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Members Area => CALL EM OUT => Topic started by: tychver on May 04, 2011, 01:22:34 am

Title: Internet douchebaggery by Mark Rippetoe and Jim Moser
Post by: tychver on May 04, 2011, 01:22:34 am
http://startingstrength.com/resources/forum/showthread.php?t=23226&page=1 (http://startingstrength.com/resources/forum/showthread.php?t=23226&page=1)
:pissed:

The level of asshattery in this thread is by Rippetoe and Moser simply astounding.
Title: Re: Internet douchebaggery by Mark Rippetoe and Jim Moser
Post by: LBSS on May 04, 2011, 10:19:15 am
alright, hickson. your new goal is to snatch and C&J more than that chick. cause i'm for damn sure never going to snatch 146kg or C&J 179.

go get it.

EDIT: Also, 80smediumsized is one of the best user names I've ever seen.
Title: Re: Internet douchebaggery by Mark Rippetoe and Jim Moser
Post by: TheSituation on May 04, 2011, 12:19:13 pm
(http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd404/Batman348/Victoria%20Justice%20II/tumblr_li03ahMzuq1qbmlzr.gif)
Title: Re: Internet douchebaggery by Mark Rippetoe and Jim Moser
Post by: LanceSTS on May 04, 2011, 12:37:31 pm
 Man, im really dissapointed in that, Pendlay is as solid and legit as a coach as you can find, and is doing big things with the team right now.   
Title: Re: Internet douchebaggery by Mark Rippetoe and Jim Moser
Post by: TheSituation on May 04, 2011, 02:41:25 pm
The guy who has a 300 page book about technique for 5 exercises is anti technique?





brb being 17% bodyfat
(http://startingstrength.com/images/100301_front.jpg)
Title: Re: Internet douchebaggery by Mark Rippetoe and Jim Moser
Post by: Raptor on May 04, 2011, 02:54:44 pm
Well to him, that's manly. Watch how any powerlifter looks and you get the idea.
Title: Re: Internet douchebaggery by Mark Rippetoe and Jim Moser
Post by: LBSS on May 04, 2011, 03:25:23 pm
where does he say he's anti technique?
Title: Re: Internet douchebaggery by Mark Rippetoe and Jim Moser
Post by: TheSituation on May 04, 2011, 03:58:14 pm
where does he say he's anti technique?

He doesn't say that directly, but it seemed like he was implying they spend too much time on technique and not enough on get stronger on the squat/deadlift.
Title: Re: Internet douchebaggery by Mark Rippetoe and Jim Moser
Post by: lamp on May 04, 2011, 04:52:20 pm
Other than disrespecting Pendlay, who I think is a great coach, there are many good points being made in that thread...


the US does need to get stronger & rippetoe is right, in the US the best athletes do not olympic weightlift.
Title: Re: Internet douchebaggery by Mark Rippetoe and Jim Moser
Post by: tychver on May 04, 2011, 10:22:03 pm
alright, hickson. your new goal is to snatch and C&J more than that chick. cause i'm for damn sure never going to snatch 146kg or C&J 179.

go get it.

EDIT: Also, 80smediumsized is one of the best user names I've ever seen.

Comparing directly on bodyweight between the genders is totally unfair. If you want a fair comparison for a US guy against Titana you look at Shane Hamman's 197.5 snatch 240 clean and jerk. Titiana's a freak lifter. She beat the previous snatch WR by a full 5kg.

I think it also kinda belittles the ridiculous strength of these girls when you say that any guy unable to out lift them isn't strong.
Title: Re: Internet douchebaggery by Mark Rippetoe and Jim Moser
Post by: tychver on May 04, 2011, 10:37:18 pm
Other than disrespecting Pendlay, who I think is a great coach, there are many good points being made in that thread...
the US does need to get stronger & rippetoe is right, in the US the best athletes do not olympic weightlift.

There are very, very few good points made in that thread and a lot of douchebaggery.

The current crop of US lifters are not strong enough to win medals as they are. This is a fact. To say that they are not trying hard enough to get stronger or that they would be better off focusing more on squats and deadlifts not only dispepects the huge effort that these guys put into their training, but also goes against the last 40 years of coaching knowledge developed by the very countries who are beating the USA.

The best track and field athletes, basketball players and football players do not make the best olympic weightlifters. They're far too tall and often have the wrong proportions. Undersized college players would be good to go after but weightlifting cannot offer scholarships or even the popularity and prestige of being on the basketball or football team or running track...

To develop a good olympic weightlifter you need to:
Find a small, explosive and flexible athlete at a young age
Who enjoys an intense, repetitive and painful sport with little to no public interest
Pay them to do nothing but lift, sleep and eat

A number of tiny pacific islands including Nauru and Samoa have developed extremely good weightlifting teams by doing exactly this. This is how you produce guys doing 160/200 at 85kg from a population of under 10000 people (Yukio Peter of Nauru).
Title: Re: Internet douchebaggery by Mark Rippetoe and Jim Moser
Post by: LanceSTS on May 04, 2011, 11:56:14 pm
Other than disrespecting Pendlay, who I think is a great coach, there are many good points being made in that thread...
the US does need to get stronger & rippetoe is right, in the US the best athletes do not olympic weightlift.

There are very, very few good points made in that thread and a lot of douchebaggery.

The current crop of US lifters are not strong enough to win medals as they are. This is a fact. To say that they are not trying hard enough to get stronger or that they would be better off focusing more on squats and deadlifts not only dispepects the huge effort that these guys put into their training, but also goes against the last 40 years of coaching knowledge developed by the very countries who are beating the USA.

The best track and field athletes, basketball players and football players do not make the best olympic weightlifters. They're far too tall and often have the wrong proportions. Undersized college players would be good to go after but weightlifting cannot offer scholarships or even the popularity and prestige of being on the basketball or football team or running track...

To develop a good olympic weightlifter you need to:
Find a small, explosive and flexible athlete at a young age
Who enjoys an intense, repetitive and painful sport with little to no public interest
Pay them to do nothing but lift, sleep and eat

A number of tiny pacific islands including Nauru and Samoa have developed extremely good weightlifting teams by doing exactly this. This is how you produce guys doing 160/200 at 85kg from a population of under 10000 people (Yukio Peter of Nauru).

bam. x10000. the premise of that thread is funny, olympic WEIGHTLIFTERS need to get stronger (revolutionary idea) , and everybody that has little to nothing to do with olympic weightlifting, has advice for glenn, on how that should be done.  Since glenn doesnt know how to get them stronger......................................... RIGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHTTTTTTTTTTTTT.
Title: Re: Internet douchebaggery by Mark Rippetoe and Jim Moser
Post by: lamp on May 05, 2011, 12:40:55 am

Other than disrespecting Pendlay, who I think is a great coach, there are many good points being made in that thread...
the US does need to get stronger & rippetoe is right, in the US the best athletes do not olympic weightlift.


The best track and field athletes, basketball players and football players do not make the best olympic weightlifters. They're far too tall and often have the wrong proportions. Undersized college players would be good to go after but weightlifting cannot offer scholarships or even the popularity and prestige of being on the basketball or football team or running track...



no but what you would get are the incredibly athletic people who aren't the best in their sport (because of their proportions) and get them to weightlift...
Title: Re: Internet douchebaggery by Mark Rippetoe and Jim Moser
Post by: tychver on May 05, 2011, 02:14:35 am

Other than disrespecting Pendlay, who I think is a great coach, there are many good points being made in that thread...
the US does need to get stronger & rippetoe is right, in the US the best athletes do not olympic weightlift.


The best track and field athletes, basketball players and football players do not make the best olympic weightlifters. They're far too tall and often have the wrong proportions. Undersized college players would be good to go after but weightlifting cannot offer scholarships or even the popularity and prestige of being on the basketball or football team or running track...



no but what you would get are the incredibly athletic people who aren't the best in their sport (because of their proportions) and get them to weightlift...

That's exactly what everyone is saying they should do. How to convince that guy to do weightlifting rather than play football? How do you even introduce that guy to weightlifting?
Title: Re: Internet douchebaggery by Mark Rippetoe and Jim Moser
Post by: Raptor on May 05, 2011, 03:54:13 am

Other than disrespecting Pendlay, who I think is a great coach, there are many good points being made in that thread...
the US does need to get stronger & rippetoe is right, in the US the best athletes do not olympic weightlift.


The best track and field athletes, basketball players and football players do not make the best olympic weightlifters. They're far too tall and often have the wrong proportions. Undersized college players would be good to go after but weightlifting cannot offer scholarships or even the popularity and prestige of being on the basketball or football team or running track...



no but what you would get are the incredibly athletic people who aren't the best in their sport (because of their proportions) and get them to weightlift...

That's exactly what everyone is saying they should do. How to convince that guy to do weightlifting rather than play football? How do you even introduce that guy to weightlifting?

You don't.
Title: Re: Internet douchebaggery by Mark Rippetoe and Jim Moser
Post by: DamienZ on May 05, 2011, 08:12:30 am
best part is when Jon North starts raping Rippetoe and Moser!
Title: Re: Internet douchebaggery by Mark Rippetoe and Jim Moser
Post by: lamp on May 05, 2011, 10:19:11 am

Other than disrespecting Pendlay, who I think is a great coach, there are many good points being made in that thread...
the US does need to get stronger & rippetoe is right, in the US the best athletes do not olympic weightlift.


The best track and field athletes, basketball players and football players do not make the best olympic weightlifters. They're far too tall and often have the wrong proportions. Undersized college players would be good to go after but weightlifting cannot offer scholarships or even the popularity and prestige of being on the basketball or football team or running track...



no but what you would get are the incredibly athletic people who aren't the best in their sport (because of their proportions) and get them to weightlift...

That's exactly what everyone is saying they should do. How to convince that guy to do weightlifting rather than play football? How do you even introduce that guy to weightlifting?

You don't.


I agree

 there are many examples of people who are almost-elite in a certain sport and then are convinced to do another sport they're more "fit" for and end up actually being elite there. 

The problem in the US is it doesn't happen in weightlifting often...

the only example I can think of is Tara Cunningham who was a member of the U19 women's national soccer team before she was convinced to do weightlifting instead...she then went on to get a gold medal in Beijing

The US weightlifting will succeed when we a) get more of these Tara Cunninghams &
                                               
                                                                    b) dope

Unfortunately, sports that do not have a "ball" component are not very popular in the US.  Track & Field, Weightlifting, and even Gymnastics are less prestigious and often overlooked in favor of football, basketball, even soccer

Most would rather be a good football player, rather than a great gymnast/lifter/thrower etc...
Title: Re: Internet douchebaggery by Mark Rippetoe and Jim Moser
Post by: LBSS on May 05, 2011, 10:20:22 am


That's exactly what everyone is saying they should do. How to convince that guy to do weightlifting rather than play football? How do you even introduce that guy to weightlifting?

talking out my ass here, but this is what makes sense to me: in soccer countries, you've got no choice but to weight lift, do the throws or maybe play rugby if you're an enormous dude. in a country where the most popular sport involves a lot of enormous dudes, the other sports don't get the same kind of automatic attention from that group.

until then, you just have to wait for the random occasional kid who likes weightlifting more than anything else. for example, hickson. kid could probably play D1 football based on physical gifts and work ethic alone (unless i'm missing some fundamental reason he DOESN'T play football, like epilepsy). he's 6-3, 220 or 230 or whatever. if he's fast, he could play linebacker or TE. if he's not so fast, he could pack on 20 or 30 more pounds and play DE. but he likes to lift and has since he was little, so he's a stupefyingly good weightlifter instead.

pat mendes, same thing. physically gifted as hell, was NFL-OL-sized at AGE 18. but he decided to become a lifter instead of an offensive lineman.

maybe USAW should look at USA Fencing. the US was irrelevant in international fencing for decades, until less than 10 years ago, when suddenly mariel zagunis and sada jacobson started whupping on everyone and now there are a bunch of US fencers in the top 10 or 20 in the world in the various events. whatever they did is working.

</ramble>
Title: Re: Internet douchebaggery by Mark Rippetoe and Jim Moser
Post by: LBSS on May 05, 2011, 10:21:07 am
also, lamp, not sure T&F or gymnastics are the best example there. we're still elite on a world level in a bunch of T&F events and in gymnastics.
Title: Re: Internet douchebaggery by Mark Rippetoe and Jim Moser
Post by: tychver on May 06, 2011, 12:39:01 am
I agree

 there are many examples of people who are almost-elite in a certain sport and then are convinced to do another sport they're more "fit" for and end up actually being elite there. 

The problem in the US is it doesn't happen in weightlifting often...

the only example I can think of is Tara Cunningham who was a member of the U19 women's national soccer team before she was convinced to do weightlifting instead...she then went on to get a gold medal in Beijing

The US weightlifting will succeed when we a) get more of these Tara Cunninghams &
                                               
                                                                    b) dope

Unfortunately, sports that do not have a "ball" component are not very popular in the US.  Track & Field, Weightlifting, and even Gymnastics are less prestigious and often overlooked in favor of football, basketball, even soccer

Most would rather be a good football player, rather than a great gymnast/lifter/thrower etc...

Unfortunately they either don't know what weightlifting is, don't find it fun, or prefer to play a sport that increases their chances of getting laid.

Tara Nott Cunningham was lucky in 2000 and won a gold medal with 185 total. After 2000, other countries started developing their female weightlifters more seriously and the WR total for her weightclass is now 212kg. You need to be over 195kg just to get in the top 5 in the womens 48kg class today.

More important than being an U19 USA soccer player she trained at the OTC as a gymnast which is probably the ideal place to look for good female weightlifters.
Title: Re: Internet douchebaggery by Mark Rippetoe and Jim Moser
Post by: tychver on May 06, 2011, 12:57:36 am
talking out my ass here, but this is what makes sense to me: in soccer countries, you've got no choice but to weight lift, do the throws or maybe play rugby if you're an enormous dude. in a country where the most popular sport involves a lot of enormous dudes, the other sports don't get the same kind of automatic attention from that group.

until then, you just have to wait for the random occasional kid who likes weightlifting more than anything else. for example, hickson. kid could probably play D1 football based on physical gifts and work ethic alone (unless i'm missing some fundamental reason he DOESN'T play football, like epilepsy). he's 6-3, 220 or 230 or whatever. if he's fast, he could play linebacker or TE. if he's not so fast, he could pack on 20 or 30 more pounds and play DE. but he likes to lift and has since he was little, so he's a stupefyingly good weightlifter instead.

pat mendes, same thing. physically gifted as hell, was NFL-OL-sized at AGE 18. but he decided to become a lifter instead of an offensive lineman.

maybe USAW should look at USA Fencing. the US was irrelevant in international fencing for decades, until less than 10 years ago, when suddenly mariel zagunis and sada jacobson started whupping on everyone and now there are a bunch of US fencers in the top 10 or 20 in the world in the various events. whatever they did is working.

</ramble>

The thing is you need TINY people for weightlifting. 56kg lifters are 4'8-5'1. 62kg lifters are normally like 4'10-5'3. 69kg lifters 5'0 to 5'6. These classes are not having their athletes poached by football and basketball and yet the USA still sucks.
Title: Re: Internet douchebaggery by Mark Rippetoe and Jim Moser
Post by: LBSS on May 06, 2011, 10:44:41 am
^^^ That's an interesting point. I guess as an outsider most of what I focus on are the super-heavyweights. They're the strongest/most mind-blowing.

OTOH, you never know how big someone is gonna be when they're 9 or 10. Everyone is tiny at that age. Plenty of kids playing Pop Warner football or rec league soccer -- siphon off the athletic ones and as they grow up you'll end up with a range of sizes. Or find dudes that love/are good at gymnastics and get them to lift weights. The strongest PFP lifters in my gym are both former gymnasts. But one is 5-2, ~77 kg and the other is 5-5, ~84 kg. Thick, strong dudes.
Title: Re: Internet douchebaggery by Mark Rippetoe and Jim Moser
Post by: $ick3nin.v3nd3tta on May 06, 2011, 11:43:12 am
When you see the vast amounts of money that is involved in other sports such as soccer, basketball, baseball, football etc, it's easy to understand why weightlifting isn't very popular.

What do they have in Bulgaria, the Soviet's etc, not much really. They dedicate there lives to weight lifting, it's more of an option there & a way out.
Title: Re: Internet douchebaggery by Mark Rippetoe and Jim Moser
Post by: TheSituation on May 06, 2011, 02:26:13 pm
When you see the vast amounts of money that is involved in other sports such as soccer, basketball, baseball, football etc, it's easy to understand why weightlifting isn't very popular.

What do they have in Bulgaria, the Soviet's etc, not much really. They dedicate there lives to weight lifting, it's more of an option there & a way out.


A way out?

America is embarrassed for you
Title: Re: Internet douchebaggery by Mark Rippetoe and Jim Moser
Post by: LanceSTS on May 14, 2011, 05:57:16 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpwMI7EH8Cg
Title: Re: Internet douchebaggery by Mark Rippetoe and Jim Moser
Post by: adarqui on May 14, 2011, 06:09:18 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpwMI7EH8Cg

horrible form, i suggest he contact Jim Moser or Mark Rippetoe.
Title: Re: Internet douchebaggery by Mark Rippetoe and Jim Moser
Post by: $ick3nin.v3nd3tta on May 14, 2011, 07:54:13 pm
A way out?

America is embarrassed for you

You know what I mean.

Bernard Hopkins & many other boxers found a way out of the ghetto through boxing.

I know of many peasant farmers that found a way out through road cycling, particularly those on the European continent.



Perfect example...


0:00 - 0:30



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ih0yVvolkxg
Title: Re: Internet douchebaggery by Mark Rippetoe and Jim Moser
Post by: tychver on May 16, 2011, 04:13:12 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpwMI7EH8Cg

horrible form, i suggest he contact Jim Moser or Mark Rippetoe.

Trololololol.

A lot of people confuse prettiness with efficiency. John did an efficient but ugly looking 191 clean and jerk with a 227.5 front squat. Dimas did a pretty but rather inefficient 215 clean and jerk with a 280 front squat. Rybakou's snatch looks a bit funky but that doesn't stop him from being probably the best snatcher by sinclair for the last 10 years.
Title: Re: Internet douchebaggery by Mark Rippetoe and Jim Moser
Post by: LanceSTS on May 16, 2011, 04:14:39 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpwMI7EH8Cg

horrible form, i suggest he contact Jim Moser or Mark Rippetoe.

Trololololol.

A lot of people confuse prettiness with efficiency. John did an efficient but ugly looking 191 clean and jerk with a 227.5 front squat. Dimas did a pretty but rather inefficient 215 clean and jerk with a 280 front squat. Rybakou's snatch looks a bit funky but that doesn't stop him from being probably the best snatcher by sinclair for the last 10 years.

lol he was joking bro, i put that up there because it pretty much destroyed their argument against glenn.
Title: Re: Internet douchebaggery by Mark Rippetoe and Jim Moser
Post by: tychver on May 16, 2011, 04:30:29 am
When you see the vast amounts of money that is involved in other sports such as soccer, basketball, baseball, football etc, it's easy to understand why weightlifting isn't very popular.

What do they have in Bulgaria, the Soviet's etc, not much really. They dedicate there lives to weight lifting, it's more of an option there & a way out.

I think the biggest thing is the comparatively small number of weightlifters training professionally and solely as weightlifters in the USA compared to somewhere like China. There are about 12 pro weightlifters in the USA and in Russia they have more than that in each weightclass.

Talent matters less in weightlifting than being willing, and able, to train 20 hours a week with a ridiculous intensity and mutliple sessions per day while also being able to get 9-10 hours of sleep every night.

If anyone's interested here's a really good podcast fromthe 70s big guys and Glenn
http://www.70sbig.com/blog/2011/05/podcast-ep-3-glenn-pendlay/
Title: Re: Internet douchebaggery by Mark Rippetoe and Jim Moser
Post by: tychver on May 16, 2011, 05:13:37 am
lol he was joking bro, i put that up there because it pretty much destroyed their argument against glenn.

I know lol. I was trying to say the Rip/Moser argument is essentially a troll. Or at least a straw man argument. There are always gonna be lifters who aren't particularly good squatters but still do very well in the competition lifts. By singling out John they've found themselves the perfect scapegoat lifter (and, by proxy, coach) who has both rough appearing technique and who is a notoriously weak squatter for his strength level  :pissed: