Author Topic: Dancing  (Read 11270 times)

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Raptor

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Re: Dancing
« Reply #30 on: May 20, 2011, 03:51:38 pm »
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That's all fine but that's what I'm getting at with you overthinking everything.  On a VJ and speed forum when someone says "black" they're generally not referring to Kenyan americans. I think you knew that. When the OP mentioned dancing he's not referring to professional dancers or anyone whose ever received professional dance training.  Take a group of untrained people and have them dance (or do any other physical maneuver) and you get a look at what type of people are inherently good at it and which ones aren't. Same goes with artwork or any other skill.  There are exceptions to everything but look at general tendencies.

Translation: if a guy puts a gun at your head and says "of these 100 people, choose a guy that you think dances well. If he doesn't, you die" you, whoever you are, will pick a black guy.

LBSS

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Re: Dancing
« Reply #31 on: May 20, 2011, 04:00:30 pm »
+1
That's all fine but that's what I'm getting at with you overthinking everything.  On a VJ and speed forum when someone says "black" they're generally not referring to Kenyan americans. I think you knew that. When the OP mentioned dancing he's not referring to professional dancers or anyone whose ever received professional dance training.  Take a group of untrained people and have them dance (or do any other physical maneuver) and you get a look at what type of people are inherently good at it and which ones aren't. Same goes with artwork or any other skill.  There are exceptions to everything but look at general tendencies.


i'm overthinking it because you're so dramatically underthinking it that you're actually completely wrong. why i'm still arguing with you is a mystery as you're basically ignoring what i write.

your argument -- and it's by no means unique to you, obviously; it's a pervasive stereotype -- boils down to: "i have seen these people who jump high and are fast and also they are black, as defined by me. therefore, black people are, in general, naturally able to jump high and fast, as compared to whites or other races/ethnic groups."

close analogue: "black people are incarcerated at higher rates than other ethnic groups in the US. therefore, black people are inherently likelier to commit crimes than other ethnic groups." same thing.

or another close analogue: "children of recent chinese and korean immigrants often excel in school. therefore, in general, they are naturally smarter than other ethnic groups."

also, i know what the OP meant by dancing and my point was that people who are good dancers are people who started practicing dance as little kids. not all of those people started out with ballet or got professional training, duh. some of them just always danced: they saw adults dancing at family parties, so they danced, too. then, when they got older, they didn't look like complete fuckups dancing at parties. that seems much more likely than your argument: "stereotypical nerds, as defined by me, are usually not good at dancing and tend to overthink things. therefore, less intelligent people, also as defined by me, who i declare don't overthink things as much, are better at dancing." that makes no goddamn sense.

i mean, it's entirely possible that all people with skin tone and facial features that fall into the U.S.-invented category "black" are more likely to be good leapers and runners than people whose skin tone and features fall into other parts of the spectrum. and it's entirely possible that dumb people are better dancers than smart people, as defined however you want. but i doubt it.
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dirksilver

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Re: Dancing
« Reply #32 on: May 21, 2011, 05:07:35 am »
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cum hoc ergo propter hoc logical fallacy

lamp

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Re: Dancing
« Reply #33 on: May 21, 2011, 12:36:27 pm »
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That's all fine but that's what I'm getting at with you overthinking everything.  On a VJ and speed forum when someone says "black" they're generally not referring to Kenyan americans. I think you knew that. When the OP mentioned dancing he's not referring to professional dancers or anyone whose ever received professional dance training.  Take a group of untrained people and have them dance (or do any other physical maneuver) and you get a look at what type of people are inherently good at it and which ones aren't. Same goes with artwork or any other skill.  There are exceptions to everything but look at general tendencies.



your argument -- and it's by no means unique to you, obviously; it's a pervasive stereotype -- boils down to: "i have seen these people who jump high and are fast and also they are black, as defined by me. therefore, black people are, in general, naturally able to jump high and fast, as compared to whites or other races/ethnic groups."


There have been multiple studies showing that young males of west african descent (generally what is referred to in the US as "black")  in the US tend to have lower body fat, perform slightly better on sprint and strength tests than their white counterparts etc...

Yes, there are greater variations within the groups than between them but to pretend there is no variation between them is foolish.

I don't know for the dancing--I suspect it is mostly for cultural reasons (as is the success of asian-americans in the arts/school)

Kellyb

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Re: Dancing
« Reply #34 on: May 26, 2011, 11:53:23 am »
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LBSS,

Now you're creating a strawmen. I never said blacks were better dancers and I never said dumb people were better dancers. I said people thought to be highly intelligent that think a lot generally aren't good dancers (or good athletes).  Make a list of the worlds 100 greatest thinkers and its relatively unlikely they were ever tearing it up on the dance floor at any age, with or without practice. Regardless of skin color.  The evolution of the human brain particularly with regards to front brain development does help to explain why, if you link that with movement skills.

On another note you would do well to read "Global Bell Curve" by Richard Lynn.

Quote
There have been multiple studies showing that young males of west african descent (generally what is referred to in the US as "black")  in the US tend to have lower body fat, perform slightly better on sprint and strength tests than their white counterparts etc...

And have better motor skill development at any given age. 

« Last Edit: May 26, 2011, 12:27:54 pm by Kellyb »

LBSS

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Re: Dancing
« Reply #35 on: May 26, 2011, 01:25:58 pm »
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LBSS,

Now you're creating a strawmen. I never said blacks were better dancers and I never said dumb people were better dancers. I said people thought to be highly intelligent that think a lot generally aren't good dancers (or good athletes).  And they aren't. Regardless of skin color.   The evolution of the human brain particularly with regards to front brain development does explain why if you link that with movement skills.

okay, fair enough. you never actually said that dumb(er) people were better dancers than (more) intelligent people. but that's a pretty logical next step from "more intelligent people tend to be worse dancers." i mean, if they're worse dancers, then they have to be, well, worse than somebody. because your category was "more intelligent people," then by default the compared-to category is "less intelligent people." i mean, right? is "less intelligent people" not basically the same as "dumber" people? if not, forgive my laziness earlier. i should have changed all references to "dumb" or "dumber" people to "less intelligent people," to be more in keeping with your original statement.

i never said in my responses that you'd said that black people were better dancers, but i think i get why you thought i was implying that. for the record, i was thinking of, among other people, this unbelievably nerdy guy (the dude went to st. john's college: they learn calculus by reading principia mathematica) i met at a wedding recently who was cleaning UP with the bridesmaids and other female guests because he'd started swing dancing when he was a kid and never stopped. not that he was even swing dancing at the wedding, he was just dancing. panties were flying off all around him. if i didn't already have a girlfriend to dance with my clumsy ass and then have sex with me later, i would have been envious as shit.

the point is, you're still just making the strange, possibly true (but probably not) conjecture that people who "think a lot" or who are "thought to be highly intelligent" are not as good dancers as people who "think less," as defined by yourself. and i'm telling you that whether they're "thought to be intelligent" is probably completely irrelevant to whether they're good dancers or not. to my mind, unless you can prove it in some way other than a casual reference to "the evolution of the human brain with regards to front brain development" (what does that even mean?), then you're just babbling.




also, lamp, "young males of west african descent" =/= "black people." barack obama is also referred to as black, but he's half kenyan and half white (irish). if you can link to those studies, i'd love to see them. "young males of west african descent" is at least a somewhat defined category. ffs.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

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sunday: slow run two hours
monday: strenf
tuesday: easy run one hour
wednesday: speed/hills
thursday: easy run one hour
friday: strenf/easy run
saturday: tempo

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

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TKXII

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Re: Dancing
« Reply #36 on: May 26, 2011, 01:27:04 pm »
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Intersting discussion.

Social/cultural upbringing has a lot to do with frontal lobe activation. In order to dance well, one cannot think too hard, and it is true then that intelligence would impede dancing ability, since the overactive left-brain activity would inhibit the creative spontaneous right brain activity. That is a bit simplified, but in that sense it's true, in a general population, that intelligent people may be thinking too much and therefore might fail at dancing.

On the converse, anyone can learn to quiet the brain through meditation, or intense dance practice, so after that the more intelligent people might be better dancers in their ability to think of new dance moves in their head, and visualize it. Less "intelligent" people, intelligent being a left-brained function in this context, would use other abilities like kinesthetic skills to figure out new dance moves. So another argument would be what is the best way to learn dance? Through analytical/spatial reasoning or more kinesthetic "feel" based reasoning? The latter is my hypothesis based on very little experience in dancing. In that sense, more creative but less "inteligent" people would be better dancers because of their heightened ability to "feel" with right-brained functions.

Again starting at a young age is the most important factor. The type of dancing bolt and powell are doing in the videos shared are not really very quick by any means though and they don't look like very good dancers anyway. Usain bolt did one move over and over again.

Something like cwalking takes some intelligence, and you see a lot of asians excelling in it. Lol not that all asians are smart, not trying to start something else over here
"Performance during stretch-shortening cycle exercise is influenced by the visco-elastic properties of the muscle-tendon units. During stretching of an activated muscle, mechanical energy is absorbed in the tendon structures (tendon and aponeurosis) and this energy can subsequently be re-utilized if shortening of the muscle immediately follows the stretching. According to Biscotti (2000), 72% of the elastic energy restitution action comes from tendons, 28% - from contractile elements of muscles.

http://www.verkhoshansky.com/Portals/0/Presentations/Shock%20Method%20Plyometrics.pdf

Raptor

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Re: Dancing
« Reply #37 on: May 26, 2011, 02:00:57 pm »
-1
I'm starting to think I'm one of the smartest people on the planet.

TheSituation

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Re: Dancing
« Reply #38 on: May 26, 2011, 02:30:39 pm »
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That's all fine but that's what I'm getting at with you overthinking everything.  On a VJ and speed forum when someone says "black" they're generally not referring to Kenyan americans. I think you knew that. When the OP mentioned dancing he's not referring to professional dancers or anyone whose ever received professional dance training.  Take a group of untrained people and have them dance (or do any other physical maneuver) and you get a look at what type of people are inherently good at it and which ones aren't. Same goes with artwork or any other skill.  There are exceptions to everything but look at general tendencies.


i'm overthinking it because you're so dramatically underthinking it that you're actually completely wrong. why i'm still arguing with you is a mystery as you're basically ignoring what i write.

your argument -- and it's by no means unique to you, obviously; it's a pervasive stereotype -- boils down to: "i have seen these people who jump high and are fast and also they are black, as defined by me. therefore, black people are, in general, naturally able to jump high and fast, as compared to whites or other races/ethnic groups."

close analogue: "black people are incarcerated at higher rates than other ethnic groups in the US. therefore, black people are inherently likelier to commit crimes than other ethnic groups." same thing.

or another close analogue: "children of recent chinese and korean immigrants often excel in school. therefore, in general, they are naturally smarter than other ethnic groups."

also, i know what the OP meant by dancing and my point was that people who are good dancers are people who started practicing dance as little kids. not all of those people started out with ballet or got professional training, duh. some of them just always danced: they saw adults dancing at family parties, so they danced, too. then, when they got older, they didn't look like complete fuckups dancing at parties. that seems much more likely than your argument: "stereotypical nerds, as defined by me, are usually not good at dancing and tend to overthink things. therefore, less intelligent people, also as defined by me, who i declare don't overthink things as much, are better at dancing." that makes no goddamn sense.

i mean, it's entirely possible that all people with skin tone and facial features that fall into the U.S.-invented category "black" are more likely to be good leapers and runners than people whose skin tone and features fall into other parts of the spectrum. and it's entirely possible that dumb people are better dancers than smart people, as defined however you want. but i doubt it.

Nope, because black people in general are more athletic than white people in all cultures. Black people who don't live in poverty probably have a similar crime rate to whites, but I'd have to see the studies. Chinese and Korean immigrants excel in school because they value it higher. That's a hard one to compare because you can't compare natural intelligence, but you can compare natural athleticism.


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lamp

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Re: Dancing
« Reply #39 on: May 26, 2011, 04:40:37 pm »
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most black males in the us are of west african descent...FACT

I will try to find the studies

LBSS,

Now you're creating a strawmen. I never said blacks were better dancers and I never said dumb people were better dancers. I said people thought to be highly intelligent that think a lot generally aren't good dancers (or good athletes).  And they aren't. Regardless of skin color.   The evolution of the human brain particularly with regards to front brain development does explain why if you link that with movement skills.

okay, fair enough. you never actually said that dumb(er) people were better dancers than (more) intelligent people. but that's a pretty logical next step from "more intelligent people tend to be worse dancers." i mean, if they're worse dancers, then they have to be, well, worse than somebody. because your category was "more intelligent people," then by default the compared-to category is "less intelligent people." i mean, right? is "less intelligent people" not basically the same as "dumber" people? if not, forgive my laziness earlier. i should have changed all references to "dumb" or "dumber" people to "less intelligent people," to be more in keeping with your original statement.

i never said in my responses that you'd said that black people were better dancers, but i think i get why you thought i was implying that. for the record, i was thinking of, among other people, this unbelievably nerdy guy (the dude went to st. john's college: they learn calculus by reading principia mathematica) i met at a wedding recently who was cleaning UP with the bridesmaids and other female guests because he'd started swing dancing when he was a kid and never stopped. not that he was even swing dancing at the wedding, he was just dancing. panties were flying off all around him. if i didn't already have a girlfriend to dance with my clumsy ass and then have sex with me later, i would have been envious as shit.

the point is, you're still just making the strange, possibly true (but probably not) conjecture that people who "think a lot" or who are "thought to be highly intelligent" are not as good dancers as people who "think less," as defined by yourself. and i'm telling you that whether they're "thought to be intelligent" is probably completely irrelevant to whether they're good dancers or not. to my mind, unless you can prove it in some way other than a casual reference to "the evolution of the human brain with regards to front brain development" (what does that even mean?), then you're just babbling.




also, lamp, "young males of west african descent" =/= "black people." barack obama is also referred to as black, but he's half kenyan and half white (irish). if you can link to those studies, i'd love to see them. "young males of west african descent" is at least a somewhat defined category. ffs.

lamp

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Re: Dancing
« Reply #40 on: May 26, 2011, 09:41:27 pm »
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Black people have better elasticity, hence speed & vert.


I feel blessed. I have discovered the one quality what makes black people fast. The cheetah has the same distinct quality/feature, whites don't.  It seems I'm the only guy on the planet who has discovered it.  :strong:


I actually apply the principal to my sprint training.

It torques the tendons.  :strong:  :highfive:














what do the pictures you posted have to do with your post? 

adarqui

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Re: Dancing
« Reply #41 on: May 27, 2011, 03:12:56 am »
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i went to an "all white area today" to dunk, some indoor gym, 2 black dudes there like 30 white people.. black dudes were "trying to dunk", they couldnt even touch the rim.

just felt like sharing.

pc

Raptor

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Re: Dancing
« Reply #42 on: May 27, 2011, 04:28:39 am »
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i went to an "all white area today" to dunk, some indoor gym, 2 black dudes there like 30 white people.. black dudes were "trying to dunk", they couldnt even touch the rim.

just felt like sharing.

pc


Just don't dance with those two guys.

Ryz

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Re: Dancing
« Reply #43 on: May 27, 2011, 12:01:37 pm »
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2 black dudes there like 30 white people.. black dudes were "trying to dunk", they couldnt even touch the rim.


That's why they were hanging out at the "all white" gym.

adarqui

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Re: Dancing
« Reply #44 on: May 27, 2011, 02:06:03 pm »
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2 black dudes there like 30 white people.. black dudes were "trying to dunk", they couldnt even touch the rim.


That's why they were hanging out at the "all white" gym.

lmfao yup.. i can't recall ever being in a gym like that.. usually wherever I go i'm one of only a few white people. One thing I found interesting was how smiley everyone was. For example, people were laughing during the game. After foul calls, people would smile and stuff. People would dribble down the court with a smile on their face...

Normally when I go to a court, games are pretty heated.. lots of hard fouls and occasional face-offs where people are almost going to fight but it's broken up.. The games themselves are very intense, then after the game everyone chills..

Who knows it was just one experience but, it definitely was night & day.