Author Topic: chasing athleticism  (Read 940149 times)

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T0ddday

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #2565 on: February 20, 2016, 03:11:56 pm »
+3
Sure here you go, sources below. And lol, yes it is well known among the lifting community .. esp bodybuilding!

Quote
If you’re above 15% body fat (about 24-27% for women), diet first. If you can get to the 10-12% (19-24%) body fat range or so, I think you’ll be in an overall better position to gain mass. Trying to get super lean will probably end up screwing you in the long run because your body will be primed to put back fat on (and most other physiological systems are screwed up as well) when you get super lean.

Quote
The question is why, why is bodyfat percentage having such a profound impact on P-ratio. Well, there are a few easy answers. One is that bodyfat and insulin sensitivity tend to correlate: the fatter you get, the more insulin resistant you tend to get and the leaner you are the more insulin sensitive you tend to be.

Honestly the most frustrating thing about being in science/medicine...  You put 10 years in school, years working in a top metabolism lab, hours upon hours actually doing research and understanding statistics and then someone tells you their source is some internet guru with a snarky attitude who sells books and programs and writes "sciency" sounding things...  Smh...

Theirs some guy even more popular than that guy who runs an intermittent fasting site and had gall to determine the natural limits of muscle for all humans...  lol.  According to him no man can be under 6 feet and over 200lbs with single digit bf...  (coincidentally that was as big as he could get lol).  Well I guess im on drugs then cause Im just too strong.  So is all of samoa....

Did you ever consider that your an individual?  East indian extraction (famine resistance)?  Female fat storage (possibly Kleinfelters?).   Perhaps maybe very leptin resistant?  Maybe you are different?  Maybe your not supposed to be 10% bf.  There is variance in the population.  The fact that you have lost like 40 pounds and your vertical has stayed them same or dropped and only got to 27.5 is more than enough proof of this for me...

Fact is, I agree with a lot of your thinking.  I think your smart to focus on getting lean first.  I give similar advice.  Bulking is silly for strength athletes...  but if your dropping weight and your not jumping higher (and better at bw lifts) then either your doing it wrong OR you are dropping too much weight for your body... 

maxent

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #2566 on: February 20, 2016, 03:45:47 pm »
+1
No i've always held the individual is different and that's the message others are missing because they're projecting their assumptions of what a person should be (based on BMI which is bullshit anyway) at a given height and weight. I'm not the one arguing against individual variation, they are!

It's common knowledge that you can improve your T-levels by reducing bodyfat % and decrease it by increasing bodyfat%. And insulin sensitivity does improve when you're leaner and it does worse when you get fatter. These things are good reasons to get lean regardless of the messenger but the main reason I believe in becoming lean first is the because bodyfat amount (in grams) will go up when you gain weight and if you start off with too much fat then you will end up too fat. To gain muscle you obviously have to gain some weight so that's unavoidable.

But yeah i'd just ask everyone to be patient and defer their criticisms until i've finished this cycle (<75kg/165lb) in ETA 10 days time. After that im going to stop cutting per se and just focus on getting stronger and gaining some muscle while staying at 75kg or less. For a while. And i'll get the DEXA scan for your edification so we can get an objective 3rd party opinion on the mystery of my bodyfat%.

I dont know if my vertical has not gone up cause i haven't focused on peaking it since i lost this weight. But of course that the next phase when i get off the cut will be to peak my vertical which should be interesting to see. I do expect PRs though, just dont know whether it will be low 30s or more than that.

TLDR:  i'll update with photos in 10 days after finishing this cut. And after some weeks of stabilising at 75kg/165lb, will get a DEXA scan done.

Training for sub 20 5K & 40" RVJ & 170kg BS @ 85kg bw. log entry template

Merrick

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #2567 on: February 20, 2016, 04:50:18 pm »
+1
Aren't you retiring from vert training and stuff after your March bball tournament? 

Aren't you trying to enter the tournament, being the most athletic you've ever been?

Getting anorexic while losing strength doesn't make any sense.  Will the extra testosterone production help you on fast breaks?  Is that it?

2 more weeks of scheduled dietng left. Feeling pessimistic bout reachign my goal weight of <75kg/165b by then .. but we'll see, may have an overnight whoosh at some point and bring me close. I know i improve my bodycomp by doing more cardio

The HIIT sprints i did on monday made my quads sore (as expected) but it didn't seem to affect my squatting too badly so that's promising. And i'd be crazy to attribute it to just one workout -- but my love handles have melted appreciably the last coupla days.. so maybe it's already doing good things for bodycomp!

I feel like going off the caloric deficit will give me some strength gains. Stopping the stupid fasting thing will give me some gains. Maybe i can just go balls to teh wall and get some more gainz. also maybe the hip thrusts and rdls will help indirectly too? will all of that be enough to finally reach the 2xbw BS?

Also, mentalities like this is never good.  Looking for magic gains in every little variable.  Oh I'm gonna do X and Y and Z and that should give me 3.543 inches, etc...

maxent

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #2568 on: February 20, 2016, 05:57:51 pm »
0
From competitive bball, yeah i think im just bout done with the sport. From vertical trainign and stuff, idk, probably there too, it may not be possible to do much better than what i've achieved .. did start with a 20" vert so im not sure there is much left but diminishing returns from training. Will see though, once i stop playing bball i can explore other things like using PEDs and that may allow me to unlock more vertical gains but not really sure about going down that road tbh.

I do want to go into the tournament in the best shape of my life.. and as athletic as ive ever been. But time is not on my side and i have left too much left last minute.. (body comp, strength, peaking etc) .. so may have to settle for less than that. i'll try my best ofc but it seems pretty unlikely at this point.

the gains im looking for are from a)accessory work (rdls, hip thrusts) and getting my squat going again despite my changes of bodyweight, and b)going from a catabolic state (cutting) to a more anabolic one. Anyone who goes on a cut will lose some performance, 10% is not unusual. If coming off the cut usually will give a boost in strength and athleticism which will be cool. c)explore weight vest for peaking. and a few other things im forgetting now but i could try to peak my athleticism. The little things add up. d)stopping fasting always helps me train better.
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LBSS

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #2569 on: February 20, 2016, 06:11:47 pm »
+3
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

black lives matter

maxent

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #2570 on: February 21, 2016, 07:11:54 am »
0
BW: 76.15kg/167.88lb (2016 PR)

Activity:
Played pickup .. didn't want to, but felt compelled since the team is low on morale/numbers. Was fasted and lowcarbed (100g) yesterday. I wanted to and took it mostly easy but had an opportunity at a dunk under the rim and rattled one in .. my back didn't like the impact of landing but it's not too bad. IProbably should have just rested for lifting tmr .. but whatever.  My fitbit already shows 5k steps for the day.. oops.



Food


So much for a rest day, FML. But the food intake above will be my goto for rest days for the remaining 9 days.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2016, 11:23:50 am by maxent »
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Merrick

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #2571 on: February 21, 2016, 05:44:44 pm »
0
I'm no nutrition expert, but aren't you getting very low fat?  It's usually recommended to get minimum 0.5g/lb of bodyweight in fat to meet hormonal needs I think

maxent

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #2572 on: February 21, 2016, 08:13:03 pm »
0
I'm no nutrition expert, but aren't you getting very low fat?  It's usually recommended to get minimum 0.5g/lb of bodyweight in fat to meet hormonal needs I think

I dont know, the fish oil shud cover the EFA requirements? THe book i was reading actually says that i might be having too much fish oil. The author suggests max 6 capsules (of 1g each) a day to avoid blood clotting (or something). I will reduce it to 6g after the diet.
Training for sub 20 5K & 40" RVJ & 170kg BS @ 85kg bw. log entry template

T0ddday

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #2573 on: February 22, 2016, 03:42:48 am »
+4
From competitive bball, yeah i think im just bout done with the sport. From vertical trainign and stuff, idk, probably there too, it may not be possible to do much better than what i've achieved .. did start with a 20" vert so im not sure there is much left but diminishing returns from training. Will see though, once i stop playing bball i can explore other things like using PEDs and that may allow me to unlock more vertical gains but not really sure about going down that road tbh.

PEDs to unlock vertical gains?  Dunno about the utility of that, haven't seen PEDs benefit any male explosive athletes yet.  There is this one PED called food and muscle that will do wonders for you.   The idea that there are diminishing returns after the move from 20'' to 27'' is really one that is so defeatist it's actually disheartening.  I would bet a lot of money on the idea that I could get you to 35''.  Your extremely disciplined which is the number one untrainable thing - everything else can be fixed.   

The biggest problem you have is a lack of belief and a lack of positive motivation/competition.   I really don't know anything about Australia so I don't know how much you can change this but if you were in a different training environment you would be shocked to see what you could do.  I hardly even dunk because my knees can't take pounding but today I trained a dunker along with a football player.  Having never trained a pro-dunker before was eye-opening, a local guy whose internet name is young-hollywood came to one of our sessions to learn about speed and rehab and just seeing him jump was so motivating.  I was always skeptical of internet dunkers and videos and imagined a lot of camera artistry and exaggerations about height... But this guy was no more than 5'11 and had a legitimate 50'' two footed jump.  Even though I didn't plan to jump I was motivated to jump at the vertec and got some 11' 3-step vertec touches in for the first time I can remember.  That of course is slightly below the guys standing vertical.  Lol.  The motivation a group of positive athletes has on each other really is helpful, you could unlock gains you don't know exist with the right environment - far more than what PEDs can give you. 

vag

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #2574 on: February 22, 2016, 05:28:22 am »
0
Off topic but... Young Hollywood can get his head higher than where i can get my fingertip  :wowthatwasnutswtf:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJNJ3JlLSbo" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJNJ3JlLSbo</a>

Must have been amazing to witness such a jump live.
Target training paces (min/km), calculated from 5K PR 22:49 :
Easy run : 5:48
Tempo run : 4:50
VO2-max run :4:21
Speed form run : 4:02

---

it's the biggest trick in the run game.. go slow to go fast. it doesn't make sense until it smacks you in the face and you're like ....... wtf?

Merrick

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #2575 on: February 22, 2016, 05:34:34 am »
0
  There is this one PED called food and muscle that will do wonders for you.   

Where can you buy these?!

Also, Young Hollywood is crazy.  Nice to see pro dunkers actually getting professional training and not thinking "I didn't do anything but jump all these years so these trainers don't know shit.  The secret is to just jump and dunk, fuck lifting"

T0ddday

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #2576 on: February 22, 2016, 06:01:46 am »
0
  There is this one PED called food and muscle that will do wonders for you.   

Where can you buy these?!

Also, Young Hollywood is crazy.  Nice to see pro dunkers actually getting professional training and not thinking "I didn't do anything but jump all these years so these trainers don't know shit.  The secret is to just jump and dunk, fuck lifting"

He might be the exception rather than the rule...  Hes turning 30 so I dont know if the moniker fits, he goes by haneef now.                 He has suffered some bad quadriceps tendon tendinosis, hopefully prp and proper rehab will get him going..  Dunking constantly under 6ft takes its toll on you...   He picks up information well and wants to learn training top to bottom.  His training for years consisted of dunking, low hoop dunking, weighted dunking and ab work which is actually quite a good formula he figured out on his own.  Really quite an elite athlete and gave me a lot of respect for a "sport" I havent really been fully respectful.  We had an athlete training next to him who is a projected top 10 nfl pick at WR...  that guy jumped 32" and 36" with zero technique so it really showed how high the best dunkers get...

T0ddday

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #2577 on: February 22, 2016, 06:06:34 am »
0
Off topic but... Young Hollywood can get his head higher than where i can get my fingertip  :wowthatwasnutswtf:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJNJ3JlLSbo" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJNJ3JlLSbo</a>

Must have been amazing to witness such a jump live.

Certainly humbling.  Im not usually the highest jumper when I jumper when I jump test athletes but Im always in the ballpark... someone who can get around a foot above your best jump is totally different story.  Interestingly we discussed plants and he jumps right left and learned left handed dunking for more versatility after failing to learn to opposite plant which has me convinced its a losing effort to switch plant legs...  he gave me a dunker nickname which was amusing lol

Mikey

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #2578 on: February 22, 2016, 06:30:52 am »
0
What was your nickname haha.

That would have been so cool seeing a dunking legend up live and personal. Being in Australia and not playing organised ball I rarely ever get to see any dunkers- there's a few guys around my height who can dunk, but they can't do tricks or anything. I play with a few Sudanese guys who can stick their elbows in the ring, but they are all 6'6+ with massive wingspans so their verticals are probably around 30 inches.
"IMO, It didn't happen if it's not on vid/official"- adarqui

It's easier to keep up than it is to catch up...

maxent

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chasing windmills (W1D1)
« Reply #2579 on: February 22, 2016, 07:38:44 am »
+1
BS 2x130 (LPR; 1.70827x multiplier --PR?), 6x102.5
BBall ~ 1hr (first decent bball session of 2016)
Dunks 3x5 (1 legit tomahawk .. low rim but)

BP 1x92.5, 5x85 (LPR), 9x77 (BWxreps PR)

BW: 76.1kg / 167.77lb (2016 PR)

Squat notes:
Repped ≥130kg for the first time since 29th January when i doubled 132.5kg. Also first time i've squatted ≥ 130kg since 5th Feb when I did a single at 132.5kg. The kicker? Today was supposed to be a light day but i had something to prove to myself and got the LPR. Feels good, i know i can end this cut doubling 132.5kg at which point i'll push it up aggressively to 135-140kg double which should bring me closer than i have ever been to a 2xbw BS. Fuck yeah.

Baskeball notes:
I dont care what anyone says .. the absolute best way to get in basketball shape is 1v1 against a variety of opponents. So that's what i did after we finished playing 3v3 for about half an hour. The quick small guard and long big guy athletic guy being ideal opponents 1v1. Today i played against the latter ... he was beating me like 6-1, i brought it back to like 3-6 or something (we were going for 11) .. but then he walked away for some reason. I'm not even saying he was a better basketball player. But he's young, long (6'2"-6'5" and in shape) and he solidly beat me cause he's in waaaaaay better shape. I love it. I love getting my ass handed to me in 1v1. Motivates me to get better and better until i can beat the opponent. Hope he's there next week too.

I played bball lowcarbed which is good cause with my obese insulin resistant ass it burns a tonne of bodyfat.. i finally remembered how good this shit is in getting me lean.. watch the fat melt way in these last 9 days!!

oh and dunking was aite, i got my first tomahawk which is an LPR. Good esp while lowcarbed, it's hard to do athletic shit like dunking when carb depleted so im happy with that. I felt it though, could only do sets of 5, was done before i could attempt my 6th rep which so settled for 3x5 instead of my goto 3x6.

Bench notes:
The 92.5kg flew up! I have long arms and am in the tail end of a long cut weighing 168 doing close grip bench press only benching 1x a week. Also thought it might be interesting to see how many reps i cud do with BW and got 9 but i didn't fail. I figure when i reach my goal bw i'll be able to do more which is promising that im on the right track.

« Last Edit: February 22, 2016, 10:39:44 am by maxent »
Training for sub 20 5K & 40" RVJ & 170kg BS @ 85kg bw. log entry template