Author Topic: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on  (Read 50553 times)

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Raptor

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Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2010, 04:28:52 pm »
-1
So Zetz and I are in the same boat? Is squatflex shipped to boats?

LanceSTS

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Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
« Reply #16 on: November 25, 2010, 04:47:21 pm »
0
Hey Andrew,

I wasn't trying to claim that band training is necessarily superior to all other forms of training, what I was saying is that it has some credible people backing it up.  Lance has an article on this forum devoted to accommodation resistance for vertical jump and speed training.  Westside Barbell started using bands and chains years ago.  My point is that some great athletes use bands and chains but it's not like the Squatflex is used by the best ahtletes in the world.

I also agree with your point that inexperienced athletes shouldn't be using accommodating resistance.  Chuck Vogelpohl said that band training for inexperienced athletes is dangerous in his WSB video.

The convenience argument about the squatflex makes no sense to me because there is a gym almost anywhere in America.  This may be an issue if you lived in any of the following locations:
 
MEXICO
ROMANIA
QUEBEC
BELGIUM
AFRICA

Let's just hope Squatflex can be shipped there.



Right, bands ADDED to FREEWEIGHT can be very beneficial, they provide a method of accomdating resistance and accelerate the eccentric by providing kinetic energy on the decent.  Louie and I both would laugh very hard at the idea of using only band tension as the sole means of resistance.  Bands will make up a very small percentage of the of the total load on the bar in most instances.   Trying to market a piece of trash product like the squatflex based off the band concept is very silly, they are simply reaching for validation of their trash.   
Relax.

zgin

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Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2010, 05:38:13 pm »
0
So Zetz and I are in the same boat? Is squatflex shipped to boats?

squat flex only ships to boats docked in coastal kansas.
37.5

Raptor

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Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2010, 01:36:04 am »
-1
I thought it's being made on a boat!

XxZxX

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Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2010, 11:10:43 pm »
0
Can't ship to Romania cause Dracula doesn't want any competition in his blood sucking businesses.

Raptor

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Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
« Reply #20 on: November 27, 2010, 05:46:50 am »
-1
I agree, but what about Mexico? Oh wait, that's where USA threw out it's swine flu virus to test it on people.

TheSituation

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Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
« Reply #21 on: November 27, 2010, 08:49:17 pm »
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I agree, but what about Mexico? Oh wait, that's where USA threw out it's swine flu virus to test it on people.
I don't lift for girls, I lift for guys on the internet



[7:31pm] adarq: ripp, being honest, it's hard for u to beat jcsbck, he's on fire lately
[7:31pm] adarq: he's just
[7:31pm] adarq: wrecking people
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Say NO to Maroko

And also NO to anyone who associates with him. No Taylor Allan. No Adam Scammenauger. No Kelly Baggett. No Elliot Hulse. No Jtrinsey. NO JUMP USA


Don't PM me asking me training questions. I'm here for the lulz. If you want help, post on the forums and get help from all the members, maybe even me.


Raptor

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Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
« Reply #23 on: November 28, 2010, 05:50:00 am »
0
So you don't have anything to do with that "jumpusascam" user that has been created on 27th November 2010, right? ;D

Jacob Hiller

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Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
« Reply #24 on: December 16, 2010, 11:01:05 am »
+1
Just wanted a chance to represent myself...

I know you guys hate Squat Flex, and many of the reasons agree with.

However, after trying the equipment AND considering the situation of most of it's users, I still hold that Squat Flex has value.

Before you flame me out or cuss me out, at least hear me out.  I don't think I should be shunned for life ;)  Just for my honest opinion of the SF.

If you can convince me otherwise I'll agree with you, but I don't think my point of view is understood here.

When I reviewed Squat Flex I posted a video about the reasons why.. most SF haters didn't watch it.. because they feel they already know the the facts... but...

Here's what I hear Squat Flex haters saying...

1. Most of you disagree with marketing tactics used by Jump USA.
ME - I don't like the over hyped marketing either.. I agree.   And if people we're lying about their testimonials.. that's not cool and I don't like that either.

2. Squat Flex is the same as a barbell hack squat.
ME - I disagree with this, and I think the resistance curve is different as well as the eccentric load, etc.. More on this below.

3. Squat Flex is overpriced.
ME - i don't know the JUSA's production cost, but price is is subjective.  Personally I think it's a bit high.  But price is subjective AND price is something to be determined individually.  People can make that decision.

4. It's better to get a gym membership.
ME - The VAST majority of everyone who bought Squat Flex from on my promotion, doesn't have access to great facilities, transportation, or simply prefers to train at home.

I made this clear in my video... and also clear that heavy band resistance isn't unique to Squat Flex, and if you have convenient regular access to top notch facilities then Squat Flex offers little more benefit then simply an easy at home workout.

5. But a barbell and weights is cheaper.
ME - From my comparison, buying a barbell and weights is MUCH more expensive... and doens't offer any band resistance.  Also, it's not near as convenient.  Many people buy the Squat Flex for convenience alone... them doing the Squat Flex and at home is their most convenient workout.

6. Squat Flex is dangerous:
ME - When taught properly I think it's just as safe or more safe than a Squat.  I know many disagree but failing on a back squat is scary compared to missing a Squat Flex lift.

7. There is ONLY one exercise.
ME - I list at least 10 that can be done with the Squat Flex that I think are highly affective.

8. It only trains the top portion of the lift.
ME - I think this is inherently the biggest problem with doing pure band weight.

The resistance curve doesn't match the users strength curve in an optimal manner.

However, I think using isometric holds with greater tension at the lower position, dont body weight exercises at home (pistol, banded pistol, bulgarian split squat/jumps/ etc..) supplements the weaknesses here.

To simplify - Squat flex + Squat Flex Isometrics + body weight > (is better than) body weight exercises at home.

That's why I gave the extra body weight stuff, and additional exercises away with it.  Because I feel it needs them to work well.

Again.. 90% est are doing this at home without any equipment and that's just the facts of it.

---

We went over all this in my videos...

I made the review becuase I had users already who used and liked the Squat Flex, and who were asking me about it.  I had about 100 requests to review or test the machine.  Again almost all of these came from people who were training at home with our body weight exercises.

Is the Squat Flex the best thing ever?

I never claimed that, and just tried to present the facts.

Does the Squat Flex provide people who ONLY train from home a supplemental exercise to build sport specific jumping power?

I still believe it does.

It's actually a fun little home workout, that can place massive tension on the vertical jumping prime movers. IMO

... Most of the arguments against the Squat Flex I end up agreeing with OR they don't hit home.

Many are going to reply saying... BUT! They should just get access to a gym and get some bands for accommodating resistance.  I teach this all the time in our coaching sessions, but it doesn't apply to most people who bought Squat Flex.

Anyways maybe I will get called names, or get shunned for life, but the above is just my opinion.

By all means, I'm open to being wrong here.  But most of the Squat Flex haters didn't watch my videos or used one of the above complaints.


Jacob Hiller

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Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
« Reply #25 on: December 16, 2010, 01:53:30 pm »
0
I'd be glad to discuss my views on the above.. it's clear that man of you will disagree.

The "problem" is that generalizing that's done on a person's competency and character if you happen to disagree on this point.

I have seen Adam L., Eric Cressey, myself, and others to name a few who have been called out for being associated with a program that is evidentally the "mark of the devil."  I have a lot of respect for those guys, maybe we disagree on a few finer points of "training doctrine" but it certainly doesn't disqualify their positive contributions to the body of training knowledge.

I can see you flaming on pure marketers...

But I honestly don't think my position is that crazy... but the hate you guys have for the marketers is passed off into anyone who has ANY positive association with Squat Flex or any other product that has been been demonized.

To be honest, if I met you guys outside of this forum or the WWW I'm quite sure we'd have a lot to talk about, and if Squat Flex or any other training matter came up I'm sure it wouldn't "turn sour" all of a sudden if we disagreed on whether it was useful. 

If you disagree with me.. no problem, if you want to discuss in a friendly/open way, I'm always down.

Jack W. for example has always been not only a trainer I respect and follow, and someone who was amenable to open debate.  We haven't agreed on everything, but Jack doesn't call me the devil, and I surely don't respect him any less.  But I always enjoy to hear what he has to say and to bounce ideas with him...

Anyways, I'd hope that a good open even passionate debate is possible without so much demonizing or mud slinging... unless we're really talking about someone with only bad or ill intentions.

Just saying..



LBSS

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Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
« Reply #26 on: December 16, 2010, 02:07:52 pm »
0
LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, I PRESENT TO YOU...THE DEVIL!!!!!!!!!!

 :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang:

Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

sunday: long very easy run 80+ mins @ 5:40+ (14+ km)
monday: strength/cross training
tuesday: easy run 60+ mins @ 5:20-5:30 (11+ km)
wednesday: fartlek (mostly easy pace with mix of strides, hills, long tempo) 45 mins (8+ km)
thursday: easy run 60+ mins @ 5:20-5:30 (11+ km), strength/cross-training
friday: rest
saturday: short tempo 6-8x500 @ sub-4:00 (7 km)

strength would be:
- hops 2x10
- box jumps or ME SVJ 2x5
- squats 3x6-8 or weighted BSS/lunges 3x10/leg
- RDL/hypers 2x10-12 or SLRDL 2x10-12/leg
- upper push myo-reps or sets to technical failure
- upper pull myo-reps or sets to technical failure
- leg raises, holds, pallof presses

LanceSTS

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Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
« Reply #27 on: December 16, 2010, 03:38:08 pm »
0
 Nobody will flame you for coming on here and discussing your position on the squatflex, if you are really open minded about this issue then that is respectable.  Fwiw, I have tried to see the upside to it but when it all comes down to the wire the only real reason I can see for someone who understands performance training to reccomend it is money, plain and simple.  All these videos/emails/promotions are all coming out at the same time, that alone kind of cues you in on the fact that jump usa is giving some incentives (money, mailing lists, co promotion of products, etc.) to get their product out and sell lots of them.  Its getting near Christmas time and marketers know that kids can influence their parents to buy things for them.  If your video and promotion would have randomly came out at another time because you honestly believed that the squatflex was a good piece of equipment, that would be totally different. 

  The price of that thing is insane for what it is, a kid could easily get a set of adjustable dumbells and do things like walking lunges, step ups, snatches, etc. (and 10,000 other exercises) that would benefit them alot more than doing deadlifts and hack squats on the squatflex and a WHOLE lot less money.  But jumpusa is not paying people to promote dumbells or things that have actually helped athletes, theyre paying them to promote equipment that they sell and made to make a killer profit on.  I strongly believe in using bands with free weights when the situation calls for it, but the bands on the squatflex are not some revolutionary idea jumpusa came up with, they use bands because the shipping on free weights would be unreasonable and they couldnt make nearly the profit they do by throwing together a stick and platform with some cheap bands as the sole means of resistance.

 I agree with what you are saying about needing to lift explosively, the problem with that is how the hell is a kid gonna lift explosively on that thing?  There is a video earlier in this thread of a kid who has already hurt his back doing the hack squats with a controlled tempo, if he were attempting to lift explosively his form would be even worse and he would likely be injured to the point of not being able to train for a while. 

Alot the guys (and you too) who are marketing that thing have already made alot of money off selling these same impressionable kids things online which is fine and dandy, if you have a legit product getting paid for that is completely understood, the problem and the thing that angers us is when you use your influence over them to sell them something that may not only not help them and rip them off, but end up hurting them in the long run.  Lots of ppl look for easy, gimmicky ways to achieve their goals and ripping them off is one thing, but imagine a kid that is putting his heart and soul into his training, buying a squatflex because a "coach" he trusted recommended it to him, then getting hurt or wasting his valuable time in the process.  Athletes time to improve is limited, by the time they figure out that something they were doing is complete non sesne it may be too late.  They never get that time back. 
Relax.

Jacob Hiller

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Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
« Reply #28 on: December 16, 2010, 04:11:05 pm »
0
Lancests - Thanks man...

I see where you guys are coming from, I just see the usefulness of it in a very specific way.

But the thing is I'm not trying to pull kids out of the gym to use Squat Flex...

It's for a very specific crowd.

I consider almost a "niche" product for training at home period or for people pressed for time.

And for that I think it does provide an additional / superior training stimulus.

There may be someone, but EVERYONE I have talked to who bought Squat Flex is either

1. Pressed for time, and looking to do something at home.
 or
2. For whatever reason is going to train at home.


For these people I could just give them body weight work, or even some cool banded body weight exercises I made.

I could encourage them to get some at home equipment or to make time....

But in the end many of these people want to do it at home... and for that Squat Flex has it's use.



In the end I think they way and purpose of my promotion is different.

I didn't promote it as the "end all be all" like some others did.

I could see if a marketer was promoting that way how it would be misleading or taking advantage...



Maybe you don't see what I'm saying as being different...






LanceSTS

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Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
« Reply #29 on: December 16, 2010, 04:38:49 pm »
0
 I understand what youre saying man and youre definitely not promoting it in the same way as others have been, I just still cant get with the notion that you HONESTLY believe that the squatflex is a better option than something like buying a set of adjustable dumbells at wal mart and creating a progressive resistance program for them.  

  Lets say that jumpusa was giving the same EXACT incentives, whatever it is that they are giving, to either promote the squatflex, or an adjustable dumbell set.   You as a coach choose which one you HONESTLY believe will lend better results for an athlete in the long run.  Note that the price to the customer is still the same, squatflex ~300$, dumbells ~75$.  Which one would you reccomend?

  With the dumbells you can do, walking lunges, reverse lunges, squats, front squats, deadlifts, romanian deadlifts, jump squats, swings, snatches, presses of all kinds, push jerks, toe raises, shoulder raises in all directions, bent rows, upright rows, curls, tricep extensions, pull overs, weighted abdominal work, etc.

With the squatflex you can do hack squats, deadlifts, shoulder raises, rows, and .....

But either way man, I'm not bashing your opinion on it if you HONESTLY believe that it has a use for some people to buy, I just know that there are much safer, cheaper, and more effective options for someone who wants to train at home and would hate to see someone who is really dedicated be mislead by something they believed in due to it being promoted for reasons other than it being a useful training method.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2010, 04:40:29 pm by LanceSTS »
Relax.