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Members Area => CALL EM OUT => Topic started by: adarqui on November 24, 2010, 01:39:29 pm

Title: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on November 24, 2010, 01:39:29 pm
LUKE LOWERY
jacob hiller
alex maroko
adam linkenauger
Azur/Flying101 <-- not a coach but can reach the masses.


please give me more names, this list is pretty much the list that shuns you for life.

pc
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Raptor on November 24, 2010, 02:17:25 pm
I've never actually seen Puke doing squatflex ads... would someone be nice enough to show me? I thought squats were bad by the way...
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: LBSS on November 24, 2010, 03:09:59 pm
As coach of myself, I fully support squatflex* and all associated products and ideas.


*What is squatflex?
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Raptor on November 24, 2010, 03:23:05 pm
As coach of myself, I fully support squatflex* and all associated products and ideas.


*What is squatflex?

I think it's the opposite of squatextend.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: LBSS on November 24, 2010, 04:25:44 pm
As coach of myself, I fully support squatflex* and all associated products and ideas.


*What is squatflex?

I think it's the opposite of squatextend.

lol'd in real life.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: JackW on November 24, 2010, 05:35:25 pm
I've never actually seen Puke doing squatflex ads... would someone be nice enough to show me? I thought squats were bad by the way...

In TVP 3.0 he discusses actually being the inventor of squat flex.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Cloud3205 on November 25, 2010, 01:08:51 am
I wasn't going to comment on this at all, but I have to say that I am disappointed with Linkenauger and Hiller's association with Alex Maroko and the squatflex.  It really makes me doubt their intentions as coaches.  Is their number one concern helping athletes progress, or is it to make money at any cost?

Simply put, Maroko is not an athlete.  Instead of publishing the Truth About Quickness, he should have first published the truth about his own numbers.  He had a public training log which was up back in 2008, and after 2 years of training the man had a 23" standing vertical jump.  His other numbers were abysmal.  Now, I'm not saying that every coach has to be the highest jumping, fastest sprinting athlete in the world to be effective, but why would anyone trust someone who has not shown that he can produce results?  The only thing I see Maroko produce are lengthy hyped up videos. 

Hiller and Linkenauger said you can integrate Marko's program into their training programs (e.g. jump manual and vertfreak, respectively).  My question is, why wouldn't this information be put into their programs already, or why isn't this information updated in future issues?  They are really trusting 23" vertical jumping Maroko for quickness drills?  Even if they are not experts in the quickness area (which it seems like they would be), trust Maroko for anything is a mistake.

Finally, I have read up on the squatflex and do not believe that it is safe, affordable, or more effective than any other method.  Using chains or bands seem like a much more scientific and proven solution.  Chains and bands are used by elite lifters, the squatflex is not.  It seems like these products are being promoted so the coaches can receive some kind of kickback.  Would Linkenauger or Hiller go as far as to say that the squatflex is superior to chain and band methods and all other forms of training?  I am beginning to wonder...

I think Hiller and Linkenauger have solid training programs and are knowledgeable about their sport.  However, when they promote garbage it has made me question their character and intentions.

I will not comment on Luke Lowery because he is such an obvious fraud that he does not deserve a full discussion.  I would expect more from Linkenauger and Hiller, though.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on November 25, 2010, 01:52:40 am
I wasn't going to comment on this at all, but I have to say that I am disappointed with Linkenauger and Hiller's association with Alex Maroko and the squatflex.  It really makes me doubt their intentions as coaches.  Is their number one concern helping athletes progress, or is it to make money at any cost?

i'm baffled as to why hiller would feel the need to team up with maroko/jumpusa, i mean, forgive me if i'm wrong, but didn't he already bank hard before teaming up with maroko & co? Doesn't he actually make the most money out of everyone listed.. why the hell would he feel the need to team up with maroko/jumpusa is what I want to know.. IMO, If I were hiller (which i'm not, i'm broke), I would just put that extra effort spent teaming up with scammers into improving the jump manual and making future modifications etc, so that it is a better product, month after month, year after year.. From what it looks like, he already rapes the industry on vert training.


Quote
Simply put, Maroko is not an athlete.  Instead of publishing the Truth About Quickness, he should have first published the truth about his own numbers.  He had a public training log which was up back in 2008, and after 2 years of training the man had a 23" standing vertical jump.  His other numbers were abysmal.  Now, I'm not saying that every coach has to be the highest jumping, fastest sprinting athlete in the world to be effective, but why would anyone trust someone who has not shown that he can produce results?  The only thing I see Maroko produce are lengthy hyped up videos.  

truth



Quote
Hiller and Linkenauger said you can integrate Marko's program into their training programs (e.g. jump manual and vertfreak, respectively).  My question is, why wouldn't this information be put into their programs already, or why isn't this information updated in future issues?  They are really trusting 23" vertical jumping Maroko for quickness drills?  Even if they are not experts in the quickness area (which it seems like they would be), trust Maroko for anything is a mistake.

great point... Apparently KellyB wrote TAQ though? That recently confused me, I thought that was alex maroko's program influenced by "kelly b's training over the years".. If it's maroko's program, then your point stands, if it's kelly B's program, then it has more of a foundation.. regardless, when he says those drills got him to speed freak and all that stuff, they didn't, so incorporating programming (TAQ) into your product (jump manual) would be based on a bed of lies.


Quote
Finally, I have read up on the squatflex and do not believe that it is safe, affordable, or more effective than any other method.  Using chains or bands seem like a much more scientific and proven solution.  Chains and bands are used by elite lifters, the squatflex is not.  It seems like these products are being promoted so the coaches can receive some kind of kickback.  Would Linkenauger or Hiller go as far as to say that the squatflex is superior to chain and band methods and all other forms of training?  I am beginning to wonder...

Hiller has said "band training is more beneficial than dead weight training", he claims studies etc, but, in reality, band training is not any more effective than regular free weight training. It would be nice if he posted those studies here. The most solid routines are always the most basic, and pretty much none of those use bands/chains.. Bands/chains are a big fad, though they do provide a nice stimulus, but maximally accelerating through the bar which consists of "dead weight" will give you the same effect, and you should be doing that already.. So i'm not on board with the whole "bands are superior approach", because regardless, what is most important in athletic movements is how much force you can create initially, "not at the top".. by the time you get towards the top of your jump, the majority of the force you provided earlier on during the eccentric phase & the switching from eccentric to concentric, is what will impact the jump the most.. This is where very high forces are created and elastic energy is stored in the tendons, priming the concentric phase of the jump.. the act of triple extending all the way through the toes is not targeted by the squat flex, the squat flex doesn't overload the "bottom" of the movement which is more important than overloading the top.

The bottom of the movement can be ATG squat, parallel squat, of half squat depth.. squatflex loses a ton of tension towards those depths.

Squatflex is going to focus more on improving concentric strength, what it does not improve are things very key to performance:
- Doesn't improve ECCENTRIC RFD as much as a barbell movement
- Doesn't Improve strength in the weaker ranges of movement (deeper)
- Over-improves the top of the movement substantially compared to the bottom, which technically should effect the quad to hamstring strength ratio, which we all know gets dangerous if the ratio grows
- Band tension is limited to grip
- The body is in a round-back hack squat position for most everyone who uses it, placing more emphasis on incorrect motor patterns, you're not going to get a hip dominant lift with squat flex, it's going to be knee dominant + low back dominant.
- Focuses more on low back and quad, less emphasis on glutes
- Is limited in the amount of exercises you can perform with it, get in a gym.


Furthermore, inexperienced athletes shouldn't be played with intense band tension, which is what squatflex does -> introduces inexperienced, underdeveloped, and quick-result mindset athletes to a mindset of heavy band tension on a device that leads to lower back rounded hack squats. Not a good combo. So marketing squatflex to young kids is a travesty, they should be sticking to the basics and learning what REAL performance training is all about.


peace!



Quote
I think Hiller and Linkenauger have solid training programs and are knowledgeable about their sport.  However, when they promote garbage it has made me question their character and intentions.

I will not comment on Luke Lowery because he is such an obvious fraud that he does not deserve mention.  I would expect more from Linkenauger and Hiller, though.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Cloud3205 on November 25, 2010, 02:04:27 am
Hey Andrew,

I wasn't trying to claim that band training is necessarily superior to all other forms of training, what I was saying is that it has some credible people backing it up.  Lance has an article on this forum devoted to accommodation resistance for vertical jump and speed training.  Westside Barbell started using bands and chains years ago.  My point is that some great athletes use bands and chains but it's not like the Squatflex is used by the best ahtletes in the world.

I also agree with your point that inexperienced athletes shouldn't be using accommodating resistance.  Chuck Vogelpohl said that band training for inexperienced athletes is dangerous in his WSB video.

The convenience argument about the squatflex makes no sense to me because there is a gym almost anywhere in America.  This may be an issue if you lived in any of the following locations:
 
MEXICO
ROMANIA
QUEBEC
BELGIUM
AFRICA

Let's just hope Squatflex can be shipped there.

Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on November 25, 2010, 02:13:29 am
Hey Andrew,

I wasn't trying to claim that band training is necessarily superior to all other forms of training, what I was saying is that it has some credible people backing it up.  Lance has an article on this forum devoted to accommodation resistance for vertical jump and speed training.  Westside Barbell started using bands and chains years ago.  My point is that some great athletes use bands and chains but it's not like the Squatflex is used by the best ahtletes in the world.

Right I was just going off on a rant.. Bands/chains can be very beneficial, but athletes who focus on maximally accelerating the bar get pretty much the same effect on the concentric portion of the lift.. the increased acceleration of the bar downward using bands is a very intense stimulus, this can be achieved by focusing on speed during the eccentric phase of the squat, but that can be risky depending on your experience level.. It's definitely safer with bands if you control the negative, than trying to divebomb with no bands. Regardless, the most important phase of any lift is the switching from eccentric to concentric, this need to be a primary focus of ones training. Regardless of how fast you go down (I prefer controlled, moderate speed, no dive bombing), the transition needs to be as explosive as possible with maximal acceleration towards the top.

/end tangent :)

peace


Quote
I also agree with your point that inexperienced athletes shouldn't be using accommodating resistance.  Chuck Vogelpohl said that band training for inexperienced athletes is dangerous in his WSB video.

The vast majority of the "athletes" it is being marketed to, are teens, 14-16 years old, that's irresponsible imo.

Hiller enjoys band training and prefers it, but the same people who he probably learned it from, would not advocate loading up considerable band tensions on a squat or even worse, on a squat flex. Guaranteed.

pc



Quote
The convenience argument about the squatflex makes no sense to me because there is a gym almost anywhere in America.  This may be an issue if you lived in any of the following locations:
 
MEXICO
ROMANIA
QUEBEC
BELGIUM
AFRICA

Let's just hope Squatflex can be shipped there.


Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Ice-O on November 25, 2010, 02:37:59 am
Not Hiller man  :-\
The dude is just a cool dude but I did LMAO'd when you put "sad" on his youtube video promoting da flex
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Raptor on November 25, 2010, 08:28:06 am
It's funny how you guys talk in a serious manner about all these people, I would give them a fart in the face if I were you (although on a second thought...).

I mean, once a guy proves he's scamming, it's "bye bye" from me for pretty much forever. Plus that the videos they make are so fake, they don't believe in what they say THEMSELVES, probably because they do have some background and know they're bullshitting so it's limited to each person's ability to play theatre.

Disgusting. I'd rather play with that elephant dildo.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Zetz on November 25, 2010, 12:58:48 pm
Dude, I was born in Mexico. I still visit every year. Anyone with a half decent desire to get somewhere in life will have the means necessary to get to a good gym. Where I'm from they were all over downtown.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: zgin on November 25, 2010, 01:22:09 pm
Dude, I was born in Mexico. I still visit every year. Anyone with a half decent desire to get somewhere in life will have the means necessary to get to a good gym. Where I'm from they were all over downtown.

you missed the joke zetz. those places are the only places that squatflex doesnt ship to.   
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Zetz on November 25, 2010, 02:27:30 pm
Ah, I see. I'll have to pay more attention to earlier replies before posting.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Raptor on November 25, 2010, 04:28:52 pm
So Zetz and I are in the same boat? Is squatflex shipped to boats?
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: LanceSTS on November 25, 2010, 04:47:21 pm
Hey Andrew,

I wasn't trying to claim that band training is necessarily superior to all other forms of training, what I was saying is that it has some credible people backing it up.  Lance has an article on this forum devoted to accommodation resistance for vertical jump and speed training.  Westside Barbell started using bands and chains years ago.  My point is that some great athletes use bands and chains but it's not like the Squatflex is used by the best ahtletes in the world.

I also agree with your point that inexperienced athletes shouldn't be using accommodating resistance.  Chuck Vogelpohl said that band training for inexperienced athletes is dangerous in his WSB video.

The convenience argument about the squatflex makes no sense to me because there is a gym almost anywhere in America.  This may be an issue if you lived in any of the following locations:
 
MEXICO
ROMANIA
QUEBEC
BELGIUM
AFRICA

Let's just hope Squatflex can be shipped there.



Right, bands ADDED to FREEWEIGHT can be very beneficial, they provide a method of accomdating resistance and accelerate the eccentric by providing kinetic energy on the decent.  Louie and I both would laugh very hard at the idea of using only band tension as the sole means of resistance.  Bands will make up a very small percentage of the of the total load on the bar in most instances.   Trying to market a piece of trash product like the squatflex based off the band concept is very silly, they are simply reaching for validation of their trash.   
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: zgin on November 25, 2010, 05:38:13 pm
So Zetz and I are in the same boat? Is squatflex shipped to boats?

squat flex only ships to boats docked in coastal kansas.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Raptor on November 26, 2010, 01:36:04 am
I thought it's being made on a boat!
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: XxZxX on November 26, 2010, 11:10:43 pm
Can't ship to Romania cause Dracula doesn't want any competition in his blood sucking businesses.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Raptor on November 27, 2010, 05:46:50 am
I agree, but what about Mexico? Oh wait, that's where USA threw out it's swine flu virus to test it on people.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: TheSituation on November 27, 2010, 08:49:17 pm
I agree, but what about Mexico? Oh wait, that's where USA threw out it's swine flu virus to test it on people.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3057/2367515373_515ff7a325.jpg)
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on November 28, 2010, 01:21:32 am
someone url'd me this:


lol
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Raptor on November 28, 2010, 05:50:00 am
So you don't have anything to do with that "jumpusascam" user that has been created on 27th November 2010, right? ;D
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 16, 2010, 11:01:05 am
Just wanted a chance to represent myself...

I know you guys hate Squat Flex, and many of the reasons agree with.

However, after trying the equipment AND considering the situation of most of it's users, I still hold that Squat Flex has value.

Before you flame me out or cuss me out, at least hear me out.  I don't think I should be shunned for life ;)  Just for my honest opinion of the SF.

If you can convince me otherwise I'll agree with you, but I don't think my point of view is understood here.

When I reviewed Squat Flex I posted a video about the reasons why.. most SF haters didn't watch it.. because they feel they already know the the facts... but...

Here's what I hear Squat Flex haters saying...

1. Most of you disagree with marketing tactics used by Jump USA.
ME - I don't like the over hyped marketing either.. I agree.   And if people we're lying about their testimonials.. that's not cool and I don't like that either.

2. Squat Flex is the same as a barbell hack squat.
ME - I disagree with this, and I think the resistance curve is different as well as the eccentric load, etc.. More on this below.

3. Squat Flex is overpriced.
ME - i don't know the JUSA's production cost, but price is is subjective.  Personally I think it's a bit high.  But price is subjective AND price is something to be determined individually.  People can make that decision.

4. It's better to get a gym membership.
ME - The VAST majority of everyone who bought Squat Flex from on my promotion, doesn't have access to great facilities, transportation, or simply prefers to train at home.

I made this clear in my video... and also clear that heavy band resistance isn't unique to Squat Flex, and if you have convenient regular access to top notch facilities then Squat Flex offers little more benefit then simply an easy at home workout.

5. But a barbell and weights is cheaper.
ME - From my comparison, buying a barbell and weights is MUCH more expensive... and doens't offer any band resistance.  Also, it's not near as convenient.  Many people buy the Squat Flex for convenience alone... them doing the Squat Flex and at home is their most convenient workout.

6. Squat Flex is dangerous:
ME - When taught properly I think it's just as safe or more safe than a Squat.  I know many disagree but failing on a back squat is scary compared to missing a Squat Flex lift.

7. There is ONLY one exercise.
ME - I list at least 10 that can be done with the Squat Flex that I think are highly affective.

8. It only trains the top portion of the lift.
ME - I think this is inherently the biggest problem with doing pure band weight.

The resistance curve doesn't match the users strength curve in an optimal manner.

However, I think using isometric holds with greater tension at the lower position, dont body weight exercises at home (pistol, banded pistol, bulgarian split squat/jumps/ etc..) supplements the weaknesses here.

To simplify - Squat flex + Squat Flex Isometrics + body weight > (is better than) body weight exercises at home.

That's why I gave the extra body weight stuff, and additional exercises away with it.  Because I feel it needs them to work well.

Again.. 90% est are doing this at home without any equipment and that's just the facts of it.

---

We went over all this in my videos...

I made the review becuase I had users already who used and liked the Squat Flex, and who were asking me about it.  I had about 100 requests to review or test the machine.  Again almost all of these came from people who were training at home with our body weight exercises.

Is the Squat Flex the best thing ever?

I never claimed that, and just tried to present the facts.

Does the Squat Flex provide people who ONLY train from home a supplemental exercise to build sport specific jumping power?

I still believe it does.

It's actually a fun little home workout, that can place massive tension on the vertical jumping prime movers. IMO

... Most of the arguments against the Squat Flex I end up agreeing with OR they don't hit home.

Many are going to reply saying... BUT! They should just get access to a gym and get some bands for accommodating resistance.  I teach this all the time in our coaching sessions, but it doesn't apply to most people who bought Squat Flex.

Anyways maybe I will get called names, or get shunned for life, but the above is just my opinion.

By all means, I'm open to being wrong here.  But most of the Squat Flex haters didn't watch my videos or used one of the above complaints.

Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 16, 2010, 01:53:30 pm
I'd be glad to discuss my views on the above.. it's clear that man of you will disagree.

The "problem" is that generalizing that's done on a person's competency and character if you happen to disagree on this point.

I have seen Adam L., Eric Cressey, myself, and others to name a few who have been called out for being associated with a program that is evidentally the "mark of the devil."  I have a lot of respect for those guys, maybe we disagree on a few finer points of "training doctrine" but it certainly doesn't disqualify their positive contributions to the body of training knowledge.

I can see you flaming on pure marketers...

But I honestly don't think my position is that crazy... but the hate you guys have for the marketers is passed off into anyone who has ANY positive association with Squat Flex or any other product that has been been demonized.

To be honest, if I met you guys outside of this forum or the WWW I'm quite sure we'd have a lot to talk about, and if Squat Flex or any other training matter came up I'm sure it wouldn't "turn sour" all of a sudden if we disagreed on whether it was useful. 

If you disagree with me.. no problem, if you want to discuss in a friendly/open way, I'm always down.

Jack W. for example has always been not only a trainer I respect and follow, and someone who was amenable to open debate.  We haven't agreed on everything, but Jack doesn't call me the devil, and I surely don't respect him any less.  But I always enjoy to hear what he has to say and to bounce ideas with him...

Anyways, I'd hope that a good open even passionate debate is possible without so much demonizing or mud slinging... unless we're really talking about someone with only bad or ill intentions.

Just saying..


Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: LBSS on December 16, 2010, 02:07:52 pm
LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, I PRESENT TO YOU...THE DEVIL!!!!!!!!!!

 :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang:

(http://www.newprofession.biz/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/authorj.jpg)
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: LanceSTS on December 16, 2010, 03:38:08 pm
 Nobody will flame you for coming on here and discussing your position on the squatflex, if you are really open minded about this issue then that is respectable.  Fwiw, I have tried to see the upside to it but when it all comes down to the wire the only real reason I can see for someone who understands performance training to reccomend it is money, plain and simple.  All these videos/emails/promotions are all coming out at the same time, that alone kind of cues you in on the fact that jump usa is giving some incentives (money, mailing lists, co promotion of products, etc.) to get their product out and sell lots of them.  Its getting near Christmas time and marketers know that kids can influence their parents to buy things for them.  If your video and promotion would have randomly came out at another time because you honestly believed that the squatflex was a good piece of equipment, that would be totally different. 

  The price of that thing is insane for what it is, a kid could easily get a set of adjustable dumbells and do things like walking lunges, step ups, snatches, etc. (and 10,000 other exercises) that would benefit them alot more than doing deadlifts and hack squats on the squatflex and a WHOLE lot less money.  But jumpusa is not paying people to promote dumbells or things that have actually helped athletes, theyre paying them to promote equipment that they sell and made to make a killer profit on.  I strongly believe in using bands with free weights when the situation calls for it, but the bands on the squatflex are not some revolutionary idea jumpusa came up with, they use bands because the shipping on free weights would be unreasonable and they couldnt make nearly the profit they do by throwing together a stick and platform with some cheap bands as the sole means of resistance.

 I agree with what you are saying about needing to lift explosively, the problem with that is how the hell is a kid gonna lift explosively on that thing?  There is a video earlier in this thread of a kid who has already hurt his back doing the hack squats with a controlled tempo, if he were attempting to lift explosively his form would be even worse and he would likely be injured to the point of not being able to train for a while. 

Alot the guys (and you too) who are marketing that thing have already made alot of money off selling these same impressionable kids things online which is fine and dandy, if you have a legit product getting paid for that is completely understood, the problem and the thing that angers us is when you use your influence over them to sell them something that may not only not help them and rip them off, but end up hurting them in the long run.  Lots of ppl look for easy, gimmicky ways to achieve their goals and ripping them off is one thing, but imagine a kid that is putting his heart and soul into his training, buying a squatflex because a "coach" he trusted recommended it to him, then getting hurt or wasting his valuable time in the process.  Athletes time to improve is limited, by the time they figure out that something they were doing is complete non sesne it may be too late.  They never get that time back. 
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 16, 2010, 04:11:05 pm
Lancests - Thanks man...

I see where you guys are coming from, I just see the usefulness of it in a very specific way.

But the thing is I'm not trying to pull kids out of the gym to use Squat Flex...

It's for a very specific crowd.

I consider almost a "niche" product for training at home period or for people pressed for time.

And for that I think it does provide an additional / superior training stimulus.

There may be someone, but EVERYONE I have talked to who bought Squat Flex is either

1. Pressed for time, and looking to do something at home.
 or
2. For whatever reason is going to train at home.


For these people I could just give them body weight work, or even some cool banded body weight exercises I made.

I could encourage them to get some at home equipment or to make time....

But in the end many of these people want to do it at home... and for that Squat Flex has it's use.



In the end I think they way and purpose of my promotion is different.

I didn't promote it as the "end all be all" like some others did.

I could see if a marketer was promoting that way how it would be misleading or taking advantage...



Maybe you don't see what I'm saying as being different...





Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: LanceSTS on December 16, 2010, 04:38:49 pm
 I understand what youre saying man and youre definitely not promoting it in the same way as others have been, I just still cant get with the notion that you HONESTLY believe that the squatflex is a better option than something like buying a set of adjustable dumbells at wal mart and creating a progressive resistance program for them.  

  Lets say that jumpusa was giving the same EXACT incentives, whatever it is that they are giving, to either promote the squatflex, or an adjustable dumbell set.   You as a coach choose which one you HONESTLY believe will lend better results for an athlete in the long run.  Note that the price to the customer is still the same, squatflex ~300$, dumbells ~75$.  Which one would you reccomend?

  With the dumbells you can do, walking lunges, reverse lunges, squats, front squats, deadlifts, romanian deadlifts, jump squats, swings, snatches, presses of all kinds, push jerks, toe raises, shoulder raises in all directions, bent rows, upright rows, curls, tricep extensions, pull overs, weighted abdominal work, etc.

With the squatflex you can do hack squats, deadlifts, shoulder raises, rows, and .....

But either way man, I'm not bashing your opinion on it if you HONESTLY believe that it has a use for some people to buy, I just know that there are much safer, cheaper, and more effective options for someone who wants to train at home and would hate to see someone who is really dedicated be mislead by something they believed in due to it being promoted for reasons other than it being a useful training method.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on December 16, 2010, 05:03:11 pm
welcome man, glad you're on here to discuss things because youtube/facebook is just a bad medium for convo, IMO.


Just wanted a chance to represent myself...

Nice, Adam Linkenauger, for example, promoted squatflex and will not defend himself, but he's said it is a piece of junk in the past, so he can't really defend himself.


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I know you guys hate Squat Flex, and many of the reasons agree with.

adarq.org officially hates squatflex :)




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However, after trying the equipment AND considering the situation of most of it's users, I still hold that Squat Flex has value.

What is the situation of most of it's users? We've had a discussion about this in private, but my stance still holds true, for the vast majority of squatflex users, it is YOUNG GULLIBLE athletes looking for quick fixes. Squatflex looks "easier" than a barbell, and is promoted as such, that is why there is a flock of young aspiring athletes who flock to jumpusa/squatflex. Jumpusa provides gimmicks, not solid effective training methodologies.

Those who truly lack a gym can make use of plenty of other methods before turning to squatflex, BUT, those who truly lack access to a gym/weights are very rare. Even in the poorest countries, their are gyms with barbells and plates.



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Before you flame me out or cuss me out, at least hear me out.  I don't think I should be shunned for life ;)  Just for my honest opinion of the SF.

We won't flame you, props for coming on here to discuss your opinion.




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If you can convince me otherwise I'll agree with you, but I don't think my point of view is understood here.

When I reviewed Squat Flex I posted a video about the reasons why.. most SF haters didn't watch it.. because they feel they already know the the facts... but...

Here's what I hear Squat Flex haters saying...

1. Most of you disagree with marketing tactics used by Jump USA.
ME - I don't like the over hyped marketing either.. I agree.   And if people we're lying about their testimonials.. that's not cool and I don't like that either.

Jumpusa is a deception machine, this is well known, that in itself ruins all of their credibility. The most glaring case of this is how they got B.A., SLAM, and Oh-no to promote squatflex as if it helped them with their first dunk. That was down right grimey and is just one example of Jumpusa using bullshit to sell it's bullshit. Once integrity is gone, there are no legs to stand on, thus is jumpusa.


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2. Squat Flex is the same as a barbell hack squat.
ME - I disagree with this, and I think the resistance curve is different as well as the eccentric load, etc.. More on this below.

Squatflex will not overload the weakest joint angles, it is impossible. The only way to overload the weakest joint angles, would be to use a set resistance PLUS bands. A set resistance (such as a barbell + plates), could be used to overload the bottom, then bands/chains are used to accomodate the strength curve. You simple cannot overload the bottom in squatflex, if you did, the band tension itself would become too great, as it would rapidly exceed max strength levels on the way up.. Squatflex is like using 5 green's on a 45 lb bar, it makes no sense. What makes sense, is 1-2 greens on a 225 lb bar, for example. This is what Elitefts, the biggest proponent of band/chain training in the industry currently, would tell us.

There has to be SIGNIFICANT tension at the bottom.. Plus squatflex is limited by grip, and that alone weakens a "pure hip driven movement", such as in a barbell squat. I've yet to see a squatflex rep performed that would benefit an athletic movement, every rep i've seen has way too much "back" in the lift.



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3. Squat Flex is overpriced.
ME - i don't know the JUSA's production cost, but price is is subjective.  Personally I think it's a bit high.  But price is subjective AND price is something to be determined individually.  People can make that decision.

Price isn't subjective though, I could make a squatflex for < $30. ;)




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4. It's better to get a gym membership.
ME - The VAST majority of everyone who bought Squat Flex from on my promotion, doesn't have access to great facilities, transportation, or simply prefers to train at home.

There is a word for those people, FOR THE MOST PART, lazy.. Not trying to insult your clientele, but most every single person who complains about gym access or prefers to train at home, is lazy. period. People in piss poor countries walk 10+ miles to the gym to go oly lift, etc. There's gyms in every corner of this earth, seriously. There is video of people in parts of war-torn africa lifting weights and getting diesel.

If you prefer to train at home, fine, get a barbell and weight plates. Here's a major advantage to having a barbell and weight plates, over squatflex:
- front squat
- cleans/snatches
- push press, standing overhead press, floor press
- barbell curl
- barbell row
- landmine twist, landmine press
- windshield wipers
- back squat
- deadlift
- zercher squat
- clean pulls, snatch pulls
- jump squat
- calf raises

etc






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I made this clear in my video... and also clear that heavy band resistance isn't unique to Squat Flex, and if you have convenient regular access to top notch facilities then Squat Flex offers little more benefit then simply an easy at home workout.

5. But a barbell and weights is cheaper.
ME - From my comparison, buying a barbell and weights is MUCH more expensive... and doens't offer any band resistance.  Also, it's not near as convenient.  Many people buy the Squat Flex for convenience alone... them doing the Squat Flex and at home is their most convenient workout.

"convenience" negates ones athlete status.

I bought my 300 lb weight set from sports authority for $150, i don't know if they still have it, but shopping around on the net i'm sure you could find something very similar, this came up on basically the first search:

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=300+lb+weight+set+price&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=869828549811454873&ei=0ocKTZuVOM6s8AbJ9bGfAQ&sa=X&oi=product_catalog_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CD8Q8wIwAw#

$250 for a 300 lb weight set, with olympic bar.. I know they go for much cheaper than that though, like I said, mine was $150.

The type of person who buys squatflex varies greatly form the type of person who buys a barbell set, no joke. One is looking for quick results, the other is looking to put on some serious strength - all over. It's the same comparison as someone who buys adenotrex vs someone who buys whey protein. People are buying $300 APL's to put on 1-2" on their vert (which doesn't even happen), when they could be getting under a god damn bar for cheaper :)

If you buy a barbell set used, it can be extremely cheap. Cages and half racks go for very cheap also. I got my powertec for $350 online, searched all over until i found it for mad-cheap.

So I ended up spending ~$500 for a powertec rack and a 300 lb barbell set... Compare that SAME price to a $497 squatflex, and I think most anyone would agree that ____________________ hehe




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6. Squat Flex is dangerous:
ME - When taught properly I think it's just as safe or more safe than a Squat.  I know many disagree but failing on a back squat is scary compared to missing a Squat Flex lift.

Taught properly? All i've seen are round backed hack squats? Regardless, any type of training can be dangerous, but squatting is very safe when done with proper form, even if you lack a cage. But to really push yourself on squat you generally need a cage, though oly lifters have no problem squatting without a cage, if you know how to dump a bar it's easy. Squatflex users all have one thing in common, round backed hack squats.. Id rather lift maximally on a squat with good form than roundback a banded hack squat on some silly device..

We can't forget that most ALL people buying squatflex are people who play basketball, and these types of people have long legs, short torsos, for the most part.. this has them put in a very awkward position when using the squatflex, whether they are squatflex-deadlifting or squatflex-hack-squatting, i've yet to see someone perform it with good form using considerable band tension.





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7. There is ONLY one exercise.
ME - I list at least 10 that can be done with the Squat Flex that I think are highly affective.

Can you list those? I watched the vid a few nights ago and don't remember them actually being listed.. I remember you saying there's a bonus that comes with it that shows extra exercises.





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8. It only trains the top portion of the lift.
ME - I think this is inherently the biggest problem with doing pure band weight.

The resistance curve doesn't match the users strength curve in an optimal manner.

However, I think using isometric holds with greater tension at the lower position, dont body weight exercises at home (pistol, banded pistol, bulgarian split squat/jumps/ etc..) supplements the weaknesses here.

Yielding or overcoming isometrics with squatflex could possibly be beneficial, but grip is a limiting factor. I agree that isometric holds/overcoming isos with more band tension to overload the bottom would probably be pretty effective, but for some 14-17 year old high school kid to jump right into high intensity yielding/overcoming isos at the bottom is very dangerous in my opinion. In order to effectively and safely utilize yielding/overcoming isos on a squatflex, at the bottom, using large band tension, you would have to be very experienced and most importantly, KNOW HOW TO BREATHE under considerable tension. If you don't know how to breathe, which would be someone who lacks experience with barbell/resistance training, then you open yourself up to an increased risk of injury, to the lower back, groin, and abdominal areas.

So if you are an experienced lifter, then yes I think yielding/overcoming isos at the bottom could be effective, given that grip strength doesn't limit you, which would probably be the case.




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To simplify - Squat flex + Squat Flex Isometrics + body weight > (is better than) body weight exercises at home.

Again that depends, I agree that squatflex provides overload, but, it's not better for inexperienced athletes to use squatflex, it is in fact, more dangerous. Athletes with very little experience under tension should be performing traditional barbell/dumbell exercises WITHOUT accommodating resistance. A.R. doesn't even come close to being introduced in a beginner's program, it is so risky and unneccesessarryyyy (i hate spelling that word) that it is unfathomable in all honesty.

For experienced athletes, then yes, squatflex can provide some kind of overload which can yield gains in strength and small amounts of hypertrophy, but, barbell lifting would be far more effective than squatflex+squatflex isos in those departments.




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That's why I gave the extra body weight stuff, and additional exercises away with it.  Because I feel it needs them to work well.

Again.. 90% est are doing this at home without any equipment and that's just the facts of it.

---

We went over all this in my videos...

I made the review becuase I had users already who used and liked the Squat Flex, and who were asking me about it.  I had about 100 requests to review or test the machine.  Again almost all of these came from people who were training at home with our body weight exercises.

Is the Squat Flex the best thing ever?

I never claimed that, and just tried to present the facts.

Does the Squat Flex provide people who ONLY train from home a supplemental exercise to build sport specific jumping power?

I still believe it does.

It's actually a fun little home workout, that can place massive tension on the vertical jumping prime movers. IMO

... Most of the arguments against the Squat Flex I end up agreeing with OR they don't hit home.

Many are going to reply saying... BUT! They should just get access to a gym and get some bands for accommodating resistance.  I teach this all the time in our coaching sessions, but it doesn't apply to most people who bought Squat Flex.

I say they should get access to a gym or buy a barbell set, I don't think any beginner should go anywhere near bands unless its shoulder prehab ;)




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Anyways maybe I will get called names, or get shunned for life, but the above is just my opinion.

By all means, I'm open to being wrong here.  But most of the Squat Flex haters didn't watch my videos or used one of the above complaints.

If jumpusa sends me a squatflex for free, I will test it out honestly, no bias, then I will set it on fire & sledge hammer it. Let's do
this ;d

Considering squatflex to improve athleticism is like buying a unicycle to train for the tour de france. Aint happenin`.

peace man
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 16, 2010, 05:13:51 pm
That's a good question....

To cheat.. I'd recommend both... (I'll answer straight up below)

Squat Flex you can overload a straight leg dead lift or standard dead lift to 500 + pounds super easily.

You can easily challenge yourself at extremely high  amounts of tension, basically with Squat Flex you can max out...

AND you can reap some of the benefits of band training.  To me that's pretty great.

----- again we're talking about people only training from home   ------

And I think we underestimate just how many of those people there are.... 

In my community alone there are literally thousands and thousands who simply want to train from home, and many of them have a small set of dumbbells.

Even close friends and family of mine, they just will not be "gym goers" for reasons I don't really get... I love the gym, the fraternity, the competition... the social aspect... I can't get enough of it.

But many people including family and friends of mine, just wont' go.. and their not "junkies" like me... but they were very interested in the idea of using the Squat Flex and the convenience aspect of it.

I also find that a great deal of these people are "small apartment" people.  They live in small quarters... they actually tell me this.

... anyways

To me Squat Flex is a great compliment to a small easy set of dumbbells that can be used in single leg work.

To me ...For the demographic it's best for.... and for jumping and maximal strength.. I'd rather have someone have the Squat Flex, and use a heavy back pack, or the bands, or other means of external resistance for the one leg work.

For someone like you... I'd probably say the dumbells.. because I know you are going to put the work in to it.

But most people have a set of dumbbells (albeit not great) and are considering the Squat Flex as a compliment.

I also think it's important to understand these are not people like you...

You (and other here) are people who are going to get it done.  Highly dedicated, routine...

Many of the Squat Flex folks are just looking for ease and convenience, while still yielding some decent training results.

Before I even promoted it, I had people using it, and I worked with them personally to create a program with it and use it from home - and they enjoyed the work... and got decent results.


I think when you are looking at the Squat Flex (could be wrong) you are asking... Is this the best piece of equipment for vertical jump training?

But when I look at it.. I'm thinking... can this be a tool of some value for a certain demographic of my community.  To me the answer is easily yes...

Is it for everyone?  No, and I tell them so.

I even have some people who have access and ARE gym goers but like using it for quick workouts when they get busy.  An easy way to keep progress up.

Again I'm not saying SF is holy grail here.

But for the people who it IS a fit for... they really love it.

Me (when I'm actually home haven't been home in a year...) I go to the gym, but I like to hope on it and see if I can get to the next band level...  It's a fun challenge to overcome - and it friggin tough.

When I was experimenting with it...

At the time I got it, I was dead lifting about 485 lbs but I think I couldn't load the SF completely up.

I was home for about a month maybe 2, and supplemented with the SF just for giggles, and my VJ and DL went up, and I went up on how many bands I could do.  When I left the US I was up to 515 on deadlift.

Anyways... I don't think I see it the way you do... I also don't think I see it the way it is marketed (by others)...


What I would prefer to recommend is an elitefts.com band platform, a barbell, and start loading up on plates...  but now we're talking pricey.. and it's not going to going to work for peoples in home gym setup... (for most of these people).



Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 16, 2010, 05:31:23 pm
Adarq - Thanks for letting me come in.  After checking out your forum it's actually pretty active which is cool.  I like your slow mo calculator.. I use "MySpeed" for that which is pretty cool.

I still think we're just looking at it's uses differently.

I'm describing to you a demographic who will enjoy using the Squat Flex... and you are not in it.

But in my community alone there are thousands who fit in that category, and for them they love and benefit from using Squat Flex.

No matter what we say or think, these people are not going to be regular gym goers.  It's just not on their radar.  That group of people is larger then I once thought.  I interact with these folks all the time.

Some exercises I showed with Squat flex...

Straight leg DL, Romanian DL, isometric holds, front squat (requires longer bands), hack squat (don't really like it), shrugs, front raise, side / lateral raise, curl variations, bent over rows, up right rows, tricep extensions... 

I'm beginning to think that I see it as a tool for a specific use...

A use which you might agree with bit don't think is justified, or worth the money, OR of course.. just get a gym (which IMO is a mute point to this particular group).

I'm also beginning to think that I don't market this or see it in the same way some of the other marketers do...

Regardless, I'm stuck on the "shunned for life" list.

O well.. at least I don't get flamed, except for that guy who called me the devil.



Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 16, 2010, 05:34:18 pm
It just keeps coming back to "get in a gym" which by in large is just not the people this is a fit for.

I asked Jump USA about their own market, and they also get a strong majority of people who WANT to do everything from home.... and (in my case) these are people who don't have a garage or a yard or room (or budget) for building their own gym in house.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: BMully on December 16, 2010, 05:34:44 pm
LUKE LOWERY
jacob hiller
alex maroko
adam linkenauger


please give me more names, this list is pretty much the list that shuns you for life.

pc

I think hiller is brining up some good points. Why do you have to say that disagreeing with you means banished/shunned/hated?

could you change that last sentence??
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 16, 2010, 05:38:48 pm
"Those who truly lack a gym can make use of plenty of other methods before turning to squatflex, BUT, those who truly lack access to a gym/weights are very rare."

I disagree...

Again.. I think this is being very underestimated.

One of the top questions I get for The Jump Manual is... can I do this at home without weights.

I have TONS of people who I give body weight workouts to at home.  Is there a way to get them to a gym.. maybe.. but the fact is... for some reason, they WANT / WILL train at home.

I'm talking thousands of people in my small group, and millions outside of my group.

Workouts to do from home is probably in the top 10 of questions / requests I get.


Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: JackW on December 16, 2010, 06:00:47 pm
Hi Jacob

talk about walking into the lions den here at adarq.org mate! As always though, you have shown the patience and class I have come to know and respect from you. I just wanted to say kudos for that.

I still think Lance was onto it earlier with a set of adjustable dumbbells is the way to go for home trainers though. You can buy 2 x 40kg (88 pounds for you US folks) for much less than a squat flex and use them for  damn near everything. Sure you don't get the accommodating resistance, but there have been many, many athletes the world over who have made tremendous gains without accommodating resistance - and I say that as someone who uses bands of various types all the time.

Actually, it just occurred to me that if people were super duper keen to get the benefits of accommodating resistence they could buy some adjustable dumbells and a power jumper and still have money left in their pockets. And you can squat, deadlift, lunge AND do a whole bunch of jumping drills with that thing. Just saying.

Cheers

Jack

Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: LanceSTS on December 16, 2010, 06:04:18 pm
  If you really used it and felt that you had some significant gains then you are entitled to your opinion on it, it just makes me skeptical when I never heard or saw anything about this until the big promotion of it comes out around Christmas time with all of the other people promoting it too.  I also dont believe that "both" is a legitimate answer, obviously someone could buy a squat rack and barbell for that amount of money and wouldnt neccessarily NEED either one.  

  But if you really do believe in it and use it yourself with good gains in performance, why wait until theyre promoting it hard core to all of the sudden talk about it?  Maybe you have other videos or have reccomended it that I dont see?  The EXACT exercise that they made it for is not one you like, so whats more likely, this thing has tons of untapped potential that the designers overlooked, or people are reaching for ways to validate it as a useful piece of equipment?

  The group that is being marketed to is obviously not primarily older, more experienced athletes, its young impressionable ones that dont need half of the things its being said to do, they need progressive resistance with free weights and compound exercises.  If someone had been training for a while and needed a way to tie bands on a deadlift there are many many options besides spending 300$ on that thing.  There is just no justification in my mind for it and its obviously par for the course with their other products and promoted material, with false promises and hype.  

But like I said, if you truly believe in a product and are not promoting it simply for monetary gain regardless of wether it is legit or not then I dont think you should be hated for it, I just think that you may be overlooking some serious issues like injuries and false hope that come with something like that. We could take 2 16 yr old kids, train one with squatflex, one with dumbells (for less than half the money), and I  would bet the house the 2nd kid would get vastly superior results.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Cloud3205 on December 16, 2010, 06:10:25 pm
I just wanted to say I really respect everyone weighing in on this topic - Lance, Jacob, Andrew...I am not trying to be confrontational or anything, but I think that calling Jacob "The Devil" is way out of line and immature.  Jacob has been very helpful to me and is a knowledgeable trainer.  I also think his views on the SquatFlex are different from that of JumpUSA. 

I personally would not trust JumpUSA as far as I could throw them, but if Jacob says that there could be some benefits to the SquatFlex I would believe him.  Conversely, I believe what Lance says as well, namely that there are other methods of training and those methods are superior. 

The only points I want to make are:

1.  Jacob's knowledge of vertical jump training is vast and he has helped countless athletes improve their verticals.
2.  JumpUSA makes ridiculous claims and that Jacob does not assert the same exact claims.
3.  I fail to see how making childish comments, such as calling Jacob "the Devil" advances the discussion on this topic whatsoever.


Edit - I read Lance's comment about being skeptical about never hearing about Squatflex before and I think this is a legitimate concern.  Not that anyone cares what I think ^ ^
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 16, 2010, 06:18:34 pm
For general exercise the dumbells are versatile...

Lance's question was a very interesting hypothetical question, but I find most of these at home people already have some dumbbells, and Squat Flex addition is just a compliment to their at home setup.

To me the coolest part of Squat Flex is being able to max out on these compound lifts very conveniently... again mostly for people not going to hit a gym.

And I'm assuming Jack that you also get a considerable demographic who simply wants to train from home and / or without weights.

And as much as I like single leg lifts, with dumbbells, I find that people belly up to the Squat Flex easier then they do the one leg lifts.  It's just so easy.

Without single leg lifts the dumbbells are easy to max out.

Let me give another example... I have a kid who has money... so money wasn't the problem.  And he just wanted the easiest workout to continue building max strength - from home.

Is he going to use it and like it and benefit from it.. doing the SF and the at home single leg stuff...  yes.

In my opinion the debate we are carrying on here, is different from the original debate, and one worth considering for this particular demographic...

I'm not here to hype this thing up, up but I find that it has a use, especially for this particular group.

I see myself still recommending it to their situation.

It's not the focus of my program, or the revolution of jump training in and of itself.  But for for a certain situations it's a nice tool to continue to make progress... an for those people, that is value.




Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 16, 2010, 06:21:21 pm
Thanks Cloud...  appreciate that.

.. The Lions Den [Jack W. reference] ...

BTW - Jack people are much more reasonable then I had thought.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: JackW on December 16, 2010, 06:44:43 pm
Thanks Cloud...  appreciate that.

.. The Lions Den [Jack W. reference] ...

BTW - Jack people are much more reasonable then I had thought.

I think it comes down to honesty. A lot of the angrier posts relate to dishonest marketing tactics and hype. In your case you have promoted something that without a doubt has been the subject to that special JumpUSA marketing magic. This naturally raises peoples ire.

However you have expressed to me in the past, as well as here now that while you don't agree with the marketing you have an honest opinion that for certain people it can provide a solution. You won't ever convince everybody, and Lance does raise some good points about the timing of your Squat Flex promotion, but I give you the benefit of the doubt because you also expressed this same opinion to me about SF months ago.

Cheers

Jack

PS - While you are here can you post some pics of your wife in the 2sexy4u section. Ha ha.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 16, 2010, 07:01:28 pm
Lance said:

" If you really used it and felt that you had some significant gains then you are entitled to your opinion on it, it just makes me skeptical when I never heard or saw anything about this until the big promotion of it comes out around Christmas time with all of the other people promoting it too.  I also dont believe that "both" is a legitimate answer, obviously someone could buy a squat rack and barbell for that amount of money and wouldnt neccessarily NEED either one. "

I can respect that skepticism... my own gains on it aren't why I am promoting it.  Although I should have mentioned them, but was mostly caught up in the educational side of it.

"Both" is not a legitimate answer, but further down I thought I gave a more legitimate answer.

 "But if you really do believe in it and use it yourself with good gains in performance, why wait until theyre promoting it hard core to all of the sudden talk about it?  Maybe you have other videos or have reccomended it that I dont see?  The EXACT exercise that they made it for is not one you like, so whats more likely, this thing has tons of untapped potential that the designers overlooked, or people are reaching for ways to validate it as a useful piece of equipment?"

I wanted to promote it as soon as I tested it and liked it..

BUT, I also knew it was controversial and although i feel my reasons for promoting are legit, I felt that I would be demonized by this group.

I don't keep up with "them" and when they are "marketing it hardcore"  ...

They asked me if I wanted to offer it for the discounted price, and I thought it was time.

I also felt it would take considerable effort and time (which it did) becuase it would be a lot of education about the use of the thing.

LAnce said:

"The EXACT exercise that they made it for is not one you like, so whats more likely, this thing has tons of untapped potential that the designers overlooked, or people are reaching for ways to validate it as a useful piece of equipment?"

Again, I don't feel they market it well, and I feel that it has many uses they don't promote.  

Lance, don't take me wrong here, but for me to market it and not believe it had value, would be horrible for me.  Even if I made a few bucks or even thousands in the long run it would hurt me IMO.

I'm not a SF fanatic, but I think it has benefit for the home group I have been talking about which is a significant population in my community.

Most of them getting it are ADDING it to their little home dumbell set.

I believe.. give me a kid with dumbbells, and give me a kid with dumbbells and the Squat Flex... and we'll out perform the ugly with just the dumbbells.

Your hypothetical question was interesting, but it does represent the reality of the group I'm talking about.

I asked my support staff if one of the most asked questions was about doing the workout from home, and it was clearly a "top 10" concern.

Loads of people say... can I do this at home.. and many of those say.. all I have is a small dumbbell set.

If your questioning my sincerity or character... i can't do much more then give you my word.

But on a side note, if I am convinced that Squat Flex is not of value for that group, I would never promote it... no problem.

I almost didn't promote it anyways, and I believed it was of value... I knew there would be backlash, but I also knew that lots of people would actually use and benefit from SF.

To me it feels like you are determined to find a villain in me for thinking Squat Flex of some value, but to me it just doesn't seem that crazy.

I don't think you know me man... I give a lot of my time and self to the kids, athletes, parents, and coaches I work with.  It's my passion, it's my life... probably like it is for you.




Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 16, 2010, 07:06:29 pm
Jack - I agree... and it's true you knew my thoughts about Squat Flex long before I promoted.

But.. I really don't get the point about the "timing" of my launch...

Doing a review or promo about it has been "on the back burner" for a while... partly held at bay because I knew i'd have to do a lot of explaining and people would think I was "one of the "others"...

They contacted me and asked if I wanted to do the promotion for the reduced price...
 
I thought.. time to get it over with... then I came up with the educational format so that people would understand.

I don't understand how timing makes me suspect... really.. maybe I'm missing the point.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 16, 2010, 07:16:36 pm
Liking Squat Flex isn't exactly a popular stance to have.

I got hate messages and called names just for saying I thought it had it's uses.

I knew it was coming...

I strongly considered just staying out of it.. and I told them so.

I told them I thought..

1. They under sell the actual features of the machine
2. Overhype the marketing
3. Don't get the devices actual use

IMO they are hurting themselves, and could help more people without the hate with a more reasonable and logical approach.

But still I have always felt the device / idea is valuable for a percentage of my community.

But I also told them I like their product and think it has value, and one day I would review it.. but I didn't know how yet.

Yet all the while people who asked I gave them my opinion in private, and worked with several people who used the machine.

Let's not forget I'm not saying SF is my bread and butter, it's not.

But I have learned to work with many different people in many situations and SF has a place for a one of those groups.

We do TONS of one on one work.  In fact I just got off a coaching call.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 16, 2010, 07:18:12 pm
I just realized how the "insert quote" works. <---- noob
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 16, 2010, 08:04:00 pm
Lance:

"Athletes time to improve is limited, by the time they figure out that something they were doing is complete non sesne it may be too late.  They never get that time back."

Again this is another reason that for kids who are at home with body weight or just dumbbells will get more out of their training time with the compliment of the SF.

I see your youtube channel and the equipment and gym you have access to is top of the line.  SF or anything sub par is not even on our radar.  You train with a tendo...  And you probably live in the gym.

Your situation is the antithesis of someone who would most benefit from the Squat Flex.  Adarq as well.

All the kids you train or help out probably have access to a gym, and most of mine do to.

But there is maybe 15 - 25% who doesn't and won't. Period.  Believe it or not, they exist.  They have a small set of dumbells in their small apartment room, and that is it. 

Many more just don't want to go to the gym.. maybe they should, but they won't. 
And they just want something to make some progress on.

SF is an easy way for them.

They actually really enjoy using it.

It's not as good as the facility you have.. but for them it's fast, it's convenient, and it gets them progress.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: zgin on December 16, 2010, 08:18:32 pm
As someone who has trained a few years and gotten some legitimate results, I just want to voice my opinion real quick:
People who "don't want to go to the gym" and/or people who excessively worry about convenience don't get results.  "Athletes"who say they want to improve power but only have 15 min a day, 2 days a week for training will never go anywhere. That seems to be the people who are in this so-called "Squat flex demographic". Adarq knows this, Jack W knows this,  and Jacob, I'm sure you know this as well: you need to be completely dedicated to achieve any success in vert training. You can't worry about the convenience or the fact that you don't feel like going to the gym. Training doesn't need to be the center of your life but you need to put your heart and soul into it to progress. The amount of work put in to gain as little as one inch is admirable. You cant BS your way through everything in the pursuit of convenience. 
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: LanceSTS on December 16, 2010, 08:32:10 pm
  Im not determined to find a villian in you man, I am seriously trying to understand your viewpoint.  It seems that you truly believe in it for certain situations and thats fine, I dont agree with it all but I am not going to bash you for something you honestly believe wether I believe its wrong or right.  

  Jack raised a great point about the power jumper, that would be a legit piece of equipment to add to someones training arsenal that could compliment many more things than the squatflex, but its not being promoted like the squatflex.  Why? well, imo its because they PRICE IT REASONABLY FOR WHAT IT IS, and no one is going to make a killing on the commissions or turnover on it.  

  You seem to agree that training with more traditional means like free weights + bands, barbells, dumbells, etc. is superior to the squatflex only, I think if you clarified that in your videos/promotions of it then people like myself would be alot more understanding of your view and not think of you in the same boat as the others making the ridiculous overhyped claims.  People will see those promotional videos and think its the golden ticket to jump training which we both know is very false.


 I respect that you wanted to clarify your reasoning and came here to do so, I still believe that there are much better and safer ways that people could spend their money and training time at home than buying a squatflex but like I said you are entitled to your beliefs as well and we can agree to disagree on the squatflex.  
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 16, 2010, 08:45:12 pm
Power jumper...

I bought one to test it as well, thought I was going to recommend it pretty heavily.

But, i just didn't' take to it.  It felt awkward, and I just didn't get the feel for it.

Anyways, I left it at home.  Maybe I'll give it another go.

I don't know that it can provide the resistance as heavy as SF can but... I like the idea.

I tried to make it clear in my videos that "progressive resistance" wasn't unique to SF.

IMO - Squat Flex woud sell more with a lower price and make more money.

IMO - Their price isn't doing them good.. BUT they are a low volume unit.

Power Jumper is MUCH higher volume so their margins are way down.

You can get power jumper in a sporting goods store now.

As someone who has trained a few years and gotten some legitimate results, I just want to voice my opinion real quick:
People who "don't want to go to the gym" and/or people who excessively worry about convenience don't get results.  "Athletes"who say they want to improve power but only have 15 min a day, 2 days a week for training will never go anywhere. That seems to be the people who are in this so-called "Squat flex demographic". Adarq knows this, Jack W knows this,  and Jacob, I'm sure you know this as well: you need to be completely dedicated to achieve any success in vert training. You can't worry about the convenience or the fact that you don't feel like going to the gym. Training doesn't need to be the center of your life but you need to put your heart and soul into it to progress. The amount of work put in to gain as little as one inch is admirable. You cant BS your way through everything in the pursuit of convenience. 


I feel ya.. but I have seen people get results with SF + bodyweight at home.  Perhaps it's not the absolute ideal... but it fits their situation. 

I travel a TON so personally I'm always looking for tricks or easy ways to maintain or make a bit of progress until I can get a more ideal situation. 

I've lived in 17 different countries and in most of the countries it's tough for the average person to get into a gym AND much more expensive. The demographic is much bigger overseas... but it's sizable in US as well.

SF + SF ISOs (at lower ROM)+ BW + Plyos is a pretty decent routine to for just doing out of your room.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 16, 2010, 08:54:45 pm
Honestly I'm impressed... I mean I'm still on the "shunned for life list" but I expected to get flamed out or ousted or whatever when I came, which didn't happen...

I appreciate that you allowed me to be open.

I think you see where I'm coming from, and I see where you are coming from.

I follow ADARQs vids pretty regular but this is my first venture over to the forum, and it's good.  It's one of the best forums for vert training, with an active community.

I haven't been to VS in a bit... you and Andrew put a ton of work in here - and it's not all hate ;)

Anyways not sure if this is the end of the debate, but I'll probably try and get a bit more acquainted with the forum here.



Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: LanceSTS on December 16, 2010, 09:02:49 pm
  The deal with the power jumper was the accomodating resistance it provides, in a more natural range of motion than the squatflex does, for waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyy less money, and they also have variable resistance bands going up to over 100lbs of tension per band.   Most these kids dont NEED to worry about accomodating resistance anyway, they need basic compound exercises and to work on their form for quite a while before advancing their training means.  

  I dont reccomend alot of the things I do with athletes in my training center to athletes online because I realize the limited equipment they have access to and also the fact that i am not present with them to make sure it is being done correctly.  Nothing pisses you off more than to see a method you use that has been proven extremely beneficial being butchered by some kid online because they dont have the athletic ability or training knowledge to do it correctly without a massive amount of help.  Same thing with the squatflex, guaranteed there are going to be alot of people with terrible form issues trying to do the hack squat on that thing because they guarantee that you will dunk if you do x number of bands that way.

 But like I said before, if you CLARIFIED THAT THERE WERE MORE EFFECTIVE TRAINING MEANS than doing the squatflex only in your videos/promotions, it would be a different case, that would ensure that kids who were training effectively didnt get derailed by all the overhyped claims.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 16, 2010, 09:15:01 pm
In my videos I think I clarify the issues... did you watch it all the way through?

I can go over them again... but I think they are clearly different then the hyped out stuff that is out there.

Personally I thought the approach was very open, and educationally turned, with VERY little hype.

We just talked about the benefits, and people decided whether it was worth it for for them and their situation to have those benefits.

I had personal contact with most of them and know that the majority are people doing it at home.

The other percentage are looking for a convenient easy workout to do when they are busy.

In my bonus series I teach them form, and I work with them as a group so they get it right.





Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: LanceSTS on December 16, 2010, 09:15:58 pm
Honestly I'm impressed... I mean I'm still on the "shunned for life list" but I expected to get flamed out or ousted or whatever when I came, which didn't happen...

I appreciate that you allowed me to be open.

I think you see where I'm coming from, and I see where you are coming from.

I follow ADARQs vids pretty regular but this is my first venture over to the forum, and it's good.  It's one of the best forums for vert training, with an active community.

I haven't been to VS in a bit... you and Andrew put a ton of work in here - and it's not all hate ;)

Anyways not sure if this is the end of the debate, but I'll probably try and get a bit more acquainted with the forum here.





cool man, nobody is going to flame you for coming on here to defend your position on something you believe.   We may not agree but thats no reason to hate anybody and its respectable that you  wanted to clarify your reasoning.   Adarq will likely post his thoughts when he gets back on later tho so you may want to check back if you want to know his reasoning/viewpoints.  
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: LanceSTS on December 16, 2010, 09:18:56 pm
In my videos I think I clarify the issues... did you watch it all the way through?

I can go over them again... but I think they are clearly different then the hyped out stuff that is out there.

Personally I thought the approach was very open, and educationally turned, with VERY little hype.

We just talked about the benefits, and people decided whether it was worth it for for them and their situation to have those benefits.

I had personal contact with most of them and know that the majority are people doing it at home.

The other percentage are looking for a convenient easy workout to do when they are busy.

In my bonus series I teach them form, and I work with them as a group so they get it right.







I have seen 2 videos, I dont remember you saying that squatflex was inferior to free weights/free weights+ bands/ other methods though, if you did i missed that part. 
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 16, 2010, 09:19:25 pm
Powerjumper was just kind of awkward when I tried it.  It just didn't fly with me.

Conceptually I was pumped to try the power jumper, I thought it was going to give tons of lifts progressive resistance and the option to perform them with full triple ex... ballistic style.

But I just didn't like how it felt, and it didn't jive.

Perhaps I should give it another run.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 16, 2010, 09:21:15 pm
Cool, I'll be checking back in.  Gotta catch a flight tomorrow... it's 3:20 AM in Rome.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on December 17, 2010, 04:17:34 am
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 Nobody will flame you for coming on here and discussing your position on the squatflex, if you are really open minded about this issue then that is respectable.  Fwiw, I have tried to see the upside to it but when it all comes down to the wire the only real reason I can see for someone who understands performance training to reccomend it is money, plain and simple.  All these videos/emails/promotions are all coming out at the same time, that alone kind of cues you in on the fact that jump usa is giving some incentives (money, mailing lists, co promotion of products, etc.) to get their product out and sell lots of them.  Its getting near Christmas time and marketers know that kids can influence their parents to buy things for them.  If your video and promotion would have randomly came out at another time because you honestly believed that the squatflex was a good piece of equipment, that would be totally different. 

that is a pretty good point..



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  The price of that thing is insane for what it is, a kid could easily get a set of adjustable dumbells and do things like walking lunges, step ups, snatches, etc. (and 10,000 other exercises) that would benefit them alot more than doing deadlifts and hack squats on the squatflex and a WHOLE lot less money.  But jumpusa is not paying people to promote dumbells or things that have actually helped athletes, theyre paying them to promote equipment that they sell and made to make a killer profit on.  I strongly believe in using bands with free weights when the situation calls for it, but the bands on the squatflex are not some revolutionary idea jumpusa came up with, they use bands because the shipping on free weights would be unreasonable and they couldnt make nearly the profit they do by throwing together a stick and platform with some cheap bands as the sole means of resistance.

Exactly, jumpusa has yet to ever promote a solid training ideology, it's ALWAYS a gimmick. They make an insane amount of money off squatflex, thing probably costs < $30 to make, then they make money off selling the jumpstretch bands or whichever brand they use, it really has nothing to do with results.




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I agree with what you are saying about needing to lift explosively, the problem with that is how the hell is a kid gonna lift explosively on that thing?  There is a video earlier in this thread of a kid who has already hurt his back doing the hack squats with a controlled tempo, if he were attempting to lift explosively his form would be even worse and he would likely be injured to the point of not being able to train for a while. 

Alot the guys (and you too) who are marketing that thing have already made alot of money off selling these same impressionable kids things online which is fine and dandy, if you have a legit product getting paid for that is completely understood, the problem and the thing that angers us is when you use your influence over them to sell them something that may not only not help them and rip them off, but end up hurting them in the long run.  Lots of ppl look for easy, gimmicky ways to achieve their goals and ripping them off is one thing, but imagine a kid that is putting his heart and soul into his training, buying a squatflex because a "coach" he trusted recommended it to him, then getting hurt or wasting his valuable time in the process.  Athletes time to improve is limited, by the time they figure out that something they were doing is complete non sesne it may be too late.  They never get that time back. 

The same can be said for barbells except, there are vasts amount of resources illustrating proper barbell technique, progressions, etc. I've yet to see HEAVY BAND TENSION good form squatflex videos, nor will I ever. It's easy to load up one band and get into a nicer biomechanical position, but i'd love to see the horrible form breakdown that occurs with more bands, although I've seen that with the young kid and his hurt back.










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Lancests - Thanks man...

I see where you guys are coming from, I just see the usefulness of it in a very specific way.

But the thing is I'm not trying to pull kids out of the gym to use Squat Flex...

It's for a very specific crowd.

I consider almost a "niche" product for training at home period or for people pressed for time.

And for that I think it does provide an additional / superior training stimulus.

There may be someone, but EVERYONE I have talked to who bought Squat Flex is either

1. Pressed for time, and looking to do something at home.
 or
2. For whatever reason is going to train at home.


For these people I could just give them body weight work, or even some cool banded body weight exercises I made.

I could encourage them to get some at home equipment or to make time....

But in the end many of these people want to do it at home... and for that Squat Flex has it's use.



In the end I think they way and purpose of my promotion is different.

I didn't promote it as the "end all be all" like some others did.

I could see if a marketer was promoting that way how it would be misleading or taking advantage...



Maybe you don't see what I'm saying as being different...

I guess that's a key difference between us as coaches. I personally, and I most likely speak for lance, would prescribe bodyweight routines consisting of reactive progressions, sprinting, jumping, etc, until the trainee is able to gain access to barbells and/or dumbells. It's basically a "are you serious?" approach. For example, if I owned a performance facility and people were looking for 'short cuts' or prefer 'working out at home' and wanted me to write a program, I would kick them out of the facility. I don't for one second believe a SERIOUS adult athlete would not be able to access barbells or dumbells. I believe young gullible "kids" look for any excuse to work around what actually works, because what actually works, aint easy. So as I've said in my previous reply, I would NEVER advocate squatflex for young athletes due to:

- Inexperienced "athletes" should not be using band tension
- Form issues & coaching
- Lack of versatility of squatflex
- Cost compared to barbells/dumbells








[/size]
 I understand what youre saying man and youre definitely not promoting it in the same way as others have been, I just still cant get with the notion that you HONESTLY believe that the squatflex is a better option than something like buying a set of adjustable dumbells at wal mart and creating a progressive resistance program for them. 

x2 entirely



Quote
  Lets say that jumpusa was giving the same EXACT incentives, whatever it is that they are giving, to either promote the squatflex, or an adjustable dumbell set.   You as a coach choose which one you HONESTLY believe will lend better results for an athlete in the long run.  Note that the price to the customer is still the same, squatflex ~300$, dumbells ~75$.  Which one would you reccomend?

  With the dumbells you can do, walking lunges, reverse lunges, squats, front squats, deadlifts, romanian deadlifts, jump squats, swings, snatches, presses of all kinds, push jerks, toe raises, shoulder raises in all directions, bent rows, upright rows, curls, tricep extensions, pull overs, weighted abdominal work, etc.

With the squatflex you can do hack squats, deadlifts, shoulder raises, rows, and .....

But either way man, I'm not bashing your opinion on it if you HONESTLY believe that it has a use for some people to buy, I just know that there are much safer, cheaper, and more effective options for someone who wants to train at home and would hate to see someone who is really dedicated be mislead by something they believed in due to it being promoted for reasons other than it being a useful training method.













[/size]
That's a good question....

To cheat.. I'd recommend both... (I'll answer straight up below)

Squat Flex you can overload a straight leg dead lift or standard dead lift to 500 + pounds super easily.

You can easily challenge yourself at extremely high  amounts of tension, basically with Squat Flex you can max out...

AND you can reap some of the benefits of band training.  To me that's pretty great.

----- again we're talking about people only training from home   ------

And I think we underestimate just how many of those people there are.... 

Their are plenty of people training from home, many of them have power racks and barbells. Those people get STRONG. If you could please provide me with videos of a "transformation using squatflex" I'd be really interested, say someone who could barely dunk + their current "squatflex (lol)" at the time, then some after videos (after they make gains, and their squatflex progress).

Not ONE video exists, this piece of crap tool has been around for a long time, hell Luke Lowery (Master Scammer) is the one who basically "invented it" to tap into the home-gym market and sell a pile of crap :)

There has never been a squatflex transformation and i'm pretty sure their never will be, i'd love to see it though (if form is good).






Quote
In my community alone there are literally thousands and thousands who simply want to train from home, and many of them have a small set of dumbbells.

Are those people serious? Plenty of people train from home and buy the ab lounge etc, those people aren't serious, they go nowhere.




Quote
Even close friends and family of mine, they just will not be "gym goers" for reasons I don't really get... I love the gym, the fraternity, the competition... the social aspect... I can't get enough of it.

Those people have no business squatflexing though, i don't get your point?





Quote
But many people including family and friends of mine, just wont' go.. and their not "junkies" like me... but they were very interested in the idea of using the Squat Flex and the convenience aspect of it.

Sounds like they would be better off with a safer bodyweight training routine than loading up on band tension. If you are not SERIOUS then band tension is extra dangerous and unnecessary. We're talking about athletes, not regular joes. Regular joes have no business dabbling in squatflex, especially heavy tension isos at the bottom or loading up considerable band tension through a ROM.




Quote
I also find that a great deal of these people are "small apartment" people.  They live in small quarters... they actually tell me this.

... anyways

To me Squat Flex is a great compliment to a small easy set of dumbbells that can be used in single leg work.

To me ...For the demographic it's best for.... and for jumping and maximal strength.. I'd rather have someone have the Squat Flex, and use a heavy back pack, or the bands, or other means of external resistance for the one leg work.

For someone like you... I'd probably say the dumbells.. because I know you are going to put the work in to it.

But most people have a set of dumbbells (albeit not great) and are considering the Squat Flex as a compliment.

I also think it's important to understand these are not people like you...

You (and other here) are people who are going to get it done.  Highly dedicated, routine...

Many of the Squat Flex folks are just looking for ease and convenience, while still yielding some decent training results.

So let's recommend "noobs" a piece of equipment that can EASILY be loaded up with way too much band tension? See I just keep coming back to this fact, I don't get it one bit.

If someone is looking for ease & convenience they should partake in Yoga, imo. People who take shortcuts using gimmicks to improve maximal strength are the ones who usually get hurt.





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Before I even promoted it, I had people using it, and I worked with them personally to create a program with it and use it from home - and they enjoyed the work... and got decent results.

Like what? Curious.




Quote
I think when you are looking at the Squat Flex (could be wrong) you are asking... Is this the best piece of equipment for vertical jump training?

But when I look at it.. I'm thinking... can this be a tool of some value for a certain demographic of my community.  To me the answer is easily yes...

Is it for everyone?  No, and I tell them so.

I even have some people who have access and ARE gym goers but like using it for quick workouts when they get busy.  An easy way to keep progress up.

Again I'm not saying SF is holy grail here.

But for the people who it IS a fit for... they really love it.

Me (when I'm actually home haven't been home in a year...) I go to the gym, but I like to hope on it and see if I can get to the next band level...  It's a fun challenge to overcome - and it friggin tough.

When I was experimenting with it...

At the time I got it, I was dead lifting about 485 lbs but I think I couldn't load the SF completely up.

I was home for about a month maybe 2, and supplemented with the SF just for giggles, and my VJ and DL went up, and I went up on how many bands I could do.  When I left the US I was up to 515 on deadlift.

Anyways... I don't think I see it the way you do... I also don't think I see it the way it is marketed (by others)...

Nice results yourself.




Quote
What I would prefer to recommend is an elitefts.com band platform, a barbell, and start loading up on plates...  but now we're talking pricey.. and it's not going to going to work for peoples in home gym setup... (for most of these people).

It's easy to setup bands though, you don't need a platform. It really isn't pricey at all, barbell + 300 lb plates is similar cost to the discounted squatflex, add bands, and you have it for much less than the normal asking price.. It's very easy to setup bands on the bar without a special platform, I posted a ton of pics in another thread or this one, i forget.

peace













[/size]
Adarq - Thanks for letting me come in.  After checking out your forum it's actually pretty active which is cool.  I like your slow mo calculator.. I use "MySpeed" for that which is pretty cool.

thanks man, glad you like it.



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I still think we're just looking at it's uses differently.

I'm describing to you a demographic who will enjoy using the Squat Flex... and you are not in it.

That demographic shouldn't be using squatflex, that's my point. You market squatflex to vertical jump trainees in general, of course you tell them it's not for them if they have access to a gym etc, but, the "quick results/gimmick addicted" community, which consists mainly of young athletes, are going to be all over squatflex. Sure, that's not your fault, but, again, inexperienced athletes shouldn't be using rapidly increasing band tension, especially on a squatflex.




Quote
But in my community alone there are thousands who fit in that category, and for them they love and benefit from using Squat Flex.

No matter what we say or think, these people are not going to be regular gym goers.  It's just not on their radar.  That group of people is larger then I once thought.  I interact with these folks all the time.

Those people will buy anything to "get a fix", they never go anywhere, that's just the truth. Instead of promoting squatflex to them, I'd personally tell them to man up and get serious, otherwise, don't waste your time, go have fun playing pickup games at the same level of athleticism until andropause kicks in.





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Some exercises I showed with Squat flex...

Straight leg DL, Romanian DL, isometric holds, front squat (requires longer bands), hack squat (don't really like it), shrugs, front raise, side / lateral raise, curl variations, bent over rows, up right rows, tricep extensions... 

I'm beginning to think that I see it as a tool for a specific use...

A use which you might agree with bit don't think is justified, or worth the money, OR of course.. just get a gym (which IMO is a mute point to this particular group).

I'm also beginning to think that I don't market this or see it in the same way some of the other marketers do...

Regardless, I'm stuck on the "shunned for life" list.

Well, if you market squatflex to the "athletic improvement" community, then you're doing a disservice. Aspiring athletes need to be taught solid, effective methods. There's nothing other than "what really works and has always worked". We can't just create little niche products for them to give them something to "entertain themselves with". This is what ruins the art of s&c. People want to come up with all types of products to make a buck, promoting it as the next miracle strength/power cure, but none of it ever works in creating real athletes. These transformations do not exist and never will. So these people should be told to "get lost" for a while until they are ready to commit, have them focus on other aspects of training in order to improve in the skill department per-se, conditioning, sprinting, bodyweight, etc... If they do not commit to a solid & effective, yet difficult method of training, then they should not be given a fork in the road that leads to nowhere.







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O well.. at least I don't get flamed, except for that guy who called me the devil.

he was kidding, pretty sure of it, because you said you might get flamed etc.










It just keeps coming back to "get in a gym" which by in large is just not the people this is a fit for.

I asked Jump USA about their own market, and they also get a strong majority of people who WANT to do everything from home.... and (in my case) these are people who don't have a garage or a yard or room (or budget) for building their own gym in house.

Jumpusa's market is full of scammed athletes, who never make any progress.. Of course they want to workout from home, jumpusa markets them squatflex/jumpsoles/whatever else, they don't market "get your ass in a gym and get strong."... heh.









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LUKE LOWERY
jacob hiller
alex maroko
adam linkenauger


please give me more names, this list is pretty much the list that shuns you for life.

pc

I think hiller is brining up some good points. Why do you have to say that disagreeing with you means banished/shunned/hated?

could you change that last sentence??

I personally don't think he's bringing up good points, squatflex is not an effective "home gym" alternative.

Shit, for $497, why not just spend a few extra bucks and get a bowflex? Same type of piece of crap.

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=bowflex+price&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=5437528822055704048&ei=dh8LTdq0NoP88AbIw7WWDg&sa=X&oi=product_catalog_result&ct=image&resnum=2&ved=0CCkQ8gIwAQ#

Bottom line, squatflex is marketed to young kids.. YOUNG KIDS.. not Adult athletes looking for a training alternative.. IT IS MARKETED TO YOUNG KIDS, MOST OF WHICH ARE LOOKING FOR SHORTCUTS AND WILL USE HORRIBLE FORM, ADD WAY TOO MUCH BAND TENSION, ETC.

Look at the pics/example use of some "kid" using it, in this thread or wherever it is.. round backed, ugly, wearing a belt, hurt, going nowhere.

I can't take Hiller off the "squatflex promotion list" because he in fact promoted it.

I would guarantee you that the vast majority of the squatflex clientele, those who buy it, are from the ages of 13-17.

........









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"Those who truly lack a gym can make use of plenty of other methods before turning to squatflex, BUT, those who truly lack access to a gym/weights are very rare."

I disagree...

Again.. I think this is being very underestimated.

One of the top questions I get for The Jump Manual is... can I do this at home without weights.

I have TONS of people who I give body weight workouts to at home.  Is there a way to get them to a gym.. maybe.. but the fact is... for some reason, they WANT / WILL train at home.

I'm talking thousands of people in my small group, and millions outside of my group.

Workouts to do from home is probably in the top 10 of questions / requests I get.

Most people who "exercise" go nowhere. Most people looking to improve athleticism or body image, go nowhere. 60+% of Americans are obese. The vast majority of people will fail to follow through with their new years resolutions within 2 weeks.

The list goes on and on, excuses have no place in s&c. True cases are very rare.

If you truly prefer to workout at home & improve athleticism, you get a rack and/or barbells/dumbells. That's just the way it's always been done, and will always be done.

Let's look at people who own multi-gyms/bowflex/abchairs vs those who own power racks/barbells, I mean, let's really look at these types of people. Who do you think is serious? Who do you think actually trains? Who do you think actually makes progress?

There is no community for failure in my opinion, thus methods that are anything less than the most effective, are mostly a waste of time.










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Hi Jacob

talk about walking into the lions den here at adarq.org mate! As always though, you have shown the patience and class I have come to know and respect from you. I just wanted to say kudos for that.

x2




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I still think Lance was onto it earlier with a set of adjustable dumbbells is the way to go for home trainers though. You can buy 2 x 40kg (88 pounds for you US folks) for much less than a squat flex and use them for  damn near everything. Sure you don't get the accommodating resistance, but there have been many, many athletes the world over who have made tremendous gains without accommodating resistance - and I say that as someone who uses bands of various types all the time.

Actually, it just occurred to me that if people were super duper keen to get the benefits of accommodating resistence they could buy some adjustable dumbells and a power jumper and still have money left in their pockets. And you can squat, deadlift, lunge AND do a whole bunch of jumping drills with that thing. Just saying.

Cheers

Jack

First hit, bowflex selecttech, $300, up to 50 lb each hand:

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&expIds=17259,20782,27558,27642&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&q=bowflex+selecttech+buy&cp=22&qe=Ym93ZmxleCBzZWxlY3R0ZWNoIGJ1eQ&qesig=KnW_mfMo1vLXvUqD88Qy0Q&pkc=AFgZ2tkRXaLRW1w3qIjOaJrwhiJ3RRmY_cM5kvS5_gPxC4S1yp9nDBeIE8Vn2U9I2YhzbSoBeugLkKf37EYB-_5JnwGqvILSxw&client=firefox-a&hs=lKr&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=4182483627508312452&ei=UCILTd2hA8P68AaM5aGQDg&sa=X&oi=product_catalog_result&ct=image&resnum=3&sqi=2&ved=0CDcQ8gIwAg#











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  If you really used it and felt that you had some significant gains then you are entitled to your opinion on it, it just makes me skeptical when I never heard or saw anything about this until the big promotion of it comes out around Christmas time with all of the other people promoting it too.  I also dont believe that "both" is a legitimate answer, obviously someone could buy a squat rack and barbell for that amount of money and wouldnt neccessarily NEED either one. 


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  But if you really do believe in it and use it yourself with good gains in performance, why wait until theyre promoting it hard core to all of the sudden talk about it?  Maybe you have other videos or have reccomended it that I dont see?  The EXACT exercise that they made it for is not one you like, so whats more likely, this thing has tons of untapped potential that the designers overlooked, or people are reaching for ways to validate it as a useful piece of equipment?


imo, it is the latter.. They just never got anyone as bright as Hiller to promote it lol. A-link, Maroko, etc didn't dare try and justify squatflex. A-link's reasoning was similar to Hiller's, the "if you don't have access to anything and can only train from home", but we all know it's about the $$.



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  The group that is being marketed to is obviously not primarily older, more experienced athletes, its young impressionable ones that dont need half of the things its being said to do, they need progressive resistance with free weights and compound exercises.  If someone had been training for a while and needed a way to tie bands on a deadlift there are many many options besides spending 300$ on that thing.  There is just no justification in my mind for it and its obviously par for the course with their other products and promoted material, with false promises and hype. 

x2

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But like I said, if you truly believe in a product and are not promoting it simply for monetary gain regardless of wether it is legit or not then I dont think you should be hated for it, I just think that you may be overlooking some serious issues like injuries and false hope that come with something like that. We could take 2 16 yr old kids, train one with squatflex, one with dumbells (for less than half the money), and I  would bet the house the 2nd kid would get vastly superior results.

Agree, but we can't overlook the fact that he's considering it a viable alternative for "people (athletes) who prefer training at home", many of which are young kids. IMO, coaches who truly care about ATHLETIC results would make it a point to hammer-home the idea that more effective training is absolutely necessary.

If squatflex cost $30 i'd still call it a piece of shit and never recommend it to inexperienced athletes.










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I just wanted to say I really respect everyone weighing in on this topic - Lance, Jacob, Andrew...I am not trying to be confrontational or anything, but I think that calling Jacob "The Devil" is way out of line and immature.  Jacob has been very helpful to me and is a knowledgeable trainer.  I also think his views on the SquatFlex are different from that of JumpUSA. 

I personally would not trust JumpUSA as far as I could throw them, but if Jacob says that there could be some benefits to the SquatFlex I would believe him.  Conversely, I believe what Lance says as well, namely that there are other methods of training and those methods are superior. 

The only points I want to make are:

1.  Jacob's knowledge of vertical jump training is vast and he has helped countless athletes improve their verticals.
2.  JumpUSA makes ridiculous claims and that Jacob does not assert the same exact claims.
3.  I fail to see how making childish comments, such as calling Jacob "the Devil" advances the discussion on this topic whatsoever.


Edit - I read Lance's comment about being skeptical about never hearing about Squatflex before and I think this is a legitimate concern.  Not that anyone cares what I think ^ ^

Agreed, though LBSS was clearly joking, a "rude welcome out of jest".







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For general exercise the dumbells are versatile...

Lance's question was a very interesting hypothetical question, but I find most of these at home people already have some dumbbells, and Squat Flex addition is just a compliment to their at home setup.

Those people at home aren't lunging with 90's... I'd take db walking lunges/BSS/calf raise/rows/press/squat with very heavy db's over squatflex any day of the week.



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To me the coolest part of Squat Flex is being able to max out on these compound lifts very conveniently... again mostly for people not going to hit a gym.

"convenience" and "max out" don't belong in the same sentence. You can't "conveniently" max out. If you're maxing out any point along the strength curve, that is considerable & risky tension, regardless of the means.




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And I'm assuming Jack that you also get a considerable demographic who simply wants to train from home and / or without weights.

And as much as I like single leg lifts, with dumbbells, I find that people belly up to the Squat Flex easier then they do the one leg lifts.  It's just so easy.

Without single leg lifts the dumbbells are easy to max out.

Let me give another example... I have a kid who has money... so money wasn't the problem.  And he just wanted the easiest workout to continue building max strength - from home.


Is he going to use it and like it and benefit from it.. doing the SF and the at home single leg stuff...  yes.

In my opinion the debate we are carrying on here, is different from the original debate, and one worth considering for this particular demographic...

I'm not here to hype this thing up, up but I find that it has a use, especially for this particular group.

I see myself still recommending it to their situation.

It's not the focus of my program, or the revolution of jump training in and of itself.  But for for a certain situations it's a nice tool to continue to make progress... an for those people, that is value.


why would you recommend squatflex to someone who has the money? Shouldn't this kid be getting strong ALL OVER using dumbells/barbells/pullups/dips/etc? Plus, the term "kid" already turns me off about it.. If he's inexperienced to any degree, then he will make far greater gains using isolation/multi joint exercises using barbells/dumbells with perfect form and safely progressing the overload over a longer period of time.










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Thanks Cloud...  appreciate that.

.. The Lions Den [Jack W. reference] ...

BTW - Jack people are much more reasonable then I had thought.

I think it comes down to honesty. A lot of the angrier posts relate to dishonest marketing tactics and hype. In your case you have promoted something that without a doubt has been the subject to that special JumpUSA marketing magic. This naturally raises peoples ire.

However you have expressed to me in the past, as well as here now that while you don't agree with the marketing you have an honest opinion that for certain people it can provide a solution. You won't ever convince everybody, and Lance does raise some good points about the timing of your Squat Flex promotion, but I give you the benefit of the doubt because you also expressed this same opinion to me about SF months ago.

Cheers

Jack

A problem here, no matter how hard Hiller defends himself and his beliefs, is that he is promoting a product that was born from scammers and liars (jumpusa/lowery). This company does not promote effective training, if they did, they'd be out of business (ironic isn't it). So unfortunately, jumpusa's tarnished image begins to rub off on Hiller because of the squatflex issue. I'm just saying that from an outside perspective... It's like teaming up with maroko, no matter what he puts out, he's still a scammer at heart, so regardless of how effective flyingin4 actually is, when you team up with the likes of maroko and company, it tarnishes your image. The same goes for jumpusa, and, interestingly enough, everyone here is linked together to dominate the "vertical jump market".

lol








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Lance said:

" If you really used it and felt that you had some significant gains then you are entitled to your opinion on it, it just makes me skeptical when I never heard or saw anything about this until the big promotion of it comes out around Christmas time with all of the other people promoting it too.  I also dont believe that "both" is a legitimate answer, obviously someone could buy a squat rack and barbell for that amount of money and wouldnt neccessarily NEED either one. "

I can respect that skepticism... my own gains on it aren't why I am promoting it.  Although I should have mentioned them, but was mostly caught up in the educational side of it.

"Both" is not a legitimate answer, but further down I thought I gave a more legitimate answer.

 "But if you really do believe in it and use it yourself with good gains in performance, why wait until theyre promoting it hard core to all of the sudden talk about it?  Maybe you have other videos or have reccomended it that I dont see?  The EXACT exercise that they made it for is not one you like, so whats more likely, this thing has tons of untapped potential that the designers overlooked, or people are reaching for ways to validate it as a useful piece of equipment?"

I wanted to promote it as soon as I tested it and liked it..

Interesting.




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BUT, I also knew it was controversial and although i feel my reasons for promoting are legit, I felt that I would be demonized by this group.

I don't keep up with "them" and when they are "marketing it hardcore"  ...

They asked me if I wanted to offer it for the discounted price, and I thought it was time.

I also felt it would take considerable effort and time (which it did) becuase it would be a lot of education about the use of the thing.

LAnce said:

"The EXACT exercise that they made it for is not one you like, so whats more likely, this thing has tons of untapped potential that the designers overlooked, or people are reaching for ways to validate it as a useful piece of equipment?"

Again, I don't feel they market it well, and I feel that it has many uses they don't promote. 

Lance, don't take me wrong here, but for me to market it and not believe it had value, would be horrible for me.  Even if I made a few bucks or even thousands in the long run it would hurt me IMO.

I'm not a SF fanatic, but I think it has benefit for the home group I have been talking about which is a significant population in my community.

Most of them getting it are ADDING it to their little home dumbell set.

I believe.. give me a kid with dumbbells, and give me a kid with dumbbells and the Squat Flex... and we'll out perform the ugly with just the dumbbells.

Possibly, but give me a kid with dumbells, then add barbells or heavier dumbells, and you just shat all over lighter dumbells + squatflex.




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Your hypothetical question was interesting, but it does represent the reality of the group I'm talking about.

I asked my support staff if one of the most asked questions was about doing the workout from home, and it was clearly a "top 10" concern.

Loads of people say... can I do this at home.. and many of those say.. all I have is a small dumbbell set.

Exactly, many of these trainees are inexperienced, weak, and young, of course they have very light dumbell sets etc. If they continue the path and get strong using progressively heavier dumbells (spending the money to get that), they'd be on a far better path than squatflex + light dumbells.





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If your questioning my sincerity or character... i can't do much more then give you my word.

But on a side note, if I am convinced that Squat Flex is not of value for that group, I would never promote it... no problem.

I almost didn't promote it anyways, and I believed it was of value... I knew there would be backlash, but I also knew that lots of people would actually use and benefit from SF.

To me it feels like you are determined to find a villain in me for thinking Squat Flex of some value, but to me it just doesn't seem that crazy.

I don't think that at all, about lance. He's determined to promote effective training methods that have been around since the 60's and 70's, that which still dominate the industry today in terms of effectiveness, but are DOMINATED by gimmicks and ineffective training in terms of usage.





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I don't think you know me man... I give a lot of my time and self to the kids, athletes, parents, and coaches I work with.  It's my passion, it's my life... probably like it is for you.

nice.









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Jack - I agree... and it's true you knew my thoughts about Squat Flex long before I promoted.

But.. I really don't get the point about the "timing" of my launch...

Doing a review or promo about it has been "on the back burner" for a while... partly held at bay because I knew i'd have to do a lot of explaining and people would think I was "one of the "others"...

They contacted me and asked if I wanted to do the promotion for the reduced price...
 
I thought.. time to get it over with... then I came up with the educational format so that people would understand.

I don't understand how timing makes me suspect... really.. maybe I'm missing the point.

Speaking from an outside perspective, timing makes you "suspect" because of jumpusa's history, in getting Adam Linkenauger & Alex Maroko and company to market it last x-mas, just like they do every year. A-link and maroko both know it's a piece of shit and market it... so that's how it makes you "suspect" in terms of the timing, it's been done every year. Jumpusa likes to hop on the backs of "respectable" people and ride their coat tales, same as maroko, it's how the dirty achieve temporary legitimacy.










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I just realized how the "insert quote" works. <---- noob

wish you would have found that earlier :) loolololo












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Lance:

"Athletes time to improve is limited, by the time they figure out that something they were doing is complete non sesne it may be too late.  They never get that time back."

Again this is another reason that for kids who are at home with body weight or just dumbbells will get more out of their training time with the compliment of the SF.

I see your youtube channel and the equipment and gym you have access to is top of the line.  SF or anything sub par is not even on our radar.  You train with a tendo...  And you probably live in the gym.

Your situation is the antithesis of someone who would most benefit from the Squat Flex.  Adarq as well.

All the kids you train or help out probably have access to a gym, and most of mine do to.

But there is maybe 15 - 25% who doesn't and won't. Period.  Believe it or not, they exist.  They have a small set of dumbells in their small apartment room, and that is it. 

Many more just don't want to go to the gym.. maybe they should, but they won't. 
And they just want something to make some progress on.

SF is an easy way for them.

easy, don't want... Those words don't exist in true athletic transformations, those clients need to understand this concept: It aint easy, we don't give a shit what you "want", train using barbells/dumbells. If they can't understand that, then they fall into the group of failures who spend money and get nowhere, just the type of people jumpusa target.


Like I've said in my previous post in this thread, loading up those kinds of people (usually young) with "maximal band tension" is a recipe for disaster.




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They actually really enjoy using it.

It's not as good as the facility you have.. but for them it's fast, it's convenient, and it gets them progress.











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As someone who has trained a few years and gotten some legitimate results, I just want to voice my opinion real quick:
People who "don't want to go to the gym" and/or people who excessively worry about convenience don't get results.  "Athletes"who say they want to improve power but only have 15 min a day, 2 days a week for training will never go anywhere. That seems to be the people who are in this so-called "Squat flex demographic". Adarq knows this, Jack W knows this,  and Jacob, I'm sure you know this as well: you need to be completely dedicated to achieve any success in vert training. You can't worry about the convenience or the fact that you don't feel like going to the gym. Training doesn't need to be the center of your life but you need to put your heart and soul into it to progress. The amount of work put in to gain as little as one inch is admirable. You cant BS your way through everything in the pursuit of convenience. 

[/b]

beyond x2.








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Cool, I'll be checking back in.  Gotta catch a flight tomorrow... it's 3:20 AM in Rome.

rome?????? awesome






this post took 1 hour and 5 minutes.

fml.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: zgin on December 17, 2010, 05:36:35 am
^^^ that is admirable quoting
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Raptor on December 17, 2010, 06:21:55 am
this post took 1 hour and 5 minutes.
fml.

I was really wondering about that. FML stands for...? Fuck my life?
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Ice-O on December 17, 2010, 12:39:33 pm
this post took 1 hour and 5 minutes.
fml.

I was really wondering about that. FML stands for...? Fuck my life?

FML means For My Locos (locos= us)
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Raptor on December 17, 2010, 01:34:45 pm
FMP

For My Pendejos.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Ice-O on December 17, 2010, 02:13:26 pm
FMP

For My Pendejos.

ROFL  :D
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 18, 2010, 02:39:03 pm
Holy cow enormous post....


I still don't get the point about timing... I think I explained why in a previous post. 

It's not that I disagree on that, I just don't don't understand how timing would mean that I don't really feel this way about it.

Whether I promoted at the same time, before, and or after I still feel the same way.

And to be perfectly honest, I thought I was the only one promoting at that time.  But i think others came after me.

Regardless, I don't see how it matters.

I provided videos with good form and details on how to improve the form.

Adarq - "I don't for one second believe a SERIOUS adult athlete would not be able to access barbells or dumbells."

There are adults and kids in my list who won't or choose not to have access to a gym... I know you don't really accept that... and in some scenarios i don't either, but to me that condition is reality for some that I cannot change.

I work with several people who have gotten good results from using or supplementing with Squat Flex.  If you want I can invite them to come to this forum and see if they can share.

To me it's a recurring theme that you don't understand, believe, or accept that there are people in this position.  There's not much I can do about that.

YOU have no kids (I don't think), YOU aren't married (I don't think), YOU have a gym and squat rack ++ in our back yard.

One guy in particular who looves squat flex... has kids, is married, and works to support them 40 - 80 hours per week.

He has a wife and kids to support and spend time with.  He's serious about his training, but it MUST take a back seat to his life responsibilities.


He also loves to use the Squat Flex, especially when pressed for time AND has actually made steady progress from it.

To you that makes him "not an athletes" or "not dedicated enough"

But to me that's him using a tool to make the best with his time, and energy.

You'd say... GOT GET A BARBELL... GET UNDER A DOG GAWN BARBELL! ;)  BUY A RACK AND PLATES!

But at least for now... he's not going to do that... or he's going to do that when he can.

I laid out some of the movements i recommend people do to compliment or create a workout...

Deadlift variations, single leg work, isometric holds at lower positions... grip isn't an issue with straps.

It builds strength, and carries over to vertical leap improvements.

"I would guarantee you that the vast majority of the squatflex clientele, those who buy it, are from the ages of 13-17."

The handful that communicates with me and whose age I know... are all over the age of 17, and 2 adults with kids.


To me we are talking about the same things over and over and expressing our different sides.

You may disagree with me, and we can talk about the finer points over and over...

Your disagreeing with me puts me on the "shunned for life" list.

I also think the real issue is the way other marketed it, and how that rubs you and others emotionally wrong... sport and lifting is sacred to you.

In a way I also agree, I think that the way others market and my association (although different) is still an association, and rubs off a bit.

That stinks, but that's also why I'm here to show that I have a a reason... even if you don't believe me and/or disagree.

I'm not sure we can continue to hash this out any further... I think the issues are on the table here for someone to judge by.

Respect to those who let me speak my peace and at least heard me out.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on December 18, 2010, 04:12:52 pm
Holy cow enormous post....


I still don't get the point about timing... I think I explained why in a previous post.  

It's not that I disagree on that, I just don't don't understand how timing would mean that I don't really feel this way about it.

Whether I promoted at the same time, before, and or after I still feel the same way.

And to be perfectly honest, I thought I was the only one promoting at that time.  But i think others came after me.

Regardless, I don't see how it matters.

Even if the "timing issue" doesn't pertain to you, many people in our part of the world don't see it that way. Maroko, linkenauger, and yourself all started promoting it during the "holiday season". Just like Maroko & linkenauger did LAST holiday season, and basically never since then, until now, the holiday season.





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I provided videos with good form and details on how to improve the form.

Can you please link those videos? I saw a video with one exercise, squatflex-deadlift.





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Adarq - "I don't for one second believe a SERIOUS adult athlete would not be able to access barbells or dumbells."

There are adults and kids in my list who won't or choose not to have access to a gym... I know you don't really accept that... and in some scenarios i don't either, but to me that condition is reality for some that I cannot change.

Check my reply below ;)




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I work with several people who have gotten good results from using or supplementing with Squat Flex.  If you want I can invite them to come to this forum and see if they can share.

Appreciate it but no thanks, if they want too that's fine, but it would be nice to see video testimonials on youtube etc.



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To me it's a recurring theme that you don't understand, believe, or accept that there are people in this position.  There's not much I can do about that.

YOU have no kids (I don't think), YOU aren't married (I don't think), YOU have a gym and squat rack ++ in our back yard.

One guy in particular who looves squat flex... has kids, is married, and works to support them 40 - 80 hours per week.

He has a wife and kids to support and spend time with.  He's serious about his training, but it MUST take a back seat to his life responsibilities.


He also loves to use the Squat Flex, especially when pressed for time AND has actually made steady progress from it.

To you that makes him "not an athletes" or "not dedicated enough"

But to me that's him using a tool to make the best with his time, and energy.

You'd say... GOT GET A BARBELL... GET UNDER A DOG GAWN BARBELL! ;)  BUY A RACK AND PLATES!

But at least for now... he's not going to do that... or he's going to do that when he can.

So, a guy who supports a family, 40-80 hours a week, should spend 297-497$ on a piece of junk, when they could simply go buy a piece of metal tubing from home depot, some bands online (ironmind, jumpstretch), and then simulate squatflex within 30seconds?

(http://i52.tinypic.com/29ix6u.png)

You're seriously justifying spending $497 on a piece of junk like that, for someone who is trying to support a family?


(http://i.ytimg.com/vi/MyvkXoi75mE/0.jpg)

(http://christianiron.com/images/platform%20deadlift%20with%20bands%20setup.jpg)

I could go spend $5 at home depot, right now, buy a piece of 1 and 1/4th metal tubing, just like a barbell, having it cut to say 3 feet, get my jumpstretch bands, wrap it around the bar and under my feet, and do the SAME EXACT THING as squatflex. Absolutely no difference.

With the 492$ I saved, building my own squatflex, I could go buy some dumbells, more bands, a TRX/blast straps, a sled, a weighted vest, a chinup bar for my door frame, possibly a ferrari enzo, and who knows what else.

There's nothing special about squatflex, it's a small box that you stand on, with a little bar, that has bands attached to it. That box be substituted with your FEET. The only thing that makes it "special" is it's ridiculously retarded price and the marketing tactics used to promote it. Other than that's, IT'S JUST A SMALL BOX WITH BAND ATTACHMENTS AND A SMALL BAR. It's not like trying to "build a power rack", which is also very easy if you have the tools. It's not like trying to build a jumpmat. All you need is some bands and a small steel bar, 497$ wtf?

If squatflex is so effective, yet so overly expensive, why not just promote going to home depot? Then you could buy all those other cool toys i listed above and not be on the "shunned list". No one can get off the shunned list unless they renounce their association with squatflex, because, no matter what you want to say to justify it, you're promoting a product that takes so much of one's income when that could be spent on more effective methods, not to mention the device itself could be simulated for 99% less than what it actually costs.




Quote
I laid out some of the movements i recommend people do to compliment or create a workout...

Deadlift variations, single leg work, isometric holds at lower positions... grip isn't an issue with straps.

It builds strength, and carries over to vertical leap improvements.

"I would guarantee you that the vast majority of the squatflex clientele, those who buy it, are from the ages of 13-17."

The handful that communicates with me and whose age I know... are all over the age of 17, and 2 adults with kids.


To me we are talking about the same things over and over and expressing our different sides.

You may disagree with me, and we can talk about the finer points over and over...

Your disagreeing with me puts me on the "shunned for life" list.

I also think the real issue is the way other marketed it, and how that rubs you and others emotionally wrong... sport and lifting is sacred to you.

In a way I also agree, I think that the way others market and my association (although different) is still an association, and rubs off a bit.

That stinks, but that's also why I'm here to show that I have a a reason... even if you don't believe me and/or disagree.

I'm not sure we can continue to hash this out any further... I think the issues are on the table here for someone to judge by.

Respect to those who let me speak my peace and at least heard me out.


peace man
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Raptor on December 18, 2010, 07:04:47 pm
I did that and whaddayaknow?

I now have this:

(http://www.diecastfast.net/images/2968.jpg)
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Ice-O on December 18, 2010, 07:10:09 pm
Jacob, do 7 bands really fit on each side of the squat flex (never seen them on)?
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: BMully on December 18, 2010, 07:12:27 pm
Jacob, do 7 bands really fit on each side of the squat flex (never seen them on)?

I fit 8 on mine......oh wait.....i forgot i don't have one :P
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on December 18, 2010, 08:07:42 pm
Jacob, do 7 bands really fit on each side of the squat flex (never seen them on)?

ya it doesnt' even look like it would hehe.. maybe you need a squatflex upgrade for that, who knows.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: TheSituation on December 19, 2010, 01:33:02 am
I tried to read all of this but I just couldn't take it any more.

I'm saying this in the nicest way possible. Jacob, cut the BS. You don't actually think squatflex is a good product. It's been out for 4 years, and until they started affiliating with you, you didn't say a word about it. (basically what lance said. Not sure if you responded to that). If jump usa wasn't paying you/giving you mailing lists, you would be talking crap about it as much as we are. We're not dumb. Adam Link told me how the process works personally.

You can get a  bench press with leg curl/leg extension and lat pulldown extensions, a bar, 300 lbs of weight, and probably a set of adjustable dumbbells for cheaper than the squat flex.

I do admire you for coming on here though. Sure you're just spitting BS because you don't want to piss off your affiliate because you are the affiliate king, but its more honorable than pretending to ignore this and blocking me from your forum like Adam did.

But yea, Jacob you should be shunned for life for promoting that crap. I will continue to boycott Jump Manual on forums and youtube. Sure for every person I get to not buy your product you will sell 1000, but I will continue to do it. It has nothing to do with how jump usa markets it. I am shunning you for life because YOU promote it when you know it's crap. You have no integrity and shouldn't be trusted.

Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: TheSituation on December 19, 2010, 01:58:31 am
I also find it quite offfensive acting like people who work can't get to the gym. My father before he passed away, went to the gym every day. This is someone who was CFO of a major company in NYC, worked 13 hours a day (counting work and commute, not counting investing/research he did at home) and was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes at 17. Anyone who says they cannot get to the gym ( or at least make a home gym) is full of shit and will never get good results.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on December 19, 2010, 03:11:37 am
I also find it quite offfensive acting like people who work can't get to the gym. My father before he passed away, went to the gym every day. This is someone who was CFO of a major company in NYC, worked 13 hours a day (counting work and commute, not counting investing/research he did at home) and was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes at 17.

damn..


Quote
Anyone who says they cannot get to the gym ( or at least make a home gym) is full of shit and will never get good results.

I share this opinion.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Nightfly on December 19, 2010, 05:52:43 am
Jc actually just said what i was thinking, this was going on for far too long with Jacob talking the same stuff over and over again and not answering a single question. Shunned for life? Hell yeah!

LE: I did make one of my friends a band system with 3 dollars for the band and 15 for the barbell(not olympic) so...
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on December 19, 2010, 06:13:42 am
Jc actually just said what i was thinking, this was going on for far too long with Jacob talking the same stuff over and over again and not answering a single question. Shunned for life? Hell yeah!


Quote
LE: I did make one of my friends a band system with 3 dollars for the band and 15 for the barbell(not olympic) so...

should have bought squatflex, it's only $497 + tax.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 19, 2010, 11:16:10 am
To me it is clear that there are not conditions in which you can even believe that I think this is a good product.

I honestly am open to having my mind changed...

I'm up against people like JC, who don't like me, don't believe me, and will find every reason to believe that everything ever done is for someone to make money.

Is there really any possibility that I can make any traction here?

I respect your opinions...

You don't respect or believe me for mine.




Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 19, 2010, 11:45:50 am
7 Bands fit easily, I have not seen a limitation to the amount of bands.

To me it's just a fact that Squat Flex build strength that WILL transfer to vertical jump.

To me the only thing we can argue about is...

- alternatives / better ways
- Pricing
- safe usage...


Adarq - You and I will turn around the same issues all day long.. we just keep going over the same ones.  I respect that.
JC - I don't have any chance at making any traction with you... I think I've ran into you in other forums, and it wasn't pretty.  I just don't think you like me.  We'll give reasonable communication a shot in the next life.





Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Kellyb on December 19, 2010, 12:47:15 pm
I've never seen a real squatflex but just from the videos and pics I wondered why the hell they didn't focus more on the deadlift instead of that stupid fucking hack squat. Who was responsible for the exercise design part of that thing?

The squatflex is just a symptom of a bigger problem. The general feminization and pussification of society occurs across all fields.  You guys would be shocked at the number of people who can't/won't train correctly because they or their parents think proper training is dangerous.  In my experience you could take a random group of 100 vert bros and pick up a squat rack and dumbell set and have it personally delivered to their home. More than half of them will have to turn it down when you get there - parents say it's too dangerous.

People that will train hard and correctly are a very rare breed and the exception rather than the rule.

It works like this: Parents are inherently worrisome and hold a significant percentage back from the get go. The rest just don't want to train hard.  They try training hard and it hurts. Then they look for justification. "Oh free weights, squats, barbells, etc. are dangerous."  Then they grow up to be a lawyer and take out there anger in some lawsuit against a gym or equipment manufacturer.  Trust me it wont be long before free weights are banned from all public facilities.  I give it somewhere around 15 years tops.  

The squatflex gets around most of those problems.  Parents are much more comfortable with that then a gym membership. They'd easily rather pay the extra $200 or $300 bucks just to feel safe.   Would a bodyweight routine be more effective? Hell yea.  I think any trainer who knows anything about training realizes that.  But the BW training is too simple and boring. The squatflex has some aura about it and it's convenient and doesn't take up much room. The vert bros like it because they don't have to train long and/or hard.  

That's why gimmicks will always outsell legit info.  Part of it is that a big percentage of people will ONLY buy gimmicks because for various reasons they can't handle or do legit.  So, as a marketer if 70% of your market is squat flex oriented and only 30% is legit  are you just supposed to ignore the bad 70%?

That's one reason why people promote the thing. Despite what people want to believe the majority of that 70% ain't gonna change.  They are the way they are.   

The idea of the squatflex is good but its quality is beyond questionable.   Free weights etc. are on their way out though so the  future lies in more effective equipment that works on similar principles.  Home exercise equipment is the future.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: TheSituation on December 19, 2010, 01:16:03 pm
To me it is clear that there are not conditions in which you can even believe that I think this is a good product.

I honestly am open to having my mind changed...

I'm up against people like JC, who don't like me, don't believe me, and will find every reason to believe that everything ever done is for someone to make money.

Is there really any possibility that I can make any traction here?

I respect your opinions...

You don't respect or believe me for mine.






You are trying to convince us that you promoting squat flex isn't about money? The affiliate king is trying to tell us he only affiliates with people he believes in?   :o

inb4 everyone ignores this post and just responds to kelly's accurate analysis.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: mike.1283 on December 19, 2010, 02:21:16 pm
Quote
The squatflex is just a symptom of a bigger problem. The general feminization and pussification of society occurs across all fields.  You guys would be shocked at the number of people who can't/won't train correctly because they or their parents think proper training is dangerous.  In my experience you could take a random group of 100 vert bros and pick up a squat rack and dumbell set and have it personally delivered to their home. More than half of them will have to turn it down when you get there - parents say it's too dangerous.

People that will train hard and correctly are a very rare breed and the exception rather than the rule.

Loving this post and terminology.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Zetz on December 19, 2010, 02:28:54 pm
Jacob. Find a better way to make money. I try to be respectful to people about most everything, but the Squatflex is an entirely useless piece of shit.

7 Bands fit easily, I have not seen a limitation to the amount of bands.

To me it's just a fact that Squat Flex build strength that WILL transfer to vertical jump.

To me the only thing we can argue about is...

- alternatives / better ways
- Pricing
- safe usage...



Adarq - You and I will turn around the same issues all day long.. we just keep going over the same ones.  I respect that.
JC - I don't have any chance at making any traction with you... I think I've ran into you in other forums, and it wasn't pretty.  I just don't think you like me.  We'll give reasonable communication a shot in the next life.


That's the WHOLE argument. Alternatives ARE more convenient AND more effect AND cheaper. KellyB went on about how parents think some things are too dangerous. Your argument over safe usage is useless. I can testify to the fact that parents don't think some lifting is safe. Of course there's a risk involved with putting 200+ lbs on your back and lift it repeatedly. It would be stupid to say there isn't. My parents (mostly my mother) tell me not to lift too much. They say I could injure myself. And I agree with them. Do I stop lifting and pushing my body to be better and buy an overpriced... okay, at this point I don't even know what else to compare it to. It's shit, okay? I don't even like that word, but it's the only way I can describe it effectively. Back to my point. I still lift hard every time I'm in the gym. If my parents don't like it I say, "sorry, that's what it takes. It's what I love to do. You more than anyone know about taking risks to better yourself." The Squatflex can't possibly compare to the alternatives in effectiveness or price. THAT'S why we're so against it. That's the point we've been trying to make, and that's the point you so blindly ignore while trying to promote it. I can guarantee that even my parents, if given the option of paying for a membership to Rulon Gardner's gym here in Logan, or buying me a squatflex, they would choose Rulon Gardner's gym. Because good parents like mine, despite being a little cheap at times, know when things are worth the money. Squatflex isn't one of those things.

And are you trying to kindly tell JC to go to hell by that last comment? What if he doesn't believe in an afterlife? Though I may believe in one, I respect that others don't and I've come to terms with the reality that I could be very wrong in my beliefs (as much as I like to think an afterlife is real). I think that was a very immature way of ending your conversation and a very poor insult to JC.

I don't know you in person. Hell, I might even like you. We could be good friends. But I'd still bash you for promoting squatflex every time the topic came up. That's what real friends do.  ;)
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on December 19, 2010, 03:47:27 pm
7 Bands fit easily, I have not seen a limitation to the amount of bands.

To me it's just a fact that Squat Flex build strength that WILL transfer to vertical jump.

To me the only thing we can argue about is...

- alternatives / better ways
- Pricing
- safe usage...


Adarq - You and I will turn around the same issues all day long.. we just keep going over the same ones.  I respect that.

well why not promote home depot then? It's a serious question.. $5 make-shift squatflex versus $497.. The only thing you still have to buy is bands. If we disregard all of the other reasons why inexperienced athletes shouldn't be loading themselves up with maximal band tension, for example, then cost becomes the main issue, why not promote something that's $5 instead of $497?

seriously, why not promote home depot?



Quote
JC - I don't have any chance at making any traction with you... I think I've ran into you in other forums, and it wasn't pretty.  I just don't think you like me.  We'll give reasonable communication a shot in the next life.

He'd like you alot more if you didn't promote squatflex, guaranteed.. Adam linkenauger was his "boi", then link started acting a bit shady, then he promoted squatflex for the SECOND TIME, and jcsbck cut all ties.. It's the squatflex issue.. He is passionate about people making real gains using effective training, thus his hatred for squatflex, jumpusa, and the BS'r market.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: BMully on December 19, 2010, 03:52:30 pm

JC - I don't have any chance at making any traction with you... I think I've ran into you in other forums, and it wasn't pretty.  I just don't think you like me.  We'll give reasonable communication a shot in the next life.

Just saying, JC hates everyone especially me lol.  If you agreed with his type of training and were knowledgeable, he would like you.

adarq-This thread is on verge of going into the Topic Hall of Fame
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on December 19, 2010, 03:59:48 pm
I've never seen a real squatflex but just from the videos and pics I wondered why the hell they didn't focus more on the deadlift instead of that stupid fucking hack squat. Who was responsible for the exercise design part of that thing?

I've wondered the same... luke lowery and/or the idiots at jumpusa.. just goes to show the retards they have working over there, trying to convince people they know how to improve performance. The main exercise they promote for squatflex should be the deadlift variation. All those kids end up round backing the hack squat.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: BMully on December 19, 2010, 04:03:21 pm
I've never seen a real squatflex but just from the videos and pics I wondered why the hell they didn't focus more on the deadlift instead of that stupid fucking hack squat. Who was responsible for the exercise design part of that thing?

I've wondered the same... luke lowery and/or the idiots at jumpusa.. just goes to show the retards they have working over there, trying to convince people they know how to improve performance. The main exercise they promote for squatflex should be the deadlift variation. All those kids end up round backing the hack squat.


maybe they want you to improve, but not improve well enough that they still have to come back to them and buy more stuff. Luke lowerey always leaves a way to continue to make money off of you, updating programs and shit...jumpusa usually makes add=ons, so they probably want to make sure you don't get the 8bands on each side and  never use the piece of shit again.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 19, 2010, 04:55:26 pm
I have no problems with JC, I just don't foresee a reasonable discussion.  He thinks I'm lying, doesn't like me, and so I have no traction on which to build a reasonable case with him. 

Oh well, I don't even know him... I'm sure if we met in person we could be friends.... either that or he'd just kick my trash and submit me into never promoting the Squat Flex.

It's amazing to see Kellyb in the discussion.  The legend has spoken.

I have run into tons of reasons people won't use gyms... it's a big demographic.  Some of the reasons are more legit then others, but I work with everyone who comes to me based on their situation, even if I can't convince them to get to a gym.


I do agree agree that I don't like the hack squat... in my demos and suggestions I didn't even suggest it.  Only the deadlift variations.

seriously, why not promote home depot?


Checking in to their affiliate program:
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ContentView?pn=SF_MS_The_Home_Depot_Affiliate_Program&langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

Looks decent...  and then I can join the Squat Flex / Jump USA bandwagon and instantly have 10 new best friends!

On a serious note though I don't know where this discussion is going to end up going now... lol...

There's been about a 36 interesting issues we could chase down... and we have restated the same arguments 50 times...

.. but if anyone is interested in my HONEST take on the SF message me, or hite me on on Fbook or something.

Otherwise I just appreciate that people who come here can at least here what my opinion, and I have had teh chance to represent myself.

Zetz - I probably will meet you one day anyways as I come to Utah quite often.

On a side note... if anyone want to buying a sweet hammer please use my affiliate link below:
http://www.homedepot.com/Tools-Hardware-Hand-Tools-Hammer-Mallets-Sledges/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xggZaqub/R-100198281/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

The estwing 28 oz is a beast of hammer.  I'll also include a "How to repair your Squat Flex guide" free!








Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 19, 2010, 05:18:23 pm
I have no problems with JC, I just don't foresee a reasonable discussion.  He thinks I'm lying, doesn't like me, and so I have no traction on which to build a reasonable case with him. 

Oh well, I don't even know him... I'm sure if we met in person we could be friends.... either that or he'd just kick my trash and submit me into never promoting the Squat Flex.

It's amazing to see Kellyb in the discussion.  The legend has spoken.

On the SF vs Bodyweight... I never said SF was better then body weight.. but SF + Bodyweight was better than bodyweight alone.


I have run into tons of reasons people won't use gyms... it's a big demographic.  Some of the reasons are more legit then others, but I work with everyone who comes to me based on their situation, even if I can't convince them to get to a gym.


I do agree agree that I don't like the hack squat... in my demos and suggestions I didn't even suggest it.  Only the deadlift variations.

Adarq:

seriously, why not promote home depot?


Checking in to their affiliate program:
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ContentView?pn=SF_MS_The_Home_Depot_Affiliate_Program&langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

Looks decent...  and then I can join the Squat Flex / Jump USA bandwagon and instantly have 10 new best friends!

On a serious note though I don't know where this discussion is going to end up going now... lol...

There's been about a 36 interesting issues we could chase down... and we have restated the same arguments 50 times...

.. but if anyone is interested in my HONEST take on the SF message me, or hite me on on Fbook or something.

Otherwise I just appreciate that people who come here can at least here what my opinion, and I have had teh chance to represent myself.

Zetz - I probably will meet you one day anyways as I come to Utah quite often.

On a side note... if anyone want to buying a sweet hammer please use my affiliate link below:
http://www.homedepot.com/Tools-Hardware-Hand-Tools-Hammer-Mallets-Sledges/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xggZaqub/R-100198281/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

The estwing 28 oz is a beast of hammer.  I'll also include a "How to repair your Squat Flex guide" free!









Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Zetz on December 19, 2010, 05:24:02 pm
Just to set things straight, I don't dislike you Jacob. I just don't like the squatflex, and I don't like when people promote it. Even if you don't want to go to a gym there are better and cheaper ways to improve at home.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on December 19, 2010, 05:32:35 pm
I have no problems with JC, I just don't foresee a reasonable discussion.  He thinks I'm lying, doesn't like me, and so I have no traction on which to build a reasonable case with him. 

Oh well, I don't even know him... I'm sure if we met in person we could be friends.... either that or he'd just kick my trash and submit me into never promoting the Squat Flex.

It's amazing to see Kellyb in the discussion.  The legend has spoken.

I have run into tons of reasons people won't use gyms... it's a big demographic.  Some of the reasons are more legit then others, but I work with everyone who comes to me based on their situation, even if I can't convince them to get to a gym.


I do agree agree that I don't like the hack squat... in my demos and suggestions I didn't even suggest it.  Only the deadlift variations.

seriously, why not promote home depot?


Checking in to their affiliate program:
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ContentView?pn=SF_MS_The_Home_Depot_Affiliate_Program&langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

Looks decent...  and then I can join the Squat Flex / Jump USA bandwagon and instantly have 10 new best friends!

On a serious note though I don't know where this discussion is going to end up going now... lol...

There's been about a 36 interesting issues we could chase down... and we have restated the same arguments 50 times...

.. but if anyone is interested in my HONEST take on the SF message me, or hite me on on Fbook or something.

Otherwise I just appreciate that people who come here can at least here what my opinion, and I have had teh chance to represent myself.

Zetz - I probably will meet you one day anyways as I come to Utah quite often.

On a side note... if anyone want to buying a sweet hammer please use my affiliate link below:
http://www.homedepot.com/Tools-Hardware-Hand-Tools-Hammer-Mallets-Sledges/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xggZaqub/R-100198281/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

The estwing 28 oz is a beast of hammer.  I'll also include a "How to repair your Squat Flex guide" free

WHY NOT PROMOTE HOME DEPOT INSTEAD OF SQUATFLEX?

we've gone over the other issues, accommodating resistance when used simply with band tension alone is much less effective than when used in addition to barbell weight, young inexperienced (many lazy) athletes shouldn't be loading up with MAXIMAL tension using bands or barbell weight or bands + barbell weight, the "rather stay at home" market shouldn't be loading themselves up with maximal band tension and they rarely ever get results doing anything, eliminating "deceleration" means nothing & is a common marketing ploy to promote non-squat based systems, barbell/dumbell systems are cheaper than squatflex, squatflex is way overpriced - you could make your own for $5 at home depot, squatflex is marketed using shady tactics, squatflex is marketed using lies, "coaches" who promote squatflex don't even believe in it (maroko/linkenauger etc) but the kickback is real nice, squatflex was created by luke lowery & jumpusa.

discuss!
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Raptor on December 19, 2010, 05:41:11 pm
Seriously, are a few dumbbell sets that expensive?

That and sprinting, bounding and depth jumping, good nutrition and rest would pretty much cover everything you need if you really really can't go to the gym.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on December 19, 2010, 05:53:02 pm
HILLER, I HAVE A SPECIAL REQUEST...

Could you please show us video of squatflex deadlift using 4-5 bands, front & side view? I'm not asking you to do anything over what you're capable of doing, I just wanted to see how this would actually look on the squatflex, actually lifting with considerable band tension.

peace
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 19, 2010, 06:02:12 pm
Adarq - I'm not actually home yet... where my SF is.  But I could when I get home.

But really it just looks like a heavy deadlift, the tension on it is really strong and teh curve mounts quickly, but it looks like my original video + popping veins.

Zetz - No worries man, I actually don't really feel that much resentment in here.  JC may not like me, but if I saw myself the way he sees me I might not either.


 :ibjumping: this is the coolest animated gif lol, I've seen this dunk so many friggin times!!!!... ibjumping hahahhah
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on December 19, 2010, 06:07:22 pm
Adarq - I'm not actually home yet... where my SF is.  But I could when I get home.

But really it just looks like a heavy deadlift, the tension on it is really strong and teh curve mounts quickly, but it looks like my original video + popping veins.

ya I can "imagine it" but it would still be nice to see squatflex being used with more tension, i've yet to see a video where the tension is high, let alone the form being good (except for your one deadlift excerpt with low tension.)


Quote
Zetz - No worries man, I actually don't really feel that much resentment in here.  JC may not like me, but if I saw myself the way he sees me I might not either.


 :ibjumping: this is the coolest animated gif lol, I've seen this dunk so many friggin times!!!!... ibjumping hahahhah
[/quote]

lol thanks.. ya props to damien for that gif, shit is epic.

peace








I have no problems with JC, I just don't foresee a reasonable discussion.  He thinks I'm lying, doesn't like me, and so I have no traction on which to build a reasonable case with him. 

Oh well, I don't even know him... I'm sure if we met in person we could be friends.... either that or he'd just kick my trash and submit me into never promoting the Squat Flex.

It's amazing to see Kellyb in the discussion.  The legend has spoken.

I have run into tons of reasons people won't use gyms... it's a big demographic.  Some of the reasons are more legit then others, but I work with everyone who comes to me based on their situation, even if I can't convince them to get to a gym.


I do agree agree that I don't like the hack squat... in my demos and suggestions I didn't even suggest it.  Only the deadlift variations.

seriously, why not promote home depot?


Checking in to their affiliate program:
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ContentView?pn=SF_MS_The_Home_Depot_Affiliate_Program&langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

Looks decent...  and then I can join the Squat Flex / Jump USA bandwagon and instantly have 10 new best friends!

On a serious note though I don't know where this discussion is going to end up going now... lol...

There's been about a 36 interesting issues we could chase down... and we have restated the same arguments 50 times...

.. but if anyone is interested in my HONEST take on the SF message me, or hite me on on Fbook or something.

Otherwise I just appreciate that people who come here can at least here what my opinion, and I have had teh chance to represent myself.

Zetz - I probably will meet you one day anyways as I come to Utah quite often.

On a side note... if anyone want to buying a sweet hammer please use my affiliate link below:
http://www.homedepot.com/Tools-Hardware-Hand-Tools-Hammer-Mallets-Sledges/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xggZaqub/R-100198281/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

The estwing 28 oz is a beast of hammer.  I'll also include a "How to repair your Squat Flex guide" free

WHY NOT PROMOTE HOME DEPOT INSTEAD OF SQUATFLEX?

we've gone over the other issues, accommodating resistance when used simply with band tension alone is much less effective than when used in addition to barbell weight, young inexperienced (many lazy) athletes shouldn't be loading up with MAXIMAL tension using bands or barbell weight or bands + barbell weight, the "rather stay at home" market shouldn't be loading themselves up with maximal band tension and they rarely ever get results doing anything, eliminating "deceleration" means nothing & is a common marketing ploy to promote non-squat based systems, barbell/dumbell systems are cheaper than squatflex, squatflex is way overpriced - you could make your own for $5 at home depot, squatflex is marketed using shady tactics, squatflex is marketed using lies, "coaches" who promote squatflex don't even believe in it (maroko/linkenauger etc) but the kickback is real nice, squatflex was created by luke lowery & jumpusa.

discuss!
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 19, 2010, 06:15:48 pm
I'll see what I can do when I get home.

I took the bands with me on the road and use them in the gym when I get the chance.

But I also have some extra elitefts.com bands I might could throw on there.

I've thought of using the larger bands to try a few more lifts on the thing as well.

Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: John Stamos on December 19, 2010, 06:41:02 pm
jacob do you have any dunking videos?

why do people like ohno on their SF claims say alls u need is 7 bands to dunk? so anyone even if your 400lbs can dunk if you can do 7 bands? i really need help because.....

i wanna dunk like this  :ibjumping:

and id be more convinced to buy it if you have videos of you jumping and dunking

thanks a bunch man I'll owe you big time, i heard u can dunk from behind the foul line, itd be really cool to see
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 19, 2010, 06:47:30 pm
Yeah the 7 bands thing obviously doesn't take in to account many things.

Never dunked behind the foul line... about one foot in front.

I actually do have some dunk vids but there is only one vid of me jumping online somewhere.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: John Stamos on December 19, 2010, 06:53:27 pm
can you find it?
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on December 19, 2010, 06:53:27 pm
jumpusa lies to you when you go on their page, and even when you leave their page.. how can you take jumpusa serious with shit like this?

I actually tried typing "hey ma" in the text box, but it wouldn't let me type... yet another lie from jumpusa.

(http://i.imgur.com/fL1BR.png)




Quote
Quote
I have no problems with JC, I just don't foresee a reasonable discussion.  He thinks I'm lying, doesn't like me, and so I have no traction on which to build a reasonable case with him.  

Oh well, I don't even know him... I'm sure if we met in person we could be friends.... either that or he'd just kick my trash and submit me into never promoting the Squat Flex.

It's amazing to see Kellyb in the discussion.  The legend has spoken.

I have run into tons of reasons people won't use gyms... it's a big demographic.  Some of the reasons are more legit then others, but I work with everyone who comes to me based on their situation, even if I can't convince them to get to a gym.


I do agree agree that I don't like the hack squat... in my demos and suggestions I didn't even suggest it.  Only the deadlift variations.

seriously, why not promote home depot?


Checking in to their affiliate program:
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ContentView?pn=SF_MS_The_Home_Depot_Affiliate_Program&langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

Looks decent...  and then I can join the Squat Flex / Jump USA bandwagon and instantly have 10 new best friends!

On a serious note though I don't know where this discussion is going to end up going now... lol...

There's been about a 36 interesting issues we could chase down... and we have restated the same arguments 50 times...

.. but if anyone is interested in my HONEST take on the SF message me, or hite me on on Fbook or something.

Otherwise I just appreciate that people who come here can at least here what my opinion, and I have had teh chance to represent myself.

Zetz - I probably will meet you one day anyways as I come to Utah quite often.

On a side note... if anyone want to buying a sweet hammer please use my affiliate link below:
http://www.homedepot.com/Tools-Hardware-Hand-Tools-Hammer-Mallets-Sledges/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xggZaqub/R-100198281/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

The estwing 28 oz is a beast of hammer.  I'll also include a "How to repair your Squat Flex guide" free

WHY NOT PROMOTE HOME DEPOT INSTEAD OF SQUATFLEX?

we've gone over the other issues, accommodating resistance when used simply with band tension alone is much less effective than when used in addition to barbell weight, young inexperienced (many lazy) athletes shouldn't be loading up with MAXIMAL tension using bands or barbell weight or bands + barbell weight, the "rather stay at home" market shouldn't be loading themselves up with maximal band tension and they rarely ever get results doing anything, eliminating "deceleration" means nothing & is a common marketing ploy to promote non-squat based systems, barbell/dumbell systems are cheaper than squatflex, squatflex is way overpriced - you could make your own for $5 at home depot, squatflex is marketed using shady tactics, squatflex is marketed using lies, "coaches" who promote squatflex don't even believe in it (maroko/linkenauger etc) but the kickback is real nice, squatflex was created by luke lowery & jumpusa.

discuss!
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: DamienZ on December 19, 2010, 06:57:47 pm
http://rosstraining.com/2009/02/23/homemade-isometric-tool/ (http://rosstraining.com/2009/02/23/homemade-isometric-tool/)
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: TheSituation on December 19, 2010, 06:59:29 pm
Jacob, me hating you ( I don't even remember why. I think it was because you claimed a big vert but the only video you had was you jumping in a pool) has nothing to do with the call out. Like adarq said, I called out my "boi" for promoting squatflex. I hate tons of people but I haven't called them out. I'm calling you out for promoting a product you know is garbage, but then trying to lie to us saying you actually believe in it. You would not recommend squat flex to anyone if you weren't getting paid/mailing lists. You would most likely be insulting it just like we are.

This has absolutely nothing to do with who you are, Jump Manual, your vert, or any of that. It has to do with you promoting a product you know is crap for money.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 19, 2010, 07:26:08 pm
JC - The only problem is there is NO condition on which you will believe that that I am being sincere here.

Your looking at me through lenses so thick you can't even see me straight.

I'm being sincere, like it or not, but to say you think I'm fabricating all this... that's undefendable.  There is absolutely nothing I can do to convince you otherwise... even the truth won't convince you.

It's so clear to you that you can't even fathom that someone else might have a contrary opinion.. and be sane... or even be a decent person.

Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: TheSituation on December 19, 2010, 07:28:25 pm
JC - The only problem is there is NO condition on which you will believe that that I am being sincere here.

Your looking at me through lenses so thick you can't even see me straight.

I'm being sincere, like it or not, but to say you think I'm fabricating all this... that's undefendable.  There is absolutely nothing I can do to convince you otherwise... even the truth won't convince you.

It's so clear to you that you can't even fathom that someone else might have a contrary opinion.. and be sane... or even be a decent person.



Ok fine. You really believe in the squat flex. That makes you a complete moron and nobody should get training advice from you.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: John Stamos on December 19, 2010, 07:41:23 pm
hiller r u still out traveling around in rome?
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 19, 2010, 07:50:48 pm
JC - HA! I kind of thought that was coming. 

I suppose I'd rather be persecuted for my beliefs then, respected for my perceived lies.

I do think Squat Flax has it's uses... no lie - and I'm open to being wrong... really.

Eric - No we're in Texas, Missouri, and Vegas for the Holidays, then straight away out to India.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Cloud3205 on December 20, 2010, 01:17:04 am
I went to a live coaching session with Jacob and he showed a video of him putting down a monster two handed jam.  He just doesn't want to post his videos, as he told me, because he used to be jumping higher when he wasn't traveling as much (and probably younger - right jacob, haha).  Also, looking at Jacob's build you can tell that the man is athletic, he is also like 6'4".  I don't think everytime anyone tells you anything you ALWAYS have to assume they are lying...

Anyway, dude can get up...also heard messages from people in Utah who have balled with him that he is a beast.  Next time I am in Utah I am going to play some pickup with him and I will secretly record him or something.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on December 20, 2010, 02:50:12 am
I went to a live coaching session with Jacob and he showed a video of him putting down a monster two handed jam.  He just doesn't want to post his videos, as he told me, because he used to be jumping higher when he wasn't traveling as much (and probably younger - right jacob, haha).

no offense, but we've all heard those lines many times from all types of people, many not being legit, such as squatdr/maroko or even kellyB etc.



Quote
 Also, looking at Jacob's build you can tell that the man is athletic, he is also like 6'4".

he's got some muscle, so do plenty of people on this earth, doesn't mean they can fly though. I've met/seen a ton of people who "look athletic", yet have absolutely no power/athleticism.




Quote
I don't think everytime anyone tells you anything you ALWAYS have to assume they are lying...

sure, i never mentioned that he could be lying about his ups or anything, i don't care really, you brought it up, but the point is, he has a vertical jump program/site/etc and has no videos of himself performing. Jcsbck brought up the pool jump vid, which if I recall correctly looked really "shady".



Quote
Anyway, dude can get up...also heard messages from people in Utah who have balled with him that he is a beast.  Next time I am in Utah I am going to play some pickup with him and I will secretly record him or something.

no offense but none of this means anything.. he could have massive ups, could have, still has, never had, who knows, but just because you saw a vid that no one else saw, doesn't make him legit, it could have been a 9' hoop for all we know, who knows.... he claims a 44" RVJ, that would put him pretty much at elite status in his prime, if all he ever had was a 35" for example, which would still be very impressive hops at 6'4, it's a big distance between 35 and 44, well not big, huge.. he's only 29, if he has some real good hops right now, it's not like he couldn't get back into his prime.

ironically, 6'4 + 44 = 120" = 10', head on rim, so.

anyway, i never brought up that he was lying about his hops, but since someone brought this up, it's worth addressing, most every person selling a program HAD "elite stats" with no proof.

peace
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Cloud3205 on December 20, 2010, 05:03:29 am
Hey Andrew,

I actually wasn't responding to anything you said, CS said that "I think it was because you claimed a big vert but the only video you had was you jumping in a pool."  I was responding to that.  Sorry I didn't make it very clear.  I agree with what you say about JumpUSA and your arguments about SF in general.


As far as the video is concerned, I know what I saw.  Even if it was a short rim (which I do not believe it to be) he was doing double clutch two handers.  I was just trying to bring up what I personally saw; obviously this is not conclusive evidence as the video is not publicly available.

Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Raptor on December 20, 2010, 05:12:33 am
as the video is not publicly available.

Why?
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Cloud3205 on December 20, 2010, 05:18:20 am
Dude I cannot answer everything the man decides to do.  One thing I want to make clear too before everyone freaks the fuck out is that I didn't say Jacob had "elite" stats either.  I was just trying to say that I saw him do some dunks on a video that he showed me during a ustream video session.  I would wager that there are others who could vouch for this and that they are not just garden variety dunks.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Raptor on December 20, 2010, 05:33:07 am
I don't think dunking is that important, I think proper information is.

If I'm born slow, weak and short, but I tell you good info on how to improve your VJ, then that's what is important. It's the same as fat nutritionists. They might be fat but it doesn't mean the info they tell you is wrong. They just don't want to follow that info because of other factors (lazyness, whateverish) etc.

Still, it seems like Jacob said he jumped 44 so that would be interesting to see.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Cloud3205 on December 20, 2010, 05:35:21 am
Again, I responding to one comment.  The comment was CS to Jacob which said ""I think it was because you claimed a big vert but the only video you had was you jumping in a pool." 

My comments were in response to this comment.

Obviously proper information is important, I don't recall disputing that ever.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 20, 2010, 10:18:20 am
I honestly can't blame anyone for not believing claims of a 44" running vert... I don't have any vids of it.

This was also back in the day where I did jut about nothing online, so I have no "dunk mixes"... although plenty of people have seen me jump like that... hundreds who can and do attest for it.  But it's still skeptical until you see a video... heck people are still skeptical after a video so how can I expect people to believe it without one.

I still dunk easily, 360, reverse all that... BUT I don't still jump 44" from a run.

In the past 2 years I've lived in 17 countries.  Traveled and trained with hundreds of athletes, and promoted my book and training services, as well as just experienced the world.

My diet and training regime is constantly in flux which is not an excuse but..  whenever I come back to the states for a month or 2 I start training really hard.  Since traveling I have lost about 20 pounds, and lost strength as well.

If I come to your area your going to see me do some sweet dunks, and I will ask you not to record it... as usual.

When I release my first public dunks I want them to be at my top level, and I still believe I'm young enough to reach that or surpass it again.

Sure people might be impressed with my current level.... but I'm not, especially since I've jumped much higher.

When I was in Ghana they absolutely thought I was crazy not to post the dunks...  and one guy even recorded me doing a little impromptu dunk show...  but people are impressed by any dunks.  Until my head gets to time level again, I just won't be very satisfied.  I'm only 29 and can still get my elbow to the rim on a good day.  I'm pretty confident I'll get there again.

Until then I occasionally post videos during live coaching calls just for giggles and when I know no one can record them.  And whenever I get to play with Jump Manual users around the world they see me dunk.

This is the "shady" video: http://www.dailymotion.com%2Fvideo%2Fx5u6rv_freak-pool-dunk-dare-20-foot-jump_sport&rct=j&q=freaky%20pool%20dunk%20dare&ei=BHMPTdmkBsGp8AaBx4HNDQ&usg=AFQjCNFislg5IEYOBSdU3QdwTaGOBbXeZA&sig2=PWp6Orz7cdCpBF95ZGEf5A&cad=rja

This video is real (although it's really nothing special) not sure what is shady about it.


In the end I don't rely on my own abilities, past or present to convince people about my program, I just do my best to give solid, logical information that people can understand with their brains.  If it makes sense to them... they will know it works.

If they went on faith because of my abilities, IMO they'd be doing it for the wrong reason.

I always tell peopole if what I'm telling yo makes sense, you KNOW what to do.  If it doesn't... move on.




Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 20, 2010, 10:20:00 am
It's still funny to watch haters on Youtube or wherever (not that I blame them) say I guarantee Jacob can't even dunk... lol

There's a youtube vid of some guy bashing me, and then the guys from Ghana actually say they saw me doing dunks live in person.. and of course they are called liars.

Again, I don't blame them but it's just funny to watch from my point of view.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 20, 2010, 10:22:44 am
In the end people who really want to hate on you are going to do it.

No matter what counter points or proof you come up with... something else will arise.

Especially when you have a degree of success, it's easy for people to target you or treat you like your something than a normal human being.  And some people bring that on themselves a bit.

Some people just seem to prefer to magnify the faults of others rather then magnify their own abilities, talents, and knowledge.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Cloud3205 on December 20, 2010, 12:05:06 pm
LOL Jacob, I was joking abut the secretly record thing!
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 20, 2010, 12:45:03 pm
haha, I know.. but when I play I usually ask people not to record the dunks, cause I know they'll leak to youtube.

Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: DamienZ on December 20, 2010, 01:39:40 pm
haha, I know.. but when I play I usually ask people not to record the dunks, cause I know they'll leak to youtube.

and why would this be bad?

can't be because of privacy... http://jacobandkalli.blogspot.com/ (http://jacobandkalli.blogspot.com/)
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Cloud3205 on December 20, 2010, 01:42:49 pm
Dude you guys got him, he can't dunk much less with authority.  Conspiracy resolved.  This is gay.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Ice-O on December 20, 2010, 02:21:18 pm
Jacob, i want to see that 360 dunk. That link out the pool didnt work for me.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on December 20, 2010, 02:26:04 pm
Jacob, i want to see that 360 dunk. That link out the pool didnt work for me.

here's the link for the pool jump,

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5u6rv_freak-pool-dunk-dare-20-foot-jump_sport





Dude you guys got him, he can't dunk much less with authority.  Conspiracy resolved.  This is gay.

what's gay is people whining in a call em out thread.. It's call em out, questions like this are raised.. Hiller claims a 44" RVJ in his prime and has no vids of that or anything current, of course people are going to question it. IF HE HAD VIDEOS NO ONE WOULD BE QUESTIONING IT.....

most people selling vert programs lie, about EVERYTHING, FACT.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: TheSituation on December 20, 2010, 02:29:45 pm
Dude you guys got him, he can't dunk much less with authority.  Conspiracy resolved.  This is gay.

You know how I know YOU'RE gay?
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on December 20, 2010, 02:35:14 pm
I don't think dunking is that important, I think proper information is.

If I'm born slow, weak and short, but I tell you good info on how to improve your VJ, then that's what is important. It's the same as fat nutritionists. They might be fat but it doesn't mean the info they tell you is wrong. They just don't want to follow that info because of other factors (lazyness, whateverish) etc.

Still, it seems like Jacob said he jumped 44 so that would be interesting to see.

dunking is important, performance isn't important, but not lying is.. so, that's why people raise questions. Verkhoshansky was a decent athlete who did pole vault etc, he never claimed a 50 inch running vert, no one cares, he's a genius, all of his stats, research, theories, practice, is legit, no one cares about his performance because he made no claim. Maroko made claims that we know are false, SquatDr made claims that we know are false, etc etc.. If you make claims, have video evidence or legit 'meet results' to back them up, otherwise, don't make claims and no one would care.. that's the point here.

Why do people make claims without proof? To give themselves legitimacy and sell more shit.

..











I honestly can't blame anyone for not believing claims of a 44" running vert... I don't have any vids of it.

This was also back in the day where I did jut about nothing online, so I have no "dunk mixes"... although plenty of people have seen me jump like that... hundreds who can and do attest for it.  But it's still skeptical until you see a video... heck people are still skeptical after a video so how can I expect people to believe it without one.

I still dunk easily, 360, reverse all that... BUT I don't still jump 44" from a run.

In the past 2 years I've lived in 17 countries.  Traveled and trained with hundreds of athletes, and promoted my book and training services, as well as just experienced the world.

My diet and training regime is constantly in flux which is not an excuse but..  whenever I come back to the states for a month or 2 I start training really hard.  Since traveling I have lost about 20 pounds, and lost strength as well.

If I come to your area your going to see me do some sweet dunks, and I will ask you not to record it... as usual.

When I release my first public dunks I want them to be at my top level, and I still believe I'm young enough to reach that or surpass it again.

Sure people might be impressed with my current level.... but I'm not, especially since I've jumped much higher.

When I was in Ghana they absolutely thought I was crazy not to post the dunks...  and one guy even recorded me doing a little impromptu dunk show...  but people are impressed by any dunks.  Until my head gets to time level again, I just won't be very satisfied.  I'm only 29 and can still get my elbow to the rim on a good day.  I'm pretty confident I'll get there again.

Until then I occasionally post videos during live coaching calls just for giggles and when I know no one can record them.  And whenever I get to play with Jump Manual users around the world they see me dunk.

no offense but that is the typical kind of lingo you hear from people trying to hide their true performance.. we've heard it all before, and we'll keep hearing it.





Quote
This is the "shady" video: http://www.dailymotion.com%2Fvideo%2Fx5u6rv_freak-pool-dunk-dare-20-foot-jump_sport&rct=j&q=freaky%20pool%20dunk%20dare&ei=BHMPTdmkBsGp8AaBx4HNDQ&usg=AFQjCNFislg5IEYOBSdU3QdwTaGOBbXeZA&sig2=PWp6Orz7cdCpBF95ZGEf5A&cad=rja

url: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5u6rv_freak-pool-dunk-dare-20-foot-jump_sport

This video is real (although it's really nothing special) not sure what is shady about it.

Well i remember the comments back when it was on youtube, alot of people thought it was "fake" etc.. looks a bit weird if you ask me, no offense. who cares though whatever.




Quote
In the end I don't rely on my own abilities, past or present to convince people about my program,

actually, you do...

(http://i54.tinypic.com/oqlqup.png)








Quote
I just do my best to give solid, logical information that people can understand with their brains.  If it makes sense to them... they will know it works.

If they went on faith because of my abilities, IMO they'd be doing it for the wrong reason.

I always tell peopole if what I'm telling yo makes sense, you KNOW what to do.  If it doesn't... move on.

that's cool but you still claim a 44" with no proof, claiming your methods got you those results, so of course people are going to put "faith" into your system because of your result.... come on now.

btw i ran 9.7 with a 2mph tailwind in the 100m yesterday.

peace
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 20, 2010, 04:13:32 pm
Adarq - Like I said... doubting prior abilities that I have no current proof of, and only eye witness which also can be doubted... is legit.  I don't blame you.

I'm now worried about copyright or anything like that...  it's just that I know whatever dunk video I release will be recognized as a defining point.

I'm more proud of all the people I have helped to jump higher.  I have lots of great testimonials from people who have done very well... One guy who is about 6'3 - 4 is VERY close to hitting his head on the rim now... he has gained over 10 inches from the program.

Many of you think if I can 360 I should show it now.. but really that's not THAT impressive.  Certainly nothing to be seriously proud of... IMO.  44 running vert is pretty good, but even that is fairly common place on Youtube.

My biggest accomplishment in my mind, is having helped thousands of athletes jump higher, and they have their testimonials all over.  Of course they can be doubted.. but you can contact them on facebook, see their videos, etc... you can call hundreds of them liars... but it would start getting ridiculous.


Kids, adults, coaches, professional athletes, Olympic athletes.... I have literally hundreds if not thousands of legitimatize testimonials that are not even on my site.  These are 95% people you could even contact personally.

That will say more then anything I can ever do.

Has anyone ever seen Verk. dunk or jump?

True it's my own claim that puts scrutiny on my past performance... anytime you make a claim and don't have video or something substantial to back it up, you're asking for.  So I deserve that.

'
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 20, 2010, 04:28:40 pm
Just becuase I say what I have done in the past doesn't mean I rely on that.

There really 3 things I rely on...

Providing quality information that's easy to understand and take action on.

A community of REAL people who believe and have benefited from the help I have given them.

Making myself available so people can know who I really am and not just formulate their own ideas from what the haters might say.


BTW - The Squat DR call out was pretty crazy... I'm still impressed by the dude.  That was the most intense detailed all out ever.

All I can say about my own past performance claims is you can't know... only I can.  You can call me a liar, or you can just say, we can't believe you until you show it.

If I can dunk now... we'll I can.. easily.  People see it all the time.  People saw it today at the gym... I'm in Keller, Texas and 3 Jump Manual play pick up games here with me when I'm in town... just randomly met them here.  They saw me do 360 dunks today.  I'm 6'3.5 ish with a standing reach of just under 8'.

But they weren't THAT impressive, and if I posted them people would see them as me showing what I have achieved...

I'd prefer to just wait until I can get back into full shape... in fact I'm considering trying out for an overseas pro league, to kind of fulfill my dreams.. but I have to get into much better shape.

I'm only 29 man, best years are yet to come... but trying to do as much of the traveling, promoting, and all that stuff I can until I have kids.  Been married 2.5 years.

So anyways, the doubt on my past performance claims are legitimate claims, what I can't prove I can't expect you to believe.  But I'm still going to talk about what I have done - if it's true.







Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: TheSituation on December 20, 2010, 05:38:10 pm
A 360 dunk with a reach under 8 feet isn't impressive? HAHAHA. Few NBA players with that reach could do a 360 dunk easily.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 20, 2010, 05:45:09 pm
JC - A 360 dunk with one hand is not that hard man...  it's not even that cool.  Get your hand above the rim and time your spin.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: TheSituation on December 20, 2010, 05:46:19 pm
JC - A 360 dunk with one hand is not that hard man...  it's not even that cool.  Get your hand above the rim and time your spin.

Lets see you do it then
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Ice-O on December 20, 2010, 06:01:44 pm
JC - A 360 dunk with one hand is not that hard man...  it's not even that cool.  Get your hand above the rim and time your spin.

Lets see you do it then

+1

I just want to see ANY type of dunk. I have no beef with Jacob, I just want to see  :ibjumping:


Adarq, thanks for that link. Fake ass youtube, that jump was coo but the quality was horrendous
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: TheSituation on December 20, 2010, 06:22:46 pm
I don't want this to become about Jacob's possibly inflated vert though. It's about him promoting a product he knows is garbage for money/mailing lists.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 20, 2010, 06:26:05 pm
Yeah the quality on that one was just from some dudes cell phone.. this group of dudes were just calin me out that I couldn't jump over that pool...

I think I've explained my rational... like it, hate it, don't believe it... absolutely LOVE it!  up to you...

I have dunk vids of me now... and if I never get back into training hard, I'll release these so one way or another you'll get to see it.

But it won't matter, you'll probably say they suck or the rim is 6 foot.

JC - I see absolutely no condition by which you would accept me for anything.. it's a losing battle man...  It's impossible.  If I'm wrong great.  I have nothing against you... sure I like to be on good terms with folks, but there's but I can't please everyone, and there are some people who just can't be pleased period.

It's like if things aren't seen you way, then the other guy must be morally wrong.

I'm not trying to dog you bro, but I've heard nothing but negativity from you.. I don't mind some doubt, and skepticism but it's rude often and negative.  

If you're just a "tough" kind of "tell it like it is" guy, then I just won't take it personally.

Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: TheSituation on December 20, 2010, 06:32:24 pm
I don't care about your vert. I said that before. I care about you promoting a product you know is garbage to make money/get mailing lists. If you truly believed in the squat flex like you say, then you are an idiot. This isn't an opinion. It's a fact.

I am very negative in the call em out section. My first experience with a "vert training forum" was streetball talk, the same forum our presumed "beef" started. Because of my origins, it hits me close when I see "coaches" lying to kids to get their money, because I know how many kids fall for this crap.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: BMully on December 20, 2010, 06:43:57 pm
Jacob I don't want to put you on the spot, but it seems that everyone here is wanting a vid from you.

now, I do not know if you got hurt or something,which happens to alot of people with 40+ inch vertical jumps for some reason, but a vid of you dunking would be great mang!

Idk if you have a chan or already have vids out..but stills don't really cut it

and don't make it like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGIcJeBrhwQ
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: BMully on December 20, 2010, 06:45:04 pm
I don't care about your vert. I said that before. I care about you promoting a product you know is garbage to make money/get mailing lists. If you truly believed in the squat flex like you say, then you are an idiot. This isn't an opinion. It's a fact.

I am very negative in the call em out section. My first experience with a "vert training forum" was streetball talk, the same forum our presumed "beef" started. Because of my origins, it hits me close when I see "coaches" lying to kids to get their money, because I know how many kids fall for this crap.

streetball talk was the bestist!!
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 20, 2010, 07:06:53 pm
Bmully - No worries... I'll come out with one.  You aren't the only people who ask... and occasionally I show them.. in coaching session or impromptu when I know no one is screen recording.  Sorry man, it's just the way I wanna do it.

JCS Back -

"I don't care about your vert. I said that before. I care about you promoting a product you know is garbage to make money/get mailing lists. If you truly believed in the squat flex like you say, then you are an idiot. This isn't an opinion. It's a fact."

Again if I don't see it your way I'm either lying or an idiot... 

lol ... I already knew I couldn't win with you man... now I'm just enjoying the ride.  I just hope one day we meet in person, and you don't know it's me... and you realize that I'm just a normal guy, that you might disagree with big deal.

I don't resent it anymore... 

I've been checking out the forum here.. it's lively.. haha, lots of 'purists' here.

It'll be interesting to see how this entire forum / site evolves.





Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on December 20, 2010, 07:07:36 pm
Adarq - Like I said... doubting prior abilities that I have no current proof of, and only eye witness which also can be doubted... is legit.  I don't blame you.

I'm now worried about copyright or anything like that...  it's just that I know whatever dunk video I release will be recognized as a defining point.

I'm more proud of all the people I have helped to jump higher.  I have lots of great testimonials from people who have done very well... One guy who is about 6'3 - 4 is VERY close to hitting his head on the rim now... he has gained over 10 inches from the program.

Many of you think if I can 360 I should show it now.. but really that's not THAT impressive.  Certainly nothing to be seriously proud of... IMO.  44 running vert is pretty good, but even that is fairly common place on Youtube.

uh, a legit 44 is not common place on youtube.. lol

btw, if someone claims a number and has no proof, no matter what the number is, it didn't happen.

from now on, it's "cool story bro" and moving on, because man, no offense, it's not that i do or don't believe you, it's that too often people who claim shit have no proof.. it's DISRESPECTFUL.. if you are legit, then you should know, no proof = didn't happen, and that you're misrepresenting yourself on your website in the 'about section'.

if you claimed 30 and had no proof, it didn't happen.



Quote
My biggest accomplishment in my mind, is having helped thousands of athletes jump higher, and they have their testimonials all over.  Of course they can be doubted.. but you can contact them on facebook, see their videos, etc... you can call hundreds of them liars... but it would start getting ridiculous.

cool, props on helping so many athletes, but your about section is misleading.




Quote
Kids, adults, coaches, professional athletes, Olympic athletes.... I have literally hundreds if not thousands of legitimatize testimonials that are not even on my site.  These are 95% people you could even contact personally.

That will say more then anything I can ever do.

Has anyone ever seen Verk. dunk or jump?

verk never claimed a dunk or jump, he was a pole vaulter, and there's tons of pics of him pole vaulting, and this was in the 1950's.




Quote
True it's my own claim that puts scrutiny on my past performance... anytime you make a claim and don't have video or something substantial to back it up, you're asking for.  So I deserve that. valid

'


Have you ever seen the squatdr thread? Or the maroko thread? Or any of that stuff... Most often, not saying this is your case, but this is what happens:

#1 A coach or athlete fails to achieve a certain result they've dreamed of
#2 This coach or athlete begins to lie to others about results, fabricating some kind of alternative world in their own mind
#3 This coach or athlete promotes themself using this bullshit
#4 This coach or athlete spends their training trying to achieve this bullshit result in order to validate themself, but it never happens.

I'm not saying you are or aren't lying, all i'm saying is, IF YOU DON'T HAVE VIDEO PROOF OR LEGIT MEET RESULTS THEN IT NEVER HAPPENED, SO USING IT IN THE ABOUT SECTION TO PROMOTE YOUR PROGRAM STARTS TO PUT YOU IN TRUE SCAMMER STATUS.

I'm glad this was addressed, i wasn't even going to harp on it until a few of those recent posts.. but it needs to be said, i'm tired of coaches claiming a result with no proof, this goes out to any & every coach who does it..
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on December 20, 2010, 07:10:53 pm
Just becuase I say what I have done in the past doesn't mean I rely on that.

There really 3 things I rely on...

Providing quality information that's easy to understand and take action on.

A community of REAL people who believe and have benefited from the help I have given them.

Making myself available so people can know who I really am and not just formulate their own ideas from what the haters might say.


BTW - The Squat DR call out was pretty crazy... I'm still impressed by the dude.  That was the most intense detailed all out ever.

yeah he got RAPED.

Impressed by what, his 11.5 in the 100m? or his 40" running vert (not 55)?




Quote
All I can say about my own past performance claims is you can't know... only I can.  You can call me a liar, or you can just say, we can't believe you until you show it.

If I can dunk now... we'll I can.. easily.  People see it all the time.  People saw it today at the gym... I'm in Keller, Texas and 3 Jump Manual play pick up games here with me when I'm in town... just randomly met them here.  They saw me do 360 dunks today.  I'm 6'3.5 ish with a standing reach of just under 8'.

But they weren't THAT impressive, and if I posted them people would see them as me showing what I have achieved...

I'd prefer to just wait until I can get back into full shape... in fact I'm considering trying out for an overseas pro league, to kind of fulfill my dreams.. but I have to get into much better shape.

I'm only 29 man, best years are yet to come... but trying to do as much of the traveling, promoting, and all that stuff I can until I have kids.  Been married 2.5 years.

So anyways, the doubt on my past performance claims are legitimate claims, what I can't prove I can't expect you to believe.  But I'm still going to talk about what I have done - if it's true.

if you're about being legit then you'll take that 44 off your about page.. I'm no longer claiming 39 even though I have video evidence of such height, because i only hit 36.5" on a vertec. I'm not longer claiming my 4:32 mile either, It wasn't in an official race.

Let's clean up the industry Hiller. You, Me, Lance, etc.

Changing my BIO as we speak.

peace
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 20, 2010, 07:17:16 pm
I agree that if I don't have proof... I can't prove it... there are eye witnesses, but again I can't prove it.

I honestly don't mind if you don't believe me.

I'm down for cleaning up the industry, collaborating, setting standards etc...

Will I remove that I had a 44 inch running vert?  Because I don't have proof?

Do I have to remove everything from my book and site (important or not) that I don't have in video or absolute proof of?

Should I say I never dunked because I don't have a video up (although I do in my possession)?

Again, I'm totally down with "cleaning" up the industry...

I'd be down with meeting about it and talking about it 2 way...

But in the end I'll do what I think is ethically right or what is agreed on as a whole.

I'm just a person man, when friends family ask how high I have ever jumped I tell them... they don't demand a vid.

I'm open to suggestion and considering things... for sure.

Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on December 20, 2010, 07:18:30 pm
(http://i56.tinypic.com/f3azwx.png)

(http://i52.tinypic.com/2edtr8k.png)

done.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on December 20, 2010, 07:22:20 pm
I agree that if I don't have proof... I can't prove it... there are eye witnesses, but again I can't prove it.

I honestly don't mind if you don't believe me.

I'm down for cleaning up the industry, collaborating, setting standards etc...

Will I remove that I had a 44 inch running vert?  Because I don't have proof?

Do I have to remove everything from my book and site (important or not) that I don't have in video or absolute proof of?

Should I say I never dunked because I don't have a video up (although I do in my possession)?

Again, I'm totally down with "cleaning" up the industry...

I'd be down with meeting about it and talking about it 2 way...

But in the end I'll do what I think is ethically right or what is agreed on as a whole.

I'm just a person man, when friends family ask how high I have ever jumped I tell them... they don't demand a vid.

I'm open to suggestion and considering things... for sure.



Well, the "about" section would be a good start. If we don't have proof of our accomplishments then we shouldn't use them to promote ourselves and legitimize our knowledge. So I just took the first step.

Let's clean this place up.

Peace.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: TheSituation on December 20, 2010, 07:28:27 pm
JCS Back -

"I don't care about your vert. I said that before. I care about you promoting a product you know is garbage to make money/get mailing lists. If you truly believed in the squat flex like you say, then you are an idiot. This isn't an opinion. It's a fact."

Again if I don't see it your way I'm either lying or an idiot... 


If someone says the sky is green, they are either lying or they are an idiot. It's not a situation where someone can have an opinion on the matter. Squatflex being a good product is the same way.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 20, 2010, 07:36:36 pm
Adarq - You have had unproovable claims on your bi for a long time.. I don't see JC killin you over it... you guys are friends.

What do you expect me to say when people asked me how high I have ever jumped? Or if I can dunk?

Could I ever be treated as an equal or friend?...  meaning not always under the microscope... not on the shunned list.. not hated for anything I do wrong?

I'm totally down for making positive changes, for collaborating and helping everyone out.

Right now I just see the eye of scrutiny on me, and no one else... and there are plenty EVEN here... (you guys aren't exempt) who could be scrutinized, criticized, hated on etc...

You guys just band together and rock people... and somehow feel you are exempt.

Look I'm not trying to start a fight again... I'm just being real.  The way people hate on other here and agree with each other and band together is like high school.. it's clannish.

At the same time I see the stuff you guys hate.. and not only do I also nt like it... but I think hype, bad marketing.. is actually BAD for business - AND I think it's the reason mine has taken off.

When I started this I had no idea what I was doing... I was told by 100's of people I should make a book about this.. I've been obsessed since I was a kid... and it has never stopped.

I finally put it online... one thing lead to another.. next thing testimonials are rolling in like crazy... NExt thing I'm on interviewed on ESPN, contacts by Sports Illustrated, contacted by Mens Health, Fadeaway, Coaches, professional players of all sorts,  Olympians... it went nuts...

I just tried to adapt, and compete and stay as "ME" as I could be...

I didn't have a "master plan" or some marketing scheme... it was just me putting up stuff that was long overdue... then reacting to the flood that came.



Anyways... it's been fun, but people turn on you to, they stop treating you like normal, and pu tyou under the "hater" microscope.. it just comes with the territory.  It's ok... I can't stop it.. and I'm just glad to represent myself, so others can decide... that's a privilege here on YOUR forum, and I'm glad for it.

I'm not saying I won't take stuff like that off... and I think it's a cool idea to have dunk standards like .. measuring height of rim, and measuring the standing reach.. I've said as much in my youtube vids.

I even recognize that I can't expect you to believe that I can't dunk... even though hundreds of eye witnesses can attest...  and I have vids on my comp of me doing it right now.. and 30 minutes ago I went outside on a concrete court and dunked about 50 times on a 10 foot rim that I measured with the tape measure I always carry in my gym bag.

Can I not say that because I won't show a vid... because I know if I do, I'll get hated on for the vid?
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 20, 2010, 07:38:43 pm
JC.. what is fact is that you think your opinion is doctrine and irrefutable.

That's the only thing your proving... and your in company that agrees with you so it's easy to do.

Reality, people have differing opinions, and yours or even those in this forum, aren't ALWAYS right.

Isn't this reasonabl ->.. say you disagree, list your reasons... move on.  Let other rational minds decide based on the logic we put forth...

Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on December 20, 2010, 07:42:38 pm
Adarq - You have had unproovable claims on your bi for a long time.. I don't see JC killin you over it... you guys are friends.

Like what? Care to elaborate? If you speak of the 4:32 mile then sure, erased. My 39's weren't measured on a vertec but I have plenty of vids where 3/4ths of my forearm are over the rim, but guess what, not on a vertec, erased. I'm jumping high as fuck right now, but not on a vertec, erased.



Quote
What do you expect me to say when people asked me how high I have ever jumped? Or if I can dunk?

Don't be afraid to post your current athletic abilities, and all will be good.



Quote
Could I ever be treated as an equal or friend?...  meaning not always under the microscope... not on the shunned list.. not hated for anything I do wrong?

I'm totally down for making positive changes, for collaborating and helping everyone out.

Right now I just see the eye of scrutiny on me, and no one else... and there are plenty EVEN here... (you guys aren't exempt) who could be scrutinized, criticized, hated on etc...

You guys just band together and rock people... and somehow feel you are exempt.

CALL ME OUT, PLEASE, DO IT.. I'VE HAD TO EVEN GO THROUGH THE PROCESS OF CALLING MYSELF OUT ON HERE, SINCE NO ONE WILL DO IT..

We are not exempt, of course, no one is saying we are. If someone called me out and put it in a thread i'd fucking love it, but they really can't, it's pretty impossible.



Quote
Look I'm not trying to start a fight again... I'm just being real.  The way people hate on other here and agree with each other and band together is like high school.. it's clannish.

At the same time I see the stuff you guys hate.. and not only do I also nt like it... but I think hype, bad marketing.. is actually BAD for business - AND I think it's the reason mine has taken off.

When I started this I had no idea what I was doing... I was told by 100's of people I should make a book about this.. I've been obsessed since I was a kid... and it has never stopped.

I finally put it online... one thing lead to another.. next thing testimonials are rolling in like crazy... NExt thing I'm on interviewed on ESPN, contacts by Sports Illustrated, contacted by Mens Health, Fadeaway, Coaches, professional players of all sorts,  Olympians... it went nuts...

I just tried to adapt, and compete and stay as "ME" as I could be...

I didn't have a "master plan" or some marketing scheme... it was just me putting up stuff that was long overdue... then reacting to the flood that came.



Anyways... it's been fun, but people turn on you to, they stop treating you like normal, and pu tyou under the "hater" microscope.. it just comes with the territory.  It's ok... I can't stop it.. and I'm just glad to represent myself, so others can decide... that's a privilege here on YOUR forum, and I'm glad for it.

I'm not saying I won't take stuff like that off... and I think it's a cool idea to have dunk standards like .. measuring height of rim, and measuring the standing reach.. I've said as much in my youtube vids.

I even recognize that I can't expect you to believe that I can't dunk... even though hundreds of eye witnesses can attest...  and I have vids on my comp of me doing it right now.. and 30 minutes ago I went outside on a concrete court and dunked about 50 times on a 10 foot rim that I measured with the tape measure I always carry in my gym bag.

Can I not say that because I won't show a vid... because I know if I do, I'll get hated on for the vid?

Stop squatdr'n... You are squatdr'n so bad right now it's insane.

Just man up dude, post some vids, this whole "respect my privacy schtick" has been used way too many times. Maybe you should research those guys, because they all fall apart when we hit them with facts and evidence. Squatdr did the same exact thing you're doing right now, and look what happened to him, completely disappeared in a pool of lies.

call me out.

peace
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: TheSituation on December 20, 2010, 07:45:45 pm
The squat flex being an overpriced piece of crap is a fact. That is not an opinion.

If someone charges 100000 dollars for an apple, it is overpriced. That's not an opinion. I can get the same apple for 50 cents.

I don't call out adarq because he has videos of everything he does. Nothing to do with us being "friends". I called out Adam Link, so that throws your little theory out the window.

Stop throwing me in the same category as the rest of the guys. I don't give 2 shits about your vert. The only thing I care about is you promoting squatflex.

We all hate on the same things because we all have similar morals and hate scammers such as yourself. We are the ones who are trying to clean up the industry. The same industry that you fucked up by promoting squatflex. You cannot say you want to clean up the industry and then promote squatflex. That's like saying you want to end slavery but having 100 slaves in your backyard.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on December 20, 2010, 07:59:00 pm
anyway it's not fighting, it's how a gym atmosphere is.. if someone is doing something others don't like, it's addressed.. if someone is claiming something with no proof, it's addressed..

Imagine if I went into the NFL combine training camp and said "ya bro I jumped 47", "where's the vid", "well no vid", "what can you jump now?", "like 35 max"

i'd get laughed out of the gym..

It's kind of like talking about how "tough you are" and not backing it up in the ring, those people just get humiliated.. I've been in some grimey boxing gyms, i've seen people who lie to themself, they just get smashed..

Again, not saying you're a liar or not, but when athletes get together, if there isn't any official stats or no real proof it happened, it's disrespectful to even bring up.

peace.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on December 20, 2010, 08:01:52 pm
anyway Hiller, this is your call em out thread pretty much, so, realize most of the people going at you here will leave it here. Feel free to post in other sections of the forum if you wish, but this thread and possibly others in the call em out section can get pretty rowdy. Just like if I had a call em out thread, I would expect to have some heated exchanges in it, but it wouldn't carry over to the rest of the forum.

peace
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: BMully on December 20, 2010, 09:25:04 pm
(http://i56.tinypic.com/f3azwx.png)

(http://i52.tinypic.com/2edtr8k.png)

done.

How does it feel??I think you earned it  :personal-record: 
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 20, 2010, 10:12:24 pm
So your leaving it up but just saying you don't have proof?  Basically our still saying it happened....

JC - Nikes are overprices but I bet they're on your feet.  Tons of things are overpriced...

Fact is if I don't' agree with you.. I'm a liar or a moron... it's impossible to disagree amicably with that type of style.

I have been emailed, face booked, by others in this forum who are telling me I make sense and this forum is full of haters.  Why don't they just post in here...

The atmosphere isn't exactly open to disagreeing... you think no  one disagrees cause you're so moral and never wrong.  But really things can get inflammatory pretty quick.

What is Squatdr'n?

LOL

Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Zetz on December 20, 2010, 10:15:48 pm
Jacob, I don't think you get Andrew's point about claims. The reason there was no big deal with him on unofficial claims is because he never pushed anyone for money or to sell products. That's the reason I ended up at this site, because I needed help with track and with bettering myself. I gave plenty of thought to places like yours. But the big problem there was what we've been mentioning. Sites that push products, all of them, look all too similar. Testimonials look fabricated. (though I'm sure there are plenty of true testimonials out there. This doesn't apply to just your site.)

When I went looking for help, looking for some kind of advice and some kind of fix for my weak body (especially weak after serious atrophy in my left arm) I saw HUNDREDS of sites that push "secret" information. They sell some kind of products and make outrageous claims like "Gain 20 lbs of muscle in only one month!" I very honestly considered buying crap like that, and I considered buying all the "secret" information out there. Sites make absurd "sale" days. 24 hours.... 12 hours you name it. At any given moment information is on sale for 90% of the supposed value other "experts" give it.

I don't even remember how, but somehow I ended up at adarq.org and I'm glad I did. Even his highest unofficial claims are impressive and believable based on the EVIDENCE shown in the rest of the site. The reason I've stayed here is because Andrew doesn't push me to buy anything. I ask for help, and I get it. No need to mention how well he's done. If it works for me... awesome. If not.... I'm still only one experimental routine closer to being better. That's why there's no problem his claims. Because the rest of his provable performance clearly shows that it's not an unbelievable thing.

If you're going to be making claims to help SELL something, that's when you need to start showing serious proof. Again, that's why I love it here, that's why Andrew isn't called out, and that's why I'll probably start donating as soon as I get a job so this thing can keep going. Just like Andrew stated in our Q&A: "If I help people for free, and so many of them love the results/advice/guidance & love the forum in general, I will eventually make some money somehow, it'll just happen."

Nothing to push, nothing to sell. No BS products or miracle powders. No unreasonable or hard to believe claims.  


Also, there is nothing wrong with disagreeing on here. I like John Berardi, LBSS doesn't. There's a reason you haven't been banned from the site. Even though the majority may lean one way on certain things, it doesn't mean it's not open to disagreeing. People can disagree all they want, that's why you're still here.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on December 20, 2010, 10:27:25 pm
So your leaving it up but just saying you don't have proof?  Basically our still saying it happened....

I was leaving it like that on purpose, wanted to see if you'd point that out.. Now it's completely gone, let's see you post some videos and remove your 44" claim from your about section. Time to clean up the industry.



Quote
JC - Nikes are overprices but I bet they're on your feet.  Tons of things are overpriced...

Fact is if I don't' agree with you.. I'm a liar or a moron... it's impossible to disagree amicably with that type of style.

I have been emailed, face booked, by others in this forum who are telling me I make sense and this forum is full of haters.  Why don't they just post in here...

The atmosphere isn't exactly open to disagreeing... you think no  one disagrees cause you're so moral and never wrong.  But really things can get inflammatory pretty quick.



Quote
What is Squatdr'n?

LOL

Squatdr'n is claiming numbers that don't exist, using those numbers to promote ones self, as well as "whining about privacy".

peace
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on December 20, 2010, 10:31:44 pm
Jacob, I don't think you get Andrew's point about claims. The reason there was no big deal with him on unofficial claims is because he never pushed anyone for money or to sell products. That's the reason I ended up at this site, because I needed help with track and with bettering myself. I gave plenty of thought to places like yours. But the big problem there was what we've been mentioning. Sites that push products, all of them, look all too similar. Testimonials look fabricated. (though I'm sure there are plenty of true testimonials out there. This doesn't apply to just your site.)

When I went looking for help, looking for some kind of advice and some kind of fix for my weak body (especially weak after serious atrophy in my left arm) I saw HUNDREDS of sites that push "secret" information. They sell some kind of products and make outrageous claims like "Gain 20 lbs of muscle in only one month!" I very honestly considered buying crap like that, and I considered buying all the "secret" information out there. Sites make absurd "sale" days. 24 hours.... 12 hours you name it. At any given moment information is on sale for 90% of the supposed value other "experts" give it.

I don't even remember how, but somehow I ended up at adarq.org and I'm glad I did. Even his highest unofficial claims are impressive and believable based on the EVIDENCE shown in the rest of the site. The reason I've stayed here is because Andrew doesn't push me to buy anything. I ask for help, and I get it. No need to mention how well he's done. If it works for me... awesome. If not.... I'm still only one experimental routine closer to being better. That's why there's no problem his claims. Because the rest of his provable performance clearly shows that it's not an unbelievable thing.

If you're going to be making claims to help SELL something, that's when you need to start showing serious proof. Again, that's why I love it here, that's why Andrew isn't called out, and that's why I'll probably start donating as soon as I get a job so this thing can keep going. Just like Andrew stated in our Q&A: "If I help people for free, and so many of them love the results/advice/guidance & love the forum in general, I will eventually make some money somehow, it'll just happen."

Nothing to push, nothing to sell. No BS products or miracle powders. No unreasonable or hard to believe claims.  

nice post, appreciate some of the kind words.


Quote
Also, there is nothing wrong with disagreeing on here. I like John Berardi, LBSS doesn't. There's a reason you haven't been banned from the site. Even though the majority may lean one way on certain things, it doesn't mean it's not open to disagreeing. People can disagree all they want, that's why you're still here.

exactly, this site is an example of true s&c democracy, the only people that get banned are the stupid trolls like kkllkkll. Anyone here is capable of posting advice, reviewing a program/product, posting a call em out, etc. I am not immune to call-em-out, nor is anyone.

peace!
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: JackW on December 20, 2010, 10:31:58 pm
Excellent post Zetz - and I say that as someone who does sell a program. The help Andrew gives to people is fantastic and I sincerely hope he does get the recognition and reward for his efforts.

Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: TheSituation on December 20, 2010, 10:49:55 pm
So your leaving it up but just saying you don't have proof?  Basically our still saying it happened....

JC - Nikes are overprices but I bet they're on your feet.  Tons of things are overpriced...

Fact is if I don't' agree with you.. I'm a liar or a moron... it's impossible to disagree amicably with that type of style.

I have been emailed, face booked, by others in this forum who are telling me I make sense and this forum is full of haters.  Why don't they just post in here...

The atmosphere isn't exactly open to disagreeing... you think no  one disagrees cause you're so moral and never wrong.  But really things can get inflammatory pretty quick.

What is Squatdr'n?

LOL



I actually wear starburys

Let's stop avoiding the problem. I have a problem with you promoting a product you know is crap for money. You wouldn't be recommending the squat flex if they weren't paying you/giving you mailing lists. You are the reason the industry is a joke. You saying people can't get to the gym because they work is insulting. You cannot prove your vert because you can't jump that high. Why would somebody who travels all around the world to teach people not be training?  You're worse than Maroko in my opinion. He knows he's wrong and doesn't care if we know it. You are actually trying to convince us (and probably yourself) that you aren't promoting squatflex for the money. That's insulting our intelligence. We aren't dumb. We don't believe you.

The people on your facebook are the same saps that buy into maroko's crap. I don't take anything they say seriously.
We hate scammers such as yourself. If that makes us haters than so be it.

end rant/. I'm done with this clown until he actually answers what he's been asked.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 20, 2010, 11:02:46 pm
Adarq - I agree, I like your style, I like your forum... but... Zetz.. I disagree...

Adarq does make money from this with advertising, and thus he DOES have an interest in making it work.

And honestly, I hope he finds a way to make money doing this... so he can do it full time and make some serious contributions.

JW - Just curious are you going to remove your information about you increasing your vert from mid 21 to mid 30s?

This whole... must have a video or must be silenced is pretty strong.   

Squatdr''n I don't have any problem with privacy... I'm not sure if you understand why I don't publish dunk videos... I'm pretty sure you actually believe me about me dunking... but not sure you understand why I don't release them.

I'm also trying to get you guys to understand me... if you think your treating me the same you treat eachother, I'd call that a joke.  You guys like and respect eachtother, you are friends and trust each other.. that's fine.  But you also band against people you have all decided are immoral, liars, or stuppid.

In other forums I have been told I am PLAGIARIZED without any substantiation.

I've been called a liar.. by someone who has no idea.

I've been told I have not track and field background.

I've been told I've never dunked... because i have no video of it.

I've been called a moron for disagreeing with the anti squat flex cult (mostly JC).

Ok..  no I am whining.. :)

I'm totally considering all this "cleaning up"

I want to present things as the facts are.... sure we can dress them up exciting but we can't lie or deceive.  There is a difference.  We can even market well, and uses ethical but effective sales practice... but we can't lie or deceive.  I'm 100% down with that.  I feel I have tried to do that.  I have been honest about everything.


I do get asked "what's your highest jump"  "have you dunked" and your telling me I have to lie, or just be silent, or just say I have no video so I cannot comment on that subject.







Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 20, 2010, 11:07:58 pm
JC, i see no new questions... just the same stuff from you:

1. I don't believe you.
2. If you believe that you're a moron.

Nothing more I can do.

I think you and I are at a standstill.. until:

1. You accept I believe that.
2. Understand we have a difference of opinion

I believe Lance, and Adarq have accepted that.

I have had people message me saying... that makes sense... even that other guy said "Hiller is making some sense"

Before I ever promoted I told Jack my stance on SF... it's the way I feel about it.   And I think it's right... and think an independent audience... free from all this would agree with me.

You don't think that... oh well.

We can't even agree to disagree... lol.. impossible.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 20, 2010, 11:09:00 pm
JC - WE are at a stand still, if you want to discuss with me more, please message me...

I have no problem with you, but I don't think we "me and you" are going to make any traction on understanding one another.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 20, 2010, 11:21:49 pm
Would this also mean I'd have to remove any testimonial I have given that didn't have a full before an after proof?

I think we'd also need to see a measurement of the rim for Adarqs stats as well as a measure of his standing reach...
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on December 20, 2010, 11:23:10 pm
Adarq - I agree, I like your style, I like your forum... but... Zetz.. I disagree...

Adarq does make money from this with advertising, and thus he DOES have an interest in making it work.

And honestly, I hope he finds a way to make money doing this... so he can do it full time and make some serious contributions.

Well, the farthest i'll go is collecting some ad revenue from adsense, which is extremely small and not something I focus on. I've tried to block all fitness ads from showing, some get through though. I don't mind having ads for restaurants, dvd's, electronics etc on this site.

My interest in making this site work has absolutely nothing to do with adsense, though it is just a biproduct of occasional clicks and increased traffic.



Quote
JW - Just curious are you going to remove your information about you increasing your vert from mid 21 to mid 30s?

This whole... must have a video or must be silenced is pretty strong.  

So if JackW does it, you will? Sounds like you're not even considering it IMO, I seriously doubt you would remove that 44" claim from your about section. A 44" running vert at your height would be absolutely mindblowing.

Regardless, JackW doesn't use "mindblowing stats" to promote his product, though, I'd love to see him able to jump again and post videos.




Quote
Squatdr''n I don't have any problem with privacy... I'm not sure if you understand why I don't publish dunk videos... I'm pretty sure you actually believe me about me dunking... but not sure you understand why I don't release them.

I believe you can dunk sure, upload a vid. I "understand" your reason as to why you don't want to upload videos until you're "back to your peak performance", but you've got alot of people "here" doubting your claims, why not just drop a dunk clip real quick and shut us the fuck up? Squatdr was checkmated because he couldn't post anything impressive, and he claimed MASSIVE ability... You're not claiming massive ability right now, so it's not like you have to be at 44" RVJ right now to change our opinion of your athleticism.

You've shown those dunk videos to your clients, such as Cloud during a coaching call, but you can't put up one of your impressive dunks on a forum who is questioning some aspects of your credibility? You see, that's where everything falls apart.




Quote
I'm also trying to get you guys to understand me... if you think your treating me the same you treat eachother, I'd call that a joke.  You guys like and respect eachtother, you are friends and trust each other.. that's fine.  But you also band against people you have all decided are immoral, liars, or stuppid.

In other forums I have been told I am PLAGIARIZED without any substantiation.

I've been called a liar.. by someone who has no idea.

I've been told I have not track and field background.

I've been told I've never dunked... because i have no video of it.

I've been called a moron for disagreeing with the anti squat flex cult (mostly JC).

Ok..  no I am whining.. :)

I'm totally considering all this "cleaning up"

I want to present things as the facts are.... sure we can dress them up exciting but we can't lie or deceive.  There is a difference.  We can even market well, and uses ethical but effective sales practice... but we can't lie or deceive.  I'm 100% down with that.  I feel I have tried to do that.  I have been honest about everything.


I do get asked "what's your highest jump"  "have you dunked" and your telling me I have to lie, or just be silent, or just say I have no video so I cannot comment on that subject.

I'm telling you that you have to STOP lying.. you triple jumped 44' and long jumped 22', that is for all we know, legit, given some high school "states" event listing your triple at 43'4.5", sure your claimed 44" RVJ came after, but we in the vert world have problems trusting it. I mean, all you have to do is the jump manual, and you'd be back at 44". You've had two+ years of video to drop some impressive videos regarding your performance, but you still choose not too. You claim traveling/nutrition etc interferes, but I mean aren't you PR'n on deadlift?

It just doesn't add up man.

You could have nipped this whole "attack" in the butt 5+ pages ago, but you havn't, doesn't make sense...

You don't really know squatdr's history on forums and in the industry, you're pretty much mimicking plenty of things he was doing... You do GENUINELY want to help people from what I gather, but to me, it seems you're living some lies and crossing over to the darkside slightly by affiliating yourself with jumpusa.

You are ducking and dodging better than pernell whitacker mang..

peace man







edit:


Would this also mean I'd have to remove any testimonial I have given that didn't have a full before an after proof?

nope


Quote
I think we'd also need to see a measurement of the rim for Adarqs stats as well as a measure of his standing reach...

(http://i.imgur.com/CoGPv.png)

^^ cool story Hiller.. cool story.

lol i've measured rims and reach on vid and uploaded for TVS etc, i can do it again for you if you want, but i've already done a few things like deleting shit from my bio, let's see you man up :)

I'm not even asking you to measure your sub 8' reach @ 6'4 LOL.... t-rex mang, sucks.. but that's not effecting your deadlift much i bet.. James Smith status, long arms for benching, short arms for verting.

peace
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 20, 2010, 11:27:12 pm
Again.. KB.. I'm sorry to mention, I'm really not trying to call him out...  much respect.
But does that photo really constitute enough to substantiate the claims on his vert?



Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 20, 2010, 11:29:53 pm
Oh I'm definitely considering it ADQARQ, I'm just seeing if the treatment is going to be fair.

To me it's clear that I'm being targeted and those of your own are being overlooked.

Honestly, I am considering it... but understand... I'm triyng to see exactly what that means as well.

I'm exploring what your saying with a total open mind, and I think some of it has some real merit...

Just let me explore this a bit with you... still reading your post though.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 20, 2010, 11:32:23 pm
You've shown those dunk videos to your clients, such as Cloud during a coaching call, but you can't put up one of your impressive dunks on a forum who is questioning some aspects of your credibility? You see, that's where everything falls apart.

--- adarq quote above...

To me this just show you don't understand why I don't post the vid.  Anyways, chill with that a sec.. unless you really want to pursue it.  I'm honestly considering it... but I have a feeling my dunk clips at current ability.. (I have one with a 360 on my comp right now.. but still I'm not in the shape I was at age 24-25) will bring more hate then not posting. 
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on December 20, 2010, 11:40:36 pm
Again.. KB.. I'm sorry to mention, I'm really not trying to call him out...  much respect.
But does that photo really constitute enough to substantiate the claims on his vert?

No, it doesn't. We've called KellyB out on here plenty of times, in various threads. I for one believe he had a 40" RVJ, who knows about SVJ, but definitely, that one pic doesn't mean anything. But this thread isn't about kellyb really, if people want to call KellyB out in his own thread, that's fine, I for one respect all of the information he provides, the guy is incredibly smart & provides effective training info, but that DOES NOT mean I don't have my own doubts of his performance.





Oh I'm definitely considering it ADQARQ, I'm just seeing if the treatment is going to be fair.

To me it's clear that I'm being targeted and those of your own are being overlooked.

Why wouldn't it be fair? I just deleted stuff on my own site which "boosts my image", I did it immediately, without hesitation. 39" vs 36.5" is a big difference, not being able to claim my non-existant 4:32 mile time does damage and shits on all the hard work I put in during that time, albeit, for boxing, but I don't have meet results so for all I know I could have been have gone into shock during the run and dreamed about the 4:32.

So it's not you being targeted, I have been targeted as well, based on the evolution of this thread.





Quote
Honestly, I am considering it... but understand... I'm triyng to see exactly what that means as well.

I'm exploring what your saying with a total open mind, and I think some of it has some real merit...

Just let me explore this a bit with you... still reading your post though.

Ok.





You've shown those dunk videos to your clients, such as Cloud during a coaching call, but you can't put up one of your impressive dunks on a forum who is questioning some aspects of your credibility? You see, that's where everything falls apart.

--- adarq quote above...

To me this just show you don't understand why I don't post the vid.  Anyways, chill with that a sec.. unless you really want to pursue it.  I'm honestly considering it... but I have a feeling my dunk clips at current ability.. (I have one with a 360 on my comp right now.. but still I'm not in the shape I was at age 24-25) will bring more hate then not posting. 

I guarantee you if you removed 44" from your about section without posting a vid, everyone here would immediately be forced to ease up. If you posted a 360 with some great power, say close to 40", then your 44" claim could actually seem more probable and all of us who pressed you on this issue would immediately look like complete morons.

That's all there is to it really.. If those issues were addressed, the only thing anyone here would have issues with you about, would be squatflex.

Peace
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 20, 2010, 11:44:18 pm
To me the 22 long jump (not that impressive) and the 44 long jump (also not that stellar) cannot be proven... either can the recorded numbers without a video...  NO video lies right?

Quote
I'm not even asking you to measure your sub 8' reach @ 6'4 LOL.... t-rex mang, sucks.. but that's not effecting your deadlift much i bet.. James Smith status, long arms for benching, short arms for verting.

Lol - I'll upload that for you ASAP if you want.  I'm 6'3.5 but my neck is long lol, and I do have short arms and hands.  

Amazing how everything I say leads to some kind of scandal.

Start treating me like I could possibly be a decent person, whose honest.

Quote
I'm telling you that you have to STOP lying

What is this in regards to?

I actually feel like progress is being made here... so let's not digress back into calling each other liars, and getting all worked up.

I'm on your territory, I'm seriously considering these things and exploring them.  

I'm just asking to treat me like a friend or at least not an assumed liar until Jan 1st.  See what happens.  Fair enough?

Then we'll continue this conversation and explore it.

I won't accuse anyone of anything, and I'll speak the truth, and explore your ideas to proving things and/or not talking about what can't be proven... or what happened in the past.

Is that unreasonable?

Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 20, 2010, 11:52:04 pm
Adarq - I'm not a computer science major ( I don't think I have your set of technical skills)... AND my site is currently being redesigned (by someone I hired)... both my blog and my site.  

The last version he showed me didn't have a bio page period.  So it might already be done... But I'm trying to figure out what else would have to be changed, and what I would say when people ask about this.

I have many eye witnesses to this stuff.

Regardless, I'm seriously considering it... and props to you for doing it right away.

It would suck to not be able to mention something I did.

I'm honestly thinking of what I'm supposed to say when I'm asked.  It's a FAQ on my questions page as well.

I think there are others in this forum that applies to, and it shows that I'm not being measured by the same standard.

Again... that's me whining but I think it's true.

But honestly I don't think me changing my 44" on my bio would change anyone.. especially when I post something else I have been thinking about... if I ever do.

I don't mind disagreeing with you... or anyone else here.  It's when I can't disagree without being called a liar, or suspect or something like that.


Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 20, 2010, 11:58:04 pm
Quote
to claim my non-existant 4:32 mile time does damage and shits on all the hard work I put in during that time, albeit, for boxing, but I don't have meet results so for all I know I could have been have gone into shock during the run and dreamed about the 4:32.

To me this is still claiming it to some degree, everyone here believes you... I believe you.

I have no problem dong that... I jumped a 44" running vert WITH eye witnesses, on multiple occasions BUT no video of it so I can't claim it, which sucks because I put hard work into it.. but now it's non existent.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on December 21, 2010, 12:01:23 am
To me the 22 long jump (not that impressive) and the 44 long jump (also not that stellar) cannot be proven... either can the recorded numbers without a video...  NO video lies right?

Did you go to liberty high school? If so, the meet results are official.



Quote
Quote
I'm not even asking you to measure your sub 8' reach @ 6'4 LOL.... t-rex mang, sucks.. but that's not effecting your deadlift much i bet.. James Smith status, long arms for benching, short arms for verting.

Lol - I'll upload that for you ASAP if you want.  I'm 6'3.5 but my neck is long lol, and I do have short arms and hands.  

bro no, upload some dunks... lol




Quote
Amazing how everything I say leads to some kind of scandal.

Start treating me like I could possibly be a decent person, whose honest.

Quote
I'm telling you that you have to STOP lying

What is this in regards to?

I actually feel like progress is being made here... so let's not digress back into calling each other liars, and getting all worked up.

I'm on your territory, I'm seriously considering these things and exploring them.  

I'm just asking to treat me like a friend or at least not an assumed liar until Jan 1st.  See what happens.  Fair enough?

Then we'll continue this conversation and explore it.

I won't accuse anyone of anything, and I'll speak the truth, and explore your ideas to proving things and/or not talking about what can't be proven... or what happened in the past.

Is that unreasonable?

Sure it's reasonable, but just because I've "gone at you" hard (actually gently, i don't hate you one bit), doesn't mean I don't respect you as a human of this earth. People would perceive that I hate alex maroko with a passion, well, I hate his scamming ways, but not even a month ago we had like 6+ email exchanges just on how each other was doing, it made no sense, but as a person I am not going to just disrespect him and treat him like trash, I put our beef aside. You and I really don't have a "beef", I've posted my analysis of your vert claims, squatflex, and all that stuff, none of which means I hate you or wish any ill will upon you. When I say "you're lying about 44", it's just my belief that your numbers may have been fabricated based on lack of video proof on any level, it is not an outright judgement.

Anyway, Call-Em-Out section is like a boxing match, we throw hard shots, but usually their is no defense, as most people are afraid to come here and debate, because they know it would just end brutally for them. You are trying to defend yourself, but you could do so, so much easier in my opinion and just make all of us shut up on certain issues, finally delivering a blow back to adarq.org's call-em-out section, which is unscathed at the moment.

Peace man





Adarq - I'm not a computer science major ( I don't think I have your set of technical skills)... AND my site is currently being redesigned (by someone I hired)... both my blog and my site.  

The last version he showed me didn't have a bio page period.  So it might already be done... But I'm trying to figure out what else would have to be changed, and what I would say when people ask about this.

I have many eye witnesses to this stuff.

Regardless, I'm seriously considering it... and props to you for doing it right away.

It would suck to not be able to mention something I did.

Definitely, but you can't claim to be the champ without actually earning the belt --- lol more boxing references. So i'll have to live with parts of my training history being completely redacted from my site. Lessons learned imo.



Quote
I'm honestly thinking of what I'm supposed to say when I'm asked.  It's a FAQ on my questions page as well.

I think there are others in this forum that applies to, and it shows that I'm not being measured by the same standard.

Again... that's me whining but I think it's true.

But honestly I don't think me changing my 44" on my bio would change anyone.. especially when I post something else I have been thinking about... if I ever do.

Well, in my opinion, it would show that you are more sincere about not misrepresenting yourself to promote your product. Sure, it could have very well have happened, 44" could have been a reality, but we are in the digital age and there is no proof of it, so in the court of s&c Law, it would not be able to be used as evidence in a case to prove your innocence, as it is heresay without video or some kind of official "basketball combine" result etc.



Quote
I don't mind disagreeing with you... or anyone else here.  It's when I can't disagree without being called a liar, or suspect or something like that.

Understood.

pc








Quote
to claim my non-existant 4:32 mile time does damage and shits on all the hard work I put in during that time, albeit, for boxing, but I don't have meet results so for all I know I could have been have gone into shock during the run and dreamed about the 4:32.

To me this is still claiming it to some degree, everyone here believes you... I believe you.

I have no problem dong that... I jumped a 44" running vert WITH eye witnesses, on multiple occasions BUT no video of it so I can't claim it, which sucks because I put hard work into it.. but now it's non existent.

Right, of course that's somewhat claiming, but it's not in my bio & never will be, and I will never actually claim it from this day forth, it was used for context of our discussion.

peace








EDIT: The only number I am going to claim is 36.5" since it happened on vid, measured, etc. The only number I will claim in the near future is 47" when I lacerate my head on a 10' rim, measured. IMO, It didn't happen if it's not on vid/official.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: JackW on December 21, 2010, 12:04:26 am
Hi Jacob

I have no intention of removing my claim of 21 inch to mid 30's. I worked damn hard for that gain  :strong:.

I am going to post a video of my current running VJ later today when I get back to my home computer though. You guys can then all feel free to laugh at me and call me out all you like, I won't mind.

Also in Jacobs (and Adam L's defence) I do want to make a point that is often overlooked and that is that just because someone is selling a program doesn't make them a bad person, a liar, a cheat, or any of the other things getting thrown around here.

I know this thread is about Squat Flex and and I don't agree with Jacob, or anybody else for that matter promoting it, I also want to remind people that both Vert Freak and Jump Manual are pretty good programs based on sound training principles. You guys can question Jacob all you like about his SF promo, but if you have read his blog or his program, he does know his stuff. Same with Adam Linkenauger.

What is overlooked due to the anti-SF view is that aside from SF, these guys do spend hours and hours helping people increase their vertical jumps. And they do it for what I consider a reasonable price. I know before I released my program I spent countless hours responding to emails, watching peoples videos etc. I did it because I love it as I am sure Andrew does.

However at some point it started to get silly and I was not getting enough sleep which impacted my training and recovery, not getting to play with my kids as much as I liked, and my actual business suffered because of of the time I spent doing things for free. So, while I don't agree with Jacobs stance abotu Sflex, if I way up more good with the time and effor tto help people achieve their goals versus more harm by promoting squat flex, I am giving him the benefit of the doubt because I bet a lot more people have been helped by him than have bought Sflex.

Same for A-Link. In the VJ industry there are people who I consider to be good guys such as Jacob, Adam, Kelly etc who have good programs who help people, then there are folks like Air Alert and TVP who should be avoided at all costs.

I hope I haven't gone off topic too much.

Jack




Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 21, 2010, 12:05:25 am
I also don't have pics of me weighing 235 pounds with 12% (which is an "accomplicshment" I don't intend to re attempt, for a long time) BF BUT my entire family, wife (gf at the time), house mates, basketball squad, good friends all saw me on the scale weighing that much... yeah I weighed myself all the time during that era.

But I honestly don't think I have any flex off pics or anything of it.

My India pic (the one you teased about being shopped, I'm only 215 - 220.

And weighed in today at 208.

Can I never mention that either?

Was I short sighted for not videoing this stuff?  Yes.  does that erase it? No.  Will some people not believe me?  Yes.

Again.. just roll with me a bit... try not to insult - I'm trying to seriously consider what you are asking here.

Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: JelloPuddinPup on December 21, 2010, 12:10:54 am
Hey, I'm kind of a neutral party here, but I've been following the thread since the first couple of pages. Anyways, this is the first time I think I've had something to contribute to the discussion.

Let me first just say, that both parties have their stances, they both seem to believe in their stances...but neither side seems open to changing their minds without the other side giving/conceding first. This debate is going Tit for Tat...but both side are all about Tits and no Tats. (Tits...haha).

To my point, it's about the quote(s) below:

Quote
to claim my non-existant 4:32 mile time does damage and shits on all the hard work I put in during that time, albeit, for boxing, but I don't have meet results so for all I know I could have been have gone into shock during the run and dreamed about the 4:32.

To me this is still claiming it to some degree, everyone here believes you... I believe you.

I have no problem dong that... I jumped a 44" running vert WITH eye witnesses, on multiple occasions BUT no video of it so I can't claim it, which sucks because I put hard work into it.. but now it's non existent.

I think there has been some confusion. What has been said is that you can't claim you have done that jump or run without proof. And that's wrong. Claim it all you want. I tell my friends all the time about stuff I have done. (I actually got a between the legs dunk for the first time ever a few months ago...only 3 witnesses, my friends that don't know those 3 people don't believe me...but it did happen.) And I still claim it happened. Now, what should have been said is: Don't make claims you cannot prove to help you earn cash or profit. (I don't tell people that this program I used let me dunk a ball while bringing it through my legs. And that they can do it as well if they buy it.).

I hope that example made my point there. I may have kind of confused it a smidge but I think it still gives you the notion of what I'm saying. Either way, I'm enjoying reading the thread and both sides are committed. I don't fully agree with either side, but that's partially because of the facts; but mostly because of the manner of the debate. Disagree if you will with eachother, but be men enough to not call names. We're above that...you bunch of a-holes. :P
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 21, 2010, 12:13:45 am
Quote
I have no intention of removing my claim of 21 inch to mid 30's. I worked damn hard for that gain.

I agree with Jack, and feel the same way.

Nor do I expect him to change it... of course you guys will say mine is different because it's higher... but the same thing applies, I worked dang hard for it.

Jack and I do disagree about SF though... but Jack knows that I promoted it based on my honest opinion - as with ANYTHING I have promoted.

SF + Bodyweight (with our without dumbells) > Body weight alone.  I stand by it... :)

Props to Jack (what the heck are props anyways)... I have almost always liked Jack haha...  

Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on December 21, 2010, 12:17:32 am
I also don't have pics of me weighing 235 pounds with 12% (which is an "accomplicshment" I don't intend to re attempt, for a long time) BF BUT my entire family, wife (gf at the time), house mates, basketball squad, good friends all saw me on the scale weighing that much... yeah I weighed myself all the time during that era.

But I honestly don't think I have any flex off pics or anything of it.

My India pic (the one you teased about being shopped, I'm only 215 - 220.

You looked big in the india pic.





Quote
And weighed in today at 208.

Cool.




Quote
Can I never mention that either?

Sure, why not, 235 @ 12" bodyfat for someone 6'4 is "elite level"? No, and your pic at 220 looks big, why would I not believe that you could have been 235?

I think you're forgetting that 44" RVJ is "elite status".



Quote
Was I short sighted for not videoing this stuff?  Yes.  does that erase it? No.  Will some people not believe me?  Yes.

You have pics that are actually pretty close to a 235 lb / 12% frame, so it isn't far fetched that you could have achieved those stats, which aren't "amazing" in their own right, so no, no one would have a problem with you claiming those stats.




Quote
Again.. just roll with me a bit... try not to insult - I'm trying to seriously consider what you are asking here.

pc









Hey, I'm kind of a neutral party here, but I've been following the thread since the first couple of pages. Anyways, this is the first time I think I've had something to contribute to the discussion.

Let me first just say, that both parties have their stances, they both seem to believe in their stances...but neither side seems open to changing their minds without the other side giving/conceding first. This debate is going Tit for Tat...but both side are all about Tits and no Tats. (Tits...haha).

To my point, it's about the quote(s) below:

Quote
to claim my non-existant 4:32 mile time does damage and shits on all the hard work I put in during that time, albeit, for boxing, but I don't have meet results so for all I know I could have been have gone into shock during the run and dreamed about the 4:32.

To me this is still claiming it to some degree, everyone here believes you... I believe you.

I have no problem dong that... I jumped a 44" running vert WITH eye witnesses, on multiple occasions BUT no video of it so I can't claim it, which sucks because I put hard work into it.. but now it's non existent.

I think there has been some confusion. What has been said is that you can't claim you have done that jump or run without proof. And that's wrong. Claim it all you want. I tell my friends all the time about stuff I have done. (I actually got a between the legs dunk for the first time ever a few months ago...only 3 witnesses, my friends that don't know those 3 people don't believe me...but it did happen.) And I still claim it happened. Now, what should have been said is: Don't make claims you cannot prove to help you earn cash or profit. (I don't tell people that this program I used let me dunk a ball while bringing it through my legs. And that they can do it as well if they buy it.).

I hope that example made my point there. I may have kind of confused it a smidge but I think it still gives you the notion of what I'm saying. Either way, I'm enjoying reading the thread and both sides are committed. I don't fully agree with either side, but that's partially because of the facts; but mostly because of the manner of the debate. Disagree if you will with eachother, but be men enough to not call names. We're above that...you bunch of a-holes. :P

Nice post, but I did bring that up earlier, "somewhere" (lol).. Right, it's using an "elite stat" to promote a program/ones self without any proof. He could claim he's not using it for that, but in the about section it mentions how he used "the methods in the jump manual to achieve a 44 inch running vert" etc.. That's promoting using an elite stat without any type of proof, which is the main issue.

peace









Quote
I have no intention of removing my claim of 21 inch to mid 30's. I worked damn hard for that gain.

I agree with Jack, and feel the same way.

Nor do I expect him to change it... of course you guys will say mine is different because it's higher... but the same thing applies, I worked dang hard for it.

Well if you are done considering "not claiming 44", then at least post some nice dunks please. :)


Quote
Jack and I do disagree about SF though... but Jack knows that I promoted it based on my honest opinion - as with ANYTHING I have promoted.

SF + Bodyweight (with our without dumbells) > Body weight alone.  I stand by it... :)

Props to Jack (what the heck are props anyways)... I have almost always liked Jack haha... 


Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 21, 2010, 12:18:07 am
Quote
Don't make claims you cannot prove to help you earn cash or profit.

So if you ever make a program, and people say have you ever done an in between the legs dunk?

- congrats on that by the way, that is a tricky dunk... I tend to think it requires super fast hands... -

You will say...

You will tell the truth, and then some will believe and others won't.  Am I wrong?

Good comment though...

Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Zetz on December 21, 2010, 12:24:32 am
Andrew would film it just to show off. That's why he's "da bess mayne." Haha
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 21, 2010, 12:26:42 am
Quote
Sure, why not, 235 @ 12" bodyfat for someone 6'4 is "elite level"? No, and your pic at 220 looks big, why would I not believe that you could have been 235?

I think you're forgetting that 44" RVJ is "elite status".

Dude I was pretty friggin proud of the 235.. lol i thought it was huge.  That was the size Arnold was only less body fat.

To me there are lots of people close to that vert.  jumptrainee - youtube is or at least was at one point VERY close to that.  His size shape and dunks are almost exactly like mine.. same size, and darn near same vert.

Most if not all of TFB is above 44 RVJ....

Kenny Dobbs easily over that... IMO

Squat DR, has some jumps of him jumping higher then 44" I think..

Alink jumps over 44...

Ball is life, hoop mix tape, and others post high school athletes that have at least a 44" RVJ all the time.

To me a standing 40" vert is harder to get then a running 44".

Regardless, this is something I did repeatedly with audience... It's different to me then a mile run that NOONE saw.

Same with my current dunks, there are eye witnesses all the time.  This very day I did a 360 with 10 people watching at the local gym - and when they asked how I gave the all free Jump Manuals.

I'm loving this conversation for some reason.  It's getting me fired up.


Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 21, 2010, 12:28:17 am
Quote
it isn't far fetched that you could have achieved those stats, which aren't "amazing" in their own right,

Yes huh.. Are too amazing..  :headbang:
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Zetz on December 21, 2010, 12:29:57 am
You mad, bro?  :P
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: JelloPuddinPup on December 21, 2010, 12:33:06 am
Quote
Don't make claims you cannot prove to help you earn cash or profit.

So if you ever make a program, and people say have you ever done an in between the legs dunk?

- congrats on that by the way, that is a tricky dunk... I tend to think it requires super fast hands... -

You will say...

You will tell the truth, and then some will believe and others won't.  Am I wrong?

Good comment though...



Thanks, I only got it one time. But it counts! :)

And if I did make a program, and somebody asked; then yes I'd tell them. But I wouldn't make it my selling point. I would use whatever proof I have (believe me, I'd try to get proof of it too) to sell it. Or I'd at least show them videos of me trying. If you saw me trying up to the point, you'd know I could get it because I would get it high enough, I just kept losing the grip. It's like you said, it takes quick hands with great timing...thus why my slow hands and lack of timing have only allowed me to successfully get it once.

Quote from: Adarqui
Nice post, but I did bring that up earlier, "somewhere" (lol).. Right, it's using an "elite stat" to promote a program/ones self without any proof. He could claim he's not using it for that, but in the about section it mentions how he used "the methods in the jump manual to achieve a 44 inch running vert" etc.. That's promoting using an elite stat without any type of proof, which is the main issue.

peace

My bad. Must've missed it. But heck, with as many quotes and different styles of quoting have been exercised in this thread who could blame me for missing it. Haha. Either way, that was my only problem with the discussion so far...and it seems that it was already brought up so I'll be happily watching from the corner of the room again.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on December 21, 2010, 12:36:19 am
Quote
Sure, why not, 235 @ 12" bodyfat for someone 6'4 is "elite level"? No, and your pic at 220 looks big, why would I not believe that you could have been 235?

I think you're forgetting that 44" RVJ is "elite status".

Dude I was pretty friggin proud of the 235.. lol i thought it was huge.  That was the size Arnold was only less body fat.

To me there are lots of people close to that vert.  jumptrainee - youtube is or at least was at one point VERY close to that.  His size shape and dunks are almost exactly like mine.. same size, and darn near same vert.

Most if not all of TFB is above 44 RVJ....

Kenny Dobbs easily over that... IMO

Squat DR, has some jumps of him jumping higher then 44" I think..

Alink jumps over 44...

Ball is life, hoop mix tape, and others post high school athletes that have at least a 44" RVJ all the time.

To me a standing 40" vert is harder to get then a running 44".

how many people at the nba draft combine's have 44" RVJ? good try though.




Quote
Regardless, this is something I did repeatedly with audience... It's different to me then a mile run that NOONE saw.

is it? There's no proof of either event. I used to run with boxer's/mma guys from various gyms, I had to slow down to match their speed and most of them were 5min mile guys, I don't have their contacts anymore, so, again that's nothing, but just like you, I had "witnesses" to very good mile times. I didn't care about mile/5k as much as I should have, I cared about boxing. I sparred all out, 100%, ~3 times a week at two gyms, american top team and warriors, I could get a testimonial from Mike Brown (former WEC champ) perhaps if he remembered me, he was impressed with my abilities, or Coach Howard Davis Jr. (olympic gold medalist), but again, I don't have vid, so I'm not going to try and sell a program on it or act like I can train boxers due to an embellished "impressive past". So that stuff is irrelevent.... 44" RVJ is not irrelevant to how you promote yourself, big difference.



Quote
Same with my current dunks, there are eye witnesses all the time.  This very day I did a 360 with 10 people watching at the local gym - and when they asked how I gave the all free Jump Manuals.

One day someone is going to "sneak footage of you" and post it on youtube, so far after 2 years though, no one has..




Quote
I'm loving this conversation for some reason.  It's getting me fired up.

Nice, go out and drop some nasty dunks on vid, post it, would be tight.






(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f373/daknucklegameisill/4qxyumt.gif)
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on December 21, 2010, 12:48:36 am
Alright, well i'm off to go train my ass off, can't wait to check out Hiller's dunk video when I get back.

Peace out.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 21, 2010, 12:49:35 am
Quote
how many people at the nba draft combine's have 44" RVJ? good try though.

Can you disagree with my point and not be smug?  Or am I msinterpretting the "good try though... or Nice story hiller?

There are plenty of vids on ball is life, and hoop mix tapes of dudes with 44" running... shall I go grab a couple of my favorites and post them here?

Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 21, 2010, 12:52:28 am
I always call out short NBA verts...

Look at NFL full of 40 + running verts, not to mention a decent amount of standing 40+ verts.

IMO 40" + running vert will be more and more common place.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 21, 2010, 12:55:29 am
Quote
And if I did make a program, and somebody asked; then yes I'd tell them. But I wouldn't make it my selling point.

I don't think it's my "selling" point... but it is listed on my bio.

Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on December 21, 2010, 01:00:10 am
Quote
how many people at the nba draft combine's have 44" RVJ? good try though.

Can you disagree with my point and not be smug?  Or am I msinterpretting the "good try though... or Nice story hiller?

There are plenty of vids on ball is life, and hoop mix tapes of dudes with 44" running... shall I go grab a couple of my favorites and post them here?



you're talking about a handfull of people on youtube..





I always call out short NBA verts...

Look at NFL full of 40 + running verts, not to mention a decent amount of standing 40+ verts.

IMO 40" + running vert will be more and more common place.

nfl combine reaches are all inflated by 2-3", still you have some legit 40's sure, but subtract 2-3" from every result due to shoulders retracted DOUBLE ARM reach. Those guys are very strong, much of them would not have considerable differences between SVJ and RVJ, it would be very minimal, 2-4" for pretty much everyone excluding WR's/DB's who have a big basketball history.

44" RVJ is ELITE LEVEL.. Adam Linkenauger competed on a D1 level winning multiple ACC championships with a 50" RVJ at 5'11, you're 6'4. Donald thomas probably doesn't even have a 44" legit RVJ.

anyway im out.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 21, 2010, 01:07:04 am
Adarq - We'll see about posting the dunk vids.

Again.. at least 1000 (dunked in some shows and won one dunk contest again.. no video but many eye witnesses) people on my facebook page have seen me dunk... good dunks.

That's a lot of people.

At least 50 have seen me dunk at an "elite level" (people from intramural teams post college ball days) and that's just on my facebook friend list.

IMO - That's different then just doing it on your own and not having the video.

Last month at least 30 eye witnesses in Ghana (local playground) saw me hit my elbow on the rim (tape measured rim at 9'11)... and ONE was filming my dunks with his mobile phone, and I asked him not to post online.

I can and will invite eyewitness to come and tell you about all of the above...

We'll see though, I might release a vid or take down the claim.. I'm thinking about it all.

I'll definitely be sleeping when you come back from your midnight blitz...  

Just treat me like a potentially decent person until Jan 1. ... pretend we're contemporaries on decent terms, and give me the benefit of the doubt.

Possible?
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 21, 2010, 01:16:40 am
Links RVJ is awesome... I have seen him get his head to a rim, and the rim looked 10 foot.

That.. is elite level.

If 44" is elite level.. awesome. 

Personally I think a running 40" + RVJ can be achieved by many... especially for those who focus just on training vert.

Volleyball, football, Track and Field... play ground ballers, top high schoolers.. I'd bet there are thousands of 40 inch or more RVJ out there.  To me above 45 is where the levels start really thinning out.

Currently I had many testimonials from guys who have done JM with a 40" plus RVJ...  Matthew Godely is jumping over 40" in the video testimonial he made me.  Another recent short white guy from Utah achieved a 40" and dunked.  Nik Skouen is dang close to 40 + with RVJ... another which I was asked to take down was 40 plus... I'd have to go through the archives to find more.

Adarq.. you will soon if you haven't already hit 40 inch RVJ or more.  On a good day I still think I can get DANG close to 40 RVJ...


Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on December 21, 2010, 01:17:02 am
Adarq - We'll see about posting the dunk vids.

Again.. at least 1000 (dunked in some shows and won one dunk contest again.. no video but many eye witnesses) people on my facebook page have seen me dunk... good dunks.

That's a lot of people.

At least 50 have seen me dunk at an "elite level" (people from intramural teams post college ball days) and that's just on my facebook friend list.

IMO - That's different then just doing it on your own and not having the video.



Quote
Last month at least 30 eye witnesses in Ghana (local playground) saw me hit my elbow on the rim (tape measured rim at 9'11)... and ONE was filming my dunks with his mobile phone, and I asked him not to post online.

I can and will invite eyewitness to come and tell you about all of the above...


i'm so confused by that, your reach is sub 8', I forget what exactly, say it's 8' exact, that's 96".. you hit 9'11 with your elbow, if your reach is 96" like mine, then from fingertip to elbow you're looking at 18-19", 119 + 19 = 11'6 aka 138" - 96" reach = 42"... I remember you saying your reach is 7'10 or so, then you're looking at 44".

So now i'm thoroughly confused................................................. doesn't add up given your "i'm trying to get back to previous ability" statement..






Quote
We'll see though, I might release a vid or take down the claim.. I'm thinking about it all.

I'll definitely be sleeping when you come back from your midnight blitz...  

Just treat me like a potentially decent person until Jan 1. ... pretend we're contemporaries on decent terms, and give me the benefit of the doubt.

Possible?
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 21, 2010, 01:56:38 am
Quote
i'm so confused by that, your reach is sub 8', I forget what exactly, say it's 8' exact, that's 96".. you hit 9'11 with your elbow, if your reach is 96" like mine, then from fingertip to elbow you're looking at 18-19", 119 + 19 = 11'6 aka 138" - 96" reach = 42"... I remember you saying your reach is 7'10 or so, then you're looking at 44".

Interesting.. let me see:

9'11 goal inches: 119"
Reach from floor to elbow: 81"
Vert required to touch elbow to rim - 38

Double checking elbow height... right at 80.75

Am I missing something here?

That's a 38 inch jump... nothing to write home about.




Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 21, 2010, 02:06:11 am
Here's this for kicks.. one is the a screenshot from the vid I showed to Cloud.

Again, I want my first "released" dunk vid to be something I consider respectable... this is good, but not THAT exciting.

You may ask what's the diff between the still shots here, and posting the vid... to me there is a difference.

They'll come out I just don't know when.  I always have these (and many more) for backup if for whatever reason I never am not able to train again.. heaven forbid.



Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: BMully on December 21, 2010, 02:22:02 am
Jacob, I can believe your calim so far(though I did'nt read alot of this stuff, too drawn out)

I think adarq just does not want another claimer that does not follow through

Just get a vid as soon as possible man!! Adarq will send you apology vid, like the one he will send me when I run 11.5(long story)

This thread was so hard to read for some reason, I wish there was a better way to organizes these arguments

I don't actually understand why there is still an argument, Jacob posts a vid of his vert asap and we wait to see if he is a fraud(which I don't think/hope he is) or legit

if you got your arm to rim height, then there should be no problem as to make a vid on anyday....

so when you get back home(i'm guessing your on a trip or something) just make a simple vid with a phone, maybe even email to adarq to post on his channel :)

peace

why can't the fighting stop? Jacob seems more legit that any other program seller to me right know(beside kelly B)

P.S. Is'nt Kelly B posting in this thread? He is a legend!!!! I thought that dude was a master of vertical :) I hope he sees my post and says hi     :highfive:
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 21, 2010, 02:45:11 am
Bmully thanks man...  I have no problem with Adarq, JC, JW, Lance, ABC, or XYZ.

I posted a pic is it not available to everyone?

http://www.jumpmanual.com/jacobdunkpic.jpg (http://www.jumpmanual.com/jacobdunkpic.jpg)
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 21, 2010, 02:47:41 am
Posting a current vid can't prove what I did at age 25...

Not sure what it is supposed to prove actually - that I'm not in the same shape I was at age 25...

Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on December 21, 2010, 03:07:22 am
Quote
i'm so confused by that, your reach is sub 8', I forget what exactly, say it's 8' exact, that's 96".. you hit 9'11 with your elbow, if your reach is 96" like mine, then from fingertip to elbow you're looking at 18-19", 119 + 19 = 11'6 aka 138" - 96" reach = 42"... I remember you saying your reach is 7'10 or so, then you're looking at 44".

Interesting.. let me see:

9'11 goal inches: 119"
Reach from floor to elbow: 81"
Vert required to touch elbow to rim - 38

Double checking elbow height... right at 80.75

Am I missing something here?

That's a 38 inch jump... nothing to write home about.

so your elbow is 81" off the ground, yet your reach is under 8'?

i just measured my reach, ill give you my numbers.. my elbow is 75" off the ground with a 94.5" max single arm reach.. that gives me 19.5" from fingertip to elbow, yet, your reach is 94 - 81, 13" from fingertip to elbow.. 13 inches............

My stats match up pretty good, check this pic from last year, it's 19" from fingertip to elbow: (the numbers on the right were using 96.5" as the standing 1-arm reach)

(http://i390.photobucket.com/albums/oo345/adarqui/measure-3.jpg)

Your elbow, is 5" from the base of my palm, in that pic...

How much you bench ???? :)

You see, I measured my reach in nike zoom waffle racers, not basketball shoes, and that's what i jump in now.. My reach using nike solo flight 1's was 96" at the time, right now it's legit 94.5" completely stretched out in thinner waffles.. My numbers add up perfectly, yours however, are astonishingly odd.. i've never met someone who is 6'4 who has 13" from fingertip to elbow.

Quote
If I can dunk now... we'll I can.. easily.  People see it all the time.  People saw it today at the gym... I'm in Keller, Texas and 3 Jump Manual play pick up games here with me when I'm in town... just randomly met them here.  They saw me do 360 dunks today. I'm 6'3.5 ish with a standing reach of just under 8'.

Ok, say it's 7'11, that's 14" from fingertip to elbow............................

man your numbers don't add up, seriously, no offense.. Don't know how you can explain this one. Maybe you can, I don't see it though, unless somehow mathematics can be debunked.

peace
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on December 21, 2010, 03:10:30 am
Bmully thanks man...  I have no problem with Adarq, JC, JW, Lance, ABC, or XYZ.

I posted a pic is it not available to everyone?

http://www.jumpmanual.com/jacobdunkpic.jpg (http://www.jumpmanual.com/jacobdunkpic.jpg)

nice pic man, would be cool if you posted the video.

that two hander looks nasty, no joke.. really wanna see it.. first one hander looks sick too.

pc
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 21, 2010, 03:26:31 am
Your shorter than me yet we have the same reach..... meaning your arms are LONGER than mine.

I stood straight and put my elbow up and measured it standing straight up and got those measurements.

Keep in mind when you straighten your elbow, the tip of your elbow rotates down, try it and see.

Standing reach to elbow: 80.75... standing reach is just below 8'.

Just think about it man... a 10 foot goal... me at nearly 6'4" with shoes on... head at rim level is 44"...

NOW... elbow over my head (subtract about 5 inches) - even measure that, and it was super awkward...
PLUS... rim lower by one inch... (subtract one inch)
38" jump...


Make sense?

The point of your elbow sticks up so your (elbow reach) + finger tip to elbow... won't equal your standing reach..  When you raise your hand up the point of the elbow shifts down several inches.

This is one conversation I could have never imagined this thread would lead to... and some of the weirdest measurements I have ever done...

I you REALLY want a video showing my standing reach, and my elbow reach AND an explanation of the elbow shifting down... I could possibly make it... but I would feel really silly doing so.

Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 21, 2010, 03:28:43 am
Quote
nice pic man, would be cool if you posted the video.

that two hander looks nasty, no joke.. really wanna see it.. first one hander looks sick too.

Thanks a lot man.  Out of everything I am considering most releasing a vid or so.

I have always held back because I don't want my "prime" to be judged by these "subprime" vids, which is what I believe will happen.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on December 21, 2010, 03:32:17 am
Your shorter than me yet we have the same reach..... meaning your arms are LONGER than mine.

I stood straight and put my elbow up and measured it standing straight up and got those measurements.

Keep in mind when you straighten your elbow, the tip of your elbow rotates down, try it and see.

Standing reach to elbow: 80.75... standing reach is just below 8'.

Just think about it man... a 10 foot goal... me at nearly 6'4" with shoes on... head at rim level is 44"...

NOW... elbow over my head (subtract about 5 inches) - even measure that, and it was super awkward...
PLUS... rim lower by one inch... (subtract one inch)
38" jump...


Make sense?

The point of your elbow sticks up so your (elbow reach) + finger tip to elbow... won't equal your standing reach..  When you raise your hand up the point of the elbow shifts down several inches.

This is one conversation I could have never imagined this thread would lead to... and some of the weirdest measurements I have ever done...

I you REALLY want a video showing my standing reach, and my elbow reach AND an explanation of the elbow shifting down... I could possibly make it... but I would feel really silly doing so.



sure, make the reach video, because what you just typed makes no sense..

95" reach - 81" elbow = 14" from fingertip to elbow.

you can't debate that..

If your elbow was 81" and your standing reach was 100" (9'4), then it would make perfect sense.

So, this picture off your facebook, is 14" from fingertip to elbow?

(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs082.snc1/4561_668239495709_17819119_37842945_4007477_n.jpg)

Just to clarify, this is about 13-14" from fingertip to elbow:

(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ2KhvPSO1inaO1GxCKJNcXeRNH9DmW4TVi4bR2eMqc03OD0zJRvg)

I doubt my arms are much longer than yours, they are definitely skinnier though:

(http://i54.tinypic.com/i5432f.png)

peace
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 21, 2010, 03:35:36 am
IN the first pic (1 hander) I actually pulled my groin during take off, and was out for a 2 weeks.

I was all pumped up without a warm up, and started showing off cause I felt pretty good... I limp off after wards in the vid and try and act like I'm not hurt... still put it down though.

That's what happens with you train intermittently... and don't warm up.


Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Raptor on December 21, 2010, 03:37:57 am
I challenge Hiller to this:

Since Squatflex™ is such a great product and you can take it everywhere, I suggest him starting to use SF to get his vert back to 44. Use it, film it, get to 44, videotape that, and if that happens (and of course, it will), I'm sure adarqui will write a "mea culpa" thread and shut the hell up.

Oh, and the rest of the forum and every and each SF hater on the planet.

PS. I think a cool think to do marketing wise is to actually minimize your vert. If I were to promote my product, like a SF, then I'd jump 20 inches and record it. Then I'd record myself training with my machine for say 4 weeks and then jump 32 inches. See, it worked! 12 inches in 4 weeks!
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: tychver on December 21, 2010, 03:49:43 am
I've tried measuring standing elbow reach and standing reach and got just under 18" difference. I'm only 5'8 too.

Trying to measure like that should give you a huge difference as there's no way you can push your elbow as high as you can with a straightened arm. Your arm would have to be in the middle of your head....
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 21, 2010, 03:56:23 am
Raptor, did you read the whole thread, not sure if you get what I believe to be the best use of Squat Flex.

I state the best use of SF... I've actually challenged my dad to make me a more portable version of Squat Flex (for Xmas) so I can keep it in my suit case and use it to make progress on the road, combined with body weight stuff.

Adarq man... I just posted a long stinking explanation of the "elbow controversy" and this thing logged me out again and I lost it ... grrr..

anyways... the gest was this...

maybe there is confusion because elbow is a different height when bent and when straight.

My standing elbow height (with bent arm) 80.75"
My Finger tip to elbow 19 (almost)"
So my reach should be 100 right?

NO.. here's why...

When you straighten your arm the tip of the elbow shifts down about 3 or so inches.

This puts the numbers right... given a bit of difference for stretching out the arm... (give or take an inch).

Does this make sense?  If it doesn't maybe I can kick out a VLOG.. but this whole thread is eating my life.. haha

Certainly this makes sense... and shows that couldn't have been a 44" jump.

Just think about it man... a 10 foot goal... me at nearly 6'4" with shoes on... head at rim level is 44"...

Quote
NOW... elbow over my head (subtract about 5 inches) - even measure that, and it was super awkward...
PLUS... rim lower by one inch... (subtract one inch)
38" jump...
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 21, 2010, 04:00:21 am
Lol -

looked at a blog post my wife made...

http://jacobandkalli.blogspot.com/2010/11/christmas-is-coming.html

It shows one of my list items as a "portable Squat Flex" requested from my dad... who can make anything.

Like I mentioned before, I would like to have it to do some lifts when we're on the road for days, weeks, or months on end without seeing a gym.

Quote
Jacob would like a portable squat flex (Al Hiller), and a portable green screen for videos. And 4 to 6 of the bands:

If that doesn't convince you guys that I'm sincere about... that pure band tension can be of use, and convenient... it should.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: DamienZ on December 21, 2010, 04:17:02 am
When you straighten your arm the tip of the elbow shifts down about 3 or so inches.

wtf are you talking about? are you some king of mutant with shifting elbows?
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 21, 2010, 04:24:53 am
lol - yes... we all are.

I'm going to have to make a vid... but shouldn't we take this post elsewhere, this topic is getting bizarre.

I propose a topic move to a "mutant elbow" forum, where we dig into this thing!
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: heh on December 21, 2010, 04:31:27 am
(http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn220/speakers4u/1292428603632.jpg)

brb mighty morphin elbow rangers
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on December 21, 2010, 04:35:39 am
o, ok, that makes sense.

brain death.

vvv_____________v_________________v_______________________________________________________________

pc, squatting!
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 21, 2010, 04:49:22 am
hahah....

Adarq... confirm your serious so I don't have to make the crazy elbow vid.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on December 21, 2010, 04:52:21 am
hahah....

Adarq... confirm your serious so I don't have to make the crazy elbow vid.

i was kidding lol :)

everyone i talked to on this chat thing, got a higher elbow measurement with single arm reach than by extending the elbow up flexed... lol

peace mang
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 21, 2010, 04:59:35 am
Just an FYI... I'm a bit from all the defending... and need a bit of a hiatus from defending from all the skepticism... it's warranted I just have been defending for like 48 hours straight hahaha

My post volume is going to go way down, at least for a bit - need to refuel on some positive stuff.  

I'm still considering seriously what we're talking about... releasing my dunk vids... being silent about any past performances...

If I could ask a favor, it would just be to give me some "benefit of the doubt" I probably poke around in the forums.  A bit interested in the "daily squat" tests that adarq did... recently stumbled upon a gym that is all about daily maxing out, and straight up doesn't believe in over training... (anyways... another forum topic here)

Some really good articles on this forum... especially from Lance, Adarq... and some great participation by tons of people.

This is definitely one of the more active and knowledgeable forums... not sure but TVS seems to have slowed down... alse seems like everyone from there is now here!

Sounds like some "freak out" post slowed it down, and I'm super curious to see that!  "link?"

Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 21, 2010, 05:04:36 am
Freak!.. I thought you really got it.

Quote
got a higher elbow measurement with single arm reach than by extending the elbow up flexed

This is exactly my point.... I touched the rim to my elbow WITH it bent. 

My BER (bent elbow reach) is 81"

Did you think my SAEH (straight arm elbow height) was 81"?

My straight arm elbow height is more around 77-78"

Is this making sense? 

seriously laughing...
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 21, 2010, 05:09:50 am
Freak now I'm confused...

HAHAHHA

My elbow is above my head!

The rim was below 10 feet.

It couldn't have possibly been a 44 inch jump...

I'd have to get head level for that...

LOL, can we drop the elbow thing?  What the heck is happening to this thread.

I can make a video of my standing reach, and my standing bent elbow reach... but ... my elbow is above my head lol... so it can't possibly be a friggin 44" jump... dagum it.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on December 21, 2010, 05:17:12 am
Just an FYI... I'm a bit from all the defending... and need a bit of a hiatus from defending from all the skepticism... it's warranted I just have been defending for like 48 hours straight hahaha

My post volume is going to go way down, at least for a bit - need to refuel on some positive stuff.  

it's all good man. Your forum work capacity is just a bit low ;0 You might be experiencing some overreaching symptoms.



Quote
I'm still considering seriously what we're talking about... releasing my dunk vids... being silent about any past performances...

If I could ask a favor, it would just be to give me some "benefit of the doubt" I probably poke around in the forums.  A bit interested in the "daily squat" tests that adarq did... recently stumbled upon a gym that is all about daily maxing out, and straight up doesn't believe in over training... (anyways... another forum topic here)

Some really good articles on this forum... especially from Lance, Adarq... and some great participation by tons of people.

This is definitely one of the more active and knowledgeable forums... not sure but TVS seems to have slowed down... alse seems like everyone from there is now here!

thanks man, feel free to stick around on the other parts of the forum, call em out is always here so defend yourself whenever you feel da strenf.

Quote
Sounds like some "freak out" post slowed it down, and I'm super curious to see that!  "link?"

hm?

peace
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 21, 2010, 05:21:11 am
Freak lol, it's 4 am...

And I almost wrote the stupidest post ever recorded... I'm going to bed.

I'll probably have a nightmare of a mutant elbow.

----

Freakout post by RIP?  Read in another thread.

My forum post skillz are very low...

BUT I make up for it with mad elbow morphology, and reverse elbow flexology.

Thanks... when I get the strenf I'll be around...
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 21, 2010, 05:23:27 am
I still managed to rack up 89 posts in like 68 hours... that's over a post an hour, AND made Junior Member.

But I don't have video of it.. so I'll just pretend it didn't happen... and I can't that "feat" to promote my next book "The Forum Manual"

... but you're all witnesses.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on December 21, 2010, 05:27:31 am
Freak lol, it's 4 am...

And I almost wrote the stupidest post ever recorded... I'm going to bed.

I'll probably have a nightmare of a mutant elbow.

----

Freakout post by RIP?  Read in another thread.

My forum post skillz are very low...

BUT I make up for it with mad elbow morphology, and reverse elbow flexology.

Thanks... when I get the strenf I'll be around...



I still managed to rack up 89 posts in like 68 hours... that's over a post an hour, AND made Junior Member.

But I don't have video of it.. so I'll just pretend it didn't happen...  but you're all witnesses.

both of those posts are pretty funny, i lol'd.. you're funnier at 4am than earlier on in the day.. lololol

now i remember the rip freakout post, i told him not to do that but he did anyway, the number he claimed on that jump was too high, knew everyone would lay into him lol.

pc
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 21, 2010, 05:33:49 am
haha, can you link to that post?

I might get some comfort from seeing someone else get ripped into.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on December 21, 2010, 05:46:14 am
haha, can you link to that post?

I might get some comfort from seeing someone else get ripped into.

http://theverticalsummit.com/viewtopic.php?t=5652&start=0

sorry ripp, u ma dog.

that thread is nothing though, read the WGF LDISO threads: http://wgfforum.llsint.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=638

Check the Jay Schroeder Call-Em-Out thread on here first though, it'll allow you to laugh more.

peace
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: John Stamos on December 21, 2010, 11:01:37 pm
http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/product/index.jsp?productId=10793623&cp=2367438.2367453.2622932

http://www.flexcart.com/members/elitefts/default.asp?cid=138

i cant find the deadlift platform since i remember they put it in a weird spot, but those weights+deadlift platform+bands is under 300 dollars roughly(without shipping ik) but even then as long as u can do the bands u can get whatever tension you want and a real workout unlike the squat flex.

and of course everyone cares about

"portability" i just see it as idc if it s portable, if im somewhere that i cant workout its usually a vacation so i dont want to workout anyway.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on December 21, 2010, 11:10:02 pm
http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/product/index.jsp?productId=10793623&cp=2367438.2367453.2622932

http://www.flexcart.com/members/elitefts/default.asp?cid=138

i cant find the deadlift platform since i remember they put it in a weird spot, but those weights+deadlift platform+bands is under 300 dollars roughly(without shipping ik) but even then as long as u can do the bands u can get whatever tension you want and a real workout unlike the squat flex.

and of course everyone cares about

are their dick's sporting good retail stores? Down here we have Sports Authority, I got my 300 lb barbell set years back for $150, cool to see something similar finally with this $169 link.. good find.



Quote
"portability" i just see it as idc if it s portable, if im somewhere that i cant workout its usually a vacation so i dont want to workout anyway.

agree, if it's extended travel i'm finding facilities.. if there are no facilities, i'm going Milo style and squatting calfs (baby cows) for reps.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Zetz on December 21, 2010, 11:12:48 pm
http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/product/index.jsp?productId=10793623&cp=2367438.2367453.2622932

http://www.flexcart.com/members/elitefts/default.asp?cid=138

i cant find the deadlift platform since i remember they put it in a weird spot, but those weights+deadlift platform+bands is under 300 dollars roughly(without shipping ik) but even then as long as u can do the bands u can get whatever tension you want and a real workout unlike the squat flex.

and of course everyone cares about

are their dick's sporting good retail stores? Down here we have Sports Authority, I got my 300 lb barbell set years back for $150, cool to see something similar finally with this $169 link.. good find.



Quote
"portability" i just see it as idc if it s portable, if im somewhere that i cant workout its usually a vacation so i dont want to workout anyway.

agree, if it's extended travel i'm finding facilities.. if there are no facilities, i'm going Milo style and squatting calfs (baby cows) for reps.


Haha. What a boss.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: heh on December 22, 2010, 03:43:05 am
(http://i52.tinypic.com/16lgscx.png%5B/IMG%5D)


wait wut?

(http://i52.tinypic.com/ubsdt.png)

Your elbow shifts at night, it transforms into the red elbow ranger magically brah? WHat ?! I cant HEAR YOU!

WHAT!!!! MY DOUGIE


Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on December 22, 2010, 03:48:30 am
I take offense to the above post, will not quote due to my utter disgust with it.

Let it be known, that my elbow, is my life.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Flander on December 22, 2010, 03:53:33 am
I take offense to the above post, will not quote due to my utter disgust with it.

Let it be known, that my elbow, is my life.

lol lol lol

Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: John Stamos on December 22, 2010, 02:11:51 pm
awkward pics anyway yeah in my area within 20 mins away theres 2 DSGs and 1 sports authority and i think 1 in syracuse possibly about 25-30 mins away

the deadlift platform can be seen in most of the elitefts videos  ithink the conventional one was 80 bucks and the sumo was a bit more, but they built it to use the short bands on them
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 22, 2010, 07:48:30 pm
Friggin elbow discussion... my elbow is 5 inches above my head... and my head is about 76 inches... = 81 inches...

9'11 rim... 119 inches...

119 - 81 = 38" jump!

Dagum sombbiskit....

Of course in cases of a full moon, the elbow measurement are an entirely different animal... literally.

---

Those are decent prices on the...  a deadlift platform that could slide under a bed / easily stow away would be decent...

IMO the people buying the barbells and the plates are never going to by SF, and are people who I work with to get awesome setups with accommodating resistance etc..

But this is all besides the point... 

I now promote Home Depot EXCLUSIVELY.

Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 22, 2010, 07:57:44 pm
Quote
agree, if it's extended travel i'm finding facilities.. if there are no facilities, i'm going Milo style and squatting calfs (baby cows) for reps.

Last 2 years I live in one country for 1 - 2 months and move.

AND many countries have horrible and sparse facilities...

Morroco was tough... Jerusalem, some of the Greek Islands... Turkey... Some areas of India... Ghana...  Macedonia...

And they are always much more expensive... then there is transportation to them...

Not to mention the varying diets.

Being on the road all over American, and in countries all over I realized how lucky we are in American to have amazing-enormous facitlites... cheap, and on every other corner.

And find a "Dicks Sporting Goods, Sporting Authority etc...) no friggin way...

In Greece I made my own pully system, and attached it to my luggage to have convenient access to some dynamic resistance. 

Then I also filled water jugs to use...

In India t was sooooooooo friggin hot (outdoor facility)... amazing.  My shoes were dripping, and i literally left puddles standing there.  Ended up losing too much water / electrolytes and taking a huge hit in strength.

In morocco gym equipment was cloth... so the sweat of 15 years was soaked into it... and there was no lights in the place [correction VERY sparse lighting]... it was awesome... there's a brotherhood of iron and a sense of fraternity all over the world.

Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: LanceSTS on December 22, 2010, 09:32:06 pm

But this is all besides the point... 

I now promote Home Depot EXCLUSIVELY.



Glad to hear that, I respect that man. pc. 
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Zetz on December 22, 2010, 11:10:31 pm
Is it weird that my elbow is lower than the top of my head?
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: JelloPuddinPup on December 22, 2010, 11:18:06 pm
Is it weird that my elbow is lower than the top of my head?

Yes, you're an absolute freak.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Zetz on December 23, 2010, 12:00:52 am
Just wondering, because everyone else's seems to be over.

BMULLY- Knock it off. That's getting pretty annoying.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on December 23, 2010, 12:31:34 am
Friggin elbow discussion... my elbow is 5 inches above my head... and my head is about 76 inches... = 81 inches...

9'11 rim... 119 inches...

119 - 81 = 38" jump!

Dagum sombbiskit....

Of course in cases of a full moon, the elbow measurement are an entirely different animal... literally.

---

Those are decent prices on the...  a deadlift platform that could slide under a bed / easily stow away would be decent...

IMO the people buying the barbells and the plates are never going to by SF, and are people who I work with to get awesome setups with accommodating resistance etc..

well whatever it is, 38" is very high and much respect on that.



Quote
But this is all besides the point...  

I now promote Home Depot EXCLUSIVELY.


this is serious or .. ??

if it is, that's pretty interesting.. homeDepotFlex is MUCH cheaper than squatflex, and just as effective, bands are the same price, platform is 490$ cheaper, so if you're serious that you have stopped promoting squatflex, then that's pretty awesome.. people can now spend all of that saved money on some OTHER nice tools like vests, blast straps, chinup door device, among other things..

mad props if srs..

pc
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Zetz on December 23, 2010, 01:09:50 am
I bought my chinup bar at Ross for $10.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 23, 2010, 01:18:12 am
Quote
Is it weird that my elbow is lower than the top of my head?

See a doctor asap bro..

Freak this elbow thing is killin...

Quote
this is serious or .. ??

if it is, that's pretty interesting.. homeDepotFlex is MUCH cheaper than squatflex, and just as effective, bands are the same price, platform is 490$ cheaper, so if you're serious that you have stopped promoting squatflex, then that's pretty awesome.. people can now spend all of that saved money on some OTHER nice tools like vests, blast straps, chinup door device, among other things..

mad props if srs..

Homedepotflex.. I'm seriously lolling...

No I'm joking... I actually have a Jump Manual user who went ahead and just made a Squat Flex...  
I still feel the same way about Squat Flex....

Let's not go back into it... we pretty much talked about the same thing over and over...


The pricing objection is a valid question...  at $497 that's a lot of money.... $297 promo period is lower but still...

To be honest, my biggest problem with associating with Squat Flex is the stigma that associated with it... the hype etc... you guys know how I really feel about supplementing body weight stuff with pure band tension.

I'm keeping my mind very open about the entire thing...

I don't want to open a can of worms with my next comment ... so go easy on it (if possible).

There's a lot of hypey dudes out there that you guys call out on your "call em out" section.

But through the hype I actually like some of their material.  To me being a consumer period is about filtering through the hype, and emotional marketing and finding what does or doesn't have value.

Taylor Alan, Alex Maroko, John Ewing, Adam L., Eric Cressey... to name a few... guys you have called out... I think they have some good stuff.

When and if I promote their stuff I almost always hire someone to change their promotional material because it's not my taste, but the content is stuff I like.

Anyways... I don't want to open a can of worms there, and I don't want to argue about those guys or their stuff, so let's not get into another 10 pages of debate about that...  

Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: LanceSTS on December 23, 2010, 01:39:52 am
   :uhhhfacepalm:  Man, I sure hope lots of kids dont end up with back injuries this Christmas from their new "presents". 
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on December 23, 2010, 01:42:46 am
   :uhhhfacepalm:  Man, I sure hope lots of kids dont end up with back injuries this Christmas from their new "presents". 

I agree, I think squatflex should come with a "lifelong membership" to a chiropractic/PT office. Not only are these parents WASTING way too much money on a piece of crap product, their kids will most likely suffer some kind of spinal injury due to overzealous youngsters messing around with WAY too much band tension.

I dno, all-n-all, it's a travesty that anyone would promote that junk..

 :uhhhfacepalm:
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 23, 2010, 01:43:35 am
So you think SF is more dangerous becuase the resistance curve is so steep, or because you think the kids are unexperienced lifters?

I guess it's true that I do prefer and recommend the deadlift variations and not the hack squat.

I also recommend using straps to protect the toes.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: LanceSTS on December 23, 2010, 01:44:34 am
   :uhhhfacepalm:  Man, I sure hope lots of kids dont end up with back injuries this Christmas from their new "presents". 

I agree, I think squatflex should come with a "lifelong membership" to a chiropractic/PT office. Not only are these parents WASTING way too much money on a piece of crap product, their kids will most likely suffer some kind of spinal injury due to overzealous youngsters messing around with WAY too much band tension.

I dno, all-n-all, it's a travesty that anyone would promote that junk..

 :uhhhfacepalm:

Yep, get hurt, get broke, get SQUATFLEXED   :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm:
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 23, 2010, 01:44:53 am
BTW - I just became a full member by racking 107 posts, so ... definitely watch your back.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on December 23, 2010, 01:47:11 am
   :uhhhfacepalm:  Man, I sure hope lots of kids dont end up with back injuries this Christmas from their new "presents". 

I agree, I think squatflex should come with a "lifelong membership" to a chiropractic/PT office. Not only are these parents WASTING way too much money on a piece of crap product, their kids will most likely suffer some kind of spinal injury due to overzealous youngsters messing around with WAY too much band tension.

I dno, all-n-all, it's a travesty that anyone would promote that junk..

 :uhhhfacepalm:

Yep, get hurt, get broke, get SQUATFLEXED   :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm:

lol, you put that very well.. What's next, squatflex-shakeweight? Squatflex on a vibration platform?

Imagine a kid opening his present for x-mas, and it's a squatflex, little does he know that it's going to ruin his back for years to come.. Parent's don't know that either.. So, a $497 piece of junk will end up costing well over $2000 once injuries accumulate..

why anyone would promote that garbage is beyond me but whatever.. Some people promote AIDS, it's called bugchasing, same shit.

pc
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 23, 2010, 01:51:03 am
When they start out learning proper alignment, keeping the back neutral / straight, using higher reps and focus on form... then gradually increase resistance as form improves.  Learn technique, then gradually increase resistance...

I don't think it's any more dangerous then teaching then learning to squat... perhaps less dangerous.  I've seen some epic fails from newby squatters.

Anyways, we disagree... no biggie.  Let's not crank it out for 10 pages, unless you really want to.

I'm open to being wrong about this... the best points about this topic have been about pricing and alternatives... From my point of view.

I sure hope we don't revive this and go over the same 10 pages again.

Agree to disagree, resent me a bit, and JC call me a liar and a moron, then let's move on.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: LanceSTS on December 23, 2010, 01:54:26 am
   :uhhhfacepalm:  Man, I sure hope lots of kids dont end up with back injuries this Christmas from their new "presents". 

I agree, I think squatflex should come with a "lifelong membership" to a chiropractic/PT office. Not only are these parents WASTING way too much money on a piece of crap product, their kids will most likely suffer some kind of spinal injury due to overzealous youngsters messing around with WAY too much band tension.

I dno, all-n-all, it's a travesty that anyone would promote that junk..

 :uhhhfacepalm:

Yep, get hurt, get broke, get SQUATFLEXED   :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm:

lol, you put that very well.. What's next, squatflex-shakeweight? Squatflex on a vibration platform?

Imagine a kid opening his present for x-mas, and it's a squatflex, little does he know that it's going to ruin his back for years to come.. Parent's don't know that either.. So, a $497 piece of junk will end up costing well over $2000 once injuries accumulate..

why anyone would promote that garbage is beyond me but whatever.. Some people promote AIDS, it's called bugchasing, same shit.

pc


Exactly man, I cant imagine anyone that would seriously consider that piece of trash after knowing all of the ridiculous things associated with its concepts.  ITs OVERPRICED, DANGEROUS, USELESS, and there are TONS of MUCH MUCH BETTER ALTERNATVES that wont, injure a kid, cause you to not make the rent, and arent associated with internet SCAMMERS.  it baffles me man, hope some of those kids get to read this before they get squatflexed out of training.   :uhhhfacepalm:
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on December 23, 2010, 01:56:56 am
   :uhhhfacepalm:  Man, I sure hope lots of kids dont end up with back injuries this Christmas from their new "presents". 

I agree, I think squatflex should come with a "lifelong membership" to a chiropractic/PT office. Not only are these parents WASTING way too much money on a piece of crap product, their kids will most likely suffer some kind of spinal injury due to overzealous youngsters messing around with WAY too much band tension.

I dno, all-n-all, it's a travesty that anyone would promote that junk..

 :uhhhfacepalm:

Yep, get hurt, get broke, get SQUATFLEXED   :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm:

lol, you put that very well.. What's next, squatflex-shakeweight? Squatflex on a vibration platform?

Imagine a kid opening his present for x-mas, and it's a squatflex, little does he know that it's going to ruin his back for years to come.. Parent's don't know that either.. So, a $497 piece of junk will end up costing well over $2000 once injuries accumulate..

why anyone would promote that garbage is beyond me but whatever.. Some people promote AIDS, it's called bugchasing, same shit.

pc


Exactly man, I cant imagine anyone that would seriously consider that piece of trash after knowing all of the ridiculous things associated with its concepts.  ITs OVERPRICED, DANGEROUS, USELESS, and there are TONS of MUCH MUCH BETTER ALTERNATVES that wont, injure a kid, cause you to not make the rent, and arent associated with internet SCAMMERS.  it baffles me man, hope some of those kids get to read this before they get squatflexed out of training.   :uhhhfacepalm:

i'd love to get Maroko, A-link, etc on here, to help explain why they only promote squatflex during the holiday's, similar to how Hiller did..

I find it funny that it's ONLY promoted during x-mas season, and then these people turn around and tell us that x-mas season has nothing to do with it, you kidding me?

lol shit cracks me up yet pisses me off.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: LanceSTS on December 23, 2010, 02:03:20 am
   :uhhhfacepalm:  Man, I sure hope lots of kids dont end up with back injuries this Christmas from their new "presents". 

I agree, I think squatflex should come with a "lifelong membership" to a chiropractic/PT office. Not only are these parents WASTING way too much money on a piece of crap product, their kids will most likely suffer some kind of spinal injury due to overzealous youngsters messing around with WAY too much band tension.

I dno, all-n-all, it's a travesty that anyone would promote that junk..

 :uhhhfacepalm:

Yep, get hurt, get broke, get SQUATFLEXED   :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm:

lol, you put that very well.. What's next, squatflex-shakeweight? Squatflex on a vibration platform?

Imagine a kid opening his present for x-mas, and it's a squatflex, little does he know that it's going to ruin his back for years to come.. Parent's don't know that either.. So, a $497 piece of junk will end up costing well over $2000 once injuries accumulate..

why anyone would promote that garbage is beyond me but whatever.. Some people promote AIDS, it's called bugchasing, same shit.

pc


Exactly man, I cant imagine anyone that would seriously consider that piece of trash after knowing all of the ridiculous things associated with its concepts.  ITs OVERPRICED, DANGEROUS, USELESS, and there are TONS of MUCH MUCH BETTER ALTERNATVES that wont, injure a kid, cause you to not make the rent, and arent associated with internet SCAMMERS.  it baffles me man, hope some of those kids get to read this before they get squatflexed out of training.   :uhhhfacepalm:

i'd love to get Maroko, A-link, etc on here, to help explain why they only promote squatflex during the holiday's, similar to how Hiller did..

I find it funny that it's ONLY promoted during x-mas season, and then these people turn around and tell us that x-mas season has nothing to do with it, you kidding me?

lol shit cracks me up yet pisses me off.


Yep, me too bro. theyre misleading kids, ripping people off, and setting them up for failure and injuries, and they claim theyre OPEN MINDED, yet listen to NOTHING, regardless of how badly their point has been proven ridiculous. True colors shine through in the end man, money talks more than "sense"  ;D to those people.  Maybe one day they will change and try to actually HELP the same kids theyve made their living off of instead of trying to sell them the next jumpusa gimmick. I wont hold my breath tho.  :uhhhfacepalm:
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 23, 2010, 02:05:40 am
Adarq - I don't really understand the hoopla about timing.

To me when I believe in product.. mine or anyone elses... I try and do the best promotion possible... and ethical, value driven promotion.

And while I didn't think about "timing" for the SF launch... if I had, I don't think it would have made any difference.

I believe in my own product, and I promote it as best I can... I believe it provides serious value and thus I don't have any shame in promoting and marketing ethically and to the best of my ability.

To me your beef shouldn't be with some timing... there's not problem with timing a good promo... the catch for you and others here is you think it's not worth promoting... so the timing is just the "icing" on the cake.

If I'm missing your point let me know.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on December 23, 2010, 02:12:13 am
   :uhhhfacepalm:  Man, I sure hope lots of kids dont end up with back injuries this Christmas from their new "presents". 

I agree, I think squatflex should come with a "lifelong membership" to a chiropractic/PT office. Not only are these parents WASTING way too much money on a piece of crap product, their kids will most likely suffer some kind of spinal injury due to overzealous youngsters messing around with WAY too much band tension.

I dno, all-n-all, it's a travesty that anyone would promote that junk..

 :uhhhfacepalm:

Yep, get hurt, get broke, get SQUATFLEXED   :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm:

lol, you put that very well.. What's next, squatflex-shakeweight? Squatflex on a vibration platform?

Imagine a kid opening his present for x-mas, and it's a squatflex, little does he know that it's going to ruin his back for years to come.. Parent's don't know that either.. So, a $497 piece of junk will end up costing well over $2000 once injuries accumulate..

why anyone would promote that garbage is beyond me but whatever.. Some people promote AIDS, it's called bugchasing, same shit.

pc


Exactly man, I cant imagine anyone that would seriously consider that piece of trash after knowing all of the ridiculous things associated with its concepts.  ITs OVERPRICED, DANGEROUS, USELESS, and there are TONS of MUCH MUCH BETTER ALTERNATVES that wont, injure a kid, cause you to not make the rent, and arent associated with internet SCAMMERS.  it baffles me man, hope some of those kids get to read this before they get squatflexed out of training.   :uhhhfacepalm:

i'd love to get Maroko, A-link, etc on here, to help explain why they only promote squatflex during the holiday's, similar to how Hiller did..

I find it funny that it's ONLY promoted during x-mas season, and then these people turn around and tell us that x-mas season has nothing to do with it, you kidding me?

lol shit cracks me up yet pisses me off.


Yep, me too bro. theyre misleading kids, ripping people off, and setting them up for failure and injuries, and they claim theyre OPEN MINDED, yet listen to NOTHING, regardless of how badly their point has been proven ridiculous. True colors shine through in the end man, money talks more than "sense"  ;D to those people.  Maybe one day they will change and try to actually HELP the same kids theyve made their living off of instead of trying to sell them the next jumpusa gimmick. I wont hold my breath tho.  :uhhhfacepalm:

exactly.. it's funny when people claim they are "open", get disproven/smashed, then continue the same old stuff.. These people say, "well my clients don't want to goto a gym!!!" etc, how are you HELPING them if you:

1. enable their "weak fortitude" with a piece of crap
2. increase their risk of injury greatly
3. take way too much money out of their pocket, which could be used to purchase more effective equipment/gym membership etc

all these people are doing, is praying on the "weak sheep", instead of guiding them to the promise land, of REAL effective training..

i guess that's what makes us different than the squatflex promoters, when we see sheep, we try to guide them in the right direction, turn them into wolves, and eventually honey badgers.. people who promote squatflex to them, are just trying to keep them as sheep, keep them down, keep them from achieving their dreams..

that's my take on it.

pc
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 23, 2010, 02:15:47 am
Quote
and they claim theyre OPEN MINDED, yet listen to NOTHING, regardless of how badly their point has been proven ridiculous.

I'm assuming that is about me, since I have been the subject from the beginning... correct me if I'm oversensitive on that comment.

But I don't think you'd believe anyone was open minded unless we changed our minds.

From this thread I have had multiple people contact me... and even in this forum and say that my stance make sense.

I've also been told that this is not exactly a place for an unbiased open argument.

I'll leave it to the reader to make up his own mind... but if he doesn't agree with you guys he's probably not going to write it here... why... becuase he'll be called a moron, etc...  I'll probably get more emails, or facebook messages about it.

I really don't want to rehash this whole thing.. it's all here in the last 10 pages.

My views, your views...  accusations, insults...  rational minds will check it out and decide.  If they think I'm wrong, I can live with that...

Holding the idea that your idea is the only one that is not moronic... is a bit naive.  People have different opinions, and not everyone is as "suspect" as you might want them to be.

This topic ain't over.. but for now it is.  You've given me things to think about... and I... have evidently give you NONE to think about, so let it ride like that for a bit.  I'm sure we'll revisit and see where it's at.

IF you disagree with me, say why, be respectful, move on.

Anyways...



Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: LanceSTS on December 23, 2010, 02:20:14 am
   :uhhhfacepalm:  Man, I sure hope lots of kids dont end up with back injuries this Christmas from their new "presents". 

I agree, I think squatflex should come with a "lifelong membership" to a chiropractic/PT office. Not only are these parents WASTING way too much money on a piece of crap product, their kids will most likely suffer some kind of spinal injury due to overzealous youngsters messing around with WAY too much band tension.

I dno, all-n-all, it's a travesty that anyone would promote that junk..

 :uhhhfacepalm:

Yep, get hurt, get broke, get SQUATFLEXED   :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm:

lol, you put that very well.. What's next, squatflex-shakeweight? Squatflex on a vibration platform?

Imagine a kid opening his present for x-mas, and it's a squatflex, little does he know that it's going to ruin his back for years to come.. Parent's don't know that either.. So, a $497 piece of junk will end up costing well over $2000 once injuries accumulate..

why anyone would promote that garbage is beyond me but whatever.. Some people promote AIDS, it's called bugchasing, same shit.

pc


Exactly man, I cant imagine anyone that would seriously consider that piece of trash after knowing all of the ridiculous things associated with its concepts.  ITs OVERPRICED, DANGEROUS, USELESS, and there are TONS of MUCH MUCH BETTER ALTERNATVES that wont, injure a kid, cause you to not make the rent, and arent associated with internet SCAMMERS.  it baffles me man, hope some of those kids get to read this before they get squatflexed out of training.   :uhhhfacepalm:

i'd love to get Maroko, A-link, etc on here, to help explain why they only promote squatflex during the holiday's, similar to how Hiller did..

I find it funny that it's ONLY promoted during x-mas season, and then these people turn around and tell us that x-mas season has nothing to do with it, you kidding me?

lol shit cracks me up yet pisses me off.


Yep, me too bro. theyre misleading kids, ripping people off, and setting them up for failure and injuries, and they claim theyre OPEN MINDED, yet listen to NOTHING, regardless of how badly their point has been proven ridiculous. True colors shine through in the end man, money talks more than "sense"  ;D to those people.  Maybe one day they will change and try to actually HELP the same kids theyve made their living off of instead of trying to sell them the next jumpusa gimmick. I wont hold my breath tho.  :uhhhfacepalm:

exactly.. it's funny when people claim they are "open", get disproven/smashed, then continue the same old stuff.. These people say, "well my clients don't want to goto a gym!!!" etc, how are you HELPING them if you:

1. enable their "weak fortitude" with a piece of crap
2. increase their risk of injury greatly
3. take way too much money out of their pocket, which could be used to purchase more effective equipment/gym membership etc

all these people are doing, is praying on the "weak sheep", instead of guiding them to the promise land, of REAL effective training..

i guess that's what makes us different than the squatflex promoters, when we see sheep, we try to guide them in the right direction, turn them into wolves, and eventually honey badgers.. people who promote squatflex to them, are just trying to keep them as sheep, keep them down, keep them from achieving their dreams..

that's my take on it.

pc

Great analogy man, dead on with that one.  I get dissapointed in myself for actually thinking that they might be "open minded" only to see the truth come through, theyre manipulators.  People who manipulate are worse than the people who just say "fuck you guys im gonna get these kids to spend cCRAZY money so i can get PAID" .  Takes one hell of a person to mislead a kid thats putting their trust and dreams into something they say, then mislead them down a dead end road over some fucking money.  Wonder how many trash, overpriced, scammer made products Zatsiorsky, Siff, and Verk promoted back in the day. BRB, checking the books.  :uhhhfacepalm:
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 23, 2010, 02:22:08 am
Quote
These people say, "well my clients don't want to goto a gym!!!" etc, how are you HELPING them if you:

These people?  

Quote
when we see sheep, we try to guide them in the right direction, turn them into wolves, and eventually honey badgers..

This comment alone almost change my mind about the entire thing.

You guys are under the impression that you're the only trainer on the block who want to help their athletes.  The saviors of S&C.  I appreciate what you do... but...

You can't seem to handle or accept when someone disagrees with you.  All of a sudden the whole thing goes moral.  Necessarily - It's practically religious.

I don't want to go much further.  I respect your opinions... (except for the ones being a moron) ;)
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on December 23, 2010, 02:26:44 am
   :uhhhfacepalm:  Man, I sure hope lots of kids dont end up with back injuries this Christmas from their new "presents". 

I agree, I think squatflex should come with a "lifelong membership" to a chiropractic/PT office. Not only are these parents WASTING way too much money on a piece of crap product, their kids will most likely suffer some kind of spinal injury due to overzealous youngsters messing around with WAY too much band tension.

I dno, all-n-all, it's a travesty that anyone would promote that junk..

 :uhhhfacepalm:

Yep, get hurt, get broke, get SQUATFLEXED   :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm:

lol, you put that very well.. What's next, squatflex-shakeweight? Squatflex on a vibration platform?

Imagine a kid opening his present for x-mas, and it's a squatflex, little does he know that it's going to ruin his back for years to come.. Parent's don't know that either.. So, a $497 piece of junk will end up costing well over $2000 once injuries accumulate..

why anyone would promote that garbage is beyond me but whatever.. Some people promote AIDS, it's called bugchasing, same shit.

pc


Exactly man, I cant imagine anyone that would seriously consider that piece of trash after knowing all of the ridiculous things associated with its concepts.  ITs OVERPRICED, DANGEROUS, USELESS, and there are TONS of MUCH MUCH BETTER ALTERNATVES that wont, injure a kid, cause you to not make the rent, and arent associated with internet SCAMMERS.  it baffles me man, hope some of those kids get to read this before they get squatflexed out of training.   :uhhhfacepalm:

i'd love to get Maroko, A-link, etc on here, to help explain why they only promote squatflex during the holiday's, similar to how Hiller did..

I find it funny that it's ONLY promoted during x-mas season, and then these people turn around and tell us that x-mas season has nothing to do with it, you kidding me?

lol shit cracks me up yet pisses me off.


Yep, me too bro. theyre misleading kids, ripping people off, and setting them up for failure and injuries, and they claim theyre OPEN MINDED, yet listen to NOTHING, regardless of how badly their point has been proven ridiculous. True colors shine through in the end man, money talks more than "sense"  ;D to those people.  Maybe one day they will change and try to actually HELP the same kids theyve made their living off of instead of trying to sell them the next jumpusa gimmick. I wont hold my breath tho.  :uhhhfacepalm:

exactly.. it's funny when people claim they are "open", get disproven/smashed, then continue the same old stuff.. These people say, "well my clients don't want to goto a gym!!!" etc, how are you HELPING them if you:

1. enable their "weak fortitude" with a piece of crap
2. increase their risk of injury greatly
3. take way too much money out of their pocket, which could be used to purchase more effective equipment/gym membership etc

all these people are doing, is praying on the "weak sheep", instead of guiding them to the promise land, of REAL effective training..

i guess that's what makes us different than the squatflex promoters, when we see sheep, we try to guide them in the right direction, turn them into wolves, and eventually honey badgers.. people who promote squatflex to them, are just trying to keep them as sheep, keep them down, keep them from achieving their dreams..

that's my take on it.

pc

Great analogy man, dead on with that one.  I get dissapointed in myself for actually thinking that they might be "open minded" only to see the truth come through, theyre manipulators.  People who manipulate are worse than the people who just say "fuck you guys im gonna get these kids to spend cCRAZY money so i can get PAID" .  Takes one hell of a person to mislead a kid thats putting their trust and dreams into something they say, then mislead them down a dead end road over some fucking money.  Wonder how many trash, overpriced, scammer made products Zatsiorsky, Siff, and Verk promoted back in the day. BRB, checking the books.  :uhhhfacepalm:

lol i'm in complete agreement believe it or not.. maroko knows he's full of shit, he ain't going to come on here an B.S.

anyway, the Greats you mentioned would definitely not be in favor of anyone promoting chumpflex to athletes, they'd laugh in their well known accents. They'd laugh at the thought of someone considering themself an "athlete" and wanting to train from home using chumpflex or any of that lameness, then they'd try to get through to them and tell them what it really takes, and what they will have to do in order to achieve success...

LanceSTS, if you ever find an impressive athlete who was "forged using squatflex (chumpflex)", please let me know.. I'd like to know their name and their coach's name, of course they'd have to have some videos though, not this "hiding behind the cloak of deceit" bs.

I appreciate your concern for the youngsters and easily duped athletes lancests, i really do.. I'm glad you're here to help those people in the right direction.

peace man
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 23, 2010, 02:30:46 am
LOL - I love how you guys support each other... it's awesome.

But this will make it all better:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lx59-1mVeMg
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: LanceSTS on December 23, 2010, 02:38:55 am
   :uhhhfacepalm:  Man, I sure hope lots of kids dont end up with back injuries this Christmas from their new "presents". 

I agree, I think squatflex should come with a "lifelong membership" to a chiropractic/PT office. Not only are these parents WASTING way too much money on a piece of crap product, their kids will most likely suffer some kind of spinal injury due to overzealous youngsters messing around with WAY too much band tension.

I dno, all-n-all, it's a travesty that anyone would promote that junk..

 :uhhhfacepalm:

Yep, get hurt, get broke, get SQUATFLEXED   :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm:

lol, you put that very well.. What's next, squatflex-shakeweight? Squatflex on a vibration platform?

Imagine a kid opening his present for x-mas, and it's a squatflex, little does he know that it's going to ruin his back for years to come.. Parent's don't know that either.. So, a $497 piece of junk will end up costing well over $2000 once injuries accumulate..

why anyone would promote that garbage is beyond me but whatever.. Some people promote AIDS, it's called bugchasing, same shit.

pc


Exactly man, I cant imagine anyone that would seriously consider that piece of trash after knowing all of the ridiculous things associated with its concepts.  ITs OVERPRICED, DANGEROUS, USELESS, and there are TONS of MUCH MUCH BETTER ALTERNATVES that wont, injure a kid, cause you to not make the rent, and arent associated with internet SCAMMERS.  it baffles me man, hope some of those kids get to read this before they get squatflexed out of training.   :uhhhfacepalm:

i'd love to get Maroko, A-link, etc on here, to help explain why they only promote squatflex during the holiday's, similar to how Hiller did..

I find it funny that it's ONLY promoted during x-mas season, and then these people turn around and tell us that x-mas season has nothing to do with it, you kidding me?

lol shit cracks me up yet pisses me off.


Yep, me too bro. theyre misleading kids, ripping people off, and setting them up for failure and injuries, and they claim theyre OPEN MINDED, yet listen to NOTHING, regardless of how badly their point has been proven ridiculous. True colors shine through in the end man, money talks more than "sense"  ;D to those people.  Maybe one day they will change and try to actually HELP the same kids theyve made their living off of instead of trying to sell them the next jumpusa gimmick. I wont hold my breath tho.  :uhhhfacepalm:

exactly.. it's funny when people claim they are "open", get disproven/smashed, then continue the same old stuff.. These people say, "well my clients don't want to goto a gym!!!" etc, how are you HELPING them if you:

1. enable their "weak fortitude" with a piece of crap
2. increase their risk of injury greatly
3. take way too much money out of their pocket, which could be used to purchase more effective equipment/gym membership etc

all these people are doing, is praying on the "weak sheep", instead of guiding them to the promise land, of REAL effective training..

i guess that's what makes us different than the squatflex promoters, when we see sheep, we try to guide them in the right direction, turn them into wolves, and eventually honey badgers.. people who promote squatflex to them, are just trying to keep them as sheep, keep them down, keep them from achieving their dreams..

that's my take on it.

pc

Great analogy man, dead on with that one.  I get dissapointed in myself for actually thinking that they might be "open minded" only to see the truth come through, theyre manipulators.  People who manipulate are worse than the people who just say "fuck you guys im gonna get these kids to spend cCRAZY money so i can get PAID" .  Takes one hell of a person to mislead a kid thats putting their trust and dreams into something they say, then mislead them down a dead end road over some fucking money.  Wonder how many trash, overpriced, scammer made products Zatsiorsky, Siff, and Verk promoted back in the day. BRB, checking the books.  :uhhhfacepalm:

lol i'm in complete agreement believe it or not.. maroko knows he's full of shit, he ain't going to come on here an B.S.

anyway, the Greats you mentioned would definitely not be in favor of anyone promoting chumpflex to athletes, they'd laugh in their well known accents. They'd laugh at the thought of someone considering themself an "athlete" and wanting to train from home using chumpflex or any of that lameness, then they'd try to get through to them and tell them what it really takes, and what they will have to do in order to achieve success...

LanceSTS, if you ever find an impressive athlete who was "forged using squatflex (chumpflex)", please let me know.. I'd like to know their name and their coach's name, of course they'd have to have some videos though, not this "hiding behind the cloak of deceit" bs.

I appreciate your concern for the youngsters and easily duped athletes lancests, i really do.. I'm glad you're here to help those people in the right direction.

peace man

Man, I will definitely be on the look out for the next elite squatflex forged athlete, I will for sure let you know if I see one and you keep me posted on all the the ones you find as well.  That things been out for several years now so there is bound to be a ton of those elite, squatflex forged, insane athletes.   (U hear that noise bro?, nvrmind, something in the background).  Anyway yea, we will keep an eye out for those phantom squatflexed beasts and make a thread for them when we find all of em.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on December 23, 2010, 02:48:30 am
  :uhhhfacepalm:  Man, I sure hope lots of kids dont end up with back injuries this Christmas from their new "presents".  

I agree, I think squatflex should come with a "lifelong membership" to a chiropractic/PT office. Not only are these parents WASTING way too much money on a piece of crap product, their kids will most likely suffer some kind of spinal injury due to overzealous youngsters messing around with WAY too much band tension.

I dno, all-n-all, it's a travesty that anyone would promote that junk..

 :uhhhfacepalm:

Yep, get hurt, get broke, get SQUATFLEXED   :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm:

lol, you put that very well.. What's next, squatflex-shakeweight? Squatflex on a vibration platform?

Imagine a kid opening his present for x-mas, and it's a squatflex, little does he know that it's going to ruin his back for years to come.. Parent's don't know that either.. So, a $497 piece of junk will end up costing well over $2000 once injuries accumulate..

why anyone would promote that garbage is beyond me but whatever.. Some people promote AIDS, it's called bugchasing, same shit.

pc


Exactly man, I cant imagine anyone that would seriously consider that piece of trash after knowing all of the ridiculous things associated with its concepts.  ITs OVERPRICED, DANGEROUS, USELESS, and there are TONS of MUCH MUCH BETTER ALTERNATVES that wont, injure a kid, cause you to not make the rent, and arent associated with internet SCAMMERS.  it baffles me man, hope some of those kids get to read this before they get squatflexed out of training.   :uhhhfacepalm:

i'd love to get Maroko, A-link, etc on here, to help explain why they only promote squatflex during the holiday's, similar to how Hiller did..

I find it funny that it's ONLY promoted during x-mas season, and then these people turn around and tell us that x-mas season has nothing to do with it, you kidding me?

lol shit cracks me up yet pisses me off.


Yep, me too bro. theyre misleading kids, ripping people off, and setting them up for failure and injuries, and they claim theyre OPEN MINDED, yet listen to NOTHING, regardless of how badly their point has been proven ridiculous. True colors shine through in the end man, money talks more than "sense"  ;D to those people.  Maybe one day they will change and try to actually HELP the same kids theyve made their living off of instead of trying to sell them the next jumpusa gimmick. I wont hold my breath tho.  :uhhhfacepalm:

exactly.. it's funny when people claim they are "open", get disproven/smashed, then continue the same old stuff.. These people say, "well my clients don't want to goto a gym!!!" etc, how are you HELPING them if you:

1. enable their "weak fortitude" with a piece of crap
2. increase their risk of injury greatly
3. take way too much money out of their pocket, which could be used to purchase more effective equipment/gym membership etc

all these people are doing, is praying on the "weak sheep", instead of guiding them to the promise land, of REAL effective training..

i guess that's what makes us different than the squatflex promoters, when we see sheep, we try to guide them in the right direction, turn them into wolves, and eventually honey badgers.. people who promote squatflex to them, are just trying to keep them as sheep, keep them down, keep them from achieving their dreams..

that's my take on it.

pc

Great analogy man, dead on with that one.  I get dissapointed in myself for actually thinking that they might be "open minded" only to see the truth come through, theyre manipulators.  People who manipulate are worse than the people who just say "fuck you guys im gonna get these kids to spend cCRAZY money so i can get PAID" .  Takes one hell of a person to mislead a kid thats putting their trust and dreams into something they say, then mislead them down a dead end road over some fucking money.  Wonder how many trash, overpriced, scammer made products Zatsiorsky, Siff, and Verk promoted back in the day. BRB, checking the books.  :uhhhfacepalm:

lol i'm in complete agreement believe it or not.. maroko knows he's full of shit, he ain't going to come on here an B.S.

anyway, the Greats you mentioned would definitely not be in favor of anyone promoting chumpflex to athletes, they'd laugh in their well known accents. They'd laugh at the thought of someone considering themself an "athlete" and wanting to train from home using chumpflex or any of that lameness, then they'd try to get through to them and tell them what it really takes, and what they will have to do in order to achieve success...

LanceSTS, if you ever find an impressive athlete who was "forged using squatflex (chumpflex)", please let me know.. I'd like to know their name and their coach's name, of course they'd have to have some videos though, not this "hiding behind the cloak of deceit" bs.

I appreciate your concern for the youngsters and easily duped athletes lancests, i really do.. I'm glad you're here to help those people in the right direction.

peace man

Man, I will definitely be on the look out for the next elite squatflex forged athlete, I will for sure let you know if I see one and you keep me posted on all the the ones you find as well.  That things been out for several years now so there is bound to be a ton of those elite, squatflex forged, insane athletes.   (U hear that noise bro?, nvrmind, something in the background).  Anyway yea, we will keep an eye out for those phantom squatflexed beasts and make a thread for them when we find all of em.

interesting point actually..

it's been around for a while, yet the only impressive testimonials we've seen from athletes who have used it, are actually lies, such as the B.A., SLAM, and Oh-No video... You'd think if the thing actually improved strength/vert to any degree, that jumpusa wouldn't have to coerce people into LYING to promote their product.. man you make a great point. Chumpflex simply is not effective, if it were, you'd see transformations, which DO NOT EXIST, the only transformations that exist are lies.

I find it fascinating that someone would promote a major product for such a company, thus ruining their entire reputation in the minds of the "legit strength and conditioning community". I mean I speak for every legit s&c coach on this planet, they would not promote that product and thus the pathetic tactics of jumpusa.



thanks for that post lance.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: LanceSTS on December 23, 2010, 03:12:59 am
  :uhhhfacepalm:  Man, I sure hope lots of kids dont end up with back injuries this Christmas from their new "presents".  

I agree, I think squatflex should come with a "lifelong membership" to a chiropractic/PT office. Not only are these parents WASTING way too much money on a piece of crap product, their kids will most likely suffer some kind of spinal injury due to overzealous youngsters messing around with WAY too much band tension.

I dno, all-n-all, it's a travesty that anyone would promote that junk..

 :uhhhfacepalm:

Yep, get hurt, get broke, get SQUATFLEXED   :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm:

lol, you put that very well.. What's next, squatflex-shakeweight? Squatflex on a vibration platform?

Imagine a kid opening his present for x-mas, and it's a squatflex, little does he know that it's going to ruin his back for years to come.. Parent's don't know that either.. So, a $497 piece of junk will end up costing well over $2000 once injuries accumulate..

why anyone would promote that garbage is beyond me but whatever.. Some people promote AIDS, it's called bugchasing, same shit.

pc


Exactly man, I cant imagine anyone that would seriously consider that piece of trash after knowing all of the ridiculous things associated with its concepts.  ITs OVERPRICED, DANGEROUS, USELESS, and there are TONS of MUCH MUCH BETTER ALTERNATVES that wont, injure a kid, cause you to not make the rent, and arent associated with internet SCAMMERS.  it baffles me man, hope some of those kids get to read this before they get squatflexed out of training.   :uhhhfacepalm:

i'd love to get Maroko, A-link, etc on here, to help explain why they only promote squatflex during the holiday's, similar to how Hiller did..

I find it funny that it's ONLY promoted during x-mas season, and then these people turn around and tell us that x-mas season has nothing to do with it, you kidding me?

lol shit cracks me up yet pisses me off.


Yep, me too bro. theyre misleading kids, ripping people off, and setting them up for failure and injuries, and they claim theyre OPEN MINDED, yet listen to NOTHING, regardless of how badly their point has been proven ridiculous. True colors shine through in the end man, money talks more than "sense"  ;D to those people.  Maybe one day they will change and try to actually HELP the same kids theyve made their living off of instead of trying to sell them the next jumpusa gimmick. I wont hold my breath tho.  :uhhhfacepalm:

exactly.. it's funny when people claim they are "open", get disproven/smashed, then continue the same old stuff.. These people say, "well my clients don't want to goto a gym!!!" etc, how are you HELPING them if you:

1. enable their "weak fortitude" with a piece of crap
2. increase their risk of injury greatly
3. take way too much money out of their pocket, which could be used to purchase more effective equipment/gym membership etc

all these people are doing, is praying on the "weak sheep", instead of guiding them to the promise land, of REAL effective training..

i guess that's what makes us different than the squatflex promoters, when we see sheep, we try to guide them in the right direction, turn them into wolves, and eventually honey badgers.. people who promote squatflex to them, are just trying to keep them as sheep, keep them down, keep them from achieving their dreams..

that's my take on it.

pc

Great analogy man, dead on with that one.  I get dissapointed in myself for actually thinking that they might be "open minded" only to see the truth come through, theyre manipulators.  People who manipulate are worse than the people who just say "fuck you guys im gonna get these kids to spend cCRAZY money so i can get PAID" .  Takes one hell of a person to mislead a kid thats putting their trust and dreams into something they say, then mislead them down a dead end road over some fucking money.  Wonder how many trash, overpriced, scammer made products Zatsiorsky, Siff, and Verk promoted back in the day. BRB, checking the books.  :uhhhfacepalm:

lol i'm in complete agreement believe it or not.. maroko knows he's full of shit, he ain't going to come on here an B.S.

anyway, the Greats you mentioned would definitely not be in favor of anyone promoting chumpflex to athletes, they'd laugh in their well known accents. They'd laugh at the thought of someone considering themself an "athlete" and wanting to train from home using chumpflex or any of that lameness, then they'd try to get through to them and tell them what it really takes, and what they will have to do in order to achieve success...

LanceSTS, if you ever find an impressive athlete who was "forged using squatflex (chumpflex)", please let me know.. I'd like to know their name and their coach's name, of course they'd have to have some videos though, not this "hiding behind the cloak of deceit" bs.

I appreciate your concern for the youngsters and easily duped athletes lancests, i really do.. I'm glad you're here to help those people in the right direction.

peace man

Man, I will definitely be on the look out for the next elite squatflex forged athlete, I will for sure let you know if I see one and you keep me posted on all the the ones you find as well.  That things been out for several years now so there is bound to be a ton of those elite, squatflex forged, insane athletes.   (U hear that noise bro?, nvrmind, something in the background).  Anyway yea, we will keep an eye out for those phantom squatflexed beasts and make a thread for them when we find all of em.

interesting point actually..

it's been around for a while, yet the only impressive testimonials we've seen from athletes who have used it, are actually lies, such as the B.A., SLAM, and Oh-No video... You'd think if the thing actually improved strength/vert to any degree, that jumpusa wouldn't have to coerce people into LYING to promote their product.. man you make a great point. Chumpflex simply is not effective, if it were, you'd see transformations, which DO NOT EXIST, the only transformations that exist are lies.

I find it fascinating that someone would promote a major product for such a company, thus ruining their entire reputation in the minds of the "legit strength and conditioning community". I mean I speak for every legit s&c coach on this planet, they would not promote that product and thus the pathetic tactics of jumpusa.



thanks for that post lance.

EXCELLENT POINT, any legit coach would laugh their brains out at the concept of it alone, trying to legitimize a piece of trash, made by someone with an IQ score of <4, and come to find out, this damn thing is the REVOLUTION of jump training afterall.  Man, we were in the dark.   Funny that there is ALREADY A VIDEO OF A POOR KID TRAINING ON THAT PIECE OF SHIT, AND IS WEARING A BELT BECAUSE HE INJURED HIS BACK.  The only reason there arent more of those videos is because the rest of the poor kids trying to get one are probably having to save up or getting their parents to put back their hard earned money to buy that piece of trash for them for CHRISTMAS, (of all the times to scam somebody).  Idk man,  I cant imagine the mindset it takes to do that to one of these kids that are training their asses off, taking everything you say and running with it, believing and trusting in you,  and using that influence to mislead them.    :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm:
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on December 23, 2010, 03:21:57 am
  :uhhhfacepalm:  Man, I sure hope lots of kids dont end up with back injuries this Christmas from their new "presents".  

I agree, I think squatflex should come with a "lifelong membership" to a chiropractic/PT office. Not only are these parents WASTING way too much money on a piece of crap product, their kids will most likely suffer some kind of spinal injury due to overzealous youngsters messing around with WAY too much band tension.

I dno, all-n-all, it's a travesty that anyone would promote that junk..

 :uhhhfacepalm:

Yep, get hurt, get broke, get SQUATFLEXED   :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm:

lol, you put that very well.. What's next, squatflex-shakeweight? Squatflex on a vibration platform?

Imagine a kid opening his present for x-mas, and it's a squatflex, little does he know that it's going to ruin his back for years to come.. Parent's don't know that either.. So, a $497 piece of junk will end up costing well over $2000 once injuries accumulate..

why anyone would promote that garbage is beyond me but whatever.. Some people promote AIDS, it's called bugchasing, same shit.

pc


Exactly man, I cant imagine anyone that would seriously consider that piece of trash after knowing all of the ridiculous things associated with its concepts.  ITs OVERPRICED, DANGEROUS, USELESS, and there are TONS of MUCH MUCH BETTER ALTERNATVES that wont, injure a kid, cause you to not make the rent, and arent associated with internet SCAMMERS.  it baffles me man, hope some of those kids get to read this before they get squatflexed out of training.   :uhhhfacepalm:

i'd love to get Maroko, A-link, etc on here, to help explain why they only promote squatflex during the holiday's, similar to how Hiller did..

I find it funny that it's ONLY promoted during x-mas season, and then these people turn around and tell us that x-mas season has nothing to do with it, you kidding me?

lol shit cracks me up yet pisses me off.


Yep, me too bro. theyre misleading kids, ripping people off, and setting them up for failure and injuries, and they claim theyre OPEN MINDED, yet listen to NOTHING, regardless of how badly their point has been proven ridiculous. True colors shine through in the end man, money talks more than "sense"  ;D to those people.  Maybe one day they will change and try to actually HELP the same kids theyve made their living off of instead of trying to sell them the next jumpusa gimmick. I wont hold my breath tho.  :uhhhfacepalm:

exactly.. it's funny when people claim they are "open", get disproven/smashed, then continue the same old stuff.. These people say, "well my clients don't want to goto a gym!!!" etc, how are you HELPING them if you:

1. enable their "weak fortitude" with a piece of crap
2. increase their risk of injury greatly
3. take way too much money out of their pocket, which could be used to purchase more effective equipment/gym membership etc

all these people are doing, is praying on the "weak sheep", instead of guiding them to the promise land, of REAL effective training..

i guess that's what makes us different than the squatflex promoters, when we see sheep, we try to guide them in the right direction, turn them into wolves, and eventually honey badgers.. people who promote squatflex to them, are just trying to keep them as sheep, keep them down, keep them from achieving their dreams..

that's my take on it.

pc

Great analogy man, dead on with that one.  I get dissapointed in myself for actually thinking that they might be "open minded" only to see the truth come through, theyre manipulators.  People who manipulate are worse than the people who just say "fuck you guys im gonna get these kids to spend cCRAZY money so i can get PAID" .  Takes one hell of a person to mislead a kid thats putting their trust and dreams into something they say, then mislead them down a dead end road over some fucking money.  Wonder how many trash, overpriced, scammer made products Zatsiorsky, Siff, and Verk promoted back in the day. BRB, checking the books.  :uhhhfacepalm:

lol i'm in complete agreement believe it or not.. maroko knows he's full of shit, he ain't going to come on here an B.S.

anyway, the Greats you mentioned would definitely not be in favor of anyone promoting chumpflex to athletes, they'd laugh in their well known accents. They'd laugh at the thought of someone considering themself an "athlete" and wanting to train from home using chumpflex or any of that lameness, then they'd try to get through to them and tell them what it really takes, and what they will have to do in order to achieve success...

LanceSTS, if you ever find an impressive athlete who was "forged using squatflex (chumpflex)", please let me know.. I'd like to know their name and their coach's name, of course they'd have to have some videos though, not this "hiding behind the cloak of deceit" bs.

I appreciate your concern for the youngsters and easily duped athletes lancests, i really do.. I'm glad you're here to help those people in the right direction.

peace man

Man, I will definitely be on the look out for the next elite squatflex forged athlete, I will for sure let you know if I see one and you keep me posted on all the the ones you find as well.  That things been out for several years now so there is bound to be a ton of those elite, squatflex forged, insane athletes.   (U hear that noise bro?, nvrmind, something in the background).  Anyway yea, we will keep an eye out for those phantom squatflexed beasts and make a thread for them when we find all of em.

interesting point actually..

it's been around for a while, yet the only impressive testimonials we've seen from athletes who have used it, are actually lies, such as the B.A., SLAM, and Oh-No video... You'd think if the thing actually improved strength/vert to any degree, that jumpusa wouldn't have to coerce people into LYING to promote their product.. man you make a great point. Chumpflex simply is not effective, if it were, you'd see transformations, which DO NOT EXIST, the only transformations that exist are lies.

I find it fascinating that someone would promote a major product for such a company, thus ruining their entire reputation in the minds of the "legit strength and conditioning community". I mean I speak for every legit s&c coach on this planet, they would not promote that product and thus the pathetic tactics of jumpusa.



thanks for that post lance.

EXCELLENT POINT, any legit coach would laugh their brains out at the concept of it alone, trying to legitimize a piece of trash, made by someone with an IQ score of <4, and come to find out, this damn thing is the REVOLUTION of jump training afterall.  Man, we were in the dark.   Funny that there is ALREADY A VIDEO OF A POOR KID TRAINING ON THAT PIECE OF SHIT, AND IS WEARING A BELT BECAUSE HE INJURED HIS BACK.  The only reason there arent more of those videos is because the rest of the poor kids trying to get one are probably having to save up or getting their parents to put back their hard earned money to buy that piece of trash for them for CHRISTMAS, (of all the times to scam somebody).  Idk man,  I cant imagine the mindset it takes to do that to one of these kids that are training their asses off, taking everything you say and running with it, believing and trusting in you,  and using that influence to mislead them.    :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm:

great point, I lol'd so hard at the comment in bold.. that's exactly it, people promoting a product made by Jumpusa - The combined IQ of their s&c team is 8.

Let me ask you this lance, when a coach promotes squatflex, yet still puts out solid or 'decent' information to the rest of his audience, is he allowed to keep respect? To me, it seems these people are trying to play both sides, trying to "help people with legit info", but make more money on the side by scamming. In my opinion, that causes them to lose all respect/credibility in my eyes.. A-link does that for example, Maroko too, can't think of anyone else at the moment (eh), but those guys just lose all credibility among their peers AND among those athletes who know the difference and have half a brain..

I think we don't see more squatflex videos because parents have to refinance their house, take out loans etc to pay for the damn thing, a camera would just be an added burden.

peace

Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: LanceSTS on December 23, 2010, 03:36:54 am
  :uhhhfacepalm:  Man, I sure hope lots of kids dont end up with back injuries this Christmas from their new "presents".  

I agree, I think squatflex should come with a "lifelong membership" to a chiropractic/PT office. Not only are these parents WASTING way too much money on a piece of crap product, their kids will most likely suffer some kind of spinal injury due to overzealous youngsters messing around with WAY too much band tension.

I dno, all-n-all, it's a travesty that anyone would promote that junk..

 :uhhhfacepalm:

Yep, get hurt, get broke, get SQUATFLEXED   :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm:

lol, you put that very well.. What's next, squatflex-shakeweight? Squatflex on a vibration platform?

Imagine a kid opening his present for x-mas, and it's a squatflex, little does he know that it's going to ruin his back for years to come.. Parent's don't know that either.. So, a $497 piece of junk will end up costing well over $2000 once injuries accumulate..

why anyone would promote that garbage is beyond me but whatever.. Some people promote AIDS, it's called bugchasing, same shit.

pc


Exactly man, I cant imagine anyone that would seriously consider that piece of trash after knowing all of the ridiculous things associated with its concepts.  ITs OVERPRICED, DANGEROUS, USELESS, and there are TONS of MUCH MUCH BETTER ALTERNATVES that wont, injure a kid, cause you to not make the rent, and arent associated with internet SCAMMERS.  it baffles me man, hope some of those kids get to read this before they get squatflexed out of training.   :uhhhfacepalm:

i'd love to get Maroko, A-link, etc on here, to help explain why they only promote squatflex during the holiday's, similar to how Hiller did..

I find it funny that it's ONLY promoted during x-mas season, and then these people turn around and tell us that x-mas season has nothing to do with it, you kidding me?

lol shit cracks me up yet pisses me off.


Yep, me too bro. theyre misleading kids, ripping people off, and setting them up for failure and injuries, and they claim theyre OPEN MINDED, yet listen to NOTHING, regardless of how badly their point has been proven ridiculous. True colors shine through in the end man, money talks more than "sense"  ;D to those people.  Maybe one day they will change and try to actually HELP the same kids theyve made their living off of instead of trying to sell them the next jumpusa gimmick. I wont hold my breath tho.  :uhhhfacepalm:

exactly.. it's funny when people claim they are "open", get disproven/smashed, then continue the same old stuff.. These people say, "well my clients don't want to goto a gym!!!" etc, how are you HELPING them if you:

1. enable their "weak fortitude" with a piece of crap
2. increase their risk of injury greatly
3. take way too much money out of their pocket, which could be used to purchase more effective equipment/gym membership etc

all these people are doing, is praying on the "weak sheep", instead of guiding them to the promise land, of REAL effective training..

i guess that's what makes us different than the squatflex promoters, when we see sheep, we try to guide them in the right direction, turn them into wolves, and eventually honey badgers.. people who promote squatflex to them, are just trying to keep them as sheep, keep them down, keep them from achieving their dreams..

that's my take on it.

pc

Great analogy man, dead on with that one.  I get dissapointed in myself for actually thinking that they might be "open minded" only to see the truth come through, theyre manipulators.  People who manipulate are worse than the people who just say "fuck you guys im gonna get these kids to spend cCRAZY money so i can get PAID" .  Takes one hell of a person to mislead a kid thats putting their trust and dreams into something they say, then mislead them down a dead end road over some fucking money.  Wonder how many trash, overpriced, scammer made products Zatsiorsky, Siff, and Verk promoted back in the day. BRB, checking the books.  :uhhhfacepalm:

lol i'm in complete agreement believe it or not.. maroko knows he's full of shit, he ain't going to come on here an B.S.

anyway, the Greats you mentioned would definitely not be in favor of anyone promoting chumpflex to athletes, they'd laugh in their well known accents. They'd laugh at the thought of someone considering themself an "athlete" and wanting to train from home using chumpflex or any of that lameness, then they'd try to get through to them and tell them what it really takes, and what they will have to do in order to achieve success...

LanceSTS, if you ever find an impressive athlete who was "forged using squatflex (chumpflex)", please let me know.. I'd like to know their name and their coach's name, of course they'd have to have some videos though, not this "hiding behind the cloak of deceit" bs.

I appreciate your concern for the youngsters and easily duped athletes lancests, i really do.. I'm glad you're here to help those people in the right direction.

peace man

Man, I will definitely be on the look out for the next elite squatflex forged athlete, I will for sure let you know if I see one and you keep me posted on all the the ones you find as well.  That things been out for several years now so there is bound to be a ton of those elite, squatflex forged, insane athletes.   (U hear that noise bro?, nvrmind, something in the background).  Anyway yea, we will keep an eye out for those phantom squatflexed beasts and make a thread for them when we find all of em.

interesting point actually..

it's been around for a while, yet the only impressive testimonials we've seen from athletes who have used it, are actually lies, such as the B.A., SLAM, and Oh-No video... You'd think if the thing actually improved strength/vert to any degree, that jumpusa wouldn't have to coerce people into LYING to promote their product.. man you make a great point. Chumpflex simply is not effective, if it were, you'd see transformations, which DO NOT EXIST, the only transformations that exist are lies.

I find it fascinating that someone would promote a major product for such a company, thus ruining their entire reputation in the minds of the "legit strength and conditioning community". I mean I speak for every legit s&c coach on this planet, they would not promote that product and thus the pathetic tactics of jumpusa.



thanks for that post lance.

EXCELLENT POINT, any legit coach would laugh their brains out at the concept of it alone, trying to legitimize a piece of trash, made by someone with an IQ score of <4, and come to find out, this damn thing is the REVOLUTION of jump training afterall.  Man, we were in the dark.   Funny that there is ALREADY A VIDEO OF A POOR KID TRAINING ON THAT PIECE OF SHIT, AND IS WEARING A BELT BECAUSE HE INJURED HIS BACK.  The only reason there arent more of those videos is because the rest of the poor kids trying to get one are probably having to save up or getting their parents to put back their hard earned money to buy that piece of trash for them for CHRISTMAS, (of all the times to scam somebody).  Idk man,  I cant imagine the mindset it takes to do that to one of these kids that are training their asses off, taking everything you say and running with it, believing and trusting in you,  and using that influence to mislead them.    :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm:

great point, I lol'd so hard at the comment in bold.. that's exactly it, people promoting a product made by Jumpusa - The combined IQ of their s&c team is 8.

Let me ask you this lance, when a coach promotes squatflex, yet still puts out solid or 'decent' information to the rest of his audience, is he allowed to keep respect? To me, it seems these people are trying to play both sides, trying to "help people with legit info", but make more money on the side by scamming. In my opinion, that causes them to lose all respect/credibility in my eyes.. A-link does that for example, Maroko too, can't think of anyone else at the moment (eh), but those guys just lose all credibility among their peers AND among those athletes who know the difference and have half a brain..

I think we don't see more squatflex videos because parents have to refinance their house, take out loans etc to pay for the damn thing, a camera would just be an added burden.

peace



Thats a great question but really easy for me to answer, HELL NO.  Sure, the knowledgeable athletes know that that part of their advice is purely for money and  a complete bullshit product, but what about the new kids and ones that dont know anything yet? Its ok to sacrifice them?  I sure dont think so, when someone has it in them to cheat you or scam you, how do you know that ANYTHING they say is legit?  What if they just found a more enticing scam and are selling you on that now, too much filtering is required.  Thats one of  the things that you and I share alot about training, its something that means ALOT to us, something pure, a way to HELP athletes who are willing to put in the work, through SCIENCE, to show them a way to succeed.  Once you taint that its gone, over , done, do not pass go, gtfo.

Whats your take on that issue? I think I have a pretty good idea already but Id like it to be posted in this thread for all of the potential customers of those products to have a chance to see when they do a google search of it. :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm:
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on December 23, 2010, 03:46:20 am
  :uhhhfacepalm:  Man, I sure hope lots of kids dont end up with back injuries this Christmas from their new "presents".  

I agree, I think squatflex should come with a "lifelong membership" to a chiropractic/PT office. Not only are these parents WASTING way too much money on a piece of crap product, their kids will most likely suffer some kind of spinal injury due to overzealous youngsters messing around with WAY too much band tension.

I dno, all-n-all, it's a travesty that anyone would promote that junk..

 :uhhhfacepalm:

Yep, get hurt, get broke, get SQUATFLEXED   :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm:

lol, you put that very well.. What's next, squatflex-shakeweight? Squatflex on a vibration platform?

Imagine a kid opening his present for x-mas, and it's a squatflex, little does he know that it's going to ruin his back for years to come.. Parent's don't know that either.. So, a $497 piece of junk will end up costing well over $2000 once injuries accumulate..

why anyone would promote that garbage is beyond me but whatever.. Some people promote AIDS, it's called bugchasing, same shit.

pc


Exactly man, I cant imagine anyone that would seriously consider that piece of trash after knowing all of the ridiculous things associated with its concepts.  ITs OVERPRICED, DANGEROUS, USELESS, and there are TONS of MUCH MUCH BETTER ALTERNATVES that wont, injure a kid, cause you to not make the rent, and arent associated with internet SCAMMERS.  it baffles me man, hope some of those kids get to read this before they get squatflexed out of training.   :uhhhfacepalm:

i'd love to get Maroko, A-link, etc on here, to help explain why they only promote squatflex during the holiday's, similar to how Hiller did..

I find it funny that it's ONLY promoted during x-mas season, and then these people turn around and tell us that x-mas season has nothing to do with it, you kidding me?

lol shit cracks me up yet pisses me off.


Yep, me too bro. theyre misleading kids, ripping people off, and setting them up for failure and injuries, and they claim theyre OPEN MINDED, yet listen to NOTHING, regardless of how badly their point has been proven ridiculous. True colors shine through in the end man, money talks more than "sense"  ;D to those people.  Maybe one day they will change and try to actually HELP the same kids theyve made their living off of instead of trying to sell them the next jumpusa gimmick. I wont hold my breath tho.  :uhhhfacepalm:

exactly.. it's funny when people claim they are "open", get disproven/smashed, then continue the same old stuff.. These people say, "well my clients don't want to goto a gym!!!" etc, how are you HELPING them if you:

1. enable their "weak fortitude" with a piece of crap
2. increase their risk of injury greatly
3. take way too much money out of their pocket, which could be used to purchase more effective equipment/gym membership etc

all these people are doing, is praying on the "weak sheep", instead of guiding them to the promise land, of REAL effective training..

i guess that's what makes us different than the squatflex promoters, when we see sheep, we try to guide them in the right direction, turn them into wolves, and eventually honey badgers.. people who promote squatflex to them, are just trying to keep them as sheep, keep them down, keep them from achieving their dreams..

that's my take on it.

pc

Great analogy man, dead on with that one.  I get dissapointed in myself for actually thinking that they might be "open minded" only to see the truth come through, theyre manipulators.  People who manipulate are worse than the people who just say "fuck you guys im gonna get these kids to spend cCRAZY money so i can get PAID" .  Takes one hell of a person to mislead a kid thats putting their trust and dreams into something they say, then mislead them down a dead end road over some fucking money.  Wonder how many trash, overpriced, scammer made products Zatsiorsky, Siff, and Verk promoted back in the day. BRB, checking the books.  :uhhhfacepalm:

lol i'm in complete agreement believe it or not.. maroko knows he's full of shit, he ain't going to come on here an B.S.

anyway, the Greats you mentioned would definitely not be in favor of anyone promoting chumpflex to athletes, they'd laugh in their well known accents. They'd laugh at the thought of someone considering themself an "athlete" and wanting to train from home using chumpflex or any of that lameness, then they'd try to get through to them and tell them what it really takes, and what they will have to do in order to achieve success...

LanceSTS, if you ever find an impressive athlete who was "forged using squatflex (chumpflex)", please let me know.. I'd like to know their name and their coach's name, of course they'd have to have some videos though, not this "hiding behind the cloak of deceit" bs.

I appreciate your concern for the youngsters and easily duped athletes lancests, i really do.. I'm glad you're here to help those people in the right direction.

peace man

Man, I will definitely be on the look out for the next elite squatflex forged athlete, I will for sure let you know if I see one and you keep me posted on all the the ones you find as well.  That things been out for several years now so there is bound to be a ton of those elite, squatflex forged, insane athletes.   (U hear that noise bro?, nvrmind, something in the background).  Anyway yea, we will keep an eye out for those phantom squatflexed beasts and make a thread for them when we find all of em.

interesting point actually..

it's been around for a while, yet the only impressive testimonials we've seen from athletes who have used it, are actually lies, such as the B.A., SLAM, and Oh-No video... You'd think if the thing actually improved strength/vert to any degree, that jumpusa wouldn't have to coerce people into LYING to promote their product.. man you make a great point. Chumpflex simply is not effective, if it were, you'd see transformations, which DO NOT EXIST, the only transformations that exist are lies.

I find it fascinating that someone would promote a major product for such a company, thus ruining their entire reputation in the minds of the "legit strength and conditioning community". I mean I speak for every legit s&c coach on this planet, they would not promote that product and thus the pathetic tactics of jumpusa.



thanks for that post lance.

EXCELLENT POINT, any legit coach would laugh their brains out at the concept of it alone, trying to legitimize a piece of trash, made by someone with an IQ score of <4, and come to find out, this damn thing is the REVOLUTION of jump training afterall.  Man, we were in the dark.   Funny that there is ALREADY A VIDEO OF A POOR KID TRAINING ON THAT PIECE OF SHIT, AND IS WEARING A BELT BECAUSE HE INJURED HIS BACK.  The only reason there arent more of those videos is because the rest of the poor kids trying to get one are probably having to save up or getting their parents to put back their hard earned money to buy that piece of trash for them for CHRISTMAS, (of all the times to scam somebody).  Idk man,  I cant imagine the mindset it takes to do that to one of these kids that are training their asses off, taking everything you say and running with it, believing and trusting in you,  and using that influence to mislead them.    :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm:

great point, I lol'd so hard at the comment in bold.. that's exactly it, people promoting a product made by Jumpusa - The combined IQ of their s&c team is 8.

Let me ask you this lance, when a coach promotes squatflex, yet still puts out solid or 'decent' information to the rest of his audience, is he allowed to keep respect? To me, it seems these people are trying to play both sides, trying to "help people with legit info", but make more money on the side by scamming. In my opinion, that causes them to lose all respect/credibility in my eyes.. A-link does that for example, Maroko too, can't think of anyone else at the moment (eh), but those guys just lose all credibility among their peers AND among those athletes who know the difference and have half a brain..

I think we don't see more squatflex videos because parents have to refinance their house, take out loans etc to pay for the damn thing, a camera would just be an added burden.

peace



Thats a great question but really easy for me to answer, HELL NO.  Sure, the knowledgeable athletes know that that part of their advice is purely for money and  a complete bullshit product, but what about the new kids and ones that dont know anything yet? Its ok to sacrifice them?  I sure dont think so, when someone has it in them to cheat you or scam you, how do you know that ANYTHING they say is legit?  What if they just found a more enticing scam and are selling you on that now, too much filtering is required.  Thats one of  the things that you and I share alot about training, its something that means ALOT to us, something pure, a way to HELP athletes who are willing to put in the work, through SCIENCE, to show them a way to succeed.  Once you taint that its gone, over , done, do not pass go, gtfo.

Whats your take on that issue? I think I have a pretty good idea already but Id like it to be posted in this thread for all of the potential customers of those products to have a chance to see when they do a google search of it. :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm:

man I completely agree.. I got another question.. What is your take on someone promoting squatflex, who actually believes in it? Truly believes in it? I personally think that again ruins their credibility. For example, that's like me trying to say I believe in x & y, but I also believe the tooth fairy is real. I mean, come on.

One more question.. Why would anyone continue to promote squatflex (497$) when it can be made at home depot (homeDepotFlex) for ~$10 or less? You have any idea why they would do that? That baffles me.. I don't get it.. To me, that screams "scammer" all over it, that's just my opinion though..

peace
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: LanceSTS on December 23, 2010, 04:03:48 am
  :uhhhfacepalm:  Man, I sure hope lots of kids dont end up with back injuries this Christmas from their new "presents".  

I agree, I think squatflex should come with a "lifelong membership" to a chiropractic/PT office. Not only are these parents WASTING way too much money on a piece of crap product, their kids will most likely suffer some kind of spinal injury due to overzealous youngsters messing around with WAY too much band tension.

I dno, all-n-all, it's a travesty that anyone would promote that junk..

 :uhhhfacepalm:

Yep, get hurt, get broke, get SQUATFLEXED   :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm:

lol, you put that very well.. What's next, squatflex-shakeweight? Squatflex on a vibration platform?

Imagine a kid opening his present for x-mas, and it's a squatflex, little does he know that it's going to ruin his back for years to come.. Parent's don't know that either.. So, a $497 piece of junk will end up costing well over $2000 once injuries accumulate..

why anyone would promote that garbage is beyond me but whatever.. Some people promote AIDS, it's called bugchasing, same shit.

pc


Exactly man, I cant imagine anyone that would seriously consider that piece of trash after knowing all of the ridiculous things associated with its concepts.  ITs OVERPRICED, DANGEROUS, USELESS, and there are TONS of MUCH MUCH BETTER ALTERNATVES that wont, injure a kid, cause you to not make the rent, and arent associated with internet SCAMMERS.  it baffles me man, hope some of those kids get to read this before they get squatflexed out of training.   :uhhhfacepalm:

i'd love to get Maroko, A-link, etc on here, to help explain why they only promote squatflex during the holiday's, similar to how Hiller did..

I find it funny that it's ONLY promoted during x-mas season, and then these people turn around and tell us that x-mas season has nothing to do with it, you kidding me?

lol shit cracks me up yet pisses me off.


Yep, me too bro. theyre misleading kids, ripping people off, and setting them up for failure and injuries, and they claim theyre OPEN MINDED, yet listen to NOTHING, regardless of how badly their point has been proven ridiculous. True colors shine through in the end man, money talks more than "sense"  ;D to those people.  Maybe one day they will change and try to actually HELP the same kids theyve made their living off of instead of trying to sell them the next jumpusa gimmick. I wont hold my breath tho.  :uhhhfacepalm:

exactly.. it's funny when people claim they are "open", get disproven/smashed, then continue the same old stuff.. These people say, "well my clients don't want to goto a gym!!!" etc, how are you HELPING them if you:

1. enable their "weak fortitude" with a piece of crap
2. increase their risk of injury greatly
3. take way too much money out of their pocket, which could be used to purchase more effective equipment/gym membership etc

all these people are doing, is praying on the "weak sheep", instead of guiding them to the promise land, of REAL effective training..

i guess that's what makes us different than the squatflex promoters, when we see sheep, we try to guide them in the right direction, turn them into wolves, and eventually honey badgers.. people who promote squatflex to them, are just trying to keep them as sheep, keep them down, keep them from achieving their dreams..

that's my take on it.

pc

Great analogy man, dead on with that one.  I get dissapointed in myself for actually thinking that they might be "open minded" only to see the truth come through, theyre manipulators.  People who manipulate are worse than the people who just say "fuck you guys im gonna get these kids to spend cCRAZY money so i can get PAID" .  Takes one hell of a person to mislead a kid thats putting their trust and dreams into something they say, then mislead them down a dead end road over some fucking money.  Wonder how many trash, overpriced, scammer made products Zatsiorsky, Siff, and Verk promoted back in the day. BRB, checking the books.  :uhhhfacepalm:

lol i'm in complete agreement believe it or not.. maroko knows he's full of shit, he ain't going to come on here an B.S.

anyway, the Greats you mentioned would definitely not be in favor of anyone promoting chumpflex to athletes, they'd laugh in their well known accents. They'd laugh at the thought of someone considering themself an "athlete" and wanting to train from home using chumpflex or any of that lameness, then they'd try to get through to them and tell them what it really takes, and what they will have to do in order to achieve success...

LanceSTS, if you ever find an impressive athlete who was "forged using squatflex (chumpflex)", please let me know.. I'd like to know their name and their coach's name, of course they'd have to have some videos though, not this "hiding behind the cloak of deceit" bs.

I appreciate your concern for the youngsters and easily duped athletes lancests, i really do.. I'm glad you're here to help those people in the right direction.

peace man

Man, I will definitely be on the look out for the next elite squatflex forged athlete, I will for sure let you know if I see one and you keep me posted on all the the ones you find as well.  That things been out for several years now so there is bound to be a ton of those elite, squatflex forged, insane athletes.   (U hear that noise bro?, nvrmind, something in the background).  Anyway yea, we will keep an eye out for those phantom squatflexed beasts and make a thread for them when we find all of em.

interesting point actually..

it's been around for a while, yet the only impressive testimonials we've seen from athletes who have used it, are actually lies, such as the B.A., SLAM, and Oh-No video... You'd think if the thing actually improved strength/vert to any degree, that jumpusa wouldn't have to coerce people into LYING to promote their product.. man you make a great point. Chumpflex simply is not effective, if it were, you'd see transformations, which DO NOT EXIST, the only transformations that exist are lies.

I find it fascinating that someone would promote a major product for such a company, thus ruining their entire reputation in the minds of the "legit strength and conditioning community". I mean I speak for every legit s&c coach on this planet, they would not promote that product and thus the pathetic tactics of jumpusa.



thanks for that post lance.

EXCELLENT POINT, any legit coach would laugh their brains out at the concept of it alone, trying to legitimize a piece of trash, made by someone with an IQ score of <4, and come to find out, this damn thing is the REVOLUTION of jump training afterall.  Man, we were in the dark.   Funny that there is ALREADY A VIDEO OF A POOR KID TRAINING ON THAT PIECE OF SHIT, AND IS WEARING A BELT BECAUSE HE INJURED HIS BACK.  The only reason there arent more of those videos is because the rest of the poor kids trying to get one are probably having to save up or getting their parents to put back their hard earned money to buy that piece of trash for them for CHRISTMAS, (of all the times to scam somebody).  Idk man,  I cant imagine the mindset it takes to do that to one of these kids that are training their asses off, taking everything you say and running with it, believing and trusting in you,  and using that influence to mislead them.    :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm:

great point, I lol'd so hard at the comment in bold.. that's exactly it, people promoting a product made by Jumpusa - The combined IQ of their s&c team is 8.

Let me ask you this lance, when a coach promotes squatflex, yet still puts out solid or 'decent' information to the rest of his audience, is he allowed to keep respect? To me, it seems these people are trying to play both sides, trying to "help people with legit info", but make more money on the side by scamming. In my opinion, that causes them to lose all respect/credibility in my eyes.. A-link does that for example, Maroko too, can't think of anyone else at the moment (eh), but those guys just lose all credibility among their peers AND among those athletes who know the difference and have half a brain..

I think we don't see more squatflex videos because parents have to refinance their house, take out loans etc to pay for the damn thing, a camera would just be an added burden.

peace



Thats a great question but really easy for me to answer, HELL NO.  Sure, the knowledgeable athletes know that that part of their advice is purely for money and  a complete bullshit product, but what about the new kids and ones that dont know anything yet? Its ok to sacrifice them?  I sure dont think so, when someone has it in them to cheat you or scam you, how do you know that ANYTHING they say is legit?  What if they just found a more enticing scam and are selling you on that now, too much filtering is required.  Thats one of  the things that you and I share alot about training, its something that means ALOT to us, something pure, a way to HELP athletes who are willing to put in the work, through SCIENCE, to show them a way to succeed.  Once you taint that its gone, over , done, do not pass go, gtfo.

Whats your take on that issue? I think I have a pretty good idea already but Id like it to be posted in this thread for all of the potential customers of those products to have a chance to see when they do a google search of it. :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm:

man I completely agree.. I got another question.. What is your take on someone promoting squatflex, who actually believes in it? Truly believes in it? I personally think that again ruins their credibility. For example, that's like me trying to say I believe in x & y, but I also believe the tooth fairy is real. I mean, come on.

One more question.. Why would anyone continue to promote squatflex (497$) when it can be made at home depot (homeDepotFlex) for ~$10 or less? You have any idea why they would do that? That baffles me.. I don't get it.. To me, that screams "scammer" all over it, that's just my opinion though..

peace

tooth fairy and squatflex, good comparison, both bring money that hasnt been EARNED.   If someone legitimately believed in the tooth fairy, I would first question their sanity if they were over 5 yrs old, then I would explain to them in rational terms what was really going on when they found money under their pillow.  I could even show them their parents bringing the money and putting it under their pillow.  THERE IS A LOGICAL EXPLANATION THAT WOULD CONVINCE ANY HUMAN WITH A HALF A BRAIN CELL THAT THE TOOTH FAIRY IS A FARCE.  Same exact thing with squatflex, I would try to explain to them in clear and sensible terms that it is CLEARLY A SCAMMER PRODUCT, MADE BY SCAMMERS, AND SOLD BY SCAMMERS, TO SCAM KIDS.  If they liked the concept of it, I would explain to them in very clear terms, that there are TONS OF REASONABLY PRICED ALTERNATIVES THAT WOULD YIELD MUCH BETTER RESULTS, AND AT LEAST THE SAME RESULTS, SINCE IT CAN BE MADE FOR NEXT TO NOTHING.  If however, they still did not find any of this simple common sense to be feasible, I would give up hope and realize that the only possible conclusion left would be THEY ARE GAINING SOMETHING THEY DO NOT WANT TO GIVE UP BY PROMOTING THAT PARTICULAR OVERPRICED SCAMMER PRODUCT.

Second question, theyre scammers, 100 percent.  Sooooo many other options have been listed by everyone man, can make the same damn thing for next to nothing, if they still run with the scammer product, got to call a duck a duck.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Raptor on December 23, 2010, 04:27:30 am
I don't agree that transformations can't be made to someone with scatflex™. You can easily take a person from a healthy state and tranform that person to an injured state.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: swatts on December 23, 2010, 11:12:08 pm
Jacob seems like a really nice guy... and I think it was very cool of him to come on here and defend himself in a hostile environment ...Believe me, I tried to look at this whole thing very impartially..... and in the end i don't see any benefit to squat-flex as it is in the format it is being marketed....

The consumer for a product like this is going to be someone who doesn't have access to any real lifting facilities... Also i'm going to assume they are going to be fairly young and have little S&C knowledge... They have ONE goal in mind and that is to increase their vertical leaping ability... The HOW is something that they have absolutely NO clue about.... Some will research their options heavily and end going down the right road... and others will fall prey to excellent marketing schemes and end up buying products that are all flash and no substance.... This is where SF falls in my books....  Squatflex is BLATENTLY overpriced in comparison to alternatives that accomplish virtually the same thing.... I really feel bad for anyone who ends up buying it..

Bottomline.. I do not understand how anyone could back this piece of equipment and still have genuine concern for helping less educated people have a positive experience while training to increase their vertical... This definitely hurts jacobs rep, as for me there is only one logical way to view SF promotion....
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on December 23, 2010, 11:22:17 pm
Jacob seems like a really nice guy... and I think it was very cool of him to come on here and defend himself in a hostile environment ...Believe me, I tried to look at this whole thing very impartially..... and in the end i don't see any benefit to squat-flex as it is in the format it is being marketed....

The consumer for a product like this is going to be someone who doesn't have access to any real lifting facilities... Also i'm going to assume they are going to be fairly young and have little S&C knowledge... They have ONE goal in mind and that is to increase their vertical leaping ability... The HOW is something that they have absolutely NO clue about.... Some will research their options heavily and end going down the right road... and others will fall prey to excellent marketing schemes and end up buying products that are all flash and no substance.... This is where SF falls in my books....  Squatflex is BLATENTLY overpriced in comparison to alternatives that accomplish virtually the same thing.... I really feel bad for anyone who ends up buying it..

Bottomline.. I do not understand how anyone could back this piece of equipment and still have genuine concern for helping less educated people have a positive experience while training to increase their vertical... This definitely hurts jacobs rep, as for me there is only one logical way to view SF promotion....

I completely agree, very well said, thanks for this post.





I don't agree that transformations can't be made to someone with scatflex™. You can easily take a person from a healthy state and tranform that person to an injured state.

good point.. from healthy teen to back injured teen squatflexing with a "belt".. never thought i'd see the day when someone was using a "belt" on a squatflex..  :uhhhfacepalm:
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: John Stamos on December 23, 2010, 11:45:23 pm
ugh

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WngOhlMOHTs
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on December 23, 2010, 11:52:18 pm
ugh

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WngOhlMOHTs

no fucking way... anyone who is opposed to squatflex, please leave comments on flying101's profile, here's mine:

(http://i.imgur.com/C7gaw.png)

saddening shit..




My pm to azur:

Quote
i can't believe you'd put a squatflex video up on your channel USING thacker to sell it.. i thought you had a bigger mission in life? You understand that "machine" can be made for < $10 at home depot, and young kids are going to abuse it and get hurt, parents wasting $297-$497 on that piece of junk? I thought you had a bigger purpose in this life than to make a few $$..

i'm not religious one bit but i live my life to the code, money means nothing to me, integrity and doing right means everything..

http://www.adarq.org/forum/call-em-out/'coaches'-(lol)-who-promote-squatflex-the-list-you-never-want-to-be-on/new/#new

http://www.adarq.org/forum/call-em-out/jumpusa-jumpsoles-squatflex-scam-scammer-fraud/

it's not too late for you to "consider your actions" and take down the video..

seriously man, jumpusa is ruining the performance training industry, hurting young kids, and just stealing all of their parents money with trash equipment like that..

notice the squatflex video on the flying101 channel can't receive comments, why would they do that if it wasn't such a piece of shit.. so pathetic.








(http://i.imgur.com/3aEVI.png)
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: KokoyPinoy on December 24, 2010, 12:30:42 am
WTF! How much does JumpUSA pay for the people on the list to promote scatflex?!  >:(
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on December 24, 2010, 12:45:33 am
WTF! How much does JumpUSA pay for the people on the list to promote scatflex?!  >:(

no idea, but they must pay a good amount for people to promote punkflex.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: KokoyPinoy on December 24, 2010, 01:01:50 am
Well it should be a hell lot of money. It was enough to turn a good christian to a pagan worshiper. (No offense here, seriously.)
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on December 24, 2010, 01:12:11 am
check the end of this post, flying101 deleted my comments and blocked me from commenting, this is just an example of how jumpusa operates.. they are afraid of the truth, i knew they'd delete my comments etc, that's why i took the screenshots.. so if you're some young kid stumbling upon this thread, check this post then sift through the rest of the information and find out how you are being deceived by these scumbag scammers.

peace

Quote
  :uhhhfacepalm:  Man, I sure hope lots of kids dont end up with back injuries this Christmas from their new "presents".  

I agree, I think squatflex should come with a "lifelong membership" to a chiropractic/PT office. Not only are these parents WASTING way too much money on a piece of crap product, their kids will most likely suffer some kind of spinal injury due to overzealous youngsters messing around with WAY too much band tension.

I dno, all-n-all, it's a travesty that anyone would promote that junk..

 :uhhhfacepalm:

Yep, get hurt, get broke, get SQUATFLEXED   :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm:

lol, you put that very well.. What's next, squatflex-shakeweight? Squatflex on a vibration platform?

Imagine a kid opening his present for x-mas, and it's a squatflex, little does he know that it's going to ruin his back for years to come.. Parent's don't know that either.. So, a $497 piece of junk will end up costing well over $2000 once injuries accumulate..

why anyone would promote that garbage is beyond me but whatever.. Some people promote AIDS, it's called bugchasing, same shit.

pc


Exactly man, I cant imagine anyone that would seriously consider that piece of trash after knowing all of the ridiculous things associated with its concepts.  ITs OVERPRICED, DANGEROUS, USELESS, and there are TONS of MUCH MUCH BETTER ALTERNATVES that wont, injure a kid, cause you to not make the rent, and arent associated with internet SCAMMERS.  it baffles me man, hope some of those kids get to read this before they get squatflexed out of training.   :uhhhfacepalm:

i'd love to get Maroko, A-link, etc on here, to help explain why they only promote squatflex during the holiday's, similar to how Hiller did..

I find it funny that it's ONLY promoted during x-mas season, and then these people turn around and tell us that x-mas season has nothing to do with it, you kidding me?

lol shit cracks me up yet pisses me off.


Yep, me too bro. theyre misleading kids, ripping people off, and setting them up for failure and injuries, and they claim theyre OPEN MINDED, yet listen to NOTHING, regardless of how badly their point has been proven ridiculous. True colors shine through in the end man, money talks more than "sense"  ;D to those people.  Maybe one day they will change and try to actually HELP the same kids theyve made their living off of instead of trying to sell them the next jumpusa gimmick. I wont hold my breath tho.  :uhhhfacepalm:

exactly.. it's funny when people claim they are "open", get disproven/smashed, then continue the same old stuff.. These people say, "well my clients don't want to goto a gym!!!" etc, how are you HELPING them if you:

1. enable their "weak fortitude" with a piece of crap
2. increase their risk of injury greatly
3. take way too much money out of their pocket, which could be used to purchase more effective equipment/gym membership etc

all these people are doing, is praying on the "weak sheep", instead of guiding them to the promise land, of REAL effective training..

i guess that's what makes us different than the squatflex promoters, when we see sheep, we try to guide them in the right direction, turn them into wolves, and eventually honey badgers.. people who promote squatflex to them, are just trying to keep them as sheep, keep them down, keep them from achieving their dreams..

that's my take on it.

pc

Great analogy man, dead on with that one.  I get dissapointed in myself for actually thinking that they might be "open minded" only to see the truth come through, theyre manipulators.  People who manipulate are worse than the people who just say "fuck you guys im gonna get these kids to spend cCRAZY money so i can get PAID" .  Takes one hell of a person to mislead a kid thats putting their trust and dreams into something they say, then mislead them down a dead end road over some fucking money.  Wonder how many trash, overpriced, scammer made products Zatsiorsky, Siff, and Verk promoted back in the day. BRB, checking the books.  :uhhhfacepalm:

lol i'm in complete agreement believe it or not.. maroko knows he's full of shit, he ain't going to come on here an B.S.

anyway, the Greats you mentioned would definitely not be in favor of anyone promoting chumpflex to athletes, they'd laugh in their well known accents. They'd laugh at the thought of someone considering themself an "athlete" and wanting to train from home using chumpflex or any of that lameness, then they'd try to get through to them and tell them what it really takes, and what they will have to do in order to achieve success...

LanceSTS, if you ever find an impressive athlete who was "forged using squatflex (chumpflex)", please let me know.. I'd like to know their name and their coach's name, of course they'd have to have some videos though, not this "hiding behind the cloak of deceit" bs.

I appreciate your concern for the youngsters and easily duped athletes lancests, i really do.. I'm glad you're here to help those people in the right direction.

peace man

Man, I will definitely be on the look out for the next elite squatflex forged athlete, I will for sure let you know if I see one and you keep me posted on all the the ones you find as well.  That things been out for several years now so there is bound to be a ton of those elite, squatflex forged, insane athletes.   (U hear that noise bro?, nvrmind, something in the background).  Anyway yea, we will keep an eye out for those phantom squatflexed beasts and make a thread for them when we find all of em.

interesting point actually..

it's been around for a while, yet the only impressive testimonials we've seen from athletes who have used it, are actually lies, such as the B.A., SLAM, and Oh-No video... You'd think if the thing actually improved strength/vert to any degree, that jumpusa wouldn't have to coerce people into LYING to promote their product.. man you make a great point. Chumpflex simply is not effective, if it were, you'd see transformations, which DO NOT EXIST, the only transformations that exist are lies.

I find it fascinating that someone would promote a major product for such a company, thus ruining their entire reputation in the minds of the "legit strength and conditioning community". I mean I speak for every legit s&c coach on this planet, they would not promote that product and thus the pathetic tactics of jumpusa.



thanks for that post lance.

EXCELLENT POINT, any legit coach would laugh their brains out at the concept of it alone, trying to legitimize a piece of trash, made by someone with an IQ score of <4, and come to find out, this damn thing is the REVOLUTION of jump training afterall.  Man, we were in the dark.   Funny that there is ALREADY A VIDEO OF A POOR KID TRAINING ON THAT PIECE OF SHIT, AND IS WEARING A BELT BECAUSE HE INJURED HIS BACK.  The only reason there arent more of those videos is because the rest of the poor kids trying to get one are probably having to save up or getting their parents to put back their hard earned money to buy that piece of trash for them for CHRISTMAS, (of all the times to scam somebody).  Idk man,  I cant imagine the mindset it takes to do that to one of these kids that are training their asses off, taking everything you say and running with it, believing and trusting in you,  and using that influence to mislead them.    :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm:

great point, I lol'd so hard at the comment in bold.. that's exactly it, people promoting a product made by Jumpusa - The combined IQ of their s&c team is 8.

Let me ask you this lance, when a coach promotes squatflex, yet still puts out solid or 'decent' information to the rest of his audience, is he allowed to keep respect? To me, it seems these people are trying to play both sides, trying to "help people with legit info", but make more money on the side by scamming. In my opinion, that causes them to lose all respect/credibility in my eyes.. A-link does that for example, Maroko too, can't think of anyone else at the moment (eh), but those guys just lose all credibility among their peers AND among those athletes who know the difference and have half a brain..

I think we don't see more squatflex videos because parents have to refinance their house, take out loans etc to pay for the damn thing, a camera would just be an added burden.

peace



Thats a great question but really easy for me to answer, HELL NO.  Sure, the knowledgeable athletes know that that part of their advice is purely for money and  a complete bullshit product, but what about the new kids and ones that dont know anything yet? Its ok to sacrifice them?  I sure dont think so, when someone has it in them to cheat you or scam you, how do you know that ANYTHING they say is legit?  What if they just found a more enticing scam and are selling you on that now, too much filtering is required.  Thats one of  the things that you and I share alot about training, its something that means ALOT to us, something pure, a way to HELP athletes who are willing to put in the work, through SCIENCE, to show them a way to succeed.  Once you taint that its gone, over , done, do not pass go, gtfo.

Whats your take on that issue? I think I have a pretty good idea already but Id like it to be posted in this thread for all of the potential customers of those products to have a chance to see when they do a google search of it. :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm:

man I completely agree.. I got another question.. What is your take on someone promoting squatflex, who actually believes in it? Truly believes in it? I personally think that again ruins their credibility. For example, that's like me trying to say I believe in x & y, but I also believe the tooth fairy is real. I mean, come on.

One more question.. Why would anyone continue to promote squatflex (497$) when it can be made at home depot (homeDepotFlex) for ~$10 or less? You have any idea why they would do that? That baffles me.. I don't get it.. To me, that screams "scammer" all over it, that's just my opinion though..

peace

tooth fairy and squatflex, good comparison, both bring money that hasnt been EARNED.   If someone legitimately believed in the tooth fairy, I would first question their sanity if they were over 5 yrs old, then I would explain to them in rational terms what was really going on when they found money under their pillow.  I could even show them their parents bringing the money and putting it under their pillow.  THERE IS A LOGICAL EXPLANATION THAT WOULD CONVINCE ANY HUMAN WITH A HALF A BRAIN CELL THAT THE TOOTH FAIRY IS A FARCE.  Same exact thing with squatflex, I would try to explain to them in clear and sensible terms that it is CLEARLY A SCAMMER PRODUCT, MADE BY SCAMMERS, AND SOLD BY SCAMMERS, TO SCAM KIDS.  If they liked the concept of it, I would explain to them in very clear terms, that there are TONS OF REASONABLY PRICED ALTERNATIVES THAT WOULD YIELD MUCH BETTER RESULTS, AND AT LEAST THE SAME RESULTS, SINCE IT CAN BE MADE FOR NEXT TO NOTHING.  If however, they still did not find any of this simple common sense to be feasible, I would give up hope and realize that the only possible conclusion left would be THEY ARE GAINING SOMETHING THEY DO NOT WANT TO GIVE UP BY PROMOTING THAT PARTICULAR OVERPRICED SCAMMER PRODUCT.

Second question, theyre scammers, 100 percent.  Sooooo many other options have been listed by everyone man, can make the same damn thing for next to nothing, if they still run with the scammer product, got to call a duck a duck.





ugh

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WngOhlMOHTs

no fucking way... anyone who is opposed to squatflex, please leave comments on flying101's profile, here's mine:

(http://i.imgur.com/C7gaw.png)

saddening shit..




My pm to azur:

Quote
i can't believe you'd put a squatflex video up on your channel USING thacker to sell it.. i thought you had a bigger mission in life? You understand that "machine" can be made for < $10 at home depot, and young kids are going to abuse it and get hurt, parents wasting $297-$497 on that piece of junk? I thought you had a bigger purpose in this life than to make a few $$..

i'm not religious one bit but i live my life to the code, money means nothing to me, integrity and doing right means everything..

http://www.adarq.org/forum/call-em-out/'coaches'-(lol)-who-promote-squatflex-the-list-you-never-want-to-be-on/new/#new

http://www.adarq.org/forum/call-em-out/jumpusa-jumpsoles-squatflex-scam-scammer-fraud/

it's not too late for you to "consider your actions" and take down the video..

seriously man, jumpusa is ruining the performance training industry, hurting young kids, and just stealing all of their parents money with trash equipment like that..

notice the squatflex video on the flying101 channel can't receive comments, why would they do that if it wasn't such a piece of shit.. so pathetic.








(http://i.imgur.com/3aEVI.png)




JUST LIKE I THOUGHT, FLYING101 DELETED MY COMMENTS AND BLOCKED ME FROM COMMENTING...

(http://i51.tinypic.com/335azxy.png)

see^^ comments gone..
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: TheSituation on December 24, 2010, 01:16:03 am
Most "good christians" just say that for show. A "good christian" does good through actions, not words.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: KokoyPinoy on December 24, 2010, 01:20:09 am
They are all sick. O God please help them see the light again. :( Don't let them be blinded by greed and laziness.

Omen! I hate greed and laziness! :pissed:
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: KokoyPinoy on December 24, 2010, 01:20:50 am
Most "good christians" just say that for show. A "good christian" does good through actions, not words.

Yes! That's the truth!
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Raptor on December 24, 2010, 05:23:53 am
If there's anything wrong with what adarqui said in that message, is the fact that he actually said you can make a scatflex™ from HomeDepot with 10$. Like, "hey, the scatflex™ concept is not flawed, it helps athletes, it's just that it's expensive" when in fact it's a kid health destroyer, which goes beyond money.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Zetz on December 24, 2010, 01:09:38 pm
What I hate most about that video, is the guy doesn't even have to really care one way or the other about religion. It just adds to marketing. Those who believe what he's selling works just take it as a bonus to the jumping part of his videos. "Oh, he's a kind person and he's trying to help people get better." Those who are skeptical but religious will see it as, "Oh, he's a brother. He wouldn't lie..."

Really? That's insulting, man. Pathetic.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on December 24, 2010, 01:15:23 pm
What I hate most about that video, is the guy doesn't even have to really care one way or the other about religion. It just adds to marketing. Those who believe what he's selling works just take it as a bonus to the jumping part of his videos. "Oh, he's a kind person and he's trying to help people get better." Those who are skeptical but religious will see it as, "Oh, he's a brother. He wouldn't lie..."

Really? That's insulting, man. Pathetic.

ya, flying101 is on some "christian campaign" yet they are advertising a $497 dangerous overpriced piece of junk to their subscribers on youtube, i mean, am i seriously going crazy or is that just insanely foul?????

EVEN WORSE, THEY ARE ON A CHRISTIAN CAMPAIGN, AND ADVERTISING SQUATFLEX FOR CHRISTMAS?????? WTF........

 :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm:






If there's anything wrong with what adarqui said in that message, is the fact that he actually said you can make a scatflex™ from HomeDepot with 10$. Like, "hey, the scatflex™ concept is not flawed, it helps athletes, it's just that it's expensive" when in fact it's a kid health destroyer, which goes beyond money.

i mentioned it was dangerous in my first profile comment post.. the second comment was purely based on money, given the time of year it is and their religious views, i think that's extremely interesting.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: John Stamos on December 24, 2010, 01:50:18 pm
he deleted mine too

whatevs fuck it, we willl just have to make more squatflex videos
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on January 02, 2011, 05:10:58 am
DEAR JACOB HILLER: IT IS JAN 1 2011, YOU TOLD US TO WAIT UNTIL JAN 1, IT'S JAN 1, AND WE'RE JUST DYING OF ANTICIPATION.

WHATS UP?!?!!?
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Zetz on January 02, 2011, 05:25:28 am
Check out the comment flying101 left on their youtube page.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on January 02, 2011, 07:26:08 am
derpa derpa derp, we're flying101 & we're full of shit derpa derpa, derka derk, we delete profile comments because we're full of shit then respond with trash trying to act cool & legit, derka derpa derp

(http://i54.tinypic.com/29bm64l.jpg)
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Raptor on January 02, 2011, 10:17:19 am
So it's all for free?

Dang, these are some remarkable Christians! 8)
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on January 04, 2011, 01:01:26 am
So it's all for free?

Dang, these are some remarkable Christians! 8)

the donations basket requests 497$



lolol



(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4130/5036664645_e8b1b68979_o.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/Iyti5.png)
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Zetz on January 04, 2011, 01:18:55 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHO4uCUwiww

Guy actually doesn't seem bad at all. He keeps a journal! OMGWTF?!?!

The claims towards the end of the video are crazy, but I don't think the stuff in the book is too bad. (But I haven't read it, so who knows?)
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on January 04, 2011, 01:52:32 am
Quote
DEAR JACOB HILLER: IT IS JAN 1 2011, YOU TOLD US TO WAIT UNTIL JAN 1, IT'S JAN 1, AND WE'RE JUST DYING OF ANTICIPATION.

WHATS UP?!?!!?

Just got this....

1st this was a 2 part deal... 1 was that you treat me with respect and "benefit of the doubt" until that date... but I then that went down pretty quick.

2nd my page is being redesigned right now and one of the versions doesn't even have an about section - So that would probably make you happy.  I don't know which version we will end up with, still "tweaking" it etc... (my designer)

3rd I see your point, and I respect that you took off your 4 minute mile (or whatever it was :))... When people ask me what i have done I tell them... I agree with Jack W. about this... and Kelly B. as well talks about the same thing.  Perhaps you disagree with them as well.


Regardless, of what you think of that, I think it's fine to cast doubt on anything that can't be proven with a video... I think that's something rational people like you and others should an do consider when they hear of any past achievements myself or anyone else has.

I'm still considering your idea, but it's more complicated then just removing a section from my website, which is easy...
(in your case it meant telling people you ran a ~4 min mile, and then removing it and now telling people it "never" happened because you don't have proof."  That also sounds reasonable to me...

We are leaving for India again next week and plan to be on the road all year (third year in a row), and the tentative plan is to be back be back in the states... and I would love to journal as you are doing.  I totally respect and admire those who are video journalism their progress.  There can be no doubt to those achievements AND what training methods produced them (for the most part).


Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on January 04, 2011, 03:27:24 am
This was too classic, I had to grab a screen of it:

(http://www.jumpmanual.com/adarq.png)
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on January 04, 2011, 04:35:06 am
edit: oh ok the ad, hah.. tell me how to remove all fitness ads from adsense and i'll get on it, though I already did that.. it has something to do with your viewing preferences probably, I never saw that ad.. anyway.


This was too classic, I had to grab a screen of it:

(http://www.jumpmanual.com/adarq.png)

people who delete comments are usually afraid of something, the comments i left were not inflammatory and they deleted them.. we'll see how long they leave my current comment up.

this is classic, that's why i screenshotted it, "canned corn" etc, these guys are clueless.

(http://i54.tinypic.com/29bm64l.jpg)

no offense btw, but you dodged most questions in this thread, we treated you with respect, we answered all of your questions that you posed to us, you didn't answer a pretty large amount of the questions that had been posed to you, by myself and others.. it's not use going back and digging them up at this point.. but that's the facts of how it went down.

peace
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: LanceSTS on January 04, 2011, 04:43:41 am
This was too classic, I had to grab a screen of it:

(http://www.jumpmanual.com/adarq.png)


LOL, yea thats funny all these damn gimmicks being promoted nowadays lol.  KATAPULT shoes, rofl, ahaha, whats next? Squatflex? lol, good find man. pc
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Raptor on January 04, 2011, 04:51:35 am
I still wait for porn links but...
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: John Stamos on January 04, 2011, 01:27:00 pm
wait soo why did u take a screen shot of my comment and not just quote it?
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: John Stamos on January 04, 2011, 01:28:14 pm
wait soo why did u take a screen shot of my comment and not just quote it?


Like this, figured it was much easier
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on January 04, 2011, 01:51:41 pm
Quote
wait soo why did u take a screen shot of my comment and not just quote it?

Eric, I was taking a shot of the Katapult ad over Adarq forum not your comment. 

...

Quote
no offense btw, but you dodged most questions in this thread, we treated you with respect, we answered all of your questions that you posed to us, you didn't answer a pretty large amount of the questions that had been posed to you, by myself and others.. it's not use going back and digging them up at this point.. but that's the facts of how it went down.

Adarq, I don't feel I was dodging them... honestly I feel we just kept saying the same things in different terms over and over again, and we can probably keep doing it for the next 50 pages of this thread.

IMO, your minds are made up, and I can't change that.  Fair enough... we disagree.

If there is something I can answer you that I haven't I still will, I just feel like most of the questions are the same ones... my answers are also the same, just stated from different angles.  The last thing I want to do is revive the argument so owe can both restate our cases 10 times.

The screen shot was just fro giggles, I know  you don't want that stuff and it's just ads, I just thought it was funny.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on January 04, 2011, 03:27:31 pm
Quote
wait soo why did u take a screen shot of my comment and not just quote it?

Eric, I was taking a shot of the Katapult ad over Adarq forum not your comment.  

...

Quote
no offense btw, but you dodged most questions in this thread, we treated you with respect, we answered all of your questions that you posed to us, you didn't answer a pretty large amount of the questions that had been posed to you, by myself and others.. it's not use going back and digging them up at this point.. but that's the facts of how it went down.

Adarq, I don't feel I was dodging them... honestly I feel we just kept saying the same things in different terms over and over again, and we can probably keep doing it for the next 50 pages of this thread.

IMO, your minds are made up, and I can't change that.  Fair enough... we disagree.

If there is something I can answer you that I haven't I still will, I just feel like most of the questions are the same ones... my answers are also the same, just stated from different angles.  The last thing I want to do is revive the argument so owe can both restate our cases 10 times.

The screen shot was just fro giggles, I know  you don't want that stuff and it's just ads, I just thought it was funny.

i quoted my questions over and over, made them bigger each post, other people left the thread because you wouldn't answer their questions etc. no point in going over it anymore, all anyone has to do is go TRY and read the previous posts and see how it went down.

ya the ad is whack, but what's funny is, i've never seen that ad, wonder if anyone else has, it has alot to do with your browsing history, for example, i get lots of become a personal trainer and gym ads, mostly food ads though etc, lance says he gets freeweight ads, so it makes sense and adds to the humor as to why you got a jumpsole ad.

peace
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on January 04, 2011, 03:32:15 pm
quote.

needed to add this idiotic reply from flying101 to the quote tree:

(http://i54.tinypic.com/29bm64l.jpg)

check the end of this post, flying101 deleted my comments and blocked me from commenting, this is just an example of how jumpusa operates.. they are afraid of the truth, i knew they'd delete my comments etc, that's why i took the screenshots.. so if you're some young kid stumbling upon this thread, check this post then sift through the rest of the information and find out how you are being deceived by these scumbag scammers.

peace

Quote
  :uhhhfacepalm:  Man, I sure hope lots of kids dont end up with back injuries this Christmas from their new "presents".  

I agree, I think squatflex should come with a "lifelong membership" to a chiropractic/PT office. Not only are these parents WASTING way too much money on a piece of crap product, their kids will most likely suffer some kind of spinal injury due to overzealous youngsters messing around with WAY too much band tension.

I dno, all-n-all, it's a travesty that anyone would promote that junk..

 :uhhhfacepalm:

Yep, get hurt, get broke, get SQUATFLEXED   :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm:

lol, you put that very well.. What's next, squatflex-shakeweight? Squatflex on a vibration platform?

Imagine a kid opening his present for x-mas, and it's a squatflex, little does he know that it's going to ruin his back for years to come.. Parent's don't know that either.. So, a $497 piece of junk will end up costing well over $2000 once injuries accumulate..

why anyone would promote that garbage is beyond me but whatever.. Some people promote AIDS, it's called bugchasing, same shit.

pc


Exactly man, I cant imagine anyone that would seriously consider that piece of trash after knowing all of the ridiculous things associated with its concepts.  ITs OVERPRICED, DANGEROUS, USELESS, and there are TONS of MUCH MUCH BETTER ALTERNATVES that wont, injure a kid, cause you to not make the rent, and arent associated with internet SCAMMERS.  it baffles me man, hope some of those kids get to read this before they get squatflexed out of training.   :uhhhfacepalm:

i'd love to get Maroko, A-link, etc on here, to help explain why they only promote squatflex during the holiday's, similar to how Hiller did..

I find it funny that it's ONLY promoted during x-mas season, and then these people turn around and tell us that x-mas season has nothing to do with it, you kidding me?

lol shit cracks me up yet pisses me off.


Yep, me too bro. theyre misleading kids, ripping people off, and setting them up for failure and injuries, and they claim theyre OPEN MINDED, yet listen to NOTHING, regardless of how badly their point has been proven ridiculous. True colors shine through in the end man, money talks more than "sense"  ;D to those people.  Maybe one day they will change and try to actually HELP the same kids theyve made their living off of instead of trying to sell them the next jumpusa gimmick. I wont hold my breath tho.  :uhhhfacepalm:

exactly.. it's funny when people claim they are "open", get disproven/smashed, then continue the same old stuff.. These people say, "well my clients don't want to goto a gym!!!" etc, how are you HELPING them if you:

1. enable their "weak fortitude" with a piece of crap
2. increase their risk of injury greatly
3. take way too much money out of their pocket, which could be used to purchase more effective equipment/gym membership etc

all these people are doing, is praying on the "weak sheep", instead of guiding them to the promise land, of REAL effective training..

i guess that's what makes us different than the squatflex promoters, when we see sheep, we try to guide them in the right direction, turn them into wolves, and eventually honey badgers.. people who promote squatflex to them, are just trying to keep them as sheep, keep them down, keep them from achieving their dreams..

that's my take on it.

pc

Great analogy man, dead on with that one.  I get dissapointed in myself for actually thinking that they might be "open minded" only to see the truth come through, theyre manipulators.  People who manipulate are worse than the people who just say "fuck you guys im gonna get these kids to spend cCRAZY money so i can get PAID" .  Takes one hell of a person to mislead a kid thats putting their trust and dreams into something they say, then mislead them down a dead end road over some fucking money.  Wonder how many trash, overpriced, scammer made products Zatsiorsky, Siff, and Verk promoted back in the day. BRB, checking the books.  :uhhhfacepalm:

lol i'm in complete agreement believe it or not.. maroko knows he's full of shit, he ain't going to come on here an B.S.

anyway, the Greats you mentioned would definitely not be in favor of anyone promoting chumpflex to athletes, they'd laugh in their well known accents. They'd laugh at the thought of someone considering themself an "athlete" and wanting to train from home using chumpflex or any of that lameness, then they'd try to get through to them and tell them what it really takes, and what they will have to do in order to achieve success...

LanceSTS, if you ever find an impressive athlete who was "forged using squatflex (chumpflex)", please let me know.. I'd like to know their name and their coach's name, of course they'd have to have some videos though, not this "hiding behind the cloak of deceit" bs.

I appreciate your concern for the youngsters and easily duped athletes lancests, i really do.. I'm glad you're here to help those people in the right direction.

peace man

Man, I will definitely be on the look out for the next elite squatflex forged athlete, I will for sure let you know if I see one and you keep me posted on all the the ones you find as well.  That things been out for several years now so there is bound to be a ton of those elite, squatflex forged, insane athletes.   (U hear that noise bro?, nvrmind, something in the background).  Anyway yea, we will keep an eye out for those phantom squatflexed beasts and make a thread for them when we find all of em.

interesting point actually..

it's been around for a while, yet the only impressive testimonials we've seen from athletes who have used it, are actually lies, such as the B.A., SLAM, and Oh-No video... You'd think if the thing actually improved strength/vert to any degree, that jumpusa wouldn't have to coerce people into LYING to promote their product.. man you make a great point. Chumpflex simply is not effective, if it were, you'd see transformations, which DO NOT EXIST, the only transformations that exist are lies.

I find it fascinating that someone would promote a major product for such a company, thus ruining their entire reputation in the minds of the "legit strength and conditioning community". I mean I speak for every legit s&c coach on this planet, they would not promote that product and thus the pathetic tactics of jumpusa.



thanks for that post lance.

EXCELLENT POINT, any legit coach would laugh their brains out at the concept of it alone, trying to legitimize a piece of trash, made by someone with an IQ score of <4, and come to find out, this damn thing is the REVOLUTION of jump training afterall.  Man, we were in the dark.   Funny that there is ALREADY A VIDEO OF A POOR KID TRAINING ON THAT PIECE OF SHIT, AND IS WEARING A BELT BECAUSE HE INJURED HIS BACK.  The only reason there arent more of those videos is because the rest of the poor kids trying to get one are probably having to save up or getting their parents to put back their hard earned money to buy that piece of trash for them for CHRISTMAS, (of all the times to scam somebody).  Idk man,  I cant imagine the mindset it takes to do that to one of these kids that are training their asses off, taking everything you say and running with it, believing and trusting in you,  and using that influence to mislead them.    :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm:

great point, I lol'd so hard at the comment in bold.. that's exactly it, people promoting a product made by Jumpusa - The combined IQ of their s&c team is 8.

Let me ask you this lance, when a coach promotes squatflex, yet still puts out solid or 'decent' information to the rest of his audience, is he allowed to keep respect? To me, it seems these people are trying to play both sides, trying to "help people with legit info", but make more money on the side by scamming. In my opinion, that causes them to lose all respect/credibility in my eyes.. A-link does that for example, Maroko too, can't think of anyone else at the moment (eh), but those guys just lose all credibility among their peers AND among those athletes who know the difference and have half a brain..

I think we don't see more squatflex videos because parents have to refinance their house, take out loans etc to pay for the damn thing, a camera would just be an added burden.

peace



Thats a great question but really easy for me to answer, HELL NO.  Sure, the knowledgeable athletes know that that part of their advice is purely for money and  a complete bullshit product, but what about the new kids and ones that dont know anything yet? Its ok to sacrifice them?  I sure dont think so, when someone has it in them to cheat you or scam you, how do you know that ANYTHING they say is legit?  What if they just found a more enticing scam and are selling you on that now, too much filtering is required.  Thats one of  the things that you and I share alot about training, its something that means ALOT to us, something pure, a way to HELP athletes who are willing to put in the work, through SCIENCE, to show them a way to succeed.  Once you taint that its gone, over , done, do not pass go, gtfo.

Whats your take on that issue? I think I have a pretty good idea already but Id like it to be posted in this thread for all of the potential customers of those products to have a chance to see when they do a google search of it. :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm:

man I completely agree.. I got another question.. What is your take on someone promoting squatflex, who actually believes in it? Truly believes in it? I personally think that again ruins their credibility. For example, that's like me trying to say I believe in x & y, but I also believe the tooth fairy is real. I mean, come on.

One more question.. Why would anyone continue to promote squatflex (497$) when it can be made at home depot (homeDepotFlex) for ~$10 or less? You have any idea why they would do that? That baffles me.. I don't get it.. To me, that screams "scammer" all over it, that's just my opinion though..

peace

tooth fairy and squatflex, good comparison, both bring money that hasnt been EARNED.   If someone legitimately believed in the tooth fairy, I would first question their sanity if they were over 5 yrs old, then I would explain to them in rational terms what was really going on when they found money under their pillow.  I could even show them their parents bringing the money and putting it under their pillow.  THERE IS A LOGICAL EXPLANATION THAT WOULD CONVINCE ANY HUMAN WITH A HALF A BRAIN CELL THAT THE TOOTH FAIRY IS A FARCE.  Same exact thing with squatflex, I would try to explain to them in clear and sensible terms that it is CLEARLY A SCAMMER PRODUCT, MADE BY SCAMMERS, AND SOLD BY SCAMMERS, TO SCAM KIDS.  If they liked the concept of it, I would explain to them in very clear terms, that there are TONS OF REASONABLY PRICED ALTERNATIVES THAT WOULD YIELD MUCH BETTER RESULTS, AND AT LEAST THE SAME RESULTS, SINCE IT CAN BE MADE FOR NEXT TO NOTHING.  If however, they still did not find any of this simple common sense to be feasible, I would give up hope and realize that the only possible conclusion left would be THEY ARE GAINING SOMETHING THEY DO NOT WANT TO GIVE UP BY PROMOTING THAT PARTICULAR OVERPRICED SCAMMER PRODUCT.

Second question, theyre scammers, 100 percent.  Sooooo many other options have been listed by everyone man, can make the same damn thing for next to nothing, if they still run with the scammer product, got to call a duck a duck.





ugh

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WngOhlMOHTs

no fucking way... anyone who is opposed to squatflex, please leave comments on flying101's profile, here's mine:

(http://i.imgur.com/C7gaw.png)

saddening shit..




My pm to azur:

Quote
i can't believe you'd put a squatflex video up on your channel USING thacker to sell it.. i thought you had a bigger mission in life? You understand that "machine" can be made for < $10 at home depot, and young kids are going to abuse it and get hurt, parents wasting $297-$497 on that piece of junk? I thought you had a bigger purpose in this life than to make a few $$..

i'm not religious one bit but i live my life to the code, money means nothing to me, integrity and doing right means everything..

http://www.adarq.org/forum/call-em-out/'coaches'-(lol)-who-promote-squatflex-the-list-you-never-want-to-be-on/new/#new

http://www.adarq.org/forum/call-em-out/jumpusa-jumpsoles-squatflex-scam-scammer-fraud/

it's not too late for you to "consider your actions" and take down the video..

seriously man, jumpusa is ruining the performance training industry, hurting young kids, and just stealing all of their parents money with trash equipment like that..

notice the squatflex video on the flying101 channel can't receive comments, why would they do that if it wasn't such a piece of shit.. so pathetic.








(http://i.imgur.com/3aEVI.png)




JUST LIKE I THOUGHT, FLYING101 DELETED MY COMMENTS AND BLOCKED ME FROM COMMENTING...

(http://i51.tinypic.com/335azxy.png)

see^^ comments gone..

Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Jacob Hiller on January 04, 2011, 04:10:58 pm
I thought it has to do with page content, but I think you can go in and block advertisers... I totally don't care though, just thought it was funny.

Well, if there is any in particular questions I can answer that I "dodged" hit me up... I was skipping over questions that I thought my prior post responded to, just because I didn't want this to drag out any longer then it already had.

We both think we "won" the argument, and we are both comfortable that anyone who reads it will make up their own mind - Thanks for letting me come on.



Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: DamienZ on January 04, 2011, 04:25:31 pm
I thought it has to do with page content, but I think you can go in and block advertisers... I totally don't care though, just thought it was funny.

Well, if there is any in particular questions I can answer that I "dodged" hit me up... I was skipping over questions that I thought my prior post responded to, just because I didn't want this to drag out any longer then it already had.

We both think we "won" the argument, and we are both comfortable that anyone who reads it will make up their own mind - Thanks for letting me come on.





whatever, we still want to see you dunk!
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Raptor on January 04, 2011, 04:40:51 pm

ya the ad is whack, but what's funny is, i've never seen that ad, wonder if anyone else has, it has alot to do with your browsing history

I don't think so, otherwise it would be full of porn advertising for me.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on January 04, 2011, 06:01:07 pm

ya the ad is whack, but what's funny is, i've never seen that ad, wonder if anyone else has, it has alot to do with your browsing history

I don't think so, otherwise it would be full of porn advertising for me.

nah, it does work like that.. ads get targeted, you probably have lots of dating site ads lool.

pc
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on January 04, 2011, 06:01:27 pm
I thought it has to do with page content, but I think you can go in and block advertisers... I totally don't care though, just thought it was funny.

Well, if there is any in particular questions I can answer that I "dodged" hit me up... I was skipping over questions that I thought my prior post responded to, just because I didn't want this to drag out any longer then it already had.

We both think we "won" the argument, and we are both comfortable that anyone who reads it will make up their own mind - Thanks for letting me come on.





whatever, we still want to see you dunk!

x2
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: JackW on January 04, 2011, 06:04:08 pm

nah, it does work like that.. ads get targeted, you probably have lots of dating site ads lool.

pc

That would explain all those anti-baldness ads I keep getting  :-[
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on January 04, 2011, 06:08:37 pm

nah, it does work like that.. ads get targeted, you probably have lots of dating site ads lool.

pc

That would explain all those anti-baldness ads I keep getting  :-[

r u serious or kidding? LOL
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: tychver on January 04, 2011, 07:27:01 pm

ya the ad is whack, but what's funny is, i've never seen that ad, wonder if anyone else has, it has alot to do with your browsing history

I don't think so, otherwise it would be full of porn advertising for me.

nah, it does work like that.. ads get targeted, you probably have lots of dating site ads lool.

pc

Once I was having a massive email fight with an ex girlfriend and  I happened to be logging in on a uni computer rather than my computers which all use the customizegoogle extension to remove ads. It pretty much went: site on how to get your girlfriend back, match.com, adult dating. How long is it before googlebot = skynet? :P
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on January 04, 2011, 07:55:58 pm

ya the ad is whack, but what's funny is, i've never seen that ad, wonder if anyone else has, it has alot to do with your browsing history

I don't think so, otherwise it would be full of porn advertising for me.

nah, it does work like that.. ads get targeted, you probably have lots of dating site ads lool.

pc

Once I was having a massive email fight with an ex girlfriend and  I happened to be logging in on a uni computer rather than my computers which all use the customizegoogle extension to remove ads. It pretty much went: site on how to get your girlfriend back, match.com, adult dating. How long is it before googlebot = skynet? :P

that's why i crack up when people complain about "gay dating ads" ....

HEH
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: LanceSTS on January 04, 2011, 10:53:29 pm
quote.

needed to add this idiotic reply from flying101 to the quote tree:

(http://i54.tinypic.com/29bm64l.jpg)

check the end of this post, flying101 deleted my comments and blocked me from commenting, this is just an example of how jumpusa operates.. they are afraid of the truth, i knew they'd delete my comments etc, that's why i took the screenshots.. so if you're some young kid stumbling upon this thread, check this post then sift through the rest of the information and find out how you are being deceived by these scumbag scammers.

peace

Quote
  :uhhhfacepalm:  Man, I sure hope lots of kids dont end up with back injuries this Christmas from their new "presents".  

I agree, I think squatflex should come with a "lifelong membership" to a chiropractic/PT office. Not only are these parents WASTING way too much money on a piece of crap product, their kids will most likely suffer some kind of spinal injury due to overzealous youngsters messing around with WAY too much band tension.

I dno, all-n-all, it's a travesty that anyone would promote that junk..

 :uhhhfacepalm:

Yep, get hurt, get broke, get SQUATFLEXED   :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm:

lol, you put that very well.. What's next, squatflex-shakeweight? Squatflex on a vibration platform?

Imagine a kid opening his present for x-mas, and it's a squatflex, little does he know that it's going to ruin his back for years to come.. Parent's don't know that either.. So, a $497 piece of junk will end up costing well over $2000 once injuries accumulate..

why anyone would promote that garbage is beyond me but whatever.. Some people promote AIDS, it's called bugchasing, same shit.

pc


Exactly man, I cant imagine anyone that would seriously consider that piece of trash after knowing all of the ridiculous things associated with its concepts.  ITs OVERPRICED, DANGEROUS, USELESS, and there are TONS of MUCH MUCH BETTER ALTERNATVES that wont, injure a kid, cause you to not make the rent, and arent associated with internet SCAMMERS.  it baffles me man, hope some of those kids get to read this before they get squatflexed out of training.   :uhhhfacepalm:

i'd love to get Maroko, A-link, etc on here, to help explain why they only promote squatflex during the holiday's, similar to how Hiller did..

I find it funny that it's ONLY promoted during x-mas season, and then these people turn around and tell us that x-mas season has nothing to do with it, you kidding me?

lol shit cracks me up yet pisses me off.


Yep, me too bro. theyre misleading kids, ripping people off, and setting them up for failure and injuries, and they claim theyre OPEN MINDED, yet listen to NOTHING, regardless of how badly their point has been proven ridiculous. True colors shine through in the end man, money talks more than "sense"  ;D to those people.  Maybe one day they will change and try to actually HELP the same kids theyve made their living off of instead of trying to sell them the next jumpusa gimmick. I wont hold my breath tho.  :uhhhfacepalm:

exactly.. it's funny when people claim they are "open", get disproven/smashed, then continue the same old stuff.. These people say, "well my clients don't want to goto a gym!!!" etc, how are you HELPING them if you:

1. enable their "weak fortitude" with a piece of crap
2. increase their risk of injury greatly
3. take way too much money out of their pocket, which could be used to purchase more effective equipment/gym membership etc

all these people are doing, is praying on the "weak sheep", instead of guiding them to the promise land, of REAL effective training..

i guess that's what makes us different than the squatflex promoters, when we see sheep, we try to guide them in the right direction, turn them into wolves, and eventually honey badgers.. people who promote squatflex to them, are just trying to keep them as sheep, keep them down, keep them from achieving their dreams..

that's my take on it.

pc

Great analogy man, dead on with that one.  I get dissapointed in myself for actually thinking that they might be "open minded" only to see the truth come through, theyre manipulators.  People who manipulate are worse than the people who just say "fuck you guys im gonna get these kids to spend cCRAZY money so i can get PAID" .  Takes one hell of a person to mislead a kid thats putting their trust and dreams into something they say, then mislead them down a dead end road over some fucking money.  Wonder how many trash, overpriced, scammer made products Zatsiorsky, Siff, and Verk promoted back in the day. BRB, checking the books.  :uhhhfacepalm:

lol i'm in complete agreement believe it or not.. maroko knows he's full of shit, he ain't going to come on here an B.S.

anyway, the Greats you mentioned would definitely not be in favor of anyone promoting chumpflex to athletes, they'd laugh in their well known accents. They'd laugh at the thought of someone considering themself an "athlete" and wanting to train from home using chumpflex or any of that lameness, then they'd try to get through to them and tell them what it really takes, and what they will have to do in order to achieve success...

LanceSTS, if you ever find an impressive athlete who was "forged using squatflex (chumpflex)", please let me know.. I'd like to know their name and their coach's name, of course they'd have to have some videos though, not this "hiding behind the cloak of deceit" bs.

I appreciate your concern for the youngsters and easily duped athletes lancests, i really do.. I'm glad you're here to help those people in the right direction.

peace man

Man, I will definitely be on the look out for the next elite squatflex forged athlete, I will for sure let you know if I see one and you keep me posted on all the the ones you find as well.  That things been out for several years now so there is bound to be a ton of those elite, squatflex forged, insane athletes.   (U hear that noise bro?, nvrmind, something in the background).  Anyway yea, we will keep an eye out for those phantom squatflexed beasts and make a thread for them when we find all of em.

interesting point actually..

it's been around for a while, yet the only impressive testimonials we've seen from athletes who have used it, are actually lies, such as the B.A., SLAM, and Oh-No video... You'd think if the thing actually improved strength/vert to any degree, that jumpusa wouldn't have to coerce people into LYING to promote their product.. man you make a great point. Chumpflex simply is not effective, if it were, you'd see transformations, which DO NOT EXIST, the only transformations that exist are lies.

I find it fascinating that someone would promote a major product for such a company, thus ruining their entire reputation in the minds of the "legit strength and conditioning community". I mean I speak for every legit s&c coach on this planet, they would not promote that product and thus the pathetic tactics of jumpusa.



thanks for that post lance.

EXCELLENT POINT, any legit coach would laugh their brains out at the concept of it alone, trying to legitimize a piece of trash, made by someone with an IQ score of <4, and come to find out, this damn thing is the REVOLUTION of jump training afterall.  Man, we were in the dark.   Funny that there is ALREADY A VIDEO OF A POOR KID TRAINING ON THAT PIECE OF SHIT, AND IS WEARING A BELT BECAUSE HE INJURED HIS BACK.  The only reason there arent more of those videos is because the rest of the poor kids trying to get one are probably having to save up or getting their parents to put back their hard earned money to buy that piece of trash for them for CHRISTMAS, (of all the times to scam somebody).  Idk man,  I cant imagine the mindset it takes to do that to one of these kids that are training their asses off, taking everything you say and running with it, believing and trusting in you,  and using that influence to mislead them.    :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm:

great point, I lol'd so hard at the comment in bold.. that's exactly it, people promoting a product made by Jumpusa - The combined IQ of their s&c team is 8.

Let me ask you this lance, when a coach promotes squatflex, yet still puts out solid or 'decent' information to the rest of his audience, is he allowed to keep respect? To me, it seems these people are trying to play both sides, trying to "help people with legit info", but make more money on the side by scamming. In my opinion, that causes them to lose all respect/credibility in my eyes.. A-link does that for example, Maroko too, can't think of anyone else at the moment (eh), but those guys just lose all credibility among their peers AND among those athletes who know the difference and have half a brain..

I think we don't see more squatflex videos because parents have to refinance their house, take out loans etc to pay for the damn thing, a camera would just be an added burden.

peace



Thats a great question but really easy for me to answer, HELL NO.  Sure, the knowledgeable athletes know that that part of their advice is purely for money and  a complete bullshit product, but what about the new kids and ones that dont know anything yet? Its ok to sacrifice them?  I sure dont think so, when someone has it in them to cheat you or scam you, how do you know that ANYTHING they say is legit?  What if they just found a more enticing scam and are selling you on that now, too much filtering is required.  Thats one of  the things that you and I share alot about training, its something that means ALOT to us, something pure, a way to HELP athletes who are willing to put in the work, through SCIENCE, to show them a way to succeed.  Once you taint that its gone, over , done, do not pass go, gtfo.

Whats your take on that issue? I think I have a pretty good idea already but Id like it to be posted in this thread for all of the potential customers of those products to have a chance to see when they do a google search of it. :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm:

man I completely agree.. I got another question.. What is your take on someone promoting squatflex, who actually believes in it? Truly believes in it? I personally think that again ruins their credibility. For example, that's like me trying to say I believe in x & y, but I also believe the tooth fairy is real. I mean, come on.

One more question.. Why would anyone continue to promote squatflex (497$) when it can be made at home depot (homeDepotFlex) for ~$10 or less? You have any idea why they would do that? That baffles me.. I don't get it.. To me, that screams "scammer" all over it, that's just my opinion though..

peace

tooth fairy and squatflex, good comparison, both bring money that hasnt been EARNED.   If someone legitimately believed in the tooth fairy, I would first question their sanity if they were over 5 yrs old, then I would explain to them in rational terms what was really going on when they found money under their pillow.  I could even show them their parents bringing the money and putting it under their pillow.  THERE IS A LOGICAL EXPLANATION THAT WOULD CONVINCE ANY HUMAN WITH A HALF A BRAIN CELL THAT THE TOOTH FAIRY IS A FARCE.  Same exact thing with squatflex, I would try to explain to them in clear and sensible terms that it is CLEARLY A SCAMMER PRODUCT, MADE BY SCAMMERS, AND SOLD BY SCAMMERS, TO SCAM KIDS.  If they liked the concept of it, I would explain to them in very clear terms, that there are TONS OF REASONABLY PRICED ALTERNATIVES THAT WOULD YIELD MUCH BETTER RESULTS, AND AT LEAST THE SAME RESULTS, SINCE IT CAN BE MADE FOR NEXT TO NOTHING.  If however, they still did not find any of this simple common sense to be feasible, I would give up hope and realize that the only possible conclusion left would be THEY ARE GAINING SOMETHING THEY DO NOT WANT TO GIVE UP BY PROMOTING THAT PARTICULAR OVERPRICED SCAMMER PRODUCT.

Second question, theyre scammers, 100 percent.  Sooooo many other options have been listed by everyone man, can make the same damn thing for next to nothing, if they still run with the scammer product, got to call a duck a duck.





ugh

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WngOhlMOHTs

no fucking way... anyone who is opposed to squatflex, please leave comments on flying101's profile, here's mine:

(http://i.imgur.com/C7gaw.png)

saddening shit..




My pm to azur:

Quote
i can't believe you'd put a squatflex video up on your channel USING thacker to sell it.. i thought you had a bigger mission in life? You understand that "machine" can be made for < $10 at home depot, and young kids are going to abuse it and get hurt, parents wasting $297-$497 on that piece of junk? I thought you had a bigger purpose in this life than to make a few $$..

i'm not religious one bit but i live my life to the code, money means nothing to me, integrity and doing right means everything..

http://www.adarq.org/forum/call-em-out/'coaches'-(lol)-who-promote-squatflex-the-list-you-never-want-to-be-on/new/#new

http://www.adarq.org/forum/call-em-out/jumpusa-jumpsoles-squatflex-scam-scammer-fraud/

it's not too late for you to "consider your actions" and take down the video..

seriously man, jumpusa is ruining the performance training industry, hurting young kids, and just stealing all of their parents money with trash equipment like that..

notice the squatflex video on the flying101 channel can't receive comments, why would they do that if it wasn't such a piece of shit.. so pathetic.








(http://i.imgur.com/3aEVI.png)




JUST LIKE I THOUGHT, FLYING101 DELETED MY COMMENTS AND BLOCKED ME FROM COMMENTING...

(http://i51.tinypic.com/335azxy.png)

see^^ comments gone..

x2
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Raptor on December 15, 2012, 02:37:06 pm
Anybody know what happened to shitflex lately?
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on December 15, 2012, 04:59:12 pm
Anybody know what happened to shitflex lately?

whao good point.. isnt this prime advertising time for them?
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Raptor on December 15, 2012, 06:22:12 pm
Anybody know what happened to shitflex lately?

whao good point.. isnt this prime advertising time for them?


Yeah I guess negative publicity on adarq.org is pretty good publicity for them.

Ok, maybe not.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: mdevin93 on December 18, 2012, 10:56:48 pm
just got an email from jacob through his mailing list...im disappointed to say the least

http://www.squatflexfacts.com/
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Raptor on December 19, 2012, 02:46:58 am
Why the heck are you dissapointed? It's all about the money. What, you thought these guys have principles or something?
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: mdevin93 on December 19, 2012, 11:45:52 am
i know its all about money and shit and deceptive marketing, but i thought once jacob hit the jackpot he'd stop endorsing it let alone creating an ENTIRE FREAKING WEBSITE dedicated to a lie. i know you guys here have mixed emotions about him, but i thought he was finished with the whole squat flex thing especially since he's netted over a million dollars.

you can't argue that he's a good guy, knowledgable, and in my opinion made the "starting strength" of vertical jump programs. endorsing squat flex is one thing, creating a website around a lie is a whole different animal. its almost like squat flex is the illuminati of vertical jump training haha.

its only a matter of time before this clown starts endorsing it

http://www.youtube.com/user/TheVerticalJumpTruth


if you want a good laugh, id suggest taking 15-20 minutes out of your day and watching this dudes vids haha
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Raptor on December 19, 2012, 01:05:36 pm
and in my opinion made the "starting strength" of vertical jump programs

Now you're insulting him eh? Way to go.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: mdevin93 on December 19, 2012, 07:11:14 pm
What's that supposed to mean? All I meant by it was he made a basic yet effective program for beginners, just like starting strength (which I thought to be pretty understood). You can't deny that fact. No matter what opinions you may have of rip and jacob, the outrageous claims they make, or whatever negative bias you have towards them, you can't deny that they are solid yet basic and informative programs for beginners. Don't think I ever planned on insulting jacob or compare him to the man who made starting strength in any way.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on December 19, 2012, 07:46:58 pm
i'll never get over my hate for squatflex.. disappointing that Jacob still endorses that overpriced dangerous piece of crap equipment.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Raptor on December 20, 2012, 01:41:23 am
i'll never get over my hate for squatflex.. disappointing that Jacob still endorses that overpriced dangerous piece of crap equipment.

It's weird but I bet in between scatflex buyers there are some that say they can't afford to pay for a gym membership. I guess buying that is better invested money. What's the price nowadays?
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: mdevin93 on December 20, 2012, 01:47:57 pm
conveniently priced at $297 for a limited time only. get yours before christmas or else its going to go back up to just 497...
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: LBSS on December 20, 2012, 02:20:04 pm
vertecs are also outrageously expensive. not really on-topic, just thought i'd mention it.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Raptor on December 20, 2012, 03:49:20 pm
conveniently priced at $297 for a limited time only. get yours before christmas or else its going to go back up to just 497...

FUCK!

brb, getting 2 while I still can
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: John Stamos on December 21, 2012, 09:59:09 pm
300 dollars per year is about the average price of a good sized gyms these days, so if you can afford a squatflex then you should be able to afford 25 dollars a month for a gym.  On a side note im going to look up the video where adarq called out pgd because they said squatflex gave them their verts.  If they ban assault rifles, they should ban squatflex as well
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: adarqui on December 22, 2012, 06:01:48 am
300 dollars per year is about the average price of a good sized gyms these days, so if you can afford a squatflex then you should be able to afford 25 dollars a month for a gym.  On a side note im going to look up the video where adarq called out pgd because they said squatflex gave them their verts.  If they ban assault rifles, they should ban squatflex as well

that video was so pathetic, i remember it. all of them talking about how squatflex got them their first dunk etc..was a pretty sad & pathetic video.. what was it, 3 people claiming it got them their first dunk? yet all of them natural dunkers for years?

lmao

ya the not having access to a gym b.s. is a dumb excuse.. plus for $300 you could get olympic db's, a decent amount of 10 lb plates for rows/bench/press/lunges/single leg squat/bss etc, and some heavy duty jump stretch bands for your own home-made squatflex  at 1/100th of the cost

derp to them.
Title: Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
Post by: Raptor on December 22, 2012, 07:41:58 am
300 dollars per year is about the average price of a good sized gyms these days, so if you can afford a squatflex then you should be able to afford 25 dollars a month for a gym.  On a side note im going to look up the video where adarq called out pgd because they said squatflex gave them their verts.  If they ban assault rifles, they should ban squatflex as well

I hope they don't ban assault rifles! You guys need them to kill each other in the name of freedom!