Author Topic: So which is it? Jump Manual, Vertfreak or Flying in Four?  (Read 17904 times)

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ARowe

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Re: So which is it? Jump Manual, Vertfreak or Flying in Four?
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2011, 03:34:46 pm »
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There is really no need to get one of those programs. Most people think that a program they buy is going to have some secret exercise or set/rep scheme that is going to give them crazy gains...... not true.

Do you know what the secret is to getting vert? Getting strong (squat) and learning to display that strength quickly (explosive exercises), that's it, there's no way around it.

The hardest part is gaining strength because it takes a while, you can't get to a 2xbw squat in 4 months unless you are very gifted.

If you are weak then just focus mainly on strength right now (full squats) and do some jumping a few times a week, don't worry about the explosive exercises yet. Also make sure you are eating enough.


Btw, I've done vjb, jump manual, and programs created by adarq. Guess which one gave me the biggest gains by far and got me past plateaus.
Stats as of October 15, 2010
age: 20
weight: ~153 lbs
height: 5'7", 5'8" with shoes
reach: 7'5.5" in shoes
svj: 30 (vertec)
rvj: 35 (vertec) ~36 (dunk)
full squat 1rm: 315 (msem) ~325 (estimate)

adarqui

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Re: So which is it? Jump Manual, Vertfreak or Flying in Four?
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2011, 08:21:58 pm »
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There is really no need to get one of those programs. Most people think that a program they buy is going to have some secret exercise or set/rep scheme that is going to give them crazy gains...... not true.

Do you know what the secret is to getting vert? Getting strong (squat) and learning to display that strength quickly (explosive exercises), that's it, there's no way around it.

The hardest part is gaining strength because it takes a while, you can't get to a 2xbw squat in 4 months unless you are very gifted.

If you are weak then just focus mainly on strength right now (full squats) and do some jumping a few times a week, don't worry about the explosive exercises yet. Also make sure you are eating enough.


Btw, I've done vjb, jump manual, and programs created by adarq. Guess which one gave me the biggest gains by far and got me past plateaus.


adarqui

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Re: So which is it? Jump Manual, Vertfreak or Flying in Four?
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2011, 08:22:45 pm »
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btw nicoodie, you're ndee on the live chat right?

peace

nicoodie

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Re: So which is it? Jump Manual, Vertfreak or Flying in Four?
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2011, 02:01:45 am »
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btw nicoodie, you're ndee on the live chat right?

peace

Gah, the god himself.

Nah, sorry. Haven't been on the live chat yet.

KokoyPinoy

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Re: So which is it? Jump Manual, Vertfreak or Flying in Four?
« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2011, 09:19:05 am »
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Read some of the reviews made by Jack Woodrup on those programs in these links:
for Jump Manual: http://www.verticaljumping.com/jump_manual.html
for vertFreak: http://www.verticaljumping.com/vert_freak.html
for Flying in Four: http://www.verticaljumping.com/flying_in_four.html

I recommend VertFreak cause I like the work-outs, I'm currnetly in week 5, but it is time consuming and hard. But I believe I'll have massive gains from this product. Flying in Four is a potential scam. VJB has lots of nice information but the work-outs are a little outdated.

so hard work and getting stronger can get outdated???

what has the world become... :uhhhfacepalm:


Quote
so hard work and getting stronger can get outdated???

I'm sorry but I didn't say something like that and I didn't mean what you stated. I mean the combination of work-outs are not that up to date and there are more effective combinations of work-outs out there. Besides, VJB was made around 2004 (?).

Doing VJB needs hard work especially the bodyweight work-out.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2011, 09:22:12 am by KokoyPinoy »
Lont term:
175klsx2
Jump Snatch 75kls x 1

Short term before Peaking.
130kls x5

DamienZ

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Re: So which is it? Jump Manual, Vertfreak or Flying in Four?
« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2011, 09:38:54 am »
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VJB juts helps you identify your weakness and then shows you how to train it in a good way -> better than any of the other programs

KokoyPinoy

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Re: So which is it? Jump Manual, Vertfreak or Flying in Four?
« Reply #21 on: January 13, 2011, 09:47:09 am »
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VJB juts helps you identify your weakness and then shows you how to train it in a good way -> better than any of the other programs

I like VJB because it has tons of good information but I read on KellyB's article that the test that involves Depth Jump to assess plyometric ability may not be so good after all. There are some people who lack the coordination to do depth jump at first so that test could not be reliable. Did you hear that there will be VJB 2.0? What do you think is in that?
Lont term:
175klsx2
Jump Snatch 75kls x 1

Short term before Peaking.
130kls x5

KokoyPinoy

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Re: So which is it? Jump Manual, Vertfreak or Flying in Four?
« Reply #22 on: January 13, 2011, 10:34:55 am »
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From what I'm getting, all the important people have something negative to say about every single product.

If Adarq had a product I'd just buy that and be done with it.

I need the most solid, updated product to buy for my coming summer regimen. Classify me as a beginner with a lot of heart.

Right now, Jump Manual is the most logical choice for me based on all the reviews I'm getting. I have yet to see any tangible results for VF, but the same goes for Jump Manual. Flying in Four I hear had some fast results.

So which will it be?

(Yeah I know, IRC w/ Adarq >>> all of these shits, but I want at least a program or book to read up on while Adarq's off walking his dog on Sundays)

(No VJB please. Let's not open a can of worms, I know it's the bomb and all, but if it would be those 3 up there, which one?)

My friend,

I have copies of all of these programs.  What I would recommend is that you ask Lance or Andrew to program your training for specifically tailored training.  This is more effective than what amounts to a static template.  If you think you are going to get some "secret" information from any of these programs you are kidding yourself.  One on one coaching will always be more valuable.  Also, if you go with jump manual or vertfreak or flying in four you will have problems that you will not experience here.  What problems you may ask?  Let me break it down for you.

Jump Manual - Recommends to leg press to start.  After spending time talking with Jacob he will switch you over to the squat, but seriously leg press sucks by itself if not coupled with squats.

Vertfreak - 8x100m sprints at the beginning of each workout.  Grammatical errors.  0 customer support.

Flying in four - Static template, Alex Maroko was somehow invovled in this as well.  Perhaps you seek to get the sweet 25" vert that Alex M. has?  Dude is touching rim like no other.

If you are going to buy one of these programs I would go with Jump Manual and stick in close contact with Jacob.  A static template, however, is probably not going to be ideal.  I promise you, that is what you will get.  You can believe me or not, but I went through this whole process.  I couldn't touch the rim when I started.  After lots of smart training I am now able to dunk.  However, hard training will not save you by itself.  I spent many months plateaued using a template.  You can either plateau out on this template based system after a couple months or you can find a way to get coaching from an expert.

Quote
Vertfreak - 8x100m sprints at the beginning of each workout.  Grammatical errors.  0 customer support.
I don't know about you but those Sprints are fun! In my experience, Adam quickly answers my queries in twitter, facebook and even in mails. Maybe you just didn't got him in the right time tha'ts why he didn't reply.
Quote
Flying in four - Static template, Alex Maroko was somehow invovled in this as well.  Perhaps you seek to get the sweet 25" vert that Alex M. has?  Dude is touching rim like no other.
Well Flying in Four is a potential scam as reviewed by Jack Woodrup. I respect Jack's reviews. I see it as unbiased, maybe except with his own product. ;D
« Last Edit: January 13, 2011, 10:43:56 am by KokoyPinoy »
Lont term:
175klsx2
Jump Snatch 75kls x 1

Short term before Peaking.
130kls x5

LBSS

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Re: So which is it? Jump Manual, Vertfreak or Flying in Four?
« Reply #23 on: January 13, 2011, 10:42:03 am »
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8x100 sprints are a TERRIBLE way to produce any kind of physiological quality that you'd want as a sprinter. Terrible.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

sunday: long very easy run 80+ mins @ 5:40+ (14+ km)
monday: strength/cross training
tuesday: easy run 60+ mins @ 5:20-5:30 (11+ km)
wednesday: fartlek (mostly easy pace with mix of strides, hills, long tempo) 45 mins (8+ km)
thursday: easy run 60+ mins @ 5:20-5:30 (11+ km), strength/cross-training
friday: rest
saturday: short tempo 6-8x500 @ sub-4:00 (7 km)

strength would be:
- hops 2x10
- box jumps or ME SVJ 2x5
- squats 3x6-8 or weighted BSS/lunges 3x10/leg
- RDL/hypers 2x10-12 or SLRDL 2x10-12/leg
- upper push myo-reps or sets to technical failure
- upper pull myo-reps or sets to technical failure
- leg raises, holds, pallof presses

KokoyPinoy

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Re: So which is it? Jump Manual, Vertfreak or Flying in Four?
« Reply #24 on: January 13, 2011, 10:45:47 am »
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8x100 sprints are a TERRIBLE way to produce any kind of physiological quality that you'd want as a sprinter. Terrible.

Well I don't know. But that 8x 100m sprint is a light hill incline about a pace above jog. Described as 70% of sprints speed. I think it's a form of recovery session. Sorry, I didn't explain it earlier.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2011, 10:54:38 am by KokoyPinoy »
Lont term:
175klsx2
Jump Snatch 75kls x 1

Short term before Peaking.
130kls x5

LBSS

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Re: So which is it? Jump Manual, Vertfreak or Flying in Four?
« Reply #25 on: January 13, 2011, 03:15:09 pm »
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8x100 sprints are a TERRIBLE way to produce any kind of physiological quality that you'd want as a sprinter. Terrible.

Well I don't know. But that 8x 100m sprint is a light hill incline about a pace above jog. Described as 70% of sprints speed. I think it's a form of recovery session. Sorry, I didn't explain it earlier.

Oh. Never mind, then.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

sunday: long very easy run 80+ mins @ 5:40+ (14+ km)
monday: strength/cross training
tuesday: easy run 60+ mins @ 5:20-5:30 (11+ km)
wednesday: fartlek (mostly easy pace with mix of strides, hills, long tempo) 45 mins (8+ km)
thursday: easy run 60+ mins @ 5:20-5:30 (11+ km), strength/cross-training
friday: rest
saturday: short tempo 6-8x500 @ sub-4:00 (7 km)

strength would be:
- hops 2x10
- box jumps or ME SVJ 2x5
- squats 3x6-8 or weighted BSS/lunges 3x10/leg
- RDL/hypers 2x10-12 or SLRDL 2x10-12/leg
- upper push myo-reps or sets to technical failure
- upper pull myo-reps or sets to technical failure
- leg raises, holds, pallof presses

Zetz

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Re: So which is it? Jump Manual, Vertfreak or Flying in Four?
« Reply #26 on: January 13, 2011, 03:32:42 pm »
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wtf dude! why do you ask for advice when you don't take it?

dont buy any of those programs, they are all just basic templates that anyone here could write for you.

you got enough of good advice in here, like:
Starting Strength plus jumping a lot before you lift.
http://www.adarq.org/forum/performance-training-blog/an-introductory-block/

dont ask more any more questions about which program you should get! :uhhhfacepalm:

All of that ^ plus ARowe's comment.

Cloud3205

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Re: So which is it? Jump Manual, Vertfreak or Flying in Four?
« Reply #27 on: January 13, 2011, 06:36:17 pm »
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8x100 sprints are a TERRIBLE way to produce any kind of physiological quality that you'd want as a sprinter. Terrible.

Well I don't know. But that 8x 100m sprint is a light hill incline about a pace above jog. Described as 70% of sprints speed. I think it's a form of recovery session. Sorry, I didn't explain it earlier.

The sprints in week 2 of intermediate explosive are 8x80m at 100%
Week 3 is 8x100m uphill with no % of speed listed.
Week 4 is 10x100m with no % of speed listed. 

I emailed Adam regarding the week 2 sprints and that email is below.  I asked for clarification about weeks 3 and on but was not given a response in terms of the sprint % that you are supposed to use.  I fail to see where it is "described as 70% of sprints speed."  This is not described in the Vertfreak template, but perhaps you received it from another source.

 Me:   3) In the "Intermediate explosive" program you have listed 8x80 uphill sprints before a workout essentially based on squatting and stiff leg deadlifts.  I see no % max listed on the uphill sprints so does that mean you should sprint at full speed?  Wouldn't sprinting 80 meters uphill 8 times at full speed wear you out before squatting?

Adam:  Anything under 100m will be at 100%, with near full recovery between sprints.  Proper recovery, and your squat should be fine. 

« Last Edit: January 13, 2011, 06:44:31 pm by Cloud3205 »

KokoyPinoy

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Re: So which is it? Jump Manual, Vertfreak or Flying in Four?
« Reply #28 on: January 14, 2011, 12:59:43 am »
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8x100 sprints are a TERRIBLE way to produce any kind of physiological quality that you'd want as a sprinter. Terrible.

Well I don't know. But that 8x 100m sprint is a light hill incline about a pace above jog. Described as 70% of sprints speed. I think it's a form of recovery session. Sorry, I didn't explain it earlier.

The sprints in week 2 of intermediate explosive are 8x80m at 100%
Week 3 is 8x100m uphill with no % of speed listed.
Week 4 is 10x100m with no % of speed listed. 

I emailed Adam regarding the week 2 sprints and that email is below.  I asked for clarification about weeks 3 and on but was not given a response in terms of the sprint % that you are supposed to use.  I fail to see where it is "described as 70% of sprints speed."  This is not described in the Vertfreak template, but perhaps you received it from another source.

 Me:   3) In the "Intermediate explosive" program you have listed 8x80 uphill sprints before a workout essentially based on squatting and stiff leg deadlifts.  I see no % max listed on the uphill sprints so does that mean you should sprint at full speed?  Wouldn't sprinting 80 meters uphill 8 times at full speed wear you out before squatting?

Adam:  Anything under 100m will be at 100%, with near full recovery between sprints.  Proper recovery, and your squat should be fine. 




Ahh, sorry for that. I'm following the beginner's program. Don't know about that. I know for 100m's, I asked Adam, it's around 70-80% of speed. But for below 100m it should be at max.
Lont term:
175klsx2
Jump Snatch 75kls x 1

Short term before Peaking.
130kls x5

Cloud3205

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Re: So which is it? Jump Manual, Vertfreak or Flying in Four?
« Reply #29 on: January 14, 2011, 02:27:54 am »
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If you look in your template, you will find that the sprints are 85% for weeks 3 and 4.  These are 6x100m sprints.  I understand if Adam told you differently, but if you follow what is written, that is what's there.