Author Topic: TRAINING POSTS  (Read 11219 times)

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pelham32

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Re: TRAINING POSTS
« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2012, 08:28:08 pm »
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So are you saying two cns intensive days before the hypertrophy day and then it repeats. So kinda 3 on 1 off 3 on 1 off? Or could it be done like this?.. Good insight on the blog post, helped me put some things In perspective in my training.
Goal

windmill consistently/ touch top of the square consistently



weight= 193
height= 6'3 1/2
highest touch= top of the square, which is 11'4

LanceSTS

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Re: TRAINING POSTS
« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2012, 09:26:50 pm »
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So are you saying two cns intensive days before the hypertrophy day and then it repeats. So kinda 3 on 1 off 3 on 1 off? Or could it be done like this?.. Good insight on the blog post, helped me put some things In perspective in my training.

Not 3 consecutive training days, something like  Mon- CNS high intensive/  tues- rest/  weds- CNS high intensive/ thurs- rest,/ friday - hypertrophy focus/, sat and sun off. etc.  Many different ways to do this, and you can do it with 2 days a week as well, the rotation only takes a little longer.
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vag

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Re: TRAINING POSTS
« Reply #17 on: August 29, 2012, 04:26:45 am »
+1
I like this approach A LOT, thanks for posting!
I will stick with my SS scheme for a while to build up my limit strength and then i am doing this.
woot

LanceSTS

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Re: TRAINING POSTS
« Reply #18 on: August 29, 2012, 04:47:22 am »
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I like this approach A LOT, thanks for posting!
I will stick with my SS scheme for a while to build up my limit strength and then i am doing this.


thanks Vag, glad you found it helpful.
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Raptor

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Re: TRAINING POSTS
« Reply #19 on: August 29, 2012, 04:52:39 am »
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I like this approach A LOT, thanks for posting!
I will stick with my SS scheme for a while to build up my limit strength and then i am doing this.


Yeah I know, I was thinking the same when I first read it (and I'm still considering it :P)

Raptor

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Re: TRAINING POSTS
« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2012, 03:29:39 pm »
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So you recommend say a 3x5, 3x5 and 3x8 (for example) format of squatting?

 What I have found works best over time is working up to a heavy single or triple for 3 sets on one day, preferably the first day.  Then working up to a single max set of 5 the second training day.  

The last training day would be 4 x 8-10, where load is increased once you complete 4 x 10 across.  If youre only training 2x a week then you simply to workout 1, workout 2, workout 3, in order on whatever day they may fall, taking an extra day of rest after workout 3.

So you're saying this:

3x1 or 3x3 very heavy in the first workout
Work up to a 1x5 in the second workout
4x10 in the 3rd?

Or is the middle 1x5 a MSEM as well? So it's actually a 5x1 instead of a 1x5? (5 sets x 1 rep instead of 1 set of 5 reps)?

Also, what do you think of going with a speed oriented CNS intensive workout in the middle workout (the second one) instead of going for heavy weight there too?

Like this:

WO1: CNS intensive strength 3x3
WO2: CNS intensive speed 5x3 explosive half squats/power cleans/power snatches/1-2 jump squats (you might even consider depth jumps here as well IMO)
WO3: Hypertrophy 4x10

I'm looking through my log now and I see I was doing really well when I was doing 1x5+2x8 in the same workout. So I was doing something like 135x5 and then backing off to 115x8+110x8. You said not to do them both rep ranges in the same workout (cns intensive and hypertrophy oriented) but I was doing pretty good back then. Of course the question is - maybe I would have done even better if I had not been doing them both in the same workout.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2012, 03:32:22 pm by Raptor »

LanceSTS

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Re: TRAINING POSTS
« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2012, 08:15:46 pm »
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So you're saying this:

3x1 or 3x3 very heavy in the first workout
Work up to a 1x5 in the second workout
4x10 in the 3rd?


 The numbers can vary but thats one way to do it.


Quote
Or is the middle 1x5 a MSEM as well? So it's actually a 5x1 instead of a 1x5? (5 sets x 1 rep instead of 1 set of 5 reps)?

No, it is a single set of 5 reps, with ramped sets leading to it in low reps.


Quote
Also, what do you think of going with a speed oriented CNS intensive workout in the middle workout (the second one) instead of going for heavy weight there too?

I dont believe those exercises are NEAR as cns intensive as heavy loading. In fact, doing a session of nothing but explosives is a good way to help RECOVERY.   They can (and its a good idea to) be added to in the first portion of each workout, with conservative volume. 


Quote
Like this:

WO1: CNS intensive strength 3x3
WO2: CNS intensive speed 5x3 explosive half squats/power cleans/power snatches/1-2 jump squats (you might even consider depth jumps here as well IMO)
WO3: Hypertrophy 4x10

I'm looking through my log now and I see I was doing really well when I was doing 1x5+2x8 in the same workout. So I was doing something like 135x5 and then backing off to 115x8+110x8. You said not to do them both rep ranges in the same workout (cns intensive and hypertrophy oriented) but I was doing pretty good back then. Of course the question is - maybe I would have done even better if I had not been doing them both in the same workout.

 I mean dont do them both in the same workout, without taking into account the recovery costs of each one and how each session will affect the next one.  If you were training very infrequently, you could do both in the same session every workout and be fine.  Still wouldnt be OPTIMAL though.
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Raptor

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Re: TRAINING POSTS
« Reply #22 on: September 02, 2012, 06:39:00 am »
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Then if I'm more into hypertrophy that what this protocol is originally made up for, I could do a 1x5 and 2x8 in the 2nd workout since I'm going for 4x10 for hypertrophy in the 3rd one anyway I guess.

Raptor

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Re: TRAINING POSTS
« Reply #23 on: September 02, 2012, 02:42:39 pm »
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Also, for the 2nd workout you might also go with this:

Quote
Let's say you're doing squats and you want to hit one money set for somewhere between 5-10 reps. Your last workout you did 250 for 6 reps and you want to improve upon that number. Your entire squat workout might look like this:

45 lbs x 10
135 x 5
185 x 5
225 x 5
250 x 8 reps (or as many reps as possible)

The idea is you do enough warm-up or build up sets to get fully prepared for that one maximal run at a PR. If you felt you had more in the tank you might give another run at that 250. Also, notice how there are several warmup sets but the reps are kept lower to avoid excessive fatigue from building up.

Would that be the only thing you did that workout? Typically not. You might do one or 2 more money sets of a different exercise and you could even add some submaximal assistance volume work, but the rest of the workout wouldn't really count towards your progress one way or the other. It's the money set(s) that count.

http://www.higher-faster-sports.com/setsandreps.html

What do you think?

LanceSTS

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Re: TRAINING POSTS
« Reply #24 on: September 02, 2012, 04:34:01 pm »
+1

  I think youre asking questions that I already answered. 
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Kingfish

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Re: TRAINING POSTS
« Reply #25 on: September 02, 2012, 06:28:44 pm »
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lance, my (squat) idea of hypertrophy at this time is a x12-20 rep/set of 2-4clusters (45-90sec reset), after my dynamic warmup with the loaded squats(x1-2rep up to top single at 405)..

- using 75%RM+, anything that is 6+reps becomes dependent on the back muscles being able to keep me upright.
- these resets are pretty good in getting my back muscles fresh for more reps.
- if my back muscles get beat.. i'm useless. i'm still jello from the 495 smith calfs i did a few days back.  :uhhhfacepalm:

sounds like a muscle building plan or is there a better option for my routine at this time?.. squats have to be on a daily schedule. i'm too lazy learning coordination again if i skip a day.





5'10" | 202bs | 36 yrs
reach - 7'8" (92") |paused full squat - 475x1| standing VJ - 40"|

That which that does not kill us, makes us stronger.
- Friedrich Nietzsche

Daily Squats Day 1 - Aug 30, 2011 and still going.

LanceSTS

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Re: TRAINING POSTS
« Reply #26 on: September 02, 2012, 07:21:33 pm »
+1
lance, my (squat) idea of hypertrophy at this time is a x12-20 rep/set of 2-4clusters (45-90sec reset), after my dynamic warmup with the loaded squats(x1-2rep up to top single at 405)..

- using 75%RM+, anything that is 6+reps becomes dependent on the back muscles being able to keep me upright.
- these resets are pretty good in getting my back muscles fresh for more reps.
- if my back muscles get beat.. i'm useless. i'm still jello from the 495 smith calfs i did a few days back.  :uhhhfacepalm:

sounds like a muscle building plan or is there a better option for my routine at this time?.. squats have to be on a daily schedule. i'm too lazy learning coordination again if i skip a day.








 First thing I would kf is stop squatting every day, and go every other day.  Not 3 x a week, every other day.  I know you dont want to do that, but I would bet you will PR after a week or so of doing so.  You also have to ask yourself why youre squatting daily.  Is it to improve strength/hypertrophy, or is it due to the fact you like to go in daily and squat. If you did your upper/accessory work on your days you didnt squat, and still squatted every other day, you are still going to the gym daily.


 IF youre going to squat every day, you HAVE to increase LOAD, and if youre not increasing it at the least monthly, something is wrong.  Regardless of the goal (hypertrophy/strength), a progression of LOAD over a reasonable amount of time will determine the effectiveness of the program in the end. 

 To answer your set up there, the only way I have ever seen daily or high frequency set ups work with reps over 2-3, is when there is a SINGLE max rep set of that day.  You can set a cap on it at 8,10,etc., but work up to ONE SET, then STOP.  I would also alternate sessions of working up to a daily max (heavy) double, and working up to a daily max rep 4+ set. 

 bottom line is the one good thing youve done is trained your work capacity up to a high level.  Now if you were to switch to an every other day squatting set up, you can capitalize on that big time.  Increase load one way or another though, and in a quick like fashion, even if it is 5 pounds, or a single extra rep. Without that nothing will work for long.
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Kingfish

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Re: TRAINING POSTS
« Reply #27 on: September 02, 2012, 09:16:14 pm »
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thanks lance.

2x a day to every other day.. i might need some rehab to get out of my addiction for that.. :P

my goal is repeatable 2.6BW paused rep squat peak 1-2x/week.. i will take your advice lance but will gradually let go first.. i will still lift daily but will cut the "no-squat" days to a max of sub 385s.. anything with 385 and heavier is a squat day. 365 and under is just a regular training day.

i'm probably training in circles right now.. no problem IMO.. circles kinda boss already anyway for jumping purposes.:wowthatwasnutswtf:





 
5'10" | 202bs | 36 yrs
reach - 7'8" (92") |paused full squat - 475x1| standing VJ - 40"|

That which that does not kill us, makes us stronger.
- Friedrich Nietzsche

Daily Squats Day 1 - Aug 30, 2011 and still going.

LanceSTS

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Re: TRAINING POSTS
« Reply #28 on: September 02, 2012, 10:32:51 pm »
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thanks lance.

2x a day to every other day.. i might need some rehab to get out of my addiction for that.. :P

my goal is repeatable 2.6BW paused rep squat peak 1-2x/week.. i will take your advice lance but will gradually let go first.. i will still lift daily but will cut the "no-squat" days to a max of sub 385s.. anything with 385 and heavier is a squat day. 365 and under is just a regular training day.

i'm probably training in circles right now.. no problem IMO.. circles kinda boss already anyway for jumping purposes.:wowthatwasnutswtf:





 

 I understand man, trust me> Im the EXACT same way, I get addicted to TRAINING, and not PROGRESSION, and it always wastes time.  The good thing is once you let up a little youll notice that your recovery is awesome and you start to hit PR's regularly.  It will take a week or so and watch this happen.
Relax.

Raptor

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Re: TRAINING POSTS
« Reply #29 on: September 25, 2012, 03:25:33 pm »
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What do you feel about alternating a MSEM workout with a volume workout (say 4x10 or 8x5) every 3 days or so?

I feel like there's no need to do 1x5 or 3x5 because it's not at the either end of the spectrum - it's neither CNS intensive nor it is a volume workout, so I personally ditched it and use a 8x1 one day and a 8x5 the other day.

What are your thoughts on the 1x5 day? I'd rather do an explosive workout in that day.