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adarqui

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The GUILT/SCARE you into going/staying vegan thread
« on: January 18, 2018, 06:34:17 am »
+3
This thread is for occasionally bad images/videos regarding the meat/animal product industry.

Well, it'd be nice not to have extremely crazy videos in here -> that stuff can be very disturbing.

Here's a more acceptable video (go to the IG and swipe right for the other two videos) perhaps, that does a good job at driving home the point:



Anyway.. I post lots of food with animal protein but, I always feel bad eating it. Eating animal products bothers me. When I cut out whey/dairy etc, the only thing I could think of was -> eat more animal protein. But, now i'm going to cut out animal products and eat more whey (+ normal food). So I guess that means i'm going to try and go back to being lacto-vegan but not drinking milk, just supplementing whey. who knows, it's annoying. Wish I could just eat yams all day and recover properly. bleh.

gukl

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Re: The GUILT/SCARE you into going/staying vegan thread
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2018, 02:54:44 pm »
+4
uh, nice thread.

i've been vegetarian (lacto/ovo) for years now. I think one day i'll make the switch to vegan. I became a vegetarian because I believed animals were sentinent and it was selfish of me to endorse the suffering that meat comes along with AND i figured I could meet all my nutritional needs being veggie easily - which i can. Now the jumpt  veganism is a lot more difficult in terms of organising your nutrition, getting adequate protein, b12, iron etc but its 100% possible. So thus now my laziness (and love of cheese) is more important to me than animal suffering.

also i was so obsessed with eating meat to get my protein a few years back but even if you couldn't meet your 'protein requirements' for the physique/athletic ability you desire....you're still putting your ability to be strong or jump higher or look good and get girls above animal suffering...kinda fucked.

I'm SUPER excited for lab grown meat, its gonna revolutionise this whole thing. SURELY it's easier to make lab grown milk/whey than it is to make meat though?

I know there are lots of vegan options out there now. maybe when I will have more money and can convince myself through that I will go vegan or at least consume way less/more ethical dairy.

The US definitely seems worse than the UK/eu in terms of mass production farming too.

if you're gunna eat meat hunting wild meat is the most ethical, but thats just not gonna become mainstream anytime soon and the numbers just dont work

As far as I can see it there is literally no ethical argument for eating meat... unless you truly believe animals are not sentinent...I think future humans will look back on what we've done to animals the last few 100 (1000?) years in disgust, they won't be able to even fathom how we could be so cruel and selfish.


gah no hate to all the meat eaters on here hahaha --- that got pretty ranty, but just been thinking about this a lot recently

Joe

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Re: The GUILT/SCARE you into going/staying vegan thread
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2018, 05:54:41 pm »
+3
As far as I can see it there is literally no ethical argument for eating meat... unless you truly believe animals are not sentinent...I think future humans will look back on what we've done to animals the last few 100 (1000?) years in disgust, they won't be able to even fathom how we could be so cruel and selfish.

I think that there's no good ethical reason for eating meat even if you don't care about animal welfare. Meat production is terrible for the environment and going veggie is one of the easiest ways to make a positive environmental impact.

adarq vegsquad nice
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maxent

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Re: The GUILT/SCARE you into going/staying vegan thread
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2018, 09:02:45 pm »
+1
Good thread. I'm coming around to the idea of going vegetarian.
Making a new strength setpoint of 75/100/150 on OHP/BP/BS.

FP

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Re: The GUILT/SCARE you into going/staying vegan thread
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2018, 12:32:36 am »
+1
I think you're right about there being no good reason to support the meat industry. It's just what people do because it doesn't require going against the grain and taking on the personal burden of such a big issue.

It's definitely something I will consider more seriously when I'm older, living on my own and have sorted out other things in my life.

I like the idea of hunting. Giving an animal (what can be called) a natural life cycle death and hunting ethically where animals are in overpopulation, possibly damaging to the environment makes sense to me. Many animals hunt and I'm sure some previous generations of humans were really reliant on that too.

What do you all think about the argument that the individual cannot make any real change with such a big issue? This is the argument I would make normally against going vegan, but lately I feel a need to be responsible for things I care about even if it doesn't make a huge difference.

I also don't want to be overwhelmed with the amount of things I do that support activities I don't agree with. Shopping at walmart, eating mcdonalds, not picking up trash etc. This girl I know literally takes it upon herself to pick up trash in the city on the way home from work. I can't dedicate my whole life to avoiding contributing to big problems..

And where would I draw the line? I don't think killing rats is morally wrong. I'm not sure how I feel about killing a rabbit.


gukl

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Re: The GUILT/SCARE you into going/staying vegan thread
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2018, 11:07:44 am »
+1
I think you're right about there being no good reason to support the meat industry. It's just what people do because it doesn't require going against the grain and taking on the personal burden of such a big issue.

It's definitely something I will consider more seriously when I'm older, living on my own and have sorted out other things in my life.

I like the idea of hunting. Giving an animal (what can be called) a natural life cycle death and hunting ethically where animals are in overpopulation, possibly damaging to the environment makes sense to me. Many animals hunt and I'm sure some previous generations of humans were really reliant on that too.

What do you all think about the argument that the individual cannot make any real change with such a big issue? This is the argument I would make normally against going vegan, but lately I feel a need to be responsible for things I care about even if it doesn't make a huge difference.

I also don't want to be overwhelmed with the amount of things I do that support activities I don't agree with. Shopping at walmart, eating mcdonalds, not picking up trash etc. This girl I know literally takes it upon herself to pick up trash in the city on the way home from work. I can't dedicate my whole life to avoiding contributing to big problems..

And where would I draw the line? I don't think killing rats is morally wrong. I'm not sure how I feel about killing a rabbit.

When I became veggie I thought of it like - 'right if I wanna eat meat, I better go and get that meat myself' because as you say, hunting can be pretty ethical. I have an uncle who goes to scotland and hunts wild deer (overpopulation issues exist) then prepares the meat etc. But then I thought, that feeling of pulling a trigger and ending the life of a beautiful animal so i can taste meat... is that worth it... to me? Would I do it? I decided no, i rather wouldn't ever shoot an animal like that for food. Thus i reasoned something in my head that I was a pussy for only eating meat that other people kill for me and realised that I'm probably too detached from nature to kill a cow or something myself and therefore had no business eating meat.

 With regards to 'only one person won't make a difference' it the same as like, not reusing shopping bags instead of getting disposable plastic bags or not turning off the light swtich cos..MEH. Change has to start somewhere though... I dunno...soon enough things start gathering momentum. More and more people were reusing plastic bags, awareness of the issues increased. then the government were like hey we should probably do something too. then they introduced a 5 pence charge for plastic bags and the number of plastic bags used dropped DRAMATICALLY...

Quote
7 main retailers issued around 83% fewer bags (over 6 billion bags fewer) in 2016 to 2017 compared to the calendar year 2014

so you keep pushing an agenda and sooner or enough it becomes mainstream and then eventually the people with the power to actually make a big difference do something but that would never happen if nobody cared at the start. I think something similar will happen in the meat/dairy industry. For example battery farming hens was made illegal... now i think most people would rather have free range eggs than 'caged' or even barn raised hens.

also yeah, its rewarding to do stuff that you know is just 'right'. there is something in it for you... now when i'm lazy and dont recycle something for my own convenience I feel some kind of guilt. same when i drink milk. GAH.

also its worth saying remembering that if everybody halved their meat intake, it would be better for both animals + the environment than 10% of people going vegan and everyone else staying the same so yeah - even just actively trying to reduce your meat/dairy intake helps.

gukl

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Re: The GUILT/SCARE you into going/staying vegan thread
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2018, 11:13:09 am »
+1
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ti-WcnqUwLM" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ti-WcnqUwLM</a>

gonna leave this here. interesting vid, i like peter singers stuff on this - see how dawkins basically agrees with everything but still won't stop eating meat...he can't really put his finger on why...he knows its ethically 'right' but...

seifullaah73

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Re: The GUILT/SCARE you into going/staying vegan thread
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2018, 02:42:47 pm »
+1
I stay away from any meat that involves an animal going through any suffering of any sort.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Note for self:
A
>>    Jump Squats
>>    Half Squats
>>    Partials at the bottom: 3-5 x 15 (very controlled)
>>    Calf Raises
>>    RDL
>>
>> B
>>    Jump Squats
>>    Half Squats
>>    Squat singles x 10, reset between reps, just working on hitting
>> depth comfortably with moderate loads
>>    Calf Raises
>>    RDL
-------------------------------------------------------------
Measuring reminder:
5 toe to heel steps = 148cm
------------------------------------------------------------------------

�Strength comes from the legs, Power comes from the torso and Speed comes from the arm.� � Al Vermeil

My Progress Log
A Journey to Running fast and Jumping High

adarqui

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Re: The GUILT/SCARE you into going/staying vegan thread
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2018, 07:13:53 pm »
0
uh, nice thread.

i've been vegetarian (lacto/ovo) for years now. I think one day i'll make the switch to vegan. I became a vegetarian because I believed animals were sentinent and it was selfish of me to endorse the suffering that meat comes along with AND i figured I could meet all my nutritional needs being veggie easily - which i can. Now the jumpt  veganism is a lot more difficult in terms of organising your nutrition, getting adequate protein, b12, iron etc but its 100% possible. So thus now my laziness (and love of cheese) is more important to me than animal suffering.

You introduced me to the whole lacto-ovo stuff a while back, I haven't done much research in this area. I'm trying to become more ovo-vegan but, it's rough. I definitely have to cut out milk/cheese as much as possible, it definitely impacts how I feel/cramp for running. 100%.

As for chicken, I just still crave it. I've had it several times recently and it feels like it "really helps".

As for whey, I don't feel like it helps at all. Eggs/Chicken yes, Whey no. There's just a major difference in how I feel/think when I cut out animal products. I literally become more depressed etc, it's interesting -> I also get erm.. ED & such. Once I add back eggs or chicken, boom i'm ok again.

So, right now i'm trying to cut out meat completely, and chicken for the most part. As for eggs, i'm trying to make those my "main source", ie ~4 eggs ~5d/wk. It's incredible how strong I feel when I eat eggs. Which is something I also noticed back when I dunked. I used to eat LOTS of eggs & bananas. Just seems to work great for me.

I also feel very strong when I eat red meat/steak & such too .. but, sometimes it can wreck my stomach similar to milk/dairy, just weighs me down. AND, i'd like to cut that source out so..

octo-(occasional-poultry)-vegan :/

Quote
also i was so obsessed with eating meat to get my protein a few years back but even if you couldn't meet your 'protein requirements' for the physique/athletic ability you desire....you're still putting your ability to be strong or jump higher or look good and get girls above animal suffering...kinda fucked.

ya that's an interesting thought, which I got several times recently & it bugged me. I thought about it alot after I ate those full rack of ribs basically two days in a row after my ultra relay. It really bothered me.

Quote
I'm SUPER excited for lab grown meat, its gonna revolutionise this whole thing. SURELY it's easier to make lab grown milk/whey than it is to make meat though?

I know there are lots of vegan options out there now. maybe when I will have more money and can convince myself through that I will go vegan or at least consume way less/more ethical dairy.

The US definitely seems worse than the UK/eu in terms of mass production farming too.

if you're gunna eat meat hunting wild meat is the most ethical, but thats just not gonna become mainstream anytime soon and the numbers just dont work

As far as I can see it there is literally no ethical argument for eating meat... unless you truly believe animals are not sentinent...I think future humans will look back on what we've done to animals the last few 100 (1000?) years in disgust, they won't be able to even fathom how we could be so cruel and selfish.


gah no hate to all the meat eaters on here hahaha --- that got pretty ranty, but just been thinking about this a lot recently

good stuff!

also as far as strength/power/physique go, you've proven lacto-ovo-vegan works well!

adarqui

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Re: The GUILT/SCARE you into going/staying vegan thread
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2018, 07:14:53 pm »
0
As far as I can see it there is literally no ethical argument for eating meat... unless you truly believe animals are not sentinent...I think future humans will look back on what we've done to animals the last few 100 (1000?) years in disgust, they won't be able to even fathom how we could be so cruel and selfish.

I think that there's no good ethical reason for eating meat even if you don't care about animal welfare. Meat production is terrible for the environment and going veggie is one of the easiest ways to make a positive environmental impact.

yup! good points.

Quote
adarq vegsquad nice

one day adarqui will join adarq vegsquad :/

adarqui

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Re: The GUILT/SCARE you into going/staying vegan thread
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2018, 07:21:52 pm »
0
I think you're right about there being no good reason to support the meat industry. It's just what people do because it doesn't require going against the grain and taking on the personal burden of such a big issue.

It's definitely something I will consider more seriously when I'm older, living on my own and have sorted out other things in my life.

I like the idea of hunting. Giving an animal (what can be called) a natural life cycle death and hunting ethically where animals are in overpopulation, possibly damaging to the environment makes sense to me. Many animals hunt and I'm sure some previous generations of humans were really reliant on that too.

I could never hunt, but that's a great point.

Once in my life, I shot an animal (bird) with a pellet gun (when I was like 12?) .. Maybe I just wanted to see how it felt. I cried myself and still look back on it with shame. I never did anything like that ever again. Not an ounce of joy/fun from that moment. If I had to kill animals for food, I wouldn't. I can deal with unfertalized hen/chicken eggs and such, no problem. But killing an animal, impossible for me, except in self defense. But that's a completely different scenario.

Quote
What do you all think about the argument that the individual cannot make any real change with such a big issue? This is the argument I would make normally against going vegan, but lately I feel a need to be responsible for things I care about even if it doesn't make a huge difference.

I also don't want to be overwhelmed with the amount of things I do that support activities I don't agree with. Shopping at walmart, eating mcdonalds, not picking up trash etc. This girl I know literally takes it upon herself to pick up trash in the city on the way home from work. I can't dedicate my whole life to avoiding contributing to big problems..

that girl is a boss. :highfive: :highfive: :highfive:

my Mom used to do stuff like that. She also taught me early not to litter and such, just simple things. Then, when you're with coworkers or friends and they litter, it's like a "bombshell", or at least that's how it feels to me. I mean I try to be nice about it, like no dude i'll throw that out etc.. but it's interesting what kind of feelings it creates, almost like a little "stab". That's probably how people feel when they grow up with parents who teach them how to eat "more ethically" (or vegan) etc. ie, it's hard to acquire that kind of "visceral reaction" to something late in life, i've found. When it's engrained in you since a young age, it's a completely different experience.

Quote
And where would I draw the line? I don't think killing rats is morally wrong. I'm not sure how I feel about killing a rabbit.


Merrick

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Re: The GUILT/SCARE you into going/staying vegan thread
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2018, 09:31:32 pm »
+2
Hey guys, I don't know if any of you guys remember me, I used to post on here a while back.  I randomly decided to check out the forum just now and noticed this thread lol.  I am Vegan and an Activist as well.  I love how open-minded everyone on here seems to be and after reading through the thread, I would just like to share some insights I have learned from my 2 years of veganism.  Whether you think I am spreading vegan propaganda, I am wrong, I am annoying, that's fine, take from this what you will but I just know I wish I knew all this a lot earlier than just 2 years ago, so hopefully this can be useful for some of you guys.  The following are simply my views (as well as most vegans), so please do not take them as me being militant or authoritative.

1) A lot of people seem to be talking about hunting being an ethical way of eating meat.  The way I see it is yes, animals hunt each other, and our ancestors did as well.  But their situation was completely different.  They did so out of necessity.  For them, it is literally kill or be killed.  We have the privilege to avoid such extreme lifestyles.  We simply need to walk to the grocery store and can purchase food to survive.  Therefore, hunting an animal when we simply do not need to is greed.  Although it is technically "better" that an animal got to live a 'natural' life before being quickly killed by a bullet, the fact still comes down to, animals are sentient (obviously) and have a desire to live, share experienced with family/friends, enjoy playing/food, and seek to maximize pleasure and minimize pain in their one and only life.  It is not ethical to take an animals life simply because we want to eat them when we have plenty of other options.

This blind spot in our ethics is heavily influenced by our flawed culture.  Im sure everyone here would have a completely different view if I said I want to kill dogs quick and pain-free to eat them, when I can simply eat something else?  So what makes a dog different than a wild animal?  Dogs just have the luck of being chosen by people to be "pets", yet across an imaginary border into Korea or China, their are plenty of dog farms for dog meat. 

It is the same old trick of culture labeling different sentient beings based off of arbitrary labels.  They do this with humans, based off of various labels regarding race/sex/sexuality/etc... and also with animals.  The only thing that matters is, not our personal preference, but the fact that they are all sentient and have a desire to live and that basic fundamental right should be respected when we have other alternatives.

Hunting for overpopulation is also a faulty reason simply because this is implying that we are trying to maintain natural order on this planet.  The circle of life per se.  It is important to realize that, nature doesn't really get anything wrong.  It is humans who have created all the problems. Animal agriculture is the #1 cause of global warming, ocean dead zones, water pollution, species extinction, habitat destruction, rainforest destruction, among many other environmental factors (not to mention nature never intended for humans to artificially breed 57 billion land animals every year to be enslaved in buildings and suffer and take up all the land).  Any part of nature that is not in "balance" has its problem rooted in humans.  Therefore hunting to control overpopulation, is treating the symptom and not the root cause.  If anyone should pay for the crime, why should it be those who did nothing wrong?  Humans are overpopulating the planet as well, why not kill off a big number of humans (I am joking, I am not suggesting we do such a thing).  The point is, hunting to control overpopulation is like big Pharma and medication.  Treat the symptom while new symptoms arise, just ignore the root cause.

2) Going vegetarian is a huge positive step towards an ethical lifestyle but just incase some are not familiar, I would like to share why only vegan is the ethical choice.  It doesn't matter if the eggs or dairy we buy come from "free-range" or "cage free" or "humane" (although I encourage you all to see what these really mean (you will be shocked at what counts as "free-range or cage free")), cruelty is always rampant.

In the dairy industry, the farmer jacks off a bull to collect their sperm and either using his hand or a metal rod, forcibly impregnates the female cow in the "rape rack" (this is the a name the dairy industry uses, not one vegans made).  The cow gives birth and as all animals, mother and new-born babies have a special bond. However, the baby calf is taken away from the mother immediately in most cases (if they're lucky 3 days tops).  This is because the baby is going to steal "our" milk.  If the baby is female she will be taken away to be used in the same dairy practices. If the baby is male they are tied in a tiny cage to prevent muscular development so they can be killed in 4-6 months for veal meat (since they are useless for milk production).  If calf supply is full, the baby boys die right after birth.  The mother gets raped again as soon as possible, and this cycle continues until around age 4-6 (they usually live from 20-25 years) until milk production slows down and is considered "unprofitable" and then gets sent to the meat industry to be slaughtered.

The same exact thing happens in the egg industry.  Baby male chicks are either drowned or thrown into a macerator at the day of birth because they will be of no use for egg production.  Mother hens/chickens are treated the same way as cows.  When egg production slows, they are sent to the meat industry for slaughter.

"Humane" is also an oxymoron and a lie.  It goes back to my points about hunting.  Humane means to show compassion. There is no way in my opinion, to artificially breed into existence a peaceful sentient being and have their death day marked (way before their natural life cycle) as soon as they are born.  Just cause one has had a good life, doesn't mean it's okay for them to die.  That actually means, they had many things to continue living for.  The enjoyment of life/ family/ and friends just like us.  Just imagine if I got a litter of puppies and treated them well and at age 4, kill them for food.  The connection we have with dogs is not one of "dogs are different from other animals" it is simply one of familiarity and cultural influence.  Again, should our biased personal preferences dictate the basic fundamental right of a sentient being to be free to live their life?  Is this decision based off of a biased personal preference not a commonality in all injustices in the history of this planet?

3) 1 person making a change

Humanity has made many progressions in history and it always started with a tiny minority standing up against the conventional norms that they questioned.  If everyone thought "I am only 1 person" then society would look a lot different than it does now.  Here is an interesting statistic.  Vegans in the U.S. made up 1% of the population in 2014.  As of today, they make up 6%.  As with any social revolution in the past, the side of Truth always wins.  It always starts off small, but no one is immune to seeing Truth with their own eyes.

4) Whey or any other animal product nutrition. 

Today more and more olympic and professional athletes are going vegan because the science shows that it not only has all the nutrients required, but is even more beneficial.  I encourage everyone to check the science on human physiology. We are nearly identical to all the other herbivores in the animal kingdom such as gorillas. 

Protein requirements has also been extremely exaggerated as vast majority of studies that show high protein requirements have been exposed as funded by meat and dairy industries.  There are many professional bodybuilders who are seeing that their gains are the exact same with less protein as well as plant protein. 

B12 is only naturally found in soil.  The natural way to get B12 would be like people of the past who grew crops and pulled them out of the ground and ate them.  We do not do that anymore with our mass production. The only reason why meat has B12 in it is because in meat farms, the animals food is supplemented with B12.  So getting a cheap B12 supplement (like 15 bucks lasts a year or something), is the same as getting it from meat.  Both were "supplemented".  If you drink plant milk, they are almost all fortified with B12 to make it much easier.  Iron is easily found in legumes and as athletes, this also provides tons of protein so it's efficient.  Even omega 3's are not originally from fish oil, but fish eat algae.  There are vegan algae supplements or you can do things like eat flaxseed. 

And yes, meat consumption has a high correlation with ED lol.

As with anything in life, it's difficult at first, but with practice, quickly becomes easy.  Over time, you learn how to cook, grocery shop, order food at non-vegan restaurants, etc...  It's all about going at your own comfortable pace (not going vegan all in overnight) and as you get more comfortable and learn more, you take steps towards complete veganism. 

I don't want anyone to believe anything I said.  This topic is very important as it is serious for the well-being of peaceful animals, the well-being of the planet, and to improve human health and have these chronic diseases no longer being the norm (heart disease is the #1 killer in the world for men and women).  Therefore, I only say all these things to encourage everyone to research more into all of this. 

Documentaries I recommend which have all been received REALLY WELL by vegans and non-vegans.
What The Health - Itunes/Netflix > shows all the health aspects and exposes the meat industry and pharma industry and their corruptions
CoWspiracy - Netflix > Environmental impact of animal agriculture
Earthlings - This is free on www.nationearth.com > This documentary can be hard to watch for some, but the way I see it, whether we change our lifestyles or not, the VERY LEAST we need to do is at least educate ourselves on what EXACTLY goes into the products we purchase on a daily basis.  Keeping a blind eye to the consequences of our actions is not right.  This documentary shows the procedures of food, entertainment (zoos/circuses), animal testing, clothing (fur/leather > there is vegan fur and vegan leather, just like vegan meat, vegan chicken, etc...)

I will just end this on one final note.  Veganism is something I know 99% of the population agrees with.  Because it simply means: If we can live happy and healthy lives without causing any intentional suffering onto animals, then why not?  And in todays day and age, with more and more vegan products such as vegan chicken/meat/dairy/ even Vegan fish/eggs coming out, they are tasting more and more realistic, it has never been easier to be vegan.  All it takes is an intention, and going at a steady pace towards that lifestyle everyone already agrees with.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2018, 10:17:50 pm by Merrick »

Merrick

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Re: The GUILT/SCARE you into going/staying vegan thread
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2018, 10:07:20 pm »
+1
Also some extra things I forgot to mention:

Veganism is generally not more expensive.  This is a myth.  In poor countries around the world, MEAT is a luxury.  It takes 18x more land to feed a average meat eater than it does a vegan.  It actually takes up to 2500 gallons of water to produce 1 lb of beef.  I mean, the cheapest foods in the world are vegan such as pasta, rice, beans, other grains/legumes.  Now of course there are expensive vegan stuff such as exotic fruits and veggies, but you can also get the cheaper ones.  Nothing wrong with good ol bananas and lettuce.  Tofu is also pretty cheap.  Now if you want to buy vegan "animal product" substitutes such as vegan meat, it can be more pricey than normal ingredients, but still within the same range as regular animal products.

Now some people think "soy" is bad. Soy contains PHYTOestrogen which has been shown to not affect hormone levels at all.  It is the mammalian estrogen found in dairy that actually affects hormones.  I mean, it does come from a pregnant female (not that this is a scientific reason). 

And just to name a few common misconceptions on the "omnivore or herbivore" debate.  Yes we have canines, but so do virtually every other classified herbivore, in fact the biggest canines in the world are from an herbivore (hippos).  True meat eaters, have canines that can rip into the flesh of an animal, while our pathetic canines cannot.

Our intestinal tract is the same length as other herbivores (9-12x length of our body), while all meat eaters have short ones (3-6x length) which is to empty out the rotting flesh quickly.

All meat eaters pant to cool off while herbivores sweat through their pores. 

We, like other herbivores have jaw that go in all directions especially side to side to grind, while all meat eaters only go up and down.

We also have carb digesting enzymes in our saliva.

We also have weak hydrochloric acid compared to true meat eaters.

Among many others.

Also one big one.  We have zero psychological carnivorous instincts unlike other true meat eaters.  If you put a baby human in a crib with a bunny and a apple, the baby will eat the apple and play with the bunny 100 out of 100 times.  Our empathetic feelings towards videos/pictures of animals in factory farms are feelings that we have had since birth.  Feelings of disinterest or 'hate' towards these animals are all learned behaviors from a flawed culture/society like any other form of discrimination.  No one is born a racist, sexist, or a speciesist.  We are taught against our will at a young age, what animals to ignore and eat, and which animals to adore and pet.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2018, 10:54:29 pm by Merrick »

adarqui

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Re: The GUILT/SCARE you into going/staying vegan thread
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2018, 08:14:51 pm »
+1
Hey guys, I don't know if any of you guys remember me, I used to post on here a while back. I randomly decided to check out the forum just now and noticed this thread lol.

yea I remember for sure, hope you've been doing good man!

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I am Vegan and an Activist as well.

nice!

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I love how open-minded everyone on here seems to be and after reading through the thread, I would just like to share some insights I have learned from my 2 years of veganism.  Whether you think I am spreading vegan propaganda, I am wrong, I am annoying, that's fine, take from this what you will but I just know I wish I knew all this a lot earlier than just 2 years ago, so hopefully this can be useful for some of you guys.  The following are simply my views (as well as most vegans), so please do not take them as me being militant or authoritative.

1) A lot of people seem to be talking about hunting being an ethical way of eating meat.  The way I see it is yes, animals hunt each other, and our ancestors did as well.  But their situation was completely different.  They did so out of necessity.  For them, it is literally kill or be killed.  We have the privilege to avoid such extreme lifestyles.  We simply need to walk to the grocery store and can purchase food to survive.  Therefore, hunting an animal when we simply do not need to is greed.  Although it is technically "better" that an animal got to live a 'natural' life before being quickly killed by a bullet, the fact still comes down to, animals are sentient (obviously) and have a desire to live, share experienced with family/friends, enjoy playing/food, and seek to maximize pleasure and minimize pain in their one and only life.  It is not ethical to take an animals life simply because we want to eat them when we have plenty of other options.

good point about necessity vs choice.

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This blind spot in our ethics is heavily influenced by our flawed culture.  Im sure everyone here would have a completely different view if I said I want to kill dogs quick and pain-free to eat them, when I can simply eat something else?  So what makes a dog different than a wild animal?  Dogs just have the luck of being chosen by people to be "pets", yet across an imaginary border into Korea or China, their are plenty of dog farms for dog meat. 

It is the same old trick of culture labeling different sentient beings based off of arbitrary labels.  They do this with humans, based off of various labels regarding race/sex/sexuality/etc... and also with animals.  The only thing that matters is, not our personal preference, but the fact that they are all sentient and have a desire to live and that basic fundamental right should be respected when we have other alternatives.

yea this goes back to programming. throughout most of the world, eating dogs is revolting, but those are just the values that most cultures program into their children. Like you said, in Korea or China they are boiling dogs & cats alive on the street, and the vast majority of the population doesn't flinch. I'd be "horrified" if I saw that in person.

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Hunting for overpopulation is also a faulty reason simply because this is implying that we are trying to maintain natural order on this planet.  The circle of life per se.  It is important to realize that, nature doesn't really get anything wrong.  It is humans who have created all the problems. Animal agriculture is the #1 cause of global warming, ocean dead zones, water pollution, species extinction, habitat destruction, rainforest destruction, among many other environmental factors (not to mention nature never intended for humans to artificially breed 57 billion land animals every year to be enslaved in buildings and suffer and take up all the land).  Any part of nature that is not in "balance" has its problem rooted in humans.  Therefore hunting to control overpopulation, is treating the symptom and not the root cause.  If anyone should pay for the crime, why should it be those who did nothing wrong?  Humans are overpopulating the planet as well, why not kill off a big number of humans (I am joking, I am not suggesting we do such a thing).  The point is, hunting to control overpopulation is like big Pharma and medication.  Treat the symptom while new symptoms arise, just ignore the root cause.

great stuff. yea, humans are a wreck. it's depressing.

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2) Going vegetarian is a huge positive step towards an ethical lifestyle but just incase some are not familiar, I would like to share why only vegan is the ethical choice.  It doesn't matter if the eggs or dairy we buy come from "free-range" or "cage free" or "humane" (although I encourage you all to see what these really mean (you will be shocked at what counts as "free-range or cage free")), cruelty is always rampant.

In the dairy industry, the farmer jacks off a bull to collect their sperm and either using his hand or a metal rod, forcibly impregnates the female cow in the "rape rack" (this is the a name the dairy industry uses, not one vegans made).  The cow gives birth and as all animals, mother and new-born babies have a special bond. However, the baby calf is taken away from the mother immediately in most cases (if they're lucky 3 days tops).  This is because the baby is going to steal "our" milk.  If the baby is female she will be taken away to be used in the same dairy practices. If the baby is male they are tied in a tiny cage to prevent muscular development so they can be killed in 4-6 months for veal meat (since they are useless for milk production).  If calf supply is full, the baby boys die right after birth.  The mother gets raped again as soon as possible, and this cycle continues until around age 4-6 (they usually live from 20-25 years) until milk production slows down and is considered "unprofitable" and then gets sent to the meat industry to be slaughtered.

The same exact thing happens in the egg industry.  Baby male chicks are either drowned or thrown into a macerator at the day of birth because they will be of no use for egg production.  Mother hens/chickens are treated the same way as cows.  When egg production slows, they are sent to the meat industry for slaughter.

"Humane" is also an oxymoron and a lie.  It goes back to my points about hunting.  Humane means to show compassion. There is no way in my opinion, to artificially breed into existence a peaceful sentient being and have their death day marked (way before their natural life cycle) as soon as they are born.  Just cause one has had a good life, doesn't mean it's okay for them to die.  That actually means, they had many things to continue living for.  The enjoyment of life/ family/ and friends just like us.  Just imagine if I got a litter of puppies and treated them well and at age 4, kill them for food.  The connection we have with dogs is not one of "dogs are different from other animals" it is simply one of familiarity and cultural influence.  Again, should our biased personal preferences dictate the basic fundamental right of a sentient being to be free to live their life?  Is this decision based off of a biased personal preference not a commonality in all injustices in the history of this planet?

3) 1 person making a change

Humanity has made many progressions in history and it always started with a tiny minority standing up against the conventional norms that they questioned.  If everyone thought "I am only 1 person" then society would look a lot different than it does now.  Here is an interesting statistic.  Vegans in the U.S. made up 1% of the population in 2014.  As of today, they make up 6%.  As with any social revolution in the past, the side of Truth always wins.  It always starts off small, but no one is immune to seeing Truth with their own eyes.

4) Whey or any other animal product nutrition. 

Today more and more olympic and professional athletes are going vegan because the science shows that it not only has all the nutrients required, but is even more beneficial.  I encourage everyone to check the science on human physiology. We are nearly identical to all the other herbivores in the animal kingdom such as gorillas. 

Protein requirements has also been extremely exaggerated as vast majority of studies that show high protein requirements have been exposed as funded by meat and dairy industries.  There are many professional bodybuilders who are seeing that their gains are the exact same with less protein as well as plant protein. 

B12 is only naturally found in soil.  The natural way to get B12 would be like people of the past who grew crops and pulled them out of the ground and ate them.  We do not do that anymore with our mass production. The only reason why meat has B12 in it is because in meat farms, the animals food is supplemented with B12.  So getting a cheap B12 supplement (like 15 bucks lasts a year or something), is the same as getting it from meat.  Both were "supplemented".  If you drink plant milk, they are almost all fortified with B12 to make it much easier.  Iron is easily found in legumes and as athletes, this also provides tons of protein so it's efficient.  Even omega 3's are not originally from fish oil, but fish eat algae.  There are vegan algae supplements or you can do things like eat flaxseed. 

And yes, meat consumption has a high correlation with ED lol.

As with anything in life, it's difficult at first, but with practice, quickly becomes easy.  Over time, you learn how to cook, grocery shop, order food at non-vegan restaurants, etc...  It's all about going at your own comfortable pace (not going vegan all in overnight) and as you get more comfortable and learn more, you take steps towards complete veganism. 

I don't want anyone to believe anything I said.  This topic is very important as it is serious for the well-being of peaceful animals, the well-being of the planet, and to improve human health and have these chronic diseases no longer being the norm (heart disease is the #1 killer in the world for men and women).  Therefore, I only say all these things to encourage everyone to research more into all of this. 

Documentaries I recommend which have all been received REALLY WELL by vegans and non-vegans.
What The Health - Itunes/Netflix > shows all the health aspects and exposes the meat industry and pharma industry and their corruptions
CoWspiracy - Netflix > Environmental impact of animal agriculture
Earthlings - This is free on www.nationearth.com > This documentary can be hard to watch for some, but the way I see it, whether we change our lifestyles or not, the VERY LEAST we need to do is at least educate ourselves on what EXACTLY goes into the products we purchase on a daily basis.  Keeping a blind eye to the consequences of our actions is not right.  This documentary shows the procedures of food, entertainment (zoos/circuses), animal testing, clothing (fur/leather > there is vegan fur and vegan leather, just like vegan meat, vegan chicken, etc...)

I will just end this on one final note.  Veganism is something I know 99% of the population agrees with.  Because it simply means: If we can live happy and healthy lives without causing any intentional suffering onto animals, then why not?  And in todays day and age, with more and more vegan products such as vegan chicken/meat/dairy/ even Vegan fish/eggs coming out, they are tasting more and more realistic, it has never been easier to be vegan.  All it takes is an intention, and going at a steady pace towards that lifestyle everyone already agrees with.

what a great post man. thanks for sharing that.

I plan to check out some of those docs. Earthlings sounds pretty intense, but I imagine it should be. "We" are shielded from the truths of it, which so easily allows us to simply skate through without thinking about what's going on behind the scenes. I often think about what's going on behind the scenes before I order at some random restaurant, which makes me want to order something with less or no animal products. Just always pops in my head. It's at least helped me reduce my intake considerably.

checking next post.

peace!!