Author Topic: The GUILT/SCARE you into going/staying vegan thread  (Read 1876 times)

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adarqui

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Re: The GUILT/SCARE you into going/staying vegan thread
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2018, 08:27:51 pm »
+1
Also some extra things I forgot to mention:

Veganism is generally not more expensive.  This is a myth.  In poor countries around the world, MEAT is a luxury.  It takes 18x more land to feed a average meat eater than it does a vegan.  It actually takes up to 2500 gallons of water to produce 1 lb of beef.  I mean, the cheapest foods in the world are vegan such as pasta, rice, beans, other grains/legumes.  Now of course there are expensive vegan stuff such as exotic fruits and veggies, but you can also get the cheaper ones.  Nothing wrong with good ol bananas and lettuce.  Tofu is also pretty cheap.  Now if you want to buy vegan "animal product" substitutes such as vegan meat, it can be more pricey than normal ingredients, but still within the same range as regular animal products.

Now some people think "soy" is bad. Soy contains PHYTOestrogen which has been shown to not affect hormone levels at all.  It is the mammalian estrogen found in dairy that actually affects hormones.  I mean, it does come from a pregnant female (not that this is a scientific reason). 

And just to name a few common misconceptions on the "omnivore or herbivore" debate.  Yes we have canines, but so do virtually every other classified herbivore, in fact the biggest canines in the world are from an herbivore (hippos).  True meat eaters, have canines that can rip into the flesh of an animal, while our pathetic canines cannot.

Our intestinal tract is the same length as other herbivores (9-12x length of our body), while all meat eaters have short ones (3-6x length) which is to empty out the rotting flesh quickly.

All meat eaters pant to cool off while herbivores sweat through their pores. 

We, like other herbivores have jaw that go in all directions especially side to side to grind, while all meat eaters only go up and down.

We also have carb digesting enzymes in our saliva.

We also have weak hydrochloric acid compared to true meat eaters.

Among many others.

Also one big one.  We have zero psychological carnivorous instincts unlike other true meat eaters.  If you put a baby human in a crib with a bunny and a apple, the baby will eat the apple and play with the bunny 100 out of 100 times.  Our empathetic feelings towards videos/pictures of animals in factory farms are feelings that we have had since birth.  Feelings of disinterest or 'hate' towards these animals are all learned behaviors from a flawed culture/society like any other form of discrimination.  No one is born a racist, sexist, or a speciesist.  We are taught against our will at a young age, what animals to ignore and eat, and which animals to adore and pet.

again, great stuff.

this was a good quick read, talks about some of the stuff you mentioned: https://veganbiologist.com/2016/01/04/humans-are-not-herbivores/

Merrick

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Re: The GUILT/SCARE you into going/staying vegan thread
« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2018, 10:48:48 pm »
0

what a great post man. thanks for sharing that.

I plan to check out some of those docs. Earthlings sounds pretty intense, but I imagine it should be. "We" are shielded from the truths of it, which so easily allows us to simply skate through without thinking about what's going on behind the scenes. I often think about what's going on behind the scenes before I order at some random restaurant, which makes me want to order something with less or no animal products. Just always pops in my head. It's at least helped me reduce my intake considerably.

checking next post.

peace!!

Exactly man!  That's why Veganism is growing so fast.  All it takes is for people to see and acknowledge the truth and the conditioning/programming slowly starts eroding. A big obstacle is that most people simply do not want to even acknowledge it, due to a variety of reasons such as social pressures/fitting in with others.  Others simply react negatively due to 'cognitive dissonance' where new evidence and rational/logical reasonings completely go against everything we have always believed and this creates a 'defense mechanism' in the mind.  Everyone's been there, all vegans have at one point, but this just goes to show, truth is more powerful than anything, as it always eventually wins out. 

No amount of cultural programming can prevent us from knowing that when we see a peaceful sentient being suffer for unnecessary reasons, it is wrong.  No amount of conditioning can completely dissolve our inner empathy towards the suffering of all beings.

this was a good quick read, talks about some of the stuff you mentioned: https://veganbiologist.com/2016/01/04/humans-are-not-herbivores/

Interesting read.  There is a lot of conflicting information, regarding the exact science I agree.  That source makes some good points, and as you look in the comment section, there are many who disagree, just as there are also many other credible sources with intelligent claims/evidence to support the herbivore argument.  I am obviously biased, but I do think we are herbivores from what I see, but sure, I may be wrong.  I never claim to be a scientific expert, but one thing everyone at least agrees with is we can be just as fine as vegans (including athletically).

This is why vegans who quit are the ones who did it for dietary reasons.  They were not vegans, they were just "plant based dieters". When looked at as a diet, it is difficult as diet implies restriction.  When looked at as an ethical situation, it is not restriction, but the thing we WANT to do.  No one wants to give up tasty things, but no one wants to conflict harm on others neither, so it's about perspective, and that's why vast majority of vegans are doing it for ethical reasons and do so easily. 

As you mentioned earlier about humans being a wreck.  A lot of anti-vegans want to claim that we have superior intelligence so we have the right to do whatever to them.  Humans are only a wreck in this planet cause a substantial increase in intelligence without an equal increase in empathy/morality/ethics is dangerous.  The Earth is an organism with all the different ecosystems and species doing their parts to keep the whole functioning optimally (just like the organs and cells of a human body), while humans are literally acting like cancer cells (destroying everything in sight, while killing its very host that gives it life).  It is sad, but we can still fix it.

Thanks for being such an open-minded person Andrew. Trust me, I get plenty of people during activism, who walk by screaming "MMMM BACON!" lolll

undoubtable

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Re: The GUILT/SCARE you into going/staying vegan thread
« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2018, 10:33:07 am »
+1
Thank you for your activism Merrick. I knew I'd take the path toward not eating meat and started by removing beef and pork from my diet a year or so ago. I'm now trying to push it further by removing other meat products or at least limiting them.

I'm not sure I'll ever go full vegan, eggs and cheese feel like they're engrained into my identity (culture and tradition) but I'll do by best to limit doing harm.  :strong:
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Merrick

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Re: The GUILT/SCARE you into going/staying vegan thread
« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2018, 11:08:51 pm »
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Thank you for your activism Merrick. I knew I'd take the path toward not eating meat and started by removing beef and pork from my diet a year or so ago. I'm now trying to push it further by removing other meat products or at least limiting them.

I'm not sure I'll ever go full vegan, eggs and cheese feel like they're engrained into my identity (culture and tradition) but I'll do by best to limit doing harm.  :strong:

I appreciate that!  I won't tell you that I want you to eventually go full vegan (I never tell anyone to do this).  I will just tell you this, and whichever path you choose, I accept it.  Everybody says what you said, but the truth is, literally every culture eats tons of meat, as well as what you mentioned, eggs + dairy (cheese).  Every vegan from every culture thought it would be very difficult go full vegan too.

So I will say don't commit to eventually going full vegan.  But ALSO, don't commit to never going full vegan.  Just leave it open.  Maybe you will maybe you won't.  Just leave it open as the unknown/anythings possible.  Thanks for reducing your intake so far and doing your best to limit suffering!

scoobychau

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Re: The GUILT/SCARE you into going/staying vegan thread
« Reply #19 on: February 26, 2018, 11:49:06 pm »
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6TGqKvFPl0

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