Author Topic: chasing athleticism  (Read 939768 times)

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entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1155 on: September 02, 2013, 10:25:40 am »
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Also what can I do for upper body endurance? It occured to me that running was find for conditioning lower body. But in basketball your upper body needs to be well conditioned too otherwise you can't shoot/pass/rebound/etc well either when exhausted?

Long shooting/passing/dribbling practice sessions?


I've always found the best way to get in shape for basketball is to simply play ball.

Other than that make all your practice sessions/drills harder than a game situation and do them at 150% speed. Games will feel slower and you'll execute much better also.

I train alone, in a shitty outdoor court with low fence and no net. Have to chase the ball down a lot down the road if my shot is off (and i suck and the ball goes over a lot). Kind of hate that training. It's boring as shit and I don't seem to improve lol. But i'm going to try going to an indoor court 1-2x a week to practice properly. The other thing is, this isn't like in america, it's a fringe sport here, hard to find decent pickup games etc. If you play proper D people think it's weird. And then ppl who play recreationally don't really welcome newbies to their team because they have a team dynamic with friends and dont really want anyone. I've tried asking before. As it happens my actual team is in another city thousands of miles away and I only see them during contests. So i have to do all my preperation alone by myself. Not ideal.  But the level of competition in the tournament is high, we face really good teams with talented athletic players so it's an amazing chance and I really want us to win next year. So i'm going to train as hard as possible.

Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

Mikey

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1156 on: September 02, 2013, 11:26:04 am »
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There's this Aussie website called hoops.com.au
Sometimes people on there are looking out for players for social teams. It's mainly a South Australian based site but there are some people from NSW and Victoria as well looking for players. 
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T0ddday

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Re: chasing athleticism -- W1D1 (of W6D3 -- relative strength accumulation phase #1)
« Reply #1157 on: September 02, 2013, 11:45:36 am »
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Also what can I do for upper body endurance? It occured to me that running was find for conditioning lower body. But in basketball your upper body needs to be well conditioned too otherwise you can't shoot/pass/rebound/etc well either when exhausted?

Long shooting/passing/dribbling practice sessions?

For the most part you can't shoot/pass/rebound because your legs and whole body exhausted.... It's not usually specific lactate response in the upper body. 

Like the others said, actually playing basketball is of course the most specific to basketball endurance.   Aside from that interval running is all your need for general endurance.  At the end of interval sprints your shoulders, core, arms, etc are incredibly fatigued.  Running is not solely a lower body exercise.   IMO sprinters have a lot stronger shoulders than basketball players.   You could add in some calisthenics if you want to shift the focus to upper body.  A workout I like to make athletes do on the track is repeat 150m sprints with a 25 meter walk between sprints and then 10 pushups before each 150 starts.  If you can knock out 5 150's in this manner in a total time of less than 5 minutes.  Your in REALLY good shape upper and lower body.

ChrisM

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1158 on: September 02, 2013, 11:56:45 am »
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Right now I only do one training session per week to stay decently sharp and its always solo. Theres something about being out there alone and feeling like I'm improving when no one else is that feels good. That being said the key is to not let it get boring, always challenge yourself with varying drills, always practice for your game/gameplan, always 'overspeed' train and (again) don't get bored!

If you find your training boring switch it up because you'll lose focus and that's detrimental. Hoisting 1000 stationary jumpers will make you good at shooting spot up jumpers. Practice how you play. I try to keep my session at90 mins or less and train everything at once handles, moves and shot are each involved in every drill (sans warmups). I pick and choose my 'spots' that I normally get scoring opportunities and spend a majority of my time attacking those areas and spend a little time on other areas like post up scenarios just to round out my game.

Thats just what has worked for me but the few friends Ive trained have all noticed transformations in their games since training like this versus their 'normal' boring jack up a bunch of shots then work on handles then this type training.
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LBSS

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1159 on: September 02, 2013, 01:19:03 pm »
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for upper body endurance, try no-weight or very-light-DB overhead presses for SHITLOADS of reps. like do a set of 30, then rest 30s with your arms extended overhead, then do another set.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

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Coges

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1160 on: September 02, 2013, 07:44:02 pm »
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I train alone, in a shitty outdoor court with low fence and no net. Have to chase the ball down a lot down the road if my shot is off (and i suck and the ball goes over a lot). Kind of hate that training. It's boring as shit and I don't seem to improve lol. But i'm going to try going to an indoor court 1-2x a week to practice properly. The other thing is, this isn't like in america, it's a fringe sport here, hard to find decent pickup games etc. If you play proper D people think it's weird. And then ppl who play recreationally don't really welcome newbies to their team because they have a team dynamic with friends and dont really want anyone. I've tried asking before. As it happens my actual team is in another city thousands of miles away and I only see them during contests. So i have to do all my preperation alone by myself. Not ideal.  But the level of competition in the tournament is high, we face really good teams with talented athletic players so it's an amazing chance and I really want us to win next year. So i'm going to train as hard as possible.

Where do you live? I know you've mentioned it before but I can't remember. I play in the South East suburbs of Melbourne and we're looking for players. We have a lovely yellow uniform too and a name that will please if you ever watched Dragon ball Z (I inherited both the name and the uniform). Anyway if you're in Melbourne and want a game let me know.
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Coges

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1161 on: September 02, 2013, 07:53:18 pm »
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3. I'm way overfocusing on strength. I dont care about dunking, i'm not in it for the dunks or huge jumps. I wanted to be a good basketball player, which in my mind includes having excellent athleticism, true. But at this stage my skill deficit is much greater than my strength and power one. I need a lot more movement work specific to playing than I do with spending time in the gym. But. I don't like to give up on what I started, and i'm so close now to getting that minimal gold standard of 2xbw squats (FS and HBBS -- the latter for reps), that i will see it thru. I just need to slowly add back sports specific work so i'm ready for game time (~6-7 months from now).

4. As always i've neglected conditioning, it always seems to fall on the wayside. I know why it happens, sore legs don't help when you're focusing on pushing up squats. But whether I like it or not, it's just as important if not more important to have a big strong motor than raw power. I can play great defense. Or I can play great offense, but not both, because my conditioning didn't permit it last time.

IMO these are two great questions? When do you start incorporating these at the expense of what else you are trying to achieve? You could strength train endlessly without ever being ready to start conditioning or working skills let alone even playing basketball.

I see what you're getting at. I'll start today and do a little more each time. If I don't start working on it now it won't happen, so you're right, do something no matter how small or insignificant every chance I get. If I fail to, i'll make a note in the log for that day. Thanks.

I've always stuggled with this equation for fear of hindering my strength progress but as you have rightly said basketball is about more than dunks and jumps. Will be interesting to see how you work it in and how it affects your other training.
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entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1162 on: September 03, 2013, 12:59:05 am »
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There's this Aussie website called hoops.com.au
Sometimes people on there are looking out for players for social teams. It's mainly a South Australian based site but there are some people from NSW and Victoria as well looking for players.

Signed up. I had a look around for a search thing but there isn't one. Will have to go thru the threads on a slow day!

For the most part you can't shoot/pass/rebound because your legs and whole body exhausted.... It's not usually specific lactate response in the upper body. 

A workout I like to make athletes do on the track is repeat 150m sprints with a 25 meter walk between sprints and then 10 pushups before each 150 starts.  If you can knock out 5 150's in this manner in a total time of less than 5 minutes.  Your in REALLY good shape upper and lower body.

I'll work up to that. Had a look on google maps and the park is approx 150m wide from fence to fence. I'll have to figure out a way to do the walk (probably along the fence while resting) but shouldn't be a problem.

Right now I only do one training session per week to stay decently sharp and its always solo. Theres something about being out there alone and feeling like I'm improving when no one else is that feels good. That being said the key is to not let it get boring, always challenge yourself with varying drills, always practice for your game/gameplan, always 'overspeed' train and (again) don't get bored!

If you find your training boring switch it up because you'll lose focus and that's detrimental. Hoisting 1000 stationary jumpers will make you good at shooting spot up jumpers. Practice how you play. I try to keep my session at90 mins or less and train everything at once handles, moves and shot are each involved in every drill (sans warmups). I pick and choose my 'spots' that I normally get scoring opportunities and spend a majority of my time attacking those areas and spend a little time on other areas like post up scenarios just to round out my game.

Thats just what has worked for me but the few friends Ive trained have all noticed transformations in their games since training like this versus their 'normal' boring jack up a bunch of shots then work on handles then this type training.

I must admit that does sound pretty good and fun. I'll have to try it out.

for upper body endurance, try no-weight or very-light-DB overhead presses for SHITLOADS of reps. like do a set of 30, then rest 30s with your arms extended overhead, then do another set.

Will give that a go too.

I've always stuggled with this equation for fear of hindering my strength progress but as you have rightly said basketball is about more than dunks and jumps. Will be interesting to see how you work it in and how it affects your other training.

Same. I feel as though my strength is still priority #1 and it will remain so until i've reached my strength goals. Especially while dieting which imposes a recovery deficit. But once I have reached the strength goals (2xbw etc) i'll put strength on maintenance and focus mainly on basketball. It will be easier to train more widely when i've finished cutting because i'll be able to eat more food to help recovery (while maintaining bodyweight). In the meantime i'll work hard on general fitness and endurance. Can def do that while cutting, and it actually helps with fat loss as long as I don't get carried away. That's the challenge. I think last time I did minimal conditioning work, and just because my bodyweight was so light, I was able to fool myself into thinking I was fit. But i really wasn't, it was just easy to believe because it's effortless running as a light weight. I'm not making that mistake this time around, i've started while heavy, so gains in fitness will come steadily thru the next 6-7 months.

Also to answer your other question, I wish I lived in Melbourne and could take up your offer! That would have been perfect. That's where my team's from lol and I could attend their training sessions too but unfortunately I'm in the west coast.

Thanks guys!



Bodyweight: 198.42lb / 90kg
« Last Edit: September 03, 2013, 01:01:55 am by entropy »
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

Coges

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1163 on: September 03, 2013, 01:58:55 am »
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Ah no good. Shame you're all the way over there.

I'm sure you'll get some great benefits from the general fitness and endurance when it comes to converting it to more specific basketball fitness though.
"Train as hard as possible, as often as possible, while staying as fresh as possible"
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entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1164 on: September 03, 2013, 12:00:45 pm »
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Yep, check out LBSS's thread and join us!

Wanted to make a note that my glutes are sore for the first time. Not sure if it was kelly's screw feet in cue, or 4 rep FS set, or conditioning work. I don't think it's the last 2, cause I don't remember either of higher rep front squats nor running making my glutes sore. Running makes quads and hams sore, sure, but glutes i dont recall being sore. Perhaps kelly's cue is helping me recruit more glute out of the hole? It would reconcile with the strong bounce I was gettting.

Would like to explore the screw in cue more. Maybe for heavier backsquats and perhaps even front squats? The only downside as far as I can see is, it takes work away from quads. And. It costs me depth. The former I can live with, because I can add more weight to the bar and make up the work for quads. But depth does worry me, I dont want a huge amount of depth on BS but easy below parallel is a must. Maybe flexibility and WL shoes will solve that problem as well as giving more quad work? We'll see, more room to experiment there.
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

entropy

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chasing athleticism -- W1D2
« Reply #1165 on: September 04, 2013, 07:11:05 am »
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Training
FS  3x123.5, 3Fx129 (PR)
BS 2x127.5, 2x132.5

FS notes:
Misloaded the bar. Thought I had done 128.5kg for a triple but the L side was missing a 5kg plate. Which really pissed me off because I thought I had finally got myself unstuck. Then kinda angrily loaded 129 and failed the 3rd as usual. Probably would have got 3x128.5 today otherwise. Next week i'll only attempt a 3RM on wednesday. I'm not getting stronger from these failed sets. They're actually doing nothing for me, just testing strength instead of building it. Should do more reps to build strength, will do that next week, just testing a 3rm every time isn't working anymore. The easy ride provided by backsquat has run it's course now I have to actively work on working on my FS to progress further!

BS notes:
Blah. Wanted a 5PR and a 6PR, neither was possible today.

Terrible session, cut it short and decided to call it a day. Didnt help the air was choked thick with the stench of a freshly manured garden. Hope it rains and clears up for friday I have lost ground to make up.
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

vag

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Re: chasing athleticism -- W1D2
« Reply #1166 on: September 04, 2013, 08:13:37 am »
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I'm not getting stronger from these failed sets. They're actually doing nothing for me, just testing strength instead of building it. Should do more reps to build strength, will do that next week, just testing a 3rm every time isn't working anymore.

+100
Target training paces (min/km), calculated from 5K PR 22:49 :
Easy run : 5:48
Tempo run : 4:50
VO2-max run :4:21
Speed form run : 4:02

---

it's the biggest trick in the run game.. go slow to go fast. it doesn't make sense until it smacks you in the face and you're like ....... wtf?

Joe

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Re: chasing athleticism -- W1D2
« Reply #1167 on: September 04, 2013, 08:38:28 am »
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I'm not getting stronger from these failed sets. They're actually doing nothing for me, just testing strength instead of building it. Should do more reps to build strength, will do that next week, just testing a 3rm every time isn't working anymore.

+100

I'm pretty sure I read an interview with Dan Green in which he said that he hasn't missed a rep in training for almost a year.
"i threaten to kill myself whenever my parnets tell me to get a job" - bjpenn

entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1168 on: September 05, 2013, 01:30:13 am »
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<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-KUHGKcsD0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-KUHGKcsD0</a>

Joe, LBBS, acole etc, all you guys who read K*, i've found an actual competitive lifter who practices the K* method without the nauseating crossfit faggotry. Strong dude. Squats athletic as well. Impressive.
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

LBSS

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1169 on: September 05, 2013, 09:08:32 am »
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see now those GHRs would not pass the alexv test. hips first, torso follows.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

black lives matter