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Members Area => CALL EM OUT => Topic started by: adarqui on December 20, 2010, 03:45:04 pm

Title: Do you have to be a "decent athlete" to coach athletes to success?
Post by: adarqui on December 20, 2010, 03:45:04 pm
Well, do you? Can you be overweight, unathletic, uncoordinated, etc, and still coach athletes to success? We're talking real success here, not just some stupid personal trainer BS. We're talking significant gains in performance over the course of say an athlete's college career, high school career, pro career, olympic career, etc.

Inquiring minds want to know!
Title: Re: Do you have to be a "decent athlete" to coach athletes to success?
Post by: adarqui on December 20, 2010, 03:48:22 pm
VOTE BEFORE READING MY REPLY U LEECH!

















I voted "no", although, I feel coaches should be athletes in order to become more in tune with what it actually takes on a physiological and mental level. Sure, a coach can be super unathletic and still be a very successful coach, but I think a person like this, would be EVEN MORE SUCCESSFUL if he was a dedicated athlete himself. So, sure he can get great results with his clients, hence the "no" answer to the poll, but I think he would get BETTER results if he knew what it really meant to TRY and become the best, on that busting your ass painful as fuck slow grind we call "performance enhancement".

peace
Title: Re: Do you have to be a "decent athlete" to coach athletes to success?
Post by: BMully on December 20, 2010, 03:52:50 pm
I would take advice from a nerdy trainer that is weaker than me..If that advice/workout was really good

The thing is, even though this person is unathletic, they should be working out and training hard.  I have taken alot of advice from strong football players(never followed) that is not worth anything at all.

there are many nba,nfl, and other pro's who are beast  in the weight room and on the field but don't have any better workout than one i could make up in 10min.

my point is, I don't care as to the level of the guy training me. I just want somebody knowledgable who actually "takes his own medicine."
Title: Re: Do you have to be a "decent athlete" to coach athletes to success?
Post by: LBSS on December 20, 2010, 04:20:56 pm
No. Unequivocally, no.
Title: Re: Do you have to be a "decent athlete" to coach athletes to success?
Post by: LBSS on December 20, 2010, 04:23:44 pm
Quote from: BMully
my point is, I don't care as to the level of the guy training me. I just want somebody knowledgable who actually "takes his own medicine."

 I actually don't even care about this part, and neither should anybody else. I would take advice from a quadriplegic if I had reason to believe that person's advice was sound.
Title: Re: Do you have to be a "decent athlete" to coach athletes to success?
Post by: Raptor on December 20, 2010, 04:41:59 pm
Voted no. Stephen Hawkins doesn't need arms and legs to decipher quantum physics.
Title: Re: Do you have to be a "decent athlete" to coach athletes to success?
Post by: BMully on December 20, 2010, 04:45:25 pm
Voted no. Stephen Hawkins doesn't need arms and legs to decipher quantum physics.

Great logic lol
Title: Re: Do you have to be a "decent athlete" to coach athletes to success?
Post by: JackW on December 20, 2010, 05:36:52 pm
I voted no but I think in some cases it certainly helps. Having spent 2 years dedicating my training exclusively to vertical jump improvement I believe this does give me a much greater degree of insight into what it takes to increase your vertical jump.

I know there have been many occasions where some of my clients and customers have hit sticking points in their results and because I went through the same thing I knew what to do to get them going again.

Now having said that, I also don't think it is 100% necessary. With enough experience just coaching I think you can see enough common issues with different people that over tiem you would be able to identify the problems and propose solutions.
Title: Re: Do you have to be a "decent athlete" to coach athletes to success?
Post by: LBSS on December 20, 2010, 05:43:37 pm
Great basketball coach (on the left there):

(http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2006/sioncampus/06/14/stan.vangundy/p1_svg.jpg)

Great football coach (in the front there):

(http://turbo.indyposted.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/joe-paterno.jpg)

Great nutrition and training guru on whose nuts I swing (with the glasses there):

(http://www.fitnwell.net/LyleMcDonald1.jpg)

Q.E.D.
Title: Re: Do you have to be a "decent athlete" to coach athletes to success?
Post by: DamienZ on December 20, 2010, 06:11:52 pm
Isnt there some saying like: the best coaches are the ones that had to work hardest to get to average athletic levels or something like this...

I can say about myself that im a great tricking coach, as im not genetically gifted for that sport, so i had to get great technique and really understand it to land most tricks. i asked some of the best trickers (freaks of nature/genetically very gifted) about advice for specific tricks and they didnt even knew how exactly they were doing it, as they didnt really had to practice it thousands of hour to land it...
Title: Re: Do you have to be a "decent athlete" to coach athletes to success?
Post by: BMully on December 20, 2010, 06:13:26 pm
Isnt there some saying like: the best coaches are the ones that had to work hardest to get to average athletic levels or something like this...

I can say about myself that im a great tricking coach, as im not genetically gifted for that sport, so i had to get great technique and really understand it to land most tricks. i asked some of the best trickers (freaks of nature/genetically very gifted) about advice for specific tricks and they didnt even knew how exactly they were doing it, as they didnt really had to practice it thousands of hour to land it...

what exactly do you do Damien?
Title: Re: Do you have to be a "decent athlete" to coach athletes to success?
Post by: DamienZ on December 20, 2010, 06:25:31 pm
Isnt there some saying like: the best coaches are the ones that had to work hardest to get to average athletic levels or something like this...

I can say about myself that im a great tricking coach, as im not genetically gifted for that sport, so i had to get great technique and really understand it to land most tricks. i asked some of the best trickers (freaks of nature/genetically very gifted) about advice for specific tricks and they didnt even knew how exactly they were doing it, as they didnt really had to practice it thousands of hour to land it...

what exactly do you do Damien?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UV0oRpiyXqk
video is from 2007 (before strenftraining)...
Title: Re: Do you have to be a "decent athlete" to coach athletes to success?
Post by: BMully on December 20, 2010, 06:50:09 pm
Isnt there some saying like: the best coaches are the ones that had to work hardest to get to average athletic levels or something like this...

I can say about myself that im a great tricking coach, as im not genetically gifted for that sport, so i had to get great technique and really understand it to land most tricks. i asked some of the best trickers (freaks of nature/genetically very gifted) about advice for specific tricks and they didnt even knew how exactly they were doing it, as they didnt really had to practice it thousands of hour to land it...

what exactly do you do Damien?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UV0oRpiyXqk
video is from 2007 (before strenftraining)...

Oh whoa, that's pretty cool..I was thinking about starting parkour sometime soon..but that looks =ly cool
Title: Re: Do you have to be a "decent athlete" to coach athletes to success?
Post by: JackW on December 20, 2010, 07:04:26 pm
That video is totaly cool Damien. Especially as you appear to be pretty tall. Impressive.
Title: Re: Do you have to be a "decent athlete" to coach athletes to success?
Post by: mike.1283 on December 20, 2010, 07:40:58 pm
I say no, but understand both perspectives.  Even tho some don't/won't consider me a coach, I take a lot of pride in considering myself a coach.  That being said I've never had over a 24" vertical jump and ever since college I've been overweight, losing and gaining a lot of weight multiple times since then.  As a kid I bought jumpsoles and did depth jumps for over a half hour 5 days a week, on top of that not doing hardly any weights and playing basketball during the seasons, the only result of that was jumpers knee.

I wish I knew back then what I know now because chances are I wouldn't be sitting here with a bum ankle (torn cartildge/"osteochondritis dissesans") and I'd probably be much closer to my goals.  I can talk nutrition with the best of them, but it doesn't mean I follow it myself.  I've worked with professional golfers and I myself shoot in the 80s (played Varsity HS golf and could've played at college level).

All that being said I've always struggled to sell Personal Training working in commercial gyms, because people see a "fat kid" and don't think I am capable of giving good advice.  Meanwhile I've worked with trainers who are in good shape, and have had the worst workouts and ideas for workouts ever.  I mean seeing a client a half hour a week, but still trying to focus on 1 specific bodypart that workout.  Even tho I know that that's not what we're talking about here (coaching vs personal training).  Just my thoughts tho.
Title: Re: Do you have to be a "decent athlete" to coach athletes to success?
Post by: DamienZ on December 20, 2010, 08:03:16 pm
That video is totaly cool Damien. Especially as you appear to be pretty tall. Impressive.

thx Jack! im 6'2 and about 140l in that vid (lol) (now im 187)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkKkOL8pa_M (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkKkOL8pa_M)
Thats a never vid of my group!
Title: Re: Do you have to be a "decent athlete" to coach athletes to success?
Post by: Zetz on December 21, 2010, 01:50:59 am
I say no because only a few of my coaches have been great athletes themselves. My current hurdle coach knows what he's doing quite well despite the fact that he's starting to get older. He's told us how he only did sprints in high school and college but he never goes on about just how good he was. More than once he's mentioned how he didn't continue hurdles because he fell over one pretty bad in high school and never did them again. Do I still listen to his coaching even though he was never "elite?" Absolutely. Man knows what he's talking about.
Title: Re: Do you have to be a "decent athlete" to coach athletes to success?
Post by: BMully on December 21, 2010, 01:56:50 am
GO TO THE GYM, SQUAT 350lbs incorrectly, THEN tell the little kid watching you all about squatting(improperly)

^^The results/decent athlete part of the equation must be sure fire..NO guys who half squat and then tell you all about the squat(adarq?)..I want a guy who full squats 500lbs and knows how to train, that is optimal..or a guy who has a degree for S&C that is working to get that 500lbs(NOT A GUY WHO SITS ON HIS ASS)

like my () adarq?
and I don't know how i called you out on the half-squat, but it happened lol..don't really mean it meanly.You get results for what you want to squat for  ;)
Title: Re: Do you have to be a "decent athlete" to coach athletes to success?
Post by: LBSS on December 21, 2010, 03:10:02 pm
I say no because only a few of my coaches have been great athletes themselves. My current hurdle coach knows what he's doing quite well despite the fact that he's starting to get older. He's told us how he only did sprints in high school and college but he never goes on about just how good he was. More than once he's mentioned how he didn't continue hurdles because he fell over one pretty bad in high school and never did them again. Do I still listen to his coaching even though he was never "elite?" Absolutely. Man knows what he's talking about.

Agree. If the coach is super accomplished him/herself, well, that's cool. But to be a good coach you have to know your stuff, understand how to apply it to real people, and be able to communicate it well. Anything less than that and you can't be a good coach. Anything more is gravy, IMO.
Title: Re: Do you have to be a "decent athlete" to coach athletes to success?
Post by: Zetz on December 21, 2010, 03:20:39 pm
I say no because only a few of my coaches have been great athletes themselves. My current hurdle coach knows what he's doing quite well despite the fact that he's starting to get older. He's told us how he only did sprints in high school and college but he never goes on about just how good he was. More than once he's mentioned how he didn't continue hurdles because he fell over one pretty bad in high school and never did them again. Do I still listen to his coaching even though he was never "elite?" Absolutely. Man knows what he's talking about.

Agree. If the coach is super accomplished him/herself, well, that's cool. But to be a good coach you have to know your stuff, understand how to apply it to real people, and be able to communicate it well. Anything less than that and you can't be a good coach. Anything more is gravy, IMO.

Haha. Nice way to put it.
Title: Re: Do you have to be a "decent athlete" to coach athletes to success?
Post by: adarqui on December 21, 2010, 04:17:50 pm
I say no because only a few of my coaches have been great athletes themselves. My current hurdle coach knows what he's doing quite well despite the fact that he's starting to get older. He's told us how he only did sprints in high school and college but he never goes on about just how good he was. More than once he's mentioned how he didn't continue hurdles because he fell over one pretty bad in high school and never did them again. Do I still listen to his coaching even though he was never "elite?" Absolutely. Man knows what he's talking about.

Agree. If the coach is super accomplished him/herself, well, that's cool. But to be a good coach you have to know your stuff, understand how to apply it to real people, and be able to communicate it well. Anything less than that and you can't be a good coach. Anything more is gravy, IMO.

both good posts.

ps: Ignoring bmully.
Title: Re: Do you have to be a "decent athlete" to coach athletes to success?
Post by: BMully on December 21, 2010, 04:30:09 pm
ps: Ignoring bmully.
................................................................................
Title: Re: Do you have to be a "decent athlete" to coach athletes to success?
Post by: Zetz on December 21, 2010, 04:47:17 pm
ps: Ignoring bmully.
................................................................................

Dully noted.
Title: Re: Do you have to be a "decent athlete" to coach athletes to success?
Post by: JoelJ on January 11, 2011, 04:19:28 pm
I voted no, but I'm starting to re-think it as I'm not so sure.

What do you mean by "decent athlete"?

Some basketball coaches are good even though they were never athletic. Same goes for some boxing coaches, though that's rare AFAIK. These coaches are more about strategy and technique though. I believe most good S&C coaches are at the least, "decent" athletes.
Title: Re: Do you have to be a "decent athlete" to coach athletes to success?
Post by: DamienZ on January 11, 2011, 06:37:36 pm
He who can, does. He who cannot, teaches.
George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950), Man and Superman (1903) "Maxims for Revolutionists"
Title: Re: Do you have to be a "decent athlete" to coach athletes to success?
Post by: LBSS on January 11, 2011, 07:38:22 pm
He who can, does. He who cannot, teaches.
George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950), Man and Superman (1903) "Maxims for Revolutionists"

I always thought that saying was absolute crap. Teaching is doing and it's hard as fuck. Most people are terrible at it.
Title: Re: Do you have to be a "decent athlete" to coach athletes to success?
Post by: AlexV on January 11, 2011, 08:48:32 pm
I think that a person must train for something.  You shouldn;t just write programs.  Do you need to be a decent athlete?  What is an athlete.  I Pl'ed for a while and squatted 700.  I couldn;t dunk and did not look pretty.  But I knew about bustin ass for a goal.  Many moons ago I trained with an elite MMA team, was never great...  Decent?  Maybe, maybe not.  But again, bustin ass towards a goal.

So you don;t need to be "elite" but a coach should know how to train properly, and train hard.

I would never listen to a coach who could not properly do the exercise they are coaching.
Title: Re: Do you have to be a "decent athlete" to coach athletes to success?
Post by: BMully on January 11, 2011, 09:05:41 pm

I would never listen to a coach who could not properly do the exercise they are coaching.

that.
Title: Re: Do you have to be a "decent athlete" to coach athletes to success?
Post by: Raptor on January 12, 2011, 03:16:22 am
Many moons ago

Haha, we use the term "luni" which means "moons" for months in Romanian too. 8)
Title: Re: Do you have to be a "decent athlete" to coach athletes to success?
Post by: Raptor on January 12, 2011, 03:17:58 am

I would never listen to a coach who could not properly do the exercise they are coaching.

that.

Would you listen to a fat nutritionist? What about a handicapped trainer? What about a ugly fashion artist?
Title: Re: Do you have to be a "decent athlete" to coach athletes to success?
Post by: swatts on January 12, 2011, 10:04:07 pm
No..... There are many different roads from A to B
Title: Re: Do you have to be a "decent athlete" to coach athletes to success?
Post by: BMully on January 12, 2011, 10:31:44 pm

I would never listen to a coach who could not properly do the exercise they are coaching.

that.

Would you listen to a fat nutritionist? What about a handicapped trainer? What about a ugly fashion artist?


I mean it's a risk. But it's their KNOWLEDGE THAT I WANT, not thier will to actually do it. The conflict is that most of the time a fat nutritionist does not know much about nutrition.........
Title: Re: Do you have to be a "decent athlete" to coach athletes to success?
Post by: Zetz on January 13, 2011, 12:15:35 am

I would never listen to a coach who could not properly do the exercise they are coaching.

that.

Would you listen to a fat nutritionist? What about a handicapped trainer? What about a ugly fashion artist?

Fat nutritionist... no. Handicapped trainer... yes. Ugly fashion artist... yes.
^his choice...............^ probably an accident........^ born that way.

I think you have to at least have BEEN a good athlete, or at least worked towards a goal. People have physical limitations. Why would a world recorder holder in any given event get coaching from someone else? Shouldn't he/she be coaching him/herself? After all this person is the best in the WORLD at what they do. Usually the trainers or coaches were never too well known or very competitive. You have to know what you're doing. Age, genetics, accidents, physical limitations, etc. can all stop someone from being a "decent" athlete, but that doesn't mean the person doesn't know what he/she is doing.
Title: Re: Do you have to be a "decent athlete" to coach athletes to success?
Post by: AlexV on January 13, 2011, 01:08:49 am
Another point,

I trust Doc Allen and Ivo Waerlop more than anyone when it pertains to gait cycle, muscle recruitment patterns, etc... (read speed) than most anyone else and I am positive they have never been an elite athlete. 

They sure know a hell of a lot about human movement.  That is what counts
Title: Re: Do you have to be a "decent athlete" to coach athletes to success?
Post by: Raptor on January 13, 2011, 07:59:50 am

I would never listen to a coach who could not properly do the exercise they are coaching.

that.

Would you listen to a fat nutritionist? What about a handicapped trainer? What about a ugly fashion artist?

Fat nutritionist... no. Handicapped trainer... yes. Ugly fashion artist... yes.
^his choice...............^ probably an accident........^ born that way.


It's hard to judge that way because you can take it both ways:

Fat nutritionist: Maybe he doesn't care about his body or appearance so he stays fat, likes cookies etc, but that doesn't mean his advice is bad. Or, maybe he thinks he knows stuff and applies that to himself, but he sucks so that's why he's fat.

Handicapped trainer: Maybe he had bad luck and got injured and handicapped and he knows his stuff or maybe he practiced weight training with bad form and that got him handicapped so he will do that to you too.

Ugly fashion artist: Maybe he was born that way but you could also expect him to know enough about fashion to make an ugly person look at least respectable.

So you see, you can always go both ways with it.
Title: Re: Do you have to be a "decent athlete" to coach athletes to success?
Post by: Nightfly on January 13, 2011, 05:52:22 pm
I voted no. Maybe  someone who is phyiscally not really gifted likes reading a lot, and documenting himself and experimenting routines etc, so he can be a helluva coach but not even a decent athlete so....