Author Topic: Kelly Baggett's use of Steroids, Pro Hormones, Hormones, and Other Drugs  (Read 28654 times)

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adarqui

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Quote from: adarqui
If PED's were allowed in sport

You say this like a absolute force like god would come in and say "they are not allowed". And that's it, you can't do anything about it. It's still PEOPLE that decided they shouldn't be allowed. The question is - who are these people that they feel they're entitled to limit human performance to the kind of performance without PEDs? Is that more ethical than to use PEDs? Why?

These are complex questions that I don't feel are easy to answer.

It would be cool to be able to perform in a drug free and drug-not-so-free athletic world. Like, heck, if I want to give my 100%+ performance, I should be allowed the free will to choose to use drugs.

The problem is - young people might be forced by their coaches to use the drugs and therefore destroy their liver etc without them really making that decision. That's the real problem.

But if you keep PEDs banned, they become an even more "temptation" since the forbidden fruit is always sweeter.

????????????????????????????????????????????????

no one is limiting human performance, if you want to create a drug free track and field circuit you're free to do so... the same goes for any other sport.

if you want to take PED's by yourself and just get huge/fast/jump high you're free to do so.

no one is limiting anything.

lamp

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Quote from: adarqui
If PED's were allowed in sport

You say this like a absolute force like god would come in and say "they are not allowed". And that's it, you can't do anything about it. It's still PEOPLE that decided they shouldn't be allowed. The question is - who are these people that they feel they're entitled to limit human performance to the kind of performance without PEDs? Is that more ethical than to use PEDs? Why?

These are complex questions that I don't feel are easy to answer.

It would be cool to be able to perform in a drug free and drug-not-so-free athletic world. Like, heck, if I want to give my 100%+ performance, I should be allowed the free will to choose to use drugs.

The problem is - young people might be forced by their coaches to use the drugs and therefore destroy their liver etc without them really making that decision. That's the real problem.

But if you keep PEDs banned, they become an even more "temptation" since the forbidden fruit is always sweeter.

????????????????????????????????????????????????

no one is limiting human performance, if you want to create a drug free track and field circuit you're free to do so... the same goes for any other sport.

if you want to take PED's by yourself and just get huge/fast/jump high you're free to do so.

no one is limiting anything.


false,

it is a federal offense in the us and many other countries to have and use steroids, hgh, and other peds

adarqui

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Quote from: adarqui
If PED's were allowed in sport

You say this like a absolute force like god would come in and say "they are not allowed". And that's it, you can't do anything about it. It's still PEOPLE that decided they shouldn't be allowed. The question is - who are these people that they feel they're entitled to limit human performance to the kind of performance without PEDs? Is that more ethical than to use PEDs? Why?

These are complex questions that I don't feel are easy to answer.

It would be cool to be able to perform in a drug free and drug-not-so-free athletic world. Like, heck, if I want to give my 100%+ performance, I should be allowed the free will to choose to use drugs.

The problem is - young people might be forced by their coaches to use the drugs and therefore destroy their liver etc without them really making that decision. That's the real problem.

But if you keep PEDs banned, they become an even more "temptation" since the forbidden fruit is always sweeter.

????????????????????????????????????????????????

no one is limiting human performance, if you want to create a drug free track and field circuit you're free to do so... the same goes for any other sport.

if you want to take PED's by yourself and just get huge/fast/jump high you're free to do so.

no one is limiting anything.


false,

it is a federal offense in the us and many other countries to have and use steroids, hgh, and other peds

that's not stopping anybody from doing them.. that's not stopping people from smoking weed..

i agree that people should be allowed to put whatever they want in their bodies for recreational use, weed, crack, meth, roids, whatever.. but if you're competing in an organization you have to follow the guidelines of that organization, and most professional sports circuits/leagues/whatever test for a variety of illicit drugs/PED's/whatever..

no one is preventing you from utilizing roids or smoking weed, regardless of law those substances are very easy to get and most people have no problem with the law.

it's illegal to kill someone but that's not stopping any of us from doing it now is it? what about 'violating our free will'? according to raptor, our free will allows us to kill someone................. and in this world, that free will is not violated, we are free to kill someone but their are consequences to that action.. there is no mind control apparatus in place that prevents us from pulling the trigger except for the consequences, but nothing is stopping us from actually pulling that trigger..

the same goes for roids/weed etc.. their are powerlifting/bodybuilding etc organizations that DO NOT TEST for illicit/ped substances, so, no one is stopping you from utilizing those substances in those organizations.. now everyone who has a problem with organizations who have banned substances lists should all group together and start their own federations and stop whining about it... "Non-tested track & field" NTTF, bam go do it.

dirksilver

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i agree...if you're in a legue which bans certain subtances and you agree not you use them then you shouldn't...a contract is a contract...you violate it you're fined/banned whatever...cheating is cheating

adarqui

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i agree...if you're in a legue which bans certain subtances and you agree not you use them then you shouldn't...a contract is a contract...you violate it you're fined/banned whatever...cheating is cheating

right, i agree with your agreement of my statement.

for example, if we were in a Vegetarian Basketball League ("The Curry League"), which bans the use of eating animal proteins, and we violated that rule, we'd face the consequences. No one is stopping us from quitting the league and playing basketball by ourselves as we indulge ourselves in various animal fleshes. We are also free to start our own league which does not ban people from eating animal products, or we could find a league with that philosophy already in existence. That's PED's in a nutshell. Comply by the rules and there isn't a problem, no ethics have been violated.

So again, all of the people who are so vocal about allowing PED's in sport should start non-tested federations which would probably become more popular (just like pro bodybuilding trumps natural bodybuilding competitions, people want to see freaks), plus you'd make alot of money. So, if anyone on here decides to go that route just break me off a small piece of spending money for my generous ideas.

dirksilver

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my only issue is with the government having a blanket ban and putting people in prison for using roids...i hate the nanny state with a passion


lamp

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Quote from: adarqui
If PED's were allowed in sport

You say this like a absolute force like god would come in and say "they are not allowed". And that's it, you can't do anything about it. It's still PEOPLE that decided they shouldn't be allowed. The question is - who are these people that they feel they're entitled to limit human performance to the kind of performance without PEDs? Is that more ethical than to use PEDs? Why?

These are complex questions that I don't feel are easy to answer.

It would be cool to be able to perform in a drug free and drug-not-so-free athletic world. Like, heck, if I want to give my 100%+ performance, I should be allowed the free will to choose to use drugs.

The problem is - young people might be forced by their coaches to use the drugs and therefore destroy their liver etc without them really making that decision. That's the real problem.

But if you keep PEDs banned, they become an even more "temptation" since the forbidden fruit is always sweeter.

????????????????????????????????????????????????

no one is limiting human performance, if you want to create a drug free track and field circuit you're free to do so... the same goes for any other sport.

if you want to take PED's by yourself and just get huge/fast/jump high you're free to do so.

no one is limiting anything.


false,

it is a federal offense in the us and many other countries to have and use steroids, hgh, and other peds

that's not stopping anybody from doing them.. that's not stopping people from smoking weed..

i agree that people should be allowed to put whatever they want in their bodies for recreational use, weed, crack, meth, roids, whatever.. but if you're competing in an organization you have to follow the guidelines of that organization, and most professional sports circuits/leagues/whatever test for a variety of illicit drugs/PED's/whatever..

no one is preventing you from utilizing roids or smoking weed, regardless of law those substances are very easy to get and most people have no problem with the law.

it's illegal to kill someone but that's not stopping any of us from doing it now is it? what about 'violating our free will'? according to raptor, our free will allows us to kill someone................. and in this world, that free will is not violated, we are free to kill someone but their are consequences to that action.. there is no mind control apparatus in place that prevents us from pulling the trigger except for the consequences, but nothing is stopping us from actually pulling that trigger..

the same goes for roids/weed etc.. their are powerlifting/bodybuilding etc organizations that DO NOT TEST for illicit/ped substances, so, no one is stopping you from utilizing those substances in those organizations.. now everyone who has a problem with organizations who have banned substances lists should all group together and start their own federations and stop whining about it... "Non-tested track & field" NTTF, bam go do it.


I understand what you are saying but if everyone else is using these substances and the rule is a farce, how is it immoral/wrong to break the rule?

People have been doping for the last almost 100 years...they only started testing relatively recently.  That means there was a period where they weren't being tested and yet free to compete and records were set then.

Records and performances kept going up once they started testing so either two things happened-- there was a giant jump in athletic talent and training (which happened exactly when they started testing), or people kept doping....


the answer is obvious... everyone in strength/power sports dopes... EVERYONE

lamp

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i agree...if you're in a legue which bans certain subtances and you agree not you use them then you shouldn't...a contract is a contract...you violate it you're fined/banned whatever...cheating is cheating

right, i agree with your agreement of my statement.

for example, if we were in a Vegetarian Basketball League ("The Curry League"), which bans the use of eating animal proteins, and we violated that rule, we'd face the consequences. No one is stopping us from quitting the league and playing basketball by ourselves as we indulge ourselves in various animal fleshes. We are also free to start our own league which does not ban people from eating animal products, or we could find a league with that philosophy already in existence. That's PED's in a nutshell. Comply by the rules and there isn't a problem, no ethics have been violated.

So again, all of the people who are so vocal about allowing PED's in sport should start non-tested federations which would probably become more popular (just like pro bodybuilding trumps natural bodybuilding competitions, people want to see freaks), plus you'd make alot of money. So, if anyone on here decides to go that route just break me off a small piece of spending money for my generous ideas.

But thats the thing we aren't free...what you talked about with killing someone and the consequences and that analogy represents a very limited type of freedom...

even more limited in this case because you could get away with killing someone, you absolutely would not get away with setting up a PED legal league

TheSituation

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it is a federal offense in the us and many other countries to have and use steroids, hgh, and other peds

That's not the issue here. Everything Kelly used was legal besides the RX Test (I think) and the T3 (although it can be obtained legally for "research purposes")

And No, steroids shouldn't be legal. We don't need 16 year olds injecting themselves. Not only is that dangerous in itself, but even if they do it safely, they can fuck up their endocrine system. And then you have the issue with them not knowing what an AI and and not doing a proper PTC and then they turn into women.

For those who think steroids to be legal, explain to me what an aromatase inhibitor is, name 2 kinds of them, and why you need them in a cycle when you take testosterone. I'll have more questions for you after you answer this one.

Bigger-Stronger-Faster is such a biased documentary. The people who want them legal know what they are doing. They've done research on steroids, proper cycling, etc. Making steroids legal gives any random joe access to them.

« Last Edit: March 08, 2011, 08:12:21 pm by JC »
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I have no problem with PED's.  It is a personal choice.  The sad thing about the PED in sport thing is the asterisk.  Honestly PEDs have been used throughout time.  Athletes used to use strychnine in the olden days.  When juice came out it was used freely in athletics for decades ("breakfast of champions" was a bowl full of dbol at the breakfast table).  

I just searched for some quick stats:

Ben Johnson was 5'10" and weighed any where from 165-200lbs (I believe 176 was what CF reported)
Roger Maris was 6' and weighed 204.

I know different sports but the point is that you cannot tell who juiced based upon their size.  Throw a 180lb BJ in a baseball uniform (pants and long sleeves) and he would be dwarfed by ball players of today and was even small relative to the golden era.

Buster Posey NL ROY is 6'2 and 219
Mickey Mantle wad 5'11" and 195 (This is BJ on the big end of the scale)

Carl Lewis failed 4 drug tests in Seoul.  Not for juice but...  Still cheating! yet America chose to cover up and celebrate his accomplishments.

Not PED's but the Babe didn't play against black people, that had to have inflated his statistics.

So how do we "know" beyond a doubt that the athletes of yesteryear were as clean as we want to believe?

For a while Steroids were not banned in baseball, yet were illegal in the US.  However in other countries they could be bought OTC, giving an edge to the players in placed like the DR (timeframe corresponds to the rise of the carribean latino growth in baseball- I know doesn;t prove use but an interesting trend)

We will never know.

As far as KB goes it is much ado about nothing.
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adarqui

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Quote from: adarqui
If PED's were allowed in sport

You say this like a absolute force like god would come in and say "they are not allowed". And that's it, you can't do anything about it. It's still PEOPLE that decided they shouldn't be allowed. The question is - who are these people that they feel they're entitled to limit human performance to the kind of performance without PEDs? Is that more ethical than to use PEDs? Why?

These are complex questions that I don't feel are easy to answer.

It would be cool to be able to perform in a drug free and drug-not-so-free athletic world. Like, heck, if I want to give my 100%+ performance, I should be allowed the free will to choose to use drugs.

The problem is - young people might be forced by their coaches to use the drugs and therefore destroy their liver etc without them really making that decision. That's the real problem.

But if you keep PEDs banned, they become an even more "temptation" since the forbidden fruit is always sweeter.

????????????????????????????????????????????????

no one is limiting human performance, if you want to create a drug free track and field circuit you're free to do so... the same goes for any other sport.

if you want to take PED's by yourself and just get huge/fast/jump high you're free to do so.

no one is limiting anything.


false,

it is a federal offense in the us and many other countries to have and use steroids, hgh, and other peds

that's not stopping anybody from doing them.. that's not stopping people from smoking weed..

i agree that people should be allowed to put whatever they want in their bodies for recreational use, weed, crack, meth, roids, whatever.. but if you're competing in an organization you have to follow the guidelines of that organization, and most professional sports circuits/leagues/whatever test for a variety of illicit drugs/PED's/whatever..

no one is preventing you from utilizing roids or smoking weed, regardless of law those substances are very easy to get and most people have no problem with the law.

it's illegal to kill someone but that's not stopping any of us from doing it now is it? what about 'violating our free will'? according to raptor, our free will allows us to kill someone................. and in this world, that free will is not violated, we are free to kill someone but their are consequences to that action.. there is no mind control apparatus in place that prevents us from pulling the trigger except for the consequences, but nothing is stopping us from actually pulling that trigger..

the same goes for roids/weed etc.. their are powerlifting/bodybuilding etc organizations that DO NOT TEST for illicit/ped substances, so, no one is stopping you from utilizing those substances in those organizations.. now everyone who has a problem with organizations who have banned substances lists should all group together and start their own federations and stop whining about it... "Non-tested track & field" NTTF, bam go do it.


I understand what you are saying but if everyone else is using these substances and the rule is a farce, how is it immoral/wrong to break the rule?

yes it is immoral/wrong to break the rule, if everyone is cheating and the rule says no cheating, then everyone is immoral/wrong.

this issue is far greater than just doping in sport, looking at the economic crisis in usa.. everyone is trying to "get theirs before they die", abusing the system/not thinking about the consequences. bottom line is people who cheat are CHEATERS and are thus pussy ass bitches and should fuck off, i'd rather watch clean 10.2's than roided 9.8's.

stop listening to charlie francis, seriously, when he says "everyone is cheating", he's just justifying his own pathetic cheater actions.




Quote
People have been doping for the last almost 100 years...they only started testing relatively recently.  That means there was a period where they weren't being tested and yet free to compete and records were set then.

Records and performances kept going up once they started testing so either two things happened-- there was a giant jump in athletic talent and training (which happened exactly when they started testing), or people kept doping....

casey combest was on roids? some people are just freaks.. tfb dunkers are on roids? TFB dunkers have more genetic potential than most olympic athletes do, they don't roid, lift, or do anything other than dunk, play basketball, and play xbox.. now imagine that talent existing around the world, getting ahold of those athletes when they are young and having them do track..

not everyone is a cheater.



Quote
the answer is obvious... everyone in strength/power sports dopes... EVERYONE

uh no..

adarqui

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it is a federal offense in the us and many other countries to have and use steroids, hgh, and other peds

And No, steroids shouldn't be legal. We don't need 16 year olds injecting themselves. Not only is that dangerous in itself, but even if they do it safely, they can fuck up their endocrine system. And then you have the issue with them not knowing what an AI and and not doing a proper PTC and then they turn into women.

For those who think steroids to be legal, explain to me what an aromatase inhibitor is, name 2 kinds of them, and why you need them in a cycle when you take testosterone. I'll have more questions for you after you answer this one.

Bigger-Stronger-Faster is such a biased documentary. The people who want them legal know what they are doing. They've done research on steroids, proper cycling, etc. Making steroids legal gives any random joe access to them.

lmao x2.

lamp

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it is a federal offense in the us and many other countries to have and use steroids, hgh, and other peds

That's not the issue here. Everything Kelly used was legal besides the RX Test (I think) and the T3 (although it can be obtained legally for "research purposes")

And No, steroids shouldn't be legal. We don't need 16 year olds injecting themselves. Not only is that dangerous in itself, but even if they do it safely, they can fuck up their endocrine system. And then you have the issue with them not knowing what an AI and and not doing a proper PTC and then they turn into women.

For those who think steroids to be legal, explain to me what an aromatase inhibitor is, name 2 kinds of them, and why you need them in a cycle when you take testosterone. I'll have more questions for you after you answer this one.

Bigger-Stronger-Faster is such a biased documentary. The people who want them legal know what they are doing. They've done research on steroids, proper cycling, etc. Making steroids legal gives any random joe access to them.



Thank you JC for agreeing with a system that FORCES someone else's opinions and morality upon me, the individual.

Who the fuck are you to tell me what I can and cannot put into my body...

secondly, I assume that an aromatase inhibitor prevents or strongly reduces the aromatisation of testosterone to estrogen (which leads to the oft quoted side effect of gynecomastia)...from what I have read it is often recommended that you take them when you're using a cycle...

however, a minimalist cycle done properly should have few if any adverse side effects

bball2020

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Thats the problem adarq, everyone in today's age RATIONALIZE cheating or unethical behavior.  People know that cheating on your wife, cheat in athletics, or stealing money is WRONG just as much as they knew these things in say the 1950's, the only difference is people now constantly make excuses and down play it. Obviously the consequences are devastating on all levels.

dirksilver

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JC if you're position is that it's shouldn't be legal because stupid people will do it or kids will get a hold of it...then my question to you is what SHOULD be legal?

you act as if these people already can't get a hold of it...they can and they do