Author Topic: Why The Lifeline Power Jumper Worked For Me / Greedy For More Gains (Read 4611 times)

Gary · « **on:** June 14, 2011, 01:19:46 pm »

I got my squat and deadlift and bodyweight up quite a bit in the last couple of years. I would practice jumping frequently during all this, and I would occasionally do a few months of dedicated weightlifting. I even incorporated jump squats and such. Vertical stayed the same.

I put on the power jumper on Jack Woodrup's recommendation and got immediate results. Did one session per week as my "dynamic day" and a month later I was jumping 5 inches higher. Broad jump was 13" farther.

Started a thread on SS about it and immediately got into fights. One of those fights about what exactly the jumper improved. Someone said technique and I rejoined along the lines of "technique if by technique you mean raw speed in the descent."

I think the overspeed eccentric did a lot more for me than resistance in the concentric phase. It's my understanding that I could have gotten an overspeed effect from drop jumps, but the bands gave this effect without making me have to land on a hard surface after a fall. This is no small matter with someone with beat up knees like mine.

Maybe I'm being a little greedy, but I want even more gains, despite getting 5" in a month. I'm at 28" now and I just want to crack 30" because it's a nice round number and where most people consider getting beyond average. The power jumper's effects seem to be waning, however. Meanwhile my squat strength seems to be picking up (I currently squat high bar without a belt but with loose knee wraps). I just have a feeling I can squeeze more inches out of my current (and improving) strength levels. I'd say I have plenty of strength for a 30" vertical (~350 high bar without a belt at 180) and I need more speed.

What I wonder is if I'd be better off keeping the overspeed eccentric and eliminating the extra resistance at the top. That is to say, replacing the power jumper with drop jumps. I got heavier bands for the jumper and they don't seem to be helping any. I think I may be adding too much of a strength component with the resistance after the quicker eccentric. The only way to get the quicker eccentric without the band resistance in the concentric is to drop from a box, right?

Thanks for reading.

adarqui · « **Reply #1 on:** June 14, 2011, 01:42:27 pm »

Quote from: Gary on June 14, 2011, 01:19:46 pm

I got my squat and deadlift and bodyweight up quite a bit in the last couple of years. I would practice jumping frequently during all this, and I would occasionally do a few months of dedicated weightlifting. I even incorporated jump squats and such. Vertical stayed the same.

could you elaborate on your actual gains in squat/deadlift/bodyweight? would be nice to know in understanding the "puzzle" a bit more.

Quote

I put on the power jumper on Jack Woodrup's recommendation and got immediate results. Did one session per week as my "dynamic day" and a month later I was jumping 5 inches higher. Broad jump was 13" farther.

Started a thread on SS about it and immediately got into fights. One of those fights about what exactly the jumper improved. Someone said technique and I rejoined along the lines of "technique if by technique you mean raw speed in the descent."

I think the overspeed eccentric did a lot more for me than resistance in the concentric phase. It's my understanding that I could have gotten an overspeed effect from drop jumps, but the bands gave this effect without making me have to land on a hard surface after a fall. This is no small matter with someone with beat up knees like mine.

you kept everything the same, and simply incorporated the lifeline power jumper, during that month?

Quote

Maybe I'm being a little greedy, but I want even more gains, despite getting 5" in a month. I'm at 28" now and I just want to crack 30" because it's a nice round number and where most people consider getting beyond average. The power jumper's effects seem to be waning, however. Meanwhile my squat strength seems to be picking up (I currently squat high bar without a belt but with loose knee wraps). I just have a feeling I can squeeze more inches out of my current (and improving) strength levels. I'd say I have plenty of strength for a 30" vertical (~350 high bar without a belt at 180) and I need more speed.

whatever you did, it seems to have decreased your explosive strength deficit (ESD), allowing you to utilize more of the strength you already have, in that crucial time frame for vert.. MAX STRENGTH - EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH = ESD.. so if you increase maxS without increasing exS, deficit increases.. to me it sounds like you bridged that gap better during that month, somehow, though i'm not sure how you got 5 inches SIMPLY from incorporating LLPJ'r 1x/week.. if you incorporated it 2-3x/week then it would make more sense as a stimulus, that's why im wondering what you did with the other aspects of your training, ie your lifts.

Quote

What I wonder is if I'd be better off keeping the overspeed eccentric and eliminating the extra resistance at the top. That is to say, replacing the power jumper with drop jumps. I got heavier bands for the jumper and they don't seem to be helping any. I think I may be adding too much of a strength component with the resistance after the quicker eccentric. The only way to get the quicker eccentric without the band resistance in the concentric is to drop from a box, right?

Thanks for reading.

depth drops & depth jumps would definitely be a huge graduation from power jumper.. the only difference between those exercises and LLPJ is "how the tension is received", any time you add bands, it "changes gravity", so, it's a slightly different stimulus for the body.. that said, the biggest eccentric contractions you will experience, would come from depth drops or depth jumps.. make sure you can land "quiet" from a box height before you try and depth jump it.. you want a nice quiet smooth landing without much change in center of gravity AFTER you make contact with the ground.. depth jumps should provide a much better stimulus for exS gains, even maxS gains, just progress carefully considering your knee comment...... 4x5 from 12", then 18", then eventually 24-30", but that progression should happen over a few months at least, 1 month being spent on 12 or 18", then transitioning into more intense work if capable.

intense depth jumps cause supramaximal "protective" contractions, which then teach your body how to recruit those motor units WITHOUT the need for it to be a protective mechanism...

beyond that, make sure you're lifting with speed.. every "transition" from ECC TO CON, should happen as explosive as possible, that is the most crucial aspect of any lift..

peace man

Gary · « **Reply #2 on:** June 14, 2011, 02:03:26 pm »

Thanks for that detailed response!

This info is in my "Introduce Yourself" post so I'm being a bit redundant, but here is a brief history...

I am a little under 5'10" in bare feet. I weighed 125-130 at age 20 and 145 at age 30 after ten years of shitty magazine-inspired training.

I slid into competitive powerlifting via Pavel and then Rip. Went from a squatting and pulling 245 and 335 at 145 to squatting and pulling 315 and 405 at 165 (beltelss, high bar and conventional). Then I got up to 180 and squatted and pulled 418 and 506 in competition raw USAPL (with belt, low bar squat and sumo deadlift). That was last year and knee troubles and overdoing it forced me to take a break from competing.

Earlier this year I was trying my hand at dedicated weightlifting. At 175-180 I got my Olympic-style squat a little north of 345. I finally started myofascial release work in the winter, which was badly needed for my quads and IT band and that helped get my squat moving up again. I recently did a dedicated deadlift cycle and got my beltless conventional pull from where it was languishing back around 405 to a little over 450. Squat was recently down to 315 because I took a break, but after one session in the new cycle it's already back to 345.

When I made my recent jump gains, I was doing another dedicated deadlift cycle. So I wasn't squatting which is very rare for me. I was maintaining PVC rolling (actually slacking a little bit) and I added in some Bulgarian split squats, which I really liked. The only real new element was the dynamic day of jumping with those bands. I'd do a couple sets of triples, decrease the resistance, do another set of triples then try for a new PR without the bands. Did this for both vertical and broad jumps. Got increases almost every time.

To be honest, I'm a lot prouder of my broad jump gains. I was struggling to hit 8' before and now I can usually get over 9' when reasonably rested and my PR there is 9'3", which I've hit three times.

Edit: Forgot to mention, that I was jumping pretty regularly throughout the week. It was fun to be jumping higher all the time and I had to force myself not to make random attempts every single day of the week. So the constant, unresisted practice probably helped.

BUT my first gains came the very first time I tried the jumper. Went from 23" to 25" immediately after I did a few sets of triples with the bands. This leads me to believe that the bands themselves and the overspeed they provided were key.

Also, I'll be traveling a lot soon and for most of the summer. I was planning to use the resulting spotty access to weights for dedicated and more intense jump/speed training, including shock methods.

Raptor · « **Reply #3 on:** June 14, 2011, 04:51:59 pm »

Very interesting. I'll start using my powerjumper again and see what happens. Will probably limit it's use to low box depth jumps and two-leg bounds and broad jumps, since in a one-leg bound, because one leg is flexed, it won't have any effect (or even worse - make the bound imbalanced).

Gary · « **Reply #4 on:** June 14, 2011, 05:12:01 pm »

Quote from: Raptor on June 14, 2011, 04:51:59 pm

Very interesting. I'll start using my powerjumper again and see what happens. Will probably limit it's use to low box depth jumps and two-leg bounds and broad jumps, since in a one-leg bound, because one leg is flexed, it won't have any effect (or even worse - make the bound imbalanced).

Good luck! But I don't expect my gains were typical. I had developed a humongous deficit. Even though I kept jumping, I was focused on squatting more and getting bigger. People who have been training with more balance probably won't get the drastic results I did, or at least not as quickly. Would have thought a 20%+ increase in jump height would have taken months, not weeks. Of course, now they really seem to be slowing down. But I can't complain that much because I'm a lot further ahead right now than I thought I'd be at this point. I even managed to dunk a small soccer ball with a two-step run on a 9'10" rim yesterday! First time dunking anything. Even though it's a couple inches short of official height and it's a smaller ball, I'm still very happy. I could barely touch a 9'10 rim a couple months ago, even in shoes and with a run up.

adarqui · « **Reply #5 on:** June 17, 2011, 01:11:33 pm »

Quote from: Gary on June 14, 2011, 05:12:01 pm

Quote from: Raptor on June 14, 2011, 04:51:59 pm
Very interesting. I'll start using my powerjumper again and see what happens. Will probably limit it's use to low box depth jumps and two-leg bounds and broad jumps, since in a one-leg bound, because one leg is flexed, it won't have any effect (or even worse - make the bound imbalanced).

Good luck! But I don't expect my gains were typical. I had developed a humongous deficit. Even though I kept jumping, I was focused on squatting more and getting bigger. People who have been training with more balance probably won't get the drastic results I did, or at least not as quickly. Would have thought a 20%+ increase in jump height would have taken months, not weeks. Of course, now they really seem to be slowing down. But I can't complain that much because I'm a lot further ahead right now than I thought I'd be at this point. I even managed to dunk a small soccer ball with a two-step run on a 9'10" rim yesterday! First time dunking anything. Even though it's a couple inches short of official height and it's a smaller ball, I'm still very happy. I could barely touch a 9'10 rim a couple months ago, even in shoes and with a run up.

nice! good gains man

JackW · « **Reply #6 on:** June 19, 2011, 08:46:37 pm »

Nice gains Gary. Andrew is right that depth jumps and depth landings do provide a more intense eccentric stimulus than the power jumper and learning to land like a cat will help you in more ways than one. I am also very happy to hear you are getting some positive results from the LLPJ. I sometimes feel like a bit if an idiot banging on about it but I have lots of feedback like yours from people who have used it and my own experiences echo your sentiments. It isn't a magic bullet but as a fellow member of the beat up knees club being able to get a little overspeed eccentric without the extra impact of depth jumps is a nice option.

One other thing you can try is using a lower box for your depth jumps with a single tube of PJ resistance. It is a reasonable compromise. Also good stuff on dunking the soccer ball. It is the first step to dunking on a full size ring and being able to dunk something, anything, is a better motivator than just running up and touching the rim.

Keep up the hard work. You have found a great site here and you wont get any bullshit training advice from the collective intelligence of guys who post.

Raptor · « **Reply #7 on:** June 20, 2011, 05:02:15 am »

Yeah, here is like the Borg - resistence is futile!

Gary · « **Reply #8 on:** June 24, 2011, 11:34:20 pm »

Quote from: JackW on June 19, 2011, 08:46:37 pm

Nice gains Gary. Andrew is right that depth jumps and depth landings do provide a more intense eccentric stimulus than the power jumper and learning to land like a cat will help you in more ways than one. I am also very happy to hear you are getting some positive results from the LLPJ. I sometimes feel like a bit if an idiot banging on about it but I have lots of feedback like yours from people who have used it and my own experiences echo your sentiments. It isn't a magic bullet but as a fellow member of the beat up knees club being able to get a little overspeed eccentric without the extra impact of depth jumps is a nice option.

One other thing you can try is using a lower box for your depth jumps with a single tube of PJ resistance. It is a reasonable compromise. Also good stuff on dunking the soccer ball. It is the first step to dunking on a full size ring and being able to dunk something, anything, is a better motivator than just running up and touching the rim.

Keep up the hard work. You have found a great site here and you wont get any bullshit training advice from the collective intelligence of guys who post.

I meant to thank you for plugging the PPJ so hard. Yeah, I know what you mean about feeling like a tool for going on about it, but it's worth it. I've gone on a couple other sites and sang its praises.

What I wonder is if it can all be so simple as concentrated squat loading followed by band jumping (the PPJ makes it easy, but plain ol' jumpstretch bands could be used as well).

I got a medium band when I bought the set that included the two light ones. I made all my gains on those. I bought three heavy bands for future improvements. May turn out to have been overkill.

And yes, this site is a great resource. A little slow on the posting activity, but that's okay.

dirksilver · « **Reply #9 on:** June 26, 2011, 02:29:05 pm »

i too love my power jumper...just thought i'd mention that...i'll tell you the only draw back i've really seen with it is when doing running double leg vertical jumps the band always gets in front of my knees and kind of changes up my jump a little...anyone else notice this?

Raptor · « **Reply #10 on:** June 26, 2011, 02:43:08 pm »

I think it depends on how you attach it.

I attach it from behind the heel towards the middle of the foot. You can also attach it from your toes inside your foot.

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Author Topic: Why The Lifeline Power Jumper Worked For Me / Greedy For More Gains (Read 4611 times)

Gary

Why The Lifeline Power Jumper Worked For Me / Greedy For More Gains

adarqui

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Gary

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Raptor

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Gary

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adarqui

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JackW

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Raptor

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Gary

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dirksilver

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Raptor

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