Reaction) Laws of Motion. To simplify that, the harder and faster you push your feet into the ground, the greater reaction will occur and the higher you will jump.

So, now that we have a basic understanding of physics we understand that there are 3 ways to jump higher. 1) Better Technique-This takes no special skill, just practice. More efficient jumping technique will allow you to utilize your physical abilities to a greater degree. 2) Stronger Ground Contact-The stronger an athlete is relative to their bodyweight, the greater force they can potentially apply to the ground. 3) Higher Rate of Force Development-The more quickly an athlete can apply their strength the more power they are creating. Power=Work/Time, so the more rapidly a given load (Work) is moved, the more power is created. In the case of a vertical jump, the Work is the athlete’s bodyweight.
 

(http://www.jtsstrength.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/dwain-vertical-web-resize.jpg)
I have witnessed Dwain’s training first hand and can attest that his tremendous lower body power is the product of hours in the weightroom and great diet, not gimmicks.

For the purposes of this article I will not address the techniques of an efficiently executed vertical jump. I will simplify things as much as possible and divide this article into 2 sections. The first will be exercises that will help the athlete drive their feet into the ground HARDER and the second are exercises that will help the athlete drive their feet into the ground FASTER.

Before getting into the exercises that will help you have a great vertical, lets look at the anatomy of great jumpers. I have had the opportunity to train with and around many athletes with tremendous verticals, but the top two in my experience have been Dwain Chambers (World Champion 60m Sprinter from Great Britain) and Angie Pressey (Outside Hitter for the US National Volleyball Team and Sprinter/Long Jumper for the Cal-Berkeley Track Team). Dwain and Angie share many of the physical traits you will find in great jumpers, these are tremendous development in the posterior chain (Glutes, Hamstrings, Low Back), impressive musculature in the quads, low body fat percentage and ‘hi-cut’ calves. Wouldn’t it make sense that to become an elite jumper, you too should develop these areas of your body? Dwain and Angie weren’t doing any fancy or gimmicky training methods to build these great jumping physiques, they were squatting and deadlifting, performing Olympic lifts and their variations, jumping and sprinting, all within the context of a well thought out and periodized training plan.

Now let’s look at some exercises that will help you develop those areas of the body we just mentioned and drive your feet into the ground harder, the first step to achieving a higher vertical jump….

Squat and Deadlift Variations.

It doesn’t get anymore simple than this, the more you can squat and deadlift compared to your bodyweight, the higher you will jump. My 800 pound squat contributed much more to my 35” vertical at 290 pounds bodyweight, than any sort of fancy jump training I could have done. Dwain, Angie and other elite jumpers don’t have jacked quads and hamstrings by accident, nor were they just born that way, the put in work at these exercises to develop strength and power in those areas. People tend to shy away from these exercises and say that great jumpers were born like that for two reasons, 1) These exercises are hard and 2) They are too lazy and want to look for excuses why others can do what they can’t.
 
(http://www.jtsstrength.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/angie-vertical-pic1.jpg)
Angie Pressey, excels on the volleyball court despite a lack of height, because of her tremendous leaping ability. Angie added over 6” to her vertical during a 5 month period during her freshman year of college when she increased her back squat by nearly 100 pounds.


Being strong makes you jump higher, period. That is why football players, the strongest of all major sport athletes, have the highest vertical jumps, not basketball players. At the 2007 NBA Pre-Draft Camp the average standing vertical leap was 29.12” with a high of 39.50”. At the 2010 NFL Combine, the average was 34.16” for DEFENSIVE LINEMEN, with a high 38.0” (done by 4 players). These are athletes that weigh 250+ pounds jumping on average 5 inches higher than NBA players. This is happening because these athletes are stronger and can apply more power into the ground to overcome gravity.

Back squat, front squat, trap bar deadlift, straight bar deadlift, it doesn’t really matter, be strong at all of them and watch your vertical jump soar.

Posterior Chain Training.

The bulging glutes, hamstrings and spinal erectors you see on great jumpers didn’t come around by accident, they are the result of dedicated work for the posterior chain. Make sure these exercises are a staple in your program to get strong in those areas and bring up your vertical jump…

Glute Ham Raises-These are the best way to simultaneously develop all parts of the posterior chain. If you don’t have access to a GHR bench, do natural GHRs, with you knees on a pad and a partner holding your feet down. If you aren’t strong enough to properly perform GHRs, start loading up the weight on 45 degree back extensions and perform controlled negative reps on the GHR with a spotter, until you are. At Juggernaut, some of our best jumpers are doing sets of 6-10 GHRs with 45+ pounds behind their heads. For more advanced athletes, using a band for resistance is a great way to make this exercise even more beneficial in the development of the vertical. My favorite banded GHR variation is to hold a band at your chest to create an accelerated eccentric, drop the band at the bottom movement and explode back up.

Kettlebell Swings-Kettlebell swings do a great job of strengthening the entire posterior chain in a dynamic fashion. Powerful hip extension is key to a great vertical and these will teach you how to do just that. Band resisted swings are an even better option, once you have mastered the regular swing.

Unilateral/Quad Dominant Training.

Great jumpers not only have tremendous development in their posterior chain, they also possess strong and powerful quads. Single leg (Unilateral) training is one of the best ways to develop strong quadriceps and an impressive VMO.

Bulgarian Split Squats-These do a great job of building powerful quads, while also creating a dynamic stretch through the hip flexor, another important trait to have a great vertical. Do these with a weight vest, dumbbells or barbells.

Step Ups-These build strong quads, flexibility (depending on the height of the box you step onto) and joint stability. Emphasize driving down into the box through your heel and accelerating to the top of the box as fast as possible. Weight vests, dumbbells and barbells are all acceptable loading options for step ups.

Calf strength is often mistakenly thought to be a catalyst for a big vertical. Calves serve primarily as an ankle extensor, and while the ankle is an important part of triple extension, it is rather trivial when compared to the knee and hip extension driven by the quads, glutes and hamstrings. You don’t see many great jumpers with huge calves, rather they have ‘hi-cut’ calves, which is indicative of a long Achilles tendon. The longer the Achilles, the more energy it can potentially store for a jump. While you can’t alter your genetics or muscular/tendon attachment points, you can stretch your Achilles. Just let your heels hang off an elevated surface, so your heels drop below the level of your toes. Hold this for 30 seconds at a time a few times a day.

Now that we understand how to push into the ground harder, lets examine what needs to happen to push faster and complete the process of acquiring a great vertical jump…

Box Jumps.

Box jumps are a very simple way to develop and measure your rate of force development. Standing box jumps and seated box jumps both will do the trick here. It is simple, each week jump on a higher box than you did the week before and do less total jumps than the week before.  One important thing when performing box jumps, that many lose sight of, is the way you land on the box is of great importance. Be a great box jumper because you can jump high, not because you can pull your knees up to your ears. Yes, box jumps will help you develop flexible hips, but when trying to build a big vertical, you need to concern yourself with how high you can propel your center of gravity (hips), so try and land your box jumps in a parallel squat or higher.

Weighted Jumps.


Weighted jumps are the best of both worlds, they force the athlete to move with both speed and strength. You can weight jumps in many different manners, holding weights, wearing a vest, ankle weights, resisted by bands, the list goes on. You can do box jumps with weights or just squat jumps. I particularly like to jump on foam when doing weighted jumps. We do this for two reasons, the landings are easier on the joints which is particularly important with the increased load, and to force the athletes to rely on their muscles, not their tendons, to produce the force.

Reactive Jumps.

Reactive jumps rely on the exploitation of the stretch reflex to produce power. Depth jumps, hurdle hops, and bounding are all great reactive jumping variations that will build your jumping power. Always emphasize a short ground contact time when using reactive jumps. Short ground contacts are much more important than the height of the box your stepping off of or the height of the hurdles you are jumping over.  Keep in mind when using reactive jumps as a part of your program, that they are much more taxing to the body, so volume should be kept low and they shouldn’t be used for more than one cycle in a row.

Building your vertical jump is much simpler than many ‘vertical jump gurus’ would like to make you think it is. Use elite jumping athletes as a model for what you need to do to jump better, see their physique (big, strong hamstrings, glutes, low back and quads, with low body fat) and examine their training (simple barbell exercises, jumping and sprinting, free of gimmicks). If you are looking to build an awe inspiring vertical leap, be honest with yourself, put in the hard work, get stronger and faster, improve your technique and let your results speak for themselves.
Title: Re: The Vertical Jump Formula By Chad Wesley Smith
Post by: $ick3nin.v3nd3tta on April 26, 2011, 02:50:26 am
^^^

this is stealing



Stolen, copied/pasted from another source.

Cover your eyes LAMP.



Title: Re: The Vertical Jump Formula By Chad Wesley Smith
Post by: LBSS on April 26, 2011, 10:41:51 am
^^^

this is stealing



Stolen, copied/pasted from another source.

Cover your eyes LAMP.





it's not stealing, you unbelievable idiot. it's freely available at the link you provided and you gave a citation, rather than trying to pass it off as your own work. good job.

torrenting something that someone else has produced and copyrighted is stealing.
Title: Re: The Vertical Jump Formula By Chad Wesley Smith
Post by: Raptor on April 26, 2011, 01:51:45 pm
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Title: Re: The Vertical Jump Formula By Chad Wesley Smith
Post by: lamp on April 26, 2011, 03:45:13 pm
^^^

this is stealing



Stolen, copied/pasted from another source.

Cover your eyes LAMP.





it's not stealing, you unbelievable idiot. it's freely available at the link you provided and you gave a citation, rather than trying to pass it off as your own work. good job.

torrenting something that someone else has produced and copyrighted is stealing.

ha ha exactly



it's a good article too
Title: Re: The Vertical Jump Formula By Chad Wesley Smith
Post by: aiir on April 26, 2011, 10:19:51 pm
(http://i56.twitgoo.com/n14bo2.gif)
Title: Re: The Vertical Jump Formula By Chad Wesley Smith
Post by: $ick3nin.v3nd3tta on April 27, 2011, 08:18:20 am
it's not stealing, you unbelievable idiot. it's freely available at the link you provided and you gave a citation, rather than trying to pass it off as your own work. good job.

If the original author didn't want his work plastered over someone elses forum/website, it's stealing IMO.
Title: Re: The Vertical Jump Formula By Chad Wesley Smith
Post by: dirksilver on May 14, 2011, 02:39:16 pm
it's not stealing, you unbelievable idiot. it's freely available at the link you provided and you gave a citation, rather than trying to pass it off as your own work. good job.

If the original author didn't want his work plastered over someone elses forum/website, it's stealing IMO.

then why do it?...next time i'm in london i'mma come over open your frige steal all your food and leave you a nice note about how it was stealing in my opinion
Title: Re: The Vertical Jump Formula By Chad Wesley Smith
Post by: tychver on May 15, 2011, 07:07:25 pm
it's not stealing, you unbelievable idiot. it's freely available at the link you provided and you gave a citation, rather than trying to pass it off as your own work. good job.

If the original author didn't want his work plastered over someone elses forum/website, it's stealing IMO.

then why do it?...next time i'm in london i'mma come over open your frige steal all your food and leave you a nice note about how it was stealing in my opinion

Copyright infringement is nothing like theft.
Title: Re: The Vertical Jump Formula By Chad Wesley Smith
Post by: Raptor on May 16, 2011, 09:03:02 am
it's not stealing, you unbelievable idiot. it's freely available at the link you provided and you gave a citation, rather than trying to pass it off as your own work. good job.

If the original author didn't want his work plastered over someone elses forum/website, it's stealing IMO.

then why do it?...next time i'm in london i'mma come over open your frige steal all your food and leave you a nice note about how it was stealing in my opinion

Copyright infringement is nothing like theft.

So does this mean I can post Supertraining in here by Verk and Mel Siff?
Title: Re: The Vertical Jump Formula By Chad Wesley Smith
Post by: dirksilver on May 16, 2011, 09:49:46 pm
it's not stealing, you unbelievable idiot. it's freely available at the link you provided and you gave a citation, rather than trying to pass it off as your own work. good job.

If the original author didn't want his work plastered over someone elses forum/website, it's stealing IMO.

then why do it?...next time i'm in london i'mma come over open your frige steal all your food and leave you a nice note about how it was stealing in my opinion

Copyright infringement is nothing like theft.

yes it it...you don't have the right to take others intellectual property without their consent...it's theft...perhaps it's not physical property but it is still property

Title: Re: The Vertical Jump Formula By Chad Wesley Smith
Post by: dirksilver on May 16, 2011, 09:50:46 pm
it's not stealing, you unbelievable idiot. it's freely available at the link you provided and you gave a citation, rather than trying to pass it off as your own work. good job.

If the original author didn't want his work plastered over someone elses forum/website, it's stealing IMO.

then why do it?...next time i'm in london i'mma come over open your frige steal all your food and leave you a nice note about how it was stealing in my opinion

Copyright infringement is nothing like theft.

So does this mean I can post Supertraining in here by Verk and Mel Siff?

i'll take this to mean that even if you don't care if it's theft you agree with me
Title: Re: The Vertical Jump Formula By Chad Wesley Smith
Post by: Dreyth on May 17, 2011, 08:27:14 pm
Let's define theft.

Is it:

A) Something you take from someone without permission, and they no longer possess it. (tangible object)

B) Something you take from someone without permission, and they still possess it. (non-tangible, or a copy of a tangible object)

Which one?
Title: Re: The Vertical Jump Formula By Chad Wesley Smith
Post by: lamp on May 17, 2011, 10:41:15 pm
both a and b, it can be tangible or intangible
Title: Re: The Vertical Jump Formula By Chad Wesley Smith
Post by: Raptor on May 18, 2011, 02:35:55 am
What if you use then burn the copy?
Title: Re: The Vertical Jump Formula By Chad Wesley Smith
Post by: lamp on May 18, 2011, 09:12:44 am
Raptor,

off topic question:

are you naturally this stupid or did you have to work at it?
Title: Re: The Vertical Jump Formula By Chad Wesley Smith
Post by: Raptor on May 18, 2011, 03:09:16 pm
Raptor,

off topic question:

are you naturally this stupid or did you have to work at it?

Well it does come naturally but I have to admit, I read a lot of your posts to get at this level.
Title: Re: The Vertical Jump Formula By Chad Wesley Smith
Post by: lamp on May 18, 2011, 03:14:44 pm
Raptor,

off topic question:

are you naturally this stupid or did you have to work at it?

Well it does come naturally but I have to admit, I read a lot of your posts to get at this level.
  lol

do you really not understand the ethical question posed by dreyth?

 your reply,

"What if you use then burn the copy?", implies that you do not
Title: Re: The Vertical Jump Formula By Chad Wesley Smith
Post by: Raptor on May 18, 2011, 04:18:27 pm
Raptor,

off topic question:

are you naturally this stupid or did you have to work at it?

Well it does come naturally but I have to admit, I read a lot of your posts to get at this level.
  lol

do you really not understand the ethical question posed by dreyth?

 your reply,

"What if you use then burn the copy?", implies that you do not

You wouldn't worry about so called ethics that much if you lived in Somalia. Stop making such a big thing out of nothing. Knowledge must be free.
Title: Re: The Vertical Jump Formula By Chad Wesley Smith
Post by: lamp on May 18, 2011, 05:58:10 pm


Without morality and ethics we are no better than animals...it is an inherent part of our humanity--the ability to discern what is right and wrong.


Why is stealing intellectual property wrong?

That person used valuable resources: time, money etc... in order to gain and present the knowledge contained in that work

Thus it is their prerogative on what to do with said knowledge and some do give it away for free.  However, some do not and if you go against their wishes and take their work without their permission you are stealing.


Quote
. Knowledge must be free.

Why? 
Title: Re: The Vertical Jump Formula By Chad Wesley Smith
Post by: Dreyth on May 18, 2011, 07:04:44 pm
Quote
. Knowledge must be free.

Why?  

I mean I do agree that knowledge should be free, but people aren't going to search for more knowledge if they can't support themselves off of it. Some people put money and time into seeking new knowledge. If they can make money off of it (which they can) we will learn more because there'll be more motivation for it.
Title: Re: The Vertical Jump Formula By Chad Wesley Smith
Post by: lamp on May 18, 2011, 07:41:51 pm
Quote
. Knowledge must be free.

Why? 

I mean I do agree that knowledge should be free, but people aren't going to search for more knowledge if they can't support themselves off of it. Some people put money and time into seeking new knowledge. If they can make money off of it (which they can) we will learn more because there'll be more motivation for it.

you didn't answer the question...

why should knowledge be free?  very little else worth having is free so why is knowledge special?

in your post you give an opinion and then you give several reasons supporting the opposite opinion...
Title: Re: The Vertical Jump Formula By Chad Wesley Smith
Post by: $ick3nin.v3nd3tta on May 18, 2011, 08:20:41 pm
Thus it is their prerogative on what to do with said knowledge and some do give it away for free.  However, some do not and if you go against their wishes and take their work without their permission you are stealing.

It's the original producers that steal (most of the time).

There efforts are usually based off other peoples idea's & methods to begin with. They just apply there own "stamp". This leads too a waste of money that can be best spent on just surviving.

There is an element of greed. It's all about money.
 
The poor don't like the greedy.

Title: Re: The Vertical Jump Formula By Chad Wesley Smith
Post by: Dreyth on May 18, 2011, 08:54:01 pm
Quote
. Knowledge must be free.

Why? 

I mean I do agree that knowledge should be free, but people aren't going to search for more knowledge if they can't support themselves off of it. Some people put money and time into seeking new knowledge. If they can make money off of it (which they can) we will learn more because there'll be more motivation for it.

you didn't answer the question...

why should knowledge be free?  very little else worth having is free so why is knowledge special?

in your post you give an opinion and then you give several reasons supporting the opposite opinion...

So?

I wasn't firmly taking a side or trying to answer the question (it wasn't posed to me anyway). I was just throwing out thoughts.
Title: Re: The Vertical Jump Formula By Chad Wesley Smith
Post by: lamp on May 18, 2011, 10:08:37 pm
Thus it is their prerogative on what to do with said knowledge and some do give it away for free.  However, some do not and if you go against their wishes and take their work without their permission you are stealing.

It's the original producers that steal (most of the time).

There efforts are usually based off other peoples idea's & methods to begin with. They just apply there own "stamp". This leads too a waste of money that can be best spent on just surviving.

There is an element of greed. It's all about money.
 
The poor don't like the greedy.



- First off, your first statement has nothing to do with this debate: everything bought and sold today is based off of other people's ideas and methods and merely has a "stamp" to differentiate itself

- Secondly, every person is given an equal chance to say how much the so called "stamp" is worth: they can choose to buy the product or not.

- Money is a representation of value, if you buy something it means you think it is undervalued by the seller.  Clearly you think that these products are overvalued by the seller

-  By saying the money should best be spent on surviving you are making a valuation of the product: to you the product is not worth as much as food/shelter etc...

-  However, this does not validate stealing

Title: Re: The Vertical Jump Formula By Chad Wesley Smith
Post by: Raptor on May 19, 2011, 03:44:54 am
Let me ask you something else.

Let's say I was born in Kosovo, where the average monthly salary is 10$. And I want to learn whatever it is in that book. Is it moral and ethical for me to put safe 0.25$ per month to get a 100$ book in 33 years?

The same applies with software. It's being developed by rich countries where a guy can pay 400$ for a piece of software because, you know, he makes 50.000$ per year. But here where I make, what, barely 3.000$ per year - I AM MORALLY AND ETHICALLY OBLIGED to buy that? Are you fucking kidding me? Piracy is the way. Worry about ethics later.
Title: Re: The Vertical Jump Formula By Chad Wesley Smith
Post by: lamp on May 19, 2011, 09:58:03 am
Let's say I was born in the US, where the average monthly salary is 2000$. And I want to have a Maserati. Is it moral and ethical for me put 100$ per month in a bank to get a $100000 car in 33 years?

I AM MORALLY AND ETHICALLY OBLIGED to buy that? Are you fucking kidding me? Piracy is the way. Worry about ethics later



Yes you insufferable idiot.  You are morally and ethically obliged to buy it

If you want to buy nicer things...get more money


Both of my parents came from extremely poor households (1 is from US and the other from another country) and worked incredibly hard in order to get the things they want.

I have a very low paying job myself (less than 3000$ a year)--does it mean I am justified in stealing things that are out of my price range?   No.  

Obviously there is almost nothing anyone can do to stop you from stealing in this manner so carry on, but that if anything makes the actions even more disgusting
Title: Re: The Vertical Jump Formula By Chad Wesley Smith
Post by: Raptor on May 19, 2011, 11:04:49 am
Then I'll be disgusting for a guy named lamp and be happy with myself and my friends. Works to me.

In a theoretical world you would be right, but we live in a pragmatic, practical world. So... tough luck. I myself wrote a program for FREE and it still got "pirated" on the Internet in the way that they put it on several sites instead of letting it reside on mine's only.

Can I do anything about that? I think not. Whatever.

Ethics won't get you anywhere in life. :headbang: :highfive:

PS. There's still a difference between physical things that you can steal and intellectual things that you can steal. Should it be? I have no idea. But it is what it is.

PS2. I bet every piece of software/music/film in your computer is buyed and has a license.

PS3. Can you imagine how much I'd have to pay for all the porn I have? Gimme a break man!
Title: Re: The Vertical Jump Formula By Chad Wesley Smith
Post by: lamp on May 19, 2011, 02:48:29 pm


In a theoretical world you would be right, but we live in a pragmatic, practical world. So... tough luck.

fair enough, many people do not do the right thing...it's true

Quote
Ethics won't get you anywhere in life


i disagree
Title: Re: The Vertical Jump Formula By Chad Wesley Smith
Post by: adarqui on May 19, 2011, 03:10:40 pm
ok so, im taking a nice dump and i read this post:

Raptor,

off topic question:

are you naturally this stupid or did you have to work at it?

i lol'd hard




then i read this post:


Raptor,

off topic question:

are you naturally this stupid or did you have to work at it?

Well it does come naturally but I have to admit, I read a lot of your posts to get at this level.

i lol'd even harder.






that was a pretty epic, yet short exchange.. im still laughing.
Title: Re: The Vertical Jump Formula By Chad Wesley Smith
Post by: Girljordan on May 19, 2011, 03:24:07 pm
(http://i56.twitgoo.com/n14bo2.gif)
lol
Title: Re: The Vertical Jump Formula By Chad Wesley Smith
Post by: $ick3nin.v3nd3tta on May 19, 2011, 09:22:12 pm
Everything bought and sold today is based off of other people's ideas and methods and merely has a "stamp" to differentiate itself.

Then I would refer to that as both stealing (using other people's ideas and methods for which the original creator is not compensated) & greed on the producers part, particularly for people who already have a good understanding of increasing athletic performance.

It's money which can be best spent on more important items & necessities, not knowledge which is being rehashed that I have already acquired.

It all comes down to the root of all evil & greed.

It's survival of the fittest out there, a dog eat dog world.


Title: Re: The Vertical Jump Formula By Chad Wesley Smith
Post by: dirksilver on May 19, 2011, 09:27:58 pm
it's pretty easy to see who does and who doesn't have a basic understanding of economics in this thread
Title: Re: The Vertical Jump Formula By Chad Wesley Smith
Post by: $ick3nin.v3nd3tta on May 19, 2011, 09:38:16 pm
it's pretty easy to see who does and who doesn't have a basic understanding of economics in this thread

I don't think poor people give not one iota.

Title: Re: The Vertical Jump Formula By Chad Wesley Smith
Post by: dirksilver on May 20, 2011, 12:35:15 am
it's pretty easy to see who does and who doesn't have a basic understanding of economics in this thread

I don't think poor people give not one iota.




you write some of the stupidest crap ever...you're an idiot man...an idiot
Title: Re: The Vertical Jump Formula By Chad Wesley Smith
Post by: dirksilver on May 20, 2011, 12:39:23 am
it's pretty easy to see who does and who doesn't have a basic understanding of economics in this thread

I don't think poor people give not one iota.



you're the kind of idiot that makes poor peoples life worse because you have no understanding of economics or the laws of unintended consequences...people like you make life worse for EVERYONE...not just some...EVERYONE and half of it is because of stupidity plain and simple...my gosh man!
Title: Re: The Vertical Jump Formula By Chad Wesley Smith
Post by: dirksilver on May 20, 2011, 12:52:23 am
i'm not gunna change what i wrote but i'm gunna apologize for the idiot remarks...i don't think you're stupid V and it's wrong of mean to say that when i disagree with you....but i think you're misinformed majorly

you act as if people being poor is unique to capitalism when in fact there are large amounts of poor in any economic system and you act as if greed is also a bigger problem in capitalism when in fact again thats incorrect...greed abounds reguardless of economic system...greed is a human flaw not an economic flaw...until we manage to become perfect we'll find greed
Title: Re: The Vertical Jump Formula By Chad Wesley Smith
Post by: lamp on May 20, 2011, 01:01:43 am
"Run for your life from any man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter."
Title: Re: The Vertical Jump Formula By Chad Wesley Smith
Post by: lamp on May 20, 2011, 01:09:07 am
ok so, im taking a nice dump and i read this post:

Raptor,

off topic question:

are you naturally this stupid or did you have to work at it?

i lol'd hard




then i read this post:


Raptor,

off topic question:

are you naturally this stupid or did you have to work at it?

Well it does come naturally but I have to admit, I read a lot of your posts to get at this level.

i lol'd even harder.






that was a pretty epic, yet short exchange.. im still laughing.


ha ha its the old genetics vs hard work debate brought up all over again lol
 :D :D
Title: Re: The Vertical Jump Formula By Chad Wesley Smith
Post by: dirksilver on May 20, 2011, 01:29:54 am
"Run for your life from any man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter."

i like the way you think

thats ayn rand correct? i'm a much bigger fan of some of her ideas than her writing...painful is how i describe atlas shrugged...waaaay too many monologues
Title: Re: The Vertical Jump Formula By Chad Wesley Smith
Post by: Raptor on May 20, 2011, 03:57:06 am
"Run for your life from any man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter."

Money are sacred. You should love them. Can I be your friend?
Title: Re: The Vertical Jump Formula By Chad Wesley Smith
Post by: dirksilver on May 20, 2011, 09:05:07 am
"Run for your life from any man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter."

Money are sacred. You should love them. Can I be your friend?

money is a tool...but not they same kind of tool you are ;D
Title: Re: The Vertical Jump Formula By Chad Wesley Smith
Post by: lamp on May 20, 2011, 09:43:19 am
"Run for your life from any man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter."

i like the way you think

thats ayn rand correct? i'm a much bigger fan of some of her ideas than her writing...painful is how i describe atlas shrugged...waaaay too many monologues

ha ha  thanks.  Yea, it's a quote from Atlas Shrugged.  I agree though, book was way too long and repetitive

Quote
Money are sacred. You should love them. Can I be your friend?

Think of money as a representation of value...

another quote by the same person:  "So you think that money is the root of all evil. Have you ever asked what is the root of all money?"
Title: Re: The Vertical Jump Formula By Chad Wesley Smith
Post by: LBSS on May 20, 2011, 11:39:36 am
Quote from: John Rogers
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year-old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.

.
Title: Re: The Vertical Jump Formula By Chad Wesley Smith
Post by: lamp on May 20, 2011, 01:46:16 pm
Quote from: John Rogers
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year-old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.

.

Forgive me if I don't take seriously a quote by a man whose greatest achievement in life is being a writer on the movie "The Core"
Title: Re: The Vertical Jump Formula By Chad Wesley Smith
Post by: LBSS on May 20, 2011, 04:01:06 pm
lol. you a randian, lamp? i hope you get over it.
Title: Re: The Vertical Jump Formula By Chad Wesley Smith
Post by: lamp on May 20, 2011, 04:10:26 pm
Ha not really,  I do think she makes some good points however...



I just hate it when people "pander to the masses" by belittling real thought in a superficial manner
Title: Re: The Vertical Jump Formula By Chad Wesley Smith
Post by: LBSS on May 20, 2011, 04:15:42 pm
like when, i don't know, someone dismisses a witty quotation by denigrating the resume of the person who said it?
Title: Re: The Vertical Jump Formula By Chad Wesley Smith
Post by: lamp on May 20, 2011, 04:44:04 pm
The two instances are completely different,

that wasn't real thought...it was merely a witty quotation used to veil one man's dislike of the work

he makes a statement saying that a serious work of literature is "a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world"

without anything to back it up. 
And the problem with criticisms which don't have supporting evidence is that they are hard to refute...

there are many valid criticisms of Rand's work--this is not one of them.


And lastly, I provided a very valid reason for not taking John Roger's literary criticism seriously.
Title: Re: The Vertical Jump Formula By Chad Wesley Smith
Post by: dirksilver on May 21, 2011, 12:38:22 am
The two instances are completely different,

that wasn't real thought...it was merely a witty quotation used to veil one man's dislike of the work

he makes a statement saying that a serious work of literature is "a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world"

without anything to back it up. 
And the problem with criticisms which don't have supporting evidence is that they are hard to refute...

there are many valid criticisms of Rand's work--this is not one of them.


And lastly, I provided a very valid reason for not taking John Roger's literary criticism seriously.


this
Title: Re: The Vertical Jump Formula By Chad Wesley Smith
Post by: dirksilver on May 21, 2011, 12:40:14 am
oh and though i'm not, i'd rather be a Randian than a keyensian