Author Topic: Idea for Split Training - Good or Stupid?  (Read 5753 times)

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aiir

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Idea for Split Training - Good or Stupid?
« on: May 26, 2013, 08:13:25 pm »
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Hey Lance,

Long time no see. I've been lifting and recently was thinking of a new way to do a workout routine. I used to follow the Chest/Tris, Back/Bis, Shoulders, and Legs 4 day split, but the downside is each muscle is only getting trained 1x per week. So I was thinking of a split that would hit a muscle group each day primarily, but also factor in some assistance work at the end for another muscle group.

For example, a 4-day split would look something like:
Day 1: Chest/Tris Major - Shoulders Minor
Day 2: Back/Bis Major - Legs Minor
Day 3: Plyos/Rest
Day 4: Shoulders Major - Chest/Tris Minor
Day 5: Legs Major - Back/Bis Minor
Day 6: Rest
Day 7: Plyos/Rest

The first workout would be like this:
Bench Press - 10 rep rest pause method (only 1 set)
DB Press - 4 x 6
Cable Fly - 3 x 12
Weighted Dips - 2 x 10
DB Shoulder Press - 3 sets rest paused
DB Front Raises - 3 sets rest paused

Basically I just add rest pause to the sets that are assistance work, for quicker timing as well as higher intensity overall. As for strength level, right now I'm at 140 x 10 on bench press, doing 57.5 x 5 for DB shoulder press, haven't squatted as much recently so down to about 185 x 10 on squat. Weights at 142lb, looking to hit 150-155 by end of August.

Thanks in advance, appreciate it man
« Last Edit: May 27, 2013, 12:41:24 am by StuckInTheAir »
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LanceSTS

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Re: Idea for Split Training - Good or Stupid?
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2013, 10:16:24 pm »
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  Whats up Stuckintheair! where you been man?


 What is your primary goal with this program? Need to have an idea of where you are trying to go with this, hypertrophy, strength, athleticism, vegetable domination, etc..
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aiir

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Re: Idea for Split Training - Good or Stupid?
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2013, 12:22:12 am »
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Ayy Lance! Vegetable domination sounds nice haha.

I've been busy, when the site started slowing down I started having more and more stuff with football and other work, but now that Im almost done with school, starting to have nothing to do but think about working out  ::) .

My main goal is kinda strange maybe, I partly want to look good in terms of overall build (need to gain ~10 lb this summer), and partly just can't resist the thought of walking into a room and knowing that if needed I could absolutely rip apart every damn person in that room in any form of physical exercise lol. So that's where the plyo's/speed training stuff comes in. Guess that's a combo of strength/athleticism with gains in hypertrophy kinda coming naturally?

As a sidenote, I'm off to the University of Maryland - College Park, trying to double major in Comp Sci and Kinesiology. The Kines part was all a result of guys like you and Mr. Darqui haha (not gonna mention the Vertfreak forums lol), literally made me develop a passion for this stuff, so big thanks for that. The Kines program is #2 in the nation, and Comp Sci #14 so its gonna be a good tough 4 years ahead, hopefully with lots of lifting and sports mixed in.
Log

"Everybody look at you strange, say you changed -
 Like you really work that hard, to stay the same."
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LanceSTS

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Re: Idea for Split Training - Good or Stupid?
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2013, 09:21:45 am »
+1
  Thats great man, good luck with school, keep your priorities straight and have fun.

 An  upper -lower -rest-  upper-lower-  rest-rest split is as "split" as you need to go.  When you do vertical push/vertical pull on one day, and hor push/hor pull on the other, youre hitting every muscle group twice a week anyway you do it.  If you use standing press on one day, with pull ups, and "arms" assistance, then some type of bench press on the other, with rows, and "shoulder" assistance, you can easily get everything you need in to progress, and progress optimally.  You NEED to do legs twice a week regardless if you want to progress well, squat on one and dead on the other w knee dominant exercise as assistance, or squat twice with rdl assistance after. 

Start lower with the rest paused weight so that you can progress for a longer period of time, adding weight each week.  The most important thing is that you hit the exercises you have hard and focused, not doing a shit load of exercises.  Once youve maximally stimulated a muscle group, its done, other fluff shit only makes recovery take longer.   Good luck with it, if you need more help setting it up or want to post a template off that do so and Ill help you tweak it.

Keep your protein HIGH, log it daily or you wont get nearly what you need.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2013, 09:24:13 am by LanceSTS »
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aiir

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Re: Idea for Split Training - Good or Stupid?
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2013, 12:05:32 am »
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Hm, how does this look?

Upper A:
Seated DB OHP - 3 sets RP
Controlled Lat Pull w/ Pause - 3 sets RP
Weighted Dips - 3 sets RP
EZ Bar Bicep Curls - 3 sets RP

Upper B:
Bench Press - 10 rep RP
Controlled DB Row - 3 sets RP
Upright Row - 3 sets RP
DB Lateral Raise - 3 sets RP

Lower A:
Hang Clean - 3 x 4
Squats - 45 sec RP (R.I.P. Legs lmao)
Leg Curls - 3 x 12
Lunges - 2 x 8
Calf Raises - 3 x failure

Lower B:
Hang Clean - 3 x 4
Deadlift - 3 x 8
Box Squat - 45 sec RP
Leg Curls - 3 x 12
Calf Raises - 3x failure

---
Some Notes:
- Basically saying f*ck defined sets and reps, almost all of my exercises are gonna be rest-pause again. That helped enormously before and I don't know why I stopped in the first place. Is that okay or should I change it up a lil more?

- The Upper A & B workouts are pretty basic, which I assume isn't all that bad, but if you can think of any other exercise to add to them, please tell me. Same with the Lower B.

- I used to always perform RDL's and Hang Cleans, but while in school playing football, I had to follow the coach's routine, which had us normally deadlifting and cleaning. Should I revert or go ahead as usual?

- The reason I'm not doing push press / military and instead using seated OHP is because of issues with my back overarching and hurting a little. I've tried keeping my core tight, etc, but still have had the pain occur.

- Another question that came into my mind...on exercises like Lat Pull/DB Row, I often feel like I'm somewhat cheating. At times, I'm just barely letting the bar travel under chin  (if at all) before the weight carries it up or just barely getting the DB to my chest - no control is present. I think I should lower the weight slightly and focus on controlled movements, maybe add a quick pause before the eccentric motion. Is that a good idea? I'm going to try to still keep some reflexive motion and speed in the exercise.
Log

"Everybody look at you strange, say you changed -
 Like you really work that hard, to stay the same."
                                                             - HOV

aiir

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Re: Idea for Split Training - Good or Stupid?
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2013, 12:31:59 am »
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Man I'm reading all your old Performance Blog posts Lance (Wasted Sets, Reps, Time etc), can't wait to get into alpha lifting again... right now I'm still probably top 10% of lifters in the gym in terms of focus, but still not as focused as I can be.
Log

"Everybody look at you strange, say you changed -
 Like you really work that hard, to stay the same."
                                                             - HOV

LanceSTS

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Re: Idea for Split Training - Good or Stupid?
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2013, 05:58:05 pm »
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Hm, how does this look?

Upper A:
Seated DB OHP - 3 sets RP
Controlled Lat Pull w/ Pause - 3 sets RP
Weighted Dips - 3 sets RP
EZ Bar Bicep Curls - 3 sets RP

Upper B:
Bench Press - 10 rep RP
Controlled DB Row - 3 sets RP
Upright Row - 3 sets RP
DB Lateral Raise - 3 sets RP

Lower A:
Hang Clean - 3 x 4
Squats - 45 sec RP (R.I.P. Legs lmao)
Leg Curls - 3 x 12
Lunges - 2 x 8
Calf Raises - 3 x failure

Lower B:
Hang Clean - 3 x 4
Deadlift - 3 x 8
Box Squat - 45 sec RP
Leg Curls - 3 x 12
Calf Raises - 3x failure

---
Some Notes:
- Basically saying f*ck defined sets and reps, almost all of my exercises are gonna be rest-pause again. That helped enormously before and I don't know why I stopped in the first place. Is that okay or should I change it up a lil more?

- The Upper A & B workouts are pretty basic, which I assume isn't all that bad, but if you can think of any other exercise to add to them, please tell me. Same with the Lower B.

- I used to always perform RDL's and Hang Cleans, but while in school playing football, I had to follow the coach's routine, which had us normally deadlifting and cleaning. Should I revert or go ahead as usual?

- The reason I'm not doing push press / military and instead using seated OHP is because of issues with my back overarching and hurting a little. I've tried keeping my core tight, etc, but still have had the pain occur.

- Another question that came into my mind...on exercises like Lat Pull/DB Row, I often feel like I'm somewhat cheating. At times, I'm just barely letting the bar travel under chin  (if at all) before the weight carries it up or just barely getting the DB to my chest - no control is present. I think I should lower the weight slightly and focus on controlled movements, maybe add a quick pause before the eccentric motion. Is that a good idea? I'm going to try to still keep some reflexive motion and speed in the exercise.

Rest pause is great and you know how to use it right so that should work well for you, main thing is constant progression, smash your last workout rep PR's over and over and youll always do well.

I would take out upright rows and put in rack chins or recline rows.  Use rear delt flys if you want more delt work.

deadlift or rdl is fine, deads take a little more out of you recovery wise so account for that. 

Always control the eccentric, powerful concentric.  If you cant feel the  target muscle doing the work, its probably not working optimally.
Relax.

aiir

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Re: Idea for Split Training - Good or Stupid?
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2013, 07:32:34 pm »
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Awesome, thanks a ton. So other then the Incline Row part, everything looks good as is? For the Upper A/B, should I add one more exercise to each? With rest pause, the time will go by pretty quick, and I wouldn't mind adding an exercise to each (not trying to fluff up the routine though, just more work).


And for the Recline Row...

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fP7YDtQu7Ag" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fP7YDtQu7Ag</a>

Is that a correct demonstration? How do you progress on this exercise, just add weight on your stomach/crotch? Is the seated row grip a better idea or the bent row grip?
Log

"Everybody look at you strange, say you changed -
 Like you really work that hard, to stay the same."
                                                             - HOV

LanceSTS

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Re: Idea for Split Training - Good or Stupid?
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2013, 02:13:44 pm »
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Awesome, thanks a ton. So other then the Incline Row part, everything looks good as is? For the Upper A/B, should I add one more exercise to each? With rest pause, the time will go by pretty quick, and I wouldn't mind adding an exercise to each (not trying to fluff up the routine though, just more work).


And for the Recline Row...

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fP7YDtQu7Ag" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fP7YDtQu7Ag</a>

Is that a correct demonstration? How do you progress on this exercise, just add weight on your stomach/crotch? Is the seated row grip a better idea or the bent row grip?


 Dont add exercises until youve gone at it a while.  If you add volume NOW, what are you going to do when you NEED to add volume to progress?  Yea that row is fine, you can add weight holding a plate on chest, or simply elevating feet higher.  Once you can do a 45 pound plate for 15 reps on the first set, with feet elevated, start single arm recline rows.
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LBSS

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Re: Idea for Split Training - Good or Stupid?
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2013, 03:45:22 pm »
+2



 Dont add exercises until youve gone at it a while.  If you add volume NOW, what are you going to do when you NEED to add volume to progress?  Yea that row is fine, you can add weight holding a plate on chest, or simply elevating feet higher.  Once you can do a 45 pound plate for 15 reps on the first set, with feet elevated, start single arm recline rows.

[cough]entropy[cough cough]
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

sunday: long very easy run 80+ mins @ 5:40+ (14+ km)
monday: strength/cross training
tuesday: extensive tempo (7 km) OR fartlek (mostly easy pace with mix of strides, hills, long tempo) 45 mins (8+ km)
wednesday: easy run 60+ mins @ 5:20-5:30 (11+ km)
thursday: easy run 60+ mins @ 5:20-5:30 (11+ km), strength/cross-training
friday: rest
saturday: short tempo 6-8x500 @ sub-4:00 (7 km)

strength would be:
- hops 2x10
- box jumps or ME SVJ 2x5
- squats 3x6-8 or weighted BSS/lunges 3x10/leg
- RDL/hypers 2x10-12 or SLRDL 2x10-12/leg
- upper push myo-reps or sets to technical failure
- upper pull myo-reps or sets to technical failure
- leg raises, holds, pallof presses

LanceSTS

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Re: Idea for Split Training - Good or Stupid?
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2013, 04:18:38 pm »
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yep.
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aiir

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Re: Idea for Split Training - Good or Stupid?
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2013, 08:40:07 pm »
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Did first two workouts yesterday and today....all I gotta say is that my back FELT it on the controlled Lat Pulls and:

R.I.P. LEGS R.I.P. LEGS R.I.P. LEGS R.I.P. LEGS R.I.P. LEGS R.I.P. LEGS R.I.P. LEGS R.I.P. LEGS R.I.P. LEGS R.I.P. LEGS R.I.P. LEGS R.I.P. LEGS R.I.P. LEGS R.I.P. LEGS R.I.P. LEGS R.I.P. LEGS R.I.P. LEGS R.I.P. LEGS R.I.P. LEGS R.I.P. LEGS
Log

"Everybody look at you strange, say you changed -
 Like you really work that hard, to stay the same."
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Raptor

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Re: Idea for Split Training - Good or Stupid?
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2013, 05:59:10 am »
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?

aiir

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aiir

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Re: Idea for Split Training - Good or Stupid?
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2013, 04:38:55 pm »
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 Dont add exercises until youve gone at it a while.  If you add volume NOW, what are you going to do when you NEED to add volume to progress?  Yea that row is fine, you can add weight holding a plate on chest, or simply elevating feet higher.  Once you can do a 45 pound plate for 15 reps on the first set, with feet elevated, start single arm recline rows.

[cough]entropy[cough cough]

I was trying for a while to understand how physics and disorder had to do with anything, then I read the thread. Gotcha.

Plus, after the first two workouts (especially legs)... the low rest time is enough to wreck my body lol, no need for extra.
Log

"Everybody look at you strange, say you changed -
 Like you really work that hard, to stay the same."
                                                             - HOV