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Members Area => CALL EM OUT => Topic started by: AlexV on March 10, 2010, 02:52:37 pm

Title: Jay Schroeder
Post by: AlexV on March 10, 2010, 02:52:37 pm
Jay Schroeder

First I paid $50 for his general fitness program, hoping to gain insight into how he programs LDISO in conjunction with other means and since we all know LDISOS are all anyone needs I figured they would be in a general fitness program. 

Were they?

Nope, no LDISOS.  Stupid me I thought they "were all you need".

What did I get for $50?

A two page document with 3 circuit training programs implemented into a weekly schedule and exercise descriptions.  More like 1 1/2 pages.

$25 a page.

 And I was worried my $60 ebook was priced high but at least we have pictures, weekly periodization, etc...

And then there is his forum (right adarq)

I posted this friendly question:

Greetings!

I am excited about the new website, forum, articles, etc...

I was wondering if it would be possible to discuss the integration of the various methodics into the EvoSport program. More specifically, the significance of extreme isometrics has become clear, but I was wondering about the organization of other methodics like rebounds, overspeed lifts, maximal effort lifting, etc... into the training program

Thank you for your time. I am excited to learn about your system and hope to ask more thoughtful questions as my understanding of the program grows

Alex


To which I get the excellent reply:

It takes an extensive period of time to master iso extremes. There is no need to think about anything that might follow as then one cannot focus everything completely on the the task at hand. The trouble with most coaches and training plans is they never stick with the basics long enough to actually build anything allowing for elite adaptations. ”The will to prepare for success, is more important than the will for success”.

Seriously!  This is a cut n paste from his old blog.  Bull Shit!

So Adarq hops in with:

Right, but I think you are underestimating the OriginalPoster's experience, aka AlexV. He has implemented & utilized LDISO's effectively for some time now. He was merely asking questions about other methodology, beyond iso's, in Schroeder's systems.

AlexV has an impressive background, and has done more than enough to help a ton of athletes. His question should be viewed from the perspective that he has spent time long enough to actually prepare athletes for elite adaptations.

adioz.


And I wait and wait for a reply and nothing so I post:

n the words of ESPN c'mon man!

Lets delve deeper into the system. Seriously. I have had many athletes do extreme isos for 5 min straight for 30 sessions and then do my own stuff cause no one knows what comes next. I begin to wonder why you don't share. May coaches see themselves on the same journey and like helping others (that is a coaches job after all). Many coaches are willing to share and many have elite athletes (Stanley Cup, NCAA Div 1 football champs, Superbowl). We hear all of the critiques but those of us who actually try your philosophies are never rewarded with any nugget beyond "Do extreme isos only"

Yet many of us have viewed programs written for your clients and every client has said the following:

1. Extreme isos do not make up the whole program (contradiction to your claims)
2. No one ever holds for 5 minutes (from numerous athletes of yours)

So lets get off the fence and start sharing and opening up so everyone can learn. Otherwise what is the point of this forum. Really what is the point of the forum if all we will ever hear is "Only do extreme isos". OK we get their importance. We get it and have done it. We also know they are no where near everything in your program. So please open up. The questions are legit.

In closing this is a journey and we do owe it to everyone to pay it forward.

So rip me a new one or whatever. Maybe there will be something beyond "Only do Extreme isos" that others will get from this and maybe, just maybe, someone will actually learn something.


I bet you a million dollars we never get anything beyond "Do extreme Isos they are all you need"  Yet they dont even make up any part of thier general fitness program....

Bull shit, and don't waste your time on his programs cause I have heard complaints from others about the $50 for a 3 page document

I need a scanner.  If I can get one Ill upload about 30 pages worth of jays stuff.  You will learn as much from that as you will from purchasing one of his programs.

Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on March 10, 2010, 04:43:58 pm
oh thank god. I'm going to the movies can't wait to read this & lay into Schroeder.

ILL BE BACK LATER!
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: Adam. on March 10, 2010, 04:47:23 pm
Please continue to update this!!
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: ARowe on March 10, 2010, 06:12:15 pm
Yeah I searched a lot on forums looking for more info on his training methods and listened to the interviews that are online. I sent Jay an email telling him that I wanted to learn more about his training methods and that I was really interested and liked his philosophies. I even said if he could just tell me some books to read or anything to point me in the right direction that would be great. I got a reply like two days later answering none of my questions, no hints, nothing. BUT, he did tell me he does long distance training ($300 for first month, $100 for each additional month!) and he gave me a number to call if I was interested.

I was sorta surprised he replied but I was like damn you can't even give me a hint or just tell me some books or articles to read. smh
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: AlexV on March 10, 2010, 06:42:11 pm
I personally think that we'll never get beyond the Extreme Isos because part of mastery is monitoring bowel movements and no way in hell I am monitoring anyone of my athletes bowel movements so they can always fall back on the old

"They have not attained mastery yet" line...
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: ARowe on March 10, 2010, 08:55:34 pm
AlexV, what kind of results did your athletes get who progressed to 3-5 min holds?
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on March 11, 2010, 12:57:41 am
ok first of all, these quotes were taken from a Schroeder/John Williams interview, transcribed from someone on db:

Quote
I just finished transcribing and interview with Jay Schroeder from
http://paradigmperformancelab.blogspot.com/2009/01/jay-schroeder-interview.html (http://paradigmperformancelab.blogspot.com/2009/01/jay-schroeder-interview.html)
I have the text file and the mp3 if you'd like to have as well.


Second of all, I think we as athletes and coaches can learn alot about what people say about themselves. When coaches claim to have some type of "elite performance history", yet have no record of it, it usually means they are full of shit, whether that is some kind of pathological disorder or just being a bullshit artist, who knows, but we see it all too often in s&c.

"OMG I WAS SO AWESOME AT ONE POINT IN MY LIFE!" <-- no, you weren't :/

For example, Schroeder claims, in his own biography, that he is a "drug free world champion powerlifter" and "elite sprinter". Ok, cool, stats? Records? Video? Meet results? This flaw exists in many coaches, who may at one point been driven to be great, but just never got there. I mean, seriously, look around, it exists in every performance gym on the planet. So many coaches BULLSHIT their own history to inflate their creds.

This is as if I were to go tell a bunch of military personal that I was once a decorated navy seal & won a medal of honor. Well, if I know my shit I can pull it off, as do many people who impersonate military personal to spew their own rhetoric, it gives them cred, cred they have not earned.

(http://i44.tinypic.com/ilb0gk.png)




just some quotes from Schroeder during an audio interview:

Quote
"When i ran, I ran a 4.3 forty at 246 pounds, ppl thought I was running about a 5.2, they'd look at their watch, and go 'Holy Smokes, what the heck, run that again, dammit you don't look like you're running that fast'. You know b/c the middle was ugly, b/c i have some pretty severe limitations from my accident. But ultimately, no one knows that if they look at only the end or if they look at the beginning. " -- JS

Well, let me explain what happened here. First of all, there is not one intelligent s&c coach OR athlete on this forum, or any other forum that would sit here and tell you a 4.3 looked like a 5.2. I've seen multiple 4.3's (& possibly 4.2x) in person, and it is about the most awesome fucking shit I've ever seen. You basically just go: "holy shit". you may even get butterflies or goosebumps.

I'm pretty sure Jay Schroeder, using the emotional experience & enginuity taught to him in the Eastern Bloc by KGB, had their stopwatches modified in order in such a way that, anything registering as a 5.8s 40 yard dash would register as a 4.31. This is how the KGB operate folks, they are good at what they do (or did, peep interpol).


Quote
"Umm, i mean most of thats unbelievable, we've taken ppl and improved vertical jumps 6 inches in a matter of 3-8 minutes, same thing with standing long jumps, same thing with bench rep max, umm, its a matter of understanding how the muscles are working together or how they're not working together, and how we can facilitate this to occur." -- JS

3-8 minutes? WTF? Ok well, let me give my input on this, considering I left about 20 comments on the EVO SPORT broad jump enhancement video, and all such comments were deleted, I have an opinion!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JR-FAi2TN6k

I overlayed the takeoff, peak flight, and landing of that person in the video. The trajectory angle AND landing are much different. Now, this could very well be attributed to the ARP, no doubt about it. The ARP + proper stimulation of certain muscle groups/firing patterns could have changed his motor programming rather quickly, causing him to changing trajectory and give him more confidence (strength) in landing much deeper.

Here's the problem I have with that... The trajectory angle/landing were so obviously different, most coaches wouldn't even brag about it. If evo had showed us a broad jump with similar trajectory/landing, yet 6 inch difference, then it would make alot more sense, considering more power was generated.

Even so, a 6" increase in broadjump is akin to a 1" increase in vertical jump, not 6.

It's alot easier to fool the eye on a broad jump than it is for a vert, you tricky devilz. :F

A 6 inch increase in VJ in 3-8 minutes is not possible, sorry. Verk got 6-8% increase in vert using legit, studied methods, such as STIM complexes. I've also seen the same, using stim complexes. You're telling me you have a way to increase vert by 20%?

y u aintz git bolt down 2 9.fo?




Quote
John, I have taken ppl, and improved their bench press 100 pounds in a matter of 6-8 hours, I took my bench from 400 to 551 in just under a day and a half, k took me 34 hours. -- JS

This makes absolutely no sense, I can't even make a joke about it.




Quote
Umm, We've had ppl put on 40 pounds of body weight, in a summer, from football, you know two, two and a half months, eight, ten weeks, and run a 4.4 forty as opposed to a 4.68 or a 4.72, without going out and running. Does that answer your question.

lol, 40 lb in 8 weeks. 5 lb a week.

Not even Rippetoe & GOMAD could achieve such a feat.


Quote
the basis of the system is this, the series of shock routines and ultra super shock routines in order to facilitate 2 main route things, and thats first high load, high volume, high velocity, every great system of the world always strove to get to that point, but at that point is where everybody experienced the downfall.

Iso extremes aren't high load right?



Quote
My wife, she was in a car accident, had shoulder surgery, knee surgery on the same side. And uh they wanted to do back surgery, but I didn't allow that to occur. I knew the surgeon so he took my input, didn't occur. Three months later she was powerlifting, winning on the national championships, and setting records, but we didn't bench, squat or deadlift John, we didn't do any of those things, yet she went out there displayed that.

Seriously, I'm about to become the biggest dickhead on the internet. I am glad your wife was able to recover, truly I am. Which national championship did she win though?

Am I crazy or something because I can't find meet results.

Also, going from car accident to iso extremes to winning national championships in powerlifting in a few months? WHAT? If this actually did happen I will apologize sincerely on video :)





Quote
An athlete is a person who utilizes everything that comprises a human being to the greatest level of achievement that they possibly can, i call it P.I.P.E.S.> Physiology, Intellect, Emotion, Psychology and Spirit. Without any of these things being 100% and tehre's no such thing as 110% in my book theres only 100%. Without all of those given the same attention one cannot truly achieve elite performance, so an athlete is somebody that Utilizes PIPES to the fullest, its not somebody who molests kids or parties when the games over, or parties after the championship or smokes dope or uses drugs of whatever sort, recreational or performance enhancing. Its someone who utilizes everything we have. I'm a believer in God, some ppl take offense to that, some don't but I believe God gave us all of the things we need, but in an interesting way God also made it so that all of these things were possible, but none of them were possible at the same time. Depending on what you chose to do with them, and my system of training is one that's in theory designed to utilize all of these and create elite performance. And elite perfomance to me is the best that, John, you can be, or the best that on eof your clients can be, or the best that I can be, or maybe we're not good enough to make it to the NFL or run 100m in the olympics or play on a Stanley Cup champion, but that doesn't mean we're not elite in our own right. Everything we do is human performance, getting in and out of a chair, picking up our glass to drink milk or OJ in the morning, raising our fork to our mouth to be able to renourish ourselves, everything is athletic, and I'm the kind of guy John, that well like the night we were in Birmingham and we went to dinner, I watched you and your cohort eat and how you raised your arm to get the food to your mouth, how you set it back down, the position it was in when we were talking casually, the position your body was in, your respirations when we were having a more serious part of the discussion, and I live this 24 hours a day, I expect if my client pays me and if its one dollar or thousands of dollars that they're taking it as serious as I am, b/c if one of these things aren't utilized completely to me, you accelerate the death process, b/c you're not living as elite as possible, and you're going to die sooner, I don't care if its one second sooner or a half a second sooner, or a day sooner, its sooner, I want to get the most out of life for myself and everyone that i come into contact with, so I hope that explains to you what i think and athlete is.

I had 140 heart beats, 50 inhiliations and 51 expirations while reading this. I scratched my face 3 times, farted once, and contemplated watching porno (25 times).





Quote
John I don't think its too bad. But the most powerfully thing we do as humans is have an orgasm. And this orgasm is a calculation of PIPES, I believe that we're sexual beings, we grow to a sexual peak and then we slowly die, well if orgasm is the most powerful thing we do, and I can't think of a time that i've ever had an orgasm, that i've been in a bad mood afterwards. I was revitalized, i was fresh, I was, I had no problems, no worries in the world, it didn't matter if i was broke, bankrupt, injured, whatever. If i had an orgasm, all of those things didn't matter, b/c it comprised PIPES, it comprised everything as a human being to this one end point. So my goal is to make training, a freakin' orgasm. And I'm not saying, okay well you should have an orgasm when you train. But you want to elicit all of the same things that you do when you have an orgasm. And let's think about this, if we want to delay the orgasm, John, do we think about having an orgasm?

Interesting..


Quote
If you lose the end picture, and the feelings that are associated with everything to get to that end picture, you're not going to achieve it. Same as you're not going to achieve an orgasm if your mind isn't on having an orgasm.

Touche, then how come when I'm with a girl, im thinking about "iso extremes", in order to not orgasm early, yet within 1 minute, there she blows?

MYTH BUSTED.





Quote
well first ppl don't like to have to incur the cost of emotional output, we avoid displaying emotion every opportunity we can, yet we talk about, talk about it in a manner as if we let it occur on a regular basis. Ppl don't cry when a family member dies b/c well they're not supposed to cry b/c they have to be tough, or its really the best thing, or you know any situation that arises with stress, 'well i've got to handle this in this way', 'i can't do this', 'i'll take a vacation', 'i'll go away from the problem and then the problem will go away'. Well you see training is really a problem, and its a series of problems, and if you don't participate emotionally, and you're heart doesn't get involved, b/c all emotion stems from the heart, and I believe the heart is the real brain, like most of the martial arts and they're derivatives believe, not that i was involved with the martials arts or anything, i came to that conclusion on my own, of course i read it like everyone else did, and said 'hmm, interesting' and then i came to my own conclusion, and i determined the same thing, i believe the heart is the real brain, if we think with our brain we have too many problems, we're always a step behind, we don't allow this emotion to let things occur. In order to move at high velocity, high load, and high volume, and to be able to do it over and over, you have to elicit very specific responses, well if i go to the gym one day John, and I'm umm, doing as we do, an iso extreme lunge, and my father was mad at me if i'm a high school kid or i got a bad grade in school, or the coach really ripped me today b/c i had a poor day, or on the other hand, my girlfriend said she'd marry me, or i got a scholarship to a university, something great, then it completely alters what we do in the gym, if i come in a bad mood, then thats the way i'm going to participate, i'm not going to ahve the right emotion or any emotion elicited in order to create these high speed, high load, high volume conctractions, b/c without the exact same stimulus, applied in the exact same manner, you can never duplicate the movement or the contraction or whatever you want to call it, over and over and over, and its the series of doing things over and over and over, that really solidifies this information and the way its transfered thru the nervous system to the brain, so that it can send information back based on what the response was of the muscles of the organs of what we were trying to stimulate. So our iso extreme, greatest joint angle, challenge one to participate emotionally. John i'm sure when you were doing it, you questioned what the heck am i doing here, and possibly when you questioned that, you took a break, you took a break how? well you took a break from changing the picture, changing the feeling of what the end is, and you were now focusing on this discomfort that you're feeling, but if we embrace this discomfort that you're feeling, and we use it to elicit more emotion, to elicit a more powerful, more high velocity contraction, we can take advantage of it and it tranfers to athletics,

We (AlexV especially) were willing to participate emotionally and intellectually on the EVO forum, why didn't you (or your fellow coaches)?

Zeet.





Quote
I've had ppl from 4 to 81 yrs old, ppl with ?beyond? gray, MS, stroke victims, and whatever else you can imagine in between, and every sport from archery to uh, I don't know one that begins with a Z John. But everything in between and they all experience the exact same results.

6 inch increases in vert in 6-8 minutes?





Quote
JS: Its the same thing, there's a huge cost on our part, and ppl don't understand that. If its what it takes for us to get it across to the client, then it must be good enough for the client. You and I, John, we're willing to expend that cost, we're willing to endure everything that comes from it. We need to get our clients, where they can endure that same aspect.

AlexV is technically a client, yet you ignored him for over 5 months?

Was this part of his training, you know, the Adam Archuletta breakin` em` in process?




Quote
JS: Oh, I think its really easy, they don't possess the ability to have this rapid turning on and turning off for enough time. They haven't spent enough time doing it. They spend all their time doing these submaximal effort A and B skits and all this other crap. Rather than getting out there and running the way they're supposed to, as long as they can, maybe its only 5 meters, and then they could build up to 10 and 12 and 40 and 60, and all these other things, but they don't prepare themselves to be able to do that, b/c they're satisfied with 9.79, 9.76, or whatever, I think its 9.76 now, but it doesn't matter, b/c you see, their vision doesn't exceed what their eyes can see. Where as my system of training, says, Hell when i was in Russia, i watched them run with this apparatus in 8 seconds or less. Using, propelling themselves only with the use of their limbs, there wasn't any artificial propulsion of any kind, but they did a piece of equipment that allowed them to uh, you know run at this higher velocity. Thats what needs to be done, they need to put in more work, quality work, rather than all the same work that they're doing, they all end up with the same injuries at the same time at the same velocities, thats crazy, humans we should improve more than that, with the technology of tracks, and shoes, and materials and things, we should be just going fricking crazy. But we're not. B/c we compromise what we ask ppl to do, we don't have them do things that will actually create a higher level of performance, again ppl's vision is only as far as their eyes can see. You and I John, i know we've talked many times, you and I we dream it, we see it, and we feel it at the end so we know it can happen, and that's why we train ppl the way we train them.

Surely if it were this easy you'd have Tyson Gay down to 9.4 right now :)










Ok well I'll try and find more funny ass schroeder quotes, there were a bunch in "the most shocking interview ever".

So, BBL, re-attaching my head (which was just severed by jihadi) with my ARP (thanx J), after that I'm going to do a few 5 minutes iso extremes and run a few 3.9 40 yard dashes.






Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on March 11, 2010, 01:12:09 am
Yeah I searched a lot on forums looking for more info on his training methods and listened to the interviews that are online. I sent Jay an email telling him that I wanted to learn more about his training methods and that I was really interested and liked his philosophies. I even said if he could just tell me some books to read or anything to point me in the right direction that would be great. I got a reply like two days later answering none of my questions, no hints, nothing. BUT, he did tell me he does long distance training ($300 for first month, $100 for each additional month!) and he gave me a number to call if I was interested.

I was sorta surprised he replied but I was like damn you can't even give me a hint or just tell me some books or articles to read. smh


that's foul...

you should go for it though, pay 300 the first month then see if he recommends any books or gives you any good tidbits of training advice.

lulzjk
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: Adam. on March 11, 2010, 09:32:14 am

that's foul...

you should go for it though, pay 300 the first month then see if he recommends any books or gives you any good tidbits of training advice.

lulzjk


We should get an investigative reporter to go under his methods.
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: AlexV on March 11, 2010, 01:31:09 pm
AlexV, what kind of results did your athletes get who progressed to 3-5 min holds?

My golf team won the conference championship AND finished in the top 20 (out of over 200 schools in div 1, FWIW football only has like 114 schools)

The most noticeable are the following:
They move better
They are more reactive
They report more dreams and deeper sleep
They also report calmness and focus
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: Kellyb on March 11, 2010, 02:58:21 pm
LOL. Don't forget the whole therastim/ARP deal between Jay and Dennis Thompson. They are the same unit, and IIRC it used to be you could buy a therastim unit for $2500. Fichter has one I believe, and so do a couple of other people I know. I believe Therastim/Arp was a 3 way partnership between Jay, Dennis Thompson, and the owner of therastim, whose name I don't recall. Anyway, Jay and Dennis basically made it to where the therastim is no longer for sale and the only way to get the machine is thru the Arp, which isn't sold. In order to use it you have to "lease" it for something like $15000 a year, which gives you access to the machine along with the supersecret Arp protocols. 
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: AlexV on March 11, 2010, 03:41:01 pm
Super secret is another code word for scammer
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on March 12, 2010, 06:59:28 am
"I started off my career with grossly obese women, you had to be 365 lb plus to enter the program. I trained them exactly the same way as my system exists today. And within 6.5-9.5 months, these were 160 lb women. No special diet, obviously eating well, whatever well means to people, to me it means eating a little bit of everything. Uhm, with enough time in between, and training hard enough to stimulate your physiology enough to use it." -- JS

Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: AlexV on March 12, 2010, 12:10:57 pm
"I started off my career with grossly obese women, you had to be 365 lb plus to enter the program. I trained them exactly the same way as my system exists today. And within 6.5-9.5 months, these were 160 lb women. No special diet, obviously eating well, whatever well means to people, to me it means eating a little bit of everything. Uhm, with enough time in between, and training hard enough to stimulate your physiology enough to use it." -- JS



He claimed top only use extreme isos with them...

How come no extreme isos in the general fitness program.  If anyone could benefit from general fitness it would be the grossly obese...
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: Adam. on March 12, 2010, 02:07:38 pm
So are there any scientifically proven adaptations from these god-like extreme-isos?
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on March 12, 2010, 05:13:25 pm
So are there any scientifically proven adaptations from these god-like extreme-isos?

I've looked but havn't found any.. the closest thing you'll get to iso extreme studies are the kaatsu training studies that RJ talked about on db.

they showed an increase in IGF-1/anaerobic enzymes/mitochondria after 3 minutes, if I'm not mistaken.

We should have a kaatsu/LDISO peer review thread :F
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on March 12, 2010, 05:14:56 pm
"I started off my career with grossly obese women, you had to be 365 lb plus to enter the program. I trained them exactly the same way as my system exists today. And within 6.5-9.5 months, these were 160 lb women. No special diet, obviously eating well, whatever well means to people, to me it means eating a little bit of everything. Uhm, with enough time in between, and training hard enough to stimulate your physiology enough to use it." -- JS



He claimed top only use extreme isos with them...

How come no extreme isos in the general fitness program.  If anyone could benefit from general fitness it would be the grossly obese...

Also, can you picture 365 lb obese women doing iso extremes?

I'm picturing it, and my brain is roflcoptering.

(http://ui29.gamespot.com/1020/roflcopter_2.jpg)







365 lb obese woman performing iso extreme squat:

(http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u139/billie_formalejo/obese-woman.jpg)
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: mattyg35 on March 12, 2010, 07:49:28 pm
So are there any scientifically proven adaptations from these god-like extreme-isos?

I've looked but havn't found any.. the closest thing you'll get to iso extreme studies are the kaatsu training studies that RJ talked about on db.

they showed an increase in IGF-1/anaerobic enzymes/mitochondria after 3 minutes, if I'm not mistaken.

We should have a kaatsu/LDISO peer review thread :F


IMO the purpose of Iso extremes was to optimize length-tension relationships of the body. Thats why they had to be held for time. Most ppl just sit and sit some more, Iso extremes simply put people in optimal/proper position for moving.

Edit: I added the quote.
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on March 12, 2010, 08:06:27 pm
IMO the purpose of Iso extremes was to optimize length-tension relationships of the body. Thats why they had to be held for time. Most ppl just sit and sit some more, Iso extremes simply put people in optimal/proper position for moving.

right, but that's not what's in question here.. what's in question is Schroeder's tactics & bullsh*t.
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on March 13, 2010, 04:12:04 am
"What they learned, after they were very young, takes on a whole new meaning because they watched their fathers mothers brothers sisters friends and they do something because it becomes more comfortable to do it this way. They no longer move like they are supposed too. As an example, if anyone has any very young children, just watch them jump off a swing, they never land with their knees forward, they never land bent forward, they land with their upper torso erect, lower legs perpendicular to the ground, on the balls of their feet, see because that's the natural way that we do it. "

ya?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMgqr-JcXSU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SC9Ba9cxXo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6tDyNcHyik

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5m9rx5B3FI

idno.
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on March 13, 2010, 04:27:34 am
"Coach I have an 81 year old gentleman, weighs 172 lb, he'll walk in, no warmup nothing, and lift 660-675, no problems. He works out 3 days a week, he owns 17 companies, he t akes an active roll in all of them. Now, people will say, especially on a deadlifts, or cleans maybe, that you can only do them heavy every 3-10 days, depending on what part of the country you're in. Let me tell you, he'll deadlift 15-20 maximal reps each of these 3 days during the week. If he happens to come in on a 4th day because he doesn't have to go out of town for business, he'll do exactly the same thing. There are no easy days, there are no light days, there are no easy days, it's always maximal effort." -- JS


CREDIBILITY -> DESTROYED


450 @ age 71, PL record:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSvUMkQTrPo




http://www.ipapower.com/WR/M220.htm

Well, one guy at age 80 pulled 195. SO IT *IS* POSSIBLE that darn 650.
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on March 13, 2010, 04:35:51 am
"Myself personally, I'll overtrain by 10% on a regular basis, every single day, multiple sessions, whatever it is that I do." -- JS

Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: vag on March 13, 2010, 05:03:50 am
Damn , why wasnt this topic opened as a poll?
Im sure we would have an amazing number of "Yes" in the scammer question!!!
I would do an extreme 5' iso hold on the mouse button clicking yes , hahahaha :D
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on March 13, 2010, 05:12:19 am
Damn , why wasnt this topic opened as a poll?
Im sure we would have an amazing number of "Yes" in the scammer question!!!
I would do an extreme 5' iso hold on the mouse button clicking yes , hahahaha :D

ya AlexV didn't follow directions!

forfuxsake.
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on March 13, 2010, 05:13:07 am
"It was 43 attempts on a max bench in one hour. The individual completed 37 of them, uhhh correctly, so mixed 6 reps. That was done, uhm, 3 days in a row. [...] The control for when the next rep was performed, was when heart rate was 102.  [...] At the same time he was doing it, I was doing it, and we all had the same results. Til this day right now, I can go in and do a max bench press, my heart rate will go up, i'm 52 years old, my heart rate will go up to 202 to 205, and within 15 seconds, i'm 120. " -- JS


his HR goes up to 205 at 52 years old, then back down to 120 within 15 seconds.

that

is

hilarious

beyond

all

belief.
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on March 13, 2010, 05:31:11 am
"I took my wife, and made her a world champion powerlifter in 6 months. Within this 6 months, she was in a car accident, [...] She had shoulder surgery and knee surgery, they wanted to do back surgery, she wasn't my wife at the time but she didn't know who else to call. So I didn't let them do the back surgery, but they did the shoulder & the knee. So this is all within this 6 months and she became a world champion. Not once did we bench press, did we squat, or did we deadlift. NOT ONCE!" -- JS






"Do we have a martial arts person. Well just the basic horse stance in martial arts, I mean I've had some martial art's people who will stand there for 2-3 hours at a time." -- JS
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on March 13, 2010, 05:48:47 am
talking about this kid kyle, who is 5'7.5":

"He can stand next to a 6 foot block wall, and, dipping his legs 3% of his total height, get high enough to jump over that wall. " -- JS



"When I was in the eastern block, I watched people step off of heights 15-23 feet high and land in a squat position, lower legs perpendicular, upper torso erect, head in line with the body, arms either crossed in front or at the side. " -- JS



talking about some kid who was afraid to squat, ready to get in to the nfl, from UPENN, who had horrible speed:

"We had 3 weeks, here's all we did for his legs: At the time, I had a 1986 Dodge Ram Charger [...] We would climb onto the top of it [...] and we would do one, as I call it, altitude drop, per day. Now, not only did he run faster, he went from a 4.74 to a 4.59, but he was able to squat over 500 lb without having squat in, I don't know, 5 or 6 years, all through college at least. All we did was one of those per day." -- JS

^ ahahah, after that, referring to that system: "High velocity, High Load, and it's high volume just because the load is so high, the amount of work was huge."

then some fucking d-bag goes:

"Right."

still going on about that:

"I trained dogs for sled pulling. I trained them in exactly the same way. We had a dog, an Alaskan Malamute, and the dogs were from canada, because real Malamute's are very large. They'll weight 190 to 240 lb. And uh, mine was 194 lb. female." -- JS


MALAMUTES DONT WEIGHT 190-240 LB... WTF. NOT EVEN CLOSE.

This is a perfect example of how bad this guy exaggerates. He takes every number and just mangles the living fuck out of it.


(http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/images14/AlaskanMalemuteKianaDSC_0033.JPG)


ridiculous.
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on March 13, 2010, 06:07:37 am
"I mean Chris, you've seen me, from my motorcycle accident, I can only lift my left arm to parallel, yet on a bench press you'd never know it. You would never understand. I have no connective tissue in my right knee, yet I'll walk out there and run with my guys, at 252 lb, 49 years old, I ran a 4.42 40. I can pedal a bicycle from 0 to 42 mph in a velodrome. " -- JS



"My best standing long jump, and this is all after my motorcycle accident, was 11'4". I could jump all the way across a driveway, without touching either end. " -- JS



"I could stuff a basketball behind my head, and I'm your basic 5'10 white guy you know? HEH. " -- JS



Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on March 13, 2010, 06:18:31 am
"I'll give you some examples, uhh, high school football players, in 3 months of doing nothing but iso extremes at the greatest joint angle, improving 40 times from the 4.7 to 5.0 range uhh when they started, to the 4.4-4.6 range, AT THE SAME TIME, putting on 26-42 lb bodyweight." -- JS
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: piR on March 13, 2010, 10:16:39 am
Reading this is just hilarious, I mean besides the obvious fact that it is impossible to do what this guy is doing, he actually believes he's really doing it and people actually buy into him.
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on March 13, 2010, 03:31:11 pm
Reading this is just hilarious, I mean besides the obvious fact that it is impossible to do what this guy is doing, he actually believes he's really doing it and people actually buy into him.

ya.

he says some great things on these audio interviews, but to me, it's completely nullified in the face of such bullshit claims.

Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: Kellyb on March 13, 2010, 04:01:34 pm
Does he now have a forum somewhere? 

I've often wondered if Schroeder doesn't cross over that insane line from time to time.  He's obviously smart and he does have some good things to say, but seems like he's carried it a bit too EXTREMEE and really buys into some of that obviously exaggerated stuff he says.

Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on March 13, 2010, 04:14:56 pm
Does he now have a forum somewhere? 

ya, I think you have to sign up to post/view it:

http://www.ultrafitevosport.com/index.php?option=com_kunena&Itemid=107&func=listcat&catid=1

Quote
I've often wondered if Schroeder doesn't cross over that insane line from time to time.  He's obviously smart and he does have some good things to say, but seems like he's carried it a bit too EXTREMEE and really buys into some of that obviously exaggerated stuff he says.



ya I remember this JackM dude once said "Schroeder is borderline schizo". If he believes many of these quotes he's said with his own mouth, then ya, he definitely is schizo.

To me, he's one of those guys that fabricates a number every ~5 years, so a 5.5 40 becomes a 4.9 40, then a 4.6 40, then a 4.3 40. I think his gross overestimation of Malamute's avg bodyweight represents this.




more quotes coming, I'd imagine, since thats only through part III of most shocking interview, and there's 2 more parts.

pC
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on March 14, 2010, 06:10:24 am
ok this one takes the cake, eats it, then craps it out all over the s&c industry:

"As an example of what you can get to, Adam would load the bar up to 150 kilos (331 lb), lowered himself down, he would be standing on benches. He would lower himself down until there was a great angle between his knee and his hip, there was a huge downward angle. He would hold that position with 330 pounds for 5 minutes. Then he'd have to come back up. He also would hold 350-400 pounds on his chest for 30 minutes in a bench press position with a cambered bar. It only counted if he completed the rep at the end of the 30 minutes." -- JS


"I have people that stand in the beginning of a squat position, with 1100 or 1200 pounds for 8 or 10 minutes. Now, if that person was to wobble, pelvis move forward or backward, or side to side, or roll their foot to the outside, or uhg sigh or take a deep breathe, heh, then they're done, that time does not count. They have to start all over again. [...] Now, we would do 30,40,50,60 of these per day." -- JS


"When adam used to be able to do rebound bench press, with 315 pounds, he would hold it at the top, release it, mimic a bench press by pulling his arms down, and then accelerate back up through the bar and complete the lift. Measuring with the vscope, he was creating almost 12,000 pounds of force." -- JS


"Iso extreme pushup, You put 200-250 pounds on my back, and hold there for up to 5 minutes in correct position, then go right over to a bench press and execute a max lift." -- Js


"A 21 inch waist is rather small on a 120 pound woman, training like this, these 126 pound women can squat 350-400 pounds." -- JS



(http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk122/good_mate_jones/fffuuuu.jpg)
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: zgin on March 14, 2010, 08:52:12 pm
jay schroeder= herb
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: TheSituation on March 14, 2010, 10:49:58 pm
"I have people that stand in the beginning of a squat position, with 1100 or 1200 pounds for 8 or 10 minutes. Now, if that person was to wobble, pelvis move forward or backward, or side to side, or roll their foot to the outside, or uhg sigh or take a deep breathe, heh, then they're done, that time does not count. They have to start all over again. [...] Now, we would do 30,40,50,60 of these per day." -- JS


Wait, what?
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on March 14, 2010, 10:52:09 pm
"I have people that stand in the beginning of a squat position, with 1100 or 1200 pounds for 8 or 10 minutes. Now, if that person was to wobble, pelvis move forward or backward, or side to side, or roll their foot to the outside, or uhg sigh or take a deep breathe, heh, then they're done, that time does not count. They have to start all over again. [...] Now, we would do 30,40,50,60 of these per day." -- JS


Wait, what?

Not considering the weight of the lift, let's consider 60 times per day, at 8-10 minutes each.

makes sense don't it?

In a few weeks i'll strip these quotes out of the audio and put them into little mp3's, so we can lol non stop for months.
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: TheSituation on March 14, 2010, 10:54:52 pm
"I have people that stand in the beginning of a squat position, with 1100 or 1200 pounds for 8 or 10 minutes. Now, if that person was to wobble, pelvis move forward or backward, or side to side, or roll their foot to the outside, or uhg sigh or take a deep breathe, heh, then they're done, that time does not count. They have to start all over again. [...] Now, we would do 30,40,50,60 of these per day." -- JS


Wait, what?

Not considering the weight of the lift, let's consider 60 times per day, at 8-10 minutes each.

makes sense don't it?

In a few weeks i'll strip these quotes out of the audio and put them into little mp3's, so we can lol non stop for months.

I like training for 10 hours a day
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on March 14, 2010, 10:58:51 pm
"I have people that stand in the beginning of a squat position, with 1100 or 1200 pounds for 8 or 10 minutes. Now, if that person was to wobble, pelvis move forward or backward, or side to side, or roll their foot to the outside, or uhg sigh or take a deep breathe, heh, then they're done, that time does not count. They have to start all over again. [...] Now, we would do 30,40,50,60 of these per day." -- JS


Wait, what?

Not considering the weight of the lift, let's consider 60 times per day, at 8-10 minutes each.

makes sense don't it?

In a few weeks i'll strip these quotes out of the audio and put them into little mp3's, so we can lol non stop for months.

I like training for 10 hours a day

Me too, especially when there's 1200 pounds on my back, while im in the adaptive state, dreaming 4-5 times a night, with quality textured fecal matter.

I fidgeted once at the 9 minute 50 second mark, while holding 2000 lb in lockout. Schroeder made me start all over.
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: bbrewster on March 14, 2010, 11:49:31 pm
this thread is such an epic win. Adarqui you are the man.
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on March 14, 2010, 11:51:29 pm
this thread is such an epic win. Adarqui you are the man.

lol

i'll drop the audio "blurbs" in a few weeks, got to let the "text quotes" marinate.. then we get the audio and just roll around lol'n our brains out.

AND TO THINK PEOPLE IDOLIZE THIS LOON?

insanity :)

peace
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: vag on March 15, 2010, 04:36:56 am
"I once had a trainee called Clark Kent.
He came to me as a scared guy working at the local newspaper.
After a few session of ISOs he would....."
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on March 15, 2010, 05:14:01 am
"I once had a trainee called Clark Kent.
He came to me as a scared guy working at the local newspaper.
After a few session of ISOs he would....."


hahahahahaah
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on March 15, 2010, 07:49:20 am
I put a 4.33 40 yard dash in the 40-yard-dash crazy analysis thread:

http://www.adarq.org/forum/index.php?topic=536#40yddash1vid1

I thought it was relevant to post it here, considering Schroeder claims he ran a "4.3" and it "looked like a 5.2".

Just watch that, and the thought that goes through your head is either:

"Holy shit"

or

"Is that sped up?"

If "wow that looks slow" or "ya I believe a 4.3 could look like a 5.2" entered your head, please hang from your neck, using the kaatsu iso extreme method. Hold that until necrosis sets in.

ps: If you figit or sigh, you have to start all over again.



pC
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: brucelee on March 15, 2010, 09:43:13 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3X9h1WlQpA

schroeders mental extreme isos at work
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: AlexV on March 15, 2010, 02:17:49 pm
Damn , why wasnt this topic opened as a poll?
Im sure we would have an amazing number of "Yes" in the scammer question!!!
I would do an extreme 5' iso hold on the mouse button clicking yes , hahahaha :D

ya AlexV didn't follow directions!

forfuxsake.

I am a lone wolf
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: Kellyb on March 15, 2010, 02:22:25 pm
You know whats even funnier is watching some of the Schroeder nuthuggers talk theory and application of Iso EXTREMEZZ and other Schroeder methods.  Every so often I log on to the WGF forum and read thru the recent posts just for some entertainment.  Every other bro over there is utterly convinced Schroeder is some type of high tech sports scientist implanted from an advanced civilization 40 million years ahead of ours. For over 2 years now they've been going back and forth over schroeder.  Not a single person from the forum has had anything in the way of tangible results yet, not a single one of them has had any sorta positive or informative dialogue with Schroeder, but they keep making excuses.  At first it was, "you gotta get to 5 minutes bro."  After multiple people got to 5 minutes without anythign cutting edgehappening they started making up new excuses.  Last I checked the new advice was,  "Don't worry about time just pull down maximally."   They actually believe iso extremez are maximal, high velocity training methods.   
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: AlexV on March 15, 2010, 02:27:43 pm
this thread is such an epic win. Adarqui you are the man.

No credit to the man who set the table for him.  I knew If i put JS out here Adarqui would take it to the ultimate level.  It was like throwing Barry Bonds an 85mph fastball right down the middle
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: Adam. on March 15, 2010, 02:45:24 pm
Please post this thread on wgf and then link us the results.
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on March 15, 2010, 06:22:24 pm
this thread is such an epic win. Adarqui you are the man.

No credit to the man who set the table for him.  

Nonono. I thank you very much for starting this thread. I was salivating like a pitbull at the thought of ripping into the Schroeder b.s. But I didn't want to start it :)

(http://cdn-write.demandstudios.com/upload//3000/200/70/0/63270.jpg)

Quote
I knew If i put JS out here Adarqui would take it to the ultimate level.  It was like throwing Barry Bonds an 85mph fastball right down the middle

haha

It will get taken to the next level when disgruntled former iso extreme cult members post their results.
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on March 15, 2010, 06:29:16 pm
You know whats even funnier is watching some of the Schroeder nuthuggers talk theory and application of Iso EXTREMEZZ and other Schroeder methods.  Every so often I log on to the WGF forum and read thru the recent posts just for some entertainment.  Every other bro over there is utterly convinced Schroeder is some type of high tech sports scientist implanted from an advanced civilization 40 million years ahead of ours. For over 2 years now they've been going back and forth over schroeder.  Not a single person from the forum has had anything in the way of tangible results yet, not a single one of them has had any sorta positive or informative dialogue with Schroeder, but they keep making excuses.  At first it was, "you gotta get to 5 minutes bro."  After multiple people got to 5 minutes without anythign cutting edgehappening they started making up new excuses.  Last I checked the new advice was,  "Don't worry about time just pull down maximally."   They actually believe iso extremez are maximal, high velocity training methods.  

"Every other bro over there is utterly convinced Schroeder is some type of high tech sports scientist implanted from an advanced civilization 40 million years ahead of ours."

hahah^^^^

People get sucked into the trap. Hearing the interviews, learning about schroeder, learning about Archuletta, somehow not disassociating fact from fiction, it all leads to this cult-like spoonbending mentality as brucelee pointed out.

iso extremes = spoon bending.
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on March 15, 2010, 06:34:26 pm
Please post this thread on wgf and then link us the results.

the 70+ page thread everyone talks about:

http://wgfforum.llsint.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=62

there are tons more threads on the subject.




In all fairness, here's someone who seems to have gotten results from iso ExtREMEMSZMZ:

http://wgfforum.llsint.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=632
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: bbrewster on March 16, 2010, 07:14:19 pm
So I got this response from Robert Stock, former catcher from USC who was drafted last year and is now playing minor league ball. I have tremendous respect for him and his father (both the guy's sons threw mid 90s in high school and in Rob's case by the time he was 14 without being physical specimens)

His father claimed the extreme iso pushup to be very helpful for Rob's throwing. Still trying to get in contact with him. But here's what Rob had to say to me

"Hey Ben, the reason that someone wouldn't be given the ISO program is because Jay or Charles didn't believe they would follow it properly. There's a difference between holding yourself there for 5 minutes and actually doing the exercise for 5 minutes. The ISO's are poorly named because they're really not isometric. The whole time you are doing them you are trying to work in the same direction as gravity to pull/push yourself lower. Also, you must maintain proper position. Without personal instruction and observation, I can be almost certain that the person would not be doing it correctly. And if you can't do it for 5 minutes straight? No problem, but if you fail at 2 minutes then you'd better go IMMEDIATELY back into position. No time to wipe sweat from your brow, take a breath, or anything. You keep on going at 100% until you've gone for 5 minutes time. The reason, as it was put to me, was that giving yourself even 3 seconds rest will alter the energy system you are using, and that is counter-productive to the results that Jay is trying to elicit. If you can truly work at 100% for 5 minutes, then the results are unbelievable. But if you do the work sub-maximally then the results will not be as prescribed. This was explained to me as follows: The body always wants to preserve itself and maintain homeostasis. Unless you truly give 100% your body wants to save all its recovery mechanisms (hormones, nutrients, etc..) for when they are actually needed.

I had been doing the same workout every day for 2 weeks, which included all the ISO's. Every day I woke up very stiff and sore, but was able to work hard. However, one day when Charles Maka (he runs the program in AZ) lined me and 2 other players up for a wall squat and had us do it truly correct. When we finished we were gasping for air, trembling, feeling like puking, and on the verge of passing out. The next day when I woke up, I had literally NO SORENESS.

So the reasons why Jay would not prescribe the ISO's to someone is because he can be confident that they won't do them correctly. And when they don't achieve any results they will complain about the workout and the system. Therefore, Jay gives them a workout he believes they will be able to execute and achieve results...just not the best results they could be getting."



Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on March 16, 2010, 07:29:30 pm
So I got this response from Robert Stock, former catcher from USC who was drafted last year and is now playing minor league ball. I have tremendous respect for him and his father (both the guy's sons threw mid 90s in high school and in Rob's case by the time he was 14 without being physical specimens)

His father claimed the extreme iso pushup to be very helpful for Rob's throwing. Still trying to get in contact with him. But here's what Rob had to say to me

"Hey Ben, the reason that someone wouldn't be given the ISO program is because Jay or Charles didn't believe they would follow it properly. There's a difference between holding yourself there for 5 minutes and actually doing the exercise for 5 minutes. The ISO's are poorly named because they're really not isometric. The whole time you are doing them you are trying to work in the same direction as gravity to pull/push yourself lower. Also, you must maintain proper position. Without personal instruction and observation, I can be almost certain that the person would not be doing it correctly. And if you can't do it for 5 minutes straight? No problem, but if you fail at 2 minutes then you'd better go IMMEDIATELY back into position. No time to wipe sweat from your brow, take a breath, or anything. You keep on going at 100% until you've gone for 5 minutes time. The reason, as it was put to me, was that giving yourself even 3 seconds rest will alter the energy system you are using, and that is counter-productive to the results that Jay is trying to elicit. If you can truly work at 100% for 5 minutes, then the results are unbelievable. But if you do the work sub-maximally then the results will not be as prescribed. This was explained to me as follows: The body always wants to preserve itself and maintain homeostasis. Unless you truly give 100% your body wants to save all its recovery mechanisms (hormones, nutrients, etc..) for when they are actually needed.

I had been doing the same workout every day for 2 weeks, which included all the ISO's. Every day I woke up very stiff and sore, but was able to work hard. However, one day when Charles Maka (he runs the program in AZ) lined me and 2 other players up for a wall squat and had us do it truly correct. When we finished we were gasping for air, trembling, feeling like puking, and on the verge of passing out. The next day when I woke up, I had literally NO SORENESS.

So the reasons why Jay would not prescribe the ISO's to someone is because he can be confident that they won't do them correctly. And when they don't achieve any results they will complain about the workout and the system. Therefore, Jay gives them a workout he believes they will be able to execute and achieve results...just not the best results they could be getting."





cool, thanks for that post.

Any idea if he performed iso extreme dip, pullup also? Any idea on how the program affected him? I mean, did he throw harder (into the 100's)? Or did he recover alot faster after games? Basically, any idea of how he felt that program positively affected his game?

The best example of iso extremes, in my opinion, has got to be the chezkenny post. He's badass enough to do them all out, and smart enough to do them right, so i'm very interested in his training. I'm eagerly awaiting his lower body post-testing, now that he's "performing the lunge properly".

peace man
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: AlexV on March 16, 2010, 07:52:05 pm
Great insight ben!

We have seen great results from 5 min isos and have 2 whole teams who reached that level.  So the question of "What is next?" is LEGIT.  In fact I believe our 2 teams are the only 2 whole, entire, documented teams to reach that level.  So we have more WHOLE teams that have done them than maybe even JAY!!!  For them (Jay and co) to dismiss us is bullshit.  You know first hand that I am an advocate!!  

FWIW I was the OP and the guy who got pissed when the typical "just do them" bull shit got posted.  

Seriously.  Ben you know I am a fan of LDISO yet they (ultrafitevo) continue to push this shroud of secrecy.  I need more than Andrew to poke and prod them to get the next level out of them.  You need to hit jay too.  We all need to if we want to learn from him.  If they don't share then, in the words of the immortal George Lopez, "fuck that puto!"

You wanna know why I say FTP (fuck that puto)?

Mike Boyle has trained FFFFFAAAAARRRR (FAR) more superbowl champs, stanley cup champs, MLB champs, NBA champs, NCAA champs, little league champs, pop warner champs, HS champs, and champs at all levels than jay can EVER, "for evuh evuh?, for evuh!" hope to train.  EVER!!!

Boyles resume is far greater and HE IS WILLING TO PAY IT FORWARD

So jay quit being a "P" and freakin share!!!

For those who like his pushing the boundaries (I am one, ben, etc...) we need to poke and prod this guy until he is willing to open up!!!!!!

Now you may ask"Alex but why are you annoyed?"  I like being challenged in my beliefs.  That is how I, and we all, learn.  So he serves a purpose but "C'mon man!"
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: AlexV on March 16, 2010, 07:55:40 pm
FTP = Fuck that puto

it needs to be the new messaging slang
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: bbrewster on March 16, 2010, 08:33:28 pm
totally agree, Alex

I've asked some follow up questions to Robert, and I friended Charles Maka on facebook so I'm going to link him this thread and see what he has to say.


maybe we'll get the insight we've all been looking for


Ben
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: AlexV on March 16, 2010, 09:01:30 pm
totally agree, Alex

I've asked some follow up questions to Robert, and I friended Charles Maka on facebook so I'm going to link him this thread and see what he has to say.


maybe we'll get the insight we've all been looking for


Ben

Awesome, 

Looking forward to it.
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on March 16, 2010, 09:45:27 pm
totally agree, Alex

I've asked some follow up questions to Robert,

nice.

Quote
and I friended Charles Maka on facebook so I'm going to link him this thread and see what he has to say.


maybe we'll get the insight we've all been looking for


Ben

Maka is going to hate my vibe :)

Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on March 16, 2010, 10:24:45 pm
Will AlexV get the feedback he deserves?

STAY TUNED: http://www.ultrafitevosport.com/index.php?option=com_kunena&Itemid=107&func=view&catid=3&id=2&limit=6
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: AlexV on March 16, 2010, 10:25:54 pm
Will AlexV get the feedback he deserves?


No
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on March 16, 2010, 10:27:35 pm
Will AlexV get the feedback he deserves?


No

You are not participating emotionally & intellectually. There is no "no voice". There is only "go voice". Schroeder is testing you like he tested Archuletta prior to letting him train with him.

Life is a test.
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: AlexV on March 16, 2010, 10:49:10 pm
Will AlexV get the feedback he deserves?


No

You are not participating emotionally & intellectually. There is no "no voice". There is only "go voice". Schroeder is testing you like he tested Archuletta prior to letting him train with him.

Life is a test.

With that in mind I have been much more regular lately.  Nice and firm but soft always within 20 min of eating. 

Does this mean I am full of shit?
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on March 21, 2010, 12:48:36 pm
http://wgfforum.llsint.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=638&page=2

this thread got a little nutty..

colbert's 3rd response to me is very funny.
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: TheSituation on March 21, 2010, 02:29:45 pm
http://wgfforum.llsint.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=638&page=2

this thread got a little nutty..

colbert's 3rd response to me is very funny.


You have no experience with shooting yourself in the head, so you can't say its bad.

That's basically what hes saying
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on March 21, 2010, 06:14:02 pm
http://wgfforum.llsint.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=638&page=2

this thread got a little nutty..

colbert's 3rd response to me is very funny.


You have no experience with shooting yourself in the head, so you can't say its bad.

That's basically what hes saying

ya exactly.. or how about this one, let me modify his post (my modifications in bold):



"Take no offense but experience is the only credible authority. So i understand your assertions but its kinda like Buddhism. Almost all religions require you to place faith in something you cannot experience (at least most cant -- think grace) But Buddhism and other similar eastern religions say, "dont believe us, dont believe anything, instead try and see for yourself sit meditate and experience directly. It is the same with gay sex. No matter what arguments you make they are nothing but hollow words thrown against the certainty that is my own experience. Have I mastered gay sex? HELL NO!!! Have I had gay sex and seen results that I can only explain via high levels of pleasure? HELL YES!!! That being said, don't believe me. I challenge you to find out for yourself. Then perhaps some of jays claims wont sound as outrageous.

So to answer your questions: "Why should I put my trust into anything Jay Schroeder says based on the statements above, that came directly out of his mouth, not in jest, but stated as fact?"

You shouldn't you should use your own mind and your own body to discover for yourself. By your own admission you've yet to do this."


EW WTF COME ON DOG FUCK THAT.
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: AlexV on March 22, 2010, 03:20:36 pm
hahahaha

Still no answer on ultrafitevosport

the discussion on WGF is comical.  I am sick of iso extremes!!!!  Lets talk about what is next!  What comes next? 

Oh that is right Jay only uses extreme isos.  Nothing else.  But we have countless evidence that proves this is BS. 

FWIW I have heard 2 athletes say to me that Jay saved their career.  They also didn't only do ldisos. 

So  It can;t be both ways!

What comes next and where do they fit into his whole system?

What comes next?
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: Kellyb on March 22, 2010, 05:41:07 pm
I am convinced Colbert bought into the Schroeder hype long ago and everything he's read or learned has been to try and verify all that Schroeder has told him.  Unfortunately for him, Schroeder bullshited him too, so all this time he's been supporting a red herring.

I remember that seminar back east somewhere Schroeder had.  It was back in '06 I believe.  A lot of different strength coaches were at that seminar. It was the one where he talked about extreme isos, 100 whole eggs per day and yelled at a bunch of people.  I've talked with or heard from probably 7 or 8 different people who told me what a laughter it was, but Colbert was there too and evidently he's the only one out of that entire group that bought into it hook, line, and sinker.
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on March 22, 2010, 05:55:04 pm
I am convinced Colbert bought into the Schroeder hype long ago and everything he's read or learned has been to try and verify all that Schroeder has told him.  Unfortunately for him, Schroeder bullshited him too, so all this time he's been supporting a red herring.

I remember that seminar back east somewhere Schroeder had.  It was back in '06 I believe.  A lot of different strength coaches were at that seminar. It was the one where he talked about extreme isos, 100 whole eggs per day and yelled at a bunch of people.  I've talked with or heard from probably 7 or 8 different people who told me what a laughter it was, but Colbert was there too and evidently he's the only one out of that entire group that bought into it hook, line, and sinker.

ya I notice that too.. he's a disciple for sure, completely brainwashed. Schroeder is like a religious leader, it's amazing. His first high priest seems to be James Colbert.

WHY THE FUCK do they keep discussing LDISO's on WGF's forum? There is absolutely no WGF talk, ever. It's only Schroeder nuthugging, thread after thread, page after page.

I'm confused by that, I would think Korfist would come on and be like: Listen shut the fuck up & talk WGF methodology.

?????!?!?!?
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: AlexV on March 22, 2010, 05:59:02 pm
Thats why Korfist said he like s my forum better :)
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on March 22, 2010, 06:07:06 pm
Thats why Korfist said he like s my forum better :)


hahahahahahahaahah..

the truth.
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: eblock on March 22, 2010, 09:29:08 pm
Has any one met James Colbert in person….

I mean, has anyone thought that he might be Jay, writing under another persons name…..
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on March 22, 2010, 09:33:26 pm
Has any one met James Colbert in person….

I mean, has anyone thought that he might be Jay, writing under another persons name…..


lol.. It crossed my mind briefly but, man I don't know. I've searched his name on google etc, looking for creds/athletes/results. I really can't find anything. I've asked him for his own results a few times in this recent thread, no response. When (and if) he answers I'll ask him if he has anything on the web about him or his athletes, or who he has trained etc.

I sense the Schroeder-bubble on the verge of completely busting. It's already sickle-celled at this point :)

So is there anything about James Colbert on the net that anyone knows of?

good post.
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on March 22, 2010, 09:46:15 pm
I can't find shit on James Colbert, using tags like EvoSport & Strength Coach etc. I've never been able too, but, there is ZERO on google.
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: AlexV on March 23, 2010, 01:03:42 am
I can't find shit on James Colbert, using tags like EvoSport & Strength Coach etc. I've never been able too, but, there is ZERO on google.

james was at the holy cross seminar so i think eric cressey has met him and maybe mike robertson too.   so he is real.  Now that i got james to elaborate beyond the ldiso stuff i am going to play nice and try to get some more info out of him about this system.
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on March 23, 2010, 01:19:35 am
I can't find shit on James Colbert, using tags like EvoSport & Strength Coach etc. I've never been able too, but, there is ZERO on google.

james was at the holy cross seminar so i think eric cressey has met him and maybe mike robertson too.   so he is real.  Now that i got james to elaborate beyond the ldiso stuff i am going to play nice and try to get some more info out of him about this system.

lol.. I saw that. His reply was one of the worst replies I've ever read, it lacks any sort of indication of "experience" with elite level athletes:

"
after this it would depend on the individual not the sport or position the play etc. The traits that are holding back elite performance of the body as a whole are trained. my understanding here would be inferior to Jays by far but adaptation is not difficult when the body is . disinhibited Thats why I harp on the isos and disinhibiting and thus potentiating the body. once you do this, the hard part, everything else is pretty easy, you turn into that guy that seems to adapt to any stimulus, you know the guy, that one athlete you've trained that seems to never overtrain and can prospers with almost anything you throw at him. Then you can bench press your max 50 times in a training session, adapt, and do it again the next day. you guys ask me what you do after the isos, I respond, what do you want to do? Faster, ok lets get on the track and you sprint maximally get your heart rate to its maximum and hold it there as long as you can, 4 seconds, ok lets do it 20 more times and do it again tomorrow. You bet your ass your gunna adapt. But you cant do this if your body is inhibited, if the neurological reflex pathways are not working for you but against you."





ok so if he is real, where does he coach/train, and who? Is there any info out there? I mean why are these people such a mystery?

cya


edit: he's full of shit if you ask me, very shady :)
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: AlexV on March 23, 2010, 01:39:12 am
I can't find shit on James Colbert, using tags like EvoSport & Strength Coach etc. I've never been able too, but, there is ZERO on google.

james was at the holy cross seminar so i think eric cressey has met him and maybe mike robertson too.   so he is real.  Now that i got james to elaborate beyond the ldiso stuff i am going to play nice and try to get some more info out of him about this system.

lol.. I saw that. His reply was one of the worst replies I've ever read, it lacks any sort of indication of "experience" with elite level athletes:

"
after this it would depend on the individual not the sport or position the play etc. The traits that are holding back elite performance of the body as a whole are trained. my understanding here would be inferior to Jays by far but adaptation is not difficult when the body is . disinhibited Thats why I harp on the isos and disinhibiting and thus potentiating the body. once you do this, the hard part, everything else is pretty easy, you turn into that guy that seems to adapt to any stimulus, you know the guy, that one athlete you've trained that seems to never overtrain and can prospers with almost anything you throw at him. Then you can bench press your max 50 times in a training session, adapt, and do it again the next day. you guys ask me what you do after the isos, I respond, what do you want to do? Faster, ok lets get on the track and you sprint maximally get your heart rate to its maximum and hold it there as long as you can, 4 seconds, ok lets do it 20 more times and do it again tomorrow. You bet your ass your gunna adapt. But you cant do this if your body is inhibited, if the neurological reflex pathways are not working for you but against you."





ok so if he is real, where does he coach/train, and who? Is there any info out there? I mean why are these people such a mystery?

cya


edit: he's full of shit if you ask me, very shady :)

I think he just trains himself and coaches no one.  Don;t worry i am not about to go have athletes sprint maximally 20 reps every day. 

I would love some before and after type stuff on him. 
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on March 23, 2010, 01:39:54 am
LOL

post from THIBTHZ on CF:


Quote
Christian Thibaudeau  Christian Thibaudeau is offline
Member
        
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Canada
Posts: 166
Rep Power: 9
Christian Thibaudeau is on a distinguished road



I cannot say for certain, but I'm 90% sure that the "special drink" used by Schroedder is on of the following:

No.1 1 hour before training and during the recovery period

- 100g of sugar in 8 ounces of water
- Add 10 drops of pharmaceutical hydrochloric acid
- Boil for 20 minutes
- Add 0.5 grams of vitamin C and 8grams of citric acid

No.2 30-60 minutes before an intense workout

- 120g of sour cream
- 60g sunflower-seed oil
- 1 egg yolk
- 100g of orange juice
- 25g of lemon juice

These are taken from "Secrets of Soviet Sports Fitness and Training" by Yessis. Considering that Schroedder used much of the same sources as Yessis, it is quite possible (probable in fact) that he used the same formula (which he probably modified a bit).
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on March 23, 2010, 01:47:06 am
An 2008 iso thread on CF, started by Sir KellyB:

http://www.charliefrancis.com/community/showthread.php?t=18036&highlight=Schroeder


iso extremes are just too fucking hilarious.
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: bbrewster on March 23, 2010, 11:52:27 am
I've been met with utter silence by Robert Stock and Charles Maka after asking the follow up questions.

I'm also curious as to who this James Colbert actually is. It seems to me that if he was legit he would have no problem posting some stats or even videos.

What a joke.
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: bball2020 on March 23, 2010, 12:58:03 pm
which reminds me, darqui, surprised u havent done a sqautdr call em out yet...obviously its coming....
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: Kellyb on March 23, 2010, 01:33:40 pm
He has said before that he just trains himself and doesn't coach anyone. 

I'd be suprrised honestly if he even trains at all. In my experience most people that act like he does are pure theoreticians only. They think everything has to be super complicated because they have no personal verificaton that it doesn't.

He obviously has big time gaps in his knowledge and doesn't understand basic physiology. I've always had the impression he was some young guy that fell in love with Schroeder and just regurgitates and reads everything Schroeder tells him without any clue how it fits into a bigger picture of information  So if you didn't know better it might seem like hes talking advanced calculus, but then you see these huge gaps that make it obvious he can't even add 2 + 2.  Some of the stuff from '06 back on CF.com were entirely laughable.
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: AlexV on March 23, 2010, 02:59:22 pm
So basically Jay doesn;t want to share any info, just sell 2 page pdf programs, err.  i mean 4 page pdf programs for $100 and if you want help you must buy it.  The programs dont even say how long to follow them.  so how long are you supposed to do the prep program?

Then there is james who, well, is james and refuses to get off ldisos and talk about the opther pahses of training. 

Jays athletes are no help cause he doesn;t really teach why he does things to his customers that pay him thousands of dollars (must be the eastern philosophy "you hold all the answers to your questions inside of you").

So what is the point.  Brandon Green trained with him and even he doesn;t get half the stuff jay talks about and he is interested in training, although he does his  extreme isos weighted for 60 secs, like kelly recommended. 

Kesh on wgf trained with jay in person and gave a good outline of what he did about a year ago-i think it was him- (lotsa weighted 60 second extreme isos, and some other stuff) and in the recent wgf thread he asked if he was the only non expert in the forum yet he is the only person who has trained with jay in person for an extended period of time...

lets see how big this ldiso thread can get.  i say shoot for 150 pages!!  All saying "do ezxterme isos cause they are the ultimate and ignore the fact that i lift heavy, sprint, and do plyos."



ugh
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on March 23, 2010, 03:43:25 pm
which reminds me, darqui, surprised u havent done a sqautdr call em out yet...obviously its coming....

nah i already called him out.. he's a good guy, decent athlete, but no world record holder. no need to rehash it IMO.

pc
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on March 23, 2010, 03:45:29 pm
He has said before that he just trains himself and doesn't coach anyone. 

I'd be suprrised honestly if he even trains at all. In my experience most people that act like he does are pure theoreticians only. They think everything has to be super complicated because they have no personal verificaton that it doesn't.

He obviously has big time gaps in his knowledge and doesn't understand basic physiology. I've always had the impression he was some young guy that fell in love with Schroeder and just regurgitates and reads everything Schroeder tells him without any clue how it fits into a bigger picture of information  So if you didn't know better it might seem like hes talking advanced calculus, but then you see these huge gaps that make it obvious he can't even add 2 + 2.  Some of the stuff from '06 back on CF.com were entirely laughable.


ya I tried finding the very old threads but couldn't, need to try harder :)

I'm kind of surprised how no one on WGF seems to be annoyed that he won't post his credentials or who he's worked with, or what he's achieved? Most of those people on there are complete idiots, it's amazing.

Another 100 page thread will be created with dialogue between sheep & a sheep herder.

heh.
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on March 23, 2010, 05:46:01 pm
all posts by james colbert on CF:

http://www.charliefrancis.com/community/search.php?searchid=943295




James Colbert & CF get into it, hilarious:

http://www.charliefrancis.com/community/showthread.php?t=21&highlight=isometric&page=6

Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on March 23, 2010, 05:52:37 pm
fuck this is even better, James Colbert in the low bar squat thread:

http://www.charliefrancis.com/community/showthread.php?p=154341#post154341
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on March 23, 2010, 06:05:00 pm
"u guys are missing the point... i realize this is charlies sight and ben was he baby but even charlie will agree you to exceed the performance of others you cant do the samething. how about training like milo of croton. he was the greatest olympian of all time u kno wut he did, squats with a baby cow everyday till it was full grown (legend ofcourse). the point is guys you want to do the same old thing. you dont want to evolve training.if ur saying to urself "man hes stressing onver one little thing" then yes i am and u should be to. what it tells me is you dont want to best, and im not talking about being th ebest in the world i mean the best you can be as an indvidual. lol just cause ben didnt do it does that mean it cant be valid. well shit ben didnt use vibrational training but it still can beenfit an athlete. ben and the way he trained should be a point of departure not the destination. that goes for any great athelete. you take a look at what it took to get him there and then you try to better the method. if not you or anyone will never exceed his achievments, that is unless some gentic freak comes along who can increase their squat a 100 lbs by jump roping." -- James Colbert






"ur not naive and ur not wrong a study showing us the way would be nice. but there are two problems with that. first studies are usually wrong or limited because they only address a few factors when truely the interaction of many many factors determines the outcome.
2. tell me when a study was done b4 a coach or athelte had already applied the given knowledge. studies usually come in to reinforce what atheltes and coaches already knew.

i get the impression that you think im trying to convert you. im not. in the kindess way i can say it, i could give a flying F*^& what you do in your life or in the gym, and that was said with the utmost resepect im only presenting what i know to be true.

now for you, because it doesnt have the "proof" you so desire you must decide. you must look at what ive written and decide for yourself if the logic is there or not. dont simply think , well no one else in th epat has done it so it must not be worth shit. this is the thining of aloser because only a winner is willing to do what others do not b4 they have the confirmation that what they are doing is right. research the topic for yourself. i reccomend some bondarchuck, verk, and zat. because they all present alot info that supports this. Bondarcuk has a book commin out called tranfer to training. may be a good read." -- James Colbert







Yo, call 9-11, can't breef. How is that even the same guy? He used to type aol-style, now he's mad proper.

I mean, I've still retained my aol-style. Gotta keep it street.
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: TheSituation on March 23, 2010, 06:22:04 pm
(http://askthetrainer.com/image-files/bro-science.jpg)
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on March 23, 2010, 06:54:34 pm
(http://askthetrainer.com/image-files/bro-science.jpg)

Up 100lb from I,BB right? Using Anaconda stack?

Nevermind, those results are accredited to iso extreme pushups & ARP.
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on March 23, 2010, 07:32:41 pm
THE CODE HAS JUST BEEN CRACKED



James Colbert, in the low bar squat thread, typed as if he was straight from AOL (america online): http://www.charliefrancis.com/community/showpost.php?p=154375&postcount=31

What was Jay Schroeder's email? cccp1@aol.com

SCHROEDER

IS

COLBERT


finkel is einhorn

SCHROEDER IS COLBERT

god damn.



Schroeder: http://www.charliefrancis.com/community/showpost.php?p=155292&postcount=186 (http://www.charliefrancis.com/community/showpost.php?p=155292&postcount=186)

nuts.

The crying game music is playing in the background.




ps: Colbert being called out on education/creds in 2007

http://www.charliefrancis.com/community/showpost.php?p=155250&postcount=174
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: TheSituation on March 23, 2010, 07:40:28 pm
Agent Adarqui
(http://clutch3.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/gilbert_arenass.jpg)
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on March 23, 2010, 07:55:06 pm
Ok, so here's the possible scenarios.

1. James Colbert is a diehard Schroeder disciple with no real experience in the field.

2. James Colbert is a diehard Schroder disciple with experience in the field, but is reluctant to talk about it because he trains Usain Bolt.

3. James Colbert IS Jay Schroder. James Colbert has been promoting Schroder & iso extremes for basically 7 years. If you go back and read his posts on CF, he sounds eerily similar to Jay, except he types like an AOL'r. Could it be that Jay Schroeder "acquired" this individuals identity, since people recall meeting James Colbert at a seminar, and then used this identity to promote his ideology on WGF & CF, using a purposefully misleading AOL schoolgirl lingo? This possibly, as extreme as it sounds, does not sound too far fetched too me, considering Jay's claims in most shocking.

#4. Colbert could be some hired troll too, attract stupid flys to get caught Schroeders web of lies.



I'm going with #1 or #3, and am heavily leaning towards #3.

FUCKING INSANE RIGHT?
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: zgin on March 23, 2010, 07:59:08 pm
definitely #2. him and luke lowrey team up to train 200 athletes with 50 inch verticals. These athletes are so talented, they will scare the public so they are locked in luke lowrey's basement. Their neural system is so aggressive that when released from luke's basement, they will hunt down all foreigners which is people who have verts below 50 inches. Thats why lowrey doesnt reveal who he trains.
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: mattyg35 on March 23, 2010, 08:00:51 pm
Colbert could be some hired troll too, attract stupid flys to get caught Schroeders web of lies.
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on March 23, 2010, 08:01:50 pm
Colbert could be some hired troll too, attract stupid flys to get caught Schroeders web of lies.

Yeah, that's definitely one of the possible scenarios, but reading Colbert's old threads on CF, i'm going with #3.

I'll add yours as #4 since it is worded so badassly.
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on March 23, 2010, 08:19:08 pm
thanks eblock.

:)
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: bbrewster on March 23, 2010, 08:59:16 pm
damn.

Don't mess with Adarqui
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: nba8340 on March 23, 2010, 09:04:40 pm
pls do luke lowrey next adarq
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on March 23, 2010, 09:07:12 pm
damn.

Don't mess with Adarqui

well, don't mess with athletes steering them in the wrong direction for years, having them chasing their tails.

also

don't scam athletes with a bunch of b.s.

then adarqui won't be mad.

nor will alexv

nor will kellyb, rip, jcs, etc etc.

nor most anyone




if you ever see me calling out Verkhoshansky/Francis, or someone on that level, then the gravity is about to inverse, since they've done more to steer it in the right direction than just about anybody. Even though CF has those PED issues, his info is completely solid.

peace man
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on March 23, 2010, 09:07:41 pm
pls do luke lowrey next adarq

he's too easy, but he'll be called out for sure eventually.
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: eblock on March 23, 2010, 09:14:43 pm
call me kesh
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on March 23, 2010, 09:33:28 pm
call me kesh

:)

I really think you're initial assumption is correct. How insane would that be? The "low bar squat thread" and a bunch of those CF threads I link, just cement that theory hardcore IMO.

peace man
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: bball2020 on March 23, 2010, 09:35:43 pm
do a search of colbert on elitefts...pretty sure hes asked questions on there..pretty sure he is not a fake...
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on March 25, 2010, 06:45:45 pm
do a search of colbert on elitefts...pretty sure hes asked questions on there..pretty sure he is not a fake...

you got a link to any? he's so full of shit.
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on March 25, 2010, 06:48:51 pm
"I didn't think you were kesh. please understand, I want to help you, I am trying to help you but I can't put the wealth of my knowledge and experience into a few posts. I can describe the positions but I cant correct you because I am not there with you. I understand your frustration. 3 months ha, i struggled for 3+ years. So what does it matter if I say the first time I performed these I lost body fat while gaining 16 lbs in a lil over a month. Or my vert increasing a foot. Non of that matters, because non of that will help you accomplish your goals. Its just something to distract you from what you need to be doing to get the results you want. Im sry if you do not understand the positions as I have explained them.

Tell me what you feel and what you do during the iso lunge, start to failure, step by step." -- James Colbert


Took him 3+ years to figure out iso extremes, but once he did, he gained 16 lb lean mass in a little over a month, and his vert increased 12 inches.

Man
That
Is
EXTREME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on March 26, 2010, 01:12:49 am
What to do after ~3 years of iso extremes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oOijwrJYIA
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: ARowe on March 26, 2010, 05:06:41 pm
What to do after ~3 years of iso extremes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oOijwrJYIA


He took deep breaths, made noise, moved his head, blinked... session was useless, start over.

P.I.P.E.S  MOTHER F**KER
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on March 26, 2010, 05:20:44 pm

He took deep breaths, made noise, moved his head, blinked... session was useless, start over.

P.I.P.E.S  MOTHER F**KER

EXACTLY.. You have been taught well young jedi warrior.
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on May 13, 2010, 09:40:19 pm
Dear UltraFit EvoSport Member,
  Please take a moment to read this message from Ultrafit Evosport founder Frank "Jay" Schroeder:
There has been much speculation pertaining to the intricacies of the Ultrafit Evosport system. Some people who know me have attempted to outline the system, but, while many use key words and phrases, none have come close to illuminating the heart of the system.
I have heard people say that this is because I am unwilling to teach the Ultrafit Evosport system, but this is not true at all. I have phone, e-mail, and text message conversations with many inquirers during which I offer suggestions as to how to learn the system, but these suggestions are rejected because they are not convenient, and undoubtedly the conversation ends with me being asked to just give the inquirer all the answers. Why won't I do this? To truly understand the Ultrafit Evosport system one cannot just be given information. If it were that simple, it would be like most of the other strength and conditioning systems that propagate mediocrity.
True understanding of the Ultrafit Evosport system can only be achieved when one can execute the system properly; this is where difficulties arise. Proper execution requires the ability to react immediately to a stimulus, such that the stimulus does not alter moment to moment experience. With immediate, appropriate neurological, hormonal, and immune related responses anyone can flourish with predictable and proper responses relating to performance, recovery, and restoration.
However, in order to react immediately, as described, one must be able to interpret information in an extremely short time frame to elicit the correct response. This cannot be achieved unless a base level of all performance parameters is possessed. The Ultrafit Evosport performance parameters include max force, max velocity, starting strength, acceleration, position, and velocity endurance. Once the basics become predictable, variables can be introduced, which necessitates preparation for the result of the response to these variables. This is an arduous process, but if adhered to properly, it is limitlessly replicable and elite performance results can be achieved on command in any situation.
Ultrafit Evosport will be conducting seminars that will take participants through all entry level aspects of the system in the unique Ultrafit Evosport manner. This is the first step to true understanding of the Ultrafit Evosport system in the way that is was meant to be learned. The first of such seminars will take place at the Ultrafit Evosport facility in Phoenix, AZ the weekend of June 5th. The details of the seminar are below; when you get a chance, watch the video on the home page of www.ultrafitevosport.com. To register for the seminar visit the "store" section of the site and click on "programs", the seminar will be the first item listed on that page. Remember, you must be logged in on the website in order to visit the store.
Regards,
  Frank "Jay" Schroeder


UltraFit EvoSport Presents Iso Extremes: From Knowledge to Results, the Background, Theory, Technique, and Practical Seminar
This seminar will consist of in depth explanation of all UltraFit EvoSport iso extreme exercises from iso extreme push up to standing extreme hamstring.  This includes proper methodology, implementation, correction, and application. You will leave having learnt and experienced iso extremes.
This seminar will take place on Saturday, June 5th and Sunday, June 6th, 2010. There will be a morning session that covers lower body iso extreme exercises and an afternoon session that covers upper body iso extreme exercises on Saturday June 5th, and a morning wrap-up session on Sunday June 6th. The seminar will be held in the UltraFit EvoSport facility in Phoenix, AZ. The address is: 5031 E. Elliot Rd. Phoenix, AZ 85044.
There are three different options for attending the seminar: morning session only, afternoon session only, or full seminar. The prices reflected here are for internet pre-registration only, prices will change at the door.
**Price List:
Full Seminar- $500
Full Seminar Student Price- $250
Morning Session Only- $300
Afternoon Session Only- $300
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: vag on May 14, 2010, 04:25:51 am
ahahahahaha.. .awesome

This letter in summary:

Dear all.
You blame me that i dont explain how my system works.
The truth is that i dont explain how my system works.
My system is the shit!
Pay me.
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on May 14, 2010, 05:07:14 am
ahahahahaha.. .awesome

This letter in summary:

Dear all.
You blame me that i dont explain how my system works.
The truth is that i dont explain how my system works.
My system is the shit!
Pay me.

ya basically, his seminar is on iso extremes, i mean, havn't we heard enough about them.. shouldn't his seminar be breifly on iso extremes, and then what comes after iso extremes?

$500 mang!!!!!!
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: vag on May 14, 2010, 05:14:05 am
ahahahahaha.. .awesome

This letter in summary:

Dear all.
You blame me that i dont explain how my system works.
The truth is that i dont explain how my system works.
My system is the shit!
Pay me.

ya basically, his seminar is on iso extremes, i mean, havn't we heard enough about them.. shouldn't his seminar be breifly on iso extremes, and then what comes after iso extremes?

$500 mang!!!!!!

Yeah , thats the best part , he insists that he must not explain you.
500$ for NOT explaining.

Extreme ISO wallet emptying hold. :D
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on May 14, 2010, 05:15:02 am
ahahahahaha.. .awesome

This letter in summary:

Dear all.
You blame me that i dont explain how my system works.
The truth is that i dont explain how my system works.
My system is the shit!
Pay me.

ya basically, his seminar is on iso extremes, i mean, havn't we heard enough about them.. shouldn't his seminar be breifly on iso extremes, and then what comes after iso extremes?

$500 mang!!!!!!

Yeah , thats the best part , he insists that her must not explain you.
500$ for NOT explaining.

Extreme ISO wallet emptying hold. :D

everyone get in the lunge position, now hold it, no flinching or movement.. *steals money out of their pocket as they are unwiling to stop him, must stay focused*
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on June 15, 2010, 08:05:28 pm
LOL

http://i48.tinypic.com/2wf44tj.png



(http://i48.tinypic.com/2wf44tj.png)

owned2tehMAX.
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on June 23, 2010, 01:58:10 am
A great post by Kesh on WGF, he attended the Schroeder seminar:

http://wgfforum.llsint.com/Forums/showthread.php?p=7020

definitely worth the read...

peace
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: LanceSTS on July 10, 2010, 12:30:35 am
  Okay, I was back and forth about mentioning this and I dont know if what Im about to say is old news or not but I saw where Alex V. and some others were really wanting to know more of Schroeders system past the isos and this may or may not help but Im going to say it anyways.  A while back when he was not nearly as popular and was working with Archuletta my friend and I stumbled upon some hype about some of the crazy techniques they were using to get athletes more explosive.  We were/are both heavily into athletic training and he ended up with a video of Schroeder, Archuletta, and a few other athletes (I didnt recognize) going through several training sessions and Jay explained alot more in the vid than he apparently is on his site.  It looked like a bootleg dvd and I am not sure where it came from or how he attained it but it had alot more training and info on it than what is being said on the site now.  They did the isos, I specifically remember a BSS variant with the rear leg elevated on a ridiculously high box and held it for a massive amount of time (I dont remember exact timing but it was close to 3 min. at least), and did this with the GHR and had a "special" way of loading it with a dumbell held behind the neck that he was hyping.  They also did alot of isos with added partner resistance, I think Archuletta had 225 on the bench and when he touched his chest with it Schroeder pushed down hard and had him resist for a few seconds, then come up and proceeded to do it a few more times with more lifts.  They were doing alot of heavily loaded shock training as well and that sticks out in my mind more than anything.  Archuletta was being dropped with a loaded barbell (I think 225) from a special cage and catching it in a quarter squat position.  They even had a special bench to do the "catch" bench presses with.  Lots more things of this nature and plyo rotating pushups, box drops into lunges, etc.  but you get the general idea.  I dont remeber everything but I will contact my friend and see if he still has the dvd and find out where it came from if anyone is interested.  Again if this is old news then i am sorry I just didnt see anything being said about all the reactive loaded movements they did and this was something he called a special level or something like that.  hope some of that was useful lol.
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: LanceSTS on July 10, 2010, 12:37:14 am
 Basically he was implying to build the base with the isos in the bottom positions, then progress to the next "phase" or "level" or whatever the hell he kept calling it.  It all boiled down to progressing into loaded, reactive, "catch" type movements with as much weight as one could absorb.  He went on and on about absorbtion and how that was big ticket.  I remember thinking some of it was cool but didnt know he would blow up into what he is now. 
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on July 10, 2010, 12:43:21 am
 Okay, I was back and forth about mentioning this and I dont know if what Im about to say is old news or not but I saw where Alex V. and some others were really wanting to know more of Schroeders system past the isos and this may or may not help but Im going to say it anyways.  A while back when he was not nearly as popular and was working with Archuletta my friend and I stumbled upon some hype about some of the crazy techniques they were using to get athletes more explosive.  We were/are both heavily into athletic training and he ended up with a video of Schroeder, Archuletta, and a few other athletes (I didnt recognize) going through several training sessions and Jay explained alot more in the vid than he apparently is on his site.  It looked like a bootleg dvd and I am not sure where it came from or how he attained it but it had alot more training and info on it than what is being said on the site now.  They did the isos, I specifically remember a BSS variant with the rear leg elevated on a ridiculously high box and held it for a massive amount of time (I dont remember exact timing but it was close to 3 min. at least), and did this with the GHR and had a "special" way of loading it with a dumbell held behind the neck that he was hyping.  They also did alot of isos with added partner resistance, I think Archuletta had 225 on the bench and when he touched his chest with it Schroeder pushed down hard and had him resist for a few seconds, then come up and proceeded to do it a few more times with more lifts.  They were doing alot of heavily loaded shock training as well and that sticks out in my mind more than anything.  Archuletta was being dropped with a loaded barbell (I think 225) from a special cage and catching it in a quarter squat position.  They even had a special bench to do the "catch" bench presses with.  Lots more things of this nature and plyo rotating pushups, box drops into lunges, etc.  but you get the general idea.  I dont remeber everything but I will contact my friend and see if he still has the dvd and find out where it came from if anyone is interested.  Again if this is old news then i am sorry I just didnt see anything being said about all the reactive loaded movements they did and this was something he called a special level or something like that.  hope some of that was useful lol.

interesting.. i never saw some of the stuff you mentioned. I had freak of training dvd, and it definitely lacked the loaded barbell quarter squat drop stuff, which sounds pretty insane hah.. Freak of training also didn't have any long isos, it was just a quick example of how they hold the isos, nothing how he teaches them now, no cues of pulling into position etc, but it was BSS like you mentioned. I don't remember seeing drop catch bench/bench throws on there either..

Sounds like you saw something different than freak of training, if your friend still has it that would be pretty interesting to check out.

peace man



edit: i would imagine those loaded back squat 'drops' were REA squats? Alot of inno sport seems to have roots with schroeder, from one of his interns.
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on July 10, 2010, 12:45:02 am
Basically he was implying to build the base with the isos in the bottom positions, then progress to the next "phase" or "level" or whatever the hell he kept calling it.  It all boiled down to progressing into loaded, reactive, "catch" type movements with as much weight as one could absorb.  He went on and on about absorbtion and how that was big ticket.  I remember thinking some of it was cool but didnt know he would blow up into what he is now. 

that's a much better ideology than: "master the 5 minute iso extremes, that's all you need", I can get behind an ideology like the one just mentioned.. :)
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: LanceSTS on July 10, 2010, 01:04:50 am
  Yeah Ive seen the Freak of Training dvd if thats the one that is basically a brief promotional video for his training but this was like a blank dvd (may have just been a copy) was alot different (ie.  if I remember correctly the date and time was on the screen, someone was walking with a camera etc. if I remember correctly).   And yea he had special benches with "faceguards" for the drop and catch stuff as well as a wierd ass squat rack that allowed the drops.  That was one reason I thought this thread was strange because the guys were basically showing a couple of different days of training.  This was a long time ago and I wish I could remember more of what was on there but I am positive about the basis of what he was getting at was a progression into loaded shock training for the mass of the program.  But who knows, after reading all this thread it could have been fake for all I know but I do know what Archuletta looks like and am 100% positive about him being on there.  Dont recall what Schroeder looks like but there was somebody pretending to be him if it wasnt and all the athletes were listening to him like he was the boss lol.
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on July 10, 2010, 01:07:04 am
  Yeah Ive seen the Freak of Training dvd if thats the one that is basically a brief promotional video for his training but this was like a blank dvd (may have just been a copy) was alot different (ie.  if I remember correctly the date and time was on the screen, someone was walking with a camera etc. if I remember correctly).   And yea he had special benches with "faceguards" for the drop and catch stuff as well as a wierd ass squat rack that allowed the drops.  That was one reason I thought this thread was strange because the guys were basically showing a couple of different days of training.  This was a long time ago and I wish I could remember more of what was on there but I am positive about the basis of what he was getting at was a progression into loaded shock training for the mass of the program.  But who knows, after reading all this thread it could have been fake for all I know but I do know what Archuletta looks like and am 100% positive about him being on there.  Dont recall what Schroeder looks like but there was somebody pretending to be him if it wasnt and all the athletes were listening to him like he was the boss lol.

i think i've seen a very short clip of that footage somewhere, the raw footage with the time on the video.. i think i saw it on tv, but that's the extent i saw of it.. i've never seen that footage in its entirety, i doubt many others have either.. it would be on youtube for sure, alot of that stuff.
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: LanceSTS on July 10, 2010, 01:10:27 am
 I just saw where you asked about the squats being reactive squats, and hell yea, they DROPPED the dude from a cage IN THE AIR and he landed in a quarter or half squat.  I definitely remember seeing that as I was in shock and Im almost positive he had 225 on his back.
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: LanceSTS on July 10, 2010, 01:14:29 am
  Yeah Ive seen the Freak of Training dvd if thats the one that is basically a brief promotional video for his training but this was like a blank dvd (may have just been a copy) was alot different (ie.  if I remember correctly the date and time was on the screen, someone was walking with a camera etc. if I remember correctly).   And yea he had special benches with "faceguards" for the drop and catch stuff as well as a wierd ass squat rack that allowed the drops.  That was one reason I thought this thread was strange because the guys were basically showing a couple of different days of training.  This was a long time ago and I wish I could remember more of what was on there but I am positive about the basis of what he was getting at was a progression into loaded shock training for the mass of the program.  But who knows, after reading all this thread it could have been fake for all I know but I do know what Archuletta looks like and am 100% positive about him being on there.  Dont recall what Schroeder looks like but there was somebody pretending to be him if it wasnt and all the athletes were listening to him like he was the boss lol.

i think i've seen a very short clip of that footage somewhere, the raw footage with the time on the video.. i think i saw it on tv, but that's the extent i saw of it.. i've never seen that footage in its entirety, i doubt many others have either.. it would be on youtube for sure, alot of that stuff.

maybe thats the same thing then Idk I will call him for sure tomorrow and see if he still has it.
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on July 10, 2010, 01:21:57 am
I just saw where you asked about the squats being reactive squats, and hell yea, they DROPPED the dude from a cage IN THE AIR and he landed in a quarter or half squat.  I definitely remember seeing that as I was in shock and Im almost positive he had 225 on his back.

what the fuck lol!

ya man call your friend up@$!
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: LanceSTS on July 10, 2010, 01:29:59 am
Yea I am positive about the squat drop part and the bench drops being on there as well as doing it with dumbells for lateral and front raises, curls and some other shit, but yea that was the whole basic idea of everything or at least thats what I got from it.  I texted him but he might be asleep already but I will find out for sure tomorrow one way or another.  If I get the dvd he has I wont know how to upload it or anything so I will need your help with that.  Best I can think of is play it on my dvd player and record it on my flip while its playing lol.
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: LanceSTS on July 10, 2010, 02:05:49 am
  From one of the older articles its just the first lines but it backs up what I was saying he was talking about in the vid 100%



  Schroeder developed Evo-Sport based on a principle that is widely regarded in strength and conditioning literature but rarely practiced — plyometrics. Nearly every part of the program involves absorbing and rapidly propelling force.

Rather than perform a standard bench press, Schroeder teaches athletes to explode through the movement, release the bar from their hands at the top of the lift, drop their hands to their chests, catch and explode back into the bar as fast as possible. Schroeder keeps his hands ready at all times, watching athletes to make sure they catch the bar.




edit: just found this thread where a guy that trained with him comes on and says the exact same things 

http://tnation.tmuscle.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_strength/jay_schroeder_program

Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: LanceSTS on July 10, 2010, 02:22:58 am
 I was just reading a thread about it and apparently this video is not breaking news as they were all talking about how crazy the stuff was.  it was an elite fitness thread and it said my free time was up or some shit but just search adam archuleta workout vid and it comes up.  here is another article about their training and the eccentrics (some of it)



Schroeder made Archuleta work six to seven hours a day on both upper and lower body. A routine session would include Archuleta doing a bench press, but allowing the weight to fall near his chest and then catching it before hoisting it back up. He would extend one arm and hold a heavy bar in a set position for as long as possible, then do it again.

Today, they still drop and catch barbells and dumbbells, with a precise series of techniques required for each motion. Archuleta does bench presses while trainers and spotters provide strong resistance, keeping the bar pressed against his chest, before immediately hitting the ground to do "rebound push-ups." That entails thrusting his body in the air, maintaining a straight back, and landing on the fingertips before springing back up for another push-up.

There is no stretching in Schroeder's program; it is built into the exercises. The entire body is trained in every session with no days devoted to particular muscle groups.

"The exercises look pretty eccentric," said Dave Shapiro, the athletic director at Chandler High School, who hired Schroeder three years ago to train the school's athletic teams. "
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: LanceSTS on July 11, 2010, 10:29:43 pm
Finally got hold of him, his response "Are you talking about the Archuleta vid you said was retarded?" lol i guess I shouldnt have been so quick to judge, but anyway he didnt know what he did with it.  He said he got it from a guy doing a continuing education project on explosive/reactive type training for athletes, and didnt know if it was only Jay Schroeder and co. in the vid or not (he thinks there was other clips of other coaches and athletes mixed in).  He confirmed everything I said about the cage/rack thing they were dropping the guy from but didnt know if the athlete was Archuleta or not.  (I thought I remeber it being him for sure).  Anyway, I searched like crazy online for copies of some of the clips and came up empty handed.  The best thing I found was the link I posted earlier where the guy comes on who trained with him for a few years and basically explains his system.  It was fairly interesting to read but it still boils down to getting strong enough to absorb force (through different isos as well as traditional heavy lifts), then transitioning to more explosive/reactive exercises where the weights are "caught" and force absorbtion, and finally putting it all together with catch and explode type exercises.  That was just my take on it but it seemed consistent with the video and everything else ive seen from him. 
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on July 12, 2010, 06:21:02 am
Finally got hold of him, his response "Are you talking about the Archuleta vid you said was retarded?" lol i guess I shouldnt have been so quick to judge, but anyway he didnt know what he did with it.  He said he got it from a guy doing a continuing education project on explosive/reactive type training for athletes, and didnt know if it was only Jay Schroeder and co. in the vid or not (he thinks there was other clips of other coaches and athletes mixed in).  He confirmed everything I said about the cage/rack thing they were dropping the guy from but didnt know if the athlete was Archuleta or not.  (I thought I remeber it being him for sure).  Anyway, I searched like crazy online for copies of some of the clips and came up empty handed.  The best thing I found was the link I posted earlier where the guy comes on who trained with him for a few years and basically explains his system. 

so weird how that dvd / footage just isn't anywhere.. usually shit like that pops up all over the place, especially stuff as crazy as what is in the video.

check this out mang, http://www.ultrafitevosport.com/ <-- goto the bottom, click play on that vid.. there's some of the footage you're talking about with the bench press machine etc..


Quote

 It was fairly interesting to read but it still boils down to getting strong enough to absorb force (through different isos as well as traditional heavy lifts), then transitioning to more explosive/reactive exercises where the weights are "caught" and force absorbtion, and finally putting it all together with catch and explode type exercises.  That was just my take on it but it seemed consistent with the video and everything else ive seen from him. 

ya thats a good ideology.. i mean, im not big on isos though, thats for sure.. but the ideology is solid.. i have a problem with these retards who push iso extremes as if that's all you EVER need.. what a bunch of rubbish.. iso extremes implemented in the above progression make plenty of sense.. i personally would use normal isotonic/isometric lifts in place of iso extremes, and still use that progression.. it's solid.

peace man!
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: LanceSTS on July 12, 2010, 06:35:23 am
ha just saw this. I saw the natural ghr post first so thats why I knew where it came from, I had been all over that place trying to find the vid lol.  Yea Im with you on the iso extreme shit, I remember thinking that stuff was garbage and the only gains they are getting are from the plyo catching exercises.  I know they have their place but saying thats all you need is dumb and I would hope everyone knows that.  One of the big knocks against isos in the first place is that they retard normal movements so doing nothing but probably wouldnt be too good.  Guess I gotta join elite fts and see if anyone has it.  Maybe if post my shirted bench, suited squat, and deadlift they will talk to me.
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: AlexV on July 22, 2010, 03:25:45 pm
yeah that guy is brandon green, he [posts on wgf at times.

basically from what he has said they worked like this:

Step 1: Absorb force - Plyos
Step 2: Produce Force - DE lifting 50-80%
Step 3: Max Effort Lifting - 93%+

In my vision i kinda see it like this if yuo wanted to be schroeder esque

Preparatory Stage: LDISO
Step 1: Absorb force - Plyos
Step 2: Produce Force - DE lifting 50-80%
Step 3: Max Effort Lifting - 93%+

Of course Brandon trained with jay before ldisos so obviously thing have changed.  I do think you would see some good results from following the 4 stage program outlined.  But of course this is not what jay does, I just think that the progression could be productive.
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on July 22, 2010, 03:49:08 pm
yeah that guy is brandon green, he [posts on wgf at times.

basically from what he has said they worked like this:

Step 1: Absorb force - Plyos
Step 2: Produce Force - DE lifting 50-80%
Step 3: Max Effort Lifting - 93%+

In my vision i kinda see it like this if yuo wanted to be schroeder esque

Preparatory Stage: LDISO
Step 1: Absorb force - Plyos
Step 2: Produce Force - DE lifting 50-80%
Step 3: Max Effort Lifting - 93%+

Of course Brandon trained with jay before ldisos so obviously thing have changed.  I do think you would see some good results from following the 4 stage program outlined.  But of course this is not what jay does, I just think that the progression could be productive.

yup nice post, that progression seems very solid.. unfortunately people spend 2 years in the LDISO stage now, getting nowhere.. batshit crazy.

but ya, i like alot of what i've seen from his old system, and i'd say alot of us around here (including yourself/myself) have learned some good things from schroeder before (or as he was) going nutty.

peace
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: AlexV on July 24, 2010, 08:34:53 pm
yeah that guy is brandon green, he [posts on wgf at times.

basically from what he has said they worked like this:

Step 1: Absorb force - Plyos
Step 2: Produce Force - DE lifting 50-80%
Step 3: Max Effort Lifting - 93%+

In my vision i kinda see it like this if yuo wanted to be schroeder esque

Preparatory Stage: LDISO
Step 1: Absorb force - Plyos
Step 2: Produce Force - DE lifting 50-80%
Step 3: Max Effort Lifting - 93%+

Of course Brandon trained with jay before ldisos so obviously thing have changed.  I do think you would see some good results from following the 4 stage program outlined.  But of course this is not what jay does, I just think that the progression could be productive.

yup nice post, that progression seems very solid.. unfortunately people spend 2 years in the LDISO stage now, getting nowhere.. batshit crazy.

but ya, i like alot of what i've seen from his old system, and i'd say alot of us around here (including yourself/myself) have learned some good things from schroeder before (or as he was) going nutty.

peace

Lucky for Jay and his clients they never have to go through stages 2-4 and they can just stay in the general prep phase cause ldisos are all you need.

It makes perfect sense that you can improve your power output via training without any actual power output

p=f*d/t where d=0 and t=300 seconds.  f*0/300 = 0.  A true high power situation.  What about the said principle.

XXXtreeemme
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: LanceSTS on August 16, 2010, 01:40:06 am
   http://wgfforum.llsint.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=638&page=42

Third post, Andrews.  Laugh till I cry every time, sorry to bring it back up but that shit is great. Start with "it is my belief" lolz
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on August 16, 2010, 01:45:16 am
  http://wgfforum.llsint.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=638&page=42

Third post, Andrews.  Laugh till I cry every time, sorry to bring it back up but that shit is great. Start with "it is my belief" lolz

lol!@$

good times.. :)
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: LBSS on August 16, 2010, 10:03:15 am
God it's like bizzarro HIT up in there. 30 minute bench press set per arm, "40 sets"? LOLOLOLOLOLOL.
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: LanceSTS on August 16, 2010, 10:11:26 am
yes, with the BAR, 1hr straight lolz.  Its amazing the shit those people are willing to do just because it seems weird or hard, they would love my high school football coach.  Air raids for 1 hr straight, could probably sell his punishment protocol to them for 1000 dollars and get them to believe they will get taller when they master it, only if its done on concrete. Thats why that post Andrew made was so funny, its like they had given credit to fucking iso extremes for everything under the sun already, then to top it off, they may even make you more intelligent!
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on August 16, 2010, 02:47:35 pm
yes, with the BAR, 1hr straight lolz.  Its amazing the shit those people are willing to do just because it seems weird or hard, they would love my high school football coach.  Air raids for 1 hr straight, could probably sell his punishment protocol to them for 1000 dollars and get them to believe they will get taller when they master it, only if its done on concrete. Thats why that post Andrew made was so funny, its like they had given credit to fucking iso extremes for everything under the sun already, then to top it off, they may even make you more intelligent!

ya man it's so odd, most humans seem to have this addiction to believing stupid information or buying into bullshit.

that 1 hour bench press, with just the bar, single arm, is insane.. i can't believe someone there is doing that.. that blows my mind.
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: LanceSTS on August 16, 2010, 03:13:25 pm
 I found this:          http://www.higher-faster-sports.com/DBHammerandJaySchroeder1.html 

Can the template be found anywhere that the wsb guy used of his to gain 30lbs on his max in 4 sessions?  Do you know what it was? was it legit or setup? Sounds like setup to me but kelly seems to believe it so I want to see the program and wtf he did.
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on August 16, 2010, 04:18:16 pm
I found this:          http://www.higher-faster-sports.com/DBHammerandJaySchroeder1.html 

Can the template be found anywhere that the wsb guy used of his to gain 30lbs on his max in 4 sessions?  Do you know what it was? was it legit or setup? Sounds like setup to me but kelly seems to believe it so I want to see the program and wtf he did.

i can't find the todd hamer project url.. it's not cache'd anywhere..

check this though, here's nuttall (db hammer) talking about it on t-nation: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CBcQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Ftnation.tmuscle.com%2Ffree_online_forum%2Fsports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_strength%2Fdb_hammer_1%3FpageNo%3D3&ei=h5xpTO68C4Wclge-g_31Bg&usg=AFQjCNE8iBIw1nKg8xgT9-R4Neqz6BiBMg&sig2=cwl6qhjbLZhvztW9gOxDFw

wtf ????? crappy url

http://tnation.t-nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_strength/db_hammer_1?pageNo=3

:d
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: LanceSTS on August 16, 2010, 05:20:42 pm
  Thanks man, I appreciate it.  I am going to get back to this later, have to get back to training but he started out really bad by saying he got 285lbs out of a double denim shirt.  We have one and I am by no means advanced at geared lifting, but I have a couple of years experience with it and have trained several geared lifters.  I have never seen someone put on a bench shirt for the first time (which he claims he did) and get a carryover over 50-100 lbs.  It is a completely new technique and lift altogether, especially a double ply shirt.  I have to finish reading the whole thread later but definitely interesting and thanks for putting it up.
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on August 16, 2010, 06:10:38 pm
 Thanks man, I appreciate it.  I am going to get back to this later, have to get back to training but he started out really bad by saying he got 285lbs out of a double denim shirt.  We have one and I am by no means advanced at geared lifting, but I have a couple of years experience with it and have trained several geared lifters.  I have never seen someone put on a bench shirt for the first time (which he claims he did) and get a carryover over 50-100 lbs.  It is a completely new technique and lift altogether, especially a double ply shirt.  I have to finish reading the whole thread later but definitely interesting and thanks for putting it up.

285 first time using a double ply shirt, talks about DB as if he's not him, 415 bench 635 squat (both raw), etc.. he's just a typical lying douchebag.

wonder what he's doing now-days..



btw, i am pissed that he says "Peace" at the end of every post.. scammer douches can't use "peace".
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: LanceSTS on August 16, 2010, 08:33:16 pm
lol, yea he's biting off your style.  That is exactly why I hate that anonymous type shit on forums, if you dont have anything to hide then just use your fucking name!  The guy he chose in that training experiment who came from a westside background had highly likely not done a full raw bench press during his training very often.  The exercises Lou uses on max effort day are seldom the actual exercises like raw bench, raw squats, etc. and he has said it numerous times that he doesnt like his guys doing the actual lifts until the meet due to the psychological effect it has on them to miss a lift.  It doesnt bother them to miss a board press or floor press nearly as much as it does to miss an actual bench press.  Since they are lifting geared most the time, partial rom exercises actually carry over well to the gear since it gives so much to the bottom of the lift.  This is why I think the results sounded incredible, but in actuality, were not that big of a deal.  If he had him go right back into doing full rom, actual bench presses, neural factors could easily account for that type of gain.  If the guy was using say a 5x5 bench press template with actual bench press, it would be different, but that is extremely unlikely, especially since he was a wsb lifter.  They make the idea of isos (loaded I guess in this case), followed by drops or ada, followed by whatever advanced term they use for rebounds or depth jumps sound like brain surgery.  And I am still lost as to whether or not the Dietrich guy even existed, especially since you said Brad was db.
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: AlexV on August 16, 2010, 10:31:12 pm
just wanted to say I cracked the DB = Brad Nuttall.

I found some qna's from elitefts.com where David Brad Nuttall asked questions.  Then forwarded to Kelly B and he started spreading the word. 

What a claim to fame, bustin inno-sport.

With that said, the system is built on some fairly sound principles.
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on August 16, 2010, 10:39:43 pm
just wanted to say I cracked the DB = Brad Nuttall.

I found some qna's from elitefts.com where David Brad Nuttall asked questions.  Then forwarded to Kelly B and he started spreading the word. 

*bows down*

that guy is pretty weird though, any idea what he is doing? did he get out of s&c? i don't get how he just disappeared?

Quote
What a claim to fame, bustin inno-sport.

pretty important imo.. regardless of how solid some of inno is, it was presented with so many lies, DB, his athletes, etc..

Quote
With that said, the system is built on some fairly sound principles.

yup
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on August 16, 2010, 10:41:38 pm
lol, yea he's biting off your style.  That is exactly why I hate that anonymous type shit on forums, if you dont have anything to hide then just use your fucking name!  The guy he chose in that training experiment who came from a westside background had highly likely not done a full raw bench press during his training very often.  The exercises Lou uses on max effort day are seldom the actual exercises like raw bench, raw squats, etc. and he has said it numerous times that he doesnt like his guys doing the actual lifts until the meet due to the psychological effect it has on them to miss a lift.  It doesnt bother them to miss a board press or floor press nearly as much as it does to miss an actual bench press.  Since they are lifting geared most the time, partial rom exercises actually carry over well to the gear since it gives so much to the bottom of the lift.  This is why I think the results sounded incredible, but in actuality, were not that big of a deal.  If he had him go right back into doing full rom, actual bench presses, neural factors could easily account for that type of gain.  If the guy was using say a 5x5 bench press template with actual bench press, it would be different, but that is extremely unlikely, especially since he was a wsb lifter.  They make the idea of isos (loaded I guess in this case), followed by drops or ada, followed by whatever advanced term they use for rebounds or depth jumps sound like brain surgery.  And I am still lost as to whether or not the Dietrich guy even existed, especially since you said Brad was db.

ya good post.. and that KB article you posted, is from way back when KB thought DB was real.. KB no longer thinks DB is "real", from what I recall.. hardly does anyone for that matter. Brad Nuttall interned under Schroeder or something.

what a soap opera......... HEH
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: LanceSTS on August 16, 2010, 10:52:56 pm
just wanted to say I cracked the DB = Brad Nuttall.

I found some qna's from elitefts.com where David Brad Nuttall asked questions.  Then forwarded to Kelly B and he started spreading the word. 

What a claim to fame, bustin inno-sport.

With that said, the system is built on some fairly sound principles.

haha awesome! Yea, I like some of the principles but trying to make it sound like rocket science makes it shady, that and having two identities who ask each other questions and answer each other :)
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: LanceSTS on August 16, 2010, 10:56:24 pm
lol, yea he's biting off your style.  That is exactly why I hate that anonymous type shit on forums, if you dont have anything to hide then just use your fucking name!  The guy he chose in that training experiment who came from a westside background had highly likely not done a full raw bench press during his training very often.  The exercises Lou uses on max effort day are seldom the actual exercises like raw bench, raw squats, etc. and he has said it numerous times that he doesnt like his guys doing the actual lifts until the meet due to the psychological effect it has on them to miss a lift.  It doesnt bother them to miss a board press or floor press nearly as much as it does to miss an actual bench press.  Since they are lifting geared most the time, partial rom exercises actually carry over well to the gear since it gives so much to the bottom of the lift.  This is why I think the results sounded incredible, but in actuality, were not that big of a deal.  If he had him go right back into doing full rom, actual bench presses, neural factors could easily account for that type of gain.  If the guy was using say a 5x5 bench press template with actual bench press, it would be different, but that is extremely unlikely, especially since he was a wsb lifter.  They make the idea of isos (loaded I guess in this case), followed by drops or ada, followed by whatever advanced term they use for rebounds or depth jumps sound like brain surgery.  And I am still lost as to whether or not the Dietrich guy even existed, especially since you said Brad was db.

ya good post.. and that KB article you posted, is from way back when KB thought DB was real.. KB no longer thinks DB is "real", from what I recall.. hardly does anyone for that matter. Brad Nuttall interned under Schroeder or something.

what a soap opera......... HEH

Thanks for clearing that up, sorry to bring it up again but I had to know!
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: AlexV on August 23, 2010, 03:06:22 pm
Just wanted to see if anyone else noticed that the forum at Schroeders site was taken down.  Not sure why.  It will be missed as the EVO camp shared so much information!  Too bad I didn't save any of the informative posts.

I guess they took it down cause all the time they spent writing responses interfered with their business.  Adarqui and Alex for the win!  :headbang:
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on August 23, 2010, 07:26:45 pm
Just wanted to see if anyone else noticed that the forum at Schroeders site was taken down.  Not sure why.  It will be missed as the EVO camp shared so much information!  Too bad I didn't save any of the informative posts.

I guess they took it down cause all the time they spent writing responses interfered with their business.  Adarqui and Alex for the win!  :headbang:


that forum seriously angers me, what was the FUCKING point of it?

 :pissed:

if people who "understand the evo sport system" replied, it would be an interesting forum.. regardless of how much i might disagree with certain things.. but instead they didn't answer shit.. we got answers from "interns" and "douchebags" that were in fact not answers at all, more like retarded white noises just ruining any possible conversation.

feh.
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: LanceSTS on August 23, 2010, 09:48:06 pm
Just wanted to see if anyone else noticed that the forum at Schroeders site was taken down.  Not sure why.  It will be missed as the EVO camp shared so much information!  Too bad I didn't save any of the informative posts.

I guess they took it down cause all the time they spent writing responses interfered with their business.  Adarqui and Alex for the win!  :headbang:


Yes, I just joined that stupid forum in hopes to prod Schroeder into talking about how he doesnt have any knowledge past iso extremes and that anyone could teach his system, in hopes that he would give up some more of his training techniques.  Then when I log in, THERE IS NO FUCKING FORUM.  So I did the next best thing and sent him emails along the same lines. 
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on September 08, 2010, 01:47:32 pm
at least he finally provided some videos on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AlAq10Dz8A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x_rtW4w5bY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjPtJEWeRxc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGFDUqHS798

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLUquVSqpH8

i wanna see 5min though :D
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: LanceSTS on September 08, 2010, 02:49:30 pm
wow, Ive sent him a couple of emails about how alot of coaches used to view him as innovative and someone with valuable knowledge and how is viewed currently.  Maybe everyone getting on his case has changed his secret bullshit attitude and he will start to be more forthcoming with real info.   But what will most likely happen is all the idiots believing in the magical powers of ONLY iso extremes will now have some videos to go on, and it will spur a whole new wave of iso extreme only experiments which will fail miserably.  I need to get some pop corn and big red and go to the wgf forum so I can get some good entertainment when those guys see this and start it up again lol.
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: nba8340 on September 08, 2010, 09:55:58 pm
who's channel is that with all the videos from shroeder?
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on September 08, 2010, 11:34:37 pm
who's channel is that with all the videos from shroeder?

the official arp wave channel, denis thompson and jay schroeder's company/facility.
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on September 08, 2010, 11:35:25 pm
wow, Ive sent him a couple of emails about how alot of coaches used to view him as innovative and someone with valuable knowledge and how is viewed currently.  Maybe everyone getting on his case has changed his secret bullshit attitude and he will start to be more forthcoming with real info.   But what will most likely happen is all the idiots believing in the magical powers of ONLY iso extremes will now have some videos to go on, and it will spur a whole new wave of iso extreme only experiments which will fail miserably.  I need to get some pop corn and big red and go to the wgf forum so I can get some good entertainment when those guys see this and start it up again lol.

there hasn't been much talk at all on WGF in weeks, the entertainment is gone@!!@$
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: AlexV on September 09, 2010, 03:08:32 pm


there hasn't been much talk at all on WGF in weeks, the entertainment is gone@!!@$

Good Find Andrew

CK was not real happy with the fact that the only discussion was about iso extreemmeess.  So he doesn;t post much anymore.

The DB Hammer forum has been taken over by teenagers.

Oh and if the biggest problem you (directed at anyone RJ's book offends)  have in your life is that RJ wrote a book then you must have an amazing life.  Some of us have REAL problems
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on September 09, 2010, 04:25:55 pm


there hasn't been much talk at all on WGF in weeks, the entertainment is gone@!!@$

Good Find Andrew

CK was not real happy with the fact that the only discussion was about iso extreemmeess.  So he doesn;t post much anymore.

ya i got that vibe from CK

Quote
The DB Hammer forum has been taken over by teenagers.

Oh and if the biggest problem you (directed at anyone RJ's book offends)  have in your life is that RJ wrote a book then you must have an amazing life.  Some of us have REAL problems

his book doesn't offend me.

pc
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: AlexV on September 09, 2010, 05:23:53 pm
It wasnt directed at you ;)

Anyways I decided to stop lifting weights and start doing rebound movements with a dollar bill.  Will that get me to my strength and power goals?  What do you think?  NFL here I come!!!
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: AlexV on September 09, 2010, 05:25:14 pm
Oh a folded dollar bill, not an unfolded one.
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: steven-miller on September 09, 2010, 05:36:38 pm

Oh and if the biggest problem you (directed at anyone RJ's book offends)  have in your life is that RJ wrote a book then you must have an amazing life.  Some of us have REAL problems

Hey Alex!

RJ wrote a book? Another one or are you talking about his first one? And who would be offended by that?
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: AlexV on September 09, 2010, 06:30:00 pm
no it is the original book.  a bunch of people got their panties in a bunch cause RJ hasn't ever coached anyone.  IIRC some called him a scammer, etc...

Of course we know RJ is a stand up guy

The experience is a legitimate criticism BUT no one ever argued the theory and science behind the book.  :o
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on September 09, 2010, 06:43:30 pm
no it is the original book.  a bunch of people got their panties in a bunch cause RJ hasn't ever coached anyone.  IIRC some called him a scammer, etc...

Of course we know RJ is a stand up guy

The experience is a legitimate criticism BUT no one ever argued the theory and science behind the book.  :o

Yup, "Davan" really dislikes RJ.

edit: I guess Davan's beef is how RJ approached 100m training, and how he "professed" his training to others, then switch up his mindsets pretty hardcore, while "quitting" sprinting, in the end never really realizing his full potential. Davan wanted RJ to follow simple CF principles, which probably would have worked better. So that, and a lack of experience with training other people, hit a nerve with that guy.

pc
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: AlexV on September 10, 2010, 12:23:05 am
no it is the original book.  a bunch of people got their panties in a bunch cause RJ hasn't ever coached anyone.  IIRC some called him a scammer, etc...

Of course we know RJ is a stand up guy

The experience is a legitimate criticism BUT no one ever argued the theory and science behind the book.  :o

Yup, "Davan" really dislikes RJ.

edit: I guess Davan's beef is how RJ approached 100m training, and how he "professed" his training to others, then switch up his mindsets pretty hardcore, while "quitting" sprinting, in the end never really realizing his full potential. Davan wanted RJ to follow simple CF principles, which probably would have worked better. So that, and a lack of experience with training other people, hit a nerve with that guy.

pc

So this is what Davan posts to me

Are you mad that you aren't making money on your crappy vertical jump ebook? Kill yourself fgt.

All I can say is that John Grossman posted a kid gained 14" on his vert following the program.  I don;t know john, don't email him, never pmed him.  Unsolicited testimonial.  From a  "crappy" book.

And to kill myself.  

Right.

Very mature

We all know davan loves CF.  My point is you don't have to be a dick when you disagree with someone.
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on September 10, 2010, 04:40:56 pm
no it is the original book.  a bunch of people got their panties in a bunch cause RJ hasn't ever coached anyone.  IIRC some called him a scammer, etc...

Of course we know RJ is a stand up guy

The experience is a legitimate criticism BUT no one ever argued the theory and science behind the book.  :o

Yup, "Davan" really dislikes RJ.

edit: I guess Davan's beef is how RJ approached 100m training, and how he "professed" his training to others, then switch up his mindsets pretty hardcore, while "quitting" sprinting, in the end never really realizing his full potential. Davan wanted RJ to follow simple CF principles, which probably would have worked better. So that, and a lack of experience with training other people, hit a nerve with that guy.

pc

So this is what Davan posts to me

Are you mad that you aren't making money on your crappy vertical jump ebook? Kill yourself fgt.

All I can say is that John Grossman posted a kid gained 14" on his vert following the program.  I don;t know john, don't email him, never pmed him.  Unsolicited testimonial.  From a  "crappy" book.

And to kill myself.  

Right.

Very mature

We all know davan loves CF.  My point is you don't have to be a dick when you disagree with someone.

that is fucked up..
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: dmarrone39 on November 13, 2010, 09:34:08 am
lo, just stirring the pot...

http://vimeo.com/5117175
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: bball2020 on November 13, 2010, 01:36:23 pm
that hamstring GHR thing was amazing though..
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on November 13, 2010, 03:10:19 pm
lo, just stirring the pot...

http://vimeo.com/5117175

ya that's a great video, before schroeder was only about iso extremes.. then he just flipped, nutjob status.
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on November 17, 2010, 08:55:24 pm
(http://i54.tinypic.com/4l1s45.png)
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: CoachAnderson on December 21, 2010, 05:14:44 pm
While there is more than enough trash talking on Schroeder here, I am a Schroeder athlete.  Even better I have an ARP machine.  Shoot me any questions you may have about it.  I am not here to write programs for everyone, general questions or science based only please.
Thanks, Coach
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on December 21, 2010, 05:33:07 pm
While there is more than enough trash talking on Schroeder here, I am a Schroeder athlete.  Even better I have an ARP machine.  Shoot me any questions you may have about it.  I am not here to write programs for everyone, general questions or science based only please.
Thanks, Coach

Welcome aboard, but it's not really "trash talking". Trash talking is what schroeder did in his "most shocking interview", we are simply restating his "trash claims" and then poking fun at them etc. If Schroeder did not make such insane claims and become obsessed with extreme isometrics, then we wouldn't have any problem with him. Hell, I've learned some things from Schroeder, but there's more bad than good imo.

What are your credentials, website, stats, education, etc? Where do you train your athletes? What kind of progress did you make under Schroeder's coaching? I doubt anyone is going to ask you for programs, no offense, we for the most part stick to the simple effective methods, those of Verkhoshansky, Zatsiorsky, etc.

Peace.
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: Raptor on December 21, 2010, 06:03:31 pm
Don't give him ammo and spell Zatsiorsky's name correctly ;D
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on December 21, 2010, 06:05:32 pm
Don't give him ammo and spell Zatsiorsky's name correctly ;D

ya that was a true typo, i know how to spell that shit... lol
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: CoachAnderson on December 21, 2010, 07:03:33 pm
Well see, I'm not a true Jay junky.

My story sorry its long...

Played Collegiate Volleyball..graduated, got bored and became a competitive bodybuilder.  (Short lived) After my 2nd competition my knee began to hurt...the infamous "jumper's knee".  I was taking 1200 mg ibuprofen before playing volleyball, then it was just to much and had to stop playing.  Couldn't squat, got up off the floor with one leg, couldn't walk down stairs...etc.

I went to Jay for the ARP rehab uses so I could play again.  Literally 2 weeks later I was pain free.  Obviously after being so excited to be able to walk and play again, I became a semi-believer.  I did his program for about 3 months.  6 months later, the pain came back.  I didn't have $800 more dollars to give him for the ARP, so I toughed it out and went to find the ARP on the "black market".  6-9 Months after that I had my own ARP.  I found 2 other "hot spots" as they like to call them, I fixed them and bam I've been pain free for over a year, playing volleyball 3-5 times a week for 2-3 hours. (yep, I AM a volleyball junky)

Here is what I can tell you about his program.  It, in my opinion, is the fastest way to break old habits and prepare the body for new adaptations.  Basically by balancing out the musculature.  And secondly, after taking a break from ISO extremes, going back to them for literally 1 day make your body function so much better in terms of movement and activation.

I'll try and help the best I can. 





Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on December 21, 2010, 07:17:58 pm
Well see, I'm not a true Jay junky.

My story sorry its long...

Played Collegiate Volleyball..graduated, got bored and became a competitive bodybuilder.  (Short lived) After my 2nd competition my knee began to hurt...the infamous "jumper's knee".  I was taking 1200 mg ibuprofen before playing volleyball, then it was just to much and had to stop playing.  Couldn't squat, got up off the floor with one leg, couldn't walk down stairs...etc.

I went to Jay for the ARP rehab uses so I could play again.  Literally 2 weeks later I was pain free.  Obviously after being so excited to be able to walk and play again, I became a semi-believer.  I did his program for about 3 months.  6 months later, the pain came back.  I didn't have $800 more dollars to give him for the ARP, so I toughed it out and went to find the ARP on the "black market".  6-9 Months after that I had my own ARP.  I found 2 other "hot spots" as they like to call them, I fixed them and bam I've been pain free for over a year, playing volleyball 3-5 times a week for 2-3 hours. (yep, I AM a volleyball junky)

Here is what I can tell you about his program.  It, in my opinion, is the fastest way to break old habits and prepare the body for new adaptations.  Basically by balancing out the musculature.  And secondly, after taking a break from ISO extremes, going back to them for literally 1 day make your body function so much better in terms of movement and activation.

I'll try and help the best I can. 

Glad the ARP & Jay's programs helped you so much. I am more along the lines of Alex V's thinking on variations of jay's isos, they can be a great postural correction/activation tool, but to use them alone or with only an ARP does not provide enough of a stimulus to make serious gains in strength, rate of force production, and hypertrophy, for example.

Do you have a name? None of us will be able to condone any info you provide on this forum or take you seriously, if you are not able and willing to provide us with your name, as you call yourself a Coach, that should not be a problem. Your site makes no mention of your name either.

My point above is, we (many members of this forum) have run into proponents of ARP & Jay, most ALL of which do not reveal their true identity or legit credentials. I hope this is not the case with you, but if it is, it will be hard to take any information you provide seriously, as their are MANY shady Jay supporters (under his guidance or on their own) on the internet.

Hope you understand where i'm coming from.

Peace.
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: CoachAnderson on December 22, 2010, 03:30:26 pm
So Jay likes to closely guard his secrets.  I have a feeling he has certain things written down that he doesn't say.  Or in other words, the reasons why he believes in his own program, he doesn't tell anyone because he is scared of losing all his clients to other people that are more rational.

I attached a diagram of one of many of my hypothesis that he bases his theories off of....

Essentially the first two peaks show basic muscle contractions the next is what I think Jay is going for.  The physiological theory that multiple combined action potentials induce a stronger contraction.  There is much more to this than a single graph can dictate, but I thought it would give an example.

So an iso extreme is really just the holding of contraction for a long time.  He must believe he can elicit this effect. 

If it were possible to elicit a stronger muscle contraction, then a stronger muscle contraction would produce a higher jump, bigger bench, etc.

Now to another interesting part.  The whole fatigue thing.  He is crazy about being able to do Max bench reps over and over.  I'm not 100% sure of why he is so obsessed, but in a football game I guess it could help.  Anyway, a study done by Johnson and Koraen showed the CO2 consumption of a static contraction being 10,000 times more than that of typical postural support.  In an iso, it is essentially a static contraction.

When I have time I'll post on how to achieve the maximum velocity of contraction.  Max velocity combined with max strength contraction should elicit pretty good results.

What I think is that Jay is truly a geek.  He is trying to apply physiological information we have had for a long time. While I cant say that I am a pure fan.  I do give him props for trying something new, rather than rewriting a squat and bench program.

I will give my name in IMs but since I previously stated I have a "black market" ARP, I can't very well disclose it to the world.

 



Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on December 23, 2010, 11:35:35 pm
So Jay likes to closely guard his secrets.  I have a feeling he has certain things written down that he doesn't say.  Or in other words, the reasons why he believes in his own program, he doesn't tell anyone because he is scared of losing all his clients to other people that are more rational.

That makes no sense but ok... How many archulettas has Jay put out? He's trained some impressive athletes, but if his system worked the way he promoted it, he'd be a pro-maker. We'd see some pretty insane transformations attributed to Schroeder.. I havn't seen many, have you? If so, could you list them/link them?



Quote
I attached a diagram of one of many of my hypothesis that he bases his theories off of....

Essentially the first two peaks show basic muscle contractions the next is what I think Jay is going for.  The physiological theory that multiple combined action potentials induce a stronger contraction.  There is much more to this than a single graph can dictate, but I thought it would give an example.

So an iso extreme is really just the holding of contraction for a long time.  He must believe he can elicit this effect. 

holding an iso for a very long time results in a fused tetanus contraction? how? These contractions are submax, you can "pull yourself into position as hard as you want", but it's going to be a series of smaller contractions, it isn't anywhere near as maximal as he claims.



Quote
If it were possible to elicit a stronger muscle contraction, then a stronger muscle contraction would produce a higher jump, bigger bench, etc.

Now to another interesting part.  The whole fatigue thing.  He is crazy about being able to do Max bench reps over and over.  I'm not 100% sure of why he is so obsessed, but in a football game I guess it could help.  Anyway, a study done by Johnson and Koraen showed the CO2 consumption of a static contraction being 10,000 times more than that of typical postural support.  In an iso, it is essentially a static contraction.

regardless of Co2 consumption and all of that stuff, being able to repeat "maxes" in a session with short rest is an indicator of great work capacity, that is why he cares.. If you can perform maximally for 10 singles, 20 singles, or 30 singles, you're looking at direct transfer to the field, as well as just being able to progress more in the weight room. If your CNS "dies" after a few singles with 95-100% training max (no psycheup), how can you expect to perform maximally on the field for any considerable duration? That's what he's getting at here... a maximal strength effort method (MSEM) with MORE volume and SHORTER rest, to enhance overall work capacity and on-field performance.




Quote
When I have time I'll post on how to achieve the maximum velocity of contraction.  Max velocity combined with max strength contraction should elicit pretty good results.

I know how, run sprints.... I don't care what anyone says, "maximal velocity of contraction" will not happen in an ISO EXTREME.



Quote
What I think is that Jay is truly a geek.  He is trying to apply physiological information we have had for a long time. While I cant say that I am a pure fan.  I do give him props for trying something new, rather than rewriting a squat and bench program.

Well, his old ideology of training (clusters of max bench reps, holds, drop-catch lifts, high volume high frequency training) is great.. his ISO EXTREME + ARP ideology is trash.. Rewriting the ENTIRE s&c "bible" in favor of some unweighted isos & an ARP is beyond insane to me, it's not about "trying something new", it's about making solid-proven-effective methods MORE effective and applying them correctly to your athletes.....



Quote
I will give my name in IMs but since I previously stated I have a "black market" ARP, I can't very well disclose it to the world.

oh ok.. I just got it from whois'n your site, was just seeing if you would post it, the "anonymity" of Schroeder supports always bugs me, not saying you are trying to be anonymous for shady reasons, it's just I see it alot among Schroeder supporters..

peace
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: CoachAnderson on December 24, 2010, 07:23:59 am
So Jay likes to closely guard his secrets.  I have a feeling he has certain things written down that he doesn't say.  Or in other words, the reasons why he believes in his own program, he doesn't tell anyone because he is scared of losing all his clients to other people that are more rational.

That makes no sense but ok... How many archulettas has Jay put out? He's trained some impressive athletes, but if his system worked the way he promoted it, he'd be a pro-maker. We'd see some pretty insane transformations attributed to Schroeder.. I havn't seen many, have you? If so, could you list them/link them?



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I attached a diagram of one of many of my hypothesis that he bases his theories off of....

Essentially the first two peaks show basic muscle contractions the next is what I think Jay is going for.  The physiological theory that multiple combined action potentials induce a stronger contraction.  There is much more to this than a single graph can dictate, but I thought it would give an example.

So an iso extreme is really just the holding of contraction for a long time.  He must believe he can elicit this effect. 

holding an iso for a very long time results in a fused tetanus contraction? how? These contractions are submax, you can "pull yourself into position as hard as you want", but it's going to be a series of smaller contractions, it isn't anywhere near as maximal as he claims.



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If it were possible to elicit a stronger muscle contraction, then a stronger muscle contraction would produce a higher jump, bigger bench, etc.

Now to another interesting part.  The whole fatigue thing.  He is crazy about being able to do Max bench reps over and over.  I'm not 100% sure of why he is so obsessed, but in a football game I guess it could help.  Anyway, a study done by Johnson and Koraen showed the CO2 consumption of a static contraction being 10,000 times more than that of typical postural support.  In an iso, it is essentially a static contraction.

regardless of Co2 consumption and all of that stuff, being able to repeat "maxes" in a session with short rest is an indicator of great work capacity, that is why he cares.. If you can perform maximally for 10 singles, 20 singles, or 30 singles, you're looking at direct transfer to the field, as well as just being able to progress more in the weight room. If your CNS "dies" after a few singles with 95-100% training max (no psycheup), how can you expect to perform maximally on the field for any considerable duration? That's what he's getting at here... a maximal strength effort method (MSEM) with MORE volume and SHORTER rest, to enhance overall work capacity and on-field performance.




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When I have time I'll post on how to achieve the maximum velocity of contraction.  Max velocity combined with max strength contraction should elicit pretty good results.

I know how, run sprints.... I don't care what anyone says, "maximal velocity of contraction" will not happen in an ISO EXTREME.



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What I think is that Jay is truly a geek.  He is trying to apply physiological information we have had for a long time. While I cant say that I am a pure fan.  I do give him props for trying something new, rather than rewriting a squat and bench program.

Well, his old ideology of training (clusters of max bench reps, holds, drop-catch lifts, high volume high frequency training) is great.. his ISO EXTREME + ARP ideology is trash.. Rewriting the ENTIRE s&c "bible" in favor of some unweighted isos & an ARP is beyond insane to me, it's not about "trying something new", it's about making solid-proven-effective methods MORE effective and applying them correctly to your athletes.....



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I will give my name in IMs but since I previously stated I have a "black market" ARP, I can't very well disclose it to the world.

oh ok.. I just got it from whois'n your site, was just seeing if you would post it, the "anonymity" of Schroeder supports always bugs me, not saying you are trying to be anonymous for shady reasons, it's just I see it alot among Schroeder supporters..

peace

I'm sure its a discussion elsewhere on this board.  But the comment with regards to athletes he has trained.  I'm not saying he is a "pro producer", but who is?  There is a huge debate over cause vs correlation.  Ex:  Does Parisi Speed School produce the top athletes with the top numbers or do the top athletes go to Parisi, then put out top numbers because they were already elite?  Next is, what if Jay made someone really strong and adaptive, what would the result be on the field.  What if YOU trained someone to increase their squat 200lbs, bench 100lbs, increased their 40 time etc.,  What results would we then see on the field?  That whole subject leads to the acquisition of skill and skill transfer, which may be somewhere else on here too.  If not, I'll add it later.

I won't go into the tetanic contractions this very second, but a large part of the research comes from pregnant women.  Here is a link http://cwx.prenhall.com/bookbind/pubbooks/martinidemo/chapter10/medialib/CH10/html/ch10_5_1.html

The co2 concept is more than just maximal effort.  Its a matter of making your body cycle through energy systems, including the metabolism of lactic acid, efficiently.  If you sprint then stop, your body is able to recover via O2 systems and other cycles available.  The iso holds restrict a lot of blood flow leaving the local tissue with limited nutrients and limited availability of nutrient replenishment.   Actually something you rarely see on any training forum in the USA is the idea of fasting for performance.  If you make sure you eat right for say a week prior to fasting, the results are pretty impressive in performance.  Not more than 10% but still significant if you need a 1 time performance.

Maximum velocity of contraction that I am referring to, does not refer to how fast you lift the weight, so sprinting doesn't address the same issue.  Check out this link...http://www.unmc.edu/physiology/Mann/mann14.html  If you look at the paragraph titled "force-velocity relation" you will understand what I was speaking of.  It even mentions "lengthening" the muscle, one of Jay's huge words he uses.  WAIT!! So I just made a new connection, the POV SPort jay is coming out with says on the website "Force Velocity"  In the article, it mentions that the best way to lengthen the muscle would be with Zero load. I guess that's where the ARP comes in.  (I apologize if this is all to scientific.  I'm a biologist by education, so it makes sense to me at that level)

I hope people are more than just dismissing all of this.  I am here trying to give insight based on my knowledge and experience with both the machine and the program.  Even if 75% of what  J teaches is wrong, maybe there is a scientific 25% that makes sense.

Good luck training!




Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: Jean-Paul on April 25, 2011, 06:25:40 pm
Hi everyone. New poster here... Just wanted to chime in on this topic.

First, my name is Jean-Paul (hence the creative user name). I'm a trainer based out of Arkansas. I have been working as a trainer since 1987, although the first ten years I were practically a waste since I cut my teeth in bodybuilding gyms and only came around to the whole performance enhancement side of things in the last 15 years.

I read most of this thread and it is obvious that JS is considered to be a nut job at the very least.

I recently spent the better part of a week training with him and found him to be quite intelligent and passionate. Crazy in a good way. With smart, passionate people it is pretty common that those go along with a healthy ego. I don't know about the validity of all of his claims with his athletes so I won't try to defend him on that.

In my personal background I have worked with a lot of injured athletes (lately mostly golfers as I work at an exclusive private golf course as their "golf performance and functional training specialist"), and I use many different methods to help my clients keep hitting straight and far, such as ART, AIS, postural correction, jumpstretch bands, KBs, yada yada, ad nauseum.

My only issue was that I had no one to work on me, and I have had chronic shoulder/neck pain since the early 90's (4 surgeries on my shoulders). My right shoulder has been so extremely painful for so long that I honestly forgot what it felt like to not feel it. I have done dozens of cortisone shots over the years, which never really fixed the problem but masked it for a few weeks.

Long story short, I did a grand total of 3 "search and destroy" sessions with the ARPwave POV and I feel fantastic. At the extreme ranges I still feel a slight twinge, but I don't feel that constant shooting pain, I have stopped taking Naproxyn (which I popped like candy), and I can actually reach straight over head. I even went out an played some catch with one of my sons who's in baseball over the weekend, which is something I haven't done in a long time.

Jay did go a little bit into iso-extremes, but not a whole lot. He talked about "re-educating" the muscles to function properly by loading them heavily instead of backing off and training light or avoiding using an injured bodypart. This statement is very brief but he went into it quite a bit. I'm not saying this to start a new topic, rather just to say that he isn't exclusively an iso-extreme guy.

I have worked on two other clients with the ARP system since I did my own treatment, and the results were pretty amazing with regards to pain relief. One of my clients was in so much pain he couldn't even bend forward to put on his own socks, and he had a golf tournament that he was supposed to be in over the next two days. I would have been satisfied just to get him out of such extreme back pain, but I found out a couple days later than he not only was able to play, he actually won first place.

These are merely anecdotes. I have not read studies on the success rate of this technology, but having been in such desperate pain I was willing to try anything. All I have to go on here is my own experience, so take it for what it's worth. Like him or not for whatever reason, his product is most definitely NOT bullshit.

That's all... Thanks for letting me include my two pesos. Great forum. I'll have to add it to my list to check on a regular basis.

Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: swans05 on October 25, 2011, 12:30:38 am
does anyone have a copy of that audio interview he's (in)famous for?
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: LanceSTS on October 25, 2011, 01:02:53 am
does anyone have a copy of that audio interview he's (in)famous for?

http://www.powerworkshop.org/shock.html
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: swans05 on October 25, 2011, 09:21:56 pm
thanks lance, i came across that page while searching for it but i get this when i go to play it:

"An audio codec is needed to play this file. To determine if this codec is available to download from the Web, click Web Help"

now apart from basic typing my computer skills are limited so any ideas what this is all about?
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: adarqui on October 25, 2011, 09:34:30 pm
thanks lance, i came across that page while searching for it but i get this when i go to play it:

"An audio codec is needed to play this file. To determine if this codec is available to download from the Web, click Web Help"

now apart from basic typing my computer skills are limited so any ideas what this is all about?

i would upload them but, jay schroeder would definitely sue me.. lmao

i tested this to make sure it works for you.. do this:

1. download the mp3's from lance's url
2. goto http://media.io ...
3. select upload, select the file, click 'mp3', then use that best quality (extreme)..
4. download the file.. it'll now be a .mp3, which will work on any system.

do that for each file, it works..

i was curious as to why you couldn't play the audio files.. typical microsoft b.s., .wma files... odd though, those used to be .mp3 files, someone converted them to wma.

peace
Title: Re: Jay Schroeder
Post by: AlexV on November 01, 2012, 04:10:56 pm
FWIW I think that the ARP company bought therastim so you can no longer get a therastim you have to buy an ARP for the 20k or whatever.  I may be wrong but I can no longer find the physiodynamics inc (therastim mfr) website.