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Performance Area => Strength, Power, Reactivity, & Speed Discussion => Topic started by: seifullaah73 on June 19, 2012, 02:02:51 pm
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When looking at the upright phase of the sprint my thinking is different to what it actually should be, but what i know, which everyone agrees with is that the sprinter should be at max velocity when starting the upright phase.
my confusion deals with the intensity.
My thinking is that when exploding out of the blocks and through the acceleration phase, the sprinter should be using 100% intensity to gather up speed but after is where i go wrong, i am thinking that the sprinter should continue to push even at upright position with max intensity trying to accerate and run as fast as i can then i am, but i found out that this is wrong.
A lot of professional sprinters say that when you reach top speed and upright you should reduce the intensity without slowing down, :huh: and this is the phase where you relax, pump arms as fast you can while sprinting at a low intensity, being relaxed.
i never did understand this ideology, stay relaxed when running, wouldn't that slow you down.
can anyone explain this to me.
thanks
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Here's some Charlie Francis stuff:
In answer to the next part of your question, since the enhancement of all training elements improves both stride frequency and stride length, there's no need to worry about training one part at the expense of the other. But, before getting into specifics, the number one secret to greater speed is relaxation! It allows a faster and more complete shutdown of antagonists, quickening alternation cycles and permitting more force to be delivered in the desired direction with less energy consumption.
Relaxation must become second nature in every drill you do and every run you take. You may feel that you aren't generating enough force while relaxed (a perception that gets a lot of sprinters into trouble in big races), but remember, only the net force counts! The net force is the amount of force delivered in the desired direction minus the force generated by the antagonist muscle at the same moment.
For example, if, by maximum effort, you generate 100 pounds of force in the desired direction while putting out 30 pounds of force with the antagonists, you're left with 70 pounds of net force. If you completely relax and put out an easy 80 pounds of force in the desired direction and no pounds with the antagonists, you are left with 14% more net power with 62% less effort (80 verses130 pound total output)!
This simplistic example shows a colossal energy savings and it understates the case since, in reality, increases in energy expenditure are exponential, not linear. The shutting down of unwanted muscular activity also cuts down on the "background noise" that interferes with the hind brain's ability to rapidly process input. This is also why it's critical to work on skills one at a time.
To summarize all of this, max intensity(from what I believe you said, but I may have misinterpreted), is using the most forces possible, but in sprinting this is not necessary. Sprinting is a result of net forces, as power is (Force x Distance)/Time. Obviously distance stays relatively constant, unless you change the length of the sprint. Doing it in less time is going to help as well I suppose. Tensing up, and possibly recruiting antagonist muscles can possibly be detrimental if you want maximum efficiency and proficiency for greater forces.
This is the article on T-Nation:
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/high_octane_training&cr=
Also, from Charlie's forum:
According to world famous sprint coach Charlie Francis, sprinting is a primitive
hindbrain reflexive activity.
Let me give you an example that coach Francis uses to describe what I see
happening with a lot of people. Have you ever ridden a scooter? Imagine taking off on a
scooter. As you accelerate you reach ahead with your foot, bend the knee of your plant
leg, dig in, and pull. However, what happens if you try to do this once you get going at a
really good clip? Once you reach a certain speed you just slow yourself down by trying to
grab and "dig in". Once you’re going at a decent clip on the scooter the only way to go
faster is by applying very short and quick strokes down and back into the pavement.
Sprinting is the same way. The faster you try to go, and the more you try to reach
and push, the worse your mechanics get.
From KB book....
http://www.charliefrancis.com/community/showthread.php?22281-Transition-Phase-%28Acc-to-MaxV%29
i am thinking that the sprinter should continue to push even at upright position with max intensity trying to accerate and run as fast as i can then i am, but i found out that this is wrong.
If you continue to push at upright position, which is typically near/at top speed, then you will slow down. Once you're at top speed, there is nothing you can do to run faster. As center of mass is moving so quickly above the ground, it becomes impossible to apply more force to the ground, because your leg won't stay under your hips long enough to apply necessary forces. Keep in mind that the only time you can apply force to the ground is when your foot is on the ground. This is why acceleration is so critical for sprinters. Acceleration has the longest ground contact times, which allow you ample time to accelerate(apply force) and over come your own inertia. At top speed, all you can do is relax, and float. Struggling at top speed will lead to more struggle.
There's some relevant stuff about this in this thread:
http://www.charliefrancis.com/community/showthread.php?21912-Front-mechanics
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Thats some excellent stuff there thanks. :headbang:
Is there a way i can over come this like some drills or do i just change my mind set, by relaxing and just pump arms as fast as i can or does relax mean do not try to hard to move my arms.
thanks
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Thats some excellent stuff there thanks. :headbang:
Is there a way i can over come this like some drills or do i just change my mind set, by relaxing and just pump arms as fast as i can or does relax mean do not try to hard to move my arms.
thanks
Yeah, no problem, I was just going over stuff from Charlie Francis, so it was quite convenient for me to find this stuff again.
Drills and mindset can change this. Mindset wise, from what I've experienced means you just don't worry about it. That is, don't think too much, just do it, and have fun going at top speed.
As for drills, you can look up speed change drills. Stuff like EFE, FEF, and fly ins will help you. EFE means "easy, fast, easy" which is what it sounds like(so is FEF). It's basically like a fly in, but you focus on relaxing as you accelerate, as well as in top speed, and then you decelerate a little and remain relaxed. I believe it's also called "float sprint float." If you look that up on elitetrack, I'm sure you'll get a good explanation of what "float sprint float" drills are.
As for arm action, here is a good video by Tom Tellez, not sure if you've seen this before:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIty_hMMopA
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Those are some great quotes, i will have to check ou tthe links later.
Of course I cannot claim to be an expert as I have not even competed yet despite training 100m for almost a couple years now consistently, but I do claim to understand exactly what it means to relax in top speed. When I reach top speed I know it, it feels distinct from anything else. It's also very difficult to:
1. keep my head down
2. speed up strides
1. My body naturally becomes upright, and keeping my head down is more difficult. 2. The reason I cannot forcibly speed up my strides as much as I can in the fist 30m is b/c i'm up in the air more and thus my legs are going through more of a cycle motion rather than a kicking forward motion which I do for the first 10. Thus, when I get there after 50ishm, I just get into the form which I know so well now, and put as much power behind each stride as I can, one stride at a time. Edit: trying to do anything else just feels less ecnomical. I've tried t keep my heels lower by kicking more, but that just seems to fight air resistance and the upward motion of my body during each stride.
I am not completely sold that being relaxed will help, because I think another term one could use is awareness. If you become aware of how your stride feels once at top speed, you may realize that trying to fight it by speeding it up or clenching your teeth together doesn't really help, and is actually detrimental if it screwed up your form. But you can be aware and not wasteful of energy.
So memorize how it feels at top speed is what I am offering. To do this you cannot test out submax drills. It has to be 100% effort, but the awareness of form will be more relaxing than clenching the teeth and flexing the neck muscles.
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Yeah, no problem, I was just going over stuff from Charlie Francis, so it was quite convenient for me to find this stuff again.
Drills and mindset can change this. Mindset wise, from what I've experienced means you just don't worry about it. That is, don't think too much, just do it, and have fun going at top speed.
As for drills, you can look up speed change drills. Stuff like EFE, FEF, and fly ins will help you. EFE means "easy, fast, easy" which is what it sounds like(so is FEF). It's basically like a fly in, but you focus on relaxing as you accelerate, as well as in top speed, and then you decelerate a little and remain relaxed. I believe it's also called "float sprint float." If you look that up on elitetrack, I'm sure you'll get a good explanation of what "float sprint float" drills are.
As for arm action, here is a good video by Tom Tellez, not sure if you've seen this before:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIty_hMMopA
So mindset is just don't think too much just do it. I tend to think about breathing hard for every arm swing, make arm drive up so knee steps over these come to my mind. I guess i just forget this and just run. make it come natural.
I remember seeing this float sprint float drill on youtube i understand what you mean. will search up on elitetrack. so accelerate and concentrate on relaxing then decelerate a little and remain relaxed. so remain relaxed in both but accelerate and then decelerate a little and then accelerate.
and the video, just made me laugh, he is very good and knows a lot about sprinting, was really helpful.
Excellent stuff man really appreciate it,
thanks
:highfive: :headbang:
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Those are some great quotes, i will have to check ou tthe links later.
Of course I cannot claim to be an expert as I have not even competed yet despite training 100m for almost a couple years now consistently, but I do claim to understand exactly what it means to relax in top speed. When I reach top speed I know it, it feels distinct from anything else. It's also very difficult to:
1. keep my head down
2. speed up strides
1. My body naturally becomes upright, and keeping my head down is more difficult. 2. The reason I cannot forcibly speed up my strides as much as I can in the fist 30m is b/c i'm up in the air more and thus my legs are going through more of a cycle motion rather than a kicking forward motion which I do for the first 10. Thus, when I get there after 50ishm, I just get into the form which I know so well now, and put as much power behind each stride as I can, one stride at a time. Edit: trying to do anything else just feels less ecnomical. I've tried t keep my heels lower by kicking more, but that just seems to fight air resistance and the upward motion of my body during each stride.
I am not completely sold that being relaxed will help, because I think another term one could use is awareness. If you become aware of how your stride feels once at top speed, you may realize that trying to fight it by speeding it up or clenching your teeth together doesn't really help, and is actually detrimental if it screwed up your form. But you can be aware and not wasteful of energy.
So memorize how it feels at top speed is what I am offering. To do this you cannot test out submax drills. It has to be 100% effort, but the awareness of form will be more relaxing than clenching the teeth and flexing the neck muscles.
Thanks, so awareness is also important, feel your leg strides, arm swinging from the shoulders. is this what you mean? i guess this is to do with relaxation, as i read that if are relaxed you will be able to feel the swing of the arm, the stride of the legs. my jaws will start "bobbing" up and down lol.
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I never understood why focusing on the arm swing was that important. In fact I don't think focusing on it will make you faster. You should ask T0dday though he prob knows. I have not seen an intelligent argument for focusing on the arm swing yet.
Yesterday I did some more max sprints again. When I reach top speed I just focus on the beat of the stride. I did not say I feel the arm swing form my shoulders, but it could help. I just go like this once I reach top speed "dut dut dut dut dut dut dut ..." each dut being a stride. It feels great to be at top speed with good sustainable form.
I don't know if this has been mentioned but one coach said a test of your relaxation would be to sprint a 100m sprint with a piece of paper in your mouth. If you wre relaxed you wouldn't have bitten into it.
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I never understood why focusing on the arm swing was that important. In fact I don't think focusing on it will make you faster. You should ask T0dday though he prob knows. I have not seen an intelligent argument for focusing on the arm swing yet.
I don't think it will make you faster, but it imo it will help you stay efficient/keep the pace. I would rather focus on arm swing if I was running at top speed, because I know the legs will do the work for me, it should come naturally. The problem is just that a lot of people cut off their arm swing, which leads to cut off stride. It's just a coaching cue to keep people from just spinning their wheels lol.
I believe Tellez's program does less weightlifting for their sprinters than other programs. It would make sense that Tellez tells his athletes to be more "powerful" with armswing, as they might not be as strong as sprinters from other programs(stride length) That's just an assumption for me :)
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I never understood why focusing on the arm swing was that important. In fact I don't think focusing on it will make you faster. You should ask T0dday though he prob knows. I have not seen an intelligent argument for focusing on the arm swing yet.
I would rather focus on arm swing if I was running at top speed, because I know the legs will do the work for me, it should come naturally.
LOL I do the exact opposite, the converse actually. I deliberately try to make sure my strides are kicking out a bit, that I'm reaching just a little, and pulling myself forward, kicking knees up and then out as foot goes out, and so far from my vids my arms are fine. But certainly some people have horrible arm swing and thinking about it could improve legs.
However, I will try focusing on arm swing too and se what happens. sometimes my arms just want a workout so i feel like focusing on them more. Have you heard of the spiraling technique? I think tyson gay does that. http://trainoutpain.blogspot.com/2011/02/david-weck-spiraling-fascia-and.html
"twisting allowed for greater energy transfer."
-that sick3nv3nd3tta guy was right
Speaking of bad arm swings and fast sprinters though...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9U9GdYWuI0
His arm swings are basically bicep curls. He's kinda hunched over and has a lot of anterior chain action going on. But that may help for shorter races.
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lol, no I've never heard of the spiraling technique. I read the link, and I think there could be come truth to it, seeing how the lats are fricken huge in general, and crosses much of the body. From a shoulder health perspective it sounds good too, because the shoulder is the most stable in internal rotation + extension, and external rotation + flexion. Maybe I'll give it a try.
I didn't bother to go back and look at vendetta's posts on the forum, but I think he's also the JC Cooper guy on elitetrack.com. I believe when he was talking about rotation, he was talking about the spinal engine theory, and how the spine and hip rotates/oscillates to create force for the legs or something. Personally, I never really bought into it. However, I can sorta see how this "spiraling technique" is connected to the spinal engine vendetta/cooper brought up often.
Yeah, just watched that combine video. He has almost no shoulder movement lol. Maybe because he's like 5ft 4ish? That's pretty short for a sprinter(and football player). Maybe it's due to shorter strides, so his turnover might be faster? I'm not really an expert on this.
I'm also surprised he's hunched over. He's not even close to 6ft lol. Honestly I don't know why, but many football guys hunch over during the 40.
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Its quite interesting the spiral technique. But i would like a detailed explanation on how to do it.
I went to the site and got this info on how to do it.
"spiraling your arms with your hand supinating on the upstroke and pronating on the downstroke"
so when you hands is coming forward and up your hands are supposed to be in a supinating position.
below is a diagram of different hand positions.
(http://groundupstrength.wdfiles.com/local--files/training%3Ahook-grip-versus-alternated-grip-for-deadlifts/forearm-supination-pronation.jpg)
That looks strange, the palms facing upwards when coming up instead of neutral position and facing down when going back.
you rotate from the elbow.
please someone explain
thanks
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I remember Kelly talking about this in the past, and if I remember right, it was supposed that it helps to push off the big toe with the feet and therefore involve the glutes better (not sure what the actual mechanism is, but that's what I remember).
Me personally - I use it when I jump off two feet without the ball in hand. I feel like I can gather more energy this way, like it gives me better rhythm etc, hard to really explain.
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Its quite interesting the spiral technique. But i would like a detailed explanation on how to do it.
I went to the site and got this info on how to do it.
"spiraling your arms with your hand supinating on the upstroke and pronating on the downstroke"
so when you hands is coming forward and up your hands are supposed to be in a supinating position.
below is a diagram of different hand positions.
(http://groundupstrength.wdfiles.com/local--files/training%3Ahook-grip-versus-alternated-grip-for-deadlifts/forearm-supination-pronation.jpg)
That looks strange, the palms facing upwards when coming up instead of neutral position and facing down when going back.
you rotate from the elbow.
please someone explain
thanks
I'll save you a lot of time by advising you not to waste your time with this stuff.
I will second Avishek's advice that "relaxation" is not as good of a cue as "awareness". Might have to steal that one :). There is nothing "relaxing" about sprinting. However, again I will remind you that it's probably not in your best interest to worry to much about spiraling your arms or relaxing at top speed. If you aim to improve and work hard enough that in a couple of years you will go from your current ability to being essentially a new person who is significantly faster.
Rather than worrying about relaxation or spiraling your hands you should continue to work on your full effort sprints as well as relaxed tempo work at about 75-80% intensity. Doing tempo work and realizing that you can go pretty fast without trying will help you learn to "relax" more when you are competing. If you train successfully you will go from:
A 140 pound person running 15.x seconds.
A 160 pound person running 11.x seconds.
The drastic improvement you can make as a beginner by just getting stronger and more powerful and accelerating to newfound speeds means that if you spending time working on your technique cues at your current levels won't pay off as much as you apply more much strength to the track and go much faster. It's akin to going to the moon and having to relearn how to run at different gravity levels. The only cues your should work to fix now are those which are gross motor inefficiencies (ie. arms coming across body, legs arms not coordinated). Cues are important but if they were as important as power in track we wouldn't have so many of what seem like counterexamples in the sport today. I forget the athletes name but the guy who got 3rd or 4th in the NCAA's 400m (I think from Illinois or somewhere in the big ten) ran a 45.1 or something and ran the last 300 meters with his torso and head tilted completely back and his back completely arched. He looked horrible. BUT he ran a 45.1. More efficient running would probably take him to approximately 44.7.... Point being he would get slightly better. BUT he has a 45.1 because he is still very very strong. That's where you want to be. It's a great problem to have. Get incredibly strong and enjoy being fast, and start worrying about these cues when you run sub 12 seconds.
Good luck!
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lol, no I've never heard of the spiraling technique. I read the link, and I think there could be come truth to it, seeing how the lats are fricken huge in general, and crosses much of the body. From a shoulder health perspective it sounds good too, because the shoulder is the most stable in internal rotation + extension, and external rotation + flexion. Maybe I'll give it a try.
I didn't bother to go back and look at vendetta's posts on the forum, but I think he's also the JC Cooper guy on elitetrack.com. I believe when he was talking about rotation, he was talking about the spinal engine theory, and how the spine and hip rotates/oscillates to create force for the legs or something. Personally, I never really bought into it. However, I can sorta see how this "spiraling technique" is connected to the spinal engine vendetta/cooper brought up often.
Yeah, just watched that combine video. He has almost no shoulder movement lol. Maybe because he's like 5ft 4ish? That's pretty short for a sprinter(and football player). Maybe it's due to shorter strides, so his turnover might be faster? I'm not really an expert on this.
I'm also surprised he's hunched over. He's not even close to 6ft lol. Honestly I don't know why, but many football guys hunch over during the 40.
Yeah interesting video. Does seem to have an exaggerated lean in his drive phase. The short arm carry reminds me a bit of jessie owens:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1XclGwJY8s
(believe thats a 10.1 in the 1930s. Goddamn. A half second faster than me in powerweb shorts and 120$ spikes in the 21st century and he is running on dirt and without blocks. Ridiculous)
As for Holliday, I'd say he had some strange combine specific coaching... (again doesn't make a huge difference). I will say he runs a lot cleaner on that in his open 100m:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yjwnZx-_BY
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Yeah interesting video. Does seem to have an exaggerated lean in his drive phase. The short arm carry reminds me a bit of jessie owens:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1XclGwJY8s
(believe thats a 10.1 in the 1930s. Goddamn. A half second faster than me in powerweb shorts and 120$ spikes in the 21st century and he is running on dirt and without blocks. Ridiculous)
As for Holliday, I'd say he had some strange combine specific coaching... (again doesn't make a huge difference). I will say he runs a lot cleaner on that in his open 100m:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yjwnZx-_BY
Haha, it's amazing how someone can run so fast without all the equipment, advances in nutrition/pharmaceuticals, and training methods. The technique back then was different tool, head up at set/out of blocks, low arm swing, etc.
That 100m of Holliday certainly looks better, armswing is a bit better, and he has better lean, instead of hunching over. The coaching didn't make a huge difference I guess, considering most of the guys who have run faster than him in the nfl combine were good track athletes.
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Its quite interesting the spiral technique. But i would like a detailed explanation on how to do it.
I went to the site and got this info on how to do it.
"spiraling your arms with your hand supinating on the upstroke and pronating on the downstroke"
so when you hands is coming forward and up your hands are supposed to be in a supinating position.
below is a diagram of different hand positions.
(http://groundupstrength.wdfiles.com/local--files/training%3Ahook-grip-versus-alternated-grip-for-deadlifts/forearm-supination-pronation.jpg)
That looks strange, the palms facing upwards when coming up instead of neutral position and facing down when going back.
you rotate from the elbow.
please someone explain
thanks
I'll save you a lot of time by advising you not to waste your time with this stuff.
I will second Avishek's advice that "relaxation" is not as good of a cue as "awareness". Might have to steal that one :). There is nothing "relaxing" about sprinting. However, again I will remind you that it's probably not in your best interest to worry to much about spiraling your arms or relaxing at top speed. If you aim to improve and work hard enough that in a couple of years you will go from your current ability to being essentially a new person who is significantly faster.
Rather than worrying about relaxation or spiraling your hands you should continue to work on your full effort sprints as well as relaxed tempo work at about 75-80% intensity. Doing tempo work and realizing that you can go pretty fast without trying will help you learn to "relax" more when you are competing. If you train successfully you will go from:
A 140 pound person running 15.x seconds.
A 160 pound person running 11.x seconds.
The drastic improvement you can make as a beginner by just getting stronger and more powerful and accelerating to newfound speeds means that if you spending time working on your technique cues at your current levels won't pay off as much as you apply more much strength to the track and go much faster. It's akin to going to the moon and having to relearn how to run at different gravity levels. The only cues your should work to fix now are those which are gross motor inefficiencies (ie. arms coming across body, legs arms not coordinated). Cues are important but if they were as important as power in track we wouldn't have so many of what seem like counterexamples in the sport today. I forget the athletes name but the guy who got 3rd or 4th in the NCAA's 400m (I think from Illinois or somewhere in the big ten) ran a 45.1 or something and ran the last 300 meters with his torso and head tilted completely back and his back completely arched. He looked horrible. BUT he ran a 45.1. More efficient running would probably take him to approximately 44.7.... Point being he would get slightly better. BUT he has a 45.1 because he is still very very strong. That's where you want to be. It's a great problem to have. Get incredibly strong and enjoy being fast, and start worrying about these cues when you run sub 12 seconds.
Good luck!
Excellent Advice mate, thanks.
Can you explain how to do tempo runs, i came across one place which said you run at a slow pace for about 15-20min.
thanks
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Can you explain how to do tempo runs, i came across one place which said you run at a slow pace for about 15-20min.
thanks
lol, that's continuous tempo. Definitely not something a sprinter should do regularly. Continuous tempo is generally for middle/long distance running. Try this:
http://www.elitetrack.com/faqs/answer/216
http://tnation.t-nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_strength/tempo_work_in_sprint_training
post number 8, which is an extensive tempo example
I know Charlie Francis liked to use extensive tempo almost exclusively, and did little to know intensive tempo work. However guys like Glen Mills(Asafa Powell's coach) think that alternating speed days and intensive tempo is better. Generally, extensive tempo is more intense than intensive tempo(duh).
Personally, I prefer extensive tempo, to keep my CNS fresh. The total volume in meters of tempo, and the distances per repetition will be based on your abilities as a sprinter.
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Can you explain how to do tempo runs, i came across one place which said you run at a slow pace for about 15-20min.
thanks
lol, that's continuous tempo. Definitely not something a sprinter should do regularly. Continuous tempo is generally for middle/long distance running. Try this:
http://www.elitetrack.com/faqs/answer/216
http://tnation.t-nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_strength/tempo_work_in_sprint_training
post number 8, which is an extensive tempo example
I know Charlie Francis liked to use extensive tempo almost exclusively, and did little to know intensive tempo work. However guys like Glen Mills(Asafa Powell's coach) think that alternating speed days and intensive tempo is better. Generally, extensive tempo is more intense than intensive tempo(duh).
Personally, I prefer extensive tempo, to keep my CNS fresh. The total volume in meters of tempo, and the distances per repetition will be based on your abilities as a sprinter.
LOL i definitely don't want that. also in another place it said do you want to be as fast as the kenyans, i was thinking no, lol, i knew that it was for long distance.
so i will incorporate the tempo runs and maybe add the float sprint float; which is i accelerate relaxed, sprint relaxed then decelerate a little relaxed.
for the tempo runs at 75-80% im not good at knowing how intense with percentages those are so im guessing reaching almost full intensity.
btw regarding the sprint float sprint from elite track it says
Sprint-float-sprints or ins-and-outs are runs of longer duration (60-90m) that can also be used to develop maximal velocity. Typically they start with a 20-35m hard acceleration (sprint). The acceleration is followed by a second segment (20-30m; the float) where the athlete focuses on running relaxed and using the momentum developed from the first acceleration. The third segment (20-30m), is basically a flying sprint (see flying sprints above).
so i accelerate full intensity, then continuing sprinting from the acceleration but relaxed, then do flying sprints which is run, then maintain that speed.
is this what you meant for speed change drills, also the third part you do flying sprints, Flying sprints are sprints of short duration (10-30m) performed with a short preceding run-in (20-30m)
so its has 4 stages to it.
overall my drills to add
tempo runs 75-80% intensity
float sprint float
sprint float sprint (flying sprint)
thanks
:wowthatwasnutswtf:
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:o
Warm-up
then
1st set 100M + 100M + 100M
2nd set 100M + 200M + 100M + 100M
3rd set 100M + 100M + 200M + 200M
4th set 100M + 200M + 100M + 100M
5th set 100M + 100M + 100M
warm down
walk 100M between sets and the "+" means walk 50M.
This means for set one you run 100M, walk 50M, run 100M, walk 50M, run 100M
Woh, that is a total of 600m for set 3. i guess will help as i want to train for the 200m as well. i haven't run 200m yet.
here is what my current routine looks like and what my new training routine will look like after 2 weeks of the current one. i am recovering from a serious ankle sprain, which is getting better so will have to wait before i start,
current
warm up and stretches
2 leg lateral line hops
1 leg lateral line hops
jump rope, 2 leg, 1 leg, alternate with high knee
ladder drills, one feet per rung, 2 feet per rung, in out 1 leg in rung.
cone drills running in and out of 8 cones 1m apart.
then comes the flying sprints, with vest on; oh yeah i do the above with weighted vest, then with vest off at full intensity
cool down.
next workout
Same stretch and mobility
wear weighted vest
2 and 1 leg lateral line hops
jump rope
ladder drills
up stairs run (these are wider and bigger surface area stairs, which
running up them would require big step), so
maybe running up them as fast as possible can help with acceleration and they have a low angle instead of the normal stairs
_ _____
_| its ___|
tire drag with vest for approx 30m
flying sprints with and without vest at full intensity
they are done on saturday, monday and wedneday.
should i add it on the same day or would that be over training or on another day and which day/s do you recommend.
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so i will incorporate the tempo runs and maybe add the float sprint float; which is i accelerate relaxed, sprint relaxed then decelerate a little relaxed.
for the tempo runs at 75-80% im not good at knowing how intense with percentages those are so im guessing reaching almost full intensity.
btw regarding the sprint float sprint from elite track it says
Sprint-float-sprints or ins-and-outs are runs of longer duration (60-90m) that can also be used to develop maximal velocity. Typically they start with a 20-35m hard acceleration (sprint). The acceleration is followed by a second segment (20-30m; the float) where the athlete focuses on running relaxed and using the momentum developed from the first acceleration. The third segment (20-30m), is basically a flying sprint (see flying sprints above).
so i accelerate full intensity, then continuing sprinting from the acceleration but relaxed, then do flying sprints which is run, then maintain that speed.
is this what you meant for speed change drills, also the third part you do flying sprints, Flying sprints are sprints of short duration (10-30m) performed with a short preceding run-in (20-30m)
so its has 4 stages to it.
overall my drills to add
tempo runs 75-80% intensity
float sprint float
sprint float sprint (flying sprint)
thanks
:wowthatwasnutswtf:
Lol, don't think about it too much. The definition is exactly what it is on there. You're plugging in the fly as if it were a variable in an algebra problem. Sprint-float-sprint is just, a hard acceleration, a relaxed sprint phase at near max velocity, and then a full-on sprint at full intensity. Todday is right in that you might not be fully "relaxed." It's just that top athletes tend to be relaxed during their top performances. It's more important that you don't strain too much during training.
As for your training, tempo work is generally used on days following high intensity days for sprinters to spare the CNS, but get in active recovery, as well as more chances for motor learning, etc. So on your Saturday, Monday, Wednesday set up, most coaches would have you do ext. tempo on Sunday, Tuesday, and Thursday as active recovery, and have Friday off. Some coaches might give you Thursday off as well, to give more complete regeneration, but that's up to you.
If you want to run at 75% intensity, then use 125% of your best 100m time(same applies for 200m if you include that in your runs) and use that as your cap for speed. For simplicity's sake, I'll use a 10 second 100m(I know not many people run this lmao). 125% of 10 is 12.5 seconds, considering you probably won't factor in reaction times during tempo, or fatigue you would use 13 seconds, meaning you can't run any faster than that(or else it's too intense for recovery). You also have to consider other factors for your capping, like running surfaces during the 100m, and your tempo training. Obviously grass surfaces will make you slower, so you have to adjust the cap accordingly, and make it easier on yourself.
For speed volume, generally you shouldn't exceed 500m of total sprinting(this is hard accelerations and the top speed portion of flies. EFE, FEF, etc.), and 300m is a good distance to shoot for. However, if you get fatigued, and your times get slower, then you should stop, even if it's at a low number.
Take it all in slow, and don't make too many changes if you don't have too. Just make sure you keep progressing, and don't aggravate that ankle of yours.
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Lol, don't think about it too much. The definition is exactly what it is on there. You're plugging in the fly as if it were a variable in an algebra problem. Sprint-float-sprint is just, a hard acceleration, a relaxed sprint phase at near max velocity, and then a full-on sprint at full intensity. Todday is right in that you might not be fully "relaxed." It's just that top athletes tend to be relaxed during their top performances. It's more important that you don't strain too much during training.
As for your training, tempo work is generally used on days following high intensity days for sprinters to spare the CNS, but get in active recovery, as well as more chances for motor learning, etc. So on your Saturday, Monday, Wednesday set up, most coaches would have you do ext. tempo on Sunday, Tuesday, and Thursday as active recovery, and have Friday off. Some coaches might give you Thursday off as well, to give more complete regeneration, but that's up to you.
If you want to run at 75% intensity, then use 125% of your best 100m time(same applies for 200m if you include that in your runs) and use that as your cap for speed. For simplicity's sake, I'll use a 10 second 100m(I know not many people run this lmao). 125% of 10 is 12.5 seconds, considering you probably won't factor in reaction times during tempo, or fatigue you would use 13 seconds, meaning you can't run any faster than that(or else it's too intense for recovery). You also have to consider other factors for your capping, like running surfaces during the 100m, and your tempo training. Obviously grass surfaces will make you slower, so you have to adjust the cap accordingly, and make it easier on yourself.
For speed volume, generally you shouldn't exceed 500m of total sprinting(this is hard accelerations and the top speed portion of flies. EFE, FEF, etc.), and 300m is a good distance to shoot for. However, if you get fatigued, and your times get slower, then you should stop, even if it's at a low number.
Take it all in slow, and don't make too many changes if you don't have too. Just make sure you keep progressing, and don't aggravate that ankle of yours.
Yup, i seem to have this problem of looking into it too much, its the same for everything, i have to make sure its exactly right, right to the tee.
i think i will take thursday and friday off i need a complete regeneration and the FEF drills add to with my normal routine.
When you say don't exceed 500m in terms of total, you are referring to the tempo example posted of the third set, which is too much as it is 600m and 300m is the total you are still referring.
so make sure each set doesn't exceed 300m in total.
Thanks for the advice.
EDIT: I forgot to mention that i was going to add core work, which i was thinking of doing maybe once or twice a week like on sunday and tuesday. would it be best to do it after the tempo work.
i was going to do, im finding it hard to chose which one to do, which one is the best for a sprinter, so i just chose the following ignoring my mind which wants to over analyze.
hanging leg raises 2 x 10
Abdominal Crunches 2 x 10
Planks:
-normal - on forearm 20sec
-lift each arm 20sec
-lift each leg 20sec
-lift each leg and alternate arm 20sec
weighted twist 2 x 10 (holding a weight around 4lbs and progress)
i am relaxed now and happy with my choice above, unless its either too much or just not going to help
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When you say don't exceed 500m in terms of total, you are referring to the tempo example posted of the third set, which is too much as it is 600m and 300m is the total you are still referring.
so make sure each set doesn't exceed 300m in total.
Lol, that's for speedwork, meaning the high intensity stuff. Your tempo work won't matter, that's supposed to be higher volume, lower intensity. You can use that Charlie Francis example, and follow it if you like. Remember, tempo is just active recovery/conditioning/motor learning. It's not speedwork. Extensive tempo can be anywhere from 1000m to 3000m total for the entire session, the sets can be as long, or as short as you want.
As for speedwork, I meant 500m should be your cap for the highest intensity sprints, on your "speed" days. 300m is a good number to try and hit, but you should stop if you drop off too much.
The core example is fine, don't be afraid to change that though Ground based ab circuits are hard to measure progress on, and changing it doesn't matter as much as your speed/tempo work.
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When you say don't exceed 500m in terms of total, you are referring to the tempo example posted of the third set, which is too much as it is 600m and 300m is the total you are still referring.
so make sure each set doesn't exceed 300m in total.
Lol, that's for speedwork, meaning the high intensity stuff. Your tempo work won't matter, that's supposed to be higher volume, lower intensity. You can use that Charlie Francis example, and follow it if you like. Remember, tempo is just active recovery/conditioning/motor learning. It's not speedwork. Extensive tempo can be anywhere from 1000m to 3000m total for the entire session, the sets can be as long, or as short as you want.
:uhhhfacepalm: LOL My Mistake, I will use charlie francis template.
As for speedwork, I meant 500m should be your cap for the highest intensity sprints, on your "speed" days. 300m is a good number to try and hit, but you should stop if you drop off too much.
regarding the 300m limit i am not sure what you are referring to? is the total of intensity sprints i do i.e.
flying sprints vest on and off and tire drag for acceleration and maintenance = 70m + 70m + 30m + 70m = 240
also SFS (sprint, float, sprint) and float sprint float = (20m+30m+20m) + (20m + 30m + 20m) = 70 + 70 = 140
which is a total of 380m
so i should get rid of float sprint float and reduce the tire drag flying sprints to 60m which would give us 300m.
or add one intensity sprint at the end and i should try and hit 300m e.g.
sprint 1 x 300m
The core example is fine, don't be afraid to change that though Ground based ab circuits are hard to measure progress on, and changing it doesn't matter as much as your speed/tempo work.
know any good non ground based ab work for sprinters, which i can measure progress, which i can change the core work from the original plan.
or i can measure progress by making it harder by doing the following.
how about add more weight to the twisting with weight
don't need to change hanging leg raises as that is non ground based.
for planks i can change it by moving my arms more in front making it hard to stabilize my core, add weights between shoulder blades.
for crunches i can start increasing the elevation of my legs and after hold on to weights behind head.
thanks
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Hey man it's great you're keen but IMO you really don't have to overcomplicate things at your current level. Forget the weighted vests and tire drags, just make a simple training program (e.g. 1 speed work session, one tempo session, two gym sessions a week) and stick with it for a few months. You'll learn a lot just from getting out there and TRAINING.
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Hey man it's great you're keen but IMO you really don't have to overcomplicate things at your current level. Forget the weighted vests and tire drags, just make a simple training program (e.g. 1 speed work session, one tempo session, two gym sessions a week) and stick with it for a few months. You'll learn a lot just from getting out there and TRAINING.
Thanks for the advice :). The main reason for this program was primarily for training movement efficiency and coordination thats why i have the SAQ drills in there and the others are secondary workouts.
i'm not going to ignore your advice, i will take it on board but the weighted vest has helped me a lot from 11.03 to 10.78 for the 72m with the vest on and from 10.8 to 10.23.
the tire drag is for acceleration training and also maintenance phase.
daballa: im going to assume you mean the total full intensity sprints i do and try and hit 300m, right?
Sprint Float Sprint = 20 + 30 + 20 = 70m
Flying Sprint 30m with vest and without vest = 70 + 70 = 140m
Tire drag 30m = 30 m
Flying Sprint 30m tire drag for maintenance = 60m = 230m
total = 300m
So this is my final workout
Saturday, Monday, Wednesday
Wear Weighted Vest
Lateral Line Hops
Jump Rope
- 2 Leg
- 1 Leg
- Alternate Leg with high knee
Ladder drills
- 1 Leg per Rung
- 2 Leg per Rung
Up Stair Run x 2
Sprint Float Sprint = 20m,30m,20m
Tire drag 30m x 1
Flying Sprint 30m tire drag for maintenance = 60m including run up (Temporary may remove if i see a drop in time.)
Flying Sprint 30m with vest and without vest = 70m including run up
Sunday, Tuesday
Warm-up
1st set 100M + 100M + 100M
2nd set 100M + 200M + 100M + 100M
3rd set 100M + 100M + 200M + 200M
4th set 100M + 200M + 100M + 100M
5th set 100M + 100M + 100M
hanging leg raises 2 x 10
Abdominal Crunches 2 x 10
Planks:
- Normal (on forearm) 20sec
- Lift each arm 20sec
- Lift each leg 20sec
- Lift each leg and alternate arm 20sec
Weighted twist 2 x 10 (holding a weight around 4lbs and progress)
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So am i good to go and start the routine i showed.
Thanks for all the help guys, really appreciate it.
:highfive:
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Just did my training today, had to be moderately light, especially during sprints i had to do slow and medium knee lifts because i could feel pain during the run.
but today i decided to try and run relaxed keeping in my mind to be relaxed and guess what... i was running, breathing and i could feel my jaw bobbing up and down small movements.
:headbang:
it wasn't that hard, also i try and not to tense my shoulders by keeping the range of motion of my arms the same, as i practice by standing and doing arm swings.
should i still incorporate the float sprint float.
the extensive tempo is for the endurance part to try and maintain my maxv at top speed so i will keep that.
if i get rid of float sprint float the total full intensity sprint comes down to 240m.
so what shall i add to rise back up to 300m.
::)
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I am not only training for 100m but also 200m.
So i have decided to encorporate the sprint, float, sprint, not to help with relaxing but help with floating during the 200m race
which i read from this site
http://www.athletesacceleration.com/200metertraining.html
cool site and helpful.
leave it as it was 20m, 30m, 20m.
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I will also have to improve my arm swings, i can tell that if you can swing arms fast enough you have good chances of becoming faster, not cancelling out weight training which is first priority, but arm swing speed helps especially in the starting blocks the elite sprinters arms are traveling fast and my arms lack the speed.