Author Topic: chasing athleticism  (Read 939977 times)

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entropy

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chasing athleticism -- RSR2-W5D2
« Reply #1500 on: January 08, 2014, 07:18:14 am »
0
Training
BS 3x3x155 (PR)
CR 2x15x195 (PR)
BP 6x60, 6x70, 6x77.5, 6x72.5 (paused, PR)
JUMPZ 2x3xLR

FS notes:
Just warmups up to a double of 125kg. Heavy warmup single omitted on account of BS rx workload for the day.

BS notes:
Absolutely damn heavy.  First set with velcro, last 2 with leather belt. I have no business repping anything over 150kg. My body just isn't build for that shit. I did it anyway because of the written program rx but i don't think it agrees with me. I'd rather make up the volume by doing more sets than repeating this scheme again. In future runs of RSR i'll do it my way.

CR notes:
Came pretty close to losing my balance and toppling forwards on rep 2 of the first set. I dunno what happened, it was too freaky. How are you supposed to train calves heavy with a barbell without dying?! Have to think of a better way this is too unsafe. I might start doing a lighter warmup set of around 180kg first..

Jumps notes:
I might jus do a seperate post for this since it might get a bit long w/ video.


I wasn't planning to but i'll do pressing today so i have less to stuff to do on friday, allowing more recover time for the final assault on RSR which begins monday. After wrapping up RSR2, I'm putting squat obsession on a hold while i bring up my GPP and SPP (basketball)! Doesn't mean i won't stop squatting, or even keep pushing my squat up, but that it won't be the main focus anymore. I'll write a proper plan when i'm done next week.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2014, 08:45:08 am by entropy »
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism (continued RSR2W5D2) -- Experimenting with LR plants!
« Reply #1501 on: January 08, 2014, 09:09:02 am »
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I started with LR plant from the R side of the rim with my L hand. The first 10 or so jumps were very awkward. Initially i was just doing layups and even those were challenging lol. But gradually as familiarity set in, I become accustomed to getting a bit more out of the jump and my hand got closer to the rim with each attempt.  It took a dozen attempts before i got my first legit LR plant dunk!

To start with i found the mechanics with dribblign the ball too much to handle at once, so i didn't worry bout dribbling or taking a proper off-the-block drop step approach. I remembered T0DY's advice to earn every step and not advance to N+1 steps until i'd mastered N first. This helped.

I found it confusing at first trying to remember all the advice provided. Different plant sure, but different hand too? Or was i supposed to do only one of those? In any event switching hands was much much much more difficult task than plants. Plants came easier.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPY4HOnD_78" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPY4HOnD_78</a>
(if it's too dark please wait. it might take some more processing time while it runs a lowlight filter, thanks for your patience!)
 
I have video but unfortunately the lighting is terrible. Eventually i'll record indoors with better lighting. If you watch it, the first 11 are misses from the R side. The 12 and 13th i land my first 2. Then switched to L side of rim. And i couldn't remember if i was supposed to change plants here or keep my usual RL one?  I just went with RL plant on these but it's possible i got everything upside down of what i was supposed to do?!

From here do i just keep practising LR plant until it's really strong or do i have to worry about dunking with my R hand too? cause i'm not too keen on that just yet since it's a bit too much all at once. Can i please have a clarification for what I should be drilling for next time i jump. Which plant from which side? And is it with L hand for all? Thanks.

« Last Edit: January 08, 2014, 09:50:45 am by entropy »
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T0ddday

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Re: chasing athleticism -- RSR2-W5D2
« Reply #1502 on: January 08, 2014, 09:46:28 am »
0

Training
BS 3x3x155 (PR)
CR 2x15x195 (PR)
BP 6x60, 6x70, 6x77.5, 6x72.5 (paused, PR)
JUMPZ 2x3xLR

Glad to see you putting the time to program jumps in...   Remember, jumping is not merely a test to see if you have improved but a training tool as well - LBSS can attest to that.  Although, when you jump volume is lower than your squat volume you know you are not jumping enough!  Still you know your body so ease into it.   Soon you will be ready for single leg bounds!

Quote

I wasn't planning to but i'll do pressing today so i have less to stuff to do on friday, allowing more recover time for the final assault on RSR which begins monday. After wrapping up RSR2, I'm putting squat obsession on a hold while i bring up my GPP and SPP (basketball)! Doesn't mean i won't stop squatting, or even keep pushing my squat up, but that it won't be the main focus anymore. I'll write a proper plan when i'm done next week.

I can't tell you how many times I have seen gains actually accelerate when you put your obsession on hold...  Training's funny like that!  The gains seem to come from the obsessed period... but seem to be somewhat refractory during the obsession.  I expect big things from you!

T0ddday

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Re: chasing athleticism (continued RSR2W5D2) -- Experimenting with LR plants!
« Reply #1503 on: January 08, 2014, 10:03:40 am »
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From here do i just keep practising LR plant until it's really strong or do i have to worry about dunking with my R hand too? cause i'm not too keen on that just yet since it's a bit too much all at once. Can i please have a clarification for what I should be drilling for next time i jump. Which plant from which side? And is it with L hand for all? Thanks.

Nice too see improvement during the video.  It would take me about 1000x more reps to get my bad plant anywhere near my good one.   

As far as what you need to keep in your head for practice time.  Optimal plant for body position and thus dunking a basketball (or spiking a volleyball - ie hips opened up to target) is always an alternating plant LRL or RLR where LRL means left leg, then right leg, then left hand.   As far as which to practice it depends on what your concern is.  If you are only concerned with dunking you practice whichever is easier - depending on whether you are more ambidextrous or better at alternating plant legs.   In Vag's case he found that despite being right hand dominant he had an easier to getting LRL down than trying to learn RLR.   If he was REALLY right hand dominant (and maybe not so mechanically proficient at his plant) maybe he would have been able to get RLR. 

In your case however... You get to do them all!  Since you want to be an in-game dunker you should work on LRL and RLR and LRR and RLL.   Work on getting the plant powerful from a big-step lead in (what you are doing now) and a hopped pre-penultimate (best IMO) and a turn-around step. 

I actually think its a really good sign that you are confused about which plants/hands/etc.  And it's good that you switched plants so fast...   It means you are not that good at planting to begin with!  I better jumper would clearly be able to tell which plant/hand is optimal and have a hard time doing anything else...   What that means is that you have a lot of inches yet to gain just by getting better at jumping.

Another thing I would recommend you doing is some actual maximum jumps.   Get a target that you can touch or almost touch (head to backboard or the pole behind the backboard - something close to 11 feet in your case) and get reps in jumping toward this object.  This won't help in game dunking (except for fabulous alley-oops) but this will really help you get plant and arm mechanics down.   Get reps in toward the end of your dunk session in.   A jump/dunk session could look something like this:

10-20 vertical jumps
5-10   no-reload vertical
10       standing left/right verticals
2x10  repetitive jumps (jump land jump)
1x10  for all single step plant jumps/dunks
3x5    single leg running verticals jumps/dunks
3x3    maximum running vertical

log everything.  get better at all.




entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1504 on: January 08, 2014, 11:48:27 am »
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Thanks so much! With jumping, a little bit goes a long way for me especially at this stage when my bodyweight is much higher than it should be and too much volume risks injury. In the past i've observed I don't have to jump as much or as often as others here to get improvements. I can even go weeks even over a month without jumping and still maintain or improve. I never figured out why this is, just that my squat seems to be strongly tied to my jumping. But i have so much new to learn with jumping now, i'll definitely have to increase the workload as I go along.

As far as what you need to keep in your head for practice time.  Optimal plant for body position and thus dunking a basketball (or spiking a volleyball - ie hips opened up to target) is always an alternating plant LRL or RLR where LRL means left leg, then right leg, then left hand.   

In your case however... You get to do them all!  Since you want to be an in-game dunker you should work on LRL and RLR and LRR and RLL.   Work on getting the plant powerful from a big-step lead in (what you are doing now) and a hopped pre-penultimate (best IMO) and a turn-around step. 

Understood. I'll drill all of them. That takes the confusion out since i have to do everything haha.

Quote
I actually think its a really good sign that you are confused about which plants/hands/etc.  And it's good that you switched plants so fast...   It means you are not that good at planting to begin with!  I better jumper would clearly be able to tell which plant/hand is optimal and have a hard time doing anything else...   What that means is that you have a lot of inches yet to gain just by getting better at jumping.

I didn't know it until you guys put me onto thinking about plants but i've only just realised this is about giving yourself the flexibility to plant in such a manner that you are able to position yourself according to the defense. If you can only dunk with one kind of plant with only one hand from only one side of the rim then you can only do that dunk very rarely when that chance arises. But if you can do a whole variety of plants and hands then you pick your space and dunk depending on the opponents position. It opens up a greater number of opportunities. This is awesome! I see what you were getting at now :)

Quote
Another thing I would recommend you doing is some actual maximum jumps.   Get a target that you can touch or almost touch (head to backboard or the pole behind the backboard - something close to 11 feet in your case) and get reps in jumping toward this object.  This won't help in game dunking (except for fabulous alley-oops) but this will really help you get plant and arm mechanics down.   Get reps in toward the end of your dunk session in.

I actually already have the perfect target, it's in my sig. A 36" leap for me corresponds to touching the top of the small backboard square. That's my macro goal! so training with it is actually totally amenable and i'll work that in my jump sessions.

Quote
A jump/dunk session could look something like this:

10-20 vertical jumps
5-10   no-reload vertical
10       standing left/right verticals
2x10  repetitive jumps (jump land jump)
1x10  for all single step plant jumps/dunks
3x5    single leg running verticals jumps/dunks
3x3    maximum running vertical

log everything.  get better at all.

Looks nice. What's no-reload vertical btw? standing L/R verticals means with SVJ jumps with L hand and then R hand? is the repetitive jumps what i think people call pogos?

I can't tell you how many times I have seen gains actually accelerate when you put your obsession on hold...  Training's funny like that!  The gains seem to come from the obsessed period... but seem to be somewhat refractory during the obsession.  I expect big things from you!

Thank you. it means a lot to hear that from you! The best thing about this is since my team is from Melbourne, I only see them a few times a year, the last time was last year June; so next time i see them (mid-late april) for a big annual tournament, i'll be a lot stronger, fitter, leaner, more athletic and have a variety of new moves. I can't wait, i'm aiming for that most improved player label :)
« Last Edit: January 08, 2014, 11:58:33 am by entropy »
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

LBSS

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1505 on: January 08, 2014, 12:05:40 pm »
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a 36" leap for me corresponds to me getting all but an inch of my palm over the rim. sing again the sad song of the average of height.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

black lives matter

T0ddday

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1506 on: January 08, 2014, 02:22:49 pm »
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Thanks so much! With jumping, a little bit goes a long way for me especially at this stage when my bodyweight is much higher than it should be and too much volume risks injury. In the past i've observed I don't have to jump as much or as often as others here to get improvements. I can even go weeks even over a month without jumping and still maintain or improve. I never figured out why this is, just that my squat seems to be strongly tied to my jumping. But i have so much new to learn with jumping now, i'll definitely have to increase the workload as I go along.

It's because you are a poor jumper.   That is a good thing though.  If you develop your optimal plant and become proficient in the running two footed jump then you will notice it won't improve anymore if you go a month without jumping no matter what happens to your squat.   You have essentially saved this up... but it's time to stop saving it up because you will start to plataue hard if you think you can still bump your squat up and jump 34'' then 36'' then 38'', etc.   Works great for 24'',26'',28'' but jump specific work is what's going to carry the improvement in the 30''s.

However... you are somewhat right about high volume jumping and injury.  You are somewhat safe because you are not super proficient at your approach jump but I totally agree that high volume maximal running vertical jumps off two feet at a high bodyweight is just asking for injury.   Your danger level is dependent on your bodyweight and proficiency.  For example if your standing vertical is 26'' and your drop step vertical is 28'' but your running two footed maximal vertical is 36'' then you are getting those extra inches with a huge amount of torque and stopping force on the second leg of the plant...   Jumpers knee will follow, especially if you are heavy.   

The solution is to do a three things...

1)   Decrease the volume of maximum effort running vertical jumps as you get more proficient.  Think almost of it as a reward... Like if you finish your jumping workout and your feeling good then you will get a good static hip-flexor stretch in, lace up those kicks, and allow yourself to get 3-5 earnest all out efforts to touch the top of the square...    If you almost get it your last attempt you don't get to keep trying and muscling your way to the goal.   Also if you feel any knee pain before and after... shut this part down. Have to be zen about this. 

2)  Don't neglect standing vertical jumps.  Unless you are already injured or have serious strength or mobility issues standing vertical jumps are actually really safe.  Boring but safe as long as you have safe controlled landings.  At your height you can even make them even safer by standing below the rim, jumping up and grabbing it with two hands, and then hanging completely (can even grab the net) so that you don't ever drop from more than 20 inches.   

3) Use submax work to practice approach technique.  You can mix it into basketball skill.  Something practicing spin move to submax jump to dunk ( which is basically a single turning plant ) or if that's difficult you could do practice hard dribble, gather, rim height finger roll.  You have to be careful here obviously but neglecting everything but standing vertical jumps is probably not best... you just want to mix in approach jumps using just enough intensity to not risk injury. 

Quote
A jump/dunk session could look something like this:

10-20 vertical jumps
5-10   no-reload vertical
10       standing left/right verticals
2x10  repetitive jumps (jump land jump)
1x10  for all single step plant jumps/dunks
3x5    single leg running verticals jumps/dunks
3x3    maximum running vertical

log everything.  get better at all.

Looks nice. What's no-reload vertical btw? standing L/R verticals means with SVJ jumps with L hand and then R hand? is the repetitive jumps what i think people call pogos?


A no-reload is something I took from track.  Basically squat to your jump depth with your hands up.  On someones command (or your own) jump as high as you can.  Great submax drill.  Correct about pogos.  Standing L/R vertical means stand on below rim.  Lift your right foot off the ground and jump off only your left foot to touch the rim.  Also, a relatively safe sub-max drill.   Will also allow you test bilateral deficit.  I have a 28'' vertical using JUST my left foot.  But I'm well under 24'' when standing on my right.  My right leg sucks so much it's depressing.   

entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1507 on: January 09, 2014, 02:15:21 am »
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Injury (day after)
FML, I couldn't even get thru the first week of 2014 before picking up my first injury. I strained my intercostal thing again, but this time it's on the left side not the usual R side it usually happens. It's bad, but it's not too bad, i've had worse. I am fairly sure I did it while squatting too, on that last set of 3 where i forced the 3rd rep because the program required 3. Trying to remember how to deal with this thing, i have to stop doing upper body work and... probably lay off training for a while. It's only been less than 2 months since i last had this injury on my R side and i was just starting to recover from it and get back into normal training again. Bother.

Update (next day)
This is getting better really quickly. I feel less that it was intercostals and more thinking it was my left pec. I might have strained or teared it a bit :/ This is not good cause these things can get very chronic. Honestly, who tears a pec while squatting? Apparently just me, i've done it so many times. Question is, i'm scheduled to train today, a light day for squats. Obviously i will have to be really clever about this and aim to be healed and ready for mondays heavy day.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2014, 01:21:33 am by entropy »
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

entropy

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chasing athleticism -- RSR2-W5D3
« Reply #1508 on: January 10, 2014, 08:05:32 am »
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Training
BS 6x2x130

FS notes:
Just warmups to 125kg double again.

BS notes:
Not sure why i call these a light day when it's so challenging. It's ridiculous that i've done 4 sets of 6 with 130kg in wk3 and yet 6 doubles feels so hard right now in wk5!

As noted above, i'm dealing with an injured left pec right now. I was careful not to bother it and skipped chinups because i know that will disrupt healing. Squatting was totally fine. I had severe inclement soreness in my R hip flexor which is unusual, as was the novel abdominal soreness i got after wednesdays 3x3x150kg squats. Had some lower back soreness also but nothing major, i'd say about 4/10 where 8 is pretty severe. So week 5 comes to an end. Next week i wrap up RSR2!



Time to drown myself in protein and nutrients as I try to heal this thing up in time for mondays  heavy double doubles. I am ambitious and thinking i might put on 165kg for the first set with velcro and if i get it, 167.5kg for the 2nd with the leather belt. Will see how I feel on the day. If strong and fresh then the latter, otherwise stick to rx and pray for the best.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2014, 08:11:23 am by entropy »
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1509 on: January 10, 2014, 11:32:15 am »
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I wonder if I could attribute the R hip flexor soreness to trying LR plant jumps for the first time? That would certainly be interesting if true.

I also forgot to mention, today I used a pvc pipe on the back of my neck muscles trying to remove tightness around the chest.  My neck is so free and effortless to throw my head up now, it feels a bit strange, like i am bobble head doll. I am used to way more resistance! I should do more mobility work for my upper body my shoulders and chest aren't very mobile right now. I used to do mobility for my neck traps all the time, but ever since i wrapped my (thin) PVC in a towel for rolling my lower back, i haven't used it for neck. Now i think i need to do better for 2014, I will get a proper PVC pipe setup - a dbigger diameter pipe dedicated for my back and legs. And use the thin one for neck and traps. I also wanna get a thin steel pipe for my calves, i used to have one, dunno where it went. Anyway just something to remember for next week.

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LBSS

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1510 on: January 10, 2014, 11:48:51 am »
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resistance bands are awesome for that, too. i do a set of shoulder dislocations and my neck is twice as loose after.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

black lives matter

entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1511 on: January 10, 2014, 11:55:19 am »
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resistance bands are awesome for that, too. i do a set of shoulder dislocations and my neck is twice as loose after.

Oh yep, if what you're describing is what I call back and forths where the band touches your abs then lower back and so forth. I do those daily as a staple but i'm weary of doing them right now in case they bother my chest during the movement. Although i did one set very tenderly earlier too. I don't find it does anything for my neck though! PVC worked quite like magic. I'm kicking myself for being so lazy and not unwrapping my towel-wrapped-pvc one even though it's a hassle re-rolling it again.
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entropy

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chasing athleticism -- RSR2-W6D1
« Reply #1512 on: January 13, 2014, 08:37:21 am »
+2
Training
FS 1x142.5 (PR)
BS 2x165 (PR), 1x167.5 (PR)

FS notes:
Last thing i wanted to do today was fuck around with front squats. And yet if i didn't FS today, the next time i could fs heavy would be friday, which would put like 10 days btw heavy fses -- that's not good. Well i decided to try for a PR and got one but i'm regretting not fs heavy. This is the first time since RSR1 that i've put 3 plates on for fronts -- i was using 137.5kg + change but that's much easier than having 3x20kgs per side obviously. A bit of a reality check, this was challenging so i haven't really done much for my front squats out of RSR2 :/ Maybe it was just a bad day though.

BS notes:
I felt strongish on warmups but couldn't get a beltless HB PR of 157.5kg which I failed. Rx was 2x2x162.5kg. I tried for 165kg and it was a limit double. Decided to do the rest of the reps as singles, PRd 167.5kg and then failed 165kg at which point i decided to call it a night.

So now rest up for friday when I get to test my maxes... and .. finish up with RSR2 and focus training around basketball.
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Raptor

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1513 on: January 13, 2014, 12:44:57 pm »
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Damn, you're going so strong lately.

entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1514 on: January 14, 2014, 11:47:38 am »
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Damn, you're going so strong lately.

Lol nah. Just newbie gains for posterior chain which was long neglected in training. Thanks though.

Question for the forum - ways to train quads ability to absorb forces? I'm thinking it is a weak point of mine.
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat