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Messages - Joe

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31
07-06-25

Run --
w/u
10 x (3' on / 1' off) [avg for reps: pace - 4:13; HR - 156; max HR - 168]
c/d

Total -- 11.54k, 1:02:37

chill like 30 mins

Lift --

1A Chin
30 x 9, 7, 5 + BW x 10

1B Dip
20 x 8, 7, 5 + BW x 5

RDL
150 x 5, 4

Zercher
120 x 4, 3

2A Wide-Grip BB Row
80 x 9, 8

2B Incline Fly
17.5 x 10, 8

3A Lateral Raise
17.5 x 14, 10, 8, 6

3B Hammer Curl
17.5 x 7, 5, 4

Notes

Running RPE was like 3-4/10. Felt like I could keep going at that pace indefinitely. First rep was 4:22 as I was feeling it out, and the rest were all 4:11-4:14 pretty much. Guess this is the difference between (a) rolling out of bed, going to the bathroom, drinking a glass of water and starting the run vs (b) getting an extra hour of sleep, having my breakfast smoothie, chilling for an hour then going when I feel ready. Plus also fitness.

Max HR of 168 shows it was very controlled, since that's like 87% max hr, so almost certainly sub LTHR. IIRC, LTHR for running is usually ~87-90% of max HR (so ~167-173 for me). However, the wizardry of intervals.icu insisted that, based on maintaining an avg of 181 for >20 mins during my 5k race, my LTHR cannot be below 177. Tbh based on feel, I think 170 is closer to reality. Ah well doesn't really matter, key is that I am pretty sure that (a) I did not overcook this workout and (b) I do not think I am generally overcooking workouts. Better to go too easy than too hard esp when you're within the ballpark.

Did 8 of the reps on the crappy cinders track in the park that LBSS may recall. Half clockwise half widdershins. The bend of the track has an adverse camber (worse on one of the bends than the other). During the clockwise reps, the right adductor expressed mild displeasure when turning with the adverse camber. Not surprising, since in general my right leg seems to get annoyed when the ground is uneven such that it is higher on the right than the left. Got genuinely 0 idea about what course of action that suggests, and it's never an issue, but I defo do find myself trying to keep right on flat or marginally lower ground when I have the option.

Lifting solid. Might reduce weight slightly on RDLs, just not getting the ROM I want post-run when tired and stiff.

ETA: May experiment with exercises (1) and (3) from this insta post:
?img_index=3

32
06-06-25

Run -- 7.91, 53:04

Notes

Not adductor issues, so yeah just a sign to warmup for more than 5 mins lol.

Will probably try to do leg lifting tmrw, i.e. same day as session, so that there's two days of easy (L+E) for legs to recover properly before next session.

33
05-06-25

Run
w/u
3 x (10' on / 90" off) [4:37, 4:30, 4:37]
c/d

9k, 48:00 total

Notes

The slightest bit of adductor funk on the right side. Was super rainy and I was running late, so I just wanted to get this done asap so first rep was begun only 6 mins into the run. I am generally a warmup sceptic, but perhaps a chilly rainy day is a time to extend rather than cut short warmups. Lesson learned.

is there a way to use back roads, even if it's significantly longer? the few times i've run-commuted, i can take a slightly longer route that ends up on a paved running/biking trail. much more tolerable than the most direct route.

Oh yeah I deliberately took the straightshot route just to see what the shortest possible time would be. Think the first 10 mins of the run are going to involve people dodging more or less no matter what, just in virtue of my office's location. The remainder of the run was chill, though as I said somewhat polluted. Not really any options to avoid pollution other than maybe canals/towpaths, but those tend to be jammed with cyclists at commuting times so not sure that improves anything. River possible but probably doubles the distance, and I like being home early.

34
04-06-25

AM --
1a Chin
30x9+15x8+BWx10,+7

1b Dip
30x5+15x6+BWx6+5

2a Wide-Grip BB Row
80 x 8, 6

2b Decline Deficit Pushup
BW x 16, 12

Lateral
20x13+9+6+4

PM --
Run 7.25k, 46:30

Notes

Woke up before my alarm but too late to do a meaningful run, so go that quick lifting session in.

Run-commute okay, though the first ~2k or so involved a lot of people dodging and waiting at traffic lights (though only ~90s of paused watch time total, so not too bad). Just felt _very polluted_ to be breathing heavily running along some major arterial city roads. Will keep it in the pocket to do now and then though.

35
well, once you introduce RPE and grade adjustments then i think we're not that far apart. what i'm trying to get away from is thinking about pace full stop as the main target measure for a workout. power would be better than HR, i gather, but, as you said, it's not as easily available. but pace+RPE tracks pretty closely to HR for me, i think. interesting point about magness and houston, do you remember which video that's from, or where you read it?

Yeah we probably basically agree. I definitely don't think a workout is only good if I hit my paces (and I'm certainly not going to push into red zone to hit it; I'd rather be too slow than too fast). Just a matter of what tool is used to dial in that "right intensity" feeling in the absence of something like lactacte/power.

ETA 3: there is an all-comers track meet near me the last weekend in august. hmmmmmmm...........

do it! track meets as an adult seem hard to come by

36
i was literally about to reply to the opposite effect in your journal, haha. pace is so affected by outside stuff: temperature, humidity, elevation gain, whether you're alone or with others, etc. one day's 5:15 is another day's 5:45; threshold pace on a chilly day or on the track is lower than a hot day or on a hilly route. your body's systems work together to produce pace, and i'm more and more convinced that it's a bad proxy for training load, for that reason. HR isn't ideal, either, but at least it's a measure of something important going on inside your body, rather than an output. speed/interval work could be an exception, but otherwise i'm gonna be focusing on HR.

I think a bunch of those things impact HR as well (question of priority, right, are we asking "what's my HR at this pace?" or "what's my pace at this HR?"). I think for me I'd rather pair pace (or grade/effort-adjusted pace depending on how reliable your watch is at producing that) + RPE, with HR as a secondary guide. I still like HR for easy efforts, but that's b/c it's a reliable way to make sure my easy efforts are very easy, and doing 3xsub-threshold workouts a week, they have to be or I'd be toast.

One big reason I like pace is sort of indirect. Cyclists have way more useful data available to them, and basically all of them train by power with much less priority given to HR. Now ofc power is way more reliable and objective than anything a runner can get, but (grade-adjusted) pace is closest.

Other less general factors: (1) The relative temperateness of my climate compared to yours also makes it easier for me to have this view (though iirc, Magness has made some comments about giving lower priority to HR in Houston since the summer makes it do crazy things) (2) The timing of my medication vs when I run makes a big difference, and I know that's got zilch to do with internal load.

takeaways:
  • my easy/hard split is smack on 80/20, which is good. but the easy mileage might even be a little too easy. i think it's worth starting to allow my HR to creep up just a bit on long runs, while leaving recovery runs (i.e., tuesday and thursday and sometimes saturday) very chill. anything up to 149 is in what coros describes as "aerobic endurance" zone. i probably won't push *that* hard, but more try letting HR hover around 140 instead of around 130, as i've been doing.
  • unrelated but, i need to really start forcing more consistency with strength training. i might bail on the gym membership, i'm not climbing enough to make progress anyway, and use the money saved to pick up a couple of DBs. once my wife and i move again, i'll put up the fingerboard she got me and use that for pull ups. hasn't seemed worth it in this house because we want to leave before it gets cold again.

As I said above, if you're starting to push more workouts+overall, I'd be careful about pushing up easy efforts. I'm extremely pro just buying some dumbbells + getting a pullup setup and doing home workouts, though. This is one place where I think using intervals.icu is useful, since you can see what's actually moving the needle in terms of load/fitness.

  • last but not least, i feel really good: excited about running, itching to sign up for some more races and see how fast i can get.

 :highfive: :headbang: awesome! feeling's mutual.


37
03-06-25

Run --
w/u
5 x (6' on, 1' off) [4:34, 4:26, 4:24, 4:24, 4:26]
c/d

10.35k, 54:50 total

Notes

Solid. Might finally try running home from work tmrw just to mix things up.

38
I am growing increasingly convinced that HR (esp optical) isn't that good a guide for workouts and the priority should just be pace (scaled according to some recent benchmark race). HR varies so much with stuff that doesn't rly reflect internal load.

39
02-03-25

Run -- 7.55k, 50:01

Notes

bit faster, HR Avg 132, seems more like it.

40
01-06-25

Run -- 12.37k, 12:20:46

Lift --

1A Chin
+30x9 +15x8 +BWx6, 6

1B Dip
+30x5 +15x6 +BWx6, 5

RDL
150 x 5, 3

Zercher
100 x 7, 6

2A Wide-Grip Barbell Row
80 x 8, 6

2B Deficit Decline Pushup
BW x 15, 11

Lateral Raise
20 x 12+8+6+5

Notes

Not as sore as I expected today. And pace/hr combo was solid on the run. Exactly 70% max HR, so on point for proper easy effort, and 6:30 instead of my usual 6:50.

Redcued leg lifting volume to hopefully avoid that cooked feeling from last week.

Exactly 1 minute more running that last week, but 1.7k more (and ~10% higher "load" according to intervals.icu)

Remain baffled by how I ran that 19:16 back in 2018. I can look at the training through intervals.icu and it was just way less. Like 3 or 4 days most weeks. I guess I was doing the easy runs at a harder effort. Probably some portion is explain by it being at 12:30, on an easier course and with less traffic than this last one, but still, don't think I could hit that in perfect conditions right now despite way more training under my belt (and having modern zoom fly 6 now vs zoom fly knits then). I refuse to accept age as an explanation, before anyone proffers that. Anyway, I reckon I can go sub 19 before too long if I keep training like this.

41
31-05-25

Parkrun 5k -- 20:06 [3:53, 3:58, 4:07, 4:10, 3:55] according to watch, 20:03 according to Parkrun officially.

Ran to and from the race as well (4.5, about 28 mins each), so 14k total and ~75 mins running, not bad. Will still do an easy 80 mins tomorrow probably.

Notes

Felt good. Tried my hardest not to go out too hard, and knew I was aiming for 20 or so given training and such, and felt good on the day. So hard to find that pace when you don't train it. Was 5 laps of a small park and 600+ people, so I think Ks 3+4 being slow is also partly explained by being bad at dealing with weaving through a big crowd.

Quite a funny course, you run up a like 5% grade hill for 500m, then gain back all that altitue with a 250m downhill, then flat for 250m, then repeat 5x. Makes pacing weird. (GAP/Coros effort pace both give me "3:57 pace" fwiw)

Anyway, was super fun, and really nice to do it with buddies. Turns out I over-estimated the fitness of the others so I actually was the first finisher.

Not used to racing so I think effort wise I definitely left something on the table. That'll come with practice. Everyone had fun and the others do Parkruns pretty regularly, so hopefully I'll improve the mental game with more reps with the boys.

Vindication that my training paces are on point, though, had worried the reason I was feeling cooked this week was that I'd been using too fast paces.

Max HR was 190 (from chest strap), seems plausible given it was ~195 7 years ago. Will adjust some stuff based on that (more w/r/t expectations, don't really use it for pacing).

Eta: same training pace calculator says my easy pace shd be 5:55 to 6:15...lol I just never have it in me to do that in the morning. Plus adjustment for zoom fly 6 vs easy shoe

42
30-05-25

Run -- 5.88k, 40:21

Notes

Avg HR 119 lmao. Legs just feeling dead despite what HR metrics saying. Hamstrings still kinda sore. Maybe the 8k extra steps per day from commuting are taking more of a toll than expected, b/c training load this week has ben pretty light.

43
29-05-25

Run--
w/u
2 x (11' on / 90" off) [4:33, 4:30]
c/d

Total -- 7.6k, 40:30

+ Chins and dips afterwards

Notes

Legs _still_ sore from Monday, kinda crazy. Less volume here in hopes I can actually be recovered for Saturday.

44
28-05-25

Run -- 6k, 40:18

Notes

Legs still like 7.5/10 sore, wow. Lesson learned w/r/t doing Q-L-Q + leg lifting, lmao. Will try for a session tmrw.

which running backpack did you get?

Osprey Duro 15. Love my normal Osprey bag and this one is kitted to the gills. Basically was the smallest one still big enough to fit work clothes + a light jacket in. It is basically borderline between a backpack and a vest.

45
27-05-25

Run -- 6.3k, 44 mins

Notes

Like 8/10 doms in hams, glutes, quads. Woof.

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