Author Topic: placement of bar on squats  (Read 4152 times)

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PointerRyan

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placement of bar on squats
« on: January 19, 2011, 08:22:58 pm »
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Hey, i've posted on the article video discussion page about placement of barbell during squats, and havent got a reply there, so was thinking of asking you guys. anyways, i'll copy and paste it.

Hey , as the title says, i have come across this article :
http://doubleyourgains.com/getting-the-bar-position-and-your-hands-right-with-back-squats

Well, I certainly have problem squating, i think i'm doing a high bar squats. Thats because i dont have much muscle on my upper back.

Just imagine a shrot skinny guy with little muscle. the only muscle i can see my self have is a little of this muscle( i guess everyone who never workout has this too when they shrug their shoudlers back)
 : http://www.exrx.net/Muscles/TrapeziusMiddle.html

So basically, is the article correct? cause It sounds good to me, especially the one part where they say size has a lot to do with it.

So if i have little muscle on my upper back, am i suppose to squat high bar?

I'll try to get a photo or vid of my current squat form and where i put the barbell on.

Anyways, my main question, does the bar bell rest on  this muscle( http://www.exrx.net/Muscles/TrapeziusLower.html) during lwo bar squats, or this muscle( http://www.exrx.net/Muscles/TrapeziusMiddle.html).

EDIT: oh yh , i place the bar on my middle fibers, somewhree there, where the bar is liek roughyl on top of the posterior deltoid
. thats high bar if im not wrong? If i tried lwoering the bar summore ,it is kidna uncomfortable and feels liek the bar is gonan drop off my back.

i place the bar like the dude in this pic:



thats all

and chao

LanceSTS

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Re: placement of bar on squats
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2011, 12:31:45 am »
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  Im not going to read those articles man, but bar placement is really easy, for the high bar squat find a place between the middle and lower part of the traps and it will be much more comfortable.  For the low bar squat the bar goes across the rear delts, mark rippetoe has several youtube videos on how to attain this position.  Play around with your grip until you find a comfortable one, I would imagine at your size going closer would fit you better and allow you to stay tighter with more cushion to put the bar on.  If its still bothers you too badly then wrap a towel around the bar or use a small bar pad, just dont get a pad that elevates the bar too high, it will shift the leverage points and make the squat harder, creating a longer lever at the torso.

Also, regarding the bar feeling like its going to fall, just tilt the elbows up backwards a little, that will take care of it.  If none of this helps try coating the bar with vagisil, that works for some people who can get used to the feeling of having a 45 lb bar on their back.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2011, 12:34:23 am by LanceSTS »
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PointerRyan

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Re: placement of bar on squats
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2011, 01:06:12 am »
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well i tried putting the bar lower yesterday,. and im not sure if it was resting on my traps, or was my arms just pushing the barbell against my back so it wont fall.

ANyways, i cant find the video of mark rippetoe. Is it on youtube?

aiir

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Re: placement of bar on squats
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2011, 01:09:50 am »
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 Im not going to read those articles man, but bar placement is really easy, for the high bar squat find a place between the middle and lower part of the traps and it will be much more comfortable.  For the low bar squat the bar goes across the rear delts, mark rippetoe has several youtube videos on how to attain this position.  Play around with your grip until you find a comfortable one, I would imagine at your size going closer would fit you better and allow you to stay tighter with more cushion to put the bar on.  If its still bothers you too badly then wrap a towel around the bar or use a small bar pad, just dont get a pad that elevates the bar too high, it will shift the leverage points and make the squat harder, creating a longer lever at the torso.

Also, regarding the bar feeling like its going to fall, just tilt the elbows up backwards a little, that will take care of it.  If none of this helps try coating the bar with vagisil, that works for some people who can get used to the feeling of having a 45 lb bar on their back.
hahaha 
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gukl

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Re: placement of bar on squats
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2011, 02:28:28 pm »
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slightly off topic, whats the deal with thumbs?

rippetoe recommends a thumbless grip, i did this for maybe a year...recently switched to a grip using my thumb and i believe my squat form improved...but rippetoe says this will cause problems at heavier weights? i always bend my wrists backwards using a thumbless grip...long arms at fault?

LanceSTS

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Re: placement of bar on squats
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2011, 02:41:47 pm »
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slightly off topic, whats the deal with thumbs?

rippetoe recommends a thumbless grip, i did this for maybe a year...recently switched to a grip using my thumb and i believe my squat form improved...but rippetoe says this will cause problems at heavier weights? i always bend my wrists backwards using a thumbless grip...long arms at fault?

 Rippetoe recomends that grip for his style of squat, elbows tilted up and hands pressing down into the bar, and wrists straight.  There are many world record holders in the squat who squat with a full grip (thumbs around bar), its basically whatever feels the most comfortable to you personally.  The main thing to watch out for is holding the weight of the bar in your hands, that can cause shoulder issues down the line, just make sure whatever grip you use allows you to let the bar sink into the traps/rear delts, and takes the brunt of the load out of the hands.
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Raptor

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Re: placement of bar on squats
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2011, 02:51:07 pm »
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From Starting Strength:

Quote
The thumb should be placed on top of the bar, so that the wrist can be held in a straight line with the forearm.

LanceSTS

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Re: placement of bar on squats
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2011, 09:48:52 pm »
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From Starting Strength:

Quote
The thumb should be placed on top of the bar, so that the wrist can be held in a straight line with the forearm.


Are you asking a question or what? I realize thats his reasoning for the thumb on top grip and said that already in the post above. if you think that starting strength is the end all "rule book" for how to perform the basic lifts youre badly misinformed.

Here is one example of an elite squatter using a full grip, low bar position.....

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orO4tFEkr6g" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orO4tFEkr6g</a>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orO4tFEkr6g

Here is several others...

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgjaFBVAuQ4" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgjaFBVAuQ4</a>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgjaFBVAuQ4

I could do this all day but the point is still the same, do what feels most comfortable to you.
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Raptor

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Re: placement of bar on squats
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2011, 03:44:29 am »
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Nah, I was just quoting the reasoning of Mark in his book.

PointerRyan

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Re: placement of bar on squats
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2011, 03:53:07 am »
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Now i dont even know what grip should I use.

Does your traps come out mroe if you tilt your elbows up?

And when those lifters use a full grip, their wrists arent straight. What if we did like rippetoe's way, only we use a full grip and not thumbless grip? Is that possible?


LanceSTS

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Re: placement of bar on squats
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2011, 04:14:45 am »
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Now i dont even know what grip should I use.

Use one that feels comfortable to you, its easy to figure out once youve tried it both ways.

Quote
Does your traps come out mroe if you tilt your elbows up?

If youre using the low bar position it raises the back of the shoulders to create a better shelf, if youre using a high bar position its not necessary but some find it more secure.

Quote
And when those lifters use a full grip, their wrists arent straight. What if we did like rippetoe's way, only we use a full grip and not thumbless grip? Is that possible?

Are peoples wrists straight when they front squat? The idea that the wrist HAS to be straight is silly, its a personal preference at best.  And yes, its possible to use a full grip and keep the wrist straight, the hand will be further on top of the bar in this position.


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PointerRyan

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Re: placement of bar on squats
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2011, 04:18:24 am »
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Oh right I'll try bo;th styles enxt time i squat.

I wanan do low bar, but not sure if It is. It should be now since the bar is quite low down my back and its the furthuest i can go. Though I'm not sure If i can suppor a very heavy weight.

And thanks alot lance for clarifying.


chao