Author Topic: Jump analysis  (Read 5349 times)

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Sean0013

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Jump analysis
« on: January 15, 2011, 06:50:26 pm »
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Any possibility either of you guys could have a look at my plant/jump and let me know what you think of my form. What should I be focusing on in my training:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqugpAbyKi4" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqugpAbyKi4</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUJc9rCTKW4" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUJc9rCTKW4</a>

I jump at least 10-20% higher off two feet than I do on one if that's worth anything in figuring stuff out.
Goals by May 2011

1. Squat 120kg x 8
2. Deadlift 140 kg x 1
3. Jump Hang-snatch 70kg

Progress tracker
http://www.adarq.org/forum/progress-journals-experimental-routines/super-saiyan-()/msg44017/#msg44017

adarqui

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Re: Jump analysis
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2011, 12:33:08 am »
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those jumps look pretty good to me, good acceleration in the runup + coming in on a nice curve, nice plant, coordination/efficiency looks good in the plant.. just comes down to producing more force imo.


Raptor

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Re: Jump analysis
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2011, 06:30:20 am »
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I'm willing to bet expensive things you will get higher if you kick the legs like Adarqui is doing. That is, pulling the heels to the butt after your triple extension. You're not doing that right now and I'm not doing it either, yet when I do it the body has a totally different dynamics. You can argue it doesn't matter what you do in mid air but to me at least - it does. Maybe it's a matter of body perception/proprioceptivity, stretching, tightness, I don't know and don't give a shit. Just do that.

adarqui

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Re: Jump analysis
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2011, 07:10:20 am »
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I'm willing to bet expensive things you will get higher if you kick the legs like Adarqui is doing. That is, pulling the heels to the butt after your triple extension. You're not doing that right now and I'm not doing it either, yet when I do it the body has a totally different dynamics. You can argue it doesn't matter what you do in mid air but to me at least - it does. Maybe it's a matter of body perception/proprioceptivity, stretching, tightness, I don't know and don't give a shit. Just do that.

bleh..

how is he going to get higher by kicking the legs like i do?

it won't.. all that's going to do is wreck his jumping, trying to do that.. it has no effect on vert, it's just something some people do.

 :pissed:

Raptor

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Re: Jump analysis
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2011, 07:22:26 am »
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This is the one thing that I don't care for any logical explanation.

Take a look at this:  :ibjumping:

LanceSTS

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Re: Jump analysis
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2011, 07:33:01 am »
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those jumps look pretty good to me, good acceleration in the runup + coming in on a nice curve, nice plant, coordination/efficiency looks good in the plant.. just comes down to producing more force imo.



x2, looks good to me too.  in the first video the plant looks slightly different than the ones in the second, the plant leg makes a bigger step in preparation for the jump, loading the hip more.  In alot of cases this will produce a bigger jump, but the body will tend to do this on its own when the hips are strong and powerful enough.  
Relax.

Sean0013

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Re: Jump analysis
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2011, 08:01:09 am »
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I'm willing to bet expensive things you will get higher if you kick the legs like Adarqui is doing. That is, pulling the heels to the butt after your triple extension. You're not doing that right now and I'm not doing it either, yet when I do it the body has a totally different dynamics. You can argue it doesn't matter what you do in mid air but to me at least - it does. Maybe it's a matter of body perception/proprioceptivity, stretching, tightness, I don't know and don't give a shit. Just do that.


hahahaha....For what it's worth I do that sometimes...I think it may be a case of being more flexible may cause your legs to pop up unconsciously, where as if your tight they won't do that. As for whether it will help you by doing it, I don't think so. Being flexible in the right amount and in the right places would help I guess.

Thanks for the feedback. As of now, i'm continuing with my plan for January to get my bodyweight back to 155lbs and to get my squat back to, or hopefully above, where it was at Christmas. I'll see how i'm doing at the end of January anyway and reassess then.
Goals by May 2011

1. Squat 120kg x 8
2. Deadlift 140 kg x 1
3. Jump Hang-snatch 70kg

Progress tracker
http://www.adarq.org/forum/progress-journals-experimental-routines/super-saiyan-()/msg44017/#msg44017

Raptor

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Re: Jump analysis
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2011, 09:44:27 am »
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I'm willing to bet expensive things you will get higher if you kick the legs like Adarqui is doing. That is, pulling the heels to the butt after your triple extension. You're not doing that right now and I'm not doing it either, yet when I do it the body has a totally different dynamics. You can argue it doesn't matter what you do in mid air but to me at least - it does. Maybe it's a matter of body perception/proprioceptivity, stretching, tightness, I don't know and don't give a shit. Just do that.


hahahaha....For what it's worth I do that sometimes...I think it may be a case of being more flexible may cause your legs to pop up unconsciously, where as if your tight they won't do that. As for whether it will help you by doing it, I don't think so. Being flexible in the right amount and in the right places would help I guess.

Thanks for the feedback. As of now, i'm continuing with my plan for January to get my bodyweight back to 155lbs and to get my squat back to, or hopefully above, where it was at Christmas. I'll see how i'm doing at the end of January anyway and reassess then.

Yeah it might be a sing of good or bad hip flexor flexibility. If you stay on your knees and lean backwards, that's stretching your quads since you're extending the hips and flexing the knees, putting any biarticulate muscle that's over these two joints in passive insufficiency. If your quads/hip flexors are bad you won't be able to do it well when you jump, which at the same time will mean it hinders your jump (because the hip flexors are tight so they oppose hip extension). So maybe that's still telling you something.

djoe

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Re: Jump analysis
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2011, 11:33:36 am »
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or mb muscle flexibility isnt the only factor affecting that?
re-evaluate, daniel-san, re-evaluate

Raptor

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Re: Jump analysis
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2011, 02:05:59 pm »
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Or maybe it's the antagonistic effect of the hamstrings in quad-dominant people that, as a side effect, flexes the knees.

adarqui

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Re: Jump analysis
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2011, 05:51:48 pm »
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Or maybe it's the antagonistic effect of the hamstrings in quad-dominant people that, as a side effect, flexes the knees.

so by this statement, if it were true, you would have to agree that most elite jumpers are quad dominant? most of the highest jumpers have that reflexive knee flexion in the air.

the only one i can really think of right now, who has some insanely high completely stiff legged jumps, is air up there.. he has some videos where he doesn't bend those legs at all and he's hitting 45+.. here's just a random vid, check 40 seconds etc, barely knee flexes:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1iYcnRqx9k" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1iYcnRqx9k</a>

peace

Sean0013

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Re: Jump analysis
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2011, 06:09:12 pm »
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I'll video some footage with my jumping like that...I do do it sometimes but it's often when i'm jumping from distances that are further away from the hoop (acrobatic layups - nutjob dunk attempts!). It's hard in the gym where I train aswell 'cos that shit is mad slippery, and my apartment is my small aswell!
Goals by May 2011

1. Squat 120kg x 8
2. Deadlift 140 kg x 1
3. Jump Hang-snatch 70kg

Progress tracker
http://www.adarq.org/forum/progress-journals-experimental-routines/super-saiyan-()/msg44017/#msg44017

Raptor

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Re: Jump analysis
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2011, 04:19:56 am »
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Well we might be on to something... I don't know. There could be so many explanations...

adarqui

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Re: Jump analysis
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2011, 07:52:40 pm »
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Well we might be on to something... I don't know. There could be so many explanations...

well it is interesting and you did bring up a good point..

i too would like to know why "air up there" doesn't cycle his legs in the air.. i would like to know the neurophysiological reason. he sometimes 'reflexively' flexes at the knee in the air, but most of the time it looks forced for 'flair'.. he is someone that could jump up and stay completely stiff legged.. i'll TRY to do that on some jumps on my next dunk session but honestly it's really difficult, i've trained, and my legs just continue to flex.

AUT's ankles are crazy strong, that's for sure.

golden child does it too:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMp7KbtP-98" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMp7KbtP-98</a>

thing is, you're only going to be able to tell if it's a POWER dunk + MAX height.. any time someone is windmilling, legs will cycle a bit.. so, if you wanted to see, you'd have to find max height power dunks and analyze those.. t-dub seems to flex on his max jumps, from what i remember..

golden child and AUT seem to be very similar builds.

I imagine locking out completely and 'staying stiff' on the way up, would indicate even more glute in the jump..

Raptor

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Re: Jump analysis
« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2011, 04:00:11 am »
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I've watched Vince throughout his entire career and when he was young, he was flexing the knees a lot. Nowadays he rarely does it. That also applies off one leg. When younger he used to pull that heel to the butt quite a bit, now it's all stiff-straight leg when he jumps off one leg.

It could be the speed/power of the irradiating impulse (that automatically triggers the contraction of the hamstrings), it could be hamstring antagonistic effect, it could be more use of the hamstrings in some people and less in other (the hamstrings to be activated on both the hip extension and flexing). It's interesting since when your hips are extended and your knees are flexed, then the hamstrings are in active issuficiency (shortened at both ends) so they are completely contracted. That's gotta be a clue.

It could also be a manner the body interprets (well, the brain) to conserve energy or to make the "body spread" lower. It's hard to control a full spread-out/extended body. The closer the limbs are to the center of gravity the more "solid" the body is. So obviously there are many things that can influence this.

Interestingly enough, I studied the moment when I stop my ascent and start my descent in a jump. Guess what? I start my descent when my right leg (which is non-jumping) gets fully extended. Every time. When I straighten that up completely it's then when I stop my ascent. Not sure what's up with that, probably I have good coordination so it's a coincidence since you can't really do stuff to affect your trajectory much in mid-air, but interesting nonetheless.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2011, 04:05:55 am by Raptor »